Software

Ask something
Discussion Locked

Are IT people stupid or is it just a matter of no acounting skills

0 helpful
88 replies

by computercookie

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

I recently viewed a question relating to a LBP-800 printer.

lalitha@...
Job Role: IT Department Manager
Location: K.L, Malaysia
Member since: 01/07/2008

I don't know how old the model is, Canon doesn't say, however the pics supplied suggested it was a very basic laser printer (similar to LBP-600) and the fact that Canon Australia was only supplying drivers for NT/98-ME/2000 drivers meant it must be "old".

This guy had just purchased new Dell slimline towers, and a LPT > USB adaptor.

I don't have a wholesaler with this product or adaptor mentioned in their pricelist, however in my opinion the adaptor probably cost more than the printer is worth.

Why do IT people want to always try and find a fix for crap hardware instead of budgeting properly to replace obselete equipment and peripherals.

88 replies

by shellbot

"IT People" is a fairly sweeping term.
Did you mean, IT Managers, or IT Budget manager, or any other narrower term?

I take you point on board mate, probably cost more to fix than to buy a new one, however...maybe this guys boss says to check it out first..do a cost analasis or whatever..

maybe its just a spare they trying to get up and running..or maybe they just have an extremely small budget and they are attempting to do the best they can.

Maybe they just "doing thier job" Or maybe they just stupid..who knows...

by absolutely

Plus, with the constant dumbing-down of SAT's, grading standards, etc., older = better. I'm serious.

Hardware that continues to function long enough to *need* an adapter cable is preferable to shiny, new Beta-test-by-the-paying-customers garbage in the Big Box store.

Why are IT haters so stupid?

by ed woychowsky

Did you ever consider that the ink cartriges on LBP-800 could be refillable? With the cost of black ink cartriges being around $35 US each, maybe that's the reason.

by jdclyde

If the product still does the job properly, then it would be moronic to throw it away based on it being "old".

A little accounting trick for you, if you spend all the companies money, it is the same as if they never made it in the first place.

Go back and look up obsolete. The first definition : [b] 1 a: no longer in use or no longer useful

by richard.gardner1

But you're not taking into account the printing industries constant march towards obsolesence - I had to throw two perfectly good laser printers away because the toners cost more than buying equally functional replacements... ROI after 6 months.

It is sad, I agree, what a waste of plastic, metal and hard work, but we're kind of tied in.

by forum surfer

I purchased a similar adapter (under $10 on Newegg) for a printer at work. The printer was discontinued, and very old. However, due to the way our budgets work the department had a few dozen spare toner cartridges. So it made far more sense to buy a cheap part for an obsolete yet reliable printer that we had lots of supply for. Buying a new printer just for the sake of buying a new one makes no sense (or cents) in some cases. But what do I know...I'm one of those stupid IT folk.

**Edited for poor spellering, further proving the "stupid IT guy" stigmata**

by jaqui

why WASTE money even having a printer? are you stupid or something? No-one NEEDS a printer unless they are to stupid to read a document on the screen.

by jaqui

the one in that pic I sent you the url to. ]:)

that's what I like to hear scream. ]:)

one or the other, not both screaming. :p

by gsg

Sorry Jacqui, but in some cases paper is required. In my case, we send the data from the originating systems (where possible) electronically to the final repository, but it we have to take a patient chart to court, they will only accept paper. If a patient wants a copy of the chart, again, unless it's an xray, it's got to be paper. That said, we have cut our paper consumption by our nurses by about 70%. I'm ever hopeful that I'll reach that 80% goal in the next 2 years, but I won't hold my breath.

by jaqui

tablet pcs used to access charts in the facility.
[ Dr's rounds etc ]

with the courts, file a grievance against the courts for not being environmentally friendly and requiring paper copies when digital is available.

by tig2

In infrastructure, I can tell you that there are any number of reasons to retain a specific printer.

I have had to change my recommendations regarding hardware platform because of the inability to support a required printer that was considered by the industry to be obsolete but was a necessity to that particular business.

You may wish to consider that there are a variety of reasons that one may need to use a particular device.

Further, it has been my experience that few IT Managers have th ability to simply purchase new equipment on a whim.

by ed woychowsky

Several years ago I witnessed a project being cancelled due to accountants being unwilling to purchase the required hardware. They actually said, ?What do you need new desktop computers for? We just bought new ones ten years ago!?

by maniacman

applications on their PC, which will run perfectly fine on a 286 PC, but the rest of us in IT and the general user community need machines capable of running the latest desktop applications and whatever else is required to perform the job. I've visited some places where the accounting dept is still using DOS versions of applications like Peachtree, WordPerfect for DOS, and some other custom crap written in DBase or Clipper. They can have their dinosaur PCs', and I'll even donate a few to them, but the rest of us folks, especially those in IT, need machines no older than 2 years or so.

by jdclyde

8 years ago, the person that was second in charge of the accounting department was STILL on a 386 running windows 3.1.

We moved to a newer version of the Lotus [i](alleged)[/i] SmartSuite that would not load on 3.1, so she could no longer open the 123 files.

Kicking and screaming, she was FORCED to upgrade to a new PC.

If there is not a valid business reason to upgrade, you don't. This case was the most extreme I had ever seen.

I HAVE been making a bit of money going through my basement selling old parts because my bud has to support a law office that is still running Win95. Glad I didn't throw THAT old equipment out. :D

by faradhi

I work for an accounting firm. Cost of equipment has not been a problem. In fact, sometimes getting my firm to use the less expensive solution has been the problem.

We are moving towards paperless processing. We purchase laptops every 3 years and desktops every 4 - 5 years. We have dual monitors, portable scanners, portable printers and have almost completely removed floppys from our org. (only some clients still require us to keep a few USB floppys around.)

I have been impressed with the not just acceptance but the embrace of technology that my users have. I am not talking just the young folks either. We have a few that are near or semi retired. They are usually the first to approach me with some new tech to make their lives easier.

I know I am very lucky. I just wanted to point out that not ALL accountants are penny pinching tightwads. There are those that see the value and depend on technology for their day to day business.

by maniacman

It's the worst in public sector agencies because between the time they put out a bid and actually get the equipment from the contract winner, the equipment they get is 3 or more generations old and is already obsolete. Technology changes too fast to keep up with for these firms.

by forum surfer

Indeed...I've seen quite a few black and white laser printers that outlasted their human counterparts. There are more than a few HP LaserJet 6p's floating around here that have remained useful longer than alot of users/pc's.

by jdclyde

My HP laser only prints BLACK. How did you ever find one that prints WHITE as well?

You are cool! :D

by forum surfer

Does this mean the same printer is going to outlast me, as well?

~The Stupid IT Guy strikes again

by itgirli

you know, jd, if you're that interested in white ink, I'm sure I could get some for you. I also might be able to find a DVD rewinder if you're interested.
:p

by charliespencer

I've got half a dozen 4's on line. My last II and III's died in '04. We have a couple of piece of test equipment that output to Panasonic dot-matrix.

by jdclyde

We just got rid of the last wheel writer about two years ago.

our work horse out on the floors is the Epson dot matrix. inkjets can't hold up to the dusty environment.

by the scummy one

workhorses, the lot of em.

I ditched the II and III lines a few years ago. Last year we finally ate up the majority of supplies for the 4, 5, 6 and 4000 models. Although they still worked, we had some extra funding avail, so we replaced all of the printers.

well, except for the LJ5 under my desk (hidden from view).

I try to avoid inkjets for the most part. They tend to need more maintenance, and much of the maintenance is costly (often replacing the printer will save money). However, for people who need to print photo quality, nothing beats an inkjet, although some lasers are pretty darn good.

by jaqui

I still see dot matrix printers in use.

hmm.. lets see.. ribbon $1.69 paper $18.00 for 5000 sheets far cheaper to print.
and multiple copies and be done with carbonless copy paper, only $5.00 more than the single copy paper.

for those who insist on printing everything, one of these noisy beasts right in their cubicle will break the habit ]:) specially if it is the only printer they can access.

by hal 9000

Yea it's never done a single print job and it's still in the original packing but as it's years old I'll throw it away just because it's old. Sure I've never used it and it was only a Backup when I couldn't be in a position where Down Time was acceptable so now that I don't need it I'll junk it. [b]NBL[/b]

BTW have you ever been to Malaysia? I'm guessing not as your response is so far off the mark as to be downright silly not to mention rude. In some countries they need to make do with the hardware that they have and they do not have the benefit of rushing out and buying new hardware just because it's available. In this case it's even possible that Cannon is dumping Old Product on a Third World Market hence the lack of detail on Canons Web Site in AU. After all Canon AU only offers support and descriptions on what they sell not what Canon Japan actually make.

If it was never sold in AU there will be no listing for the product. Perhaps you should have tried looking at Canon International to see what they have to say before jumping the gun.

Incidentally next time you go Overseas I'll give you this warning when you hit Customs at many Third World Countries never hand over money when asked by the Customs Official because they have never Seen Australian Money. They will see this as a gift that you have willingly handed over.

Now where was that question so some others can help the person who has a real problem. Though I would think that the Adaptor being used is a USB to LPT not a LPT to USB. I don't think that the Dell have LPT Ports any more do they?

Col

by maniacman

If you're looking to start a flaming war, you have succeeded because you've just insulted the intelligence of quite a lot of people who know quite more than you and have more years of experience in this field. As an old saying goes, a rookie cop shouldn't attempt to teach a sergeant how to shoot straight.

by jdclyde

What kind of applications are you running? EVERYTHING we use will run on a PIII 500 just fine.

Email
Word processing
Spread sheets
browse internet
logging into the server to place orders and such

The only exception is our engineering doing the CAD work, and sales running the 300 meg PP presentations.

Heck, our company website runs on a Pentium Pro200 and never misses a beat. (linux of course)

by forum surfer

I know exactly what you mean. I had a spare pc I donated to my church, and proceeded to reimage 5 pc's (with Xp since they were all p4's with 512m ram) and setup a secure wireless AP...free of charge of course. The finance officer for the church called me because he couldn't get his software to load. Low and behold it only worked with Windows 3.whatever. Since it was DOS based I just setup an emulator and went about my business...after telling everyone I thought it was a very bad (and irresponsible) idea to use this type of software since there is no telling how flawed or insecure it may be. That fell on deaf ears, but since it was a church I thought it best to express my concern, sever myself from any responsibility associated with the project and call it a day without offending anyone. And of course, I'll be titheing in cash now that I know this, lol...

by jdclyde

If I am brought in as "the expert" to do a job, it will be done to an acceptable standard, or it will be done by someone else.

I explain to them that if they don't go with a quality setup, they had better know how to fix it themselves when it crashes on a regular basis in the middle of the day because I will not be their 24 hour free help desk.

by jdclyde

that the white ink will! :p

So, how old is my HP LaserJet5p, I wonder? I am NOT the first owner of it. It came back one day, and was better than my inkjet (pieces of crap) so I snagged onto it! B-)

by forum surfer

I have a 2200dn sitting on my desk...the previous staff felt the need to write "DEFFECTIVE" on it in permanent ink by what I am guessing was a former staff member. Duplexes and networks fine... And yeah, inkjets are generally wastes of money until you get into the higher costing models that use the same jets/ink as dreadfully expensive plotters.

by jdclyde

the "scrubbing bubbles" work hard, so you don't have toooooooo! [i](anyone else remember that old commercial?)[/i]

Spray it on, let it set, and wipe. I have gotten marker off before with it, as well as the yellowing that monitors get.

by forum surfer

Yeah, those commercials are a little old, JD. But I prefer to leave the "DEFFECTIVE" stamp on it...adds character!

by the scummy one

is a good one to say hte least. Just let people use it and when it gives an error, you have a built in excuse!!! Hmmm... Maybe I need to 'stamp' a few printers around here! :^0

by nicknielsen

I know where they can get the 8" floppies for that thing. The same source can also provide disk packs for a Bernoulli box! :^0

Edit: spleling, of course!

by jdclyde

that is the key. If you start talking "faster", that doesn't cross into a dollar amount that the company will save, or earn.

It is when they see the cost benefits that they will jump on-board.

by dumphrey

now days its all about Blue-Ray Disk Optical Protection, Storage and Security Stack devices. Usually if you but a bundle of 17 they will throw in a rewinder for free.
now the white ink is still running a premium as far as I know, but I am expecting a lawsuite will cripple their buisness befor they make a full market saturation.

by dumphrey

PMG you are just not paranoid enough. I recommend purchasing a copy of Catcher in the Rye, 3 or 4 rifles, 18 gallons of fuel, and 37 pounds of rice. Move to the most northern part of North Dakota for a year or so, and it will all make sense.

by jdclyde

is a thing of the past. Just think of all the things the current generations coming up will never know? :0

I am behind on the times and still have to get a rewinder for my CD's yet! :p

Happy new year girli! :x

by itgirli

to you as well.

Did you ever get that last email I sent you? I haven't heard from you in over a month, so I'm guessing that you didn't. It's in my sent folder, so I know I actually sent it. What did we ever do before technology?

by mjd420nova

Replacing or adding to assets is their job and spending that money is your job, or in this case justifing another expenditure. I replace things within a year and often relegate them to new jobs (printer server, Audio or video and even have a sepearate workstation for cameras and scanners). Older units reach the end of their usefulness at around three to four years.
warranties seldom come into play and if it fails in 90 days I can replace it free.

by the scummy one

Ok, Ok, there are rare occurences when I agree with you! Ok, I said it. Now I just gotta find when the last time I agreed with you was :^0 LOL --JK.

Dont be sad, be a stupid tech instead! See, the poster was right, we are all stupid techs. But then again, the bottom feeder of a poster doesnt even amount to stupid tech! cant even get to the wannabe tech arena... Or even up the ladder to just 'stupid'.

Flame wars though? C'mon now, this poster is not worth pissing on.

by tonythetiger

IBM Proprinters. Used because the application prints to multi-part forms. A few 4019 lasers, an HP 3 and a couple of 4s. If it ain't broke ... :)

by nicknielsen

Just replaced the last of them with Lexmark 2490s. Still have plenty of 2380s, though, and a sh!tpot full of Okidata 186s.

by gsg

I budget for lots of things, but I'm not the person who signs off on the Purchase order. And just because I budget it, and the budget gets approved doesn't mean that they will let me purchase the equipment. The CFO doesn't care that we need the new stuff, he just cares about the bottom line. Yes, it's my responsibility to try to convince him why the stuff is needed, but when he says, "I don't care", there's not much I can do. Unfortunately, we're many times in the situation of having to make do with older stuff until we can finally get that PO signed. So no, we aren't stupid, but the original title of the post is. I'd contend that we're the smartest of the bunch as we do plan ahead, can see what's coming in the future, and manage, by some miracle to cobble together a franken-printer out of spare parts to get the job done when we're not allowed to purchase the new one.

edited for spelling error

by the scummy one

Love It!

Now, how can I add this toner for an LJ6 to that LJ3 and have it work right??? Get out the welder, soldering iron, and spare metal :0

by nicknielsen

Drill into the LJ3 toner cart on the flat area just behind the exposure aperture. Funnel the toner into the bay, oscillating occasionally to spread the toner. Insert the plug and cut 1/8" above the surface.

Works until the image drum goes south. YMMV. ;)

Edit: obfuscate

by gsg

I can't take credit for the name. It came from a co-worker at the last hospital I worked at. He needed a server for some testing, and didn't have a whole one, so built his test server out of spare parts, and named it FrankenServer. A bunch of us quit that place and moved to our current employer and now add "Franken" to the front of any equipment that's made up of disparate parts.

by gsg

We saved a printer that took a header down two flights of stairs. Five years later, it's still going strong. It's held together with duct tape, and we had to loan it to another office, but that sucker has outlasted newer models.

by the scummy one

out of the scrap bin. The department said it wouldnt work, it was a pile of trash, etc.. So, I turned it on (to see how costly the repairs would be) and it demanded black toner. Hesitantly, I added a black toner. worked fine.
It is still in use by several people who dont mind that it is slow. It is used for specific things (everyday), that do not need to be grabbed the second after the print button is selected.

by dr dij

it's usually the ACCOUNTANTS who demand something gets fixed rather than replaced.

My aside rant: why shouldn't there be multiple 'computational models' that can be moved to new machines and execute 'IBM Series 1' or 'Win 98' or 'Win 2k' or ...

this should be a snap with today's virtual software but would need to be combined with dynamically programmable gate arrays (DPGAs) to simulate some older computers perhaps.

Why should software that works have to be rewritten every n# of years?

by cg it

if you can prove that fixing the thing costs more than replacing it, the bean counters will go with replacing it. That's how we get around it.

by hal 9000

I can remember one Government Department who had blown their Budget for the year in under 3 months. After a Laser Printer got moved and sent down several flights of stairs they had already stolen as much as possible from the replacement Hardware Budget and had a HP Laser Printer repaired. It cost 3 times as much as a new printer and when it was returned they had to employ someone to stand by it to shut doors again every so often, so the cost of that printer where very high.

It just depends on where the money is located as to how it gets spent. Sometimes repairs are not Budgeted for so they have the ability to repair anything while replacement is limited.

Personally if I had of been the one who was tasked with repairing the printer I would have just supplied a new one with the Specification Plates removed from the old one and invoiced it out as a repair. It would have been a better advertisement for the product.

Col

by maniacman

perhaps that's what they're lacking and should be getting instead of monetary Christmas bonuses...LOL :^0

by dumphrey

is family owned. has been in buisness since 1947, and is on its second Owner (son o the founder of course). As is the case with mnay people raised by depression era parents, all things should be fixed untill its patently obvious that they can not. Unfortunately, it still escapes many of them that fixing costs more money, not less, these days (depending...an injet printer yes, replacing a fan in a box, no.) As a result, just a month ago, I wa sable to give goodwill 3 palets of dos computer (266 mhz on the best one that booted).
As for budgeting, IT here is seen as an expense, not a means of producing revenue, right until the e-mail burps =\
Sometimes it takes catastophic failure to make management see the light of day.
An ex of mind is the IT manager for a local, prosperous law firm. ALL of their client records etc are digital. All of them on an old Novell server. For well over a month she told the powers that be that the server was failing, and asked for $4000 (keep in mind, this number represent less then 30 min worth of billable time for a senior lawyer or junior partner) to replace and upgrade the server. Denied. 7 weeks after her first e-mail about failure, the server died, catastophic hard disk failure (well, they were 8 years old). Needless to say, management blaimed her for not "doing her job". Long story short, she got the new server, but they were down for 3 days, and I guarantee that cost them more then $4000.

by gsg

It's not looking at the stuff on the back end so much as that we got hosed by our vendor on our implemention of our charting system, so our docs are still documenting on paper for the most part. We're dumping the old system (and vendor) and going with a new one, so we should be able to stop generating so much darn paper on the front end.

by jaqui

a surcharge on hard copy of lab reports to doctors that the doctors have to pay for.
make them pay for not being digital.

make it pay them to be digital by not having to pay extra for paper copies.

it's a battle, but you can get paper use down to just court required paper, screaming at them for environmental damage from paper instead of digital until they accept digital.
lets face it, publicly hammering at ANY government body for damaging the environment by requiring paper will have a huge impact.

by gsg

We typically aren't printing it out once it hits the repository. In fact, our doctors asked us to please stop printing the labs. That made my heart proud as we've been pushing that for years. We're making progress. You'll never be paperless, but you can always be "less paper".

by jaqui

and if anything screws that system I bet they are completely hooped.
is there anyone left on staff who knows how to actually install and set up the original software?
if they even have usable install media.

by maniacman

I bet it runs on a prayer and has the voodoo edition of DOS installed, capable of resurrecting itself from the dead if it should crash and burn. :^0

This discussion is closed to new replies.