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Unconventional dual OS

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by kirk227

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I have an unconventional dual boot system. I have XP Pro x64 on one HDD and Windows 7 Ultimate on another HDD. I know a lot of you are saying"boy, that's a stupid way to do it" or something like that. Anyway, it's done now and I don't know if M.S. is going to allow me to move W7 to the other drive. Depending on the mood of the tech they'll either say "sure man, no problema". Or you can get the guy who can quote the EULA chapter and verse and tel you the only solution is to buy another copy of W7. Technically if it's a different drive it's a different computer. Microsoft's 11th commandment I believe. Now my point. If I have to keep things status quo, some of the upgrades from ASUS who made the mobo are the same for both OS's. Others aren't. How big a can of worms might I open should I decide to try to update the utlilities, updates etc. from ASUS. Everything's up to date on 7, but every time I start to do an update on xp pro 64, I get very nervous. I would sure like some advice from some of you wiser folks than I on this one. Feel free to contribute and if you must,go ahead and tell me how I should have done it. There really is a reason though. It's just not a very good one. Thanks!

52 replies

by .martin.

but I'm not too sure what you asking.

from memory, the motherboard is the part of the computer that an OEM version of windows lives and dies with. as for a full version of windows, you can move the license from one computer, as long as it is only on one computer at a time.

as for the updates, what are you nervous about?

by older mycroft

Each install is on a separate drive - so, whenever you boot into whichever OS you happen to choose, you are effectively booting a self-contained computer.

I've never encountered motherboard updates that were OS-specific, they usually only apply to the motherboard chipset - not the operating system.

What do you mean by "[i]I don't know if M.S. is going to allow me to move W7 to the other drive.[/i]"? - [b]Why would you want to? Which 'drive' are you going to move it to?[/b]

What you have at present is (I assume) working, so where is your problem?

by older mycroft

Back in October 2009, the day after Launch Day, I installed Windows 7 twice onto the partitions on the same HDD. First was Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, then Windows 7 Pro 32-bit.

I did it so that I could continue to recreate posted problems within either OS - and have a degree of experience as to how each system behaved and draw a comparison between them. Five months on and I'm booting into the 32-bit install less and less each week, it's only got access to 3.5GB of the 8GB RAM (whereas the 64-bit accesses all of it) and barring one game, I've experienced no system-refusals.

Removing the 32-bit install is giving me a few headaches and as such I've not really tried as yet. [b]BUT[/b] if each install was on a separate HDD...

by oh smeg

There shouldn't be any problem at all in Updating the XP Supplied Utilities from ASUS.

You shouldn't have any issues with Updating XP with M$ Updates either.

The only files that are sort of shared are the Boot Loader which resides on the Primary HDD and points the Software to which OS you want to open when you boot the system.

The only possible issue here is that if XP was the First OS installed and you are unable to rebuild it because you don't have a full version of XP to install from just a Slipstreamed Install Disc commonly called a Recovery Disc from the big system makers then you have a problem.

These Recovery Disc's generally require you to Format the XP Drive and if that is the Primary HDD in your system it will delete the Boot Loader and render it impossible to boot the 7 OS.

You'll then be required to Rebuild the 7 OS and depending on how this ends up having to be done may require a Reactivation of 7. ;)

Col

by kirk227

I knew it would be difficult explaining this situation and I was correct. Dual boot systems are usually if not always on the same drive for many reasons. For one, when you boot up all you have to do is choose which OS to use. The way mine is, and I'm sure you already know this but I have to go into the bios every time I want to change and switch which drive it boots from. Not a big deal but still unnecessary the correct way. Secondly, I am having disappearing exe files that may or may not have anything to do with this. I lose a couple of icons daily and when I try to reinstall the program from the internet it tells me the program is already in that location and do I want to replace it. I went in to both Explore and another file manager called Power Desk. Sure enough, the programs are there, but not the exe file. Every single one of these disappearing icons follows this exact pattern, so I have just say yes go ahead and install it anyway. So far all I've lost are downloadable programs but it's still a pain. thirdly, I don't knowd enough about dual boot systems (obviously) to say if this is normal or not, but I have to have a separate antivirus program for each OS. Hopefully one of you can tell me if this is the norm or not. It also applies to programs like Outlook 2007. As far as the M.S. problem apparently you've never been unfortunate enough to talk to one of the ill-tempered techs. Most are very helpful but I was told flat out "read your EULA and you'll see that any hardware change constitutes a new computer" by the letter of the law if you will. Since I have two licensed copies I don't care but if and when I move W7 to the XP drive, they may decide that makes it a different computer. As stupid as that may sound and it sounds exceedingly stupid to me, they are within their rights to disallow activation. Usually they can be persuaded to use common sense and courtesy, but I've talked to some that will not budge. They have the attitude of that's what the EULA says so there's nothing I can do for you. Don't forget, it'll likely cost me $50.00 either way unless I just get lucky and install it and activate it with no problems. Otherwise I'm out $50.00 and a lot of time.I know that most of you will disagree that the missing exe problem is related to this situation since I'm highly skeptical myself, but I'm thorough and very security conscious and I haven't found any other explanation. Of course what I'm suggesting isn't really an explanation either. If you think it's just a simple issue that I've blown out of proportion I would love for you to be right. My experiences with M.S. don't allow me that comfort level though. I hope I covered everything. If I could be completely certain that M.S. wouldn't cause me any grief I'd already be going at it. Unfortunately they don't always know the answers themselves. Read the article in ZDnet about the system builders issue on Vista or W7. They quoted M.S. as saying that it's perfectly fine to build a system for yourself, and they were quoted as saying that it's not legal. I wish I had the URL for it but it was just before W7 came out if I remember correctly. They can't even decide if it's legal or not and they have lawyers galore trying to decide, so if you think it's a non-issue, read that article. It's a real eye opener.

by older mycroft

Reading 38 solid lines of type can be difficult and if it gives everyone else a headache like it gave me, you run the risk of peers giving up and walking away.

Splitting your input into easily managed paragraphs is far, far easier to read and also to refer back to when compiling answers. ;)

by oh smeg

For most Licensing Questions that I have and anything that could involve them I'm probably not the right person to speak to. However I still have a vivid memory of ringing M$ Technical Support telling them that I had a Volume License version of XP and then a few seconds latter when I said that this problem only happens on one of the five computers that this is installed on they started caring on about Piracy. Obviously the Bit about the VL Products didn't sink in. :D

You have a strange way of Dual Booting so here you are changing the Boot Disc in the BIOS every time you want to change the OS so other than taking a bit longer it shouldn't make any difference. But maybe the big difference here is that I'm in AU and the M$ EULA has no legal standing here so the Activation Center has to be a bit more lenient than those in the US. I have however in the past hit problems with the M$ Activation Center when I have got Singapore when this happens I just ring the Technical Support in AU and get the problem solved. Doesn't happen often but it can occasionally happen.

Here the M'Board/CPU Combination is the base of the Hardware you can change everything but that. Even then that is not a Hard & Fast Ruling as Repairs can replace the M'Board and CPU to the next currently available M'Board/CPU combination. What you can not do is a Upgrade or Repair from a Pentium 200 MMX CPU to a i7 CPU. But if it was necessary you could do a repair from a Pentium 4 to a Intel Pentium Dual Core E5400 CPU, 2.7 GHz, provided that the new CPU is a Bottom End CPU and not the newest fastest available.

Though while this is all schamantics M$ Legal is happy if you Invoice as a Repair and replace things like the M'Board/CPU combination when necessary.

However if you call it a Upgrade you should be replacing the M$ OEM Products with New products. ;)

As for tieing the OS to a HDD I have fitted 6 new SCSI Drives to 1 XP system which required me to reactivate that system. As it was my test rig it needed reactivation fairly constantly and when I fitted those 6 SCSI Drives where each one cost quite a lot more than the M$ products that I was using the M$ Activation Center sort of spat the dummy a bit. It was at that stage that I got feed up with them and deleted that OS and reloaded with all Volume License products. These do not require reactivation when things are changed so I had less work in the long run.

Anyway officially provided that you are not changing the M'Board/CPU combination you are entitled to use the OEM Software as you wish. The Staff at M$ Activation are the real problems here as they really do not know what it is that they are doing and like any Power Crazed Bureaucrat some can get carried away. When this happens it's the type of person that you are dealing with that is the problem not so much the M$ Activation Center so I just hang up and ring back latter. If I get the same person again I hang up again then hit redial. You are very unlikely to get the same person twice in a row there. ;)

Col

by firefox5000

if I have one HDD containing XP(primary) and the other HDD containing Vista. If i use fixboot on XP the Vista bootloader would be erased? I dont need to use fixmbr? Then for example I could dual boot with windows 7.

by ron k.

To dual boot I believe that you need to have both operating systems on the same drive. I've been wrong before.
What I used to do when I had a similar setup was to enter the BIOS when I started my computer and turn off whichever drive had the operating system that I didn't want to use. That was pretty easy.

by firefox5000

the only safe way is to have 2 HDD and then use dual boot with one OS on each drive.
My question is simple. Since XP is on the master HDD (in my case) I would like to erase Vista(on the second HDD) when Im installing Windows 7. Im not sure if XP would work fine afterwards. Does anyone know how it would turn out?

by kirk227

I am well aware it was overly long, but if I hadn't covered what I did I would have gotten a bunch of other questions that I have now pre-answered. Please accept my apology. I also am aware that I don't split paragraphs well. Not at all truth be told. It's funny that it doesn't bother me but when I hear some idiot newscaster pronounce negotiations as if it were spelled negociations it makes me crazy. Why not say negociacions why'll they're at it. Even worse is "I could of been a contender." Not could have, could of. How do these people get on tv?

by older mycroft

You are not looking at the screen while you type out your prodigious tome.

You're looking at the keyboard! - Thinking in your own little self-contained smug way, that you're being highly productive as your fingers sweep across the keyboard in a flurry of activity.

Try actually [b]READING[/b] your own work, before deciding to continue with this inordinate typing style. ;)

by boxfiddler Hot topic

with Ubuntu and XP. The only problem I've had is that XP won't install to a secondary drive. It wants the primary. Period. I'll be rebuilding that machine soon, and will see if Ubuntu will sit happily on the secondary.

by boxfiddler Hot topic

Now I'll have to defriend you. I'm anti-pointy-headed. :0

by ron k.

If he can't be bothered to put paragraphs in his posts I can't be bothered to read them, much less re-read them.
I'm in a mood.

by ron k.

I installed OpenSUSE on the same drive as my XP Pro drive as an experiment. During installation I was aske where I wanted to create 3 partitions for openSUSE and I chose empty space. Upon rebooting I had a choice of which operating system I wanted to use.
A very safe way to experiment and/or use some form of Linus IS to install it on a separate unformatted drive. That way all you have to do to boot to Linux or Windows is to turn on the drive you desire in the BIOS.
I believe that there is software that I haven't tried that makes it easy to switch between operating systems while they're on the same drive but the names escapes me this morning. There's also such a thing as having a virtual machine, (VM) but I haven't tried that either.

by ron k.

If you keep XP on one drive and erase Vista on the secondary drive to install Windows 7, meaning that you'll need to choose which drive to boot to in the BIOS, you won't hurt either OS as they'll be independent of each other.
What you are proposing to do is similar to what I'd do if I were to install Windows 7. It's a good idea.

by ron k.

I feel like a square block trying to fit into a triangular hole. We all have our foibles. I'm often confused too so I'm one up on you.

by oh smeg

Here it all depends on how your Hardware addresses the HDD's and which one if either is the Primary Boot Drive.

To test this out open the case with it turned off and disconnect the Vista Drive.

If the system boots the XP OS without problems [i]though you may need to open the BIOS and set the XP Drive to Boot first[/i] you can delete the Vista Drive without a problem. However if the XP System will not boot after disconnecting the Vista Drive you can not safely wipe the Vista Partition.

This is to do with your individual Hardware not the way that the different OS's interact with it. ;)

Col

by oh smeg

It's the teacher coming out. After all you know just how [b]Difficult Teachers[/b] find it to read submitted assignments when they don't have any breaks in them. :0

It really confuses all the teachers in the audience. :^0

Col

by firefox5000

I have XP home edition and Vista as dual boot system. Before I had XP home and XP Pro as a dual boot system. When I installed Vista I just deleted the HDD where XP Pro was installed and everything worked fine.
So this should mean that I can also delete Vista?

by nicknielsen

You are selecting which OS to boot to by enabling/disabling drives or changing the primary boot device in BIOS.

Either way, you should have no problems with updating either operating system. The two operating systems do not share files, so even if you update the one, you still have to update the other.

by kirk227

What I don't have and I asked in an earlier post about, is whether or not I would be able to share programs if both OS's were on the same drive. For an example, right now I have two avtivirus programs because I tried to see if I could protect both and it can't be done. Also I don't know what would happen if I loaded Oulook 2007 on the second drive, or for that matter, will it even run on the second OS if it's on the same drive. I was hoping someone who has two operating systems on the same drive could answer these questions for me. You hit on the key issue when you said the two operating systems don't share files. I'm not completely sure that they don't in certain conditions Does every single person running a dual OS computer have to buy an antivirus program for each one? I know many can be used on 3 machines but that's not the answer I need. I'm just hoping to find out these answers the easy way. Hopefully someone can tell me before I have to spend many hours loading the W7 OS on the other drive and updating it and moving all the other programs and....... you know the routine. Anyway, thanks for the input.

by ron k.

Each OS is independent of the other. Period. If you want to install a program you are, theoretically, bound by your acceptance of the EULA which normally says that only one instance of the software may be used at any given time. If you want to install MS Office you're going to need to choose an OS for it to be installed to and then boot to that OS when you want to use it. Programs seem to be getting 'smarter' about the number of installations for a particular license key. I have Adobe Web Premium CS4. When I used Pcmover Pro to transfer files and programs from my old computer to my new one Adobe only worked for a day or two on my new one. I had to deactivate it on my old one and reactivate it on my new one to get it to work correctly. I'm telling you that so you're not surprised when a piece of software 'breaks' on you when you've installed multiple copies to different locations/operating systems.

by nicknielsen

If you are changing boot sequence to determine which OS loads, you may be able to access files on the "non-system" drive or move files between the drives, but the OSs [u]will not[/u] share any system files (applications or configurations) between them.

Each OS has its own file repository, its own registry, and its own directory structure. If you install an application under one OS, it is not installed under the other OS unless you actually install it there.

by oh smeg

Yes if you deleted the Pro Disc and loaded Vista you can delete the Vista Disc and load 7 without a problem.

Col

by kirk227

Is that what you're saying? To me that's the crux of the issue and what I've been trying to learn among other things the whole time. In other words, if I have Norton AV and Outlook 2007 installeed on a disk on which the only OS is XP Pro 64 and the OS is on a separate partition Then I create a third partition on which I only install Windows 7, will they need to have separate versions of Outolook 2007 and Norton AV? I chose these programs randomly by the way.

by ron k.

Let someone else tell you the same thing I did.

by boxfiddler Hot topic

And two legit copies of Office. One for each freaking OS. How many times and different ways do you have to hear it?

by oh smeg

AV Product for every OS that you have installed. When one OS isn't running the Products installed to protect that OS can not run.

Just the same as they can not be accessed from a different OS and run as the running OS doesn't have the necessary Registry Changes to support that program.

You can not install any software in 1 OS and have it work in another when it needs to embed itself int he running OS.

Col

by kirk227

Seriously though Ron K. if I had read your's first I obviously wouldn't have written what you perceived as me ignoring you. I swear that's the truth. If you've been on these forums awhile as I'm pretty sure you have, you must be aware that when you post a response to a particular post, it doesn't necessarily go to your chosen spot. Sometimes it goes where you wanted it to go, but not until several hours later. I will give them muchos kudos for getting much better about this in the past year or so. Please accept my sincere apology for the chronology as well as my smart ass title. And most of all, thank you for the correct answer.

by nicknielsen

Come on back into the thread, review each post, and if you think it helped you, mark it as helpful.

by santeewelding

Kirk looks like the driver all-consumed with his own agenda, that he cuts corners and runs red lights.

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