I've been fired twice

Have you considered writing a book on your experiences? I don't know if there is a market, but it couldn't hurt to try. I was released from a contract for using "mad scientist stuff" in web design, the term my manager used for any technology created since 1970. To give you an idea, he believed that relational databases where an ?untried technology? that wasn?t used in business because they were too difficult to understand. His second favorite rant was that the web was a passing fad and that once upper management ?saw the light? everything would go back to COBOL and CICS on mainframes.

For me writing a book was therapeutic and while I?m not getting rich the checks help too. Also, it was a real kick to get an email from a former co-worker about the manager?s reaction to seeing my book on the co-worker?s desk. Revenge is sweet!

Want a real weird case, back in the early 1990s I applied for a job in another state, got interviewed the job. Six weeks later got told I got it. Two weeks after that I started.

Day 1 I arrive and get told that the Section was restructured last week, and now instead of working direct to the Section Head, I'm working to a sub-section head. At the welcome interview with the Section head (she'd been on the selection panel) she tells me that I was appointed against her wishes, and she'll be glad when I move on.

Day 2, I find out that the restructure was done so she wouldn't have to have any daily contact with me. I also find out that when she took over 18 months earlier there'd been 5 men and 7 women in the section. She'd hounded the men into leaving, mostly transfers. Also four of the women left the unit due to her behaviour. She'd recommended another applicant, a woman, but the Human resources people over ruled her as the recommended candidate didn't have all the required skills, I was the only applicant who did. The appointment had been reviewed twice before I was told of getting the job. All that information really made my day.

3 months later, a woman, working on a temporary contract complains about sexual harassment. She'd been getting explicit letters and flowers at home, claimed it was like my writing on documents at work, and quoted three specific incidents when I'd physically, and verbally harassed her at work. She was extremely specific in her complaints with times, dates, actions, and the fact that no one else was present at the times. She was a temp for 4 weeks while my usual assistant took her annual leave. The complaint was lodged on the Monday of her last week.

We worked in a large office, just the two of us. However, we had the unit fax, photocopier, and file system. People from the whole organisation (about 100 people) were in and out every minute, it was very rare for the to be just the two of us there alone.

She gets another 6 weeks employment in the area, while I get 6 weeks paid administrative leave, as they conduct an investigation.

Start of the investigation, the Section head and Branch head call me into a meeting and push some hand written letters at me to look at. Using a pencil I turn them around to read them, I didn't touch them myself. THEN they tell me these are the letters the complainant had received and they're waiting for the police to arrive and take them away for forensic to see what they can find.

In her recommendation for a full investigation, the Section Head said she found my use of pencil to avoid touching the letters showed that I was involved. A full investigation was held, and the investigating officer found "That on the balance of probability I had sexually harassed the woman."

Now for the fun stuff:

The organisation was spread out over 3 floors of an office building, access to all floors, and several sections within, is restricted and you have to use a swipe card and pin number to pass through various check points. All these entries are logged in the security access logs.

In my presentation of evidence to the investigating officer, I closely examined the claims made.

1. I walked in a provocative manner - at the time I walked with a limp, basketball injury.

2. Date and time of first physical contact occurred on a day when I was not at work, and had the receipt from the doctor I was seeing that same morning, two and half hours travel time away.

3. Date and time of second physical contact was when fax and copier logs show two other female staff were in the room, complaint said no one else was, and the unit's security system shows me as being on another floor in a storage room for the hour either side of it.

4. The date and time of the third physical contact is on a morning when I'm at work in the office, and the complainant doesn't show up until two hours after the stated time. Security logs show it.

5. I prove that the documents she says are evidence of my writing are documents handwritten by my regular assistant.

6. The last day of the investigator's interviews with us, the complainant tells her that the local police have arrested her neighbour for the letters and the flowers.

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Despite all this, the investigator, a friend of the Section head, finds it was likely I'd harassed the woman, and should be dismissed.

Many of the other female staff are amazed at this. Some said that they knew I'd be found responsible as it was a witch hunt, the section head was out to get me, as she hated all men and wouldn't have a man working for her. And the investigator was the same.

I appealed her decisions, it takes nine months for the appeal to be dealt with, administratively. Final decision is that the file is closed, sealed and nothing on my record. The eight week leave is not deducted from my leave record.

While this is all going on, I got fed up and applied for other jobs, and won a promotion to a sister organisation. I started at that job before they'd finished the original investigation. The new organisation reviewed all the evidence of the case and wondered why they were bothering with it.

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Now ready for the really big laugh about this whole piece of crud.

The organisation I worked for, where this happened, was responsible for administering certain legislation, and for conducting investigations and hearings into breaches of those laws - the Sexual Harassment Laws, Discrimination Laws, and Equal Employment Opportunity Laws.

Many of their decisions during the 1990s were appealed, and a lot were overturned on appeal by higher courts. gee I wonder why, could it have been to do with the bigotry of some of the investigators?

And yes, I still have all the paperwork from the case.

I worked for a small copier company where the dispatcher accused me of harrasing her or
whatever, disagreeing is more like it. See I really did not like driving back and forth when a better route was available. So just move on, I did and I am so much happier now, this is the first time in a long time I even thought about that crappy place!

Hey kindred spirit. Did you bring an assault rifle into the office like I did? Man. People just get all bent out of shape when you point one of those at them. Well if they can't take a joke then who needs them?

For some strange reason I think that clarifying details are missing from your account of these injustices.

And what are you willing to do to get it?

When bad things happen to good people, we are challenged in two specific way (others too, but these are the biggies).

The first challenge is functional- what do I do? The answer is surprisingly simple. You do the next logical thing. First and foremost, you need to survive.

The second challenge is emotional- how do I get on with things when I am feeling vulnerable, scared, sh*t kicked, and generally beat up? The answer is, again, surprisingly simple. You do it.

I've been there, albeit in a different way. I went from being a valued employee to laid off to homeless and in major need of major surgery and treatment to survive. I spent a lot of time learning to pick my battles.

It is amazing what you are capable of when you become willing to let certain things go. One of the things I see you needing to let go of is "This isn't fair". You're right- it isn't. And that is about all the time you can spend on the subject.

Every single second that you spend on the issue validates THEM. And let's face it, the best revenge is living well.

Do not try to get justice in this from the courts. no matter how good your case is, in the end, you will pay. You will become poison to any other company you apply to. Should it work that way? No. Does it? You bet.

LET IT GO. That is the greatest gift that you can give yourself. Let go of the things that are not contributing to your success. Live well and be proud of yourself for doing so.

In the end of my situation, I was able to survive the disease, find work, and get on with the business of living. And living well.

Choose to live fully. Choose to let go of the past and concentrate on what new adventure awaits you. Choose the best revenge- Live well!

You are in my prayers and I hope to see you post again- that you are past the nonsense that has plagued you and are moving forward.

...here too. I made a post completely unrelated to religion but because I wrote the word "god" in it, some nutcases freaked out about it. In this day and age where everyone is afraid of getting blown up by Muslims, I am more afraid of the whacko Christians.... and considering their track record, you know with the whole Salem thing, the Crusades, etc etc.

Back to your post...If you lived here in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia you could have easily sued the crap out of both companies and won.

Dear Carmen,
fully sympathizing with what happened to you, my wife lost her job as Associate Prof. is Psychology in a Greek University, when she was accused (during her promotion assessment to permanent Associate Prof.) of plagiarism in one of her published books, which was already citing hundreds (literally!) of bibliographical references!!!
That was last year. Ministry of Education returns the decision back to the Univ. as an illegally based allegation, which was formed in her absence and she was never notified of the allegations, prior to the board meeting (where she was conveniently absent, as was on Sabbatical). The board convenes again this year and still decides negatively on the basis of same accusations (only rephrased) and despite evidence (all my wife's books are submitted to each board member separately). My wife is currently under depression medication and, thank God, she is much better nowadays. The way things are in Greece she will never be able to teach at a greek University any more.
Both you and her have to let go and move on with your lives. As one of the people that replies to your initial posting said, "The best revenge is to go on and live well". I pray to God that she will find it in her heart to let go and find happiness in her new job, whatever that may be. I hope you do too, eventually.
Gos bless you

On a previous job, a female subordinate was questioned about our relationship. Executive Management had decided to purge the department (their prerogative, no matter other implications)and was looking for grounds to terminate each of us. Unfortunately, she became upset and quit, but there was nothing improper in our relationship.

Harassment charges are misused by employees and management, and legitimate complaints ignored, so often that the accusation is almost meaningless. Personal relationships kept outside the office are not the office's business. Keep personal and professional lives separated, then at work stay polite, stay professional, and never give them an excuse. Then find a hobby that relieves the tension - I like target shooting.

Carmen
You need to take a step back from this.
Your rant does you no service. It sounds unintelligent, it reads extremely unorganized and it appears very one-sided. You point out a whole slew of wrongs against you and posture yourself as being blameless. Yet you admit to violence and possibly a sexual relationship in your first employment. Work relationships are always dangerous and you take whatever risks come when you engage in them. Violence in the workplace is never going to win you any battles, you should know that.
In my experience, cases like these are never one way streets and yours certainly sounds like you have contributed to the situation with your own actions and responses. In my opinion, you need to grow up and realize that life is not fair, but how you experience life is determined very much by how you respond to this unfairness.
I don't think you're being honest with yourself about your own responsibility in this stream of events. Lawyers are often money hungry scabs (sorry lawyers!) and that you can't find a single one to represent you gives me the impression that you really don't have anywhere near the case you represent yourself as having in your rant. Take a long hard honest look at these events and ask yourself what you might have done differently at every step of the way. I'm not saying you weren't wronged, but it certainly appears that you've done little help yourself by holding onto the anger and resentment and turning it to hate for those around you.

Following a common theme here from other posts...
From your rant I can give you no sympathy or advice.
It isn't easy to fire someone in todays world. There is way too much left out of this story for me to come to any other conclusion than you "don't work and play well with others"

I commmend you on your attitude, and do not let that bother you. But no one can see by ever looking at you that you have one breast. They can see the other things about you and that's why people undergo the scrutiny that is prevelent in this society.

I commend you on your strong will and determination, but I don't have any intent for coworkers to drive my relationship life like it was in a shambles before I met any of them.

Cheers to you.. TiggerTwo.

From everything I've read, that being - your words, I would have fired you, too!

You certainly don't come across as a profesisonal. Furthermore, getting violent on the job is certainly legitimate grounds for termination - regardless of why you may have gotten violent. I would hope that someone your age would know that there is never an excuse for getting violent in the workplace (or anywhere else, really).

You don't deny threatening the 'religious lady', just her team? Well, that is also grounds for termination.

Furthermore, Florida is an "at will" state. They don't need a reason to fire you. And this was not discrimation. This was brought on my your inability to control your responses to their accusations. It was brought on by your unprofessional behavior.

You're not being persecuted. Get over it.

I had hard times as a computer programmer/analyst. Working intensely with ones mind puts one in a very vulnerable state.
I became a job Shopper (consultant, vendor, temporary worker or whatever). It was very lucrative. I made enough to keep me happy and usually worked about 7 months a year.

I hear a lot of stories all the time about bogus harassment claims and how companies are "wacko" about it nowadays. I'm not about to say that there aren't really bad examples of wacko responses by companies.

- HOWEVER -

I think that these bad examples are usually the only ones being talked about (because the people are outraged at being screwed over by the policies), so it makes it SEEM like sexual harassment policies are a bad thing or always over-applied. More often than not, the REAL scenarios where sexual harassment happens are kept hush-hush. Women and men who are victims of it usually DON'T like to talk about it, since it is often embarassing or humiliating for them. Also, employers sometimes see them as troublemakers, even though it may not have been their fault, so they are less likely to hire these people if they talk about it. (There are other reasons, too, but these are common ones.)

So in the end, you have a few people scattered here and there that get outraged at being screwed over by these policies, and so they make a big statement about it. Mistakes do happen, and when they do, it really does suck, as Carmen pointed out. But don't be deceived into thinking that sexual harassment is just some ultra-radical feminist tools used by man-hating women or some ridiculous stereotype like that. They DO serve a purpose and protect people every day, even if you don't hear about it.

One more thing - you mentioned that some religious fanatic heard you say "God damnit" and got you fired. I'll be honest and say that that's probably not the real reason they fired you. Otherwise, you could easily sue them for wrongful termination since the company can't discriminate using religion, and thus cannot use religion in making company policies that cater to a specific religion. (If you were on the phone with a customer and were swearing at them, that would be different, since that deals with the quality of customer care, not religion)

The termination would probably have to deal with the threatening, but it's impossible for us to know what really happened without being there. Nothing personal, but EVERYONE is innocent in their own stories (I know I'm guilty of it) - it's really hard to be objective when you have something to lose. It's possible that this person was over-sensitive and mistakenly THOUGHT she was being threatened. Who knows? But just in case, I'd recommend not basing a view of religion (or any other important part of life) on the actions of a few bad apples.

I have always dressed appropriately in the workplace. I don't have the body type to walk around in provacative clothing. My personality may have gotten me in trouble more than anything. Although being mixed, in my household, I wasn't brought up to be prejudice either. Management was never a professional goal of mine in that industry and there are plenty of non-management IT people. 12+ years is when this started.

Thanks for you input. I developed that self-esteem issue after being bullied. Never had it before. Friends prior to this situation could attest to that.

You are not alone. Before harrassment rules, other causes were used unjustly. It hurts a LOT to be accused wrongly of harrassment, because it's an accusation of inhuman behavior.
The advice you've been give to let go of this is the only way out of your depression. Your writing shows you are not distanced enough from this.
Here is the way I "healed" myself from a similar situation:
Have faith - you have had a lot of years in your career where this did not happen, which proves that the majority are not out to get you. When you can, "own" the part you did play, and figure out new strategies for recognizing and dealing with similar "no win" situations.
None of this will happen until you admit that this traumatic event is not the norm, and that the majority of people in business want to help you and help themselves look good for hiring you.

You said, "I have one breast. I will lose the remaining breast early next year. If you don't think I FEEL like a side show freak, think again."

Since you started it, during my short time of stumbling around this website I feel that have to ask you a question or two.

Do your breasts define who you are as a person? Why? They're mostly fatty tissue aren't they?

Why will you "FEEL like a side show freak"? Isn't that a choice to feel that way? Meaning no disrespect but I'm curious as to why you'd WANT to feel that way.

It seems to me that you are making a courageous decision that doesn't arise out of a medical emergency.

If it was an emergency you and the doctors wouldn't wait to have it taken off.

So my last question to you is is it vanity or as respectfully as possible just WTF is going on with you?

To win kudos with the boys. Believe me I didn't bring the toy stories to work to the boys. This ridiculous child needed new friends.

Anyway, that's a dead issues, it's a building with over a 1000 people who work there. I don't think toys were the issues, more like human beings.

Had a anxiety attack passing a cubicle office setting, so I'm working on other issues besides sex-related things.

Thanks for your response.