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They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?

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by clindell

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As the title states I am a Network Administrator at a job where I am on a contract and could go perm soon. I feel the offer is low at 50K in northern California and the north bay and the demands are extremely high and stressful, how much should I expect to make?

I am a one man IT shop for a small company and do EVERYTHING, not just computers and servers, but handle leases of all hardware and copiers and printers the installation and return of leased equipment as well as handle the phone switch (PBX) and voice mail system. Let?s not forget the Cisco VPN concentrator, Cash register systems, purchasing, I review billing on any IT related expense, Cell phones and the 24/7 on call phone support to the remote sales staff or the owners if needed.

Manage LAN/WAN, Windows NT and 2000 Servers, Window 2000 pro and XP pro workstations
Manage Company PBX phone switch and voice mail system
Exchange 2000 Email server with secure Outlook Web Access
Windows 2000 Active Directory administration
Cisco VPN Management
Help desk services for local employees and remote Sales staff and on call as needed
Company website management
Manage company software and licensing
Hardware and software purchasing upgrades and rollouts
Training of employees on new systems
Manage multipurpose copiers, printers and fax machines
Manage leasing of computer systems and multipurpose copiers
Manage all data, phone lines, IT contracts and billing
Manage all Cellular phone services and billing
Manage and maintain company tape data backup system
Advisor to Owners and COO for all data and IT needs

What am I ?

Thanks,

Clindell

196 replies

by ohwell

Unfortunately in this technical enlightened age, any company that employs less than 100 staff palm anything from web development to changing lightbulbs on the IT poeple I know. 50K may be low in CA but for most of us in England & Europe thats good money

by oz_media

I have actually been turning down opportunities in England myself due to lack of cash but when you do the conversion, it's not that bad. I know 50,000 pound would be nice but I think we are talking US dollars here, not quite the same thing.

From what I've seen, jobs I've looked into around London, St.Albans area, 24,000 - 40,000 pound looks about average, in USD that's some good change.

by coldbrew

I did most of what you say your job description is. I am also doing it at my other job along with maintnance and what ever else they come up with. And I make a whoping 25K a year. As of present I am looking for another career b/c I am burnt out and I think the job is overrated. Do what you can and move on if you are not happy.

by gralfus

In the current economy, it may suck to make only 50K and do what you do. But many of us have struggled the past few years just to find a job that doesn't include french fries. I'm extremely thankful to have a job related to my field of study, after 2 years of unemployment. So I would suggest biding your time, getting really good at what you do, keep your resume up to date with your latest skills (not just the job title), and keep looking for other places to work. Other opportunities will present themselves eventually.

by sternzy

I agree, take the experience, update the resume, and when the economy picks up or a job presents itself, take it. When a company takes advantage of their employees to try and save money, it will come back to get them in the long run. My guess is that you are not the only one at that company that is doing a job that could be spanning multiple.

by jkaras

a bit of a whinner. I lived in Cali. for some time and yeah is it expensive to live if you want to be a homeowner, not a renter. I will give you that making 50k is rather small potatoes but I'm making barely 30k for helpdesk. I would jump at an opprotunity to make that much and build a resume as an administrator that I could parley it into mad money. I got into computers only for the payday only to find that the bubble burst and employment opprotunities let alone good salaries are extremly hard to come by. People making the advertized high amounts on tv and in colleges are in actuality people that have been in the industry for 10+ years touting major experience. How many people in this small company do you actually support? How big of a budget do you think they have to employ you? What do you feel is the proper amount that suits your needs? Your list of responsibilities is rather impressive but nothing out of the ordinary nor duties that will completely occupy every moment of your time. I see that on a typical day you will work hard or seriously for 3-4 hours, reviewing leases and expenses are not an everyday thing let alone returning equipment. The only thing that is the hard part is the helpdesk part if your users dont have a clue or the network runs poorly. My advice take it cause there are many people that would undercut you for that job, build the resume and parley into mad money after two+ years, but that's just me.

by clindell

I am 45 years old and have been in the computer biz for almost 10 years, I am not a rookie without experience who has mostly schooling and certifications on my resume. I work for a $50,000,000.00 million a year privately owned company that employs around 120 people and around 60 users. Where do you live making 30K as a help desk and how long have you been in IT? 30K in some parts of the country would be like 60-70K here.

The COO does not give anyone a budget, yet expects all departments? heads to sign off on all purchases or requests related to that department and authorizes purchase as needed. From the records I have seen it looks as though the IT budget is about $500,000.00 a year. Other people I have talked to including a high level manager friend at Intuit say I should be 70K or more even with the amount of people available in this market, this area is a very expensive place to live.

At this time I would say I work hard 7-8 hours a day, believe it or not. I literally feel like taffy being stretched from all sides several times a day and must weigh which problem or task gets priority and sometimes don't take a lunch. The network runs OK, but I have found many things that were not built or configured correctly or lack procedures which then take time to determine correct methodology. The users are about 50/50 good and bad, meaning they need hand holding and the owners need the most hand holding of all, which needs to be treated as delicately as possible; they don?t like to hear it can?t be done that way and even go to their private residence to work on their computers, broadband and VPN.

As far as parleying $50K a year into mad money north of San Francisco, it ain?t going to happen! You need to look at housing prices here. Currently a median single family home is running close to $450,000.00 where I live; try to buy that on 50K a year. If I were in my 20?s 50K a year might seem pretty good but before I changed careers I made close to that 15 years ago working for Jaguar. Surely the person responsible for the health and safety of all the data of a 50M a year company is worth more than an auto mechanic, I was one once, I think I know.

The point here was more of what am I, or what is more fitting of a title as I do everything except manage my own budget? I have been an IT manager & a director between 98 & 01 and did less work and oversaw less than I do now for much more money. I know many of us have lost jobs and many more got into IT hoping for great wages and I make substantially less than I used to.

Is this the way it is going to be? Do a lot more work for a lot less money and if you don?t someone else will? Are we, the experienced senior level network people giving our skills away just to have a job if we can find one?

by jellimonsta

...Yes! I think this field has become a 'work more for less money' scenario. Partly due to the .com bust, partly due to kids coming out of tech schools in the multitude, and partly because it does not take the same skillsets to run an M$ network as it does an AS/400.
.... the beginning of the end! :oP

by jkaras

Trust me when I say it wasnt ment to offend. In your original post you claimed it was a small company not a big one. My terminology of small didnt equate a multi million dollar company, but more along the lines of less than a million a year and a compliment of under 60 users to support.

I work for a local government office of about just under 200 employees. Our equipment is not cutting edge and we are currently in the process of upgrading. I have only been here less than 2 years and when I started they were all using Win95 and word98 not to mention pcs and monitors that are from '93. We just migrated to 2000 and we are getting rid of our NT domains for a 2000 solution. We have a four man crew and we do next to nothing all day. Typical day is printing issues and bad keyboard/mice problems, with the occasional in house program issues. My boss does the type of reports/budget stuff that takes up hardly any time. This is my first office job compared to my previous life of warehouse work (home improvement), retail, UPS worker sorting mail and loading trucks, and other service oriented jobs. My days were so busy and long up to 14 hour days without a full day off while attending community college. Here is very boring and I am more tired just sitting around compared to working non stop. Looking at your post previously to me looked like my current environment vs. the typical big company 5 meetings a day over nothing, constant cubicle moves and a vast array of servers that need constant attention. Yes we have the advantage of a four person compliment vs. just you but it seemed like they didnt have much money to invest in their IT department and judging that it was a three to four management operation if that.

I lived in Stockton, C.A. for nine years and yeah I loved the weather and the people, the constant concerts, the ability to go an 1 1/2 in any direction to go gambling, skiing, big city life in Frisco, and yadda yadda. To own a home is crazy out there and most people from Frisco bought homes in Gault, Stockton, and other small cities and commuted the hour drive. Currently I live in Orlando. Its all the same, nothing but beaches, hicks, messed up streets and highways, and no work or good paying jobs due to its a retirement state and a vacation spot. The pay sucks unless you are a big wig, the compromise is cheap land. You may make squat but just about everyone can afford a house if they really go thru the process. They dont appreciate well so its affordable. Compared to Cali, houses appreciate by the hour due to damand and lack of land. Trust me when I say I'm making the standard for help desk at about $13 an hour. Pay is regulated to area economics to certain extents. I'm making according to my tax return only $200 more than I did in retail. I know a ton of people right now that are way more qualified with way more experience that are out of work currently here. I am rather thankful for this job despite that it isnt meeting my expectations in regards to pay and experience, but I'll take what I can get. Thankfully I dont have a wife and kids to support since I need a roommate and I'm 33.

Yes it is a cold hard fact in today's world that competition is centered on how can business save money by offering less in economic downfalls that our nation is currently in. Not only do we fight eachother for jobs, but we have to contend with outside competition that will do it for far less. i really dont see it changing for the better especially with software being engineered to be more automative requiring less skilled workers only needing help desk duties to keep the office running. After reading your reply I know and dont doubt that you are working far harder than what the pay demands but if you wont work for that pay someone else will, especially a person like me who just wants a chance to make it nedding experience or someone who cant go back to retail and will settle for a moderate paycheck with benefits. If you ask for more they will probably turn you down and replace you with someone who will work for that pay or slightly less, and that's sad but it is reality. To be happy you might have to more to some rural state that doesnt have the IT qualified people that are willing to pay big bucks. What ever you decide good luck, we all need it.

by fdsudds

jkaras , If you only work 3-4 hours a day, no wonder you only make 30k.. You got into the business just for the money, Well it?s people like you that have made this business bad and flooded with people. Why don?t you and the other?s that ?I got into computers only for the payday? go to some other fields so that the ones that are in the computer field, not only to make money, but because they love what they do can find work.
As for clindell, I think you should be making more than 50k for what you are doing and know how you feel. Some of us work a good 8 hours or more and do not get paid what we should. I hope that you get more, but most places now will not pay more because they know that there are people like the 30k guy out there to take your place.
If you don?t get a raise, I would not leave right away. Like someone else said, you can get the experience and build your resume for when things get better (hopefully when we get a democrat in the White House this next election).
Just my opinion.

by glastron

I agree there are to many IT people in it for the money. In the 90's if you didn't know what to go to school for they steered you to IT because "The money is good". Well the .com bust killed that. As far as the Democrats helping....Wait till they start raising taxes and start socialized medicine, then see how many companies can afford to pay you more!

by oz_media

Well it seems that not unlike most most of us, you are 'called' the Network Administrator but are used for everything else.

When I was with my last FT employer, I was EVERYTHING to the company, if it wasn't in someone else's specific job description, it became mine. Including, changing light tubes, watering plants, unclogging the crapper, fixing the sales reps cars as well as the entire service fleet of vans, managing the servers, the VoIP PBX, the CO switch for our area (including the clients that were on it), ALL printed and video presentations and sales software etc. and oh yes, the network and email system.

I was paid a ridiculously low salary and left to venture out on my own, I then resigned as a remote admin for the same company (no in house garbage just netadmin) at more than double my former salary as they realized the cost of replacing me.

I would just smile to yourself and keep it up, you have a job, you are not stuck in a humdrum rut of doing the same thing day in day out, you have more responsibility and therefore will aquire more skills.

Actually judging from what you have listed, you've got it pretty easy. ;-)

OM

by clindell

Actually judging from what you have listed, you've got it pretty easy. ;-)

I sure wish it felt that way, I have almost no time for any personal business during the day, including the time when I try to take a lunch. If I don't leave the building I end up working or aiding in someone?s request.

Maybe in time as I unravel this mess I inherited and try to be proactive I can claim some time back and it won?t seem as hard. I almost quite literally walked into this office without knowing where anything was or what it was (like walking into a dark closet and closing the door), but that it WAS there and was working. There are some records, procedures, notes and a not so up to date password list that causes headaches every time one does not work out as stated.

by oz_media

It wasn't always that way though. As I said, I was cheif, cook and bottle washer for a pathetic paycheck. I made the change, not the company. I got sick of working through lunch (in which case you MUST be paid for it no matter what the meployer says, even if you are on salary).

My problem was a cheap employer who wanted everything for nothing, I said F-O and walked. I was drinking in a local one night and networking with some business owners when an old sales rep said he NEEDE to to come back as everything had gone down the tubes. I said to have his boss cal ME as I wasn't prepared to go back and ASK them for work (cheap buggers!). The boss turned up at the pub a few nights later and gave me a contract which I laughed at and said I was moving to the Island if he wanted help from there. It took a few months of negotiating and sticking to my guns but he eventually folded and met my expectations.

Many, if not most, wouldn't do this though as a paycheck often clouds over being USED by an employer. It takes a loty of nerve and you must be prepared to do you own thing if it doesn't pan out, which I already began to do.

I don't take ANYONE's crap, I'm no rocket scientist that is in worldwide demand but I'm not an idiot either, I would rather work at a coffe shop that appreciates it's staff than make more money working for a clown.

by cedricsatterfield

A friend of mine in Cedar Rapids is IT manager for Stickle Group, a multi million dollar trucking firm/conglomerate. He routinely takes trips to set up ship to shore networks on the southern and eastern coasts, and has been there about 5 years. I have never asked him outright what he makes, but I know that about year 2.5 he was 'frozen' for rasies, perks, etc. It didnt have anything to do with 9/11 as the company is still small enough that Aaron has contact daily with the CEO, CTO, and most of upper management. He is a dept of one plus an intern if he can find one.

He started by not wearing a tie to work....this graduated into gradually casualing down until, at one point, he looked like the standard Jesus-blondish hair, blue eyes, flowing beard, and Birks. They finally asked what was wrong and Aaron replied that he didnt have time for personal upkeep because every job involving a plugged in appliance seemed to cross his desk rather than the computer stuff.

He now has latitude and budget to hire intern(s) with impunity, and they are sending him to graduate courses for Linux mgt, and security/network forensic analysis. Hopefully in 6 months I can convince my wife to let me move to Cedar Rapids and intern for a few months.

by jellimonsta

You are not really doing anything out of the ordinary for most network administration positions. I perform almost all of the mentioned tasks as well as a few others in an IT shop of 4. I have been doing it for 4 years and I am still fighting for the Net Admin title.
Like the above people have stated, you have a job in which you are going to gain experience if not instant financial wealth. Gain that experience and move on when the opportunity presents itself.

by jgross71

When times are tough the first on the chopping block are the IT folks. Projects are put off and necessary upkeep and upgrades are put on hold. When times pick up these companies then spend a fortune undoing all of the neglect and their business is affected. It is the old story of penny wise and dollar foolish. When things turn around and demand rises move on to better paying positions.

by dc_guy

You say the demands are high and stressful. What exactly do you mean? Sixty-hour weeks? Are you on call 24/7? Do problems pop up all the time that verge on disaster, so you have to be impossibly fast at diagnosis and repair?

That kind of lifestyle makes a person get old really fast. Inhibits your ability to spend time at home with your family if you have one, or to acquire one if you don't.

$50K is not a "fair" wage for that kind of responsibility. However, since the dot-com bust the Bay Area is an employer's market. There are probably ten desperate, unemployed people out there who are genuinely qualified to do your job and would be happy to work for less.

You don't say how old you are. If you are still in your first decade of work you're just paying your dues and you'll have to be patient about pulling in more money, especially in a region with a depressed market.

So unless you're willing or even eager to relocate, you'll have to settle for what you can get. You could perhaps get a modest increase by moving to the L.A. area, on top of the bundle you'd save on housing, but people who are accustomed to S.F. don't usually feel at home in L.A.

Speaking of which, the further away you get from the Pacific Rim, the stranger it all seems. I had to relocate to the East Coast to find work at all, and every day feels like an episode of a bad soap opera. Life in California has more in common with Europe than it does with any place east of the Rockies.

by maxwell edison

.
For the most part, you do pretty much the same kinds of things that I do, give or take a few specific tasks.

What do they consider me?????

The scape-goat, of course.

by tomsal

..yep...definitely..

after 8 years total employment time here of a barely 10 year old company, I've become used to be blamed for things that are done on days I'm even out sick or on vacation. ;)

Ahh yes the joys of IT!!

You get used to it after a while.

by admin

As if I didn't do a thing to KEEP them running when I'm here ~LoL~

I really think certain people think that they just "magically" have problems while I'm gone and never really when I'm here since they run smoothly to the end-monkey :)

by hal 9000

Maxwell you have hit on the perfect description and what any title should actually be!

I just love the way that you alway get "But I've done nothing!" or "What have you done to our computers?" even when you only work as a consultant and have not been there for several months. I regularly send out update notices which are never followed but it is always my fault when they much up the system.

Like recently a 600 P3 with 128 MEG of RAM running XP Pro without any AV and it is my fault when it gets an infection even though I've never actually seen this particular unit as they bought in in from "HOME" but it was my fault when it broke.

Col

by oz_media

Yes, Max summed t up quite well.

What's really funny is that when I busted my ass 9+ hours perday for 8 hours pay and did EVERYTHING under the sun, the bosses always asked each other "what does Oz do all day?" "Is he just playing games or what?" THE NERVE!!! I never played mroe than a few hours per day and that was usually a LAN game WITH the bosses. :-P

Now I hear nothing, it's soooooo quiet, like the little town I live in since escaping the rat race.

I find though that NOBODY ever makes a mistake or screws up a computer, other than me when onsite of course. The user is always innocent and I just seem to bring all this bad luck with me on a site visit like an alien controlling a car on th efreeway, everything all of a sudden has a problem that just magically appeared.

Yes, I was, am, and probably will always be 'the scape goat'.

Thank you Max for an insightful job descirption, it will make my contract renewals so much easier when under duties it just says "take the blame" under position it will say 'scape goat'.

Well done sir!

by y2kpursuer

Fukt. To me anyway, If you decide to take on more responsibility.

An out of work, What am I really too.
New Yorker.

Al

by worker bee

If you think you deserve more money for all you do then the time to ask for it is now, before you become an employee.

You have been working contract for them so they know what you can do and they know that they want you. You will never be in a better position to bargain. Even if they can find someone cheaper it would take time for someone new to get up to speed on all the stuff you do. Don't be afraid to climb those golden stairs. If they say no you can always give in, although I would recommend you "think it over" for a few days to make them sweat. Admittedly there is some risk involved here but the risk seems small compared to the potential gain. Good luck.

by tomsal

Welcome to the wonderful world of the IT professional in the year 2004. Your whole job description/list of duties is almost as if you were reading my own list of duties and job description. For YEARS (5 years to be exact) I was the lone IT man for our company. There was one other IT person who happened to be my own brother but he was the sole developer, so *all* (I'm being sarcastic) he did was develop and manage the proprietary software that became the foundation of this company. The only duty you listed that I didn't do was manage a Cisco VPN. We have a Sonicwall VPN instead. ;)

My brother has left the company and now its been 2 1/2 years since my department expanded to include 5 total members now, so I no longer do things alone anymore.

But if it makes you happier when I was doing all by myself I was even breaking 40k a year. So count your blessings.

by clindell

OK so you earn 30K, 40K, 50 or even 60 or 70K for your duties and responsibilities, BUT where do you live? Cost of living has a dramatic affect on your ability to save.

50 or 60K in the San Francisco bay area might be chicken scratch compared to 40K in Little Rock, Arkansas when you factor in housing and other costs of housing, gas, insurance, bridge tolls, food, etc.

by oz_media

Perhaps instead of trying to solve the unsolvable (unless you can get a raise, in which case you should) maybe you could just quit, move and find a job that YOU want to do that pays what YOU feel you're worth?

by clindell

OK so you earn 30K, 40K, 50 or even 60 or 70K for your duties and responsibilities, BUT where do you live? Cost of living has a dramatic affect on your ability to save.

50 or 60K in the San Francisco bay area might be chicken scratch compared to 40K in Little Rock, Arkansas when you factor in housing and other costs of housing, gas, insurance, bridge tolls, food, etc.

by onbliss

Man, health is important. Can you move out of the bay area into a smaller town? Is that an option you have? Smaller cities/towns can have a less stressful life.

take care of your health. good luck.

by hal 9000

What are you making now? The only reason that any company would want to move an outside contractor "In House" is to save money so if you are only making slightly more where you presently are it is a reasonable thing that the company is offering.

However if you are making a lot more presently the company is trying to get you cheap but no matter what you have to realize that any full time employment will result in a drop in income from your present position but an increase in benefits like Medical and the like perhaps in light of your impending Nervous Breakdown you should take the job at least that way you will have the Medical Coverage to pay the bills when you hit the rocks instead of having to go to work to make the money to pay for your therapy.

Col

by clindell

In this case the contract has an easy buyout, as my employer (the outsourcing Company) is owned by the son of the owner of the company I service, they are inter-related. My wages are 50K a year or $25K for the 6 months with NO benefits or paid time off and I think the total contract is 60K for the year. The employer is saving money by not having to pay benefits currently and my employer has said they would pay me the same I am currently making plus benefits.

The benefits would be good if I do snap and I am already taking anti-depressants to deal with the stress.

by tomsal

"The benefits would be good if I do snap and I am already taking anti-depressants to deal with the stress."

Sincerely man that is not good. When work affects your health you should definitely think long and hard about whether you should stay or long for employment elsewhere. I take that seriously, I've seen people close to me in my life get very sick over work and very depressed. I've recently hat a bout with depression (but not over work) and talk about feeling low and worthless even trapped...screw it! I'll be damned if I let work cause that to me. Life by itself is hard enough sometimes.

Btw, point well taken were we live does affect how much "worth" are pay scale has to us. And here (NJ) isn't the cheapest state in the Union but I know for a fact its MUCH cheaper cost of living than were you are.

That's one of the reasons I resisted going to CA years back is I found out the costs of living out there!

But now I day dream of moving to another state that is AS expensive as cali if not more so (Hawaii).

Oh well perhaps one day I'll win the lotto and can live ANYWHERE I chose to.

(yeah right that'll happen!)

by hal 9000

And then go on "Stress Leave!"

Man you've got it bad haven't you? I've been lucky in the fact that I've never considered what I do as work and I love it but then again M$ do call us "Certified Partners" over here the certified bit means that you should be committed to a mental institution generally permanently and I at least get a good laugh out of that particularly when ever I see the look on the M$ guys & galls faces when I mention it.

But I still vividly remember back to when I was at IBM when Mainframes where the only real computers available we had these multi million $ units with what could best be called Main Boards that fell over so much that we had a 6 month backlog on replacement parts now if you really want some stress try telling some guy who's just shelled out a couple of mill for a new computer that it will be down for at least 6 months that's IV Valium time so I did the only thing possible and had a look at the board and found after a couple of hours a bad tranni {lousy 5 cent part taking out several thousand $ worth of hardware and costing millions in down time} well I started replacing these filed bits with better ones and they never broke again do you think IBM was pleased "Hell NO" I was sent to purgatory for having a negative stock of 60 of these boards on my stock list but I was making them money hand over fist as the things as a reco unit where a couple of K and it was only costing a couple of cents to get this money but they where IBM after all and you do not do what you aren't told to.

So as punishment I was sent to Martech who at that time made fuel injection controllers for race cars normally the guys sent there lasted 3 months before begging for a transfer but in my case after 2 years they got the idea that I liked it there having to work weekends when the season was on "Free passes to every race motor meeting and being treated like a God by the tech staff" I could live with that very well but then again I did start out designing race cars so I was only returning home where I really liked it. Anyway after 2 years of being there I was approached and told that I was being transfered back to the main operation I told them that I wasn't interested and I would quite happily stay where I was "you should have seen the look on his face particularly after reminding him that I was a Mech Engineer as well as an Electronic Engineer seems that they had forgotten that one" so their punishment was in fact nothing more than fun for me. Well eventually the ultimatum came down and I just handed him my notice great way to negotiate they throw down the gauntlet and you hand them a resignation which was promptly torn up and they went off to think of another way to punish me. Actually it was punishment working with the mainframes compared to where I was then and I was eventually told that if I promised never again to muck with their main-boards I would be returned to where I was but with a promotion to State technical manager my response was well if you can supply me with main-boards that work and I'm not waiting months with your customers screaming down my back I'll gladly never mess with the things again but if you put me back into that position if I can fix them I "Bloody Well Will" and to hell with your internal politics.

Anyway what I'm trying to get across is no matter how stressful a job may be you have got to have fun there or you will go insane so if you can not get by without laughing several times a day and I do mean genuine laughing not the insane kind where no matter what you do you are going to mess things up more you need a "Mid Life Crisis" mine resulted in leaving the boss and starting my own business now I worry more about keeping the staff paid and work longer sleep less but still have fun.

Col

by clindell

OK, so I have a job, but what is of more value a person who keeps a company's network running and data safe and keeps everyone working so as to keep efficiency and productivity up for or a guy working on cars and owns his own shop?

I made more than 75K as an IT manager and could make more than 75K as an automotive shop owner, which I have done before and it is starting to look more and more attractive.

If companies aren?t willing to pay fair compensation why work for them? That is how I am starting to feel.

by pgm554

The economy is coming back and is picking up.
Yeah,right!

The SF bay area housing cost have risen 17% over last year .The avg price home in Santa Clara county is OVER $520K.

Avg price house in Allegheny County(Pittsbugh,Pa) is $85K.And this is comparing apples to apples.

So if you make $50K /year in Pitt and applied a ratio of income to housing costs, you would need to have an income of $305K.
Not a whole lot of jobs are paying that here right now.
So the joke here is ,one of the only places you can make $300K a year and not be able to buy a house.

God ,I love this place,but man ,these prices are nuts!

Trying to move back ,after having moved away is a real struggle.

Workers in the bay area are some of the most productive in the world,but the price ratio here is going way out of wack.

We are going to reach a point when the real estate value of this area is going to be more than the land value of a state like Ohio or Alabama.

by oz_media

That is also a major reason I do my own thing now. I am an INterprovincially Licensed Mechanic and certified air care technician as well as a member of Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).

When I left, the company realized the cost of relacing me, as I said before, they came back to me with a better offer. I turned it down and moved anyway. I live in a comlpete ZEN town, hardworking people but very laid back, Killer Whales and sea Lions just off our shores and places to kayak etc., total tranquility.

I have a four car garage, where I restore and build cars as a hobby/side job. I run a artist management and promotion company AND I still remote network at almost double my previous full time salary for the same company. Someone gave me the idea and I ventured out and did it, what do you know IT WORKED!!

I COULD run a shop, but that's not fun. I could be a F/T IT staff member but as you know, THAT's no fun either, I could be in th emusic nidustry F/T and put up with the labels and artist squabbles too, but that's also no fun. So I dabblle here and there now as neede and make WAY mroe money than any F/T position I've held.

What did it take? Big kahona's! A leap of faith, stepping out of my comfort zone, taking a risk (no more than a server reboot with the fingers crossed), and DOING it. I sat and bitched and whined about my F/T job for a year, I bitched about the city (which as a sales rep was exciting but I got sick of it once it became over populated), I complained about money and NO recreational time, I complained about it all.

A VERY sucessful independant trader and copywriter who was/is my mentor and personal God told me to "JUST DO IT". I will never do it if I try to [plan it out carefully, it take a lep of faith, like bungy jumping, you know it will be OK but you're still scared to take that ineveitable doozy of a first step.

If you WANT it bad enough, "JUST DO IT" (no I don't work for Nike). You can talk about it until the cows come home but you will never be truly happy until you actually MAKE it happen, it won't happen by itself.

NOTE: I too was suffering from severe anxiety attacks (which were later found to be due to an allergic cafeine reaction as well as stress)and was just not happy with anything. Just ask the peers here how I used to be over negative and trod on anyone I could, that truly isn't me. I am happy go lucky and enjoy being alive, I just needed to find a place where I could realize it once again. For the past couple of days, I've been back in Vancouver city for some work (I still have a studio here too) and simply cannot wait to get back to my quiet little town where the water is as still as glass at night and I can kayak within 100' of the whales again, the picture in my head keeps me going in the city, the reality when I leave is what keeps me alive.

Money? I'd have done it for half, but fortunately I make more than I used to, then again, I have time to do what I want to as well.

by jamesrl

I have 19 years in the industry and worked my way through a few Fortune 100s.

At the height of my career, I had a staff of 30.

Then came the layoff - hopelessly optimistic, I thought I'd be off a couple of months, and would use the severence to pay down the mortgage.

I great skills, a good network, great references.

I was out 3 months before my first interview. Came a close second out of 500 applicants. Almost landed a job a few months later, until an internal hiring freeze put a stop to it.

Had lots of people tell me I was overqualified. Lots of people saying I needed silly certs that weren't useful in the roles I applied for.

Ten months after the layoff I landed a business analyst contract for six whole weeks. That turned into another 5 month contract. Both at about 50% of what I was making before. I was glad for the work, glad to get exposure to an industry that I hadn't worked in before, glad to gain some contacts and references. Glad to not be collecting employment insurance. Glad to be able to pay the mortgage.

The whole pay structure of IT has changed. Unless you have amazing skills in the hottest areas, you aren't going to be able to get what you used to - get used to it.

When I finally convinced someone to hire me, I was extatic. True the pay wasn't great - but I have a purpose, I have a role to play, I have respect, I have challenges to meet - I am alive and happy to be working.

Think about that.

If IT makes you happy in other ways, stick with it.

If you want to be an auto mechanic - go for it. Different strokes for different folks - different challenges to.

If you measure your self worth by the money you make, then you must always feel inferior to someone.

If you measure your self worth by your family, your friends and your accomploshments - both at work and outside of work, then you need not feel inferior to anyone.

James

by hal 9000

And start your own business at least in the beginning I was happier even if I had to work a bloody side harder but I have always remembered something that I was taught by one of the people who I used to work with

"No matter how bad things get and how much of a panic people are in the one saving grace is that no one is likely to die if you can't get it fixed now!"

Needles to say I don't work in the medical area any more either when you can have a somewhat laid back attitude to work which by no means, means that you do not take it seriously but that you don't let it get to you things will be better. I sometimes think of going back to fixing Sewing Machines after all I could do a service properly in 15 minutes and now that is a $165.00 fee but then I remember the neurotic women that drove me away in the first place and the computers beginning to look better even though at times I've been tempted to try placing one box behind some heavy earthmoving plant tracks and backing up over the box a couple of times or just throwing one into a swiming pool but I didn't have a long enough extension lead so the thing might have worked when they pulled it out.

Or you could always do as I did once and kill a dead LT when someone pissed me off I just grabbed the LT and started bashing it against a work desk with bits and pieces flying everywhere it was amassing just how many people left me alone after that "if only for a short time anyway" at least I got my composure back and it really felt "BLOODY GREAT."

Anyway you have got to learn to have fun and never allow things to get to you no matter how bad they get remember that no matter what happens no one is likely to die if it takes you 2 days to fix instead of the required 10 seconds.

Col

by clindell

I wish moving were an option! As it is now I drive 45 minutes to an hour. Anywhere around the greater SF bay area there is traffic, and the closer you get to SF the worse it gets, but there are better choice of jobs and pay, but is all that stress of commuting and living in your car for hours worth it? I don't think so! I live on the out skirts of the greater SF bay area and traffic is bad there due to lack of roads to handle the traffic from folks who can't afford to live any closer.

Anywhere up here if you move you run into the same stuff, it's a catch 22 and due to my wife's need for working in sales she needs to be within 90 minutes of the SF bay area for tradeshow exhibit sales that are flat which adds to our stress.

With the dot-com bust a few years back and our own local telecom valley bust at the same time there is a glut of IT peeps ready to work and still more fresh out of school. My savings grace is I am multifaceted and have some very good real world experience that some people don't get even after 20 years of work.

If we could move where would we go? First we need jobs to go to before we could move, moving without a job to go to would be the definition of insanity for middle aged married homeowners.

I do have a couple of r?sum??s out and hope one of them makes an offer, it would be closer to home and should pay more of an IT industry standard wage with full benefits. One thing I have learned is family owned business?s tend to pay less but play less head games than corporate America where wages tend to be a bit higher but with backstabbing from your peers.

Why can?t we all just get along?

by onbliss

...but I bet you can't taken one with those kind of work responsibilities.

Maybe you guys can look for work in a smaller city and move there instead of looking something just near the SF area.

I am sure you are aware drastic situations might need some drastic approaches.

by oz_media

I also live in a VERY expensive Province in Canada, in fact the highest cost of living in the country. Highest taxation etc.

We get HAMMERED at every chance, but we also get to live in Beuatiful British Columbia. If I lived in our county's capitol, I would tax the buggers out West who had such a nice place to live too.

It's worth it though, we have everything and then some. Industry, Nature that is unsurpassed, freedom, mulitculturalism (thus becoming culture), and so much more.

I have to be somewhat shocked at the price of housing in SFBay area though, I LOVE SF Bay, it is truly a hotpot for culture and diversity and is highly entertaining. One thing that baffles me a little though is that ALL the houses are the same, tons of character and very 'Victorian' but they are all the same. On a tour many years ago I think I reember learning about a group of four or five developers who built the majority of the homes there, (correct me if I'm wrong) thus the identical structures. How can these homes be so expensive without any diversity? ON second thought the latest trend in Vancouver seems to be monstrous structures that go from back fence to front sidewalk, so much so that the city has clamped down on new building rules that ensure that the house can only take up a certani percentage of land and a certian percentage of greenery MUST be included (otherwise we would see too much cement and no grass). So even though these ugly and horrible (I won't include the local racial name they are tagged with) homes, they are selling upwards of 1.2 > 1.4 Million, and rapidly at that.

So I suppose for a home in SFBay, with the character they have, it is not so unreasonable afterall. I just think clone homes are not very impressive I suppose.

by pgm554

That is for Santa Clara County ,and those are tract(clone)home prices.
San Francisco /Palo Alto / Menlo Park are literally in the millions.

I rent an in-laws quarter's from a venture capitialist down here(SF peninisula) and his place is valued at $ 4.5 million.This would be a $600 to $800K place in almost in any other city.

But between the weather and being about 20 minutes from either SF or the Silcon Valley does have its' advantages.

But,it is a two edged sword.

by hal 9000

NO green stuff like no mowing no upkeep but most importantly no work when you are supposed to be away from work.

After all you do not need to spend all week slaving your guts out only to have to do it unpaid on the weekends as well just to keep the house and land looking good. My ideal is green concrete everywhere but I'm not allowed that by "She Who Must Be Obeyed" so I stay on call 24/7 and guess who gets to mow the yard? She is now talking about decreasing the garden beds and lawn area so I just might get my way eventually.

Col

by oz_media

Perhaps that's why I'm not married now, I despise being TOLD what to do, read into 'suggestive idea' and don't fall for the guilt trip either. If I'm left to do it I will, just don't tell me to do it I don't even like being ASKED to do it.

Anyhow that aside, I could not live without the tress and greenery that I've become so accustomed to here. Here a pic of a house just 10 minutes down the road, http://tinyurl.com/ywka6 .

Trees! 10 minutes from there, Pacific Ocean and whale watching, cool huh?

That's why I am having such a hard time moving home to England, I would miss nature too much as I've become spoiled here but try not to take it all for granted.

Anyhow, I borrow my neighbours lawn tractor (as I haven't been here long since leaving the cement graveyard of Vancouver) and it makes for a fun afternoon drinking a cold beer and driving around on my lawn, weeeee.

Yup, it's hard not to become a tree huger but there's so much foresty infustry here that employs my new friends and I understand more about what they do so it's easier to accept. If only they could stop shipping it all to the US and Japan, it would be so much better. There is a horse logging company up the highway that could log their land perpetually without ever depleting the forst they own. They make just enough to live, pay a few employees and pay the mortagage, so much more enviro friendly and still enough to sustain yourself.

by pgm554

Caffiene attacks,eh?

I recently had to give up Diet Mountian Dew,chest pains ,nervous twitches and anxiety.I thought I had heart problems,my doc asked me how much DMD I drank a day(about 2 to 3 liters) and said cut it out and see what happens.

It has been like night and day.

I am down to 1 diet Pepsi.But I did enjoy that DMD cafeine rush at 6 in the AM.

by onbliss

...poor soul. He had terrible headaches in the morning. I knew a person who needed to chew plastic to keep him going...like the straws, lolli-pop sticks etcetra...

by pgm554

The life blood of programmers and exam time college students.
What a hard habit to break.

Withdrawl symptoms include,migraine,irritability and a lust for that carbonated fix.

by oz_media

Well my case was a freind owns a coffe bar and I own a LaCimbali espresso machine.

A four shot espresso to wake up, a four shot Mocha from the coffe bar (hey I built his website, caffeine is free!!) a few Cokes through the day, a Coke and a few chocolate bars in the evening, then a Coke and a Dairy Milk in bed, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yup, I binge good when I'm on to something!

by hal 9000

When any form of work starts to affect your health it a really bad thing and something that should be avoided if at all possible.

That is probably over here there are a lot of people dropping out of the rat race and taking lower paying jobs bu find they are happier as they have more of a life or maybe it's a better type of life and at least here it isn't where you live that counts as people in Sydney one of the most expensive places in AU are dropping out faster that most other places and still managing to survive. Maybe it is the way most of us look at life and what we consider as successful. If a lot of people would chose willingly to have a lower income and a more fulfilling job they may find that they are a bloody side happier and healthy but then again what the Hell would I know as I'm a self confessed work-oholic.

Col

by hal 9000

You could do as one Government department here did. They had a big print run on their new HP color laser printer which was networked in senior management office well they needed to run off 4 -5 thousand double sided copies of some broucher so they decided that rather than send the printing job over the network and have someone stand beside the printer feeding it as required they would move the printer.

Sounded reasonable until the person chosen decided to take it down some steps on a trolley without strapping it on well it bounces quite well I'm told even if it did spew several bits and pieces around the place {they are still picking them up occasionaly now 8 months latter.} But it gets even better it didn't matter that it was cheaper to replace than repair they lacked the money in the budget for new equipment so they had it repaired for about double the cost of a new one.

The weird thing was that the person responsible was promoted for doing this as it seems that incompetence is rewarded with a promotion or maybe they just wanted him out of the office and the promotion was the easy way out but the whole thing is nuts!

Probably why I no longer do any Government work, I suppose.

Col

by oz_media

I don't know if they sell Jolt cola there, it was taken off the shelves here for a year or so but is back in full force. "All the sugar and twice the caffeine" is their motto.

When I was a hyperactive teenager, they had a focus group and I wanted the $40.00 for beer so I went to this big warehouse and got to samle the new product Jolt Cola. We got a 6-pack to go with the $40.00 so I ended up buying Rum instead of beer and I was hooked. After it was stopped for a year I got back into Coke and didn't look back.
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by dr. al olaimi

First of all you have listed your "job description", and this is very healthy for all parties evolved. The least to say you do not need a management consultant to do it for you!

My advise (based on what your assessment) is:
A. Develop an original Job Description for your post that would reflect your current workload.
B. try to find any title that match yours, and make sure that you have common criteria in the work environment i.e. company size, clients served, company's capital, operations working hours, etc.
C. Put a proposal to IT consulting houses, where you would be specifically asking for "potential" outsourcing staff that would full fill your pre-defined job-description.
D. Get the proposals altogether and feed your intellect with the "admin" information that they would feed you in.
F. Draft a "reasonable" contract for current employer that would "contract" you for another year, where you will put a clear job description and work load time table, and leave a space where you would be able to "second" staff for you to manage them.
G. Try to get into a very smooth negotiation (socially as much as possible) with the owner for ease of presentation of such "self-request"
G.1 during the discussions or "camouflaged" negotiations try to emphasize the outsourcing concept.
G.2 presents the idea that you "will" be scouting such "concept"
G.3 update you?re CEO (directly) with the results of shopping around for such outsourcing consulting companies, without any comments from your side, and leave him/her get into some real figures and costs.
G.4 Increase your presence and try to think-loudly with him/her about the cost-effectiveness.
G.5 try to drag your discussions in scheme that would be informative not self-promotional way.
H. Present the Job Description to him/her for personal thoughts, with a bit of benchmarked comparison with what is in the proposals you are conveying.
I. remind them all that your contract is about to expire. and you are willing to "re-new" the contract, but after revisiting some issues.
J. make sure that your CEO is aware about the notion that you got some idea about the prices and most likely they would presume that it would cost them lot more to hire someone else with such "pre-defined" tasks.
K. Level-up the discussion with them about a better terms in either direction, contracting or permanent employment.
L. you are ready to push for a better situationing with clearer vision, because you are now more than confident that you are "Adding-Value" to this $50MM private business ;)
M. Try to set an smaller organization within the company as to be the "IT Function" dept.

Who knows maybe you may not find a better pay, rather you might end up hiring others to split the work load with you and escalate you resume to include some managerial experience added to it!

At the end, time is the governor overhear, how much time is left before your contract expires? ;)

With such caliber of yours, I presume you would not fined real problems getting hired internationally with triple the pay (as a mid-to-large networks trouble shooting consultant!)

Good luck

Dr. Al Olaimi
olaimi@infonovation.com

by kairee

You mentioned that you work for a "small" company but didn't specify how small. Depending on the real size (in terms of revenues, profits, etc) you could be paid very well.

The situation you find yourself in is not at all uncommon. A number SMBs need IT help but don't understand the level of effort and even if they did still couldn't pay more than what they are paying.

If you are in a secure position, try negotiating for other perks....flex time, extra vacation....or even 1 conference or training program a year. Sometimes it's easier in SMBs to get some of the little perks that are tightly controlled in larger organizations.

by mlayton

You are where I was several years ago. I started as network administrator at a little under $35 on the East Coast, managing a Novell Network for 30 people and their Panasonic PBX. They had contract help before, and I was the first network admin. The company grew. By the time I left, I had a Masters, I was directing overseas operations of IT, and had a salary around $75K. And even with the international travel, etc., I was still managing the PBX and advisor to COO and on call 24/7 - and doing everything you listed here (you didn't list going to the COO's house to support wife and children on computers or service his PBX - but yeah, that too). Go permanent as Network Administrator. Submit a proposal to change your title to I.T. Manager (which indicates Information Technology and encompasses more than a data network). Find which of the tasks listed is your passion. Dedicate yourself to finding out all you can about that aspect - and then look for a job that can focus you in the right direction. Good Luck.

by mlayton

... find someone in the office that has an interest in what you do. Take them under your wing, train them a little. Then submit a proposal to have them support you, at least part-time. In my case, the Warehouse Guy eventually became network administrator. It helps with the stress levels to have someone you can count on to back you up, believe me.

by it-manager

where i live, i do all what you do + housecalls for the CEO, wife and children, brother and father of CEO and their families,3 other branches (not mentioning fuel expenses)update websites and media, work on catalogues all that for less than 15k.

What do say about that.....??

I live in Lebanon, Middle East.

by hal 9000

It's a must do to go out to every ones home and secure their computer if they have access to the company network. God I fondly remember the days when I had to go out to these type of calls easy work and at least I was well looked after almost force feed at times.

It's the change from the office that makes the real difference as it allows you to unwind a bit before having to go back and tackle that impossible problem that you've been wrestling with.

Col

by clindell

(you didn't list going to the COO's house to support wife and children on computers or service his PBX - but yeah, that too).

Well I do that to and thought I did post that somewhere and I go to the owners home for theirneeds also. And did I mention we are a 50M a year company?

by hal 9000

To take your mind off work if only for a short time.

I did this by buying a fish tank and setting it up and watching them swim around it is really quite relaxing but as I'm a lazy sod I got a really big one as it requires far less work and that is something that I find important. I don't need to spend 20 hours a day working at the office and then come home to do more.

You need some form of relaxation so find something totally unrelated to work to do that doesn't require too much time and is very peaceful it will help with the stress and depression no end as you will not be appreciated for killing your self in the attempt to keep things right.

Col

by karnagetyme

Dear clindell,
I find it hard to beleive that the company that you are working for has decided to hire you on at the low 50K a year living in one of the most expensive areas of the United States and you are basically doing everything by yourself! You are being taken advantage of terribly and should find another place to work. Perhaps then your "Company" will know just how valuable you are and were. You should be the CIO and have a staff of at least a few good people working for you in the low 50K a year! It would seem to me that there would be many places in your neck of the woods that would be glad to have a person with your talent and skills. Good Luck.

by clindell

I found it hard to believe myself. Only those people who live and work in the Marin/Sonoma county areas could truly understand how much it costs to live here, but that is our choice and for some a need. The fact is I am doing everything myself, though I don't think the company really knows what this job takes to do and it is not that different than many others who do similar jobs. The bad part about this is that it is an employers market and they are taking advantage of those who need jobs and an income.

I read in my local paper last night where a local employer was looking for a senior MS networking tech and paying 35-40K for full time, they have no idea what it takes to be a senior tech and why would you trust your data to someone who makes less than 40K where that income is almost at poverty level.

by krazykowboyslady

First of all is it an open ended contract i.e. are you on contract indefinitely or is there a type of evaluation date and you will be hired or your contract expires? Secondly, since you are on contract, you are not yet the Network Administrator for that company. You are a Contracted IT Consultant, which makes you self-employed, and except for the Cellular Services you pretty much do everything a Network Administrator does. One last thing at 50K I don't care if it's northern California or Southern Antartica in this day's economic situation, you better ride that train until the track runs out. I worked for a company on contract until one day they announced the plant was shutting down and as Acting Industrial Engineer I got the privilege of tracking all the Capital Assets (mostly machinery), which has nothing to do with Engineering. After most of the equipment was shipped to Mexico, my job was shipped out permanently...

by pccoach

network admin, help desk, procurment, contract admin, database manager, technical trainer...you mean all of those things aren't part of being a network administrator? the support you offer is invaluable...the catch is "support". Support for IT is akin to the support secretaries of the past are familiar with...the place wouldn't run without you yet you are not paid your worth and you are rewarded for your worth by more work. go figure!

by clindell

For those of you who may have read or followed this I no longer work for the company that I had been working for. I was hired by a headhunter for a 6 month contract to hire, little did I know that the placement Co. was owned by the son of the company?s president where I worked causing a direct conflict of interest when I needed an advocate to speak up for me.

As more and more projects kept piling on I went to the COO with a list and asked her to prioritize that list, which she did not do. Doing so would have made her look incompetent since there were to many things to do in a reasonable timeframe or even overtime if she had agreed to let me work, which she didn?t.

Soon after I asked for a priority list from her she requested another temp to help, which I later found out, I was to train and then be replaced. I was told to train my replacement or I had to leave. I opted to leave feeling that I was working in a very bad and manipulative situation and leaving the company I worked for high and dry and missing lease and other deadlines.

You should have seen her face when I said I would leave!

It took two months but I have now found work again. This job is a 10 minute drive from my home as opposed to 60 minutes and I am paid 25% more than before for a good company with a great boss and I don?t have to do everything under the sun and I work as part of a team with realistic objective and goals.

What a difference! :-)

by skidoggeruk

A lot of people are stuck in the same kind of situation and don't chance moving on. "Better the devil you know." Genuinely pleased for you. Did they try to negotiate when you said you were leaving? or was it to difficult for them to "take it back" by then? Loss of face, etc.

by clindell

Didn't even try to negotiate, they would have let me go in two weeks anyway after I trained my replacement. Though I left on my own and know it was the right thing to do I felt sick when I left wondering if I could make it on my savings for a while, expecting to fight unemployment since I walked out of a hostile workplace and would have to prove that; I am still waiting for my hearing. I told my wife we would get through this and when I was working again I would pay back our savings account, she was very stressed about it but knew I did the right thing.

I feel like a thousand pounds has been lifted off my back and get home from work with time enough to wonder what to do? I do want to say that I took a job with less responsibility and less pay than I would have liked but what I have now is still 25% more $$$ than I had with less driving time and it is a fair wage for where I live and what I am doing.

by jkaras

That's really great news that all worked out for the best for you. More money, better environment, and you didnt have to move! Probably the best part of it was the ability to have the satisfaction to tell them to take this job and shove it. I told a boss that once and they eventually fired me when stepping down from management, man it felt good to say it and it still puts a smile on my face to this day so it was worth it for my own sanity but no so much for my career. That job was great and horrible, teaching me alot about myself and do's and dont's.

On a side note how is Cali these days? I miss the beautiful weather and the excitement that Cali has to offer. I just dont miss the price of living!! :)

by dc_guy

The cost of living in central California (the San Francisco-Sacramento region) is indeed high -- housing prices are the highest in the nation. This is preposterous since the economy there has not recovered from the burst of the dot.com bubble. Congratulations to Cindell for finding a good job but don't let his experience tempt a thousand of you to migrate to the Bay Area.

Southern California (San Luis Obispo south to the border including L.A. and San Diego) is a different world in many ways. It went through its bubble-bursting experience right after Perestroika because its particular bubble was the aerospace industry. A decade and a half later it's recovering passably well and the cost of living has been as least slightly normalized. L.A.'s traffic is now only the nation's third worst and it's still the Capital City of the Pacific Rim: there are arguably more Spanish- than English-language radio stations.

The true "Northern California" starts where the Wine Country counties -- the northern outpost of the S.F. region -- end. Eureka, Redding, and its other cities are exactly as distant from S.F. as S.F. is from L.A., and as close to Oregon as L.A. is to Mexico. (Check a map and you'll see that San Francisco is at the precise midpoint of the California coastline, not in the north part of the state at all.) The economy there is in transition. Logging is losing its place as our major industry because somebody forgot to re-plant all those trees. Elder care is rapidly replacing it (at least on the North Coast) as a new generation of retirees seems to prefer redwood trees, seventy-degree summer days, and entire counties with five-figure populations to the hurricanes, alligators, sunburns, and Spring Break chaos of their grandparents' retirement mecca. Our main export is our children. The cost of living is peanuts ($300K can buy a nice house on acreage and water is practically free), but there's only work if you're a doctor, nurse, or other health care professional. The largest IT shop has TWO Macs.

by clindell

Doing better but still not where it was. There is still much competition for work and not many jobs being advertised, but the headhunters I worked with said they have been seeing a slight increase in contract help and contract to hire.

Where I live in the North Bay (Santa Rosa) the job market is tight and housing expensive. When you go to the bigger areas like San Francisco or San Jose there are more jobs but housing is very expensive and in many cases is cost prohibitive. So that means very long commutes, and I don't feel it is worth it!

I feel very lucky and fortunate!

by oz_media

I worked at a job where I hired 20 new people per week, and fired 20 throughout the next week.

They would often be quite bummed at being let go, but knew that was the nature of the business and that no amount of seniority would help.

I always kept in toudh with most of the people and had a few beers on Friday night with an ever increasing party. Almost ALL of them, wet on to fid beter jobs that they were happier with, I found many of them new caeers myself from contacts in the area.

ANY time I have ever left a job, which used to be annually as I got bored after a year, I would move on to something bigger and better.

I am a restless person who needs control and the ability to change my own direction, not exactly a company guy.

I always encourage people to get out and do ther own thing, or if you don't lik work LEAVE and do something else.

You are an inspiration to many and living proof that you don't need to stick around when you don't want to.

Well done!! Best wishes with your new work!

by rockydb

Congrats.

I am in the position you were in. I am about to leave, guess what they have no clue. Leases contracts, night processes, get ready set GO!!!

by dc_guy

It used to be the first place you'd stop after leaving SF and traveling through the vineyards and empty spaces for an hour and a half. Then it became a distant suburb, a place where people who worked in Marin County lived, or people who worked in the city but really valued "getting away from it all" enough to suffer a really long commute. Then Novato, Petaluma, and all the intervening towns grew to abut each other, they completed the freeway and made it a one hour drive, and Santa Rosa became a place a traveler on a budget would stay and drive into the city. Then it became a full-fledged suburb with malls and a Costco and a six-figure population.

Now it's a mid-six-figure population, it has absorbed (if not annexed) Windsor to the north and Rohnert Park to the south, and has two Home Depots and its own rush-hour traffic jams. You can't drive through Santa Rosa at 7:30am and if you do, you're gridlocked on US101 on your 2-hour commute into San Francisco. Yet people who work in the city still live in Santa Rosa because its $300,000 houses (heralded as the greatest single-year inflation in home prices in the nation) are, by their standards, affordable.

People who work in Santa Rosa's mostly modest businesses can't afford to live there, so they're bidding up real estate prices in sleepy, scenic Sebastopol.

Another lovely little town ruined by the inability of America's clueless managers to adapt to telecommuting employees.

And sweet little unsuspecting Healdsburg, 15 miles further north, becomes the new cool place to move to.

Coming soon: Ukiah. It already has a Wal-Mart.

by clindell

YOu said "Yet people who work in the city still live in Santa Rosa because its $300,000 houses" ??? Where are they? Let me know I'd like to buy one for that price! When we moved here 4 years ago we bought for $325,000 and that was Ok then. That same home is now at $575,000. There are no $300,000 dollar homes anymore and haven't been for 2 or 3 years, not even in Healdsburg, maybe in Cloverdale?

by dc_guy

That's as bad as South Pasadena, which is only a few miles from L.A. civic center. How can anyone afford to live in the Bay Area?

Guess I'm out of touch, or at least the survey I read was. Got to check the dates on those things. Considering that they're getting up into the three's in Eureka, whence one cannot commute to anywhere, it's no surprise. So where do people with minimum-wage jobs in the Santa Rosa mall or even union jobs in Costco live? With their parents? Six years ago it was Sebastopol, but I'd be surprised if that's affordable anymore if Healdsburg and Cloverdale have already been overrun. Anyway, congrats on your good investment!

When the generation that's growing up with IM and webcams takes over and sees no reason for people to have to be physically in the same place to work together -- or even in the same country -- there's going to be some painful realignment of home prices in the major metro areas. Places like Prague and Lake Chapala will boom, and Maui will finally be completely paved over.

by oz_media

Cloverdale? Well Cloverdale in British Columbia has houses (near mansion size ad geeraly on more than 3 acres, for about $180,000.00 > $250,000.00 (avg.) Although there are much higher priced homes too.

My brother bought a few homes in Cloverdale (BC) about 7 years ago at less that 150,000 ea. and sold them all last year for just under $250,000.00, which bought his summer home.

I just thought it funny that cheap homes in Cali were in Cloverdale, just as they are in BC's Cloverdale. (Our Cloverdale is only cheap though because it's suburban and new development is popping up all the time)

Now in USD, that's about the price of a garage.

by p2techsup

I'd go to Salary.com and print out the salary data that is for the area and use it as a basis to discuss what the wages are for that type of work in that area. I think it would give you some bargaining ammo.

by zlitocook

Tried for two years to get just an Admin. Job but every one is looking for a jack of all. You need to be able to program, administer, and pull cable through drops ceilings. You need to be able to help users with programs that you have never heard of a still be able to help users with locating short cuts that they have forgot. Even though you have no idea where it?s at.

by paradox667

Hey guys...

sounds like most of you are in the same boat as me.
I'm at a site though where I am it - Everything.

switches, servers, workstations, purchasing, security, phones, help desk, user management, routers, internet access, printers, televisions / dvd players, video editing, digital cameras, software I've never heard of, etc etc etc...

what boils my blood here is that:
barely any leave for past three years, work on average 9-10 hour days (paid for 8) including unpaid weekends....and the site doesn't have a clue what I do -> except when anything they can blame on me isn't working.

I think an early post had your title sorted:
Scape Goat.

by clindell

It's time to ask for a raise and tell them what you do or walk, you should not have to work 9-10 hour days and weekends, unless you are grossly overpaid, which I doubt. Have you worked out your actual pay based on the time you work? Working the amount of time you do effectively lowers your hourly pay and yearly gross, but if you are paid well you shouldn't complain. If it is to much you have choices, after 4 months at my previous gig I found myself heading your direction, there was no way I would accept the work without proper compensation! I walked and you can to, we all have choices.

by whitecat

I live in a smaller part of the country with a lower cost of living. However that lower cost of living also equates to lower wages and even lower respect for the tech industry.

I have been managing the network system of a medum sized car dealership for almost 3 years. Next week I will be given the title Part Time IT manager and a slight pay increase instead of just parts guys who busts his but to keep the system halfway working when he can. I won't go into a big whining session (it seems that we have had plenty of those in this tread already)but I just wanted to say that I feel your pain but count your blessings that you have been taken seriously and that your services are worth more than 20K.

by william.jaramillo

What are you REALLY? From your list of responsibilities there is no single title. You can be a Network Mgr, Wan Mgr, Telecom Mgr, Web developer, Microsoft admin, Office IT Mgr etc. The closest title I can find is either an IT Services Director/Manager or an Enterprise Services Manager. Either way 50K should be you sign-on bonus if you are experienced with all these systems. Anything below 6 figures would be unacceptable. If it is then make sure there is a huge BONUS attached to it.

But this is only my opinion. However, I am speaking from experience.

by computer_guy02

I think I'm getting the raw end too!!!!I'm a one man show for 2 hospitals that are about 130 miles apart and I do the same job and get paid 50K. I'm the resident photographer because I know how to use a digital camera which means new employee's security badges. I also take care of the HMS (Health Care Management System) which is another server that handles all the hospital billing, pharmacy, patient information and the time clocks. Not only am I fixing the computers here but the employees bring me their home computers to look at. Then in my free time I also handle United Way and Day of Caring and any other fund raisers.

by james.august

At my current job I make a lousy $30K here in Illinios. I do all Audio/Visual, Network Infrastructure, Server maintanance, PC Desktop support,and all Phone related problems. I also manage Email Server and District Website. All in total there are 3,289 PC's and 52 servers.

I've been told I'm worth twice what I make, but finding a job to honor/offer current Industry Standard pay is non-existant.

So my suggestion is be happy with $50K (hope with Benifits) and just be happy you are employed.

by zpeterse

Sounds like my company. I am a "Senior Support Technician"? the posted job description is that of a network administrator. I service anything that plugs in to the wall (with obvious exceptions). This includes computer, phones, all of the above networking eq, automated conveyor systems (photo eyes, systems/server/software management), user training, and common troubleshooting... to name a few. If I were to go on it would cover three typed pages.

I work in the company?s largest distribution facility and we have an IT shop of 2 guys... my boss and I. So I am basically the assistant systems manager in charge of keeping nearly 900 users and all of the higher ups happy. I do this all for the grand sum of $27k/year. But... on the other hand I am more than happy to have this job... I?m on the fast lane to being a manager and well... beats the hell out of being unemployed.

by cibertek

Choosing to "Walk" is exactly what I did. I was the "IT Guy" whith many hats for 3 years. I got my raises to 55K but it still worked out to making less than $20 hour with a 50-hour work week including weekends and some holidays. Eventually, I just got real tired of working so many hours. Management wanted to hire a second person, but said they couldn't afford it because my salary was too high. That was the straw that broke the camels back. I walked. Even though it took me almost 14 months to find a new job, it was worth it. I now work sometimes less than 40 hours a week and have the same salary as when I left the old job. Happier and less stress.

by rush2112

What does it say about your HIRED responsbilities?

What items are listed upon it that describe the job you were hired to perform?

Have those increased to include others? If so, when does the contract TERM end ?

Negotiate a new contract based on your expanded roles and responsibilities use the original contract as a reference and be sure to bring a copy to the negotiations.

Be NICE. Be FIRM.
Chances are, when you prove your point, you will obtain something for your efforts.

And why not request a full time position and a salary that is more acceptable for this amount of work?

Otherwise, just move on to the next joe-50k-Job and let them learn Economics on their own.

by super_it_mom

I do exactly what you are doing with a title of Network Support Specialist. Let me tell you, I don't make near $50K AND have NO benefits and was told no hope of a raise. I am just buying some time until I find something better (I am looking like crazy!). Keep your job....at least until something else comes along.

by megancuccia

No kidding----I'm way under that, do the same and just found out they're taking away my boss of 10+ years and now I have to report to someone else who now has the title "Head of IT" and knows absolutely zilch about IT. Then I get reamed by the President when I ask how this decision came about and was accused of not being a "team player!!"

by clindell

For all of you that are complaining or unhappy with wages, lets look at where you live.

If you live in an area where 50K can't even help you buy a starter home because they start at 600K I say you have a problem. If you make 50K and can afford a starter home you are probably doing OK, maybe you are still overworked, but OK. For some that posted they are making income in the 20K range I would first want to know how old you are, how much experience you have, what the cost of a starter home is and if you have a retirement plan? I know that 20K in Nebraska will fetch a starter home for less than 100K, that isn't all bad when you figure in the cost of housing and you like where you live. Secondly if you make a lower income than you think your worth due to working for an arm of the government or an employer that also offers a retirement package, not a 401K you need to think about your future earnings and add that into the picture!

If you are one of the lucky ones who make great wages where you live, have a real retirement and can afford a home and are happy, congratulations and count your blessings. If you have a job and a roof over your head and are eating and just making ends meet, it could be worse, at least you have a job.

Lets not forget we all have to pay our dues and if your not happy where you work you can do something about it, get training, change careers, find another job even if it means moving, we all have choices, this is not a dictatorship or a communist country and no one is forcing you to do something you don?t want to do or live where you are it is your choice.

by dale.richards

I cover all that and more, 2 1/2 years ago our IT department was downsized from 4 to 1! thats me. I dont have a job title or a contract but I am permenant staff 6 years and counting. I get reasonable salary and benifits. But no help or holiday cover. When I am off it waits for me!
Oh i forgot to say we offer external support services to third parties.