29 replies
i get an incentive of "0". that is zero as in "0".
i have never heard of IT guys getting an incentive to deliver reports on time. I think you got a good thing. why don't you guys alternate each month a different guy get to spend the $300 on a toy.
by oz_media
Someone complaining that they are only allowed $300.00 IT play money!
You are getting $300.00 more play money than anyone I've ever met in IT.
I am a sales rep and IT tech, I have never made as much money in IT as I can or sometimes do in sales, it just doesn't work that way. As a kid I learned that sals reps make the money and get the perks, administrators, receptionists, HR etc. don't. Thus you find a sales career if you want that money, just be prepared to put up with FAR more crap and pressure than you have ever seen in IT.
by oz_media
ANy sales force you support will always make more than you, get all the little client handouts and bonuses etc. You get squat, you don't need incentive you are hired to do a job at a salary, end of story.
If a salesteam earns avg. $1400.00/month commission each, and then the manager gets $2800.00 basd on thier perfonrmance, IT gets squat, even though you feel they can't do their job without you. Bottom line is that they can do it without you, the employer wants to make staff more efficient so he provides them with computers and IT support to make himself more profitable, not them.
Get over it, IT does not get sales perks or incentives, never has and never will.
Management and others directly responsible for sales success or company savings, get the perks, not you.
You also closed with a valid question. How do you prove you have increased profitability and efficiency? You can't unless you keep track of sales, sales performance and then go and query all customers as to what influenced their decision; The reps efficiency, the website, etc.
It's not measurable, especially to the boss, and therefore cannot be rewarded the same, never has and never will.
This is employment 101, pick the job that enthuses you most, If you want cash bonuses, added incentives like trips, dinners, golf etc. get into sales, you want a steady payckeck without the burden of monthly quota, a sales manager breathing down your neck etc. Join IT.
The choice is yours, what your are wanting is just not logical nor supported by any company I've ever seen.
by larrywpace
by oz_media
YOU get perks the others don't. I worked an IT job where my ONLY perk, and prearranged in my contract, was that ANY time a new computer was need ANYWHERE, I did a shuffle. Meaning I got a brand new top-of the line workstation (usually with the latest Graphics card to play the newest games on, wheter needed for my work or not) and would pass mine down to the next manager in line, his would be passed down to a sales rep and so on, depending on the imprtance of the positions need of a computer.
People always came to my office and said my games looked better so I had the advantage (we'd have large network games of Ghost Recon etc., in which I would obliterate them with ease due to a better PC).
So while I was pissed that they got so much extra dough,I still made a higher salary than the top reps base salary (he netted well over 150K/yr with commissions though) and I got the best equipment.
The boss made MY job easier by providing me with MONDO workstations, the others got cash bonuses based on performance. This was MY perk for making their lives easier. Also getting in good with the slaes reps will see some perks coming your way from them. I used to get all the gas and golf cupons and stuff from the reps where I worked because they would get them on manufacturer incentives and pass them to me as a thanks for helping them with home PC issues etc.
It's just perspective, taking a step back and really doing an inventory of who gets what and why.
One thing you have on your side, you are employed, there are MANY very skilled IT staff out there who can't find the most basic IT job.
Chin up, it doesn't sound that bad, in fact if you ever don't know what to do with the extra $300.00 toy money, let me know! :)
by gsg
Because of my experience with bonuses I have an intense suspicion of them and management motives in paying them.
So take this with a pinch of salt, but I've seen it, done it and felt it.
Management see bonus as a cost, and a huge one (it adds up over a year for every employee)
What do management do with costs ?
The employee sees it either as a large percentage of his salary that his individual performance has no bearing on and that management can manipulate at will , or an amount so pathetic he just can't be bothered to do anything for it.
In the former case he will end up working harder just to make up his salary (remember management reduce costs), strangely enough employees resent this sort of thing, in the latter it's completely counter productive, performance will go down.
I used to be in manufacturing, and bonus was based on production targets, which I did have a direct impact on, because if the computers stopped so did the process. I did get money, almost 15% of my salary was bonus. However before you get jealous, my salary was very very low, the bonus simply made it up to market. However if there were production losses for anything everybody took a hit. Performance related pay in a nutshell.
The trend you have to watch out for is more and more of your take home becoming bonus related.
It has always been my experience that management want to pay you less when you underperform not more when you exceed expectations, they generally consider that an unwanted side effect.
It soon occurs to management that they can reduce costs by manipulating the bonus or the factors that give rise to it.
How about a mandatory reboot test so your up time is never 100%. ?
Counter-productive
1) Trigger points. For instance lets say you get amount x for every % of up time over 80%. On Monday, total disaster, hdd failure, can't make your bonus, rest of the week , no one gives one.
2) Low money. Asking an employee to work his butt off for one cent an hour. Explanation unneeded.
Divisive
1) Come up with a scheme where employee A gets more than employee B, because they 'performed' better. Employee B will not agree. Finger pointing, low morale, the lot.
2) Everybody gets an equal share of the bonus. Employee A believes they contributed more than lazy incompetent employee B. Employee A not happy low morale, bad attitude, the lot.
I was once on a profit bonus . This was not too bad an idea, in that the performance indicator was less likely to be manipulated (well in the UK), the goal is so remote from the guy on the shop floor that divisiveness nevers sets in, it was payed annually, most just before Xmas, the remainder after the last months calculations were finalized in January and was about 13% of my salary. Very nice, so nice in fact management cancelled it and replaced it with something that did not reduce their final profit. Watching what they thought they had made drop by 300k set their teeth on edge.
Unless you get a radical re-think including a re-assessment of how the other benificiaries get bonused, you are going to watch departmental performance go down.
Even more salt.
The scheme you've outlined with it's enormous disparity in both value and conditions I hesitate to call moronic, because I've met morons who've come up with better ideas. The company would have been better off leaving you out of it completely, now they are euchered because they will be taking something away from you even if it was totally crap.
If I was you I'd buy training software for the most marketable skills you can find and any other job finding aids, then try and leave the company en-masse, because you are working for halfwits who shouldn't be allowed to to run a toy shop, and I don't mean a shop that sells toys.
P.S. If any of your bosses is known to clean his gun collection with obsessive regularity please paraphrase on presenting this.
P.P.S
I have been there and got the tee-shirt. It was a cheap white thing with the company logo on it. Shrunk and went out of shape the first time I cleaned the car with it.
Do yourself a favour get right out of there.
by oz_media
What you have said I will somewhat agree with in the case of manufacturing.
Not in sales though.
Almost every sales organization in Canada and I suppose the US too does this as the norm.
I have managed more sales people than I could possibly remember, I have been in more sales roles than I could possibly list. Bottom line, they are ALL exactly the same. Incentives for sales and management staff are as common as bathrooms with toilet seats, and certainly nothing to raise any fears over as far as company stabliity. I would be worried if the sales staff had salary removed and were placed on minimum wage or commission, which ever is higher.
In this case, it is as normal as putting on your pants in the morning, especially in the industry mentioned.
Different TYPES of sales require different classes of sales people, SOME, usually newer or younger teams, are motivated by low salary and high commission possibilities and added incentives, I have played the envelope game with $50's all day too.
Then again, for older more experienced staff, the base is usually higher with less commission, and added incentives when they start to make noise about earning a tonne of cash for the company and getting paid bugger all.
Older reps generally have families, mortgages etc. They need a higher salary or else they get hungry and lose deals. Just as dogs smell fear, customers smell insecurity and hunger trying deperately to close a deal (another reason to always have a $50.00 in your pocket when you are selling something, a mental reinforcement if you will).
When reps/managers get high salaries, they ALWAYS get less commission. In fact the more they sell the more salary and less commission they earn, otherwise they'd make infinite amounts of money o commission, this is why new sales reps get minimum wage or commission, as soon as they are successful, much commission is removed and salary isput in place, not because of the 'proven ability' issue that it is supposed to represent. Any time, I have proven my sales ability, I would much rather be left on commission than stuck n salary nd makin gless money than I could be. THey also promote sales reps to managers for this sames reason, they simply sell too much after a while.
It is VERY common for these people, again especially management, to get production bonuses and profit shares to fill in the gap. When staff are over producing, it is cheaper to give them some incetive dough than pay higher commissions.
This sounds like the most common and straight forward system and not unlike most others.
It can indicate a VERY successful sales team, or can be an effort to move invoicing and deals through the channels faster to create faster deal turnover.
Many salesmen will do half assed paper work due to sales being more of an importance for paying the bills. This means that operations are slowed and revenue is held back for quota padding etc. The incentives, as described in this case, are in place to keep paperwork and deals flowing and being followed up, instead of just prospecting all day or padding weak times of year.
Well did say add salt, maybe some cayenne wouldn't be amiss either.
I'll take your word on sales, I've learnt how to sell myself thru failing to, but would n't know where to start with anything else.
Bonuses can work, if they come to a reasonable percentage of your earnings and they are seen as fair.
If the guy's company wants to perform better, how does the bonus scheme as outlined help them do it. Maybe I need to go to business school, because it's not making a gramme of sense to me.
I wouldn't drive my chair faster from one station to another so the department could have a better nobo board. 300$ a month I'll fit a 1200cc engine to it.
by dafe2
I think that's the case in this fellows post.....'the throw money at it' & my problem goes away.
It's the same in sales - High Comission carrots = trying to sell something no one usually buys. LOL
by jdmercha
We are all paid to do a job. If a company does well it might share its fortune by paying a bonus to its employees, accross the board. (My wife is also in IT for a large firm, she has been getting a 1%-3% bonus each year.) Generally you do not get a bonus for doing your job.
A saleman might have a minimum goal of $1mil in sales. $600k covers the cost of goods sold, 300k goes to cost of overhead, $20k in commission and $80k in profits for the company. The salseman did his job, thus no bonus.
If that same salesman sells $2mil the overhead has already been covered, so the company profit from the 2nd mil is $380k. So the company keeps $280k profit and gives the salesman a $100k bonus.
It is extremely difficult for any IT person to have such an impact on the bottom line.
by tomsal
Dude (oh sorry I'm carrying over my slang from another thread on here lol) that's $300 more than my department sees per month.
There is no such thing as incentive pay or bonus here ...period. Doesn't matter how great the company does either -- could be record-breaking quarters for 2 years straight ...doesn't matter. Still Nada..zip, zilch, zero!
As unfair as it may seem, trust me on this one man...your company is generous!
by techierob
I laugh sometimes when I read posts like this...
I don't even get a 'thankyou' for the late nights and server rebuilds, or any thanks nine times out of ten when I fix something...
Most of us in IT would kill for incentive like that :)
PC support gets paid a bonus based on every support call successfully resolved.
Software guys get paid bonus for not writing code that needs supporting as much.
Both perfectly sensible if they are in separate companies, in the same one, bad bad idea.
One more point how do you feel about management thinking that they have to pay you extra to do your job right. It's as though they think you are unprofessional or something isn't it.
Trust me, down the food chain just like Oz said in sales. Bonus is instead of salary not on top of it.
Giving employees a stake in the business is always a good idea, putting a stake in your employees not usually as well received.
LOL
by larrywpace
We are a part of the yearly bonus pay, based on the over all goals of the entire company. If we get 80% of the goal then good bonus, 100% better bonus, 120% awesome bonus. The key word here is Incentive. The entire management team is getting a chance at $6,000 extra dollars a year and I'm not getting a slice of that pie, yes, I do make more than them but even the CFO, the internat auditor, and hell even the facilities manager is getting incentive pay, Incentive pay for a facility person, can someone explain that one.
I'm not in sales and have no desire to ever be in sales, It just doesn't seem right that VP's, and supervisors and manager's are getting a chance to add to their monthly paycheck (above and beyond the yearly bonus) and the IT guy (me) get's a $300 allowance for a toy, I've got a corporate credit card and buy whateve the hell I want whenever I want so $300 is nothing. I've got a $5,000 credit card and trust me, Bust Buy, and Comp USA sees me on a weekly basis. I've got stuff I've never taken out of the box yet.
I guess anothe question is, how "would you" incent an "IT Mangager" if you were the CEO and you were giving incentive pay to Facilities mgr, internal audit, HR, and you had to incent your IT MGR, what would you do.
They all get $$$$$$$ and I get a $300 credit line for a computer store, i've got kids, a house, and mouths to feed.
Does that make sense?
How about
Utilization.
Categorize what the department does in terms of how little or much it adds value to the business.
Numbers don't matter you could even put a survey out to your 'customer' and ask them identify the most valuable three services IT supplies.
Take that with a pinch of salt, as making sure the printer has paper & toner in it will be high on the list.
You and your guys book their time to the codes. Then your aim is to engineer out as much of the low added value as you can.
My manager loves it even prepared to take the hit of an adminstrative team meeting to show us the graphs, every month. Explains them every time as well. Absolutely fascinating.
Seems to fly at our place though, and it's efectively cost based without putting ideas in to bean counters heads about straight costs because salaries and even your credit card aren't in it.
by oz_media
Is the monthly goodie the employee's or can they only lend it during play time on condition they don't leave the premises ? In that case the bonus is a potential budget allocation of 300$ per month * performance factor. Not so good.
I can't see what you'd spend such a small amount on as an extra in IT every month.
Departmental allocation of jamaica blue mountain would be nice, but I've heard americans do awful things to coffee. It would be a major diplomatic incident if someone put milk in it, maple nuts would be a declaration of war. Even if they didn't you'd need a good strong lock to keep all them rich bleeders out.
If it's theirs to do with as they will save it for a year, pro rata it between employees and service that year. One decent goodie each and a bit left over for a departmental knees up.
Wonder what their tax position would be in the
US ? In the UK a gift would be taxable if it was considered in lieu of salary by the taxman. Might be better giving it all to a charity and getting their faces in the local rag.
Guy never said how many bodies, lets say five including him and it pays out every month thats 720$ each a year. 35 hour week (dream on), 48 working weeks is about 42c an hour, before tax.
Ho hum.
If there's only him and a junior 71c an hour, before tax.
Just got this picture of some senior manager type ambling into the department with a big fat cheque in his hand, saying what did you chaps get ?
In england he would n't need his money to have the department's top of the range pda surgically removed.
LOL
by oz_media
All income, cash bonuses and commission is taxable here.
They are planning on taxing cold water and air I'm sure, where every toilet flush or a breath outside will cost you.
But it's stll the prettiest place around so I don't care, like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
I get taxed BIG time from my UK income, it usually stays in the bank over there. Us taxation is sickening when you bring the income up north too.
I feel so important, all these government deem me so wealthy they all want a cut of my income! :)
In an era where most businesses outsource their IT departments, you should be very careful with your moves.
It seems like your CFO and your CEO don't see your department as "strategic" to the company, if we have to speak our mind on how to gauge such a meager piece of the action.
If you put it in terms of "we also deserve such and such amount of money", they will only see cost, not value.
You should first and foremost put the focus on value to the company and the business coming from IT, both present value and future value.
Once you conquer that first goal, you could speak about "investments", once again, in terms of competitive advantage, value and ROI, but never costs.
Never mention cost and IT in the same sentence unless you contribute to profit with revenue.
Accountants will have sharpened pencils at the ready before you've moved from I to T.
by frobaby
We use this comapny for a peer-to-peer incentive plan - EXCELLENT STUFF!
Works perfect for our internal IT and help desk departments. What it does is allow people to award each other points for helping out in whatever way. Then you cash in your points online for gifts - I got myself a nice LCD monitor a little while ago.
by jim.baker
you know...in alot of the post here I see some saying that IT doesn't contribute to the bottom line of a company. I disagree...if it does what the are hired to do, that is keep people working, They do contribute in that as long as we do our jobs there is little or no down time. in other words no lost man hours. Also , (At least I do this) I look for ways for and means for people to do use the tools provided to them by IT more efficiently...meaning they get more done in less time all of which contributes to the bottom line.
the main problem is this, in most companuies, especially sales based ones, the management are looking for instant gratification.. the make a sale..they get the money...it goes in the bank... bingo..instant gratification...instant showable results
where as in IT most of the results can't be shown instantly...it takes keeping metrics and stats...running reports etc etc... and most of the savings that ypu may have had want be seen till the end of the year when the look at the profit margins...
so..why shouldn't we get incentives or bonuses along with every one else....?
by rkendsley
unless you are in the business of selling IT, it's very hard to say how much of a contribution it is.
So when dealing with the bean counters never talk in their terms. They'll make you a cost, depreciate you and then write you off.
by dafe2
You have to remember that the Management & sales staff are the ones that keep the business going.
They keep the money coming in & you SUPPORT that activity.
It's really that simple.
by hockeyist
If you don't have it in place look at implementing service level management. Meet with your CEO/CFO and let them know that you will implement a service improvement plan and need their support.
You should be able to gain better rewards for improved services if your SLA's are fair.
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