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How the IT answers in the TR should be?

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by voldar

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Hello everybody from the TR forum.

I have a question to ask, and I would be glad if you?d answer to it.

When I first stepped into this forum, I was really glad that finally, after a long ?trip in no-men land?, I found what I was looking for long time: a forum of real IT professionals, where questions about the IT problems in a way or another find their answer(s).
What I want to discuss now, is how the answers we give are contributing to the improvement of the others. I will talk for myself, because I met some situations when people ask for a question, but in fact they don?t know almost nothing about what they want, and from, lets say, 3 (i.e.) good answers, they choose the hardest one every time. And then, they come back with new questions, and so on ?
The question is, can we guide ?the-ones-who-ask?, and based on the answers we see for his question, give him some advice showing which or what to expect if choosing one or other solution? I talk here about the fact that ? do we have to take into consideration that maybe the person who ask questions has not much experience, and should be given more detailed instructions or just let him to choose?
I know, the IT nowadays is full of people who got certifications based on memorization, and cheat-shits, and with no hands-on labs at least (not speaking about real work experience), but ? I think that TR is the best forum I ever met. For myself, I like to help people, if I can, of course, and limited to my 4 years experience with Windows 2000, and with no more certifications than MCSA (210,215,216,218), which I obtained in December 2003 (last exam pass 216), but with a lot of practice in administering LANs and WANs (and you were the one that helped me a lot, not maybe by answering to my questions directly, not many of questions asked but mostly by your answers given to the others).
That?s it ? how the answers should be so that people learn something. Or should we don?t care about that?

80 replies

by oz_media

Well said and a very good question to say the very least!

Let me first start by clearing a couple of things.
I understand you don't speak English as your first language and your command of English is excellent. You are very well spoken yet I found a spellnig mistake that I must correct as you may use it in the wrong place and possibly offend someone.

You were referring to the people who use cheat sheets to help pass tests. The correct spelling is SHEETS, whereas you wrote SHITS. Now I don't know if this was intentional to refer to cheaters as shits but I think it was probably a spelling error.

SHITS are what you dog leaves on the neighbours lawn or what that first cup of coffee gives you in the morning. Technically it is a swear word other than it is so widely used nowdays, the TV tonight is the shits, my car runs shitty, I need to take a shit etc.
Please don't feel I am nitpicking on this, rather I am trying to save you possible embarrassment in the future (note, my spelling isn't much better and I am originally from England!) so I tip my hat to you for your ability to be multi-lingual.

THAT said, how should we answer questions.

Well Vlad, I think people will choose the amswwer they THINK sounds best or one that agrees with thier own thoughts. You can offer the same answer as 6 other people and get it rejected with someone else getting it accepted, it's just the 'luck of the draw' they say.

As for how much detail to offer, I TRY to be as informative as I can. Sometimes people will post and say they are new or have little knowledge, for these people I like to also addd some links to informatio for them to learn from if they are interested and explanations should be kept simple yet concise.

For those who say, here's my specs, this is happening, I've tried all this..., I will usually answer very breifly, these are the people who often think they know it all and wouldn't credit someone with a simple step they may have missed. I find the new people are usually the best at accepting answers and closing the question as they are happy to be helped. THose who know PC's will often leave it open and unanswered just because they refuse that it could be so simple and wait for a more challenging response to make themselves feel better.

In closing, congratulations on passing your certifications! Good for you, I hope you have a long and successful career in IT. Your comments toward TR are kind and I feel personally thanked as a TR participant. It's nice to know others appreciate help. I look forward to hearing more from you and feel free to ask ANY question without being ebarrassed at a simple answer, I sure as heck don't, I know nothing in comparisson to some of these guys.

It seems that we are always a geek or guru to those who don't know, but no matter how much we DO know, someone else is always a geek or guru in our eyes.

Take care,
OM

by oz_media

Like I said, my spelling isn't great, neither is my typing. I even typed "SPELLING MISTAKE" wrong!! SPELLNIG?

Sorry,
OM

by lvn

My intention concerning what I'm about to say is not meant to hurt any feelings but I've absolutely had it with the utter lack of correct spelling, grammar, punctuation, and general semantics that I've seen appear in so many of these entries. In just the one from OM alone, I counted no less that 20 mistakes in spelling, grammar, and punctuation, in addition to very awkward language--being from England is no excuse, if anything one might think it should be quite the opposite. I suspect that there might be a prevailing philosphy that one does not need to pay that much attention to the above aspects when communicating via e-mail but I don't agree. Whether you are writing a letter, a memo, an e-mail, or whatever, there is no justification for relaxed spelling, grammatical, etc. I realize that I must sound like a pedagogue, but I've always felt that the way you express yourself is a key element in how people judge you--whether right or wrong, it's a reality. So...what is my advice or solution? If you know you have deficiencies when expressing yourself in a written or spoken fashion, then do something about it. Find out how to fix what you are doing incorrectly and fix it. To reiterate an earlier statement...do not think that it is okay to be careless or sloppy when expressing yourself regardless of what the vehicle is that you are using to do so.

I hope this "venting" is taken in the spirit that it is offered...not mean, but helpful.

by voldar

Although I know the difference between sheet and shit .. I think my hand wrote down what I thought and not what I wanted to > cheat-sheet :)) And a big THANK YOU for all.

by mrafrohead

I'd stick with cheat-shit. I thought you did it on purpose and wished that I had come up with it first. Because, cheaters are shit. ;) And how witty, "cheat-shit". hehehahahaha I hope you don't mind if I borrow that one for the future, as I'm sure that one would come in handy.

@ oZ - informatio - I have to know, is that something like felatio? **nudge nudge - wocka wocka**

Mrafrohead

by thechas

While the focus of the Discussion and Technical Q&A forums is the IT community, we get a lot of questions from general users and tech school students.

If you see a discussion or question where you believe the answer is wrong or misguided, feel free to chime in with your comments.

I know that I do not know it all, and on occasion have given poor advice.

If I see a question where someone has been given wrong or dangerous advice, I have no qualms about jumping in and offering my advice.

Chas

by voldar

Chas, but what if that person feel offended by your comments? You know very well, as I do too, the ego is something that sometimes bypass the decent behaviour.

by oz_media

Hey Vlad, if you want to tell someone off, do so.
If you feel you are right, say so.
If you want to correct someone, you correct them.

It is also in thier complete right to come back with the same but that's life.

As for ego's everyone has one, some are in touch and in control of thier ego and not let it control thier actions. Others, usually the younger generation, haven't hed enough life experience yet and the ego drives them, as opposed to them driving thier own ego.

That gets into a lot of Freudian Phsychology but he had SOME relevant points regarding the EGO.

by mrafrohead

As long as you aren't being beligerant or slandering, I wouldn't worry about it.

They will just need to grow up. If they can't take the help that they're asking for, they really didn't need it that bad.

mrafrohead

by thechas

Unless the wrong advice is REALLY bad, I try not to berate the peer who posted it.

I try and explain why the advice won't work, or, in the case of conflicting advice, I chime in in support of what I believe to be the correct advice.

You can also operate in stealth mode, and offer your advice with NO reference to the existing advice.

There can be up to a 2 hour delay from when you submit your comments till the comments are visible to all users.
Many a time I have posted an answer when I thought that there were no other answers posted. Yet, when I come back to the question later, I find that I am the third or latter peer to post.

Chas

by mrafrohead

Throw your opinion out there. If you are over technical than what they need, they can sift through it, but if they need more, they'll ask.

Either way, if you know something, shoot for it. You probably will help that person with a problem they otherwise won't find an answer for elsewhere. Or at least a proper answer.

Mrafrohead

by joseph moore

The help that we can provide, I think, does have limits and can vary. In regards to the accuracy of the help, if the original question is worded poorly or in incomplete, then sometimes you just have to take a guess. Many times, I have posted things like, "If I understand what you are asking...", then I post a suggestion that may or may not address their problem.
I realize that we can't help everyone with one shot. A single answer isn't going to help with the "I have never seen a computer before, but I have been tasked with setting up Active Directory across a 12-country global WAN-thing. What do I do?" But, questions like this ARE asked, and just that way!
Personally, to help out with the aspect of questions taking longer and more detailed responses then just in these 2K-character-length-max boxes, I have my Peer Directory setting for e-mails through TR set to Unlimited. If someone wants to e-mail me on their question for further suggestions and help, I am glad to accommodate. I think I spent 2 weeks once on one problem a guy had, just e-mailing back and forth. We did get it resolved.
Why go to such lenghts? Why not! I like helping folks out with their computer questions. Like TheChas said, I don't know everything either! I just take my best shot, answer what I do know, do research on what I don't, and hope that my suggestions don't make things worse!

by passwordchanged

not everybody who comes to the site for the first time HAS any techpoints, so perhaps teh regulars could cut them some slack. TR is obliviously NEVER going to change theorder of the Discussions and Tech q&a links, so there'll always be tech q's posted here. deal with it.

by voldar

Joseph, nobody knows everything, even though, everybody would like to. What I wanted to underline by starting this discussion was exactly this fact, and also the fact that everybody, here, try to do their best in helping others, and that's a great thing.

by cactus pete

I thought you were given points just for signing up - at least they did way back when I started here. I'll go check the FAQ...

by jmottl

Hi Chas,
I saw your post about a delay between posting and site publication -- does that happen on a regular basis with your posts. I'd like to solve that issue if we can,
Sincerely
Judy Mottl
Senior Editor, Member Engagement

by oz_media

Chas gets his PC lag resolved, we have to put up with misposted questions in the discussion group!!
If there's ever gonna be any progress around here...

Just kidding, good luck with your predicament Chas.

by thechas

Well Oz, you can go ahead and do what I did after I saw the post, and send an e-mail to Judy.

I have also had good luck with sending e-mails to other TR staffers when a problem popped up.

I think though that Judy is concerned about posting delays in the Discussion Center and not the Technical Q&A section.

Chas

by oz_media

I get requested thread has been withdrawn.

This is common when using URL's to get back into TR, but usually just reloading it works.

I know that when you accept an answer it asks you to close the question, I don't think they stay active past that.

I have seen the same thing a few times though, many peopole don't close questions. I think they post here, resolve the issue some other way and forget about the posting here alltogether. We are left answering questions for people who have no intent on returning or playing by the rules. They are just posting everywhere to get stuff resolved. They have no idea or don't care that people take time to help and they simply move on without a care toward others that have spent time here. Oh well, there's all kinds of people in the world, do we really want that type returning (well I guess I'm still here)? Let them disappear into the woodwork and we can continue to build a respectable support forum.

by thechas

Unless I am bored, I tend to ignore technical questions posted in the Discussion Center.

If they have not been answered after a day, I may post an answer and suggest to the peer that they would get a quicker response if they posted their questions in the technical Q&A forum.

I think the root cause of the issue of questions in the discussion forum is that on many other web sites, they only have a discussion forum.
When there is a Q&A section, it is often an e-mail link or form that sends a message to the sites (manufactures) tech support department.

Chas

by wordworker

TheChas, This is an interesting little thread. I'm curious, what is your reason for ignoring tech questions in the Discussions forum? It is because you don't want to share expertise without the reward of TechPoints? I think OzMan has it right when he says that some people don't realize there's a tech Q&A section separate from Discussions. Therefore, it seems to me that we may be short-changing our IT brethren who are new to TR. They see Discussions on a tech site, they post a question, and no one helps them-what is the incentive to come back? Just curious.

by cactus pete

Well, I may be a bad person for it, but if the person can't find the Q&A section, maybe that's a sign of why they're having tech problems...

I feel that this is a site for tech people to help tech people. Now I am happy to help anyone - where I can. But I look to the dicussion forum for discussions, and the Q&A section for problems. Sometimes I'm really not in the mood for helping anyone, whether they be techies or nitwits who stumbled in here. Honestly, there have been some questions posted by people that I swear must have really been 10,000 monkeys...

But I think Chas said that he'd ignore them for a day, not forever. personally, I ignore them forever unless I'm in a good mood.

But if "I couldn't find the Q&A section" is the excuse... well, I'm not going to be terribly forgiving. But I don't flame them.

Recently, I think I've answer 2 or three issues here and gently reminded them that if they want faster / better / more answers, that they go to the Q&A pages...

What's wrong with that?

by thechas

The Tech Points are not the issue.

I have more than I need as is.

I started waiting a day to answer questions posted in the Discussion Center a number of months ago when the Discussion Center was seeing a LOT of questions posted.

There is an old discussion thread on the problem, and there was a general agreement from those who responded to the thread to ignore questions posted in the Discussion Center.

My logic for waiting a day, is to reinforce the swifter response one usually gets from the Technical Q&A section.

Keep in mind, when you start or post to a discussion thread, you have to come back to it to see if you got a response.

When you ask a question, you automatically get an e-mail when an answer is posted.

Chas

by oz_media

Time to slow the hands down my man.

Ozman has been misunderstood, I think I was one of the first people to bitch about miposted question in discussion forums.

If I want to help people solve problems, I go to the Q&A section. Then I may want a break and check out the Discussions. I se the title, ADAWARE or SPYBOT? that interests me so I check out the discussion. It's just some knob looking for hep removing a virus he picked up on Kazaa and gets tiring. They need to be separated to offer those that help a bit of a break when needed. I was the first to start complaining to people who posted in discussions and told them to take thier questions to the Q&A section.

I stand with Chas on this, sorry.

by joseph moore

The first year+ I was on TR, I never looked at the Discussions forum! It is really only in the past year that I started to look, and then only the most recent 6 months that I even started to post in Discussions.
I came to this site because I was bored one night, and I fancied myself as someone with some Windows knowledge to spread.
I would up learning a whole hell of a lot more instead!
Now, I check the Q&A section daily, the new questions. I review my past questions for anything that needs a followup. And I look in Discussions for interesting things, specifically non question related. In my head, Discussions are not for questions on how do I fix my computer; that's the Q&A secton. I like computer-related discussions, not the general topic ones. I participate (somewhat!) in those discussions. If I see a question here, I might give it a shot, if it is a question I want to answer. But if it is the type of question I just don't have the heart to tackle (like "how do I share files between 98 and XP???"; I just can't take this on!) then I go on.
Nothing personal. That is just how it is in my head. Discussions for discussing stuff; Q&A for questions/answers.
Maybe my approach is too simple, but that is what it is.

by hal 9000

In a Discussion thread I answer it if I can and then suggest that a listing in the Q & A setion might bring a better/quicker answer.

Maybe I'm just too easy or really don't care all that much as it is a hard job answering questions from the other side of the world when you will never get near the offending machine to see if the offered problem is the actuall problem and not something different all together. Perhaps I'm just a "Soft Touch" as I do really feel sorry for anyone who askes a question as they are obviously nearing the end of their teather in most cases but I will admit to avoiding answering questions that appear to me to be Exam Questions for schools or MS Certs.

by oz_media

I was given 500 points for joining, more for subscribing to ezines, and more when I read them.

If I was BRAND bew, I'd had 500 points to get my question answered. Seeing as some people offer the recommended 150 points (others as few as 5 points) I don't think NOT having points is the issue. TR wouldn't do so well if you needed to be a regular before getting help.

by wordworker

OM I think your suggestion from a few days (weeks?) ago is the way to go - put the Tech Q&A link ABOVE the Discussions link, so new visitors will be more likely to click on it first. Then they'd learn right away about the techpoints system. Of course it may take an act of congress to get TR designers to alter the left nav, but if any of them are reading this post -I agree with OM. Move Tech Q&A up above Discussions.

by oz_media

I was just saying you could have a RESOURCES or GET HELP link. This would then open a page "Would you like to get help solving a problem?" (Q&A) or "Would you like to discuss a topic of interest?" (Discussions)

Something to that effect anyhow.

by cactus pete

When I link to it, is said closed, not withdrawn, and that one answer had been accepted. Maybe this is all too confusing... more in a bit

by cactus pete

I can get in - though maybe because I answered it previously... There is a space between the & and t in there... If you don't remove the space, you get the withdrawn message - is that your problem?

sorry, no tiny url on this laptop, and i don't have time for it just at the moment...

by oz_media

Hi I started a question TEST close, obviously can't answer it myself. If you want to add a test answer I can close it and see if the way it is closed has changed.

I looked for spaces and couldn't see one, until the %20 was added, removing it allowed me to see your post.

It has been accepted but I don't think the person closed it. Normally I think you get asked whether to leave it open or close it. Someone MAY have decided to eave it open.

They should REALLY simplify TR for those who haven't used it before. It must be quite confusing to some, I'm sure people don't all intentionally try to be jerks but just end up dumbfounded sometimes if not familiar with it.

The Discussions and Q&A links could be combined into a single link (resources or whatever) Clicking the link should then open a new page, Ask a Question, Discuss your interests, etc.

Oh well, maybe they need less technical staff and more sales or management staff that understand people's thought process or something, I don't really know.

by voldar

I agree with your idea, but I think the TR had something else in their mind. If you look at the webpage, you?ll see that Q&A is right at the eyes imaginar line, (or it's only my impression?), so, it?s quite easy to find it. If you ask me, no need to change place or reverse something, just change the letters format, more bold or RED or ?in a SQUARE?, so that everyone that comes here notice first this ?point? and then other links. If any adnotations can be added (like when you point the mouse ? a drop down list saying few words about the link) it would be even perfect!

by oz_media

Hi, your points make some sense, but I think the Q&A being lined up with your eyes if a fluke.

If you change your screen resolution it moves out of thet line. If you raise or lower your cjair, your monitor, tile or anything it will change the line of sight again. I understand what you're saying, but this is a marketing technique in retail and food stores not Web sites.

The MOST important part of ANY website is not content. It is navigation. You can have the best content on the web, btu if your site isn't easy to navigate, you'll loses your visitors. Another reason why web hits are irrelevant, they tell you nothing about how your site is working.

Positioning is the next most important step, but TR hasn't got that concern in most engines and will pay for placement if needed.

Navigation could see MUCH improvement, I've resolved this issue for several companies now and they find visitors will get more out of thier sites now.

I know as a fact, there is a TONNE of content here I have never bothered to lok for due to the poor navugation system and the search, well it's a waste of time really.

I don't know how the staff is comprised at TR but despite the fact I love coming here, I am sure that hiring someone experienced in marketing and more importantly, people's natural habits would offer a great improvement. One thing I noticed when moving from marjeting into IT was that IT staff have no idea how to make something appeal to users. They write great code ad offer a wealth of informtaion but it is very rarely easily accessed or read. Techs don't make good salesmen, most salesmen don't make good techs, it is a different mindset. No matter how well a tech thinks he/she may understand marketing, unless you have a flair for advertising and good people skills, it just won't work.

But hey, it's a tech site not a user friendly site. It serves it's purpose but not as an attention grabber, unless people are looking for this type of website to begin with , they won't stay long.

by oz_media

I tried that.

Like they say, you can lead a horse to water....

I'm not too concerned it's just a peeve that such things could be overlooked oin such a heavily populated and administered site.

It's not my money, and it's THIER site.

I will offer suggestion but beyond that, I won't lead people by the hand.

OM

by joseph moore

Oz, I think this is a great suggestion! It would then make the choice of either just talking about something, or posting a question that needs an answer, much easier. I bet it would really clear things up!
I don't know of TR will do this, but it is a very smart idea!

by oz_media

"only the most recent 6 months that I even started to post in Discussions."

Always good to have new inout here, don't disappear.

You seem to have the same thoughts on this that I do. When I look at discussions, it's becaue I don't WANT to answer questions. The one you listed in your POST is something I'd expect in Q&A but it's not a 'discussion' there's a way to do it, that's it.

I would even accept those homework questions here as opposed to real Q&A problems. If someone was to say, I have a project and need to describe Full vs Half Duplex and this is all I found..., I'd find that an acceptable discussion, as opposed to "Full and Half Duplex, definitions please." with 5 points attached to it!

by oz_media

Here's what I've come up with.

A) The user is scared off by the choices (I'll get to those)

B) The user doesn't want o reapeat the steps.

WHen you choose to accept an answer, you are given a drop down to accept the answer, then a comment box if you want to offer your thanks. Underneath the comment box reads.

( )Submit ratings and close question (no more answers can be posted)
( )Submit only unacceptable ratings and leave the question open for more answers.

A new user unsure of the format may be turned off at the thought of "(no more answers can be posted)" and opt to leave it open.

If they do choose to CLOSE the question, they are further 'warned' by a pop up dialg bix "Closing the question prohibits it from receiving further answers." With an OK button. New users are usually scared witless to click OK as they are always told not to just click OK(and they should be!).

So the BRAVE ones forge ahead and click the OK button. They are takento another page with LARGE bold type stating,
"You have chosen to close this question and award (XXXXX) points.
Is that correct?"

NOW they've got TWO buttons to choose from:
YES and NO.

What new user is taught to click YES to anything? Especially a foreign site that they are new to because they ALREADY clicked the wrong button somewhere else and ended up in the Q&A forum trying to resolve it !!

How about checkboxes to rate the answers, then a "SUBMIT' (new user friendly) button to award the points. Or even 'ACCEPT' without the warnings.

by hal 9000

After all it was Jung how did repeat that "Life is a Sexually Transmitted Deasise with an extremly bad Prognosis."

I actually love that one and use it a lot with some people who continually seem to think they are better than me because they have a Batcholers or something like that in some unnecessary field like Social Work.

That probably also explains why that Social Worker had to run me down on the bike last October as well.

by oz_media

Carl Jung has much more modern realiztions than Freud. My reference to Freud was due to the nature of the post being focused on the EGO, which was Freud's bug claim to fame (understanding the human ego).

As much as SF was politically incorrect in his theories, many of his values behind what drives the EGO are seen today although he wrote them many years before, when his theories WEREN'T considered politically incorrect, people just had a hard time thinking that they may be driven by the EGO. The ideas, shall we say, HURT thier ego's.

As I am one that instantly sees someone's ego driven faults, I often think of the old bespectacled guy as people talk to me.

Perhaps this is also how I have a negative view of American habits, not that others don't also display this, but I see this type of drive being shouted in the streets of the USA.

I am NOT taking a pot shot at anyone here, just trying to further understand myself and rationalize my feelings.

I could be very wrong but it is a thought.

by wordworker

I guess I needed Chas' reminder that you can't get e-mail notification when you post a Q in discussions. Doh! That eliminates having to come and sift through formerly searchable discussions. Doh! Doh! I'll catch on...

by lvn

Yes, it should be "relaxed spelling, grammar..." (not "grammatical", obviously)...but I caught it!

by hal 9000

What matters about spelling or grammar?

I think I even spelt everything correctly above now that is something different.

by oz_media

I am sure that some of you actually tried to study typing and keyboadr skills. I didn't.

In my industry, there is mostly handwritten proposals, reports and contracts. My handwriting is impeccable and many say beautiful to read. My vocabulary, although very limited in the garage, is well above the norm in person or when in a business situation. I have MANY years of sales, presentation and public speaking experience, MANY years, I have even taught Dale Carnegies Effective public speaking and human relations courses.

If put in a situation where I need to sell my ideas, I will beat my competitors or close the deal MOST of the time, THESE are areas where grammar is important.

When it comes to the keyboard, I have NO typing skills. I hen peck through the keyboard at lightning speed but cannot do so with proper fingering and without looking at the keyboard. in order to ensure correct posts I have to back up and reread the entire post, usually making little adjustments and rewording entire paragraphs, leaving some of them out of context with the next.

I agree my spellnig has MUCH to be desired IN THIS FORUM, but in reality I have an excellent command of the zEnglish language.

I don't know how much time YOU have each day to ensure your TR posts are accurate, but if I took an extra 5 minutes per post, I'd never gat any work done.

So as far as MY accuracy, someone who speaks English as a second language, or someone quickly responding and not taking time to proof read an online post, I'd just have to say DEAL WITH IT.

Some may have no problem quickly reading my screwed up post and deciphering what I'm trying to say or that words often get a space bar added before the last leter or simply missing the space (Hell othere howare you?). If it is THAT hard to read, I'd say you have two choices.
1) Don't read it if it hurts your brain
2) Learn grammar yourself so it isn't so hard to determine my intent.

With that aside, I can only say that I'm not offended but I am shocked that you are unable to read the same post everyone else does.

This isn't a spelling bee and grammar should not be important. If spelling and grammar are THAT important, how did poets become famous?

There you go, just pretend it is poetry.

OM

by hal 9000

That is fairly correct as most of the people here are more tech orrentated rather than sales people and we all use this place as a forum to discus various topics ranging from well almost anything but al of us learn something from this place which only makes our life easier when we are back at work.

But if you want to get things interesting just but into one of the "Political" discussions which constantly appear here and you'll find a totally different side of us the very same person who helped you 30 seconds ago is only too willing to tear you apart for disagreeing with their point of view, however very few take it personaly and are onlt too willing to help with a technical question latter.

It just depends on where you want to play on this site as to what you can expect to find but overall their a great bunch of guys and galls who will spend hours of their time in an attempt to help you out with a problem if asked and what makes it even better is the fact that they can be half a world away with no hope of ever seeing you're actual problem and still come up with a solution. It is the hardest thing to do but also the most personally forfilling or at least that is what I have found so far.

Col

by oz_media

I agree Colin, some of the world's best support is found right here.

I find it actually quite enlightening to find so many people who have the ability to separate disagreements from personal feelings. You say that we often bicker and argue about who killed who (sorry going a little Monty Python again), but when it comes to crunch time, the support cannot be equalled, if it can PLEASE tell me where.

I personally think that the guys here (yes, Americans included) are the most sincere and helpful people I have ever encountered, my hat's off to all of you at TR.

(even used Spell Check to keep SOME/ONE of you happy.) :-)

by r3d

...that "one" could retract a Post if needed. I have made mistakes in my attempts to help others, through miscommunication or simply not thinking properly, and it would be really be helpful to be able to retract a post if it was one of those "unfortunate" cases.

Now, I simply will post right after it with a correction... I guess that works too... heheh.

I guess ultimately I would like to spare myself the future embarrassment of being wrong at one time or another... lol

Ces't la vie! (no, I am not French :-P )

-R3D

by joseph moore

I agree, it would be great to be able to "pencil-whip" a post if you have something incorrect in there that needs changing.

by oz_media

Of scourse you're not French, if you were you would have said "C'est la vie" (Meaning That is life) as opposed to "CES't la vie" (meaning CES't la vie).

Just bugging you!

OM

by voldar

Col Luck, I know that very well. The problem is, I am new in the politics J, and don?t know much about the subjects you were talking about ? but I will definitely change that soon ? so in this kind of discussions I am more like a reader than an ?active person?. But, as I said above, things are going to change soon. And yes, I agree with a dispute, it?s even better than having everybody on the same side of the barricade. At least, one of the partners of the dispute will start thinking twice before opening his mouth to speak J on a subject he did not know at all.
And by the way ? disputes give sometimes the salt and pepper of the day-to-day life.

by hal 9000

But Americian Politics are so hard to follow. I'm obviously very interested in politics as you can no doubt see as I don't even know what a Republican or Democrat are other than different Political parties but what is worse I'm not the slighest bit interested in finding out either and even if I did have soimeone here post a very detailed reply it would be in one ear and straight out the other as it just isn't important to me.

But the technical side is so I tend to remember most things posted here about anything technical. Sometimes I like to play Devils Advocate and just stir the pot a bit to see how some people get carried away if only they realised that I really don't care about most things political as I've spent quite a few years working in that area only to find out that one side is as bad as the other.

Over here in Australia there is a standing joke that goes something like this "Question:- How do you know when a polition is lying? Answer:- When ever they are talking!" And that is how I treat most of these threads but I get a good laugh out of seeing some quite normal and very intelegent people get so worked up over something as silly as a political argument.

But they are the "Hot Topics" that get a lot of responces so they are always worth having a look in on and the ocasional rib.

Col

by jardinier

I am sick to death of hearing about American politics, which seem to be predominantly Republican biased on this website.

PLEASE! PLEASE! share with us the political setup in your own country. Then we will actually have something NEW to discuss.

by r3d

"I counted no less that 20 mistakes in spelling"

did you mean to say "than"?

:-)

-R3D

I got your meaning though...

by lvn

Yes...I did mean to say "than"--thanks for pointing it out to me. I don't take offense to being corrected when I've made a mistake.

by oz_media

"I don't take offense to being corrected when I've made a mistake."

Nobody does, are you trying to wave your righteous flag today?

by r3d

I don't know about you, but I typically do research on the answers that I find before I employ them. This applies to solutions I recieve from Forums, MS KB, Email, or any suggestions to an answer to one of my questions. I don't think any techie here wouldn't unless they were so trusting of another, (they do not really know), to find a solution to a problem within their company, or of their personal systems. Specifically, I wouldn't advise someone just taking the first advice they find and implementing it without testing or researching whether or not it really will help the situation.

Typos:
That said, I don't mind the typos I've seen here, i just corrected one on the guy that gave a little "rant" about just this topic. if I get the general idea, I'll run with that; if not, I'll ask you to be a bit more specific. This is a forum, and not a letter to the Pope (or if you prefer, President). Besides, the only thing lost is your time to get an appropriate answer; providing I have one, lol.

I wish you luck and general goodwill.

-R3D

P.S. - I made 13 corrections to this reply before submitting it, lol....

by oz_media

As for taking someone's word vernbaqtim without further research.

I would stick my tongue on a transformer to test Voltage if these guys said so. I would take the suggestions of 'selected' TR peers long before accepting what MS or Gates himself suggested. The people here are here to help, not make money, THAT is where the quality of support is improved.

As for typos, I didn't make ANY, mind you I never bothered to look either! ;-)

by voldar

If we are not confident in us, we don?t see us like ?perfect persons? what do you think everybody else would think about us? Someone said once: feel yourself confident, strong and act like that, and you will be seen as so, even if in fact you are far away from feeling that.
Teasing you about that ?never make ANY mistake?

by maecuff

I'm impressed, that is the first time I've ever seen anyone use vernbaqtim correctly in a sentence.

by voldar

of course I do that every time (not 24/24 :D). Although finding something in the Q&A is a bit too much TIME CONSUMING, it's a good practice to do.

by oz_media

I like to live dangerously, I will hit that SUBMIT button with all the force my index finger can muster.

I did go back and ee if I had actually comlpeted a mistake proof post, only to find that I had NO MISTAKES!

I still say it's a word, somewhere, in some language, that means SOMETHING. If not, I'll write my own language and my word can represent the letter 'A'.

by bartokri

hello everybody from the TR forum.

I am very impress the way "voldar" explained guiding the ones-who-ask. The honest truth is that, after much sugestions,details explanation should follow for more understanding of feedbacks.

Bartholomew.

by voldar

for your lines. This is also my thought, but also, I come with another point of view: does that guy who asks a question really want to know more?

by oz_media

In MANY cases I'd say YES, in more recent cases, I'd say only enough to pass the test.

Guess they are hoping to make up some 'cheat-shits' and don't care what the answer means.

Not poking fun of you, but as it has been said already, this is a better explanation of the people who cheat.

by fluxit

Your question really points to either mentoring new people and/or leading people in our field. Each of us only have our career about 20 to 40 years depending on life choices. It really comes down to stewardship. We actually occupy a career position and each of us should be mentoring others to take it from us and carry on. Leadership is guiding those future techies to become more than we were.

I am currently on a project that lacks leadership and is poorly organized. I have recently assumed the role of second in command and the title of technical lead. My job is to organize this project and I am having to mentor the programmers and networkers. I am writing a Concept of Operations, a plan of action, providing training on how to tech spec, and next I am about to step into a role of mentoring technique and development skills.

Providing this kind of leadership abates many questions, focuses productivity, and strengthens the management aspects of the project for my boss. It is more programmed management.

However, eventhough it sounds simple our customer lacks leadership and managerial experience. Egos get in the way and we end up stop gapping issues which creates turbulence for the junior team. dozens of questions, many unnecessary, stir up.

The point being there is a structure or order to solving IT problems. Sometimes its managerial other times its techie troubling. TR should design a programatic approach to answering questions that involves mentoring.

Create online teams of regular members each having expertise areas. for example a Red team that has a networker, dba, server king, etc... A blue team that has managers, supervisors, and consultants, etc... A green team that has programmers and engineers etc...

The junior peer logs into a team forum based on his expertise/career position where he can be mentored by other senior peers.

Use online graphics of networks, flowcharts, and code in a collaborative environment that allows others to 'whiteboard' the discussion.

Just one thought.

by voldar

you are saying. Before moving to Canada ? two month ago ? I was IT manager within an enterprise and I was blessed I may say.
Why? Because I had the possibility to take every decisions I thought appropriate to build an IT structure relaying into the effective enterprise needs. And this is not a day-to-day opportunity. Before converting myself to the IT field I was civil engineer designer and project manager, and this helped me a lot. My experience in the field of civil engineering helped me to pinpoint problems, to find the causes of them, and start building/studying solutions, and most of all, choosing the most appropriate solution.
I agree with you that, from my experience also, there is a lack of leadership, but I would rather say ? it is not about the leadership, is the fear of not doing mistakes.
Most of the politicians (for example) rather than start doing and acting, what do they do? They say: if a thing can be done today, lets start doing tomorrow, maybe the day after tomorrow it will not be needed at all. And, why is that? Because, nowadays politicians care a lot more for their chairs than for really doing something. And this can be applied in every field.
I think this is also your situation. In fact is not an ego problem, because they don?t have this (ego), it?s more being afraid to take decisions and act.
Once, someone said: only the narrow-minded (stupid) people care a lot about his chair, and sometimes I must agree with him (I underline here again: sometimes!).
And by the way ? good job for what you are trying to do ? it is worth to try finishing it, no matter how many problems you will encounter. This is the way that you build your personality and you exercise your leadership. Trying, testing, re-beginning but never give up.
I will see for myself what the future will bring. for now, I check the market :D.

by oz_media

Where ya been?

I know people here think I'm Anti American (don't know how they got THAT idea:-)) but the truth is, as I've said many times, I don't DISLIKE Americans OR America. I dislike the holier than thou attitude that I see ALL the time, others have exprpessed here and the President encourages. It just turns people off of you all.

As I've always said, it is fine to be proud and you all have reason to be, the USA has done MUCH good in the world. So has almost every other Allied country though, we just keep our pride to oursleves and try not to flaunt it in everyone's face.

Just need to be a little more humble you know?

But I'm glad you saw that, I figured someone would, I'm just surprised it wasn't my favorite battle friend Max.

Have a good one Duck, sharp eyes!

by voldar

I really am happy you use my ?expression? ? don?t mind at all. And yes, you are right. I saw that also.

by mallardtooxx

Oz, I have been here just not inclined to post all that often, I felt as if I had begun to monopolize the forum and wanted to let new people get a chance to voice their opinions. As for the jibe, well I couldn't resist, I am glad to see you have continued to be here, makes the place mor interesting =)I am around though and always watching.

cheers and good health
-duck

by oz_media

I hope you don't mind being called VLAD, you had signed some opsts I think as Vlad and I believe your name is Vlad. I seem to think you changed your alias recently to Voldar, is that what you prefer?

ANYHOW, I agree whole geatedly that inner confidence and strength are the most important parts of success. KNOWING you are better is one thingm ACTING like you're better is a different story.

The first exudes confidence, the second is arrogance.

You can have an 'air' of confidence which is felt by all those around you without the need to express yourpersonal confidence.

A dog can smell your fear without your screaming and running away.

by voldar

You are right. My name is VLAD, and I like my name, but ... when I tried to use it, in TR, someone else already got it. So, I use this one VOLDAR which is a letter mix between VLAD and some letters of my second name.
And BTW, dogs do feel fear! In fact, smell the "adrenaline", and as we all know, dogs reacts very much to odors. Never asked yourself why that dog is barking to that lady?!?

by oz_media

It is a very well known fact that dogs smell fear. It was an example for having INNER confidence without being outwardly arrogant.

There is no need to SAY you are confident, it is felt by those around you.

I don't need to tell my employees I'm thier boss, they KNOW I'm the boss due to my leadership and positive attitude that keeps me winning. I just don't need to tell them or remind them, they FEEL it, just like a dog feels fear in a person.

Perhaps my example was just a little too suggestive without getting my point across.

by voldar

As leader, you are treated/recognized not because you have a note on your back/front with the word "leader" on it, but because of your capacities to manage situations and deal with people. And also, I might admit, in the same time, not everyone is a leader - this is more like something with what you are born with. I met people who were in great positions and they had nothing in common with the "title" they were holding, and other people that were lets say "workers" but with a great aurora of leader.

by hal 9000

Realised that I am the Boss here and not her I might stand half a chance as she seems to think that whenever I go out and spend far longer that what the job should have taken and don't charge properly for the work she seems to think that I'm personally stealing money from her pocket and then when she screws up and needs things fixed that is the only time I'm welcome around the office.

But I just keep screwing things up and constantly giving her headackes with all the mistakes that I make in her eyes but at least the other techies here seem to have the mistaken belief that I know almost everything silly boys that they are. The main problem however is the constant worry that I will not be able to keep them in a job as Microsoft might one day actually get their act together and make something that actually works and we'll all be out of business.

Well that's my nightmare anyone got a better one?

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