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Need direction/advice....

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by cp7212

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I moved to a small town to pick up an IT job, which I have been in for 1 1/2 years. I was out of school for a year and a half, doing nothing in my field except for helping my friend do a few consulting jobs. I have an Associates' degree in Comp Sci/Networking, A+ cert, and MCP. The job I have is desktop support, a far, far cry from networking. I have been passed over for three networking jobs. Two times I wasn't even given the benefit of an interview by my manager and one time the other job wasn't even posted, just granted internally. My co-worker is the other half of the problem. She is considered "cute" amongst the male management. I think they need to get to a real city to see what cute is. Anyway, just recently she was doing a job that had high priority. She had two days to do it. She blew it off, emailed me on the second day after I went home, saying that she couldn't complete it and would I finish it. I come in the next morning and find emails blaming me for not having it done! I sent my manager and the production managers the email that she sent me saying she didn't do it. My manager sent an email to the production managers "apologizing for my behavior". This is not the first time something like this has happened. About six months ago, my manager made her my "boss". She has no education or certs, just seniority. I couldn't believe it. This is my only real experience to go on a resume. From what I read, the IT field is not on a hiring streak. My director told me that they don't really want to move me out of my site, because "I'm more valuable down here". I have learned some client-based wireless and can troubleshoot our wireless system pretty well. Which, by the way, my co-worker (boss) cannot. My first manager was awesome and I really enjoyed my job. He made what he told me, a lateral move, because he didn't like the office politics. My director, who has saved me from a lot of what I have described, is leaving in January of 2005. So the cream has separated from the milk and the milk is spoiling. I can't believe I worked two jobs and went to school for this. Has anyone ever gone through this that can offer some advice? I would really appreciate it. Happy holidays.

39 replies

by prefbid ii

I think I know how you feel. My first job out of the military was really messed up. I kept asking myself, "is this the way all jobs are? Is this what corporate IT work is like?" Along the road I have met a lot of people who have had similar experiences. The simple and plain answer is, "no that is not what all companies are like." In fact, I suspect most companies are much nicer places to work.

You have two options. 1) Find a different job or 2) Tough it out. To tough it out, you'll have to do some confrontations -- primarily with your boss and HR. You need to let them know what you believe is going on. You have to be polite, respectful, and CALM when you do it -- otherwise it will blow up in your face.

To move to another job -- you just have to find one. Put a positive spin on your resume as far as what you have learned so far. If anyone asks why you left your last job -- tell them the truth, "I'm looking for growth opportunities". Don't ever mention any disagreements you have with your current supervisors.

I personally recommend the new job, especially since you only have 1.5 years with the company. If you stay, the politics won't get better just because you win a battle here or there.

by a_dangerous_mind

It's true that there are nicer companies to work for. It sounds to me like there's an old boys' network still entrenched where you are, and usually that situation means more personality based politics than you might find elsewhere.

While IT isn't hiring anyone who can put an acronym on his or her resume anymore, certifications + experience are still worthwhile. In addition, I recommend Martin Yate's book Knock 'Em Dead for a job search. It's a worthwhile read not only because of the techniques, but also the actual EMPOWERMENT that comes with knowing how to conduct a professional job search for what works for you.

It's also possible to be in IT and have a life outside IT as well. There are times you do need to network and improve your skills outside your normal job parameters, but, if you will pardon the cliche, take the time to smell the roses as well. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy . . . All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy . . .All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy . . .

by cp7212

Thanks for the "shining" recommendation. I received a Waldenbooks certificate for Xmas, I'll check it out. Thanks again.

by oz_media

Unfortunately I can only see that they are hiring based on personailty fit as many companies do these days. I amnot saying you don't have a good personality or social skills in anyway, just that perhaps YOUR personality doesn't fit THIER people.

THis is exactly WHY companies hire on personality fit more than certs these days. MOst IT tasks can be learnt reasonably quick these days by people with a good working knowledge of computers. Unfortunately, certs just don't have the same effect as they used to. I remember a time when ONLY a certified tech would know how or what to do, with it becoming such a widely used field now, most people are hired based on proven ability (seniority) or potential and personality as opposed to paperwork.

You may find the opposite happened at another company, SHE would stay put and YOU get promoted ahead of others with more experience, it's just the FIT that counts.

I would suggest getting into a networking group (not servers but PEOPLE networking). THis is where most positions come fromas a result of personality fit and if you are picked up THAT way, your combined skills and personality will see you rise to the top.

I'd be putting irons in the fire and gettng the feelers out on the market. A networking group is a great way to meet potential employers without HR being involved, you just sell yourself. Send out some resumes and get a feel for how things are accepted there, CHANGE your resume repeatedly until you get the desired results. REALLY work on your cpver letter, explain what you have done to help companies you have worked for, instead of listing certs and systems.

Sell yourself, you will do much better then the girl who was promoted in the long run.

Good luck and keep your chin up, it's rarely YOU that's the problem, it is most often someone else that simply shines brighter in their eyes.

by dafe2

Ithoughtitwasjustme.merryxmasmonami.

ps

Iknowyousaidparagraphbutiwasenjoyingthis.

smallthingsiguess

by oz_media

That's not very constructive, Chad. :(

We have often tossed around the importance of grammar here and found that, due to the diverse culture of the peers on TR, spelling and grammar have always been ignored. They have added the edit bar though, for quick typists with poor keyboarding skills like myself.

This is a forum, not an informal application/presentation process.

Cut the guy some slack, he's actually got a fair issue to discuss and stated it quite well. This COULD be a decent thrread and I am sure one you could offer some worthwhile input on.

Have a safe and happy holiday!

OM

by apotheon

If I find that I can't be bothered to read something because it's too obtusely presented for me to muddle through it, I figure that the person posting the mess might benefit from a little bit of critique of posting style. If he/she learns to break paragraphs, all is well. If not, nothing changes, including the fact that I (and others like me) won't offer any help because I (and others like me) won't read the post.

The title of the post looked like it might indicate a discussion I'd like to be a part of, but I'm not interested enough to sort through a post with no paragraph breaks at all. It's that simple. Spelling and grammar can be overlooked sometimes, but a complete lack of paragraph breaks in a post this long is a bigger problem. Reading someone's post shouldn't be [b]hard work[/b].

If edited so that it's more readable, I'd be more than happy to contribute. In fact, someone else with a paragraph breaks problem edited his post appropriately earlier today, and I immediately (upon noticing this) read the post and responded in some depth. That, of course, was because the post was suddenly readable without straining my eyes.

by aceskaraoke

If the poster is new to TechRepublic he/she might not realize that posts are easier read if broken into sections and paragraphs.

apotheon didn't criticize spelling or grammar really, just made a suggestion for easier reading.

Easier reading means more replies, and conceivably more help

I got the impression that the guy may actually be a girl. I always try to stay gender neutral unless I'm sure.

Oh, and my 2 cents is for the poster to find better employment, for one thing the 'experience' you're being allowed to get is peripheral at best to your goal employment.

You can probably also count on your current employer not necessarily giving you a glowing recommendation. I'm not saying they'll say bad things about you, but, if they have it in their minds that you're a 'problem' employee, it may not be what they say as much as how they say it or what they don't say.

It sounds like all the GOOD people you knew have already seen the writing on the wall and left. The fact that they've been there longer than you and given up means you can just cash in on their learning experience early.

Be a sensible rat, get off that sinking ship before you've wasted any more of your valuable time.

Good Luck

by oz_media

If you don't have the patience or don't want to take time to read a post, you simply don't have to.

I don't think it's the posters DUTY to provide you with an entertaining read.

If you are interested in what he wasnts to say, he is welcoming your input. If you are not, c'est la vie.

Some people simply don't know how to structure a thought or they may think while they type in run-on sentences, they are still entitled to share their thoughts though without being corrected or expected to 'do better or you're not interested'.

I just got a bad vibe from your reply, and the guy who replied to it.

If the poster had said he couldn't understand why he wasn't promoted as a journalist, well...some input like that may help.

The format and gramar was irrlevant to the topic, that's all.

I have been making a concious effort to accept people here because at one time I would not have let that go myself, people come here for help and opinions about their issues, not to get grammar lessons or apply for a job.

by dafe2

It was I who replied and I hope you did not missunderstand. (Bad Vibe?)

In fact I thought your (original reply) said it all.

Speaking for myself, I read the post, your (favorites) answer was sufficient, "apotheons" reply (struck) me as hillarious (sorry) but no ill will was intended. As a matter of fact I was actually poking fun at myself...if you had of read my last line.

No offence meant.

by apotheon

Who said it was anyone's duty to get anyone to pay attention? I was just offering advice.

You're getting a little too politically correct in your old age, Oz.

by oz_media

NO I am not being PC, it is not an equality issue just an issue of irrelevance.

As for duty, I was just reflecting the impression left by saying you would reply if it was easier to read.

This guy is in a spot I see many people falling in and it's no fun, very depressing and really makes you begin doubting yourself. I figured a little positive input was warranted that's all, no biggie.

by apotheon

I don't see anything wrong with answering him if you can muddle your way through a long post with no paragraph breaks. I'm just unlikely to put the time in, personally, and I'm not shy about letting people know that.

by dafe2

I just re-read that post. And I think what we have here are two females....ggggrrreaaaarrrrrrr

Seriously though, I agree with these two guys you really should pack up & go.

I think if you stay for too much longer you may be in for a bigger cat fight than you've got on your hands know. That could lead to professional damage. If you are female & the stuff my wife tells me is even close to true.......wow.

Now on the other hand...if you stay...tickets...become available...(Just kidding)

Good luck & Happy Holidays to you as well cp7212.

by oz_media

I generally salways say he/she, his/her etc. on TR, I just didn't feel it was relevant in this case and therefore just skipped the politically correct front slashes.

Plus the comments about going to another city to see what cute is leads me to believe this is a male, obviously remembering cute girls from somewhere else.

I think a girl would have skipped that line.

by aceskaraoke

Poster did say she was considered cute by male management, not just management.

The poster said they sould go to a real city to see what cute really is, which is something a guy or girl would write. However, being a guy myself, I would've felt compelled to directly voice my opinion about how cute she was or wasn't.

I.E.

I don't see what's so cute about her, or
I can see their point, or
She is pretty, but she can't do her job.

even that wouldn't necessarily indicate gender, guess I'll just continue to play it safe lacking confirmation either way.

by dafe2

"She is considered "cute" amongst the male management"

I thought that was an unusual way to set the stage. Something another woman (A young girl) would point out.

Normally a guy would use other "terms" if he thought a womans sexuality was helping in her climb to the top so to speak. Really didn't "read" the post the first time for reasons already discussed but when
AcesKaraoke mentionned his take on what was said it kind of "fit" the situation "the person" talks about including some of the things that are bothering said "person". Then again.....you never know.

by cp7212

Dude, I am not a girl. I do not usually ask for help. I just posted a reply to the other posts correcting my grammar. I thought this was a site for professionals.

Why can't you just answer the question without trying to psychoananlyze it? Is this the way all of the posts are handled here? Oh, and I hope I am breaking this up all right.

The way I see it, if this was a cat fight, then I guess I would have to be a lesbian or something. Maybe that could be another thread for you or something. This is p*ssing me off more than helping me.

If this is what I am looking forward to in the rest of the IT field, I may as well stay where I am at.

Oh yeah, and happy holidays as well to you, dafe2.

by cp7212

I didn't reply to this post right away because I work all day with computers. I come home to my PC and I sneer at it. I don't check this site every day.

I just like some time away from the computer. I don't go out with my colleagues because they like to talk about work away from work.

Give it a rest, I say. Maybe that's why I don't fit in. I do have a life away from work.

by apotheon

Nobody intended to insult you. Don't take it so personally.

Your absence while others responded to a [b]discussion[/b] post left us with too much time to speculate and discuss. In the absence of further responses from the OP (you), we ended up discussing other things here. Many here at TR tend to be casual and chummy with each other to some degree, and we end up bantering here and there, particularly in threads where after the first couple of helpful responses there isn't any further guidance from the OP.

Note the emphasis above on the word "discussion". There are two places you can post questions here at TR. One is in discussions, and the other is in the "Technical Q&A" section. If you want a formal treatment of the matter, with rigidly controlled response mechanisms and a serious treatment of the matter at every step, where nobody's allowed to have off-topic discussion, I recommend heading over to TQ&A instead of posting your question in the discussion center. I recommend this not as a chastisement, but as some helpful advice. If that's what you want, that's where to best get it.

I will reiterate this, because it's important: Nobody is trying to insult you. If there's any insulting going on, it's probably good-natured ribbing between those of us who have gone around on various issues with each other at TR before. You're welcome to continue to make use of the TR discussion forum, contributing ideas and asking for others' opinions, and I'm sure we'd be happy to have another voice contributing.

This is the Internet, though: You can't have a skin too thin. Sometimes, something meant without malice might at first glance look hostile if you're inclined to take things personally. A good rule of thumb might simply be to imagine that the speaker behind every post is smiling. If it's possible for someone to be smiling when saying something in such a way that it's not insulting, you should go with that interpretation unless proved otherwise.

I'm going to double-check your original post to see if it's more readable to me, and if so, I'll see if I have anything useful to contribute.

Merry Chrismahanukwanzaaka, Solstice, Festivus, Yule, Feast of Fools, or whatever.

by dafe2

No comments where directed at "you".

BTW - If you carefully read my post, I did answer the question ( So did two others ).

There's a BIG difference between a nudge and an flame. For example, had I said "don't get your panties in a knot" instead of "relax".

No one in this thread meant any "offence", we where just jiber jabering ammongst ourselves.

Read Apotheon - He explains it better than I.

by apotheon

Everyone is posting all this stuff, but the OP hasn't said anything after the original post. Is he/she even reading this stuff?

by oz_media

Gender isn't the issue here at all though, this segue is pretty irrelevant.

Let's just say IT then and be done with IT.

Have a good one!
OM

by apotheon

Actually, I tend to be of the opinion that perhaps a gender-pronoun preference should be a necessary part of signing up for an account here (or, for that matter, in any other online discussion forum), if only to save on the dangers of carpal tunnel syndrome when people end up using two or three times as many keystrokes as are strictly necessary every time they refer to someone else. Something like a radio button list with He, She, and It as possibilities might be nice.

I guess I care, if only because using he/she all the friggin' time gets very, very old, and occasionally it gets kinda convoluted trying to use "when one does so and so" and "the person is such and such" all the time. I'm over it. Pick your pronoun gender, people.

Me: I'm male. Thanks. I'm sure you can figure that out from the name Chad in my peer directory listing.

by oz_media

Yeah I guess that gives it away pretty good.

My point is, if the person wants to remain 'gender evasive', then they can't get upset when you refer to a single gender.

The person never even replied anyway, just spurned a segue discussion about appropriate posting ettiquette! Pretty funny when you think about it really. :)

by cp7212

I am new to posting something, if you haven't noticed. I have seen two actual responses to my question. I'm sorry if I don't know how to make my posts grammatically correct. Yeesh.

This will be my last one. Thanks to all that have actually answered me and not made this look like I was on AOL or something.

by apotheon

Yeah, good point. If you're not going to tell us what gender you are, don't complain if someone uses "he" or "she" as the stand-in for a gender-neutral pronoun. It's like the whole toilet seat debate: If you promise you'll put the toilet seat down when you use it, and promise you won't complain at me when I leave it up, then I promise I won't pee on the friggin' thing. (NOTE: Actually, I tend to close the lid of the toilet when I'm done, having lived in a house with a dog for many years when I was a teenager. It's sort of a moot point for me, but I empathize with men that have to deal with such complaints.)

By the way, I think the word you were looking for was "spawned", not "spurned". I could be wrong. Did you actually mean "spurned" there?

by apotheon

I'll pretty much respond positively to any of those holidy wish thingies. I'm no holiday bigot. Thanks for the wish, and back atcha.

by soupy

I have about the same IT experience.I have also worked with almost every political(office)
animal out there,while employed in other fields.
My advice re your first post is this.As it sounded like the director is your best bet,request a letter of recommendation from him alone.He may not want to
give it to you until he is settled in his new job in January.Go over what he will say.You want pertinent facts as well as team-player,etc. emphasized.
Secondly,get on the hunt for a new job.There was some decent advice in earlier posts,although you may have missed them while wading through the meandering river.
Thirdly,no,ALL IT forums are NOT like your thread.
After a couple years reading Tech Republic's,as well as many others,I can tell you this.The people posting replies are as knowledgeable as any,if not moreso.
However,they can come across as arrogant you-know-whats with their abruptness.There are good reasons for what they say.
The way I look at it,I spend more research time here,because people like apotheon have the RIGHT answer.
I was where you are today,cp7212.Two years ago.
I had a life outside my work,and still do.
Tech Republic forum posters have enhanced that.
It's your choice,but this isn't a bad place to hang out.
Oh yeah,if you don't want to come back to a drifting thread,post back at least once a day.
People don't want to waste their time,they want to help.
Good luck to all,happy holidays and a 2005 that sees those that help others get there due rewards.

by aceskaraoke

I'm still in school at ITT and I'll be starting an internship beginning tomorrow (merry Christmas to me).

I've learned so much valuable, and pertinent, info from TechRepublic members, especially apotheon. I know now that as an IT professional later that I will continue checking out TechRepublic and participating in their forums, it's a great way to stay sharp and way less pressure than at work, here nobody expects you to know everything.

by cp7212

My mistake about the forum. At least I did learn some things from this. Like I said, I am totally new here. I didn't mean to come off like I was being mean. I just don't know what to do. I really can't ask anybody for advice at my company, for obvious reasons. Most of my friends are not in professional positions.

I do appreciate everyone who gave me some feedback. I went from being so excited in my first professional IT job to hating it in just one year. It's so frustrating and some days it's like the snowball effect.

Happy holidays everyone.

by dafe2

I'm sure I speak for everyone here, when I say we'll look forward to seeing you arround & of course, the occasional rib here & there.

Welcome, break your paragraphs, (Dude) :-) & just have fun.

Once again, Happy Holidays & hope everything works out in the New Year

by oz_media

Well done, I am the same way (but the weather has sucked pretty bad lately and there's really not much to do here in the off season.)

I hate going out with people in the same field as me because it's a drag, I don't want to talk shop after I leave, unless it's MY shop of course.

I threw a coworker in the lake at the golf course one year because he just wouldn't stop talking shop (yes I warned him many times, but he laughed....all the way to the bottom of a scuzzy waterhole).

I don't get paid to discuss work after work, therefore I simply don't do it. It took a long time to get that into my own head too.

Yes, many discussions turn into off topic personal pissing contests, welcome to IT, there's a lot of it.

by oz_media

Yes, pretty much ANY new job is exciting as you are employed, hopefully where you have CHOSEN to be employed and are excited about the opportunities and where it will take you.

One thing to consider, there are no perfect companies, other than your own company, which will in turn not be perfect for anyone else.

You will alwyas have issues, whether with the boss, an employee, the way HR hires people, overtime pay, responsibilities changing, oh my.. the list goes on and on forever.

Every company has a flaw, some are REALLY hard to cope with and some are petty but just annoying and get under your skin (as I see your current issue). You aren't being asked to act immorally, unethically, you are getting paid properly I assume. So you must agree it could be worse, but what YOU need to determine all by yourself is HOW important to you is this?

Are there other issues that bother you to?
Can you find the same opportunity without some other issue becoming so big as to make you not like work anymore?

And remember, it is work, or else we wouldn't be paid for it. Some jobs the work is physical, others mental and other the work can even be just political. You just need to weigh your options and determine how you can improve things, whether moving on or simply finding a way to make your current job more satisfying.

Best of luck!
OM

by cp7212

Another Q...what is with the max. number of posts allowed? Doesn't it get a little confusing following the posts sometimes? Or I suppose you get used to it.

Yes, Oz, there are several people I could think of right now that I wouldn't mind throwing in a scuzzy lake, myself.

I'm a black sheep of IT. One of the jobs that I worked at while in school was as a bouncer at a club where I used to live. You really didn't need communication skills. You upset one of us and you get a flying lesson...right out the door. Unfortunately, it's just not that easy now. Although I do daydream about it a lot.

I guess you just have to manipulate them into the right situation....thanks for the story.

by aceskaraoke

I meant no disrespect to the original poster and had his best interests at heart.

I only put forward the notion that they could be male or female as there was insufficient info to make a determination, and if he was a she, calling her a guy might be considered offensive and/or chauvanistic.

The volatile reaction to commentary meant mainly to help, clarify, or at least to not offend begs the question as to whether all the problem is management and female co-worker/boss. Unfortunately, if you work with others you must learn some basic communications and diplomacy. Perception is sometimes as much a key to your success as your actual skills. If you give your bosses the impression of belligerence and non-cooperation, you are unlikely to advance (even against inferiorly experienced adversaries with greater people skills)

Again, this is only meant as commentary/advice and is in no way meant as derogatory (I don't want flying lessons). I believe the success you want to acheive may be more attainable if you groom a team-player type of attitude.

Good Luck

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