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fix the basics first

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by bobgroz 1 view

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Make installs easier, make Linux compatible with more windows programs, make Linux a much better gaming platform, stop complex things like dependencies, standardize linux rpms? apt-get? source installs? get MUCH better driver support for newer devices, support TV (PVR) without all the complexities of Myth TV - Media Center KILLS Myth TV, did I say make installing software easier? Away with dependencies, it should all be automatic, all distros should give the user the options of booting from the root partition instead of forcing themselves in the MBR and disabling boot managers, make Linux much less complex i.e. runlevels, what starts, all of this should be gui driven, stop it with the complex commands, I could go on and on, we don't need a GUI we need a whole new Linux

43 replies

by nicknielsen

Okay, I'll bite. These aren't strictly accurate comparisons, of course, but since you won't hear anything good about Linux anyway, it doesn't really matter how I waste the bits, does it?.

Dependency problems/DLL Hell

No drivers for newest devices/older devices broken by OS updates

sudo/runlevels

Complex commands require CLI/Complex commands require (surprise!) CLI

I don't see much difference between Linux and Windows any more; both have their quirks and issues...and fanboys.

When was the last time you looked at [u]Windows[/u] objectively? You're so used to it all, you don't even think about half of what you're doing. Next time you install software in Windows, write down everything you do, starting with acquiring the setup/install file. Then come talk about Linux complexity.

etu

by mamies

Atleast I wasn't the only person who thinks it.

You may have said some of the drawsbacks to a linux system but I can think of just as many, if not more for Windows.

Here is one of the most important ones; Security. Linux is a lot more secure.

I may sound like I like Linux more (which is true) but basically i am trying to say, Linux has its place as well just like Windows and Mac.

Thanks,

Matthew

by bobgroz

Linux runs as an excellent server for business, but, of course, you need a trained staff to maintain it.

I certainly doesn't belong in the home. Much too complex for a home user.....

by bobgroz

and that's it. The only thing I specify is the location where I would like the software installed. Never anything more complex than that. Is that too hard for you to do? Double click a ".exe" file, point to where you want the software to go and be done? If so, maybe you should sell insurance....

by slayer_

It was easier, it didn't even ask me any questions. I downloaded it, dbl clicked it. A little progress bar showed up, then the application manager thingy did, then it closed and said it was installed. I Dbl clicked the icon on the desktop and opera launched.

Where is the complication in that?

I find the package manager more complicated, I wish that thing would go away or be vastly improved. I swear the MSKB search works better.

by nicknielsen

A repository? Did you download it? Order a CD? I said "write down everything you do, starting with acquiring the setup/install file."

No wonder you're having so much trouble with Linux...you can't follow directions.

by jck

[i]Linux runs as an excellent server for business, but, of course, you need a trained staff to maintain it.[/i]

And, people have to be trained to run Windows servers as well.

Or do you think people are born knowing Windows Server 2008?

[i]I certainly doesn't belong in the home. Much too complex for a home user.....[/i]

It's all point and click. Knowing what to click, how many times, where to navigate to get to certain displays/options/controls is part of all GUI OSes.

And as I have told you before:

I will put up the Kubuntu 8.x install against Windows Vista anyday for ease of install, speed to reboot/startup, and time to completion.

Kubuntu *smokes* Vista in the install, and learning where things are in Kubuntu is not that difficult. In fact, Kubuntu's menu depth to items averages 3-4 levels. Windows 7 is 4-5.

I have come to the conclusion that you are frustrated with Linux, because it doesn't act like Windows...and not because it is that hard to learn.

You just don't want to change or learn something different, which is typical of the common, lazy end-user.

by charliespencer

"I will put up the Kubuntu 8.x install against Windows Vista anyday for ease of install, ..."

I agree with you about ease of install IF you're starting from scratch. However, few users install Windows from scratch. Instead, they allow the pre-loaded installation process to run. I think that's an easier installation process than installing any OS from media, but that's an advantage gained from vendor support and not inherent in Windows itself.

by slayer_

You mostly just set your date/time and you registration key. Though my memory of W7 install is a bit fuzzy, I remember it was basically automated.

Really, I'd say both installs are onpar. I rather like how in Linux you can install from the LiveCD and have it install exactly what you want with programs and configurations ready. Just don't run out of RAM while set up applications, if you do, the LiveCD dies super super hard.

by charliespencer

Was this in response to something else?

Just out of interest, what's the last Linux distribution you tried? What hardware did you load it on? What did you try to do with it? A lot of your comments sound out of date; have you looked at anything released in the last 24-30 months?

by charliespencer

A choice that's driven more by what the individual user wants to do, regardless of the installation environment?

You need a trained staff to maintain any workplace server, regardless of OS.

by slayer_

That seems a bit aggressive... It's not even that appealing of a colour scheme, unless I was a 14 year old girl.

by jck

Well, bobgroz seems to want them to fix the problems first rather than the look...

...although...I have not recently had a Linux install problem.

Who knows what he meant. :^0

by charliespencer

I load a wallpaper changer and don't bother with desktop icons. Once I do that, any non-garish color scheme quickly becomes ignored 'background noise', like the air conditioner at work or the cat on my keyboard at home.

by slayer_

Its especially bad on RPM systems, as the dep's don't get removed when you remove the program.

HOWEVER!
The 2 megs of dependencies and no system slowdown is far preferable to the 2 gigs of .NET3.5 you need or the constant Java updates.

by j-mart

Pointless meaningless without any technical arguments, so one of the above. which one ?.

by charliespencer

his history shows he seems obsessed with this single topic.

I'm again reminded of some people I see at NASCAR races. They pay $70 or $100 to get in, then spend the entire race giving one driver the finger lap after lap. They don't cheer for any particular driver, just show their dislike with one individual. I don't comprehend spending that kind of money or attention on a person (or operating system) one apparently dislikes, but who am I to question how people get their harmless legal entertainment?

by bobgroz

No response to my arguments, just put down someone who has the correct view that home users don't want to have to learn about dependencies, the total differences in how software is installed (rmp, apt-get, source installs, tarballs), runlevels, compiling into the kernal vs modular, new hardware doesn't work (no drivers - but you guys always blame the vendors for this one), limited gaming,

linux is a server. a server. not a home use machine for the average home user. now go away propeller head go insult someone else that cant kick our ass out the window technically. I worked 20 years on mainframes and unix and linux. I could kick your ass. Go away litttle boy ( or are you a girl?). You don't have a clue. All you can do is insult because of your very limited technical skills.

by santeewelding

In the way of skills with respect to inordinate respect, unlike those of your correspondent.

I will re-evaluate anything further you have to say in light of your response, [b]j-mart[/b] having already been marked for extinction.

by slayer_

Not an IT forum. No one here can change Linux code for you. We just get annoyed at the complaining. no one is forcing you to use Linux (yet). So if you don't like it, don't use it. Or, if you are so skilled, build your own distribution with all the problems you state, resolved. Shouldn't be too hard right? I mean Apple did it, why can't you?

by mamies

When you install something like database, what dependencies do you need to worry about, now you just go to the software package manager, whichever you choose, type the name of the program and it worries about the dependencies.

The only time I had to worry about dependencies was when I installed software on my server, but according to you no homes use servers either.

by j-mart

It's only computers and software, no need for me to insult you, you insult yourself, I don't care what others choose for their home machines, I have a life.

by charliespencer

You worked twenty years with Linux. One more time, which distro and what hardware?

You complain that no one responds to your arguments but you won't answer that question, or Nick's regarding why you don't consider obtaining an .exe as part of the app installation process. You keep harping on run levels, but home owners can safely ignore those since all home-oriented distros boot to the GUI (level 5, I believe). You repeatedly bring up apt-get and other CLI installation tools, despite repeated information that GUI app installation tools are available now in almost all distros intended for home use. No distro intended for home use requires recompiling.

Why do you keep bringing up objections that are obsolete? It sounds like you haven't touched a modern Linux distro, but you refuse to tell us what you last tried. If you want people to respond, try ignoring those you find insulting and respond only to those who actually want to correspond with you.

by charliespencer

is most likely installing more than just the operating system. Any advantage of running a vendor's pre-installed Windows set-up may be outweighed by having to run additional setups for all the Windows-based applications. That Linux distro could be installing a ton of apps if desired along with the OS, all in one shot.

by slayer_

Ya know, those sort of things are common when using internet explorer.

I'm serious with this. Many many times, on my Win95, in a WinVista world running IE5.5. I would often get random errors of mysterious executable and DLL's being unable to run just as I was browsing the net.
I actually got them to runtime error once in awhile for missing system files.

And people think Linux is so secure.... Clearly Windows 95 is the most secure, nearly all modern malware won't run on it :p (missing some key API calls such as kernel_wait and loading the task manager actually halts processes, so processes can't respawn themselves)

by slayer_

Black and whites for me preferably. Currently I am using a Zune version of XP. Orange start button, black taskbar and title bars. My browser is using a black theme as well.

by mamies

This is so True,

He jumps down the throat of Linux because the process is to hard, but infact if I install something like skype the process is much the same.

by santeewelding

In your last phrase, you missed out on a bunch of commas.

They put a point to what you, otherwise, say in such a succinct fashion.

by j-mart

Is this sort of crap , I'm not going to pretend he's a person of great intelligence. I can respect some one with a different opinion, even a radically different opinion, if the can come up with a well reasoned argument in support, but bobgroz, the same old dribble about the same topic.

by jck

Special Ed from Crank Yankers

I peed in your Linux! YAY!!!!! :^0

by mafergus

With Linux at home, I always have a fresh meal waiting when I get off work after a long day of cage fighting windows.

by adunkin

I couldn't agree more. Linux has a long way to go. Installations, driver support, etc.-- Get back to the basics.

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