What to do??

The next time he has a meeting with you, take a tape recorder. Advise him that your legal counsel desires his comments on your "not being allowed to have a life" to be properly recorded for submission into evidence at the trial.

Frankly, if you live in the United States, telling an employee they are not allowed to have a life outside of work could get you into a mass of trouble with the Justice and Labor. In fact, why don't you call them, locate a local office and have a nice chat with an enforcement officer.

My observataion is that he is attempting to control your lives at work to the point he has created a hostile work environment, not to mention his "no life outside of worka" comment borders very close to the legal definition of slavery.

Get a lawyer.

Get a new job.

Slap some wake the hell up management law suits on him and on upper management at the company.

Settle for at least 250K.

Buy me a drink in Las Vegas sometime.

You'll be well served.

I would have dealt with this guy ages ago, Simply walk into his office, jump up on his desk, Sh*t on his head and P*ss on his face.
After all that's what he is doing to you.

I laughed when I read everyone else's posts, but in reality IT is a tough job. From what I have seen in the past few years is that you do work a little overtime, but sometimes I feel that is due to lack of prioritization and efficiency. This may stem from the worker, or from other workers just trying to get by.

I would find another job, and quick. If my manager told me those things, I would laugh in his face (of course I would probably get fired, but hey, that's the kind of guy I am).

Yes, overtime is hard to avoid on occasion, but to say you can't have a life is insane. You'll burn out so fast and become so resentful and it would kill a marriage real fast.

The boss sounds like a big control freak. He has no right to dictate who you can eat lunch with or what you do after hours. I used to eat lunch with my fellow IT guy, the office manager, the manager of customer service and a warehouse guy all the time.

I'd look for a new job and let this guy burn himself out. Why work where the boss puts you down and threatens your job all the time?

I don't normally recommend legal action because I'm not that fond of lawyers, but this is one just begging for a lawsuit.

This isn't a manager, it's an idiot. Whatever you do, don't listen to him.

Suck it up until you find a new job, then walk out. But take my advice, don't flame out. Give your notice, say vanilla things in the exit interview and remember that it's a small world. When you're gone, it'll all be behind you.

I have to start off with the fact that not all IT departments work this way. My boss acknowledges the importance of a balanced life (work/personal). Our time is very flexible and his motto is under-promise and over-deliver. All my boss asks is that if we promise something that we deliver.

At times, we are constrained to deadlines that are outside of our control and we have to put in some serious hours (90+ per week) in order to get a project done but this is not the norm. My development team averages between 40-45 hours per week and we like it that way.

Look for another job and focus on that light at the end of the tunnel.

Good Luck.

Assess you financial situation, if you can do afford to do it, quit. However, if you can not start looking (maybe for any job to support yourself) and leave. Just remember not all IT is like this, actually it your manager not your career field that is the problem. I always evaluate my happiness and see if it is worth it. On your death bed, no one ever says they should have worked more. Good luck

NO!! you shouldnt expect that from any job. Real managers and real IT jobs wont require that of you. I spent the last 3 years in a position just like you mentioned. A boss who appreciatted nothing and expected everything. I worked an average of 60 hours a week, Ive gone in on a Friday morning with plans to go out of town for the weekend and left work Saturday night, knowing that I would come back in in a few hours.

I finally got let go from that job mainly because I refused to be treated like that anymore.

Your boss is a MORON. And he will go far in a corporate job, mainly due to YOUR efforts. I found another job after taking several months off. I would say you wont have to hard of a time finding another job either.

My current position pays the same but I work M-F 7 am to 4 pm. They dont even ask me to work the weekends. Real IT jobs are out there. Just look for them.

Mike

Today we both got yelled at again; my co-worker was in tears because she was ordered not to take smoke breaks because "they" think it makes her look like a "loser".

Shortly after, I was reprimanded for apparantly not following procedures that weren't written down in the first place and for taking four weeks to complete a website that my boss said could be done in two weeks (EVERYTHING can be done in two weeks at this place. Hell soon they want us to write an ENTIRE VB.NET SOFTWARE PROGRAM in two weeks!!!).

I was told basically that "they" wonder why they cant just hire a contractor to do a site in two weeks; I told my boss if they think that, then let them do it, and I wouldn't have any hard feelings if I left due to it. This is gettng really ridiculous....

sort of chap, because to be quite honest this guy would be wearing a TFT necklace if he tried this woth more irrascible people such as myself.
Start looking to leave now and tell everybody you are and why, or start looking to leave now and tell everybody you have and why.
You could fight for this job but to be brtally honest from your description it does not seem worth the effort. So walk out, held I high and tell absolutely everybody why you have. Get your colleague(s) to do the same. If you manage it send us a pic of this clown's face when he realises he has to meet his own dealines without his trusty slaves.
It's a bit harsh, but if you walk around in brown clothing with welcome written on them people will use you as a doormat. Remember you are good at your job this eejit is not good at his.
Next time he gives you two weeks, tell him and everyone else you can reach it will be two months, you didnt fail to meet the dealine he failed to set it properly.
Still happens to me on occasion, anyone tell's me how long a job is going to take, I disagree on principal and very loudly. Admittedly I have extensive experience to rest on now, but I've always had this attitude. When I make a promise I keep it

Wayne:

Pretty sad state of affairs.
One thing is clear: your boss seems pretty disfunctional to me.
And I think you think the same thing.

The question is:
Is the rest of the company, in particular its leadership (the "exec") are they as disfunctional as this guy ?
If they are, (which would be logical), I would sugguest that you get the hell out quickly.

One point deserves consideration, your internal clients might not know any better. In other words, your internal clients might think that that is how a usual IT Group functions. If the execs are just ignorant but are willing to listen, then I would gently point out the consequences of your boss mode of operation, any disaster project ? Any grossly missed deadline ? How about high turnover in the IT Group ? I suppose that the guy does not follow any sort of structured software development methodology, correct ? I suppose you know the consequence of that, if not you probably can figure that out.
Finally, I would suggest that your female co-worker (and yourself) carefully document the sexual harrasment issue and get a good lawyer. You could achive two goals with one strike, i.e.: get rid of the harrasser and get rid of the incompetent boss. I did write incompetent, because in my opinion, he is incompetent.

Our bosses must be related.

Hey Wayne,

Maybe you guys should strike - or work to rule - only do what is in your job descriptions - without you and your co-worker busting your butts he will soon be begging you to change.

Good Luck

Cheers
Damon

1) CuteElf is right. Document your ass off. Email everything to him: concerns about timelines, questions about procedure, etc. Make your manager define the tasks and process *for* you.

2) Read your employment handbook/guidelines for the company. If a rule/process/procedure isn't defined there, make your manager define it or have him have a superior define it for him and pass it on to you.

3) If the manager is *clearly* breaking guidelines set forth in company policy, express your disagreement and quote company policy. If he goes against company policy, report him *immediately* to HR and send a copy of the email in which you expressed your disagreement.

4) If the manager continues to disregard policy and HR does nothing, email HR again and CC the owner of the company. This not only lets the HR department know (not skipping chain), but it lets the owner know HR isn't doing their job.

5) Contact your state/county employment office. Don't file a report at first, but check into employment law and regulation. In some states in the USA, it is against employment law to verbally reprimand employees in front of other employees of a company. You and your co-workers may have a case based solely on that.

As well, you may have a case based on the fact he is telling you what to do in your personal life. If neither your contract with the company nor your employee guidelines forbid you from fraternizing with other employees outside company facilities and operations, you may have right to sue for harassment if HR doesn't stop him from enforcing policies not set forth as part of your employment.

6) (most important) Start looking for another job. I had a boss who was a tyrant, he worked 16 hours a day and on weekends and expected us to as well, would scream at us in front of other employees, scream at employees from *other* departments, told us we shouldn't be talking to people in other departments, etc. Sounds like your boss. I sure as hell hope it's not the same guy I had for a boss. I heard he isn't where I used to work 3 years ago.

Just check...recheck...and check again. Make sure to cover your ass, both under law and by putting everything in writing/email so that you have a paper trail that establishes any wrong-doing he may be doing and that the company is letting him do.

First, sorry to hear the situation your work environment is in.
I am from a small town, and the idea of just "look for another job" doesn't always apply. Here, I can count the number of IT related departments on one hand and have fingers left over. The guys are right that the situation is NOT acceptable. This attitude of "you're below me" and ?Jump <> How high sir?? are only going to lead to hostility.
Try talking with your other co-workers and find out if they have the same feelings as you about the situation. I am sure you'll find that the man with a child will be willing to just quit but has obligations to his family. What you might want to look into is indeed the local Labour laws group in your city.
Steps need to be taken to correct this problem. You can say what ever you want on a discussion board, "yeah, go in and tell him off and walk out with your head held high"... this just doesn't happen in practice. I am assuming you enjoy IT, and that?s why you started working in the field. Not all businesses are the same, but a lot have the same hierarchy. If this is where you want to work, take steps to correct this manager; if you don't want to work here, you need to "start looking for another job".

Best of luck to you in this difficult situation.

wow, read most of the replies..glad i not in america doing IT. most people i know have a much easier time of it over in ireland. my husband has a great job (IT). good money, 9-5 mon-fri.they pay for his cell, he can go home whenever, he can work from home whenever, yes, he may work a wee bit of OT once in a while, or be on call for a weekend, but they make up for it by giving him extra time off, as well as a bonus.
I'm in a good position. worked an hour OT last week, boss said, next friday leave at 4. plus i leaving at 3 today for Dr appt which does not come of my pay.

my advice..find new job, work out yur notice period..forget the place exists after that !
or
move to the uk :)

I don't get the ridiculous deadlines, but I do get the harassment. Most specifically when the e-mail doesn't work. The company I work for is a small MBE. When I started there were 3 other techs. One by one they've left. I myself tried to leave before the last person left, but with the IT job market the way it is, I'm still here.

I myself almost walked out yesterday morning. The boss called me a liar (not the first time), which of course nobody would like. This is in addition to being questioned about my skills and abilities, etc. I hold 4 certs A+, Net+, Server+ and MCP, in addition to having worked with computers from before the Windows days. So, I think I know what I'm doing. I've also been told that those certs mean nothing to the boss, but those certs are what gets contracts for the company. THere have also been a few racial overtones here and there.

So, the bottomline is I'm going on vacation for a few days, and at the end of the month they're getting my 2 weeks notice. IT is a good field. It's what I love to do, and you do to or you wouldn't be in the field. Look hard for another job, check into doing your own thing (which is what I'm going to do).

Good Luck

get one of those small recording devices and try to tape his meetings and har....nt comments. Take it to your ER rep and make a formall complaint. The Comapny has to act on it. Plus you will be on record if the boss ever fires you for not getting the work done.

Start looking. The market has picked up some, and life is too short. Your "Boss" is not a true leader; rather he is a kiss-ass who's only true value in life is that he has some power over three other unfortunates. You will never truly be viewed as an associate. You are most likely viewed only as a necessity, and one no one wants to pay for. There are better ways to be miserable.

Wayne -

IT has, indeed, become a tough profession; one I've counseled a number of young people NOT to pursue unless they have absolutely no other interest in life. But your situation is not real life.

The best way to handle any - any - situation is to "seek first to understand, and then to be understood" (-Stephen Covey).

So... Part A - Seek to Understand...

Based on your description, your manager sounds unbalanced. Imagine how it must feel to be that paranoid! The fact that he remains in his position speaks much about the company's management and probably-toxic corporate culture. (One wonders what the rest of the company is like that this behavior is tolerated, but remember that one of the Dilbert Principles is the craziest people run the world mainly because we'll do whatever they want just to make them shut up and leave us alone!)

Ergo, two assumptions and one fact:
Assumptions:
(1) You and your co-worker are at an impossible disadvantage because you are still behaving professionally,
(2) while your boss has completely freed himself of professional or even civilized constraint.
Fact:
(3) Whenever push comes to shove, management will back management no matter how psychotic.

Your boss is there for a reason. Sometimes, a seemingly out-of-control manager is just doing the work of a higher-up of the same ilk on the inside but who won't do the wet work - wrinkled pea or round pea, they're both peas but one hides it.

No strategy or tactics on your part will help. Any change in the IT department operation will come from above, and since the current situation was apparently created and blessed from above, there's no reason to change it just because of a disgruntled underling or two.

Now, on to Part B - Seek to Be Understood...

You have one chance to be heard, much less understood: Get out, now, both of you, simultaneously.

If you don't hang together, you WILL hang separately.

Plan carefully.

First, quietly and unobtrusively take home every single personal item - everything you care about, everything with your name on it, from professional journals to coffee cups to aspirin.

At the same time, decide whether you think you can both get other jobs within a reasonable time. Even at McDonalds, you'd likely earn more per hour actually worked than you do now, and with a lot less stress. Talk to a consulting firm or two, temp agencies, headhunters, whatever you think you can. If you can both get new IT jobs, great. If not, anything is better than this.

Document your boss' abuses. Write it all down. Dates, times, places, direct quotes.

Finally, write official vanilla resignation notices (pursue other opportunities, further my career, etc.). Submit your notices simultaneously. Lay copies on your boss' desk, turn around immediately and take additional copies to HR and maybe to someone at least two levels higher than boss (but be careful because they all know him and what he's like and are ok with that).

Be prepared for a very ugly reaction from boss and probably from other people. Be prepared for wheedling and whining and guilt-laying-on and give-peace-a-chance from HR. Be prepared to work out your notice or to leave immediately. Most of all, be prepared to go through with it and leave no matter what, because this company is not going to change and it is what it is.

Get out. Get on with your life. Tell your co-worker to get on with her life.

And please don't judge all of IT from this. It can be rough, but for those with the personality for it and a love of the work, it's still a terrific career.

Good luck. And please let us know what happens.

Very well said stress junkie...

Unfortunately there are a lot of incompetnent bosses like the one you have. But I have a pretty good setup where I am and have had at my last couple of jobs so...there are a few good jobs left. Sounds like to me you need to try to find another job. If you devote yourself to it, even though you are very busy during the day, I bet you can find another job - hopefully with a descent boss. Good Luck!

People take jobs for many reasons (earn a living, learn, love of a field, ...) while companies hire people for one reason: to do the work they need done. As long as there is a reasonable balance, everyone is happy.

Clearly not everyone (probably no one) is happy in your situation - I sure would not be. Regardless of who said what or how much of a tyrant your boss is, it comes down to the balance. If you need the job more than they need you (or perceive your value), you have little bargaining power. If they need you more than you need the job, you're in luck: you are in control.

So don't overcomplicate the situation with all the awful and abusive things the boss says. Figure out where you are in the relationship and then make changes to get it in balance. That could mean finding a new job or it could mean becoming more valuable to the company. Only you can decide, but change is needed.

IT can be challenging and I have been through many ups & downs, but I find it rewarding.

Good luck.

Ok Wayne, I was not in the same situation but in a pretty close one.

I work as a DBA in a Financial company. I was hired because they are implementing a new software and one of the terms in the contract with the developer company was to hire a DBA.

Ok, this project started with the left foot as they made a plan for 6 months but apparently without thinking on delays or thinking that the workdays has 14 hours.

When the project started to implementing (I was like in my 2nd month) the consultants (software developers) began to push to get some job done. They always wanted the job done for yesterday (for example to have some files ready to migrate to their database).

But almost all the time, I had the job done on time, they didn?t take the files to get mounted on their database at the time that I gave the files to them (they use a program to migrate data and the process takes like 2 hours), instead they started to migrate at 4 pm.

Now, they insisted in that I had to stay until the migration was complete, so I had to stay until 7 pm for instance (some times until 11 pm).

Also, my boss was always insisting in that I had to come saturdays and even sundays, to not get the project unscheduled. I had calls to my house on weekends, to my cell, until I had to not answer the phone and turn my cell off.

I started to get out early also, at 6 pm, just to show them that I couldn?t do whatever they wanted to.

So the project went out of scheduled (it would be out of scheduled even if we had worked 24 hours a day) and the consultant send a letter to the directors telling that the project was out of schedule because our company and specially because of me.

So I sent a letter to the manager in charge (above my boss) and I did explain each of the problems that the project had but in terms that I have no fault and also that the consultants didn?t planned well, things like:

- The consultants have planned days of how many hours? Cause we work days of 14 hours sometimes. Is not 8 hours the legal?

- I have a private life and my weekends are to be with my family

- No one can put impossible deadlines to my work if they don?t know what is the process to get the job done.

In short, I think that you have to take your and your associates problems with the boss to the next level in the organization. In a letter, signed for all of you.

Also, take in consideration the following:

- There is someone who can take your job if is new in the company (can they replace you as easily?)

- Are your partners so close to you so all of you can confront your boss? (Think in something like tell him that all of you will quit if he continue to push you that way)

- Have you some other chances in other place? (Maybe is time to leave that boat. It depends of how easy you can find a new job)

And remember, even IT is a job of 8 hours. Why others can work just 8 hours and we have to work more without receiving anything on exchange? If the company need someone to put backups at 1 am, so they have to hire someone on a night shift and that?s it.

You have rights man, so claim them.

The best of lucks.

Abraham in Honduras

If that's happening, she should go up the ladder until she gets relief. I suspect they'd rather fire a lousy manager than even try to defend against a suit. I know it's hard to do, but she has to tell or the company can claim "but we didn't know".

I'm guessing you are a member of the Y generation- born after 1978. According to a book I'm reading about Y generation - they are confident, street smart, tech savvy and will not put up with boredom, unchallenging tasks or disrespect. Personally I would move on and fast before the person has chance to erode your self-confidence which to me is more damaging than a lower paying job. I'd rather serve beer at a pub (which gives you the daytime to pursue your bach degree which you mentioned you wanna do) or stack cans at the local supermarket. There are consequences with taking a legal stance is that you might not come up the winner in the long run and what about the upfront legal fees and if you don't win the case. There are hundreds of thousands of companies who need people in IT. And they want you.

Wayne,

Don't give up and get your post your resume.

There are many more satisfying job opportunities out there. You may even be happier as a consultant or a contractor (usually less politics to deal with.) I believe that all of us in IT would agree, that at one time or another, we have all dealt with bad management. These individuals only care about themselves and how great YOU make them look. Get Out and Get Happy! IT IS a great career.

BTW, YOU SHOULD work for McDonalds. They have a huge IT Staff and they actually care about their employees! How ironic would that be - get a job at McDonalds in a career you love and make more money than you boss ever dreamed of!

As for the overtime; check out the article at: http://www.dailyitem.com/archive/2005/0622/biz/stories/05biz.htm

Good Luck we are all with you!

As My wife frequently tells me. Document, document, document. Make notes on everything and keep them off the jobsite.

Remember,You do not have to continue where you are. Get another job soon.
There were some suggestions to tape record. Tape recording your supervisors rants and raves is not always a good idea for public playback. You can however use them for "memory refreshing" and transcriptions of tape recordings are allowable. Why the difference? Who knows? Only recordings made in public places are okay without all parties permission. You would need the owners permission in writing to record at work and present it as evidence. Thanks to a divorce I found out a lot of bad stuff.
Good luck, been there, done that, wore out T-shirt.

You stated the root cause of the problem. The boss is a lousy manager. He's a "yes man". I suspect he's the type that was a lousy techie that somehow got promoted to manager (the classic peter principle).

In IT there will ultimately be times when you have to put in the extra effort to hit a deadline. The key to success is to minimize these times with solid project planning. It sounds like this moron you work for gives the classic "two to three weeks" for any reqest without taking the time to break the problem down, do some basic design, and then getting the people that have to build it "buy in to the schedule".

The good news is that the job market is great at the moment. I'd get a search underway ASAP. I would also make sure this is all very clearly documented and report the guy to upper management. A lawyer would help but at the end of the day you would be out of a job and may not make any money in the process. That said I would definitely consult with a lawyer and see what they say. Find a reputable employment lawyer and not one of these ambulance chasers that advertise on TV.

I'm sorry that you or anyone has to be in the position your in. It sounds like your boss has some serious issues to overcome.
This may be a time for you to look at why you are working in this environment. You may want to review your career and life goals and see how the line up. Based on that you may want to decide to seek employment elsewhere and/or try to talk to someone in HR or a higher level manager.

You have the power to make choices in your life.

Life is meant to be enjoyed, not just endured.
Good Luck

Every serious study about work-effectiveness shows: Increasing working-hours beyond an 8 hours-job does not increase the productivity of your workers. Period. No matter how much time you work after your 8 hours, you will not get done more. Every programmer knows the feeling, to code only bullshit round midnight and spending a good part of the next day to refactor the code and get it clean again. We are not standing at an assembly line, at least sometimes you have to think about what you're doing. Which simply does not work any more after eight hours.

I simply do not understand, why employees don't get this simple facts. Can't they read? Maybe take some courses in business organisation?

The most obvious root of the trouble is the lack of proper measures for productivity, serious agreements on goals. As most organizations lack theses measurements, they fall back onto things that can be measured easily: They just write down the hours you spent inhouse - which is a very poor and inadequate indicator for productivity.

Try to plan ahead and document these plans/goals. There exist numerous measurement-systems for productivity (eg function points), and they can be adapated quite easily to ones own needs - then try to make your boss judge you by your productivity and not by the number of minutes you spent dozing in front of your screen because your tired and burned-out.

And feed your boss with the books from Tom DeMarco ("The Deadline", "Controlling Software Projects", "Slack") - maybe he'll get the message...

Hope you read this, as many things sound like a particular case study that we did for IT Project Management at uni!! The project failed as it was by inexperienced people, (some of them) and leading edge technology, but I think I should maybe send you the whole unit material, and let you try to convince your boss of the right way to do project management.

Oh and he OBVIOUSLY IS OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT that working MORE than say 10 hours, you DON'T get as much work done, than if you work less than the 10 hours.

For a start, it isn't allowing the client/customer to add whatever they like to the application, and also having such short timelines to have it developed in. Please tell me if you would like the case study, or all the material on the unit I did, as I think this IT manager just doesn't know how a project should be run, and doesn't learn from mistakes at all, probably due to not bothering about a post implementation review either.

Some thoughts...

1). Keep a diary of everything. Times, dates of every shouting at, every irrational order. Log it ALL. You can bet he won't be, so it gives you ammunition. Don't be emotional in it (tough one), just factual.

2). Log your working hours.

3). Generate your own estimates of how long items of this work will take. You're the specialists. He should be asking you how long work will take, and allocating resource accordingly. If he's short of resource, then tough for upper management - or he gets to grow his empire!

4) Take your log of his irrational behaviour and your time estimates to upper management. They might be more reasonable, and completely unaware that there is a problem. Mention harassment if necessary - that will get attention.

5). Consider taking your log to a lawyer.

6). Look for a new job.

7). If things get really bad, you could both quit. When the entire development team quits the same afternoon, alarm bells should start ringing - and there go all his 2 week deadlines.

8). Turning out software in 3 days is unprofessional. Even small pieces of work require more testing than that.

9). Start leaving on time. If the projects fall behind, it isn't your lousing work - it's his lousing estimates of the time involved.

Above all, remember, work expands to fill the time available.

Good luck.

Get your CV up to date. Get your co-worker really onside.
Actively search for a new job - both of you.
Get good references.
Blow the whistle upstairs, with the union and the civil rights group.
Then tell the bugger to go get photographed. Take your offsider with you.
In other words, hitch your wagon to a better star and let the present one find its own black hole.

If you and your colleagues have witnessed sexual harassment, or belief such harassment has occurred with a co-worker, than you MUST go to an HR manager immediately. An HR person will listen, especially if more than one person comes forward.

It sounds like your manager is extremely insecure. Of course, he has no business trying to control your private lives. You need to speak with someone in HR about your manager's work habits. If you don't take action, nothing will change.

The sad thing is, long hours are part of the IT territory. It is the not-so-secret secret of American productivity. We need to work long hours in order to compete against lower-wage earners in other countries.

Wayne

I confess I have not read every single reply, just skimmed them. But I think someone has suggested talking to HR ?

One of the first steps you and your co-worker need to take is to know exactly where you stand - what is in your contract ? what policies does the business have in terms of harassement, hours, conditions etc ? This kind of information should be available internally (to the business - not suggesting surgery !)

One thing you might like to check out - independently and outside of the business - is something called "constructive dismissal".

There are 100 things I would suggest given the time and room, but one thing is to make sure that what you are doing is "visible" not just to your boss but to others. e.g. if you have a piece of work to do, document what will be involved and what you need to do, with timescales. Say it comes to 4 weeks and he says do it in 2 - ask him what is to be cut out, and get what he proposes to cut IN WRITING !! After all, it is YOUR professional reputation at stake.

This is actually insanity ...
Do not quit without lining up your next job, but start looking now. First define what you need and don't need, in the type, size of organization, type, size, of department ... industry, geography, and kind of hours (early shifts or 9-5 etc), plus the better salary you will get.
Then get from your County Economic Development office a list of all companies in your county, which will show size, and industry!
Then polish your resume -- your County Workforce Development office will help - ( you do NOT need to be unemployed)Also register as seeking new IT work on the State employment website.
Then write nice cover letters and mail to the CIO or Head of IT, at the companies you are interested in ...
This will take focus, and half-an-hour to an hour each night ... but will help you get some energy going in the direction of sanity, instead of what it is costing you to be oppressed and harrassed by this person ...
Meantime, document use of foul language and threats, and, if you can, record the incidents with HR. If this person is as bad as you say, they should not be in a supervisory role. Also record every change in scope, deadline etc -on a simple spreadsheet that you keep a back-up of ... no emotion, just facts.
If you walk out, you will find it harder to get a decent new job ...

Deep breath, start working the plan, and with God's help in 90 days you will be in a better job in a sane workplace.

OK, I've looked at a few of the responses and it's time for a reality check.

I've been in IT since the mid-seventies and I've worked quite a few places and seen lots of problems.

If you don't like the environment leave! Don't just walk out, make sure you have somewhere to go first.

All this advice of lawsuits and ultimatums is just looking for the fast track out the door and screw up your career. While every company I know has a "neutral referral" policy that they can only give bare employment facts nothing of performance, the "good ol' boy" network will certainly get the info of how you conduct yourself.

The standard response to an ultimatum is to eliminate the employee. Managers cannot afford to be bullied by employee threats. Unless your really well off, the company can afford a better lawyer for a longer period of time than you can. Unless you have some solid stand on a law they are breaking, pretty good odds your just going to end up with a great big lawyer bill and be out a job.

It's pretty simple really, if you don't like where your at, find another job.

If you want low stress try an educational environment, they tend to be more laid back and less stressful. They also pay less. Stay away from banks and insurance companies. Very high stress, VERY demanding.

Unfortunately if you want the big bucks, they expect to get it back out of you in work and no, you don't get a life.

I read a lot of the responses from a variety of positions on this topic. However, I really didn't see much about what to do if you want to keep your job there. As the president of a company, I would suggest that you do a couple of things: write down some notes about date, time, who said what, etc. immediately after one of these conversations; request an appointment with your supervisor's supervisor to discuss this issue. If you don't document the events and inform the company management, they can't do anything about the problem. You certainly don't need to take the abuse, but there are other alternatives to quitting or letting this behavior go on until a crisis develops. Think about what you might gain from using the 'system' rather than quitting or getting fired. You really don't have a lot to lose if you're close to quitting anyway.

Or perhaps the better way to put it is that they die but are replaced by new a$$holes.

I have worked in Europe and would trade my working conditions in the USA for conditions in the Netherlands in a heartbeat. You are treated with respect. You have balance with your family life. There are no great disparities - at least by US standards - between what the bosses make and what the workers make. You get to take a lunch break! You can be home for dinner with your family!

I think that we need to use the model of the early 1920's through the 1950's - the only way an indivdual worker gets a fair shake is to organize and join a union. We do not have the money or the power to do it alone, but together we can get back to the days when a worker could earn enough for a decent middle class life with time for family and some reasonable expectation of a decent retirement and pension. Have a look at techsunite.org

My $.02

My sincerest condolences for working in such a ridiculous situation. Fact is that no matter how much pressure is placed on an IT department any organisation worth its salt would never let a situation reach the depths you describe.

Outside the office doors it's none of his business what you do unless it affects your performance at work (that bit will be somewhere deep in your contract). His complaints only highlight his fears that someone above him or competing with him might find out something he doesn't want them to know. Impossible deadlines and employee discontent are two extremely damning examples.

Ask yourself these questions:
1. Is the company worth working for?
2. Is the work you do enjoyable?
3. Would the situation be acceptable if the deadlines remained the same but the continual stream of put-downs and demanded restrictions were removed?
4. Would you be happier stacking shelves for the same excessive period of time you currently work your kahunahs off for?

If the answer to 4 is yes then get out now.
If the answer to 3 is yes then it's time to remove your boss (though don't expect his replacement to issue longer deadlines as upper-management have got used to short timescales).
The answers to 1 and 2 should help your resolve whether you want to stay or go. If either is no then it's not worth staying regardless of your boss and get looking for other jobs.

Your colleague will clearly have to consider her family. However if she's spending next to no time at home, and when she she is home she's unhappy after work, then even if it means moving home it simply has to be done. Such stress will gradually destroy any homelife either of you have. In the end it could be for more expensive to stay.....

I've not the experience to give you advice on fixing your boss as my only past nightmare leader I left to be derided by his peers (his butt-chasing antics won him more enemies than friends).
All I can say is that there is a challenging, interesting and rewarding IT job out-there for you. I just hope you find it.

That's crazy!! Why are you putting up with that?! OK, here goes, I agree with a fraction of what he's telling you - which is, sometimes we MUST work out of the normal scope of hours. Think about it...those people that society thinks as successful or having a nobel job (i.e., doctors & lawyers) can't do jack-sh*t without us. And he in critical-systems type environment (i.e., hospitals) that comes with the "Yes, I accept" on your offer letter. So, that being said, Dude, wake up, suck it up and get back to work! NOW, having said that, to defend you - he's so off-the-rocker it's pathetic. He can't do what he's doing - and fear never motivates troops to perform well cuz you can always get another job. And to crank out good software won't take three weeks - developing, testing, prototyping, client comments, re-developing, re-testing, client sign-off......isn't going to take a lowzy 3 weeks... Mail-bomb him...no, wait, don't do anything crazy.. I'm just an I.T. veteran who gets p*ssed-off to read something like this, that a boss is taking advantage of his staff. But, o.k., turn it around, say "Boss, since I worked over-time to get whatever done, I'd like to have off on WhateverDay" (assuming you worked over 40 hours by Thursday)...observe his response, it's called Comp-Time as most employers don't want to pay over-time but will let you time-sheet those hours and take time off for them. Also that'll show that you're be coming aware of how things work in the job market. (no offense but I assume you're a junior-level person working in a small company???)... Nutshell is, we've all been there, taking the slack-jobs because we're junior-level, but that's no reason to be abused - I'd start looking elsewhere, like in a consultancy (where the bucks are bigger and you can gain experience quicker - and on much better high-tech equipment where you otherwise wouldn't). Peace.

In my opinion you should go to the higher management and complain about this guy. You ee, his behaviour indicates that he is insecure about his own position at the company and so by threatening and humiliating you, he is coaxing his ego into believing that he is in charge.

The other reason could be that he desperately wants to get into the good graces of THE BOSS. Not the nicest ways to do so. So, the best solution would be to calm down, think it over a night and go and talk to somebody in a senior position. Tell them your side of the story and be calm about it the whole time, make it appear as if you have given deep thought to this situation and theres no alternative other then thie fellow meding his ways or a replacement.

Hope you resolve the problem soon.

Best.

You work in a sick environment. If you want to stay and try to heal it, and take the risk that it might kill you, stick around. (Thank God the medical people are willing to do that sort of thing.) It got to this point because many people long ago did nothing to up front deal with this guy. What might have been cured with a simple procedure now will take full blown high risk surgery.

Prioritize your life needs and if he doesn't value you as a person and your point of view, ask him to prioritize which projects he would like you to complete before you walk out the door. Let him know in no uncertain terms that it is under your terms, not his. Slavery was outlawed a long time ago.

tol

Basically, 10 years or so ago, I worked as a bookkeeper/counter person for a small family owned company. The owner came flat out and told me one day that I have to choose which is more important to me, my job or my family. After working for them for four years and going from a starting pay of $5 per hour to a whopping $6 per hour, I thought that was stupid.

Needless to say after much thought and deliberation, I decided to quit. There was no other job lined up and waiting for me but I knew that I had to.

Now I have a very good job. One that respects me and my family. I'm a programmer/IT person in the same town as I started in. Yes, my job can be demanding and it can have some strange hours. But I'm making over 4 times what I was before and if I need to go home to spend time with one of my children or run an errand, I can with out being made to feel guilty.

Don't limit your self. Everybody here has offered some good advice and points. Document what you can, and most of all don't be afraid to take a chance.

If it helps any, I have worked at a Mc Donald's recently, just for a change of pace :). The pay is not great, but the people do work hard. I actually felt more stress about getting to work on time (I did weekend openings) than I did about delivering a new project at my day job.

No matter what you choose to do, good luck!

Your boss that is. Yes you can expect some odd working hours with IT, especially with programming and devlopment but not like this.

I thinkk he's just looking out for number one, himself.

More than anything else, your company would have a code of conduct regarding employees and how you should be expected to behave within the workplace. Guaranteed he's breaking them, which can be a sackable offence. You've also got union rules, regardless of whether your a union member or not. Unions are there to look after employee's rights, so check into it and give the twat a good kick in the backside.

He's not only loosing respect from you but if you ensure his actions are brought forward, he will loose credibility with the company. Once you loose credibility in IT, your IT career can go downhill very fast.

Don't feel disenheartened by his actions, not everyone in IT is like that.

Oh and a good old stop work meeting will be bound to put the wind up him. :)

You happen to have found a bad apple. Seems like you have a talented hacker as a manager; this is bad - and it sounds like he's a geek with low people skills, making it worse. Which, unfortunately, sometimes happens in IT. He's trying to cover up is people skill failure with his bosses and the other managers by blaming you.

But, yes, you ARE entitled to a life, and many states wil enforce it.

See if you can find the following facts online:
Your state's employment rules (and don't let them claim you are management). This chould include breaks you get and maximum times which you must work, and whether overtime is voluntary.
Your state's leave policy - over 30 states have family time leave rules.
Definitions of harassment, for your co-worker.
How to Win Friends and Influence People - for your manager.
Another Job. If you're doing VB.NET and web design, you should have no problems, really.

Wayne,

Any job in any field should not be like you describe. Any good, challenging job will have deadlines that require you to go the extra mile and work more than 40 hours, probably more than occasionally. There might even be spurts that will run a couple/few weeks at a time. However, if this is a daily/weekly/monthly occurance with no let-up, there's something wrong with the manager and/or the company. If the feeling you have is shared among your co-workers, that's a sign that something larger is wrong.

If the feelings are shared, which it sounds as if they are, save yourself some grief and find an IT position in a different company where they respect the employees more than they seem to at your current company. Your manager needs to make decisions, but they shouldn't be unrealistic decisions of deadlines. That just brings down morale and productivity. Ironically, your boss things he/she is increasing productivity by driving his subordinates into the ground.

You don't say how much experience you have in the IT field, but I'll repeat myself: Understand that IT, like any job, requires dedication and committment. There will be times where you may work 80 hours in a week to meet a deadline. That should be expected. Let's face it, not many people want to work more than 40 hours a week, but to get a specific project done you may need to. Try to put this in perspective when searching for another position, if you choose to do so. A good employer wants someone that is dedicated and is willing to burn the midnight oil when needed, but realizes that the lamp shouldn't be burned until there's no fuel left.

Good luck.

Time to move on, my friend. My experience is that guys like your boss are popular with their bosses because they deliver the goods. Going higher probably won't help because presumably the next guy up put your boss in his place. If he sided with you, he'd be admitting he made a bad decision, one of the few decisions that these guys actually make, and would have to account for that to his boss (who could be the owner in a small outfit). That's why bad management can hang on so long - of course, once the relevant mentor leaves or retires, his useless managers get phased out. But that's too far down the line to help you. And I'm afraid no one will care if even two of you walk out the door - they'll replace you with other slaves who will stick around for 6 - 12 months, and that's long enough to . . . deliver some more of the goods. On the positive side, there are actually lots of good jobs around.

This person sounds like a sociopath. There are many of these people in business. Some of the warning signs are:
- Manipulative and cunning
- Grandiose sense of self (it's a special job)
- Lack of remorse, guilt or shame.
- Glibness/Superficial charm (in this case, to the ones above).
- Pathological lying
- Callousness/lack of empathy
- Shallow emotions
These are a few signs - there are others. Look up 'sociopath' on the internet - you may find some behavioral correlations with your boss. Unfortunately, these people can do well for a while before the damage they do is discovered. Ultimately, they drive away all the talent, just leaving the ones that can't find other work.

I would advise you to get your resume together and get out ASAP. Telling anyone won't help - the boss will find out and make your job worse (if possible).

Good luck.

No, your managers' behavior is NOT what IT is all about. The wierd beliefs and attitudes I can't say about, but there are labor laws that protect you, and you should have some type of HR department, or atleast someone to talk to about the amount of time you work. Do a google on Fair Labor Standards Act. That might help on the working 24hrs with no comp. with no life outside of work either. There are other companies that have great IT departments that encourage self-improvement and increasing your skills. There is no way you should settle for McDonalds.
Griz

I would keep a written record of future harrassment, and then quit and sue the company for Constructive Dismissal.

Constructive Dismissal is when an employee leaves a job because of the unacceptable behaviour of his employer. Examples of Constructive Dismissal can include:

1. Not supporting employees in difficult work situations.

2. Harassing or humiliating staff, particularly in front of other less senior staff.

3. Victimising or targeting particular members of staff.

4. Changing the employee's job content or terms without consultation.

You need the record in order successfully to sue the company for damages. However it is difficulat to win cases, and you need trade union and/or legal advice before acting.

In addition the Working Time Directive means it is illegal for anyone to be forced to work more than 48 hours. Another reason for trade union advice.

Unfortunately I have been through this senario more times than I care to think about. You are dealing with a control freak who has no one`s interest in mind but his own. He is trying to look good to the bosses at your own expense. Either you have to remove him, or yourself from this situation as he will NEVER change!
And yes you do have legal recourse, but you have to build your case because if you go off the handle and rant, he`ll out bullshit you faster than a snake oil salesman. How you handle this depends a lot on the actual size of the company you work for. A large company would have a human resource dept. that supposedly would handle this, which would be the proper chanel before going off and trying to sue. But from I gather this is rather a small company. My sugestion is find yourself a lawyer first, and ask. To make a case he`ll tell you what must be said and done in order to make a viable case, and what evidence he`ll need to persue the case in court.
If this sounds dire it is. You are dealing with a manager that will see you fired before he`ll let you rain on his little empire. One reason he doesn`t want you to socialize with the rest of the company is control. These deadlines are HIS idea, not the head bosses. What is even sadder is his bosses are letting him get away with it. They will claim they never knew, but in reality as long as he produces(meaning you), they will look the other way.
Oh, by the way, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!! Everyting he says...the content it was said in...the time it was said, and as one reader said, a tape recorder is worth a thousand words. Also, answer everything, even comments, in an email. Even if he makes a comment in a meeting or the hall, repeat what he said in the email, and then your reply. My son was fired from a software company for a disability, but his case turned into a $50,000 case instead of a $250,000 case because he didn`t follow this advice.There are other things you can do, but the main concern is to protect yourself.
One thing you MUST understand. There is NO HOPE for this work relationship to continue without either him leaving or the slow destruction of you. This boss has definately crossed several legal limits, but how you handle it will depend if you can recover financially. Being asmall company I doubt once any legal action is taken if you will remain at the job when all is said and done. But the last thing you want to do is fight on his level. His kind are oily snakes and they survive because they don`t care about anyone but themselves. Be smart about this, and you may be able to get him removed(doubtful) but at least make his mismanagement pay.

If you are aware of it and aren't doing anything then should't you?

You have one of two choices. Quit or document everything and when he fires you take the company to the labor board and make sure there is alot of press. He'll end up unemployed too, but with a bad rep.

I work for a very large company and at no time is OT demanded. It is rare that I have to put in extra hours and when it is done we are rewarded by a great and generous management team. This guy is not a boss but a slave driver. Find something else, get out now.

Wayne,

I feel your pain. I have been working 7-days a week for the past several months. My "weekends" are spent doing work from my home PC. This past weekend I needed to go away for the calendar weekend with my sons. This morning I feel I am being punished for having a life! My inbox filled up with some nasty emails because the people left in charge of my project for the two days I was out of town couldn't handle it. They are more experienced than I by the way but you should see the mess I have on my hands! When I got home last night from my trip I checked my work email and came away worried I even had a job this AM!

Sorry for not giving you a solution but I hope it makes you feel better that there's more of us out here than you may realize who are sitting at the same terminal! I know now why so many of my friends are getting out of this field or doing contract work so they can set their own schedules.

Being in IT isn't the problem. No matter what kind of work you do, your quality of life is going to depend to a large degree on the personality of your immediate supervisor, no matter what level of a company you work in. If you're in IT, that means you have some esoteric skills that not everyone learns. This means that:

1. You're probably smarter than your boss (and this will likely be the case for the rest of your life.)
2. The boss knows this.

How the boss reacts to the juxtaposition of items 1 and 2 creates your work environment. If your boss has an ethical clue and is reasonably comfortable in his or her skin and has no hidden agendas, you're probably okay. But if your boss is uncomfortable with the idea that you're actually smarter than he or she is, and is motivated by a combination of insecurity and personal ambition untempered by an overriding ethic, then you're in trouble.

Next, if you work for a company, there's another fact of life you need to be aware of: Your employer's goal is to give you salary and working conditions that are just good enough to keep you from quitting. Anything more than that comes off of his bottom line. How complex your environment is and how steep the learning curve would be for a new person to pick up your job plays into the equation, of course, but you're just a cog in the employer's profit machine. Get used to it or get up your gumption and become an independent consultant.

I could not disagree more with those who think that the solution lies in more government and regulatory controls. Sarbanes-Oxley is a good example of the bad consequences of good intentions, and our culture is rife with such. Government isn't the answer.

In your place, be calm and tender your resignation to your boss's boss, in writing. State clearly your reasons for leaving -- that your boss is unreasonable, an otherwise sane person who makes insane demands that create an untenable work environment and constitute an egregious breach of professional behavior that is unacceptable. Tell the big boss that you're not quitting the company, but you have no choice but to fire your supervisor for unprofessionalism and incompetence -- his job includes people skills, and the behavior you describe is way under par for professional management.

And always be prepared for the consequences. You're tendering your resignation, so be prepared to hit the pavement. The big boss may try to keep you, but let him know that you will not stay under this supervisor. If that means you're out of a job, let him know that you have no prejudice against the company, just this one poltroon of a supervisor. Smile, shake the big boss's hand, and let him know you're sorry it didn't work out. This is a great company to work for, but one unprofessional and incompetent jerk creates an environment that doesn't meet the professional standards set by the company.

By the way, if the big boss is also a jerk, nix the speech. Just get out the door as fast as you can and let the next sacrificial IT lamb come in to take the next set of abuse. Sometimes you can outlast jerks, but sometimes there are other factors involved (e.g. the jerk is a relative of the company's owner, the jerk is blackmailing an officer of the company, etc.)

You can always leave. Unemployment is never a good thing, but it's not always the worst thing, and it doesn't last forever.

One more thing -- if your resume has a lot of short term engagements where you've worked for a lot of jerks, look in the mirror. There are a lot of jerks out there in the world, to be sure. But if you always seem to be working for one, YOU may be the problem: It may be that you're taking jobs you ought not to take and need to improve your interview skills so you can detect a bad work environment ahead of time (pay attention to those alarm bells that start ringing during the interview process) or perhaps you have one or more character flaws that lead you to sabotage your own work environment. It's not an either/or thing, but if you have a long string of bad work environments, YOU play some role in the equation somewhere, if inadvertently.

Take charge of your own future.

-- Mitch

Why do you tolerate this???

Start actively looking for a better job. There are quite a few good job web sites where you can post your resume. In my opinion, finding a new job will certainly be the best answer to give to your abuser. Don't put up with this. By the way, it sounds like your boss could definitely use some counseling -- for mental problems.

Wayne,

Yipes! I've heard some strange ones, but this one really takes the cake!

If I were you, I would go find work somewhere else. You've got a real kook for a boss.

IT can sometimes be on the stressful side, yes. The hours can sometimes be long and, yes, the expectations by people who "don't have a clue" about the difficulty level of our work can be completely unreasonable. However to specifically state that you are not allowed to have a life outside your work? That's completely uncalled for, completely nuts and a complete reason to move on somewhere else.

-Bruce

Now you know why unions have been formed in the past. Most businesses reward the managers or policies that can suck the most profitability out of employees for the least (pay, benefits, pension, personal time) possible. And there is really no way to stop them, you can only hope to get lucky at a different company or division.

So much that could be said, so little time. . .

Granted, you've gotten a lot of viable advice, but some
of it misses the mark in one sense or another.

First off, yes-- IT careers are increasingly becoming
demanding to extremes. There's not much to be done
about it , either-- but I have heard a lot of rumbling that
salaried "sweatshops" are increasingly a complaint for
lawmakers, so we'll see what happens. Not ALL
companies are this bad, but you have to find one that
understands the balance between productivity and not
having burned-out folks.

Secondly, you might want to ask HR for their ADVICE.
Don't walk in to HR complaining about your boss
directly. Sit down with the HR manager, describe your
situation as indirectly and professionally as possible,
and ask for his/her ADVICE. LISTEN, and do NOT
launch into any diatribes. This will put you in a better
position with HR, as you'll have asked their advice AND
gotten their sympathies/involvement. If you're lucky,
someone will say something to your boss or his boss
within a week.

Nextly, I'd consider firing off a copy of your rant to Bob
Lewis at InfoWorld, and see if he posts a response in
his blog at the InfoWorld website. Bob has a sound
perspective on these sorts of issues, being an IT
management consultant. It's my favorite read on
frustrating IT matters.

Wayne62682, I feel your pain. From the way you describe the working situation, it is more of a dictatorship then a working environment. But even dictatorships can be broken. Does the entire IT department feel the same as you? If you all do, then it would be suggested that you all ban together and take the boss aside and discuss the situation with him. No one person should speak for the entire group. But approach it as a group. Maybe the boss doesn't realize what he/she is doing. Develop action plans and to have regular (timed) meetings to go over strategies for the week or day. You also need to realize that in today's society, for salaried people that don't do time clocks, there is not such thing as a 40 hr work week. I myself am not entirely in the IT world (started in acct mgmt) and I can't remember the last time I did 40 hrs unless we were closed for a holiday.
Good luck in your endeavors.

If you like where you work and your boss has a boss talk to your bosses boss about your feelings and see what happens. If they can not come up with a resolution let them know that the reason they see you getting smaller is because your leaving!

Personally, if I was having this many problems where I worked I wouldn't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out!

This is an old story heard frequently. The Donald Trump ?want-ta-be? suffering from taking the wrong medicines, combined with stress and lack of compassion for what ever reason. Unfortunately, legal avenues only spawn more legal avenues. One would have to question the man?s sanity and one?s own loyalty to the company. Based on what you?ve said, I don?t think he?s crafty enough to correctly test his employees, therefore he is what he is. Silently look for another job.

You have said it already. All the pieces of the puzzle are there.

The warning phrases are "he is a yes man, does what his boss says/asks"

Your boss doesnt know much about managing IT. Add in that he is a yes man (which shows he does not have any stones to stand by his people. Sadly, as I have learned being a manager doesnt mean that you can manage.

Unless he gets let go, or someone blows the whistle on him, I dont see anything changing. And since you work in a small company I think alot of the fallout will land on your shoes, I recommend start looking for a new job.

As a devoloper/IT admin, you have skills that are in demand. You can find another job, probably not as fast as you wish, but it is doable.

No, this is not normal for IT. It happens everywhere.

Your boss sucks. Look for a better job.

It sounds like you can afford to quit, seeing as how you almost quit yesterday. If that is the case, I wouldn't quit, but I would no longer care about getting fired.

Work within the limits you think are acceptable. Arrive at 9:00, work while your working, leave at 5:00. If he wants to fire you ... you are probably better off ... but he probably won't fire you for something stupid, and he will be stumped when you put the ball in his court to fire you.

Don't get emotional, just let his shit slide off you. Having a job you don't care about getting fired from is incredibly liberating.

But keep looking for a better job.

Good luck.

I have been an IT pro now for 33 years and I have never had to tell my folks whether to stay or not. I have led by example. If one of my employees / co-workers needed time with his/her family I told that they MUST go to their family because that is Why we are working. Not for the company but to support our families. I have yet to ask anyone to stay for any time. If the IT Manager puts the workers first then he will have a dynOmite dept. If he puts that many barriers to having fun or at least a decent working environment he will be alone and he will have a difficult time meeting the demands of the other managers. You and your "fellows" should look for another place to go for work. There are too many hours that we spend at our place of employment to spend it in a POd manner. IT people have enough pressure from the type of job and lack of experience or knowledge without putting more on the individual. WE PUT PRESSURE on ourselves, we don't need more from our co-workers. Smile, and ask him for a raise..... it is NOT the nature of the business.

Small Business Solutions, Inc.
Ronald McCallister, Senior Systems Engineer
Vice President.