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Porn on boss' computer--the Ethicist speaks

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In yesterday's New York Times "The Ethicist" column, Randy Cohen advised a tech who wanted to know what to do about the discovery of child/"early teens" porn on the boss' computer. In the words of the tech, "Must I call the police? I think so, but I need my job."

Cohen suggested various scenarios regarding how the pictures wound up on the boss' hard drive and placed the larger blame on the producers of the pictures, but in the end, advised: "Because this material is on [the company's] computer, the firm risks prosecution. But short of calling the cops, your options are few. Nor would deleting the pictures eliminate all legal risk; that could be seen as destroying evidence. Your best recourse? Alas, silence."

Thoughts?

339 replies

by mt pilgrim

I hate to admit it, but it would seem silence is the best course of action, particularly if it is someone much further up the food chain than your immediate supervisor. Depending on your relationship with the (Assumed...) "guilty" party and the nature of the contraband (child vs. straight porn), you may be able to off-handedly comment about how "certain items should be cleaned before you pass back through on your cleaning sweep" after notifying either your boss or H/R of the situation to cover your own backside.

While this does not excuse you from responsibilities when it comes to porn images of children, unless you are absolutely iron-clad certain as to the origins of the contraband you are playing Russian Roulette with an automatic instead of a revolver with your career.

I'd have to say that I would monitor the individual's computer for evidence of further infractions. If this occurs then you are justified in going back to H/R (where there is already a record of your concern - as well, hopefully as your own detailed account of the steps taken by yourself...) and putting the ball in their lap(s).

by jterry

You talk as if you think HR would have his back in case things went wrong. In every company I have been in HR was there to protect the company, not the employee. I would take my chances with the police before HR.

by w2ktechman

If I was on a service call to work on a system, and it was an unavoidable act to find these pictures, then I would inform management, or an security or manager.

If I accidentally found it, or it was in a place that I should not have found it (or would need to look for it), I probably would not have run into it. In that case I would'nt know about it.

But the majority of the time I disregard pictures and they stay private for the individual.
However, I know someone who has been asked (as a contractor) to search a HDD for all Porn and print it out before. This manager accidentally printed a bunch and forgot to pick it up from the printer. Lol -- stupid mistake.
Anyway, he refused (as I would have) and forced the company to use its own internal security team for this.

by drowningnotwaving

If indeed it is child or early teens porn, then something must be done.

If it is the "boss" (i.e. CEO) then call the police.

What's the worse point - losing the job or possibly (by lack of intervention) encourage the exploitation of kids? Look in the mirror and ask yourself, in 25 years time, which of those choices is going to make your memories easier to deal with?

If it is a lesser boss then tell the CEO, HR Manager or someone else in authority, diarise the discussion and get your diary note witnessed by a (I think in the US you call them public notaries, in our world we call them Justices of the Peace).

If it is not child porn and the guy hasn't been forwarding it around to other people inappropriately then they'll deal with it. If it is child porn then it's a different world altogether.

by jdclyde

When do YOU go through pictures in private directories on coworkers computer?

This "tech" clearly has his own ethics issues to deal on top of determining the real age of the models. His job is toast if he says anything, because he is in a violation of his position looking at data that was not his to check out. What if this had been confidential information?

I would not want this tech working with or for me. (provided there really was a tech. I do NOT believe there was, and it is just a made up story.)

by drowningnotwaving

Yes the tech is in rock v hard place land.

Perhaps that is his/her penance - ie losing the job.

I now think your made-up story has a lot of legs, too.

Isn't it a habit, I heard somewhere, of ethicists to put out a story of moral principle, just to gather research about other people's reactions?

'Cos you have to be guessing the reaction to a kiddy-porn story is going to be reasonably universal. Can't really imagine too many public votes of empathy?

I'm learning all the time.

by tburgess

In my experience, most companies have a clearly stated policy that anything on a company asset is open to review at any time by members of the IT staff.

As such a staffer, I am empowered and directed to look for situations out of the norm that might indicate comprimising situations for the company. Things like file sharing, porn, trade thefts, etc. cost companies millions per year.

If the tech, hypothetically or not, found unusual file sizes, hidden partitions, mismatched disk sizes or any number of other red flags, and the company has such a policy as I mention, he was "duty bound" to investigate.

Once a violation was suspected, then the policy would likely direct the tech to contact HR, Information Protection, IT, VP or other for a determination on where to go next.

If the company is so small they don't have such policies, it is hard and likely a loose/loose situation for the tech. I agree with another poster however, that in 25 years, what will really matter? His integrity or his silence? I think the answer is clear.

I would strongly suggest to any tech out there, that you intimately know your companies SOP and what you can and are expected to do in such situations. If no such policy exists, draft one and submitt to management. Your computer assets at work are FOR WORK. Not for your personal use. Remember you are being paid to do a job! Do your job. Leave personal things OFF work computers. PERIOD! And if you're in to such things as kiddy porn, be afraid...very very afraid! Your day or reckoning is coming!!

by jamesrl

Depending on the policies in place, there may be the opportunity to let someone else in the organization do the right thing - I've belonged to a few orgs where the correct thing is to report to an IT security officer, in other places it would be with HR.

If there is no designated person, I would look to a senior executive I trusted - CIO.

But in the end, while you may not be "legally" responsible for seeing the thing investigated, you are as far as I am concerned, morally obligated to ensure that the right thing is done, by you or someone else. And the right thing is to contact police.

It is not your call to sift through the evidence and determine whether it is really child porn or not. If it appears to a "reasonable" person that the models may be underage and/or exploited, you should let the police decide. Same thing with the various scenarios - let the police determine whether they hold water. I know on my PC, I have an encrypted HD and pretty secure password that I have agreed to not share. If there is bad stuff on my disk, I am reponsible, if not directly, indirectly.

You are protecting the company by doing this, if you need further encouragement. If you do nothing, are you not silently assisting potentially illegal and immoral acts? Let alone protecting the company from lawsuit and scandal.

Could you risk your job - yes. But if you lose your job for doing the right thing, would you really want to be there anyway? I know in a few companies I've worked at, you would be a hero.

James

by tonythetiger

Failure to report a crime is itself a crime in many jurisdictions (usually 'obstruction of justice', but may fall under 'aiding and abetting' or 'accessory after the fact' in some jurisdictions). If it is determined that you "knew or should have known", you may be in nearly as much trouble as the perpetrator should you fail to report. And as tough as it may be to find a new job... it would be even tougher from behind bars.

by bill.herde

I have been in the IT business for over 30 years now. In that time I am proud to say no client, employer or associate has ever had just cause to question my integrity. Mistakes have been made, and prices paid. Some earned, some not. Even lost my last job for being too old. But even then, clients come looking for me because they know I can be trusted to do what is right. I have found illegal items from porn to piracy in places that would be least expected. There is always going to be a judgment call made by the individual involved. For me, I expose inappropriate material to the individual and let them know what risks they take putting this on a machine they do not own. Usually that is enough to stop it quick. Criminal stuff like kid porn is reported immediately to the next authority and I follow up to ensure appropriate action. (Usually with law enforcement) While I personally feel that many allow themselves to be overly puritan regarding sex, the perversion of one of the healthiest and often most spiritual acts of our lives should never be tolerated by society. There is a common phrase that fits. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Do the right thing.

by iceblast21

Don't you create the scandal by involving the police in the first place??? I am a little surprised to not see anyone post something more along the middle. It's either turn the guy in to the police or keep your mouth shut?

Are those really the only options?

I'd think of letting the company look at the evidence, fire the guy, and then dispose of it. Why involve authorities and potentially ruin the company's reputation?

So you just let the guy go? No. How much do you want to bet that if he has child porn at work, he'll have it at home? Find a way to get the police to search his house. He can still be punished for his actions without necessarily bringing the entire company down in a media-overhyped scandal.

I don't mean to sound uncaring in this issue, but I would hate to see the actions of one man destroy the good reputation of a large company.

by w2ktechman

in the middleground, to let the company know first.
In my own posts, and most of the others, the company's security, HR, and/or an alternate manager was suggested to be informed first. They should be the ones to call the Police/FBI, etc.
There have been a few that stated to call the Police first, but I would not view that as my first action item.

by kgolden73

I think this sort of thing is a no brainer for those with the ethics and morality to see it. Silence is not an option! I would see the security officer at the organization and if not possible then seek the assistance of the FBI. Local police are usually not capable or staffed for investigations such as this (and local politics may apply). Such as it is there should be no pornography on any company owned asset unless porn is the company business!

by tony hopkinson

if some one has been a tad foolish. Used IE to browse porn sites for instance.

If we were talking saved images / videos, then I'd have the coppers, fbi whatever in immediately.

I wouldn't give a toss about the company's reputation, less about the bosses, and have absolutely none about mine.

I have no problem with being known as person who won't turn a blind eye to this sort despicable filth.

The hardest part for me, would be not kicking the crap out of him.

Ethics, yeah right. What your saying is it's ok to have photos of children being shagged, which means some were shagged as long as you can make money out it.

Randy Cohen, I have no respect for you whatsoever. As for the guy who wrote to you grow a backbone, you snivelling coward.

by Member 25348569

The article discussed very little about ethics at all. We had a short discussion on legality, a lot of ifs and maybes leading to a conclusion that the questioner should be a self-serving sh:t and that was it.

Both the question poser and "The Ethicist", Randy Cohen, came over as people with a distinct lack of any.

by maevinn

There's no way to be silent about this. It's not the 'safe' option, it's the easy one. If the 'rank' of the guilty party is what decides your response, then you are not being ethical. If this was the low man on the totem pole, there would be no question, right? Rank does NOT equal exemption from the law.

by twoclones

I'd like to know exactly where the images were found and just how secure the machine is before naming anyone as the guilty party. It's not like we know that he is the only person using this machine.

Personally, I'd not have difficulty deciding what to do here. I would handle this the same way I handle finding any other inappropriate content on a company machine. Delete all the porn and then tell the boss, who uses the machine, that I found and deleted it. I'd also change his password and shorten the time before his screen saver locks the machine and show him how to lock the machine using Windows-L.

During this process, I'd also check his browser history for porn sites. If found, ad them to restricted sites. See who complains ;-)

by tony hopkinson

is not an accusation against an individual.

Course the user of the computer is going to be prime suspect, unlucky.

Every piece of evidence you touch, you introduce doubt. If the guy gets nailed by some more civic minded person and they find you've deleted it, you're deep in brown stuff.

The coppers won't accept the good of the company bit, if they can charge you, they will.

I was just doing my job = I was just following orders = guilty. Precedent set at Nuremberg.

by jmgarvin

If the FBI is already tracking the boss for kiddie porn the sys admin could be charged as well.

My suggestion: Take the HDD, talk to HR, and see what can be done. This is serious stuff and could land the sys admin in hot water by staying quiet.

by bigbigboss

Essentially, the IT guy discovered a crime was committed on the premise of the company. Are there company rules about that ? If not, call the security department, or the auditors, or your boss (not the one who committed the crime), or quietly to the guys boss. But report it.

by dabler

How in the world can silence be an option? Regardless of how they got there, the pictures are evidence of a crime committed. If you found out the boss was stealing money from the company, would silence be an option? Someone in authority above this guy needs to be alerted. If you are worried about your job, do it anonymously.

by leonard j rivera sr.

First off - I agree with all posts that call for action. this is not just a crime, but one of the worst crimes ever. The sexual exploitation of children. I am taking for granted that it is child porn we are discussing here.

No Matter what (child porn or not) it must be reported to HR plain and simple. Get it on record that you discovered it, at what time, in what location (what computer and where on that computer) and what was observed.

There must be a record of this report. After that, it is up to the company to take action, not the employee.

If the company does not take action (more porn discovered later) then a second report to HR with a record must happen. This protects the technician.

If none of the above appears to be working, then it is a simple matter of the tech getting a lawyer and opening a sexual harrasment case. According to Federal Sexual harrassement laws, porn on a computer is deamed offensive and is criteria to take action (does not have to be child porn).

Bring a sexual harrassementt complaint to HR and watch how fast they take action, else, continue through your lawyer.

Not only should it not be there, but you (the tech) should not have to be subject to it, and simply because you were, in the work place, doing your normal job as usual, then you are the victim here.

And as a father of 4, I can't say I'd follow the same advise, only that I would certainly take action immediately, only not as nice. I would not take exposure to such a thing lightly at all.

The laws are so strict in that arena that simply "seeing" it on a computer could be illegal. By viewing it (if only for a second) you yourself could have broken the law, so protect yourself and take action now. Not doing so makes you an accessory.

by dlmeyer9

Unless the "boss" is so high in the company that sending
him to jail would cripple or destroy the company, you
have no choice but to out him. You don't have to do it "in
person", though. You could ask enough people about it
that someone else would report him, for example.
"Plausible deniability", a concept from the Nixon Years,
can be your pal. I'd freshen your resume first, though.
Better yet, move on before reporting him. This person
could cause the company serious damage - either
because his behavior is Criminal, or because it is Deviant,
or because it leaves him open to blackmail. His boss may
still regard you as similarly dangerous and consider a
great review as an acceptable parting gift.

DLMeyer - the Voice of http://glhorton.podomatic.com/

by andy moon

...to get the message out without becoming directly involved. If you want to make sure the porn disappears and never reappears, get an untraceable Hotmail account and email the person in question to let him know that the secret is out and that he should cleanse his HDD.

If you truly think that law enforcement involvement is appropriate (which it is if you are 100% sure that it is porn involving children), try to make an opportunity to ghost the HDD, back the offending computer to tape, or get some kind of archive that shows where and when the material was on the computer. Notify someone in the company (most times, I would bring it to the HR director) and if nothing is done, call the FBI.

There are some things that are more important than a job.

by goc

For an idea on exactly how bad an idea doing nothing is, just look to the recent activities in the US Congress. Not reporting it or not taking action is the same as accepting this as acceptable behavior. If you suspect (or even think) it is child porn it MUST be reported. If nothing else go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited children (http://www.missingkids.com/) and select the Cypertipline link to report this.

by tg2

Be careful with those words.

Firstly, the boss may have been sent these as attachments for a purpose and not realized they were not destroyed.

Secondly, there is a fine line between porn (of any age) and art. Were this the computer for the curator of a museam, the pictures could have been sent as samples of an artist's work etc..

while very unlikely this is the case ... always give advice on the side of caution.

use of the conjunction "IF" is called for... that is "IF this is criminal OR deviant"

The person should know IF porn or potentially pornographic content is commonly allowed on company computers. That would be in the employee handbook.

If porn (or potentially pornographic) material is not allowed as a company policy, then the employee should notify his direct boss so long as that is not the associated porn holder. With that, his boss would be required to handle it as part of an HR issue, HR would then be responsible to calling in law enforcement or classifying how the company will deal (if HR needs to they would consult the company lawyers)

Given all of that, if the matter were not resolved satisfactorally to the employee, ie, they tell you they've taken administrative action against the CEO or are cleaning it up and so forth ... then the position is how you want to deal with it.. you can contact the police, they can come and talk to the people you reported it to inside the company.

This is the way to handle the issue. Don't jump to conclusions.

I was investigating an office for a company I work for, "slow internet access" was the complaint. During *my* investigation I found hits to a porn house, the company policy is clear that non-business use of company equipement is forbidden (and the company is not in porn or graphic media or any remotely associated porn industry/side bar)

With that as part of my finding for the "slow internet" and that I could identify the computer, I verified the currently logged on employee, looked up track records on this computer where there had been issues in the past that it was "cleaned" of spy and ad ware (conclusion now was that it was never checked for porn before and that the employee was visiting porn sights which downloaded the spyware on him) and with that information, fact and conjecture, I went to my boss.

He went to his boss (instead of HR as he should have) and his boss said get additional information/log activity, scan drive directly, etc..

with orders in hand I covertly scanned, obtained proof of access and content. With that handed off the packet to my boss who then handed off to his, and the employee (one of several company owners) was taken to a legal counselling session. We (I.T. Dept) were told in future to handle these issues the same way, with exceptions on who we would notify if it was our direct superior etc... because I was directly involved the company kept me informed of their decision.

Granted had it been child porn and I not been kept in the loop I would have informed the company they needed to, and then told them that if the outcome was not given to the police for formal investigation, I would have no alternative myself (since in collecting the information I would then have copies of it too and could be implicated) It is also for that reason I keep copies of my email off company site so that I can have unaltered copies to help keep me clear.. etc..

These are better and more complete ways on handling such issues.. if the guy has porn that violates company policy, its however the company wants to deal with it. if the porn clearly broke law (child or otherwise) then I would have expected the outcome to have involved the police. Even if the guy is innocent and it were planted.. because at that point, the law would go after the purpetrator.

by john.decoville

I have been faced with this and have been grateful to have had a relationship with an attorney. The plan of action varies depending on what type of clientele the company has.

If the clients are children, or there is a fiduciary (financial responsibility) the actions might be different. There are ways to be a whistle-blower without being a martyr. Our corporate world shoots the messenger so getting out of outrage is a first, best step.

Discovering porn on a boss's computer uncovers many ethical issues. How did you discover the Porn? Was the method of discovery ethical?

Are you, the whistle-blower, clean ethically in the company in the fullest extent of the term?

And finally, since certain crimes unreported, carry penalties, I unhesitatingly consult a trusted attorney.

--John

by tony hopkinson

Legalities fine, ethics are the last thing I'd consult a lawyer about, professionally they have none. Might as well ask a politician.

by ivefallen

My wife is an attorney, and one of the most consciously ethical attorneys you will ever meet. Attorneys like her are the ones you don't hear about because of the crooked ones that will go to any lengths to make a buck. There are more ethical attorneys around than you think. That, my friend, is a fact.

by teaching information systems

When I worked at a AOL call center, we called the police on tech with kiddy porn. They arrested him after seeing the pictures. I was given the impression that we had to call or become part of problem.

by tony hopkinson

Page intentionally left blank for no reason.

No smiley , because there's nothing in this issue to smile about.

by unclerob

This tech discovers images/contents of child pornography on his boss's computer, what needs to be done....

Those advocating silence are just taking care of themselves. Sorry I have to say it, if no one else will.

There isn't that much of a leap between viewing & using this kind of perverted content on your computer to becoming a predator who attacks children to take of his sadistic needs. Yes that's a general statement but an accurate one as well. He may not have physically done anything to children yet but it's against the law to have this kind of content in your possession - that's because it's precursor to the kind of behavior that would lead him to physically harming children. That's why it's illegal to have this crap on your computer, on vhs tape, dvd, books, magazines, etc.

Yes you can save your job and not say a thing. I would hate to find out sometime later that this tech's boss was actually involved in harming poor children. In saving your job, you enabled him to continue his activity without restraint, nothing was done to curb his behavior and punish him for the unspeakable acts he thinks up in his mind or in reality.

Save your job... not really a big deal.

Save a life, more importantly saving a child from a predator that could committ unspeakable acts - that is a big deal.

I wouldn't even blink at this decision.

But if you're like some people and you can't stand the thought of looking for another job, keep quiet. I hope no one gets hurt because of this decision. How much money is the tech person earning in his current job that it's worth it to remain quiet after making this kind of discovery.

Just remember, we all have to live with the decisions we make. I would rather live knowing that the decision I made possibly saved a life and helped put a predator of children behind bars.

Speak to HR, tell them what you found. Boss or no boss, this person should be reprimanded for his actions because he is stupid enough to pursue criminal activity using company computer equipment - talk about an audit trail! If they want do anything, speak to the Police. If the tech is really that worried about his job, ask for some kind anonymity, if anything they could start tracking his email, web surfing & instant messaging habits and begin a case against him on that, all the tech did was alert the police to someone who engaged in this behavior. The police would do their own work and accumulate the required evidence necessary to put him away.

There should be no tolerance for this kind of behavior ever! Once a child is attacked by this kind of predator, this person is ruined for life and will have problems for the rest of their life based on this experience. Do some research if you don't believe, find out more about the topic if you can't make up your mind on this situation.

Plus if this wasn't the boss, it was just a regular person working in the office, would we even 2nd guess what the required action would be? Does status really exempt you from criminal prosecution? Make no mistake, this is criminal activity we're talking about here - I would hope no one would think that status does give you a get out jail card for free.

The ethicist in the NY Times column should have given better advice. Give you heads a shake people, these are children we're talking about?!

by bcastleman

It appears that most of the respondees are appalled at the 'ethical' response advocated.

Let's assume the most innocous case - that the boss's computer has been turned into a zombie and the controlling entity is using his drive for storage. Wouldn't the company and your boss be best served by pointing out the problem?.

In the worst case, the boss is trafficking in illegal images and needs to be prosecuted.

Between those to extremes I honestly can't think of an ETHICAL scenario that allows ignoring it. If it was indeed child porn a serious crime has been committed and must be investigated. Doing nothing just allows the crime to continue.

by dawgit

But that is a Question that must be answered by someone else. (too many time I've seen people set up to take a fall that way, and they they fell into it because of lax security on their part) There is no question about if you do something, You MUST do something. The question is what. Which brings up a realy good discussion.
-Policys-
Just what do you do? Who do you call? How is this handled? What is the Procedures for the like in your firm?
Now is the time to ask, not after something is found. there should be policies and standards in place at every firm in operation. In writing.!. Ask about them, or even write them your self. (the local law enforcement folks will probably be glad to help.)
I think that is what we, as IT Techies, should be discussing. so a thank-you to Leee for bringing it up. :-)

by johnny bee

We place far too much emphasis on the repercussions to ourselves and others who may or may not be engaged in questionable activity. These pictures are a clear violation of the use of company computers - no matter what company we are talking about.

It does not matter that the pictures may be of "young-looking adults" the simple fact is that they are intended to look exactly as they are designed - as young teens possibly underaged. Is the discoverer obligated to now become a detective and determine the "truth" of the pictures? I think I would be more concerned now that if this boss gets caught by someone else, and it comes out that the "Ethicist" was aware of the pics, that he will be implicated as adding and abetting by letting it happen.

Which brings me directly to the point of all this. Far too many people take the easy road out of such situations saying that we don't know the truth of the matter behind the pictures. Too many people stand by the old axiom that "it's known of my business". It DOES NOT matter how the pictures wre discovered and revealed when it comes to child safety - the law actually supports casual discovery, at least in Canada - from an innocent discoverer.

When it comes to the question of child safety - we are obligated to err on the side of caution for the sake of all children. Cohen would have us bury our heads in the sand and do nothing. I would advise the HR department of what I had found, perhpas not exactly where, or on who's system, but would advise them that I am concerned enough to turn the matter over to police. Whether unfounded or not, I would rather stand up for my own principles that NO ONE should be supporting the ownership, distribution or creation of such questionable material, and that those who let it happen are just as culpable as those who perpetrate the act. I would not want to work for someone of such questionable character, nor would I want to work for a company that would want me to remain silent due to some small shred of doubt. I'd rather go to bed at night knowing I tried to do the right thing - consequences to myself be damned. Do you really think that other companies would look on this as a blot on your resume, should have to find employment elsewhere? I would think that a person of such integrity and principles would be welcomed by the better working environments.

by rkg

Think like a paranoid... Where are the pics on the computer? Assume you had a different employee that was tech savy, and a boss that is clueless. One way to do avoid risk is to place the files on someone else's machine. Check file ownership, etc.
Second, if the files are there, and if they are discovered by someone else, and it turned out that you knew of their presence, you may have some liability; even if you need the job, it is a question of how much of a bullet you are willing to absorb, in worst-case scenario.
Then, sit back, and think somewhere away from work; don't let the everyday environment cloud your thoughts, as you decide. Once you decide on a course of action, document what you find, what you plan to do, and make certain there is not rancor or malice in your actions. Save the documentation somewhere away from work.
This may be a good time to chat with some legal counsel before you act. It may also be a good time to look for a different position.

by maevinn

Quote: Think like a paranoid... Where are the pics on the computer? Assume you had a different employee that was tech savy, and a boss that is clueless. One way to do avoid risk is to place the files on someone else's machine. Check file ownership, etc.
End Quote

Nope--I'm not a detective and it's not my responsibility to determine the owner of illegal files. By checking them multiple times, you risk implicating yourself. Discover, report. Anything else will be handled by those trained in determining the truth. Anything else done could make it harder for the cops to do their job!

by Member 25348569

the question is one of ethics. To bring religion into the discussion shows your complete lack of understanding of the word.

by computab

It depends where you get your ethics from. It originated in the Bible - else how would you know the difference between right and wrong?

by jamesrl

Do you think no one other than Christians has a concept of right and wrong?

Ethics has nothing to do with faith. You can be highly ethical and be atheist, and many people who profess to be strong christians have turned out to be highly unethical.

beat you to it Neil.
James

by tony hopkinson

ethics originated in the bible !

Thankfully your lot are dying out, otherwise we'd still be burning people at the stake, pinching them with hot irons, drowning them, stealing their land and valuables, authoring genocides and other atrocities, all in the name of the good book.

Put the bible down read some history, I find your wilful ignorance offensive.

by jdclyde

you are an embarrassment.

And so there were no ethics before the bible? So Jesus himself was not ethical, as the bible had not been written yet?

Please think before you ever say such a stupid thing agian.

by ccrobinson

As I'm innocent of viewing or producing child porn, I have no problem picking up my stone.

If you want to bring the words of Christ into this matter, let's consider all of those words. Like these.

Luke 17:2 - "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Your compassion is laudable. Your application of compassion in this case is not.

by jackintheback

who's to say that you didn't plant it?
are you guy's in the business of making child porn?
key word is "boss'computer" not your computer. . .not your child's computer. . be thankful for the purity in your life. . .did you get the information you were "needing" from your boss' computer, or were you so distracted that you became inefficient?
seriously, I've found porn, and I destroy it, no interrogating, no dwelling on the issue, just DELETE. no need to become a cancerous boil on the ass of my company,

by jackintheback

silent objection would be deleting it. . .
Your concience would be cleared by action.
if it happens again, its not your fault.
if your boss has sex with a child during a company meeting, that is a crime, there are witnesses and every one can testify against the criminal. active participation in the removal of undesired behavior is every one's job.
if you don't object, it will grow

by tony hopkinson

so it's not a crime off the premises, or during lunch then?

Generally the only witness to child abuse is the child. I dare say even you would raise some sort of trifling objection if it happened in front of you.

by antagonist

First of all, those of you advocating 'call the cops immediately', consider this: How hard is it really to plant pictures on someone's computer?

It is laughable how easy it would be for me to frame someone with this kind of material. To think otherwise is naive to the extreme.

This is what you do:

Confront the person who had this filth on their computer, watch their reaction closely. Look for surprise versus indignation. Surprise would indicate innocence and indignation would indicate anger at being caught. If they are indignant, you punch them in the face 10 or 15 times and throw them out a window. If they are surprised, tell them someone has framed them, show them the filth and that you are making an exact image of their hard drive and storing it in a safe place as evidence against the framer. Then conduct the investigation yourself, get the names of all the people that are the victim's enemy. Then repeat this process with all of them, looking for the indignant, punching them, throwing them out the window.

Once that is done, make sure that everyone in the company knows why the person was beaten to a pulp and that the same fate will befall anyone else that does it.

by jdclyde

The disk image is taken FIRST, under the close supervision of HR.

YOU do NOTHING without supervision or it comes down to your word vs theirs.

YOU do not confront them, HR does. It is their job to follow this down, not some lowly tech that is riding high and mighty.

Unless you wish to share a cell with your boss, provided the pics are real and are illegal. Either way, you will be doing time.

by jamesrl

Whether or not it is easy to frame someone, is not your concern. That is a matter for the courts. They decide guilt or innocence, not you.

Possession of child porn is against the law in every civilized (and many uncivilized) countries. If you encouter child porn, hand over the responsibility to the legal authorities.

Let me counter your stupid scenario:

You see the guilt and punch him out. You are escorted out the building by HR for assault. He gets access to his computer and destroys the evidence. You are convicted for assault and the child porn lover can't be prosecuted. Gee I would sleep better at night - NOT.

Or you determine the guy is innocent and start interviewing people. Person who is guilty takes steps to eliminate the evidence and bingo, you are helping the guilty escape.

In most organizations I've been in even raising a fist with an agressive attitude is enough to get you fired. I witnessed someone fired for just such an act - I don't know if he had intended to hit someone, but it looked like it.

Similar scenario happened recently in New Brunswick. Neighbours were tired of the local drug dealer getting away with making and selling out of his house. Gang of vigilantes takes it upon themselves to burn the place down. They are arrested, charged and convicted. They burnt the house down containing the evidence. The drug dealer gets off free.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061118/dealer_fire_061118/20061118?hub=TopStories

I'm glad you don't work for me, you wouldnt for long.

James

by unclerob

that's usually what happens.

I don't think he'd be thrown in jail unless he went to court and was allowed his due process - it's up to the courts to determine if he's guilty or not - if he's innocent, he has nothing to worry about.

People that are into this filth also tend to be dumb (aside from being evil). I'm sure if he's guilty, the trail of bread crumbs wouldn't stop at his computer. I'm sure he this crap at home as well. I'm also sure if necessary, his internet browsing habits could be pieced together to determine if he's guilty or not.

Predators of children need to be dealt with swiftly so that they can't harm anymore children.

by tony hopkinson

They'll let the c**t off because he's already suffered and he once watched a Britney Spears video.

Punch him in the face after he's sentenced.

by jdclyde

While it does make for an exciting rant about stringing up someone for possible child porn, I have installed software on MANY work systems and have yet to find a need to snoop through personal directories looking at their pictures.
[b]
If the story were real, yes report. I am betting the story is just a bunch of BS and surprised most of you didn't see past the obvious emotional land mines to the fraud that it is.[/b]

The guy clearly not getting enough attention and is trying to drum some up by making this story up.

How do the laws in Canada differ from the US on this, I wonder.

by jamesrl

I had a job to do some file recovery on a crashed HD and was told to do some random checks. I found porn, but nothing illegal. I informed IT security and they never said a word again about it, as is their policy.

As to how the laws differ in Canada, not much really. We do have active units at all levels of policing attacking internet child porn. There was a court case about written words not distributed which scared some people, but images are clearly illegal. Our court systems are not that dissimilar - we have pretty similar rules of evidence, both based on British common law, we sometimes use american cases as precidents. We don't have a Miranda warning - if you don't ask for your rights, they don't have to tell you.

James

by jdclyde

and thus, don't buy into it.

Unless we turn this in to a hypothetical and assume this tech actually did come across this in the legitimate course of his duties.

From the time the pics are found, no one should be allowed on that computer for ANYTHING, and no one allowed alone with it. Unplug it from the LAN, if not turn it right off. In a case like this, I think I would even be afraid to make the disk image. After all, you WOULD be making copies of an illegal file.

by tony hopkinson

Actually I believe it was he who is without sin.

Which is me, I can't be a sinner because I don't believe in your god. So pass me a couple of large ones and get out of my way.

by unclerob

people who make use of this child porn on their computers, at home in books, in movies, etc. are predators of children.

Be careful how you word things, people don't take kindly to statements like that, you make it sound like we're all doing what this boss did.

As for the boss, he's a criminal, and a predator of children. Blow the whistle on him, loudly! Put him in jail, behind bars where he can't get to our kids. It's not a huge leap from watching kiddie porn on your computer to becoming a predator that sits in chat rooms waiting for his next victim.

I don't need to be a christian to know the difference between right & wrong.

by tony hopkinson

If she does defense and she wins the case her client is not guilty even if they are.

I aren't a lawyer so I don't confuse good and bad with legal and illegal. Professionally when she represents someone her judgement of whether they deserve to win their case is suspended, no matter how vile they might be.

There are lots of ethical people who are lawyers , they all bin them when they enter court.

And that my friend is also a fact.

by ivefallen

There's much we in the general public don't know about that TV or print media won't tell you.

"I aren't a lawyer so I don't confuse good and bad with legal and illegal. Professionally when she represents someone her judgement of whether they deserve to win their case is suspended, no matter how vile they might be."

An entirely circumstantial yet inaccurate statement. This goes back to what you yourself stated.

"I aren't a lawyer".

And that...my friend...we know full well is a fact.

by john.decoville

All too many Americans do not have contracts, real estate transactions or large purchases reviewed by a competant professional. A serious ethics violation at work by a boss or someone in authority rises to that level too. Making a general statement about attorneys and failing to check legal ramifications can have serious and long-term consequences for one's family, retirement. I am related to several lawyers and am proud to know them. --John

by tony hopkinson

Entirely circumstantial yet in innaccurate.

What's that lawyer speak ?

Sounds clever, makes no sense whatsoever.

Come on then friend which bit was innaccurate, are you saying your wife chucks cases if she feels she can't morally represent her client in certain circumstances?

by tony hopkinson

and as many others to sit with you as witnesses while the authorities are contacted. Write down the name of anyone who objects, after all there must be a reason.

Don't touch anything, a tech is capable of planting the evidence given enough freedom and you don't want the real guilty party whoever it might be to get off.

It could be someone else using the bosses computer, the forensics boys will sort that out. Those boys, make us look like grandma waving a mouse about.

by martinplatt

We're talking about two different issues, one of a tech maybe snooping, and another of illegal materials on a machine.
I think if the boss had ordered a HDD be searched with some reasonable idea that someone he was in charge of had such images, that person would be in trouble, no moral or ethical dilemmas or whatever the Christian said either. So what is the difference there? If it's good for the goose...
The idea that a tech goes through a hard drive first without the boss knowing, and second that he's actually entitled to do so, well if the situation was sancioned by the company, and it is the company's property, then he has every right to do whatever he's told. We normally sign documents to say that the computer equipment is the companies and no offensive material is allowed on it. Seems clear to me. If it's a tech who is going around looking at computers on some sort of an ego trip, I don't think that that person would last very long, as they're probably able to also gain access to potentially confidential documents and thus could themselves be in breach if they divulge those contents of such files. There's a clear difference though between kiddie porn and business documents. The issue then of someone accessing some image of actually saving that image to a machine is I guess down to intent, and that would define the legality of the actions I guess??

by tony hopkinson

then his ethics can certainly be called into question.
However if he puts paedo's in jail, I'll forgive him unconditionally, once he's been fired. :D

The thing is if you are doing general housekeeping, and you notice disk space is down...

If you are looking at why people are complaining the internet is slow.

If you are monitoring traffic and you find people running P2P clients out of the company pipe...

When are you not doing your job and what unsanctioned activities might you discover in the course of tracking the problem down.

The guy could just have been bored and glancing at the file names the virus checker was going through or from a defrag.

A nosey tech is no where near as much of a problem as it being discovered that your company kit is being used to distribute any questionable files, far less child porn.

by w2ktechman

Personally, I can care less what is on someones system, unless it causes a problem. I do respect data privacy, and although it is unimportant to me, it is this persons important information. I work for a department that has company confidential information regularly (legal), and I have worked on HR, Credit Union, Finance and Govt. Affairs systems. The people trust me enough to send these materials to me or open them for me for problem solving -- on the promise that I delete it or do not discuss it. I usually dont read more than the header or any large text that cannot be avoided.

With that in mind, I have personally found unwanted material on systems, so it might not be a joke.
When hired at this company, you need to sign off that the computer is owned by the company, and so does all data. We take yearly training courses which state what is and is not allowed.

So it is entirely possible that his is a ruthful story, or that it was based on a truthful event.
Although it is more likely that someone was snooping, I am not going to judge it.

If the tech was snooping, then it could/would mean termination at least. But, they should step forward and inform the company security, HR, or a different manager. HR or security would be the best choices.
If it was just porn, I would let the person know that it is a bad descision and warn them from those types of sites on the work syste, or bring up company policy. But the nature of this porn is disturbing and illegal, so the company needs to specify what needs to be done.

by georgeou

If it's regular porn, report it to HR because it's a violation of company policy.
If it's child porn, report it to the police because it's a violation of the LAW and decency.

I don't know what the problem is here.

by cely

Company computers are for working on, not for keeping personal porn libraries of any description.

As for kiddie porn, I don't believe it's possible to accidentally wander onto such a site... they keep them well hidden from what I've read. So yes I would report it. Not because it's the ethical thing to do, but because it's the right thing to do.

by georgeou

The police have to do an audit of who that file got on the computer. If it was downloaded from a website, there will be a lot of it in the temp folders. Even if the temp folders were flushed, they can still be recovered.

This brings up a dilemma. What if someone who doesn't like someone else deliberately puts porn in to that user's computer? Does someone get framed that easily and gets fired? Does that person go to jail if someone else put child porn on his system?

by jrhenry

Call the police or the RCMP-done.(Canadain)
Once the authorities are on site they will probably lockdown all workstations and servers until a complete forensic investigation has been completed.

by kmilling

1. You need to find out what the company's policy is because of two reasons - it will tell you who to contact if you find it and how they deal with it. As an example my employer (Canadian military) will fire the boss and turn him over to the civilian police.
2. If no policy contact your IT security officer. Ask them to investigate saying he was doing a security audit and discovered the child porn. This would meet both your moral and legal requirements.
3. If no IT security officer get, either, an outside lawyer or report it to the company legal department (anonymously if necessary).
4. It is very important to report also to protect yourself in case the boss gets caught down the road. If they discovered that you had accessed those pictures and failed to report it you could be leaving yourself open to legal actions. Using my employer as an example, you could be looking at being fined, your job put on probation or possibly being fired with no pension/severance.

by martinplatt

totally agree. If the tech is doing their job, or not and finds a problem then I agree it's good if they stop these people. From their perspective though, they'd possibly damage their own careers, which I guess is where the morality comes in. for me, there's no question, but then again, I haven't done that job for many years.
Think the issue of having kiddie porn on a machine no matter where it is, is wrong, and should be reported. Whomever finds that should be reporting it, no argument there from me.
The tech snooping and perhaps using that sort of thing as an excuse, given the minority that have these images, means the the majority might have to be snooped upon.
For me, I don't have anything on a work computer that I would not want anyone to see, however it could get out of hand, couldn't it?
Kind of moves into the discussion of finding porn on computers and sacking people because of it, and whether that's right, then maybe the same applies to rude jokes that some people might find offensive... An egotistical techie would have a field day, hey? I think these sorts of problems these days have gone from people using their intelligence to sort them out to having to almost sign away any sense of individuality and sense of humour away before starting a new job.
Before anyone says anything, I agree the paedophile should be shopped no matter what... Just interested in the knock on effect of such actions.

by tony hopkinson

One clown was downloading entire sites. He was into ebony. The head of HR was young, female and of african descent. :D

He didn't get sacked for offending her though, he got sacked because he was not doing his job.

Didn't know much either, I mean we were on a proxy for f's sake. I'd have sacked him for being too stupid.

You have no real privacy at work, doesn't have to be porn, could be TR. :D

I'm reading the C# and .NET articles boss.
Honest

I can understand not minding looking at pictures of naked ladies, makes perfect sense if there's a shortage of actual ones.

I can't understand being dumb enough to do it at work though, you might as well p:ss in the corner of the boss' office.

by babylooniah

I see many new kind of web site where isn,t porn but children have a clothes no more nude so i think that is good way to out of porn, and pedophil not get punishment, and also webmaster who do that, child model is future way to make glad and joy to pedophil people its not unlegal, child not hurt, thanks that idea who make it

by unclerob

- I think that's the first time I read a response from someone who is looking out for the best interests of the pedophile/child predator.

by unclerob

I read your response and it scares me.

Then I read your name, "babylooniah", I don't want to make any assumptions and I would hope you're not one of these predators you seem to be looking out for with your "joy to pedophile" idea?!

I would say that it would be a huge waste of time & energy to cater to the needs of a sick & twisted group of people that prey on children.

Put more money into rehabilitation for children affected by this terrible problem, put more money into awareness programs so that people are educated into how a big a problem it really is, put more resources into hunting down these pedophiles and placing them in jail forever!

by jdclyde

about anything suspicious, and what little we were given states the exact opposite.

The "internet tech" only states that he is installing a new software package.

He does not state why he is snooping in his bosses personal pictures or give anything to validate his time spent snooping through his bosses computer. There was no talk at all about being suspicious of his bosses activity.

I still do not buy this as anything more than to push the discussion out and get the writer some face time.

If we ignore the logic of the tech should be fired for snooping through company assets, we get to the point of pics he THINKS MIGHT be girls under 18. Are they really under 18, and are they actually porn? We had a discussion on here where someone found (again, on a bosses computer? I see a trend?) underage girls in swimwear. Inappropriate, but not illegal?

If there is VALID concern that the PICTURES are indeed illegal, as I said elsewhere, get off the system NOW and call HR. Don't do anything until you have a witness, and even then don't do anything but call the authorities. Like I also said, I would even be afraid to make a disk image for evidence as I do not know what the legal aspects of that are, because now YOU are duplicating illegal material.

by edglock21

...there's an oxymoron.

As for the "scenario"; make an image of the HD and report it to whomever YOU think will have your back.

At the company I worked at previously, this type of thing was taken very seriously (ANY pornographic pictures were grounds for dismissal).

However, there were CLEAR WRITTEN guidelines that spelled this out and everyone in the company had to sign their name that they had recieved and read the guidelines. A company without clear written guidelines would get eaten alive by the sharks, errr...lawyers for the defense. And there were clear written policies regarding many things one was permitted to do with the company's property (e.g. the computers, printers, phones, etc.).

A big company concerned with it's reputation would likely take action against the "boss"; a small sole-proprietor/partnership company may try to sweep it under the rug. There's not enough info in the scenario to make a call on who to/where to report the offense.

Silence is obviously not the proper course of action - the individual would have to make the decision on whom he could trust and report the issue to that person/entity.

by mill3502

I work for a government agency, rule number one, if you find anyone breaking the law than you must turn them in. If you are found to have known and not turned them in you shall be fired.

Makes it kind of simple.

by reiley 411

He could be molesting kids for all you know. If you found out later that that was the case wouldn't you feel the least bit guilty knowing you could have stopped it?

by bmagurn

Other than the guy who suggested taking him behind the woodshed and giving him a blanket party, we're only talking about reporting him, and as others have said allowing the investigation to begin.

I think this is ethically the absolute minimum that can be expected of a citizen. And if you are truly a christian and not just using it as a catch phrase, you should be ashamed.

by jatcan

I cannot beleive a Tech Republic writer suggested the best course of action is SILENCE. Silence means whomever is doing this is going to KEEP ON doing this. SILENCE makes you no better than your boss or the sick fucks who take these types of pic's in the first place! The ONLY course of action is inform the police and start looking for a new job...as a matter of fact I'd work with the police to make sure it was the BOSS who was actually doing this. As an IT professional one can setup monitoring and logs to locate the true source of these sick pictures...I mean come on...recommedning silence as the best course of action is just SO WRONG on SO many levels...

by jamesrl

No where do I see anyone from Tech Republic suggesting silence.

The Tech Republic writer (Hi Lee!) merely referenced a NY Times article and asked our opinions.

James

by jatcan

Emotions always get the better of me when these things are discussed....I am usually more in control and I usually pay more attention to what I read...the subject matter totally freaked me out..

Appologies to the writer.

by jatcan

The article clearly states that the porn in question is child/early teen porn. NOT ADULT porn, which is something entirely different. For those of you who agree that silence is the best course of action, I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror while thinking aout your daughters and young female relatives who MAY(GOD FORBID) go through something just like this!!! For god's sakes where is the morality gone to! IS your job/money now more important than the lives of these young human beings?

by ray.mosely

Ethics, morality, and law are three distincly
separate concepts.
As some have noted, the Bible offers guidance
on morality. Ethics and the law may also
offer guidance, but in any event morality
follows some sort of personal code.
Ethics generally applies to a formal or
informal code that applies to a profession.
Seen in that light and the total thread of
this discussion, I would say that the profession
of IT needs some work in the ethics department.
There seems to be a wide variation of
viewpoints on the right and wrong of this
situation because of a lack of an ethical
code for IT.
Legally, in the US, there is no middle ground
for this scenario. As stated, you have
found child porn on the computer. You
are legally obliged to report it to the
police.
As a practical matter, it does matter how
you found it and how far you went with
examining the computer. If you found it in
an illegal search and/or continued to look
for evidence, your own morality comes into
question and you have also broken the law.
An immoral person might want to consider
some sort of cover up. If you found it by
accident, you should try to document it
with a print out and immediately stop
looking. Let the police handle it through
appropriate search and seizure procedures, in
other words a search warrant.
Copying the hard drive was suggested, but
that is also illegal without a warrant unless
you have been instructed to do so. Such
instructions may actually be illegal under
laws governing the 4th amendment rights to
privacy, without a warrant. This would
depend on how company or public agency
policy is written and how it is applied on
a daily basis.

Morally, I find this situation repugnant.
I would also find the loss of work less than
desirable. But there is always work for a
competent IT person.
Ethically, it is clear that the IT profession
can not police itself. The variation of
viewpoints shows that. We need a code of
ethics that covers these situations.
Legally, it is a no brainer. Report it.
Unless of course you don't want to be
caught engaging in other illegal activities
you are engaged in.
As a practical matter, you should report
it directly to the police, and immediately
after that report it to a company official
perferably HR, compliance officer or legal
staff, just to give them a heads up.
If you are fired, then you hire a lawyer.
And of course document your actions with
written notes.

by clallo4444

I have found porn on employee's PC's. Good ol' american, fake boobie, 18 year old porn on your PC is dumb but not deplorable. I couldn't live with myself if I ignored Kiddie stuff. How can you be sexually attracted to something that isn't even sexually developed? Donkey shows make more sense to me.

End the war on drugs and prostitution. Put every penny into making sure kiddie porn makers and collectors are jailed or dead.

by dduffy

If there is child porn on the computer, then the police must be informed. The local jurisdiction's Sexual Assault unit or the FBI could be contacted, but the bottom line is you have to step up to the plate. If you keep silent on such a heinous crime for the sake of keeping your job, then what else would you allow for $.

by twoclones

Leaving it on the machine allows whomever put it there to distribute it further. Would that be the right thing to do?

Let's face it, the true criminal is whomever produced those images. That said, if this 'boss' were in those kiddie porn images, I would have walked out of his office carrying at least the harddrive with me and gone straight to the law.

by jamesrl

Eliminating it from the HD wipes out evidence. So by erasing it, you could be letting a pedophile get away with it.

Distribution and possesion are still crimes. If there was no market for it, there would not be any producers.

James

by smilodon

Personally I agree with the person who said they would not go to HR. What about contacting law enforcement anonymously, making sure your phone number is hidden or calling from a pay phone? If I went to HR I would make sure to contact the FBI or at least some external government agency at the same time. If there was no other option than I would feel morally obligated to come forward publically. I believe it's possible as a tech to come across such information unintentionally. The porn might very clearly be kiddy porn, there seems to be enough of it out there. Mayyyybe if it was in the cache the person might have come across it inadvertently whilst browsing adult sites...but I dunno. Why on earth can't they have the good sense to do that on their own personal PC and not put IT folks in this position? Anyone who knows how to turn a computer on nowadays knows that there are traces of your activity that stay on the computer.

by tony hopkinson

How do you prove the hard drive under your arm was the one in the PC?

That's why I said leave it alone.

Coppers don't put tape round the scene of a crime because some manager bulk bought a load of it.

by florida_kes

When I worked at a mid-sized corporation, I discovered that our interm company President was surfing "normal" porn sites. I notified my boss, who notified his boss (CFO) who just happened to have a pet peeve against the President.

Bottom line: Within two months, EVERYONE who was involved with the issue including me, my manager, the CFO and various other company officers who tried to use the situation to remove the President got canned by the parent company.

by ashforde

As has been cited so many times already here, if a crime has been committed, it must be reported; no question. If a breach of policy has been committed, it must be reported; no question.
Reported to whom, that is the question. It depends entirely on the organization and its organizational structure. Perhaps you report it to a superior, perhaps to the police, perhaps to a superior of the "perp", etc.. As for the copying of evidence....stupid to say the least; at least initially. Wait to hear the comments, suggestions, orders, etc. of whom ever you report the crime to. If they are in left field and take illegal action such as deleting evidence to save someones ass, they are guilty of aiding and abetting and then it is time to report to the police. They can have their IT forensics retrieve whatever data they can....short of scrubbing the disk, their will be enough left on the disk to recover anything that has been deleted.....

by tony hopkinson

How can you do your job as in prosecute the innocent or defend the guilty if you let you personal ethical convictions about right and wrong interfere with your professional ones, ask your lawyer friends and relations.

It's not my fault the world isn't as simple as you believe.
A lawyer who can't suspend their judgement on right and wrong isn't a bad lawyer, just a crap one.

by tcdood

As THE I.T. support person, I have found Porn on desktops, and reported it to upper management. Mostly, it fell on deaf ears. By pushing the issue, I would have brought unwanted attention to the "problem". I believe HR should be made aware of the situation.
Most HR personnel, even though they say they are on your side, will protect the company. If the HR person has any guts, He/she would discretely mention it to the manager, and have him remove it.
I also have the case where the boss brings in his laptop from home, filled with "PORN" pictures. When you are asked to update software, or service packs, it put me in an awkward spot. If you refuse to work on it (for higher ethical or moral grounds), you are insubordinate.
In these cases, I am not talking "illegal" porn. The question must be asked, are you willing to risk your job to maintain the higher ground. Sure, the Manager may be punished, but you may be as well, because you made it an issue. Most companies cannot handle the scandal.
My personal account was when a female boss brought in boxes of company documents from home. While sorting through them, I found a "Personal Massage Product". I discretely put it back in the box, finished sorting, and returned the box. I still think I made the correct choice.

by leee

It's my personal policy not to editorialize except in the possible case of a blog post. The idea was to get feedback and discussion from real-life admins, and I am heartened to see that people feel strongly about their personal ethics and roles in such situations--regardless of the course of action they might ultimately take. The overall message I'm seeing is to "let your conscience (be it formed by law, religion or experience) be your guide."