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Win98 Network Problem

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by liaor

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I have a Win98 network set up where a cable modem is in the uplink of a hub and two computers are connected through the same hub.
One of the computers (say Computer1) can acquire an IP address from the cable modem just fine, but the other (say Computer2) can not. When this happened, I started to isolate hardware. Currently, the hub, cable modem, and NIC are not at fault, for I have used different connection combinations to rule them out. If I use another computer, it can acquire an IP just fine.
Next, I disconnected the cable modem and tried to establish manual IPs on both computers. Computer1 is 192.168.1.1 and Computer2 is 192.168.1.2
They could not ping each other at all.
On Computer2 (the one that cannot connect), I keep on acquiring this bogus IP repeatedly. It cannot seem to contact the DHCP server and grab another IP.
DHCP is enabled in TCP/IP and everything is set to automatic when I try to grab an IP.
The NIC shows activity, but is unable to reach any computer.

Does anyone know how to get Computer2 on the network? Thanks.

22 replies

by ryder007

Hi in order to get the 2nd comp online you would need a router. A hub will let you file and print share with the other comp but will not let you share cable modem. A router would let you do both.

by liaor

Remember, I got another computer to work putting two computers on the network. I've had a cable modem shared through the hub (by uplink) in other networks.

by mckaytech

It sure sounds like a bad NIC or NIC driver on computer number two but I'm stumped because you say you've already tried substituting hardware.

What I usually do in a case like this is try a completely different brand of NIC and a fresh driver andsee what happens then.

One other little factoid in which I would be interested is whether "ipconfig /all" shows anything weird (wrong gateway, perhaps?) and whether you can ping the machine itself (in other words, set a manual address and then ping that address). The settings that have to be right for a ping to work are the address, subnet mask and gateway.

There are only four components that have to be working to get IP connectivity: the NIC, the NIC driver, the cable and the hub. The problem has to be in one of these four components. Getting Computer2 on the network will just be a matter of figuring out which one is not playing nicely.

paul

by liaor

Current Hardware Verifyed To Be Working
Cable Modem
Hub
CAT5 Cable (Patch)
NIC
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A whole new computer (mine) was substituted on my friend's network to verify that these parts were indeed working
---------------------
The substitution on the NIC was from some Third Party (Encore that used Realtek Drivers) to the 3Com 3C-905C NIC. I get the same results

winipcfg gives me a bogus IP (Something starting with 169)
The Subnet Mask is 255.255.0.0
There is no gateway onComputer2, but there SHOULD be.
The DHCP server which is wrong I think is 255.255.255.0. All settings should have been acquired from the DHCP.
The localhost loopback (127.0.0.1) works just fine.
This computer is my friend's computer and I do not have access to it at the time.

Thank you for your answer

by mckaytech

A couple more things you could check. First, some cable systems cache the MAC address of the computer using them so another system will not be issed a DHCP address until that MAC address is cleared. Methods for clearing it vary but one commonly used one is to power off the cable modem for some period of time (say 20 minutes).

The other thought I have is that you may not be authorized for a second IP address or you may not have the workstation correctly configured. For my cable ISP, the hostname of the computer has to be set to a value that they supply or their DHCP server will not issue an IP address.

Because of those complications, I would forget the cable modem until you can verify basic connectivity with a static IP. Once you KNOW you have that connectivity, then try to obtain an IP address through the cable modem.

paul

by liaor

In response to clearing the MAC addresses and authorizing a second IP address, there were two computers successfully connected to the cable modem network, so that couldn't be it. (By the way, the ISP provides up to three IP numbers).

We've already tried using static IPs to no avail.
COMPUTERNAME=IP/SubnetMask
Computer1=192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0
Computer2=192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0
No DNS/No DHCP
Both 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 could not ping each other (This is what really stumped me.)

by paul majestic

Personally the only way I've ever had a cable modem connection shared has been through a router that is unless your running some sort of proxy server.

by liaor

It is possible to do it through a hub.
Actually, I would prefer to network it through a router or proxy server.
My network at home is done through a proxy server.
However, my friend's network only has a hub and we can only work with a hub.
It's possible since it has successfully been done (at another friend's house).

by ann777

The only thing i can add to the above... is to recheck the hub. On some hubs, the uplink port is shared with another regular port. Usually the shared port is indicated on the hub, by a line emcompassing the uplink port and another port. Look atthe hub. If you see a line drawn between the uplink and another port, then you should not use that shared port.

If computer2 is on a shared port, then that explains why it is picking up a bogus ip number 169.254.x.x/255.255.0.0 (this is a windows default). Computer2 is not on your network, and that is why you cannot ping it.

by liaor

The shared port on the hub is port one, which is not used at all.

Computer1 was probably on port 3 and Computer2 was probably on port 7.

Also, you must remember that another computer picked up the IP on the same port.

Thanks for telling me that 169.254.x.x was a Windows Default. I did not know that.

by liaor

The uplink port on the hub is shared with port 1. We readjusted the ports to no avail.
Computer1 is probably on Port 3.
Computer2 is probably on Port 7.

Computer2 still cannot access network services, but my computer that I substituted could.
Thanks for your input

by ann777

Okay, here's another series of things to try (what can i loose?)...

From Computer2, go to start--Run-->and type regedit --> OK. Then browse on over to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\DHCP

and delete everything under it

Then delete everything under the DhcpOptions key that is also HLM...\VxD\DhcpOptions.

Then close the registry...
Go to control panel --> Network --> make sure that DHCP is enabled and that the static ip addresses ate no longer there. Make sure that Your network or worgroup name on the Identification tab is the exact same on both computer1 and computer2. Make sure that all cables and connections are secure to the hub.

Shutdown and then restart. see if you get an ip addressthen. If still not... then on computer2, go back to Control Panel --> Network --> 3com NIC? (or whatever NIC is in this computer) --> Properties --> Advanced --> Media Type and manually force it to 10BaseT, full duplex. Reboot and retry. If still not working try 10BaseT, half duplex.

by ann777

I understand that you've swapped hardware, and it still did not work. Which points to something (probably the registry on computer2), being screwed up. But maybe it's also a combination of things. Sometimes forcing a NIC to a lower setting in the difference between a network functional computer or not. My home network is mainly 3com nics, but recently a friend gave me another computer, minus a hdd. I purchased a hdd and installed the drivers for his netgear nic, only to find the same sort of problem. I had to reduce it's speed to 10BaseT in order for it to function at all on my home network. The NIC is 10/100, and is probably going bad.... but at this time, it is working at the lower setting.

You must also be using some sort ofICS software (internet connection sharing) in order to share the one uplink port on your hub. You may need to reinstall that software after editing the registry.

Hopefully this resolves it for you. I'd be interested in what the final resolutionis.

by ann777

I re-read all the comments. If your ISP is providing three ip address, then you do not need any ICS software installed. This configuration should be working.

by liaor

I told my friend to delete the entire branch on the DHCP and DHCPOptions, then reconfigured the TCP/IP appropriately. We restarted the computer, and the default IP still popped up. Do you have any more ideas?
Currently, I'm getting my friend to do a fresh reinstall of Windows.

Thanks for your input

by psychokitty2

i have had this problem before. here is what i did to fix it. remove the nic adapter drivers and turn off your machine. open up your computer and move the nic card to a different pci slot and reinstall the drivers. dont ask me why this works, butit does. i have done this in winnt4 and win98 and it works every time i do it. i would be very surprized if it does not work.

by liaor

We've tried this already in all three PCI slots and came up with the same results.

Thanks for your input

by ngcmos

HI There :-)
I highly doubt it is any of your networking hardware, and I have never had to go in my registry to fix a networking issue, but ya learn somethin new everyday.
ANy ways Part 1 (The 2 computers commuinicating with each other): A quick thing to look at would be the workgroup name, and that Identical protocols are same on each computer(i.e both should have TCP/Ip installed). Right click on Network Neighborhood then click Identites and check your workgroup names on both PC's and make sure they are Identical.
Part 2: Your Internet Connection
Make sure you have the right NIC speed set for your hub if the Hub is does not have "10/00" written on it somewhere then make sure your setting for transmission speeds are set a 10 mbps half duplex. And If possible use auto-sense. If you need more help contact me.
Nate

by liaor

The workgroup name was checked at the beginning already.
TCP/IP is already installed on both computers (thats how I could for static IPs when I needed to), for Computer1 can access the network just fine.
The hub is a 10 Base T only hub.
We've already forced 10 Mbps Full Duplex to no avail.
Why would I need half duplex for the hub? I can see the merit for troubleshooting reasons, but you must remember that another computer successfully connected to the network (without having the same workgroup name), therefore verifying the cable modem, hub, and cable to be okay.

Thanks for your input.

by vitoga

There is no problem with any of your hardware or software.
Your cable modem dishes out a single IP address for one client to use. It will only connect to that IP address. You can use either a router, gateway, a computer using Internet Connection sharing (and 2 NIC cards), or any computer with 2 NIC's and IP fowarding and a DHCP server to dish out IP's to all of the other clients.
You see the cable modem acts as a router and a single IP DHCP server. It obtains an address from your cable provider for the side connected to the cable and it gives out only one IP address on the RJ45 side for the cable modem to connect to. It will only accept and route packets to your internet provider from the client with the IP address it gives out. A router can obtain that IP address from the cable modem and it will allow you to have an entire home network of IP addresses on the other side of the cable modem and it will always send packets to the cable modem with the IP address that the cable modem will accept. A 98 machine with 2 NIC cards and Internet Connection Sharing will do the same thing.
The router method is the best method. Especially with today's home routers. They usually have a DHCP server and a Firewall built in to the router and it will give you the added convenience of not having to both computers on at the same time (something you have to do with ICS). If you buy a new home router the instructions will be included on setting up a home network. Good luck.

by liaor

Once again, you must remember that my other computer worked from the same port that Computer2 was not working in.

Also, I know I am allowed up to three IPs from the ISP. Two computers have been successfully connected at the same time. Only Computer2 was not able to receive a connection

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Message to Anna777
Once I can get access to my friend's computer, I will try your answer. Until then, I cannot rate it. Sorry for the wait.

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