I.T. job situation, I need advice.

Hello...

You asked for advice, so here goes...

It is clear from your post that you are a very smart, high energy, gifted person. But, you need to learn patience. You've got 45 or 50 working years ahead of you but you're rushing as though you've got 2 years left to live. At 20 years old you're making $96K and you want to quit?!

Your career is not going to always move forward. Sometimes it will move sideways. Sometimes even backwards. Sometimes you're going to work with or for dopey people. You have come a very long way in under 2 years. You've learned a lot. You're now making an outstanding salary. But, over time, you're not going to get everything you think you should nor every title or position you think you deserve. It just doesn't work that way.

I recommend you take a deep breath and count your blessings. Even though you think you know a lot, more than the managers you work with that are much older than you, there is still a lot more for you to learn in your current job.

You're going to do very very well! But, you need to learn patience.

Good luck to you.

-----Steve

I think the same thing at times and have been told that many times. I mean, life isn't always fair right? I guess I should just suck it up and hope things get better down the road. After all, the VP and President always joke I'm going to end up running the company.

thanks

Very close...

But, don't hope. Plan. Study what you can give and take from your current employment. Then make your plans. A man executing his own plan does not need to rely on hope and does not get frustrated.

-----Steve

by maxwell edison May 7, 2005

.
You said that you like your job, but don't like your bosses. Who cares? And that you don't like the way they run THEIR company. So go start your own company. It's their company to run as they see fit.

You're 20 years old, you like your job, it pays you $96,000 a year, and you're thinking about quitting.

Can you spell I-D-I-O-T ?

Your message sounds so far-fetched, that I have to question its legitimacy. If it is legitimate, you need a good hard slap up along the side of your head.

by why me worry? May 7, 2005

You sound like a one man IT shop, in which you are Jack of all trades and they are paying you quite well. But, they are overworking you like a dog and keeping you baited with the high salary. Have you asked your boss to get you an assistant or someone who you can train to relieve some of the workload? I'm not advocating you quit, as the decision is solely yours to make, but if they don't get you help, they will start abusing your willingness to work by piling more and more crap on top of you and then bitch about it when stuff isn't done and projects fall behindm if that isn't already happening. I was in a similar situation back in my early 20s' over 10 years ago, but I was not making the kind of money you are now and they ended up terminating me and because they gave my job to one of their friend..how thoughtful of those scumbags. Also, for someone of your age to be making close to what I was making a year ago, granted I am 32 years old and a senior systems engineer with over 10 years of experience, is a blessing and very rare in this industry. You are still young, so you may not need to worry about family obligations and mortgages, but having them overload you with this much work amounts to sheer slavery on their part and may impact your health if you don't get enough rest. Talk to your boss and make a valid case as to why you cannot handle it all by yourself, but be professional about it and state that being a one man show creates a single point of failure. What if you want to go on vacation? Who will back you up? You are creating a situation in which you have an invisible shackle on your leg and they cannot let you go because of the "what if" factor. What if god forbid you get hit by a truck tommorow? Where will they be and who will handle the IT functions? If they cannot see the case for getting you help, then start looking for another job, but realize that someone of your age making $96K is farfetched and nobody will offer you that kind of money again, unless you get lucky twice. You are a bright individual and very motivated if you are taking on this much, but you need to slow down before you give yourself an aneurism from all of the stress and craziness they are subjecting you too.

You're right, I am a one man IT shop. I have been fighting with them for the last few months to allow me to hire someone to help. They finally saw the need for it this last business trip when things when haywire when I was in mid-flight.

Realize - I am not making a base salary of 96k. Once I hire someone, which I will, I will most likely be cutting down my on call and will be back to making $57,600.

It is infact legitimate. Yes - I know it is their company to do with as they please and I don't HAVE to work for them. I do run my own business on the side.

It's just the fact that I am being overworked, under appreciated and very frustrated.

by it.consultant Oct 18, 2005

The way that you wrote this post say about less about DoodinIT's intelligence and more about your lack of it.
If his post is legitimate, then clearly DoodinIT is a bright upcoming IT mover and shaker who should be cultivated and, at the very least watched, and not reprimanded by the likes of you.

Given that you're a manager, I can understand, but not relate to nor accept your envy.
After all, you resent someone like DoodinIT, who could not only earn more money than you
(and rightfully so), but also replace you sooner than you realize.

Don't hate on him because he possesses more talent now than you ever will in your entire career.
Companies should pay their workers according to the value they bring and the effort they invest in their work.
Companies won't accept anything less from clients, so why should they shortchange their employees?

If you think that only age and years of experience should dictate salary,
then perhaps you don't understand the dynamics of the labour market.
While they matter, supply and demand, talent and contribution should count for more.

If we apply the same cro-magnon logic you used on young workers to startup / infant companies,
then they shouldn't earn more than their more established competitors,
even if they provide better services than, or do so more cheaply and/or efficiently than their competitors.
They should just be happy with whatever bones their clients toss their way.

DoodinIT,
if you are indeed tell the truth, please continue doing your thing.

by maxwell edison Oct 18, 2005

.
Are you for real? What a joke!

by it.consultant Oct 18, 2005

DoodinIT,
if you are indeed tell the truth, please continue doing your thing.

by maxwell edison Oct 18, 2005

.
I'm not envious of anyone. Why did you assume as much?

You suggested that I resent the poster. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You suggested I hate him. Wrong.

You suggest that I resent him because he makes more money than me, or could make more. Wrong again.

And you suggest that I resent him because he could replace me? What a joke.

You said, "Don't hate on him because he possesses more talent now than you ever will in your entire career."

Well, up-yours comes to mind.

What's your problem, dude? You made more false assumptions that I think I've ever seen. I didn't say ANY of the things you claimed I did. And if you claim to be a friggin' mind reader, you've got a problem.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

by maxwell edison Oct 18, 2005

For someone who claims to be such a good manager, you have an awful lot to learn about courtesy, class, dignity and, in general, how to talk to people, especially those who don't report to you.

Are you brave enough to tell us which company allows your mouth to run amok the way it has in this forum? Just for future reference, so that the rest of us decide not to work there.

Rest assured that I know to deal with your kind.

I dare to reply to this post because I have more to say to you (that I wish I could tell you in person), if you offer your worthless 2 cents again.

by why me worry? May 7, 2005

"I personally think that my boss just doesn?t want to put me into an executive position such as a director or CTO because she is already furious that a 20yr old is making $96k/year and she has said several times that she wishes she could go back and do what I am doing for a living."

If you can document this and have solid proof, you may be able to take them to court on the basis of age discrimination. She already shot herself in the foot by showing her displeasure with your salary, so you may have a legitimate case against them. So friggin what that you are 20 years old and making $96K? I've known stock brokers who were 19 years old were already millionaires! Are they not entitled to the money because of their age? It seems that you know more about business ethics than they do, yet they are using your age to sweep you under the rug and trample all over you.

Your right - I could probably take them to court on it, however do I really want to? I don't think that would be the best choice.

If you take legal advice, be sure you know the qualifications and experience of the person you are talking to.

- How many times has he successfully sued a company for age discrimination?

- What was the award from the suit?

- What were the long-term effects of the suit on the plaintiff's ability to work in his profession?

My view: The idea of you suing your current employer for age discrimination is absurd and completely without merit of any sort.

-----Steve

by stress junkie May 8, 2005

As others have said, you apparently don't realize how good you have it at your current situation.

At my last job I was making $66,000 base pay, but bonuses raised my effective pay to about $90,000. BUT, I had 15 years experience and was expected to work nights and weekends whenever required without any additional compensation. And I did work plenty of nights and weekends.

Quit your whining. I think you are a spoiled brat.

After reading my post - What do you honestly think my job title should be? I know, I know - it's just a job title. However, I do NOT plan on working here for the rest of my life and a job title has a lot of say on a resume.

by roger99a May 7, 2005

you can't be an Admiral with one ship ,and admirals don't pull the ropes that trim the sails. When you are managing people instead of machines then you can be Director. When you're managing managers that are managing people you barely know then you can be a CTO.
You sound like a Systems Engineer, assuming you actually have an engineering degree or certification. If you don't then they have done all you should expect to feed your ego.
As far as the web work goes, you may be right or you may be wrong, but it's someone elses decision. You're making money and working way too many hours as it is. You sound like a future burn out.
My boss decided one year to let his staff make their own titles. I was "King of Spain" until my next evaluation.

by why me worry? May 7, 2005

I will slay all unworthy infidels who challenge my authority

You're absolutly right. So then "Network Operations Manager" does suit well.

Your job title is not that important to future employers. What is important is what you know, what you did in your previous job(s), and HOW WELL YOU HANDLED IT :-). This includes dealing with adversity.

If a man's current job title is Chief Executive Officer and he is an idiot, his title will not help him one bit.

And, no job title or job function is going to take away the fact that you are still only 20 years old. If you turn flame up to cook the steak faster, it will be burned on the outside. Good things...sometimes...take time.

-----Steve

Yes - many people view my age and don't think much of me. However, it is not about the age. I know many "older" techies who do not know much at all.

by jsowell42 May 8, 2005

I think you have an amazing situation. I think you know it too. I dont think you dont know how good you have it at this company, it sounds like you have no desire to quit. It sounds like you have the companies best interest in sight and that you still have allies. Job titles are important for the human resource agendas (to be able to make competitive and fair working terms for like positions). Glitch with human resources is that they usually have no other idea about the position(s) put in front of them than what can be defined for them in some standard format like a dictionary. In other words that is just a shoe in with another company by matching their title/descriptions. Experience coupled with your knowledge will carry you through reality. Every job has its pros and cons. I say kudos to you for rolling with this for this long and being your age. I agree with whoever said make a plan... (I think he signed it Steve). Good job!

by billyboys May 7, 2005

I believe your "EGO" is too big to work for this company. I think you will be much happier running your own business.

57K for somebody with 2 year experience, you are "very" lucky.

In many companies, they won't allow staff to do side job. You should be glad that you are making extra money doing the logo, web and whatever you were doing.

I would suggest that you gain the experience working with the company for another year or two. Ask them to hire a couple of staff under you. Make you the IT Manager....Then in two years' time, you can try your luck with other bigger companies.

I don't have 2 years of experience. I've got 8 years of experience. Also - I am not making any money for doing the logo/web or whatever. That was the thing, they promised me I would but they haven't paid me for it.

by why me worry? May 8, 2005

I don't know of any company in this country that would hire a 12 year old to work for them. Simply knowing a technology does not count as "experience". Experience means professional work experience and I doubt that at age 12, you were in charge of your "company" and filing corporate tax returns.

by garion11 May 7, 2005

And you are 20? WOW? WTF? You are right, you should quit your job. Thats way too low for you and the company is taking advantage of you. Quit now and before you leave, please tell me the name of your company so I can *ahem* avoid them if I just happen to be looking for a job.

I guess I shouldn't have used the figure that I am making 96k/yr. I am not. I am making $57,600/year and on average (which WILL change once I hire someone within the next few months) enough on-call to make it $96k/yr. I will most likely be making 60-70k/yr with someone helping me. That is still really good for my age. But it's not just about the money, that's what most of you are wrong about. I know several other companies that have offered me 6 figure salaries and I have not taken them because I knew it wasn't the type of job that I wanted to do (I would be traveling all of the time). It has a lot to do with happiness. You have to learn to put up with the bullshit while still maintaining your sanity and happieness.

by garion11 May 8, 2005

First of all I must tell you that I am really jealous of you. Not because of the money that you are making..but because you have the maturity at 20 that I didn't have but I wish now that I had. At 20, I was working at Starbucks and going to college and thought I had the coolest job in the world (in some ways I did...free coffee!!!;).

I guess if its happiness is what you are seeking then figure out things that will make you happy...and getting some title isn't it. Psst..I have news for you...make up your own title if and when you go an interview. Director of IT Operations sounds good to me...

If that was me in your current position, I would ask to be given as much work as possible...because I am finding out that work is bringing me more happiness then anything right now...but thats just me. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

by tony hopkinson May 8, 2005

don't try dreaming, you'll probably wake up as the Sultan Of Brunei who's just celebrating in his harem after wining Microsoft off Bill in a game of poker.

I agree.

I agree and disagree. I agree because I should be thankful for what I have, and I am, but I disagree because the frustration I have is built on all of the small things that happen that i didn't write about. It's the day to day things that all add up.

by roger99a May 8, 2005

It's not "King of Spain" but there can be only one of those at a time.

by consultant js May 8, 2005

Think about it this way. You were first hired as what I would call an IT Administrator or Technical Specialist. In other words 'staff' not 'management'. You brought not executive skills but design skills to the table. Staff functions. So it makes sense that superiors would treat you in any negotiation as a staffer no matter what. The fact that you were asked to define your own job is a great opportunity. You unfortuately overextended yourself, and hopefully are now learning a great lesson that this is not a good idea. IT Director is a very dicey title.

If you want to be a Director (which is a position that reports to VP level individuals in normal non-startup, stable corporations) then you should not be performing technical functions directly. If on the other hand you like or want to continue in a technal role and not manage then do it, but don't attempt to be a manager - at least not at this company.

All of this points to a need to 'brand' yourself. This is very serious matter that most people, especially in IT, miss. Think about the company or companies you've worked for. Who were you in that company? Likely you were the 'go to guy' - but for what? The corporate vision? The infrastructure? The financial model? The sales model? Or perhaps the 'fix it when it breaks' go-to guy.

It's important to think too about your contribution versus your recognition in a company. You can contribute till you're blue in the face, but if no one recognizes that contribution sad to say it is time wasted. At least at that company, with that management team.

Bottom line: focus on who you are perceived to be now. Be consistent in presenting yourself. If you find you carry too much existing 'baggage', move to another company where you have the chance to move upward, IF that is your desire.

Finally, what do YOU REALLY WANT to DO? You're young (great) making $90K+ at that age (great) and defocused (not so great). So focus!

One last thought - INVEST! If you have the funds use them wisely and save. There will be times when it will seem no one wants you. You'll go through many transitions in your career. If you fail to build now for your retirement (which I know seems so, so far away - believe me it's not)
you'll wonder why you burned so much so soon later on in life.

Best of luck to you. I'm confident you have a bright future, IF you pay attention and FOCUS!

I agree. I am putting a good part of my paycheck into savings and have already purchased a new home which is (I believe) a good investment. I think my main problem is the fact that since I know so much I want to be the one to do it for the company. For example - the website. It's not in my job role but since I have so much experience in doing websites and intranets and because I work for the company I feel like I should be the one to do it when I really don't have that much time to commit to it.

by dr dij May 9, 2005

Talented people can sometimes do 'anything' but doesn't mean you can do 'everything'. (unless you build a cloning machine or robotic copy of yourself). If you have too many projects on the table you won't do any of them to quality you are capable of.

We have a website person here. I could probably do it but why burn myself out? I've got plenty of other stuff to do. You'll always find this at companies, if you're talented. It's good job security to be able to do many things.

I originally wanted to do the crystal reporting. They let an assistant in accounting do this. She sat on it for 7 months as she couldn't find the data in 6,700 fields of our ERP system, and wasn't real good at xtal anyway. They offered me the job and I was able to get results, extract data from complicated data structures in ways the built in reports didn't. Point is I didn't stress about it. They eventually figured out the person wasn't working out on that project.

Looks like you're getting stressed out by the vendor promises. Forget them. All sorts of bad things have happened in other posts on TR to people who sell services to a company while also working there. (such as non-payment of invoices, delays, etc). And you'd probably want to quit then.

They'll decide what they want to decide. Take your ego out of it, you'll be alot happier. If they want you to do this, and you really have the time to do it write, then OK, if not someone else will do it. If they want might ask for your input. There are millions of people who can do websites.

BTW, houses may be near bursting bubble stage. Save lots of money and don't take out any seconds.
Don't buy anything on credit cards or credit.
The base salary you mentioned is avg for network. Keep learning. Online courses are good; I have a subs to mindleaders web courses, books24x7.com is a good ref material source.
Learn about other business aspects, don't dig yourself a hole too deep in IT. You'll feel better if you have an oversite of related areas, and more likely to advance in future if you are the person to step back and get the big picture.

You'll be best off if you limit your OT to 10 hours max a week and enjoy your days off. Get out there and have a life, go places and do things, enjoy yourself. Otherwise your relationship will fail. As james bond said, you only live twice.

by garret` May 8, 2005

...after tax, I make $22K a year...thats right, $11 an hour. I've been in this job for 2 years full time, I dont have a title. I manage a network over 4 sites, plus built an Intranet, website with CMS, records managment, databse managment...manage every pc, server, phone, printer, fax, fridge, freezer and damned clock radio, not to mention user support, purchasing and budgeting... and youre complaining about being 20 and nearly on a 6 figures!? They pay people 100k to get on with their job, not whine about poor managment.

Technically, I only make $20/hr. However, since I am on call 24/7 I get another $15,600/yr. I know several 20yr olds making this much or more. However, I realize that I do have it very good. I am putting up with a lot of illegal things (illegal licensing and business practices) but I am working to get these corrected (and have been since I started) which is one of the things that frustrates me. Their original decision was that they don't care about licenses, just use the same license for every install. "If they audit us then we'll pay". I'm finally getting them to slowly start purchasing correct licenses.

by why me worry? May 8, 2005

and since you are in charge of IT, you will bear some of the blame for allowing it to happen

Do you really want a lawsuit and possible jailtime for their illegal actions? I would be very strict and shove the law in their face about software piracy and proper licensing practices.

I once refused a consulting assignment because a potential client wanted me to reuse the same 50 user license disk to setup 2 Netware servers at two remote sites. Not only will this create a broadcast storm of license violation messages on the servers, but I was not about to risk losing my CNE status and face possible prosecution by Novell for doing this, had Novell decided to conduct a surprise audit on the company.

Thanks a ton.

I have been very strict about it, and I am slammed with the same ol' "This is our company and our decision".

Tell them that if "their company" gets hauled into court on software piracy charges, that you don't want to be involved with this in any way. If they don't want to sign a legal document, I would advise ratting them out already to the software company and giving them a good wakeup call the likes they have never seen. They will be paying defense attorneys through the roof and they will not win in court, believe me. Do understand that once you burn this bridge, your job is history, but you will teach them proper business ethics in the process and a good wake up call about legal uses of software in the workplace. If it is "their company", let them go down with the ship when the sh*t hits the fan, but keep your own hands clean. Your situation is all too common, but do realize that if they get sued for software piracy and violating the EULA agreement, your ass is going going down with them as well unless you get them to sign an indemnification documet. Do know that they may play stupid and point fingers at you to save their own ass in the event of a lawsuit by saying, "Our IT guy never informed us that doing this was illegal", as I have seen this way too much in shady corporation. Get that legal disclaimer signed by them so that you can walk away with protection from prosecution. Another issue I have with your attitude towards this company is why you are being so generous and offering to help them, knowing that they will screw you out of proper compensation? This is not your daddy's company, yet you treat it like it is. If I were you, I would be less generous and more stringent about what I offer to them and what I don't. Do not stray from your job title description and certainly do not volunteer your time, because they will take you for a sucker and give you more and more work to do and not pay you for it, if that isn't already happening. I used to be like you, overmotivated and overenthusiastic, and although management may like that in you, they will use it against you to work you to death and not pay you accordingly.

by doodinit May 9, 2005

I have asked them to sign one and they won't.

tsk tsk..what a shame

sounds like they need a visit from the software police if you know what I mean

by black panther May 8, 2005

?That they lose their health to make money...
and then lose their money to restore their health.?

?To learn that two people can
look at the same thing
and see it differently.?

?To learn that a rich person
is not one who has the most,
but is one who needs the least.?

by sleepless in wa May 9, 2005

I've been in IT for 30 years and a Chrisitian for 1 year. For 29 years I would have given you the Maxwell Edison (Are you stupid) answer. Now I would say, sit down quietly and think through this rationally. Ignore your feelings about the people or try to look at it from their perspective. Are you sure you are 100% right in your view of things? You know exactly what is going on in your mind and motivations, but there is no way you can know the hearts of the others you work for or with.

If you are spiritual in any way, ask God what he thinks. It sounds like you are a very smart 'kid' and would be an asset to any organization. If I knew for sure you were telling the truth, I'd hire you. You have 1000's of options. Patience and wisdom young man.

please confine religious drivel to the thread about religion in the workplace

by softcorp.us May 9, 2005

"...many people view my age and don't think much of me..."

That is what I was meant by "good things sometimes take time". It appears that your objectives are to earn, learn, grow, and achieve position and status in your profession. The last part, position and status, requires the cooperation of the opinions of other people, like it or not. And, a lot of those people are not going to look past your age. That part takes time and patience, not effort.

-----Steve

by salamander May 9, 2005

I'm not going to say that it's all about the money, because it isn't.

I'm also not going to say that it's all about pursuing your bliss, because it isn't.

There's a balance to be had. People who work eighty hours a week and never get to relax never enjoy the fruits of their labor. At the other end of the spectrum, starving artists don't get to enjoy all life has to offer because of limited means.

One of the other posters says to give the situation time, and I agree. Don't set yourself up to burn out too quick. Having been an overachiever in my still-somewhat-impetuous youth, I and many others hit that wall in the mid-twenties in which you've achieved all that you set out to do and wondered: "What now? What does it all mean? Does it mean anything? Did I sell my soul? Is this all there is?" Starting over after that point can be quite the struggle, but it can be done.

I would suggest to you that you look to the future with a skeptical eye. Develop a five-year plan for yourself...what you'd like to be doing, learning, and being in five years, and work on the steps to achieve that. This plan should not only include professional goals. Took me a long time, but I've finally understood that most work serves to enable the rest of one's life. It is not the alpha and the omega, though it is a good number of the letters in between.

And as for the money...best advice I can give you is keep your lifestyle under control. Though it sounds boring, save as much as you can. Without knowing your geography, I would think that someone in your shoes could easily save one-third or more of his annual income, and still have a quite decent lifestyle. You never know when the floor's going to drop out from under you, and the best advice I can offer is to be prepared. Always approach a job with the assumption that it could be gone tomorrow. This is a good time in your life to develop an understanding of contingency planning. Things may be going well now, but you never know what the future holds. Try living on that $60-70K, sock the rest of what you're making now into savings, and see if you can do it. You're then better mentally prepared to take a step down, when you find the right opportunity.

If you have the opportunity to take a lower-paying, less stress job that you might enjoy more, but all means, consider it. But consider it within the larger context of your life, and finding that balance.

by doodinit May 9, 2005

Your absolutely right. I have always been putting together 1,5 and 10yr plans for work however I have never thought about doing the same thing for myself. The only thing I do is say "Hmm... Where would I like to be in 5 years?"... But I haven't actually thought that much about it.

by clyde.graham May 9, 2005

I can understand the frustration, but wow 96K? My situation is very similar. I am a one man IT shop and support 235 users, 120 machines, 11 servers, exchange, security, etc..... I fight tooth and nail for every upgrade to be had, and sometimes wonder if its worth the struggle with a 55k salary. I also hold the MCSE cert on nt4 and win2k plus the mcsa on win2003. I also hold the CISSP cert. I have over 8 years experience in IT as well, plus years of management experience and have been self employed for years as well. I do their webdesign and upkeep as well. Basically if a computer is involved....I do it.
I also work 50 to 60+ hours a week and am always on call 24-7-365. I have gotten calls at Disney world....

by clyde.graham May 9, 2005

There was no "religous dribble" there, just wise advise. Take your time and use caution....Choose things wisely.

We are talking about work ethics, not religion

by jbaker May 9, 2005

Nobody cares that YOU personally dislike all Christians. And just because someone espouses a Christian point of view does not make it wrong or even off topic.

by black panther May 9, 2005

so was I - i have no religion!

by sleepless in wa May 11, 2005

In an effort to keep my original response pithy, I suggested he seek God's wisdom. If this impatient, wet behind the ears, young man finds wisdom in Allah, philosophy, meditation, or a bottle of fine wine, so be it. Sorry if I offended you or anyone. I have found that trying to make it on one's own is a recipe for disaster. Sorry, I guess I need a crutch and am not afraid to admit it.

by stress junkie May 9, 2005

Religion can be the foundation of ethics. Ethics in the workplace are a legitimate topic.

And...

The expression is "with all due respect", not "with all do respect". FYI. LSMFT.

I don't dislike all Christians. I dislike the ones that have to shove their religion into every aspect of every conversation.

by eddie.albert May 9, 2005

First and foremost, I would forever more STOP mentioning your age. Capability is what you need to talk about. If you want to brag to other 20 year olds tell them your age. At work if someone asked your age I would tell them "I do not support nor condone Age Discrimination in any form."

They can not pay you what you are worth because of your age.

Now the other question are your complaints valid. I would say YES if all of your listed facts are true.

Company 'A' is paying $500k for their IT support before you get there.

They hire you and offer you 1/10 what they had to pay to do everything they paid $500k for the year before? What kind of horse hockey is that?

Bottom line I would tell anyone; If you are very happy in your job. Refresh your resume and post it at USAJOBs or AmericasJobBank and find out exactly how happy you are.

If you are doing a good job; your boss will not want to let you go. If you are like your job and are being paid what you are worth you will not leave your company.

If you are not happy, not being paid what you are worth POST YOUR RESUME, take your leave time to do some interviews and find out how happy you really are.

What I am saying is the Greener Grass syndrome can go on forever. But I would also NEVER tell anyone to sit passive in a chair not act and rot in their current position.

Business Maturity is not age related; butt the perception people have about you can directly relate to how much you are getting paid.

It is a fact that people who dress poorly get paid less. I am not saying designer labels.

If you are 20 and do not LOOK like a director of (what must be) a Multi-Million Dollar company why would that company give you the title.

In a purified world you might like to say or believe something different but the truth is if you look the part all you have to do then is prove to them you can do the job. If you don't look the part you will be challenged by every new person you meet. /ALE

by doodinit May 9, 2005

You've got no idea how much I agree. I have been putting together my resume lately and haven't had the chance to post it anywhere yet, but I sure have been thinking about it.

As far as the way I look, I am one of the only ones in the company who always wears a collared shirt and tie with nice pants. The only time I am not dressed up is if I am doing an install or know I will be on my hands and knees all day.

by dc_guy May 9, 2005

The shirt and pants are okay anywhere, but you're drawing attention to yourself by wearing a necktie. They are way out of fashion in most companies in most regions these days except in some executive positions. Our CEO doesn't even wear one.

That's just one example of the little things you might be doing wrong that you don't even realize. Perhaps you look like you're trying too hard.

There's another thread on this board arguing over the benefits of having older workers on the payroll. You might do well to read it, it covers the advantages and disadvantages of both age and youth.

I don't care how much you know about IT, at your age you have a lot to learn about life. Perhaps you are remarkably mature for your age, but it's difficult to prove that. Most managers don't want to promote young people too quickly because even if they know the job and the company they may not have the wisdom and social skills to handle a crisis.

Regardless of what's right or wrong, it doesn't look like you're going to get what you want from your current employer, at least not within the time frame you consider reasonable. That leaves you with exactly two choices: keep what just about everyone who's logged in here thinks is a really sweet deal; or bail and see if you can do better elsewhere.

It's that simple. Complaining to your boss or to us isn't going to change anything. In fact complaining to your boss will work against you, nobody wants people complaining to them.

Forget about your title, it's of no importance whatsoever. Keep your eye on your future. You're fortunate to have such a high income so early in life. Manage your investments well so you won't be so dependent on a salary as you grow older. That way you'll be able to choose jobs you like instead of jobs that pay well.

Sure, the real estate bubble will pop as it does periodically, but it always comes back. Keep yourself liquid so you can ride out the downturns and snap up some cheap, distressed properties. Will Rogers is still right: "Buy land, they ain't makin' any more of the stuff."

You might think about the long term prospects for the economy of any one nation. There are many people on this planet who have already outlived their countries and find themselves starting over. I diversify the location of my real estate around the country so a big natural disaster, the collapse of one industry, or politics won't wipe me out, since I don't have the time you do to ride out a depression. If I were younger I'd diversify it into other countries so I wouldn't be making a long term bet on this one.

by hdrconsultant May 9, 2005

Well with all the advice and comments you?ve received in this post you probably figured out that you are in a very unique position for a person your age. I definitely have to agree with Steve when he says you need to learn patience. At the same time you need to gain the experience from a business point of view. I think you are too concerned with titles, titles sometimes do not fit on a person?s paycheck. You could be the ?Managing US Region Director of Information Technology Services? sounds impressive, but only make 35k a year, get my point?

I think you should focus on the business experience you can gain in your position since you seemed to have the technical knowledge pretty much covered. Managing an IT department whether you are a Director or CIO or Manager requires not only to make critical technical decisions but also sound business deciscions as well. I think you lack the business experience from what I can gather on your post, you focus on all the technical duties and tasks but not once mention any responsibilities from a business stand point.

This is how a I can determine this, first you never, ever bring any personal venture or business you might be involved with in to the workplace, it creates something we all come to know as ?CONFLICT OF INTEREST? besides that?s what they hired you for to eliminate outsourcing, and if it is permitted in your case make sure you have a written agreement that states you can do this. Second I think you are taking your bosses decisions personally and you get angry when they don?t do what you wanted them to do.

Welcome to the common IT workplace. Your bosses are looking at you not as a business person but as very well paid technical resource and you can?t blame them considering your age that?s why they are asking what you think your title should be and when you said you wanted to be a Director they said no that implicates business experience. My advice is to take the opportunity to learn the business of IT in the real world, real environment. Gain your experience through patience and making sure your learn how to make good decisions. Develop a good reputation among your peers and within the industry. Technical knowledge a dime a dozen, good managers hard to find, good technical managers, very rare.

Good luck to you.

by hdrconsultant May 9, 2005

Good luck to you.