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Hi to all experts out there, I have some doubts that I hope any help & advise will be valuable to me. I am helping my nephew on his gaming needs. What does it takes to built a robust gaming PC?
Is AMD or Intel PC most prefer for gaming? Apparently, AMD got heated out easily & you need some sort of water to be installed inside the system for cooling effect. Is that true? What kind of video card is recommended? My nephew is playing World of Warcraft and he is looking into building a system this weekend. Appreciate for any suggestions..

119 replies

by steffi28

I've been looking at building a new PC or maybe buying a new laptop, i play WOW very often too and i think the best graphics card thats value for money atm is the NVidia GoForce 7000 series thats what im looking at anyway, if hes looking for a good system for WOW 2g RAM is almost definitely needed 1g will suffice, but with the upcoming upgrade I think it will be better to have 2g. I dont know much more than that but ill be keeping an eye on your post cos im interested too :)

by deadly ernest

First from the official web site the requirements are

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/faq.html#sys

PC System Requirements

* OS: Windows 2000 (Service Pack 4); Windows XP (Service Pack 2)
* Processor: Intel Pentium3 800MHz or AMD Athlon 800MHz
* Memory:
o 512 MB RAM,
o 1GB RAM is recommended
* Video:
o Minimum: 32MB 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting, such as an NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or above.
o Recommended: 64MB VRAM 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability, such as an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 class card or above.
* Sound: DirectX compatible sound card

Mac System Requirements

* OS: Mac OS X 10.3.9 or newer required
* Processor:
o 933MHz G4/G5 processor,
o 1.8GHz G5/Intel or better recommended
* RAM:
o 512MB RAM,
o 1GB DDR RAM is recommended
* Video:
o NVIDIA or ATI graphics processor with 32MB VRAM,
o 64MB VRAM recommended

All Platforms

* Controls: A keyboard and mouse are required. Input devices other than a mouse and keyboard are not supported
* Connectivity:You must have an active broadband internet connection to play.
* Mouse: Multi-button mouse with scroll wheel recommended.

Note: System Requirements are subject to change.

end quote

I'd go with an Intel P4 3 ghz machine with 4 GB RAM and one of the latest 256 MB graphics cards, and a very good monitor say 19" or 21" because the graphics is the majority of the game. A good sata drive and DVD player.

Don't, I say don't, buy a Dell, HP, IBM or any name brand PC - go to a local shop that will build this for you, ask around and find one with a good rep. Make sure they use generic parts. Problem with Dell, HP, etc is upgrades and spare parts later.

Now they say W2K or Win XP. Personally I'd try using Ubuntu Linux and buy Crossover to run it on first. But if you must go Windows, then Win 2K, it has less troubles with WGA than XP.

And a good, wide, high speed Broadband Internet, the faster, the less likely you'll get killed easily.

by gsquared

Having actually played WoW on machines as specced by Ernest, I have to say they don't perform well.

Yes, they meet Blizzard's minimum, but the game-play ends up choppy.

Your connection speed is actually less important in WoW than your CPU. Blizzard put a heavy burden on the CPU and video card and has a very, very bandwidth-efficient game going. I've played on dial-up and it was a little choppy, but not as bad as with too little RAM or a low-RAM video card.

For the video card, unless you plan to turn off all the glitter and all the video options, don't go less than 128. Going below 256 Meg on the video card means you have to go with the default options. If you want the game to really look good and to have all the glitter (and, let's face it, video games are all about the glitter and glitz), go 512 on the video card.

Definitely don't go below P4/AMD Athlon on the CPU. The game will run, but it's more like the game will walk ... slowly. You won't get rear-ended by a glacier, but it can sure feel like it.

All of this is based on actual experience with World of Warcraft on about a dozen different computers.

(I built my current computer to top-of-the line specs, including 2 Gig of RAM, 3.2 GHz processor dual-core processor [violated my own advice on that one, but there are other things than games running on this machine], 512 Meg video card, SATA-2 [yes, I realize that's not the official name] HDD, etc., for about $600. Off-the-shelf, it would have cost closer to $3,000.)

by deadly ernest

aren't mine, they're Blizzard's. Look at the bottom and you'll see I said they should go for a P4 3 ghz system etc, and after posting, I thought maybe I should change that to 512 MB video card. I don't play WoW, no broadband, but most of the people I know who do, play with 128 MB or 256 MB cards.

But I agree you got to concentrate on the graphics quality and performance as that's what all the modern games are about - the visual effects.

I do wish they'd sell a variant whereby I could set up a games server on my home LAN and play it with the family. I hate playing anything over the Internet.

by teacee

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5ghz Cpu, 1.25ghz bus 4gb of Ram
upgradeable to 8gbs of ram two 250 gb hard drives Nvidia
Ultra 6800 Agp 256mb dual Dvi link video card, M-audio
Delta 1010LT soundcard 10x10 in/out running through
my Behringer Xenxy 2442FX Mixer, ( I write and Produce
music) Acer 20" widescreen LCD and WOW has never
looked better, no Lag whatsoever, with DSL and all graphic
turned on and maxed out. Has never crashed on me, my
old pc has crashed in WOW to many times than I care to
remember, if you do use a pc make sure its dual core 2

by tech for hire

I work at a company that uses 32 bit Windows XP Professional and an app that utilizes 4Gb of RAM. It does show.

by jamesrl

As far as processors, I haven't had any cooling issues with an AMD and mine has only a standard cooler. If you are building a high end system, then a Core2Duo is a better value than the high end AMDs, but it is unlikely you will need somethign of that power.

Liquid cooled systems are required if you are going to go crazy with overclocking, and frankly you don't need to do that for WoW. If you are concerned about heating issues, a good case with room for fans for both intake (on the front) and output (on the back) are helpful.

I would not suggest (sorry Ernest) anything other than Win XP, since inevitably you will find some newer games that run on XP only.

I would recommend as much RAM as you can. 1GB is a minimum for a gaming rig, and some games work better with more.

As for video cards, I've used both nVidia and ATI based cards. General impressions out there are that nVidia are faster and ATI has better image quality. With both manufacturers, it can be confusing as to which card is faster and which is a better buy. For example an ATI x1600 is not faster an X800. And to make it even more fun, there are different "flavours" of X1600 (Pro, XT) which differ from each other.

There are benchmarking sites out there which compare. Some of them use real software to test:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2381&p=4

You can google to find more.

You will have the choice of buying a motherboard with either AGP or PCI Express. I would suggest going PCI Express as that give you more options in the future should you decide to upgrade. But thats a budget thing - AGP is fine if money is tight.

When I look at the system requirements for Warcraft, they don't look very demanding, which means you should be able to run it fairly fast on budget equipment.

I shop at Tigerdirect - they have "barebones" kits that bundle components and let you add stuff in. There are other places that do this as well. Shop the specials. You can get a decent case, PSU, MB and CPU for $199 USD if you show well. To that you would add a CD ROM (or CD RW or DVD/CD RW) video card, HD, and OS.

Has he built a system before?

James

by gsquared

The problem with WoW on Core 2 Duo is that it wasn't designed for multiple CPUs, so it doesn't utilize them well.

With most dual-core CPUs, you get lower clock-speed and more cores. That's good if your software can utilize both cores correctly, but if not, you actually get worse performance than with a higher speed single-core.

Of course, if you run WoW on one CPU (set the affinity in Task Manager) and want to run other applications at the same time on the other CPU, you will get some advantage out of that. But your game performance will be less than with a single-core of higher power.

Blizzard has some data on this on their tech forums on www.worldofwarcraft.com. They've gotten over (in my experience) the game-crashes and other issues in dual-core systems, but they still aren't threading the game for multi-CPU/core systems yet, so far as I can tell.

So I say avoid Core 2 Duo if you want a good gaming machine. At least for now. (And, yes, I've played on single-core and dual-core, built several gaming machines, etc., and done a lot of testing.)

by capnpauly

Title really tells it all.
The performance of the Conroe is very good, even at single-threaded apps.
There are benches all over the place that shows that C2D besting A64 in most gaming situations, WOW being one of them.

And believe it or not, I'm an AMD fanboy, but I do have to admit that the C2D/Conroe is a mighty-fine product.

by gsquared

AMD has worked great for me with WoW (World of Warcraft), as has Intel. Choice of CPU is really a matter of preference right now.

I've never had to use water cooling on a CPU unless I was overclocking it, which can make a cheaper CPU run like a more expensive one, or can make a computer cook itself and die horribly, depending on how you do it. I don't recommend overclocking and haven't found it necessary in years.

One thing to keep in mind with WoW (and some other games), is they aren't built correctly for multiple CPUs/cores, so you don't get as much mileage out of a dual-core CPU as you would like. A higher clock-speed single-core will give you better performance in WoW than a lower-speed dual-core. (Blizzard, the creators of WoW, have some data on this on their forums.)

So, my recommendations are:

AMD single-core Athlon 64 with as high a clock-speed as you can afford

Motherboard that supports that CPU

2 Gig of RAM (speed/type based on your motherboard - faster is nice but not critical)

PCI-Express video card - ATI and NVidea are about the same, so get whichever - with as much RAM as you can afford (512 is great)

SATA-2 Hard Drive, size doesn't matter much for a gaming machine, but make sure it's not too small (speed is more important, since it affects load-time as you move around in WoW)

That will give you a serious gaming machine with a good experience in World of Warcraft. I've built several of these and they work great.

Also, it helps if you get a good/great monitor. Bigger is nice, very low response time (if you get LCD instead of CRT) is more important.

by mark.hansford

The general aspect of all the posts to me seems good
Nice big cpu 3GHz+ good named m\board to go with it, 2 gig of ram minimum, and dont go anything less than a 6600 gt 256 from Nvidia
but have you considered raiding 2 smaller hard drives
i have 2, 37.6gig raptor SATA hard drives raided as striped this gives you extra fast access time but you do unfortunatly lose the security aspect as it cannot protect itself as far as backup is concerned but you can always add an extra drive to back up to and ghost the image to that to re-install should it go pear shaped

by deadly ernest

He also has a 120 GB IDE hard drive that he has split into 3 partitions. two are back ups of the satas, the third is where he has most of his data. Doing something like this is more of a personal preference thing for most people.

by tech.paul9

You are correct in regards the fact that most games (today) are not written to take advantage of Hyper-Threading and/or dual cores, and so there is a distinct advantage in going for a faster clock speed. However, there's no real reason not to get a dual core CPU today, and sooner or later games will require it.
If your budget allows, a gaming machine should have two (identical)graphics cards in a SLI or Crossfire configuration, and dual core CPU's add to the SLI functionality.

When building a gamer, the thing to keep in mind is frames per second.
Speed is king.

by jamesrl

Much depends on what people notice.

If you define your limits its easier to make a recommendation.

For example - eye candy. Some people notice great textures and AA/AF filtering, some people don't. Some would rather have great speed at 1024/768, others can't give up 1600x 1200.

Personally never played Warcraft, but I play a much more demanding online game - Battlefield 2.

For a time I had a 512 MB card of similar spec to 256 card I replaced, and noticed no difference at all. If I had the choice between 512 and slower graphics processor versus 256 and faster one, there is no doubt in my mind which one I would choose -the one with the better GPU.

The most important thing is the Graphics card, followed by the RAM, then the CPU with Graphics cards, the better the graphics processor, the better the card, with some caveats. Some manufacturers sell dumbed down cards - where they make a cheaper card by reducing the number of pipelines into the same processor. Not all cards are equal.

James

by bagmaster50

There are a lot of tools out that will help with the dumbed down cards. Some manufacturers turn off some of the pipes and in the case of a lot of the Nvidia cards turn off the temp sensor, which is needed for hard-core gaming. The turned off pipes can be turned back on.

Here's a great site with links to the tools and custom bios's to flash video cards with. They have bios's and tools for both Nvidia and ATI cards. Just make sure you read a lot in their forums for a lot of tips before trying to flash a video card as you can mess it up easily if you don't know the proper steps and use the correct tools along with a compatible bios.

http://www.mvktech.net/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

by jamesrl

I've never played Warcraft, but for my kind of games (first person shooters) a wireless mouse is essential.

You may also want to think about an upgraded sound card - the ones on the MB do have some overhead and are pretty basic. The SoundBlaster Live series are still pretty cheap and compatible with just about every game out there. No need to go for the more expensive SB audigy unless you are setting up your PC as a home theatre.

Personally I prefer headphones over speakers. I use inexpensive noise cancelling ones to cancel out the noise of the fans.

When I've had cooling problems they have been with the video card itself, not the CPU thats been the problem. You can spend a little or a lot on a CPU fan, but don't neglect the case fan(s) as well.

James

by gsquared

Upgraded sound card is nice in some of these games, definitely. I forgot about that. (I have a full-on 5.1 surround sound system on my computer.)

by w2ktechman

If you choose AMD, the Athlon 64FX is still AMD's recommended chip for gaming.
I have an Athlon 6400 X2, and it seems to work fine for me.
AMD chips do heat up more than Intels latest line, and they draw more power as well. I have not kept up with Intel's line for gaming though, so no recommendation there.

ATI and nVidia both have excellent video cards, but I keep hearing that nVidia's has better drivers.

2GB RAM is recommended.

by mjwx

Right now, Intel has slightly more processing power than AMD but AMD chips still use less electricity and produce less heat but the difference in all three categories is negligible.

Price is pretty much the same too (in Australia at least). Intel still hasn't implemented 64 bit processing as well as AMD yet.

Both will perform well so it depends on which brand you would prefer or which motherboard offers you the best features. Water cooling isn't nesasary unless you are over clocking which is not something for the novice to try. I've had my Athlon 3800 running in an Australian summer with no Air-conditioning (30 to 40 degrees C).

Also go with PCI-E, in Perth, Western Australia AGP cards are becoming rarities and PCI-E cards are becoming as cheap as chips (saw one for AU$50 the other day).

You should go for an expensive dual core if you can afford it if not go for a high end single core. In the near future games will be written to take advantage of two cores, for the moment the second core can take over many of the background processes whist the first core handles the game but this advantage is lost if you get a slower dual core.

Heres what I recommend,

AMD:
Athlon X2 4800 or 5000,
Asus M2N Nforce SLI motheboard
2 mid-range to high-end Nvidia video cards.
SATA2 hard drives.

Intel:
Core 2 Duo E6700 (note that the Core 2 Duo model numbers start after the AMD model numbers end, sneaky?)
A SLI motherboad that suports core 2 processors (I dont know any model numbers off the top of my head)
2 mid-range to high-end Nvidia video cards.
SATA2 hard drives.

by gsquared

Specifically for WoW, Blizzard says you need to disable SLI if you have it on your computer. I haven't tried it, but it apparently crashes horribly.

Yes, these things will be fixed in the yet-to-be-determined future. But if you want to play now, keep them in mind.

I only mention this because WoW was mentioned as the specific current game the machine was desired for.

by domiles

Do not neglect to get a power supply that will handle thee the stuff!
I am not a gamer on my PC, but I had a couple of hundred photos to scan, clean up, save and publishe in slide shows. I killed three computer before I realized that I need a stronger power supply.
I had one built to suit my needs and AMD and nVidia are the way to go!

by gsquared

Sorry about that. I did misread what you wrote.

A LAN version of WoW would certainly be interesting. Doubt it will ever happen, but it would definitely be cool.

by deadly ernest

T thought you'd missed the bit about it being a quote. As to a LAN version of WoW, I may have to wait until someone else comes up with a variant, they may be more inclined to do so.

The trouble with games designers in the USA and Europe, is that forget about people who DON'T have the best Internet connections. Get outside the big cities in Australia and the majority of people are on broadband or satellite. Plenty of hardcore gamers though, most play through dial up to their ISP who have established games servers. WoW would be ideal for that, but no, they want to tie you into their cash register.

by inkling

Blizzard is going to have to face the music on this one soon due to the number of people that are having issues with it. But apparently those using Cedega (I'm nearing complete ignorance with Linux as I haven't ever used it, but from what I gather Cedega is an emulator that must be used with WoW because it doesn't support Linux) are getting flagged as using 3rd party "hacks" and having their accounts permanently banned.

EDIT: Here's a link about it - http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41042

by iaston

Hey Ernest,

As previously quoted, Blizzard have written an extremely network efficient client for World Of Warcraft and there is no reason why you need broadband internet to play it. I've played it a number of times on my laptop via dial up and it has been fine. I have only noticed performance degradation in areas with a lot of players but since I tend to avoid these areas at the best of times it doesn't really affect me...

Ian

by acl33d

I was glad to see so many helpful posts here and really appreciate all the useful advices. My nephew does not know how to build a DIY PC and I wouldn't recommend a brand PC. If that's the case, for video card, at the moment he should not buy SLI duo card? Does motherboard have to be able to support SLI card? Is single video card enough for WOW? What about monitor, should he get CRT or LCD, what is the recommended size?

by mjwx

When you buy the components from them (in Australia so I don't know what its like in Singapore :) ) but its worth it even if you have to pay for it. It makes it so much easier to get work done under warrenty if you can walk into their store with the broken merchandise.

SLI is good for other games as it uses two cards for processing graphics, but one card needs to be disabled for WOW to work like gsquared said. You can disable SLI in the Nvidia driver control panel so it shouldn't be a problem.

CRT monitors are becoming rare these days just like AGP cards. It really doesn't matter but the differences are, CRT's have faster response times (sub millisecond) and higher resolutions but LCD's display colours better than CRT's. Either way you should get a 19" screen minimum for games.

by jamesrl

Regarding SLI/Crossfire, I don't think the value proposition is there for most apps. If you spend $500 on one card or $600 on two lower end cards, in most cases the $500 single card solution will be faster. There are benchmarks you can find on this at www.tomshardware.com.

The only advantage I see is that if you buy a midrange card in an SLI system and then want to upgrade, buying a second card is cheaper than buying that new faster single card.

With regards to monitors, in the old days CRTs were clearer brighter and faster than LCDs. With newer LCDs with sub 6ms response times, the speed issue generally goes away. CRTs are generally brighter, but some LCDs are just fine for brightness. LCDs do consume less power and many people find they have less eye strain after using them.

James

by gsquared

Don't get SLI yet if you want to play WoW as the main game right now. One video card (as long as it's a good one) will do just fine.

You might want to get a motherboard that supports SLI, because it's highly likely that Blizzard will modify the game to take advantage of it, or that he'll want to play a new game (that does support SLI) sometime soon anyway. Just don't set it up that way yet. (It's like the advice someone gave on dual-core CPUs - it may not work yet, but it probably will soon, so you might want to go that way.)

I use a 22" widescreen LCD. My wife plays WoW on a dual-monitor (both LCD), each is 17" regular (non-widescreen). (She uses the second monitor for IM and web pages and keeps WoW on the first monitor.)

Some people say use CRT for gaming, because it does respond faster. Personally, I use LCD to regain some desk space. The type of monitor is really subjective. A good CRT will take up a ton of desk space, but does have microscopically faster screen updates; a good LCD takes up less desk space and is microscopically slower. Personally, I find the LCD to be more than good enough. Size-wise, I wouldn't go below 17" for gaming. Mainly, that's a budget question.

by iogt007

If you intend to use SLI, you must use a motherboard that supports it. Comp USA has good combinations of cpu and motherbords for gamming.

by animatech

The basic rull is that you have to have a good CPU, lots of memory and a good graphic card.
I would recommend to go with core due compatible motherboard as usually it will be compatible to Pentium D and so forth.
As for CPU if you are going on 1 core then get at least 3ghz but you should look at the due core as prices are pretty good.
For graphic card the more you pay the better you get but for reasonable price you can get a good card ATI or Nvidia that will be enough for WOW you can always upgrade later.
Memory is very important so get at least 2gig
high speed (ddr2 or ddr3) memory.
Screen is great for the visual feel of the game and there are 19' - 22' size screen for great prices.
A fast HDD is important as well and you can get a great ones for good prices.
And a fast broadband is important as well.
Have a look on the net in PC magazines site and read some reviews but don't be tempted to buy the most expensive as you can always upgrade.

by mjwx

You should probably look at an Athlon X2 or Intel Core 2 Duo. Both are reasonably priced. The pentium 4 series (which the pentium D is a part of) doesn't have the same performance as an Athlon and is notorious for consuming power and producing heat.

Core 2's are have a completely different architecture and so far have performed pretty well.

acl33d, living in Singapore probably has cheaper electronics that we do in Australia.

But I agree that you don't have to get the latest and greatest especially with video cards, get a model or two down from the absolute top of the range as you pay extra for the fact its brand new on top of the hardware.

by daveats

One very important thing that has been missed here, that is memory timings and bandwidth. Go for the lowest you can find within your budget and make sure its branded i.e. kingston or Giel and others alike. If you get cheap ram with higher memory timings, you will cause a bottleneck, which will give you poor in game performance.
Other thing, AMD chips process double the amount of data in one clock cycle compared to Intel chips, this is why most PC gamers go for AMD chips.

This is the setup I would go for:
AMD Athlon 64 Extreame (if you can afford it) or one of the faster AMD's.

Branded memory with low memory timings, 2 GIG is recommended but 1GIG should be fine for WOW.

Don't go down the SLI route, its expensive and tests show that they rearly give you greater processing speeds/bandwidth than single card setups.

Get a Nforce4 socket 939 based board or a AMD chipset based mobo, with SATA raid and PCI-E for graphics. These boards have large FSB bandwidth's, important in a game rigg.

At least an 256meg videocard from either nvidia or ATI, for futures sake spend a bit hear and get a good one as new and better cards are coming out all the time.

DVD-ROM or burner, CD-RW, floppy drive to setup raid drivers when installing windows, using the F6 button at the start of installation.

2x SATA2 drives, size is down to your own preferences, 3 if you want to backup.

19" LCD with response time as low as budget will allow, at least under 12ms though.

ATX2 power supply, at least 450watts to keep power hungry game rigg going!

Remember bandwidth in gaming riggs is soo important, last thing you want is bottlenecks in you system. You could spend a lot of money on a top line GC, but if the system behind it is not up to it, you will still get slow game performance. A point that has largly been over looked here.

by capnpauly

If you must go with AMD these days (I love AMD, but the Intel Core2 Duo is better), I'd suggest AMD's new "AM2" socket, as that's what AMD now utilizing for their consumer/workstation systems.

The only real differences between 939 & AM2 are that it's 940-pin versus 939-pin and that the compatible processors have a DDR2 memory controller (instead or 'regular' DDR).

Just a suggestion for staying modern. :)

by jd255

Timings and power... hit it on the button. Being in Malaysia let me add factors; heat and humidity. Get a good case bro and liquid cooling is something I'd strongly suggest as well. I'm a CS (Counter Strike) player. Soon I'll be looking at a new build as well. The only thing I'd add to what has already been said is think towards the future. Yeah, you may put WinXP Pro SP2 on it now... but in six months you may want Vista Ultimate etc. Personally I've run with Asus and Intel for the past five/six years and this combo keeps a big fat smile on my face. The basics are important Case, PSU, MB, RAM (timings, ah that's a trade secret bro), Video, fast hard drives. One last not "surge protectors". I don't know how electrical outlets are down there; but the one I use here in my comp room wasn't grounded properly (and it took me a bit to nail it down; thought I was suffering from a bad PSU). Now, my poor baby just hobbles along with HD issues; RAM issues, etc (another reason to create a new ;) )

by capnpauly

First off, for most gaming systems nowadays, the following are good rules to follow:
-Mid - high-end CPU: Athlon 64 (AM2, consider dual-core) or Core2 Duo. Avoid Pentium, Celeron, and Sempron.
-Higher-end VGA: Radeon x1900/1950 series, GeForce 7900/7950 series. Get an apporpriate motherboard if you want to use SLI or Crossfire for higher video performance.
-A lot of newer games utilize more memory than ever (I've seen Oblivion scale upto 750MB!), and running on top of Windows, 2GB is a good choice.

Personally, if I were to build a system today I'd go with a Core2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz, 4MB cache), an Intel p965 or nForce 680i based motherboard, 2GB of higher-speed (and potentially over-clockable) RAM, and at least a GeForce 7950GT or an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro.

Also, as far as the comment about AMD running hot, that's rubbish. The current generation of Athlon64 processors don't run that hot at all, neither does the Core2 Duo. The current Pentium-based CPUs, however, are hogs and consume a lot of energy and run very warm.
No matter which way you go, I'd recoomend also getting a good separate heatsink/fan unit.

by acl33d

I have an example of my own Dell system specs. & I don't really play games but I need some advices here for building a AMD DIY system.
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual core 4200+ (512KB + 512KB L2 cache, 2.2 Ghz), 1GB DDR2 533Mhz sdram, 256MB PCIe x16 Nvidia Geforce Go 7300LE, SATA 3.0Gb/s with native command queuing. Could you explain more on memory timing? Is my RAM a high or low memory timing?
I am not well verse in hardware specs. in technical point of view and appreciate if anyone could explain is my PC specs. good enough for gaming?
Is response time for monitor 2m/s good enough for WOW? Any brand to recommend? Thanks alot.

by daveats

This is to do with how fast data travels between different 'stages' if you like, in the momory its self. The lower the timing the better. For more info do a google search for 'memory timings'. When looking at memory for gaming riggs, look for the timings often in brackets i.e. (2-3-4-5 etc) on the web sites, again the lower the better.
As WOW is not programed for dual core (as mentioned earlier), you will be better off going for a good AMD single processor.
In respect to the question though, yes you should be able too run most new games with that spec and WOW. Whever or not top settings is another question!

by jamesrl

You have more than enough processor. I run a much more demanding game on high settings with less (an AMD Athlon 3200+ single core).

1 GB DDR2 SDRAM - DDR2 is technically on a bus thats twice as fast, but its another example of not seeing the benefit unless you were bottlenecked before, and chances are you weren't. I personally would go for 2 GB.

GeForce 7300 LE - sorry not enough. Thats the bottom of the 7xxx line and I would strongly suggest moving to at least the 7600 GS - it wont be that much more. You want to check how much RAM is on the 7300 - some of them have Turbocache which means they have some RAM on the card and supplement it with RAM from your motherboard(which is slower because it has to go through the bus). You would have a much better experience with more video card and less CPU.

SATA - the only influence that HD speed has on games is in the loading times. Not a big deal, a plain old IDE would be fine.

Gaming=video card, RAM then CPU - in that order.

James

by capnpauly

But I do agree with JamesRL, go with at least a GeForce 7600-series model (or spend a little mroe and get a Radeon x1950 Pro) and I would go with 2GB.

For RAM, latency is more or less the number of clock-cycles it takes for requested data to become available. Since it's a 'waiting game' kind of thing, the lower the better. With the DDR2-based Athlon64 systems it's not as big of an influence as the older 'regular' DDR counterpart (which is even less stingy than the old AthlonXP line).
As far as what the latency would be on 533MHz sticks, it's going to depend on the brand/type.
For DDR2-800MHz I've seen 5-5-5-15 as pretty common on a lot of 1GB sticks (2GB 'kits'), and about 4-4-4-12 for 533MHz.
In both cases there are ones available with faster timings, but they are more expensive for very modest performance increases.

by gsquared

A machine like that, and a monitor with 2ms response, will do very well with WoW. If you can, boost it up to 2 Gig of RAM instead of 1, but even with 1 it will play WoW quite nicely.

by jd255

Drop the Dells and HP's in local bin. Get a shop or techie friend to build you something (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte; afore mentioned CPU's AMD/Intel personal preference; good memory Corsair, OCZ, etc; strong PSU)... other then that I'd say your specs look cool. If it is Windows (like XP etc) then with "memory", more is better.

by w2ktechman

Until AMD launches an FX version of their dual core line, the Athlon FX is AMD's recommended processor for gaming systems. The dual core chips (by their own benchmarks) are quite a bit slower.

Besides, the Dual Core architecture was designed for multitasking, not gaming.

by capnpauly

FX-62

Besides, dual-core has no real negative bearing on game performance from a comparable single-core CPU.
On top of that, the FX isn't the gaming king anymore - the Intel Core2 Extreme is.

Go to Anandtech and look over some of the benchmarks.

by tachyon

The main thing to keep in mind when building a gaming rig is that every component will take a real beating. This is a business where a lot of components are 'identical' on paper but there's a huge difference in practice.
Quality matters here. You need quality components that can handle the high workload that gaming puts on them. Cheaper components will lead to frustratingly random failures that will be difficult to diagnose.

Here's some things to consider.

- Power supply(PSU). DO NOT SKIMP HERE!! High end processors, Hard drives, and Graphics cards draw a lot of current. the PSU needs to be able to supply that current without noise or brownouts. PSU's are a lot like cheap stereo's, you'll see a lot of high watt numbers that are outright false or sneaky advertising. Stick with a proven, well reviewed brand and model. PC Power & Cooling, SPI, Antec are just a few examples to get you started. Get a 500W minimum. And modular plugs are nice, but not neccessary.

- Cooling/Case. Get a case not just for looks, but one that provides good cooling. Look at the case, it's fan locations, and imagine the airflow path and see if there will bee good flow. A properly designed system should pull air in from the bottom front of the tower, and expel it out through the upper rear, through the PSU. It should cross the CPU and Graphics card on the way.
IMO, all exterior fans _except_ the PSU fan should be pulling air into the case, and all the air should exhaust out the PSU. A good PSU will have a fan on the bottom, pulling air across the CPU and another fan at the back exhausting it out. The system should create positive air pressure in the case. This gives you more, denser cooling air into every nook and cranny of the system. Watch for places where air can leak and cause a bypass of the airflow. Missing PCI slot backplates or empty drive bays are a good example. I often cover empty drive bays with duct tape (behind the faceplate for obvious aesthetic reasons).

- Get a good motherboard with all the features you _need_ but don't worry about gimmicky features. I personally prefer and recommend Asus motherboards. They have an excellent reputation in both the commercial and gaming industries. They tend to use high quality components and have well engineered, multi-layer board designs with properly laid out ground plane layers. I know there are gamer types out there who will say nonsense like "Screw Asus, the sukitake model wazoo 5000 get's 4% better renderfish benchmark scores" or some such nonsense. Most often there are boards and brands that will trade some stability for a tiny bit of percieved speed. Todays systems are so fast that stability is much more important.

- AMD vs Intel. Whoever told you "Apparently, AMD got heated out easily & you need some sort of water to be installed inside the system for cooling effect." is misinformed and slightly confused. Many gamers _Choose_ to water cool their systems in order to overclock them and wring that few extra benchmark score points out of their systems, mostly for bragging rights to their friends. It's really not necessary. Your friend may have gotten confused because the AMD chips are more popular among gamers (with good reason) and are also easy to overclock and water cool. Personally, I prefer AMD. At this point Intel is playing catch-up in a few key areas. AMD in particular has an advantage in bus efficiency. AMD's Hypertransport bus is blazing fast and allows fast access to memory, peripheral busses, and other cores. This makes a particular difference in dual core applications with PCI-X Graphics. I would recommend a dual core Athlon-64. Now there are Intel Core2 Duo fans waiting to scream at me, and yes the C2D is a good chip, but it's newer and still has some bus performance issues that Intel tries to compensate for with large cache sizes. This is fine for number crunching, but for games where you have to move out of the cache and onto the bus evetually (ie the massive data pumped to the grapphics card) you start to see the penalty. However, it would still be a fnie choice. Also remember that the gamer market is about overkill. Your nephew would be thrilled with an Athlon 64 FX 60. This is the last of the socket 939 chips and doesn't leave the upgrade options, but on the other hand, it's probably more CPU than you need anyway. After all, unless he's going to spend thousands on dual SLI graphics cards and a wall size flat panel with ridiculous resolutions, the CPU will be waiting for other parts of the computer most of the time anyway. In the real world, 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 are about the max usable resolution that normal people can afford and moer than you need. After all, that's HDTV class megapixels. Anyway, if you wanted to save a few bucks, the FX60 and a good 939 motherboard would be less right now. Or go all out with the AM2 Athlon 64 FX-62 and an AM2 motherboard. This has all kinds of room to grow and expand, but at more cost.

- Graphics. This is as big a holy war as AMD vs Intel, and I say buy whatever quality brand PCI-X board meets your needs, and is on sale. You'll want 128MB memory at the minimum and 256 is a better choice since you can't upgrade the video RAM. ATI or nVidia. I'm a bit of an nVidia fan myself, not because their hardware is better, but because their drivers tend to be better, and more mature. And drivers can have a huge impact on GPU (graphics processor) performance. You don't need SLI(dual graphics boards working together), but you can prepare for it by getting a system and graphics board that's capable of it in case you want to upgrade later.

-RAM... Get name brand, matched pairs of RAM modules and put them in the proper slots on your mobo to work in interleaved mode (see your mobo manual). You'll need at least 1GB minimum. 2GB would be sweet. A motherbaord with 4 RAM slots instead of 2 also gives you more expansion options.

- Hard drives. These days SATA IDE is pretty much standard, and cheap. Don't bother using onboard RAID if your motherboard supports it.
I'd say get 2 drives, and use one for the OS, apps and games, the other for data (ISO Images, pictures, MP3's etc.) and backups of drive 1. 120GB+ for drive 1, and 250GB+ for drive 2. Watch for sales, big $ can be saved here. Also, I personally wouldn't own a Western Digital, no matter what kind of sale they have. They have had quality issues for the last 15 years. I'd look at Seagate, or Maxtor.

- Monitor. Remember, this is your primary interface to your computer. You'll be looking at it for hours on end. Personally, I'd go with a nice 19" Mitsubishi or Samsung CRT monitor here. LCD's are awesome, and I use one myself for my main workstation, but for gaming, they can be quite expensive to get one that is suitable, and even then you likely won't be as happy with it as a CRT, though the day of the gaming LCD is coming soon.

- KB/Mouse. Most PC games use the keyboard as the primary input device, along with the mouse so get something good here. Personally I avoid Microsoft hardware products as they contract them out to the lowest korean or chinese bidder.
A Logitech KB mouse combo would be nice.
Personally, I'd get a buckling spring, mechanical key switch keyboard. These are far superior to the crap membrane keyboards floating around out there now.
You can find more from here:
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/
Another example is here:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8396/
IMO forget the 'gaming' keyboards.
As for the mouse. I personally prefer the simple black Logitech corded optical.
However, you'll probably want to look at the Logitech laser gaming mouse.

- Software. If you want to game, keep the system lean. Don't install a lot of crap that runs at startup. Avoid trendy system tweaks and the like. Certainly I wouldn't install Microsoft Office ( at least not with indexer enabled) If he needs to type the occasional document, OpenOffice is much better about not changing system DLLs and settings without asking like MS Office does. And OpenOffice.org is more than enough office sute for 90% of users anyway, especially if you install OpenOffice Premium (Now called Oxygen office I think, google it). Also do not install security weak programs like many P2P apps and IM clients.
Uninstall outlook, install Firefox, Thunderbird, Azureus, Limewire, GTK+/Gimp, Paint.net, Picassa, 7z, and OpenOffice. This should get you started on free, quality, reasonably safe software. File hippo and google should find you these.
Use good anti-malware programs. Good <> expensive. Good means something that works, as well as something you'll use. Personally I use a combination of the following free products.
- Antivir Antivirus scanner
- SpyBot Search & Destroy
- Spyware Blaster
- CrapCleaner

Also remember to disk scan and defrag your hard drives regularly. Disk Keeper lite works well for this.

Well, that's all for now I guess.
Hope this helps,
Tachyon

by sitizn wille

I am a semi-hardcore gamer, have big LAN parties, and built around 10-15 gaming systems for myself and friends just a few things I have learned along the way.

I have found that you just have to set a limit on what you want to spend and go from there. Although, you should never skimp on a gaming system, some of that hardware seems to be more important than other. I have learned most of this the hard way :-)

I agree with the single core (games are mosly single theaded right now) higher speed processor, Being a AMD fan, I run a AMD 4000+ 130.00 from newegg.com. I heard the coreDuo is really good, but have not ever used one.

Get a good power suppply, Mobo, and graphics card. SLI is cool, but unless you run at a high res, a single card will out perform sli.

I run an full server case, AMD 4000+, 2G low lat ram, Nvidia 7950GX2 sli 1G card (run HOT 70-80C+ degrees, Asus SLI Deluxe mobo socket 939, 19 CRT 1600x1200 res. sata-2 320G, 2x200G sata 1 drives. 6 button logitech mouse, keyboard. Silverstone 750w quad SLI cert powersupply. XP Pro.
I have burned up 2 powersupplies already so get a good one.

I have never played WOW so from what I read this is on the extreme end of what you might need. We mostly play LAN games, and a big Oblivion fan.

(anyone recommend any good LAN games)

I have used ATI cards as well x1900XX, in friends rigs and they work well!

Just my opinion for what it is worth. But buy good stuff, you will be better off, and it usually easier to put togather.

Build a pc in an old battery charger box for a buddy, it looks really GOOD, but was terrible to get in there and put it togather with his cheap mobo. When we first put it togather it would crash all the time. After many calls to tech support with not much help we found that the RAM slots had been put on the board in the wrong order. 4 color coded slots... Blue, Blue, Purple, Purple. well come to find out it should have been b,p,b,p and after we changed the ram to diff color slots it worked fine, tech support said the board must have been made wrong. so much trouble for nothing!

Good luck on your DIY rig!
Cheers

by eacote55

A group of 3-14 play Call of Duty UO and have an absolute blast. The caveat is that you need to come up to speed because the twitch youngsters will beat the older reflexes almost every time.
Battlefield 1942 is great when you can't beat them, have them join you in Co-Op play. Let them drive the planes and snipe while you hold the fort or pound with the tanks and guns.
WOW Frozen Throne mods is my teenagers favorite, yet there's lots to learn about equipping and leveling up, yet I love the Tower Defense mods.
An an oldie but goodie is RoadRash. Play up to 8 in a game of motorcycling combat. Trash Talk is required!

by jd255

Very good bro... and yes 500W PSU :). I blew two 450's before realizing my Asus/Intel combo, plus HD's; Nvidia card; Creative Card; etc... were just sucking the life out of em' ;)

by binarypc

Excellent breakdown of what's needed.

- - Cases - -
The only thing I would add as a necessity is that it's worth it to get one of the Silent Running cases. For the longest time I pretty much thought that they were overpriced "splurges"... Until I got my first Antec - Sonata I on sale. The noise level in our office dropped immensely, making conference calls for work so much better and not throwing in a ton of white noise drowning out the sound effects in games. It was so nice, that when I built my wife's next computer, she insisted I get her the same case!

On the cool side (temperature) their best case is probably the Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case. It was designed to handle moving the amount of heat all those high performance parts are going to generate (and it has sweet looks to boot). However, if you don't want to go that way price wise, you won't go wrong with a Sonata II or another quiet running case in Antec's Lifestyle line.

- - Now to Opinion - -

- Motherboard & Processor - AM2 and 64x2

Do yourself or your gamer friend a favor and give them an upgrade path, so they can make their new gaming system current a year or two down the road. I tend to err on the side of AMD, I think they are leading in innovation, power management and performance (like I said, my opinion here). I would recommend going with a solid AM2 motherboard and the lowest end Athlon 64x2 processor (if price is the concern). This would provide that upgrade path that gamers care a lot about 18 to 24 months down the road.

- Video Cards -

I've gotten good performance and stable drivers from Nvidia, but for some reason, when I hooked their cards up to a TV for my kids pc, they stunk like rotten eggs. I've had so much more success OOB (Out of the Box) with hooking up ATI cards to a television set. That aside, I just tend to like the performance on the ATI cards. Most of the time they are a step ahead of Nvidia in current technology (however I think Nvidia beat them out the gate on Vista and DX10 support this time around). The other important part here, is that they were just acquired by AMD, and I expect we will see really good things from that. So that's the direction I would go in.

- Hard Drives -

Just make sure their SATA 2 - (and what the previous poster said about WD and Maxtor/Seagate - same here) k 'nuff said.

- Keyboard -

Go for the middle of the road Saitek Eclipse II. Holy Canole! Awesome tactile response to the keys, its solid and it lights up for late night gaming, coding, blogging or just plain surfing. This keyboard is sweet and doesn't add memory sucking drivers to slow your system down over time.

- Mouse -

If your gamer is looking for response time, your going to have to dump the wireless mouse. I know, giving up that freedom is hard, but it adds lag. Get them a good wired USB mouse from Razor, Logitech or Microsoft and they won't have any response time issues.

- USB headphone/Microphone -

If your gamer plays multiplayer/cooperative games of any kind, a comfortable USB headset-microphone unit that makes you think of old SBC commercials with "the Operator" are a necessity for Ventrillo or Teamspeak so they can stay in touch with their 'mates' - 'boyz' - 'clan' - 'guild' - or... ahhggg, you get the idea, just fill in their favorite 'team' replacement word. ;-)

Then, remember, performance, power, it's all about relaxing and having fun. (And maybe having 'nuff system power and speed to occassionaly pwn that annoying n00b)

Make sure you leave a little left over, so you can get them a gift card from their favorite game store to buy the next expansion or game time card or USB memory stick for Windows Vista to use as system memory. :-)

by hopperdave20009

CPU: 3 ghz minimum
RAM: 1gb min (2gb preferably)
Video Card: 256mb PCIX... any video card in the $175-$250 range should be sufficient. I recommend 256mb 7600GT by XFX....
Hard Drive: SATA2 250gb 7200rpm or get a 150gb WD Raptor for 10k rpm
PSU: 500w minimum with 25A or more on 12v rail.
One note: the video card mentioned above is SLI compatible, so you can always add a second one later for increased performance.
As far as motherboards: GigaByte makes a good board, and I like ECS also... Asus has it's fans, but I've had LOTS of problems with Asus boards; esp. the P5ND2-SLI....

by w2ktechman

When I was looking at the processors 2 months ago, AMD's site recommended the FX line because it was faster. It also stated that they had no plans to add dual cores to the FX line until mid 2007, when they release their quad-core line.

by tachyon

Apparently some people haven't the slightest understanding of the basic system architecture.
To say nonsense like "Game X is single threaded, so dual core / SMP is a waste" is just stupid.
First off, I question how you know anything about the threadedness of a given game.
But it doesn't really even matter if the game is multi-threaded or not. Any reasonably modern OS, even dinasaur kernels like Windows, supoprt SMP and will load balance the system across the available CPU's on a per process basis. For example, if you are running game X, the system will run the OS kernel on CPU 0, and the main game process on CPU 1. It doesn't take much brains to figure out that even this will give a nice performance boost.
Given that multi-core is not that much more money, and getting cheaper, and that applications are only going to be more threaded, not less. It makes sense to invest in multi-core. As someone who has used SMP systems as his main personal workstation for years, I'm well aware of the everyday performance, and productivity enhancements of multi-processing systems. And dual-core systems are even more efficient versions of dual SMP systems.

Given alll the other ridiculous, overkill options that most of the gamer types seem to think they need, I'm shocked to hear anyone say you don't need something as effective and reasonably priced as multi-core, which gives a performance imporvement to the entire system.

by gsquared

Your post claims that I am somehow stupid or ignorant for saying that WoW has problems with dual-core systems.

Please understand that you are claiming, thereby, to understand the workings of WoW better than the Blizzard developers do.

The information on the problems WoW has had with dual-core systems is provided by developers at Blizzard and they have been working on it, but are not done yet.

So, if you really want to claim to know more about their software than they do, continue to condem people who are relaying that information.

Yes, in most cases, dual-core is an advantage. That's why I use them. But please do understand that there are specific problems with it in World of Warcraft. This has been confirmed with their developers.

Go to www.worldofwarcraft.com, go into their support forums, and search for dual-core, and you will find an ongoing discussion (started over a year ago), that gives you a history of the problems, fixes and upcoming expectations with regard to that specific game and dual-core processors.

And, in the future, pay attention to what's actually said and to the source of the information as given, before spouting off and claiming (indirectly) to know more about a piece of software than its creators know.

by tachyon

I never said anything about WoW, never even said it's name. I was speaking in general terms. It's idiotic to determine your hardware purchase based on one piece of apparently very badly written piece of software. In fact, properly written code is already SMP safe. You have to break the rules to have problems with SMP. If the WoW developers are so lame that they can't code SMP safe software, then I wouldn't buy their crappy software. It's one GAME, get over it. It's not like it's software to run your pacemaker, or control nuclear warheads.

As I said, and stand by, SMP is better, performance wise in nearly every situation, even without multi-threading applications.
And that's all I said. I never replied to any post of yours, or mentioned anyone by name.

So in future YOU need to pay attention, and read carefully. Not me.

Tachyon

by johnmarks

Asus P5N32-SLI Premium WiFi NVIDIA Socket ATX 775 Motherboard / WiFi / Audio / PCI Express / Dual Gigabit LAN / S/PDIF / USB 2.0 & Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz Processor
2 GB DDR2 Ram 533/667Mhz
two 250 GB SATA2 Raid Hard Drives
16X Dual Layer DVD Burner
52X CD-RW/ DVD ROM Drive
ATI X1900 XTX 512MB Video Card
XP Pro Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

by htaylor

But check out www.velocitymicro.com. We have a good entry level gaming machine for well under $1000--our holiday edition--and we ship to Singapore. We also offer a lifetime upgrade plan and kick ass support.

IMHO, core duo is the way to go with a gaming rig, until AMD manages to amaze me again.

by rdaugherty

Case: New Aluminium ATX Midi Tower(Wave) + Musketeer Display
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme X6800 (2.933GHz, 4MiB L2 cache, LGA775)
Motherboard: ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe PCI-Express (nForce4 x16 SLI)
Memory: 2GBytes (2x 1GByte) OCZ PC6400 RAM @ 4-4-4-15 2T @ DDR2-800
Hard drive(s): Maxtor 6H500S0 500GB SATA, 16MB cache
Screen: 20.1in ViewSonic VP2030B (1600x1200) DVI
Graphics card: 2x NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX 512MiB in SLI
Optical drive #1: Sony DW-G120A 16x DVD ReWriter
Optical drive #2: Sony CRX320EE 16x DVD-ROM
Sound: Creative SoundBlster X-Fi Fatal1tyFPS
Speakers Creative T7900
Modem: None
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet from nForce4 SLI chipset. Marvell PCIe Gbe
Ports connectivity: 10x USB2.0 (2x top, 4x rear I/O), 1x FireWire400, 2x RJ45 (Gigabit), audio, optical/coaxial S/PDIF-out, PS/2, eSATA, parallel
Operating system: Windows XP MCE 2005

by daveats

In the UK that is about ?1300 worth, and a very nice PC at that. However, it is alot of money to spend if it is the first PC you have ever built. Worth considering, as theres some exspensive bits of PC there too fry! An you'll have to disable the SLI at first remember.

If you know someone how can build them, it may pay to get them to build it. I would but I live thousands of miles away!

by jd255

You like nailed the spec's I was looking at for my next build. The only exception was the HD's (I prefer WD's) and the video card (nVidia has served me well so I was going to continue riding with them). Beyond that it's on... eh how's the the P5N32-SLI... I heard some people had problems with them. I haven't had but a few petty issues with any/all of the Asus's I've put together, thanks.

by sitizn wille

We have been looking into the Battlefield 1942, it looks like it would be a good one!

We mostly play first person shooter style.. CS, Swat 4, Unreal Tournament, Joint operations, and are always looking into others.. Really like the Co-op style games.

The only bad thing, don't like the ones over the internet that has to connect to a game server and all that mess. Just plain ol' Lan games is mostly what we look for.

It is always a good time, lots of freinds, pizza, soda and of coarse as you said trash talking is required :-)

Cheers-

by semonc

I dont think right now is the best time to build a gaming rig, while prices are going down, they will plummet within the next couple months especially with the release of Vista.
The thing is no gaming PC is solely built for gaming, it is used for daily living. With that said, I'd recommend AMD 64 chip, 256 or 512 mb nvidia pci express card, dfi lan party mobo, liquid cooling for the processor and 2 gigs of ram. OCZ is one of the best.
The reason for these specific items is that they are overclockable for when, in 6 months , the pc is obsolete. Hope that helps

by sitizn wille

I know that there is not a rule of thumb for overclocking, but can you recommend any good sites on how to learn to overclock, how do you get started?
I think that will be the next thing I want to try and learn about, and see how far I can push my hardware.

I run an full server case, AMD 4000+, 2G low lat ram Kingston HyperX, Nvidia 7950GX2 sli 1G card (run HOT 70-80C+ degrees, Asus SLI Deluxe mobo socket 939, 19 CRT 1600x1200 res. sata-2 320G, 2x200G sata 1 drives. 6 button mouse, keyboard. Silverstone 750w quad SLI cert powersupply. XP Pro.

Any suggestions?
Cheers

by capnpauly

Here's a site that will explain the basics (first on an older AthlonXP system, then on an Athlon64 system):
http://sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=222790

When overclocking, there are really two main things: Front Side Bus and multiplier. Raising either will technically make your system faster, but raising the FSB will make the system as a whole faster (because the FSB links to other parts in the system), and most systems lock the mulitplier from being raised anyway.

Another thing you can do is just search Google for 'How to Overclock a CPU' or 'Overclocking Basics'.
Remember, Google is your friend. :)

by jd255

I'm not a hard core gamer so my comments may not have the "strength" as others. However, I do admire Asus. They've made it pretty easy. For one thing you can download AI (or something like that from their site) which allows you to tweak settings. They've also put it right in the BIOS for you ;)... the system I'm typing on has a P2.6 in it running at 3.1 (stable and all).

by daveats

With a system like that, why would you want too over clock? You'll only shorten the life of your components.

by d.husmann

I've played a few online games; WoW, City of Hereoes/Villians and have upgraded from AMD1.8GHz, nVidea 7500 256MB video card, 17" CRT and 1 GB RAM to the current system. Since upgrading, game play is faster and graphics are all set at the high end. Current system: AMD X2 64 4.8GHz, 3GB RAM, nVidea 7800 SLI dual digital out, 2 19" LCDs, 2 SATA 300GB hard drives, Windows 2000 Pro SP4.I'm running a Nautilus 500 water cooling system on the CPU, graphics card and chip set so the system under high load usually runs at 35 degrees Cel. I also upgraded to high speed broadband attached to my Gigabit LAN. Even though the games aren't designed (yet) for dual core, 2000 Pro does load balancing and I run other apps on 1 core and the game on the other. Total cost of the system components was about $1500.

by spawncho

I think the best place to start is the purpose... That should tell you how to design your PC. Therefore, you want your "muscle" in the following places:

1) Processor: Duo Core (I prefer Intel) is the best shot. But, they can be pricey. Yet, anything 2.8 and above (NO Celeron) will give you decent to a great experience. In the AMD World, you can match that speed and price accordingly.

NOTE: My former comrade-in-arms from the Marines works there (Marketing Engineer). I'm a loyal Intel buyer now. Plus, quad core is coming and will smash the competition...

2) Memory: Definitely, get your memory (RAM) to nothing less then 1 Gig. I run 2 gigs of memory in my Gaming Laptop and it screams! Make sure you know the max memory the Motherboard can support.

3) Graphics: This will be the term of the day... graphics, graphics, graphics! This will make or break your gaming experience. You may not, necessarily, have to get the latest ATI / NVidia board out since "yesterday". But, you want to get something that has a decent GPU and (onboard) memory for the buck. I would say to not let the memory get NO LESS THAN 256 megs. Once again, this depends on how much a gamer your nephew really is? But, you can never go wrong with a great Graphics Card.

4) Storage: You will needs a large "whiskey locker" to store all this data. The amount of storage or drives you purchase will depend on what your motherboard can support. You can get a large drive (300 Gigs and up). Or, break that down based on individual drives. This comes down to how you want to distribute / protect your drive data; e.g. RAID, seperate drives for System files, one kept seperate for Game files, etc. A tip to getting a drive will be to purchase what a place like "FRY's" has out of box; i.e. OEM drives, etc. Ensure you get warranty (s) etc. to protect your "junk".

5) Chassis: Do you want to mod the case? Get it pre-modded? Tight on Real Estate? So, get something that will fit in your environment. The last thing you want is a Swamp Cooler Sized Chassis in a broom closet-sized room with an even smaller desk. If you have a lot of beefy peripherals in your PC, ensure your chassis has adequate ventilation and fans. Unfortunately, some fans will function more quiet than others. This is a good question to ask your "knowledgable" PC Sales Person ;-)

6) Last, Monitor: This is going to be strictly up to your preference. Right now, you can get decent sized (19" - 21") LCD monitors for under $400.00. And if you are tight on funds? I would look at refurbished products. It sounds ironic. Yet, I have 20.1" Flat Panel (LCD) Viewsonic with a Full Warranty. I had it overnighted from an eBay reseller for under $350. And all my games come in great! I could be an exception to the rule. But, it will be all about your research. And places like Costco, Sam's Club, Fry's etc. all have decent pricing on the 20" and below to make room for the larger LCD TV style monitors.

It's a lot of data (general, at best). But, I'll keep it short... I would recommend starting at places like CNet.com to get decent reviews of products; i.e. graphics, processor, drives, etc. You can check Pricewatch.com to help you gauge or get an idea of pricing.

Good luck.

by chick_hazzard

AMD has came out with a new processor socket...it is called am2...amd and ati are the way to go...since amd's purchase of ati the combo of a system board manufacturer and graphics controller in one combo is the way to go since amd and ati are now one...it is like the Nforce mobo and sli graphics cards by nvidia...but to the next power...go am2 and ati graphics to fit the mobo and you will not be disappointed!!!
as far as using water to cool the mobo...as long as you do not over clock there is no need to use it...

by dombenson

I personally prefer ATI/AMD, but I would have to say at the moment that the Core2 is a better series of chips. In my opinion the E6600 is the best choice taking value into account, if you have money to burn by all means get the 6800 Extreme or QX6700 (although if you anticipate fairly regular CPU upgrades then the quad core isn't the better bet just now).
2GB+ of DDR2-800 RAM is a must, at 5-5-5-15 or better. If an 'Extreme' then 4GB DDR2-1066+ would be in order.
Graphics wise in terms of 'sensible' choices the ATI X1950 XT is good value, starting at circa 150GBP with an Intel (I can't believe I'm saying this!) Crossfire motherboard, for the more extreme then Geforce 8800 on NForce 680i.
Power supply - I like Enermax Liberty 500W for the more moderate of the specs, for the latter an Enermax Galaxy 850 (or similar).
HDD-wise I like Maxtor Maxline 300 or Western Digital 320GB RAID edition. At a higher level, a WD Raptor 74GB (boot) plus a Maxtor Maxline Pro 500 (file store) is a good combo.

by deadly ernest

Apart from the WoW requirements list on its box saying you need a broadband connection, the hardcore WoW gamers around here say you're wasting your time if you don't have broadband for it. Many cite a better game with a larger broadband connection.

Mind you they were talking 512/1GB as against 64/128 ADSL service. Dial up is a 56 kbps modem, with usual actual service of around 44 kbps - just doesn't do it for these guys. Mind you when they play there's heaps of them on the server. If I could get a licence to set up a local battlenet server for WoW I'd have about 10,000 clients from the local high schools alone. That and Oblivion are the two biggies around here.

I don't play WoW myself, my dial up is usually around the 36 kbps mark or lower. One guy tried it from here, couldn't even log onto the server - timed out.

by authemis

I built the system i'm using now 4 years ago and i'm yet to find a game it can't play well

OS:windows 2000 sp4
PROCESSOR: 1)pentium 4 xeon processor @2.4ghz
2)pentium 4 xeon processor @2.4ghz
MB: Asus PCDL-Duluxe
RAM: 4 gigs pc2700
Video: ATI Radeon 9100 64mb ram
Sound: Soundblaster Live!
Hard drives: 1) Sata Maxtor Diamondmax 180gb
2) Sata Maxtor Diamondmax 100gb
3) Ata Maxtor Diamondmax 100gb
CD: 1)Plextor 48x/24x/48x CD-RW
2)Lite-on 16x/52x/36x/52x DVD,CD-RW
3)Lite-on 16x/8x/12x/48x/32x/52x DVD-RW
Veiwsonic VG900b LCD monitor

This is including the upgrades i have added over time. WHen i built it 4 years ago it almost cost me 9k. the prices on these items have dropped considerably since. SInce this is a dual processor system you will have to have an os that will support it. With a little tweaking and burning in i've yet to find a better system to replace it with.

by itgl72

How can you not have trouble with new games with an ATI Radeon 9100 64mb ram video card?

by authemis

I have no troubles. i've heard that this before, but i don't have any issues. Graphics are smooth.

by thetech

It depends on the amount of cash you want to spend. Just six months ago I built my dream machine for $2,300.00 here are the specs for my new PC.

Mother Board DFI LANPARTY UT NF4 SLI-DR Expert

Video card BFG 7900 GTX OC 512 MB lifetime warranty x2

Ram DDR 400 1 GB Kingston

CPU AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2MB Cache 2000MHz FSB

DVD Burner Plextor PX-760A DVD?R/RW

Hard Drive Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 300GB 7200 16MB Serial ATA-300

Sound Card Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic PCI

OS Windows XP Pro 64 Bit.

by binarypc

I guess, having owned a couple cards with 256MB of video Ram and seeing the huge performance benefit - I'm inclined to not go below that - if cash wasn't the issue - I wouldn't buy one under 512MB (but I am admittedly power hungry when it comes to a PC) ;-)

by jd255

I'm not sure if they're still considered a "leader" in the gaming world but you may want to check out Alienware. If nothing else you can see the "spec's" of what they claim to be a good gaming system (and of course the other sites which were suggested as well).

by iogt007

The most important thing is a good video card. for shader qualities you need at least a 6000 series NVidia card. The 6600LE works great and is economical. The LE means it runs cooler since it has built in heat sinks.Also use a 256MB card.Another important item is a good power supply(600 watt).DSL is also important for online gaming.

by r3d

I am only adding this so that people understand that the power supply is a bit overlooked here, IMHO.

Many have stated that you should get a 500+ Watt PS, but failed to mention where/how that power should be distributed, How noisy/quiet it should be, what about +12V rails with regards to Xfire and dual SLI, continual output, efficiency, etc... I did not read all of the replies in this complete thread and appologize if someone covered this already, and I am not about to go into all the specifics, but you should research this information before just buying any ol' 500+W PS.

Here is a link to a prtty good guide/read that has added links for just about everything stated:

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=136602

There is even a a link to a PS calculator which may be most helpful to some of you total geeks, heheh...

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/

There are a lot of other guides and info pages out there, but this one has soo many links to actual PS's and other cool software, I thought you could use this first.

Good luck!

R3D

by etienneh8y

Glad to see someone is pointing this out, I was actually about to make a similar comment until I saw your post. Especially if you are interested in OCing, a good power supply with reliable and accurate voltages is a must -- great links btw.

by maeseralf

Hi!
Before you decide, visit this page: www.airis.es
And look for their Gamer Xtreme machine. It is well configured for gamming. With WoW, you will not take full advantage of the dual core; but (whilst I recommend AMD 64 for serious computing) to run DirectX, it is slightly better the Intel core, and you'll notice it. With the model I suggest, you will be ready for the next six months in PC games. I can't assure beyond, as the industry moves so fast. The main concern now is the motherboard. Here I can't be of help, as I'm more oriented to process/engineering computing than to gamming. But I think you will no need too much slots (and better you'll get XPCI than normal PCI)
One thing you forget is Heat dissipation. Better you think in a good set of controlled fans, and preferably of the low noise type.
Regards
MaeseRalf

by nkohlman

I used to think that if you built a machine with absolute best highest end components that were available that it would last you for years to come. This was a rather silly idea. I build computers for many different types of customers at work and I need to give people HONEST opinions about what is right for them.

What you want to do is build a stable system, that is unless you enjoy tinkering and overclocking and tweaking. Primarily you want to put in your favorite game and play. In my experience this steers me in the direction of an Intel processor. Also as a note I have found that with AMD processors if the system should reboot unexpectedly it will kick you into the BIOS, and while this is not a HUGE concern for any advanced PC user, for the beginner or intermediate user it can be a little scary.

At the moment the true speed king is the Intel Dual Core system. If you are on a budget something like the Pentium D 945 gives you a very good price / performance product. If you want to spend more you can step up to a Core 2 Duo E6400 or higher and if you have no issues spending over $1000 (Canadian Dollars) then you would get the Core 2 Extreme X6800. Next you want a motherboard to host this CPU, I stick with the tried and true ASUS line of mainboards. When I am choosing a board I go for one that can grow with the customer, this means that if you choose to buy the Pentium D processor , the board also supports future generation processors so that you can upgrade fairly easily. A good reasonably priced board is the ASUS P5B or P5B Deluxe. Now we want RAM, I would go with a higher end memory, something from say Corsair, OCZ, etc. Not the budget Value RAM. You get what you pay for. There are different speed standards. DDR 400, DDR2 533, DDR2 667, DDR2 800, DDR2 1066. For my money I would go with the DDR2 800 stuff, you should get about 2GB of memory, this will ensure that the system will handle any game you throw at it, also for media applications like video editing, or other content creations tasks you will have plenty of system resources to make short work of any task. For a hard drive I tend to stay away from a manufacturer?s lower end or mainstream stuff, so for instance with Western Digital, Instead of using the WD2500JS I would go with the WD2500KS or even better yet the WD2500YS drives. My brand preferences are Seagate and Western Digital at the moment. If you have to scrimp and save and pinch pennies, do not do it on the hard drive. All your information is on it, when it fails, you will have to start from scratch. A good idea for a gamer is to buy two drives, One higher end main drive and one mainstream cheaper drive. Use an imaging tool Like Norton Ghost 10.0 to make a back up image of your main high end drive to your lower end secondary drive in order to plan for the day when the drive fails. Now a lot of people may just suggest a RAID configuration with 2 hard drives that are mirrored, however there is a small performance hit when dealing with mirroring. So if you happen to be trying to squeek every last bit of performance out of your machine you may want to avoid this.

One thing to keep in mind is that you are building a gaming machine that very likely will be made to really work, so it is in your best interests to purchase a Good case, something that is not cheap and flimsy and comes with a cheap power supply. As a general rule of thumb if you are choosing anything better than a Pentium D 820 Processor you need to have a minimum 450W power supply. Sparkle (SPI) makes a good power supply, they also manufacture power supplies for many of the name brand companies. You also need to ensure you have adequate cooling in your case.

Last I want to address video cards. I personally recommend the ATI based cards because there have been issues with NVidia based cards being Finicky with their divers. Now this is not a major issue or really a concern at all for a advanced user, but for a novice, they don?t want to have to be configuring and playing with drivers to get the best results, so simply for ease of use I go with the ATI cards. And now a matter of price and what model to get. I stick to the Asus brand of cards because they should have no problems at all working in an ASUS mainboard and I don?t put in the top of the line video card that can cost you $600 - $1000 (Canadian Dollars). It makes no sense to drop that kind of money on a card. Buy a card 1 or 2 generations old, You will get your best price for performance mix there. It makes more sense to spend $100 - $200 on a card now and then again in say 6 ? 8 months or a year, In the long run you spend less money and still enjoy a decent machine. I personally have an ASUS EAX1600PRO 512MB Card.

Hope this information helps you in your decision making.

by hrstil

I recently 'built' three gaming PC's all in the upper 600 Euro range. Building your own PC isn't too hard, as even I can do it:-)

The one I use is a MSI K8N Diamond SLi, AMD 3800, 2 Gb ram, 256Mb video, 1*250Gb SATAII (16Mb) and USB/IDE HDD's.
It will run almost any game maxed to the limit.
I really wanted to use a U320-SCSI device
(it still can't be beaten by SATA), but my budget didn't allow this 'feature'.
The best investment I recently did was ditching the 19" LCD and getting a 22" CRT.
OK, my 'workspace'is very crowded, but the graphics are really very good!

It is all about personal preferences and your budget.

My next project will be an ultra-quit PC....

by Mark W. Kaelin

As you can gather from the chatter in this thread, this is a real loaded question.

The best answer really depends on what games you will be playing. If it is just World of Warcraft, then you get away with spending a little less. If you are looking to play Crysis next year, then you'll have to spend some more money.

If I were buying a PC right now, I'd be looking at the Intel Core 2 duo - it is the best gaming chip right now. However, AMD will likely be upping the ante with a new chip before long.

For graphics I prefer nVidia cards, but ATI would be just fine too. Personally, I'd be getting the top of the line from either company, but I think you would be happy with the generation just below that too.

Good luck with the PC building --- it's fun builing a PC too.

by etienneh8y

If you are interested in any sort of end game raiding or battlegrounds -- you'll need broadband -- and not 768k DSL either. Playing in these environments with 300 ms latency or more will be incredibly frustrating and you will find yourself dead... a lot.

The guys I know who play on dial-up consistently run almost 1 second ping and often closer to 2 in raids. Basically its unplayable at that rate.

If you are just going to be doing some quests and running around killing monsters -- dial up is ok, but that is about it.

by etienneh8y

It seems that no one has has mentioned the importance of a good gaming mouse. The lowly mouse gets overlooked a lot and I can't begin to say how many amazing computers have crappy $10.00 mice attached to them.

Look for a mouse with bindable buttons and great dpi. I have been using the Razor copperhead for a while and love it. It doesn't have as many buttons as some others, but the on-the-fly sensitivity adjustment is amazing -- especially in FPS games where you can switch from super slow and accurate for sniping to super fast and quick for driving a tank with just clicking and scrolling.

Lots of other great mice out there -- find one you like, but don't settle for a cheapy.

by capnpauly

Overclocking doesn't necessarily 'Shorten' the life of the component(s); when your OC required a large amount of extra voltage is what can shorten the life of your components.

by gsquared

The original question mentioned that the current game of choice was WoW. You didn't have to mention it, it's part of the spec.

When your boss/customer gives you a specification, do you deliberately ignore it because it doesn't use perfect solutions?

As to the game being "SMP safe", that's not the problem. The problem is that most dual-core CPUs are lower power on each core than single-core CPUs for similar pricing. With WoW, a higher speed single core performs better than a lower speed dual core.

You are ignoring the original spec. And your post that I was replying to basically said anyone who doesn't recommend dual core or recommends against it is an incompetent moron. You don't have to mention names when you make broad generalizations like that, but you can certainly expect someone to be possibly insulted by it.

As to your comparisons, please get real: Nobody's PC runs a pacemaker or controls a nuclear warhead. Those operations aren't done on PCs. Things like that are done with specialized hardware, specifically designed for the task at hand.

But WoW was part of the specification of the original question. That makes it relevant. If you choose to ignore the specifications given when you recommend solutions, please, stay away from all the pacemakers and nuclear warheads. Far away. For that matter, if you choose to ignore specifications, please stay away from solution-providing completely. Flip burgers or wait tables or something.

by blarman

Did you have to use the boot.ini switch? I've had Windows 2003 servers that - without the boot.ini /3GB switch - refused to allow use of the >2GB range to an application.

I would appreciate some details on what client-side app you are running that requires 4GB of RAM (if you can share) and how you configured the client to use that much. Windows does not support Out-of-Box 2GB+ for apps.

by tech for hire

Some work with the /3GB and some without it, but that app that requires so much RAM according to our application support is SolidWorks. The app seems to work either way, but the more extensive renderings perform better with the /3GB switch enabled at startup.