Smartphones

The 10 elite smartphones of 2010

With the rise of Android, the reboot of BlackBerry, and the redesigned iPhone, 2010 can rightly be called the year of the smartphone. Here are the best devices of the year.

With the rise of Android, the reboot of BlackBerry, and the redesigned iPhone, 2010 can rightly be called the year of the smartphone. After reviewing nearly all of the top devices, here is my countdown of the best devices of the year.

Slideshow

Slideshow: The 10 best smartphones of 2010

10. BlackBerry Torch

BlackBerry came under intense pressure in 2010 from the rapid growth of iPhone and Android. The smartphone incumbent fired back with the release of the BlackBerry 6 OS and a new form factor with a slide-down keyboard in the BlackBerry Torch. The device is a bit underpowered, the OS isn't a huge step forward, and overall it hasn't been enough to stem the losses to Apple and Google. But, there are still a lot of BlackBerry fans out there -- not to mention all of the enterprises locked into BlackBerry -- and for them, the Torch is now the pre-eminent device on the market.

9. Motorola Droid 2

This shows how much progress the smartphone market has made in one year. Last year, I would have ranked the original Motorola Droid and the Apple iPhone 3GS as the two best smartphones on the market. This year, the Droid got a very nice upgrade but still struggled to make the top 10. Still, due to its increased specs, solid build quality, and very usable form factor, the Droid 2 belongs on this list. Also, don't miss its cousins, the Droid Pro and the Droid 2 Global.

8. HTC Incredible

With much the same innards as the Google Nexus One (although not nearly as strong of a build quality), the HTC Incredible was a consolation prize for those who had been salivating for the Nexus One on Verizon. Unfortunately, Google and Verizon pulled the plug on those plans and instead HTC offered the Incredible through Verizon with the traditional two-year contract. The Incredible did get one thing that the Nexus One didn't have: HTC's Sense UI. Some viewed that as a bonus over the stock Android OS on the Nexus One, while others saw it as a detractor.

7. Samsung Focus

Microsoft finally got itself back in the smartphone game in 2010 with the launch of Windows Phone 7, and the first widely-available WP7 device was the Samsung Focus, which didn't disappoint. The Focus sported nice hardware specs in an attractive, futuristic form factor (albeit with a lot of plastic, similar to the Galaxy S). And, Windows Phone 7 offered a new take on smartphone UI that is a little but more polished and fluid than Android or BlackBerry, although not quite as finished as the iPhone.

6. Motorola Droid X

Verizon Wireless went all-in on Android in 2010, launching a steady stream of new Android-powered devices throughout the year and replacing BlackBerry with Android as its primary smartphone platform. The Droid X served as Verizon's flagship Android phone, with its huge screen, 8MP camera, enterprise-class hardware, and extensive list of high-end features.

5. HTC Desire

While the HTC Incredible had the same guts as the Nexus One but a much different outer shell, the HTC Desire had similar internals and an outer shell that closely resembled the high quality metal casing on the Nexus One. The Desire quickly became one of the most popular smartphones in Europe and Australia by mid-2010 and has spread to other carriers through the globe since then. Along with the Nexus One and the iPhone 4, the Desire feels like the most substantial and high quality smartphone on the market. You should also keep an eye on the HTC Desire HD and the HTC Desire Z.

4. Samsung Galaxy S

Samsung joined the Android movement with all guns blazing in the middle of 2010 by releasing its line of Galaxy S smartphones in a variety of different form factors (and a confusing array of product names) on all four US wireless carriers and a fleet of international carriers. In the US, the Samsung Vibrant and the Samsung Epic 4G were the most impressive of the Galaxy S phones, but all of the models across the globe have same technology base and generally provide a very good Android experience.

3. Google Nexus One

The first big smartphone of 2010 was the Google Nexus One, launched just after the new year and right before CES 2010. As a product, the long-rumored "Google Phone" wasn't a disappointment. It had excellent build quality (developed by HTC) and ran the stock Android OS, which got all of the latest Android updates directly from Google. However, the phone failed in its larger mission of moving the US telecom market toward the European model of being able to buy phones and wireless service separately. The Nexus One was sold as an unlocked device at full price ($500) through Google's online store. Google was not well prepared to handle customer service and didn't give US consumers enough time to warm up to the idea of buying a full price device. It also never released the promised CDMA version of the Nexus One. Eventually, Google abandoned the product altogether and replaced it in December with the Nexus S, built by Samsung and available under traditional contract with T-Mobile.

2. HTC EVO 4G

The premier Android device of 2010 was the HTC EVO 4G. It was the first major smartphone to break the 4-inch screen barrier. It was the first 4G smartphone in the US. It was the first major smartphone with an 8.0 megapixel camera. It was the first major smartphone to feature a kickstand (for video viewing). I pejoratively called it the "Hummer of smartphones" because of its massive size and the fact that it's such as battery hog, but there's no arguing that the EVO 4G stretched the boundaries of what was possible in a smartphone and forced all of its competitors to play catch-up.

1. Apple iPhone 4

With all of the momentum that was gathering around Android during the first half of 2010, Apple's iPhone 3GS was starting to look pretty stale by mid-year -- especially since it was only a slight upgrade over the iPhone 3G from 2008. Then, Apple unveiled iOS4 and the iPhone 4 and launched itself back to the head of the class with top-quality hardware and a software experience that still outpaces all of its rivals in terms of ease of use, responsiveness, polish, and third-party software. The iPhone 4 antenna problem, which was more severe than Apple acknowledged but a lot less severe than the tech press portrayed it, was a wart for the iPhone 4. It also still lacks the widget capability of Android (and now Windows Phone 7). But, overall, the iPhone 4 remains the gold standard of the smartphone market.

Honorable mentions

  • Motorola Droid Pro
  • HTC HD7
  • Dell Venue Pro
  • T-Mobile G2
  • BlackBerry Bold 9780
  • HTC Aria

Also read

About

Jason Hiner is the Global Editor in Chief of TechRepublic and Global Long Form Editor of ZDNet. He is an award-winning journalist who writes about the people, products, and ideas that are revolutionizing the ways we live and work in the 21st century.

109 comments
hugh
hugh

Nokia N8 is far and away the best smartphone of 2010 and your article missed it. In fact you missed Symbian phones entirely. Most of the smartphones in the world run Symbian. Symbian^3 and the N8 are remarkable advances. Best compatibility, most apps, best performance as a phone, pda, & mobile media centre... Clearly you didn't do your homework.

DABowers
DABowers

The problem with Jason's evaluations is that he forgets that first and foremost the smart phone is a phone. We have computers, cameras, video cameras, but for most of us now, the smart phone is our one and only personal phone. Therefore, the quality and coverage of the carrier should weigh in more than the applications and features. So, now that we have eliminated all but the Verizon smartphones . . .

thewolverene
thewolverene

iPhone 4 cannot be at the top. The Android phones are way better. I have used both the iPhone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy S (international). I would take the Galaxy S over the iPhone in a heartbeat. I don't understand how people like being shackled by Apple...

ben.meltzer
ben.meltzer

these must be top 10 for personal use because only the blackberry has any kind of security for real business use unless business no longer care about secure communications anymore

jjohnson24
jjohnson24

Man...Whenever I read these "Best Of" I think that Jason writes to just include 1 or 2 phones of each of the major carriers. Not really the best phones overall. IMO :)

BrianMWatson
BrianMWatson

I disagree with #1 & #2 rankings - they should be swapped. I don't find IOS any easier to use than Android (especially with the SenseUI), in some cases, it's harder. Overall, I'd call that a wash. I'd give iPhone 4 the nod - but only SLIGHTLY - in terms of responsiveness, polish, and apps. But, I give a huge nod to the EVO in terms of functionality - it simply does more than iPhone and in most cases it does it better. I'd also give HTC the nod for putting money where it matters more - in cameras and screen size, rather than outright resolution (Can the human eye even PERCEIVE the difference at that screen size??). I was a very happy iPhone user - until I got an EVO. There's simply no going back. I guess it all boils down to outright functionality mattering more to me than a little more polish and a few apps I don't really care about...

BoJohnson01
BoJohnson01

Life "unlocked" is great. Internationalize your perspective and dump the iPhone bias.

shallmann
shallmann

I'll take my Palm Pre Plus over ANY of these!

bretferris04
bretferris04

The HTC Desire is absolute crap and so is Android especially the latest version with all its bugs and hassles, and I haven't even dropped the thing yet.......I'm longing to reincarnate my HTC TyTN2 with Windows Mobile 6. !! Bret

itadmin
itadmin

Obviously you don't have the Nokia N8 in the US.

itadmin
itadmin

Obviously you don't have the Nokia N8 in the US!

fbandak
fbandak

despite all that i still love my Nokia expressmusic 5800 , it connects to wifi , runs most of the pouplar apps, connects to GPS and has free maps for the whole world with Free Navigation

Haqeem
Haqeem

As the fan of bb, I voted for torch

Daniel Breslauer
Daniel Breslauer

I wouldn't trade in my Nokia E72 for any of them. I don't see why the Nokia E72 (in the US: E73 Mode) shouldn't be on the list. I guess because these are all fun phones, the E72 is a bit more serious.

ctinco
ctinco

I'd put the HTC 4G on top of the iPhone. Just because it's not an iPhone. IMHO

etafner
etafner

Jason, not even an honorable mention to the N900? I know it was released in 2009 but back then was just in a few markets. Only this year it got widespread release. By the way, I see no mention to Nokia's phones at all. May this wasn't the year for Nokia? I don't have 10 smartphones to list, but I bet on the build quality of the iPhone 4, the HTC EVO 4G, Galaxy S (Nexus S?) and the N900. They are all quite phenomenal, each of them with different characteristics.

DNSB
DNSB

It appears the list in that article is mobile phones, not smart phones. There is a bit of a difference. Nokia makes a wide range of phones which are extremely popular outside of North America but their share of the smartphone market is shrinking rapidly from what I've seen posted on various sites.

pjboyles
pjboyles

And for me Verizon is a non starter. AT&T is not much better.

T3CHN0M4NC3R
T3CHN0M4NC3R

Simple. Marketing and Advertising. They are very scary.

ctrogers
ctrogers

I'm curious as you appear to be a great fan of the EVO, how often do you have to plug it in? My sister has one and (last I heard) she has problems with it lasting 12 hours per charge.

Boomertechhelp
Boomertechhelp

Am I the only one with a Palm Pre Plus? This is a GREAT phone! Wifi hotspot, multitask, synergy, more apps every day. I guess the next write up will come with Palm WebOS 2.

henrik
henrik

I loved my Nokia E71 when I had it, but no phone in the E-series can be considered a smart phone when compared to Android and Apple phones because of the outdated OS; Symbian S60.

Nsaf
Nsaf

"I don't see why the Nokia E72 (in the US: E73 Mode) shouldn't be on the list" I guess it should be on the list because you have one.

davidmaxwaterman+techrepublic
davidmaxwaterman+techrepublic

Apart from some people wanting 'serious' phones as you mention, even some of the latest phones are quite a bit of fun. I particularly like the C7, and the N8 has an amazing camera. I would have thought they would count for something - an honourable mention, at least.

RockerGeek!
RockerGeek!

I have a love/hate relationship w/adobe, but there's so much adobe flash stuff online that apple refuses to utilize that I could never use an iPhone. Also, AT&T is horrible. I used to work for them and I will never be a customer after seeing how other departments treated both customers and fellow employees

mzbcracker2
mzbcracker2

a month ago i found an article about most dangerous smartphones of 2010.among them i found best smartphones of 2010.in fact most of them have waves that are harmful and can cause cancer.after reading the article i include health issue in the list of my consideration for selecting a smart phone.you can see the report: http://www.ewg.org/cellphoneradiation/newecellphonesin2010

Niall Baird
Niall Baird

My wife and I have Nokia N97's, which I love, however my wife was using hers in the swimming pool on Xmas Eve, and unfortunately for Nokia, she found out that it doesn't work after you've taken it underwater. I wonder if I had've spent the $400+ (AUD) on an iPhone whether that would've worked underwater?

csalaski
csalaski

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 Not qualified as US only but worldwide by manufacturer and by OS. Since Samsung, LG, Motorola, and HTC all don't make IOS devices but do make Android in addition to other devices, I'm sure their combined sales dwarf Apple. Notice the note just below the title "Android Became the World's Third Most Popular Smartphone Operating System and Claimed Top Spot in the U.S " Symbian and RIM come in at first and second. Of course quarter 4 sales reports hasn't come out since we just got over the Christmas buying season. My son and several family members own Iphone4's which they love. So I get to try them out all the time. I love my EVO better and I do get a full days use and more out my stock battery. Even listened to internet radio while working last night from the phone using it's built in loudspeaker while connected to my office network via wifi. I did about 2 weeks research before I committed because it is a 2 year commitment if I don't want to pay full price for the phone. Jason's top ten android phone article and his review of the EVO swung me towards it, I was leaning towards either the DroidX or Iphone4 at the time. From those two articles you'd think he was sold on the EVO as being the best of the bunch. Got my EVO at a steal of a price, $149 after $50 instant discount, and they threw in an additional $100 walmart card so final price was . Yeah I went and got it online through Wal-Mart since everyone else did not want to go below $199 with contract. Though I had to wait about 4 extra days because they sold out of the units. Seems that they are selling like hotcakes and also AMOLED screens are in short supply.

TBaba
TBaba

I see no reason why the HTC HD2 isnt on this list. It is unarguably the best windows mobile 6.5 phone ever made. Though 6.5 has its issues it was and still is in use by many corporate bodies and as the best hardware able to run windows mobile 6.5 professional, the HD2 deserves to be here for 2010.

henrik
henrik

I'm pleased with my HTC Legend and it is much more "polished" and less "choppy" than the iPhone 4. ("polishness" and "choppiness" seems to be Jasons head criteria..?) As for ease of use and third party applications Android 2.2 is a sure winner over the impossible to use lock down iPhone OS. Top ten list FAIL.

ben
ben

Not to sound too much like a former commander and chief, I suppose it depends on how you define "best". For me the iPhone drops from #1 simply because it doesn't work for me - AT&T does not provide the coverage everywhere I need it, only Verizon can. Apple's decision to lock out a vast majority of the market is enough IMHO to drop them mid-list. My Droid is infinitely more useful where there is no AT&T signal. As for "ease of use" that's as subjective as can be. In my experience the touch screen takes considerable learning and is not as intuitive as dedicated, labeled keys. Since all these SPs rely on context sensitive controls, it's a push...but the tactile keyboard is a huge advantage during the training period, as it is much easier for the untrained. The constant assertion that Apple is more intuitive to use...nah, only if you're used to it. I will say that if you buy the Apple method, go all the way - my friends that have committed 100% to the iPhone, iPad and MacBook Air are very happy with the...much more so now than when they tried to mix and match with non-Apple stuff. And no SJ didn't pay me to say that...not yet anyway...

Tink!
Tink!

I got a Droid 2 this month. Being that it is still in the "new toy" stages of ownership with me, I'm loving it! My thumbs up to it are the full keyboard (I don't like touch screen only phones), and my awesome metallic blue case. :D Oh, and of course, the fact that I can now access TR with my phone!

dthomas
dthomas

While the iPhone should certainly be in the top 10, and even the top 5 is reasonable, but putting it at #1 just shows that the writer is an iPhone fanboy. There was nothing revolutionary about the iPhone4, and if it wasn't for most that fact that most Apple users are retarded diehards for any Apple products, the iPhone4 should have been a complete flop. Only Apple users would put up with the horrible ATT service with all iPhones, and antenna issues of the iPhone4. I certainly give credit to Apple for developing a phone that is still competitive with very little updating over the past couple of years, but its not #1 on my list for 2010.

pjboyles
pjboyles

This is so dependant on what a user has running. With minimal items running, low e-mail and text usage I can get 36 - 48 hours. With a modest services load, a large number of e-mails / texts and throwing in a few phone calls I can be lucky to get 12 hours. The one time I had 3+ hours of phone calls I didn't make 6. ;-) But I expect any smart phone with the same load will have similar battery life issues.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

It is still the most popular selling OS for Enterprise use, which is limited to basically WinMobile 6.5 and Palm.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Nokia has always dominated the mobile phone market, not by a close margin but my a MASSIVE margin. Reasons: Call quality, battery life, device quality and ruggedness, overall user experience, preferred carriers etc. Android came closer by gaining some market share in 2010 but still not catching up to Nokia (Symbian) and Blackberry (RIM), but Nokia's Symbian smartphones still held firm first place with 37% market share and over 10 million devices sold in Q3 2010. So yeah HE has one, I have one and the majority of the smartphone buyers for many years now have one too. Wake up, grab a little reality and you'll see it too.

DNSB
DNSB

Last time I was looking at the National Cancer Institute's web site, they had a study on studies about cellphones and cancer -- URL was http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones which seemed to boil down to that there was little to no statistical evidence of any correlation between cellphone use and cancers. Evidently some people love to panic when they hear the word radiation. As note the panic about high voltage power lines based on anecdotal evidence with little basis in scientific (i.e. repeatable) studies. Such as a British study where they found a small correlation between living close to power lines and childhood leukemia (around 1%). Another analysis of the data from that same study showed a 10% increase in childhood leukemia for children of middle class parents compared to upper class (richer, in other words) parents. So instead of worrying about power lines, worry about picking rich parents.

Derteufel
Derteufel

No real major changes and that antenna debacle would have sunk any other phone from #1.

jkiernan
jkiernan

I'm not an Apple fanboy. My career and livelihood are dependent upon several flavors of Windows clients and servers. My personal notebook runs Windows. I don't use OS X, and I have no intention of doing so. That being said, my iPhone is the most pleasing gizmo I've ever owned. I don't have issues with dropped calls using AT&T, but I'm not in NYC or San Francisco. On occasions when I call for assistance, I've had entirely professional and efficient communication with their customer support personnel. This is not the case with my Verizon wireless account. My bills are consistently incorrect, and their support staff is rude and unhelpful. It's a stark contrast to the service I get at AT&T.

stoneage
stoneage

........but know a good thing when I see it. The iPhone has it all over every smartphone out there. There are a few things here and there that are not as good as other phones, but all in all it's the best. As for AT&T, I get great service at a defined price (family plan), and don't have to worry about gotchas and add ons like some of my friends endure with Verizon and Sprint.

T3CHN0M4NC3R
T3CHN0M4NC3R

I agree with dthomas but I certainly wouldn't be bothered with the AT&T issue. But my point for not putting the iPhone #1 is because: 1) Some rules in the (official) Apple App Store kill real creativity or perhaps "better than Apple" revolutionaries. 2) Steve Jobs unwillingness to submit into universal compatibility instead tries too hard to "innovate" more Apple exclusive contents.(a theory based on his speech during the launch of iPhone4) 3) Apple's refusal to allow more customizations on the iPhone. For us real technologist or technology enthusiasts, we know iPhone's hardware ain't much of a "WOW" factor and is actually pretty similar to the Samsung Galaxy S which is 1 of iPhone's parts manufacturer. The need to JB an iPhone is a laughing stock. iPhone is simply overrated.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

By referring to people who prefer Apple's products as, "... most Apple users are retarded diehards..." you merely distinguish yourself as an anti-Apple zealot. While I agree that the iPhone 4 isn't necessarily a revolutionary device, quite honestly, none of the others are, either. However, the one thing the iPhone has over any of its competitors still is the overall quality of the device. Despite the advances that Android has made over the last two years, it's still essentially a beta-level OS with continuing issues that aren't expected to be resolved until 3.0 comes out supposedly in March. There's also the poor quality of some of the hardware itself; people complaining of flimsy keyboards and overall cheap 'feel' to the devices. Add to this the brand- or network-specific UIs and restrictions and the Android devices, at least for now, simply lack the overall quality of the iPhone, despite antennagate. As for AT&T, at one point I would have agreed with you; having used three different feature phones from AT&T I was beginning to look for a different provider, thinking it was network quality that was causing my problems. Each time, AT&T came through by replacing a dying phone with a new or rebuilt model which carried me through to the end of my contracts to that point. However, when I purchased an iPhone 3G, I discovered that it wasn't the network causing problems, but rather the poor quality phones I'd been using. I just finished a 2-year contract with the iPhone and never had to have any work done to it (i.e. replacements) and the only calls it ever dropped were due to things I was actively doing at the time, such as driving into a hollow where signal would be lost (other networks died in these same hollows) or when I went into a client's basement to work on her computer in another marginal area. In other words, where I live, AT&T is really the best network for coverage compared to the others and has proven its reliability to me after what seemed like questionable service with other phones. I've now purchased an iPhone 4, and the improvements are quite noticeable. Pictures taken with the new camera are significantly sharper and iOS 4 seems exceptionally well refined. There are 'features' added that I still don't like, such as the multitasking and cut&paste that so many of you demanded were absolutely necessary (and are frequently very annoying) but overall, I find the iPhone still the best quality device for the average consumer--its intended market.

ExploreMN
ExploreMN

First, I completely agree the iPhone should be in the top 5, but not #1 for the very reason you listed...the antenna issue is inexcusable and should have been fixed by Apple (and no, a free bumper case is NOT a fix). However, I disagree about the AT&T comment. This is an article about the top smartphones, not about the top service carriers. So even if AT&T sucks donkey balls, that isn't what the article is about.

MacNewton
MacNewton

Not only is the iPhone the best smartphone on the list, it also has the smartest user base. I did a small sampling of extended family, there families and even some of my clients.This is what I found. iPhone user's had more useful apps and used most on the functions of the phone. Mail, Photos, cameras, Video, Video editing, interfacing with their Mac's (some PC's) large database of contacts and backup of the iPhone. Most (about 95%) of the Other smartphone users did't have a clue on how to do anything with there smartphone. A little games, some contact list and maybe a free app or two. They just used them for taking photos and Messaging. Backup. Forget it. Not one of them had any real idea about backup. So as far as I can see, the new "SmartPhone" user (excluding iPhone users) are dumb. It's just a phone for them with a little texting on the side. " Hay Bro look I have a "Smartphone" Yo Yo

roy8820
roy8820

Seriously, how much of fanboys can the media be? Does Jobs send you guys free phones and buy you lunch or something? Look at what you wrote about the EVO Hiner. Then re-look at what you wrote about the iPhone. The EVO is a better phone. The iPhone is great, no doubt. It's even better for people who don't know how to use these things since it's sort of "idiot" proof. Is that why you guys like these phone; cause of their easiness? I was really hoping you wouldn't be an Apple sheep Jason and put the iPhone #1, but of course, like the other sheeple, that's exactly what you did. Article FAIL.

DNSB
DNSB

I do not sell smartphones or equivalents nor do I consult on them. RFPs for EDA mobile devices? Not all that many since most of my customer base is not involved in the manufacturing/delivery business. White collar types for the most part. Enterprise device manufacturers? About 6. Mostly due to research due to your rodomontade about such devices. 10 thousand devices? Wowsers. I guess that puts my WAN/MAN/LAN device sales into perspective. Oddly, though my experience has been that when it comes to the purchase of mobile devices, the IT departments have had input. Quite often that input was disregarded but it was requested. When one customer decided to go for an in-house Exchange/Blackberry email solution, the IT department was the driving force behind the change. Admittedly, only 6000 users and 20 sites but what the heck, their cheque cleared which makes them a good customer. BTW, the top 3 executives in that company have Blackberry smart phones and iPads. With the release of iOS 4 for the iPad, they meet the corporate requirement for on board encryption and remote manageability. As for the marketplace, we were discussing smart phones. Your knowledge of the smart phone market seems limited and your insistence that the sale of one Motorola ES400 as an example is somehow more important that the sales of a million Android phones is a touch risible. Your ignorance of the the iPhone's touch screen technology and your insistence that a resistive touch screen is superior to a capacitive touch screen under all circumstances are other examples of your tendency to placing both feet in your mouth. Using laptops as an example, I have specified ruggedized units when the customer needed them. This does not make me believe that they are somehow superior to other laptops for most uses, nor does it make me delude myself into believing that all laptops should be ruggedized units, nor does it make me believe that ruggedized units are, or even should be, the majority of the marketplace.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

Right--I'm the one who lacks reading comprehension. I responded to this in your 'later' posting higher in the thread. Again, I took exact quotes from your arguments. I can hardly wait for your response.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

"plug-in barcode scanners" USB bar code scanners have been available for ANY handheld device for years, LONG before the first iPhone. However that is NOT the same as the iPhone's imager at all. You can run an actual laser scanner on anything that doesn't make the devie a scanner. Of COURSE Apple uses iPhones for their own inventory management, they kinda have to. [i]Better than you think, since I used to be a purchasing agent...stay on top of asset management[/i] And that qualifies you to evaluate the market competitors or simply that you've used a bar code scanner? Re: Ruggedized device (EDA) competitors not offering iOS. [i]"Are you absolutely certain of that fact?[/i] Yes, because Apple's iPhone is not part of the market. In the US there are far fewer restrictions as to what devices can be used in Medical Fields, not so elsewhere. The BIG players with the greatest demand for the enterprise devices are; [b]Symbol/Motorola:[/b] http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/Mobile+Computers/Handheld+Computers (WinMobile or Palm) [b]Intermec:[/b] http://www.intermec.ca/products/computers/handheld_computers/index.aspx (WinMobile only) [b]Janam:[/b] http://www.janam.com/handheld-products.php (WinMobile or Palm) [b]Honeywell[/b] (formerly HHP/Hand Held Products) http://www.janam.com/handheld-products.php (WinMobile 6.5) Most of the above devices are intrinsically safe, IP64, they are ruggedized for those who move from the office to the warehouse (carpet to concrete devices) they offer strong wireless encrytion, they are available with a choice of touch screen types to suit specific applications, they have BUILT-IN scanners or high end imagers, they offer high capacity batteries, rechargable to last a whole shift of continued use, multiple battery chargers and countless other business features that iPhones can't even come close to. Features thta solve enterprise business demands that retail products of ANY sort just cannot offer. iPhone is NOT an enterprise device and has little use and offers nothing of any real tangible business value to the enterprise. The software isn't even compatible with most POS software! What if the client uses the most common Maitre'D software in their restaurant or bar for their POS network? NOPE No iPhones there either. How about the oil fields? America has lots of them! NOPE no iPhones there either, not instrinsically safe, battery can't be changed or charged independently. Why doesn't US Post, Purolator, FedEx use them, they are HEAVY mobile scanner users! Right, iPhones are crap for them too. How about those people issuing parking tickets with handhelds now? Nope, not rugged enough, no handwriting recognition for signatures. If you are going to even BEGIN comparing the capabilities of iPhone in that marketplace, you are truly haveing a laugh and just spewing rubbish for the sake of it. Mercedes salesmen using iPads to close sales...a car sale without a signature provided before even quoting let alone CLOSING a deal. Right! I've sold cars. I can display PDF and Word documents with my Symbian device too, I'm not about to consider it enterprise worthy though. You then blather on abpout IT as if I said that coporations don't have offices and IT departments or that they are not needed. Again, TRY TO REPLY TO COMMENTS I'VE ACTUALLY MADE! What I have said is that in the case of such rigged devices for c-Level employees, the IT department is usually just there to make it work on teh network and support it. It is a decision c-level employees make based on what they feel they want and need, IT is just there to support them. Now please, with your inifinite knowledge of supply chain management from a one time purchasers point of view, tell me how many companies you have helped solve mobility issues for where you have worked mainly with the IT department. Or just make up something else to reply to and pretend I said something else. I guess next thing you'll come up with is that iPhones are good RFID readers too, like many EDA's offer to businesses already. I didn't say Apple made bad computers (ie: Mac desktops)I said they make cheap iPhones. You then quoted me specifically talking about iPhones? You REALLLY aren't the swiftest of the lot, are you? Here you go again, this one's good! [i]*"-high-performance scanning and accurate reading of both poorly printed and damaged bar codes (iPhone = fail)" You lack access to available hardware that gives the iPhone that capability." Available hardware? We are talking specifically about mobile device needs for enterprise workers. So we both turn up at the CEO's door and present our mobile devices. You show him your iPad that is fragile, has a propietary operating system, a fixed battery that can't be replaced with a spare. You pull out your Metrologic Voyager and a USB dongle for your iPhone, click**click**click** TADA! Now you can scan bar code data too! You feel that even gets 5 minutes of the CEO's attention? I show him a device that is completely compatible with the company's server, legacy software, wireless network security demands, iSafe for military, oil& gas and other fields where non explosive devices are mandatory, fully sealed for use in extreme environments or where water damage is present, in fact they can be washed with caustic cleaners and medically sanitized for use throughout the ICU. MS Office is no pronblem at all, VoIP ties in with the company's MS based VoIP network, it can be dropped bumped and banged in the warehouse, never dies because you have high capacity batteries ready and waiting on the charger keeping shift employees productive 24/7, can track and update inventory across the supply chain worldwide through the new RFID network etc. [i]"The iPhone's digital touch interface has been demonstrated more sensitive and more accurate than any competing system"[/i] iPhone picked up a bankrupt company's Infrared technology that couldn't compete and went out of style some years ago due to inaccuracy. They added ANOTHER company's Multitouch chip to it and released it in restricted markets without paying for the license fees. Between current consumer smart phone device manufacturers, they may offer accuracy in areas of sliding, changing pages etc. However they don't offer stylus recognition because they CAN'T offer stylus recognition because IR Touch is NOT accurate enough. Again, we are talking about enterprise use. Your device has a tiny on screen keyboard, mine recognizes the CEO's handwriting and converts it to test for him. One can have numbers fudged into it (unless you wear gloves in the warehouse of course)with a good deal of mistakes. My device has a stylus for accurate written number recognition or a built in laser scanner to remove read input errors all together. How many iPhones do you hope to sell this guy? Company's have compared many devices in their purchasing and testing of the viability of mobile devices. Sometimes, the IT department pushes to have iPhones included in such testing too. This doesn't mean those organizations will adopt and stick with them, I've seen company's test all kinds of stuff and often not change anythign at all. They stay put until really excited and the ROI TCO adds up. Again, I have filled dozens and dozes of RFP's for government, the Olympics, US military, Canadian military, Education, Health Care, Oil and Gas and so on and so on, iPhones don't get consideration, if they are not clearly excluded from bids right up front. They stipulate, 'if you cannot meet the exacting standards your bid will not be accepted. They even get specific about product numbers being identicalto their request and iPhones are never part of it. When I said Symbian and Android or Rim were not playing catch up, you blurbled up: [i]Better look again. Whether it's RIM, Nokia or one of the Android models, all of them are producing at least a few all-screen models that were unheard of before the iPhone--and so far the iPhone is the most reliable and easiest to use of all of them.[/i] Er, yeah you gotta work on that reading comprehension thing again, seriously. The entire discussion to that point was about competitive smart phone market share. As far as market share is concerned (remember the topic), Rim, Android and Symbian are NOT playing catch up, they already LEAD in market share. Are you really that thick or are you just trolling now?! When I question the validity of your knowledge based on experience, you start by agreeing with me. "Perhaps"[/i] Well yes lets say definitely. [i]"but I have direct access to the inner workings of one of the largest banks in the world. I think I have a much broader view of the enterprise than you, localized in your remote province." [/i] Okay so now you prove you have no georgraphical knowledge as well as hideous reading comprehension skills. A product of the US educational system for all your felowman to cherish I'm sure. BC is not a remote province, Vancouver has largest and most diversified portin Canada, does more than $75 billion in trade with over 130 different economies annually. Port activities generate $10.5 billion in gross domestic product and $22 billion in economic output.Vancouver is also the headquarters of forest product and mining companies. In recent years, Vancouver has become an increasingly important centre for software development, biotechnology and a vibrant film industry. Regardless of the massive amount of products you rely on remote BC for, I sell to a global marketplace. I've sold devices to helicopter companies that are sprawled around the world, working from land, oil rigs, remote outposts etc.,telecom providers worldwide, hospitals in many countries, international governments, couriers, airports, restaurant chains, the world's largest wholesale department stores etc. Certainly not nearly as good of a global understanding of the mobile device industry as you would have as a LanAdmin in Maryland...sorry, with a friend who works for a "major corporation" in Vancouver. :D [i]"Now a debate about F15 avionics? It's all yours, not my field. Trying to distract me? Show me where I mentioned anything about F-15s in this thread. I at least quote you."[/i] No, there's no need to distract youm, you don't understand what you read to begin with; a distraction would most likely put you in a coma. Why would I say such a thing? Well it COULD be because you listed F-15 avionics as a key skillset in your profile, I quote: [i] I joined the Air Force, becoming one of the first enlistees to be trained exclusively for the avionics of the F-15 as it was coming into the inventory. I did well enough at my job to be 'invited' to become a trainer for the F-15/F-16 avionics systems.[/i] In which it was a very relevant comment and not distracting at all. What you don't even comprehend what you've said to qualify yourself? Now, how about a catchy headline to appear like you are correcting me, then correct me on something I haven't even said. It would be more fun if you were actually good at it, but you just aren't.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I live really close to a bricklayer too, that doesn't mean we have the same exposure to home automation systems. How many enterprise devices have you sold? How many enterprise RPF's for mobile devices do you fill each month/year/ever? How many enterprise devices/manufacturers do you even KNOW of? I guess that point is made then. I've sold more than ten thousand devices to Canada's telecom providers (who in turn sell them to their enterprise clients, not at their retail outlets) without dealing with LAN Administrators at all. I've worked with Weyerhauser, Crown Paper, several companies in the Ablerta Oil sands, the US military, Canadian school boards and countless others, I have yet to deal with a single LAN administrator nor are they included until the 11th hour when it comes to LAN connectivity during onsite testing. Beyond that, they have no input in any way So what do you feel should make us aware of the same marketplace since we live within 50kms of each other and yet work in entirely different fields with entirely different products? I would fill the needs of your company's president or controller perhaps but rarely deal with any IT staff at all. The IT department is generally just given the products to support and told to make them work on the company network AFTER the company has made a choice and invested in them.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Firstly, I haven't made a single case for android or Symbian for business use devices. In the USA, the top 4 Enterprise device manufacturers only offer WinMobile or Palm OS, Palm has remained a close second choice for US Enterprises. [b]Intermec[/b] - Winmobile 6.5 or Palm only [b]Motorola[/b]- WinMobile 6.5 or Palm [b]Janam[/b] - MAINLY Palm, some WinMobile 6.5 [b]Honeywell (aka HHP/Hand Held Products)[/b]- WinMobile 6.5 EDA = Enterprise Digital Assistant They don't even call them smartphones anymore as they constantly get confused with consumer products like iOS, Adnroid or Symbian devices that are NOT business devices. It's like using eMachines for business compared to professional desktops, sure some people do it, but not anyone with real business needs. People who work for a company and find that using an eMachine is ample, can hardly say they have the computing needs of an enterprise worker or power user.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Most of my clients won't use blackberry either, they have to replace too many broken devices or work around limited security or they are just not legally allowed sue ot certification requirements. WP7 doesn't even get into the mix yet, perhaps after a few more years of certification testing. Markets I deal with? Telecom providers/integrators (Bell, Telus etc) Canadian and US government agencies Logging firms Health care Petroleum and Gas Supply chain management devices and countless other vertical markets All require rugged, secure, intrinsically safe (or all three) which NO manufacturer meets with Android, RIM or iOS. Palm and WinMobile are still Motorola's top selling OS of choice for EDA's.

DNSB
DNSB

The odd part is that Oz-Media and myself live in the same part of Canada yet our experiences are so wildly different in terms of what we see being used in the corporate environment.

santeewelding
santeewelding

To keep all that straight? Don't you get to the point of your brain exploding?

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

enterprise is still mostly BlackBerry, with a little bit of Windows Mobile hanging on. Palm almost entirely disappeared with the the last round of Treos. The Palm Pre never really took off in the enterprise here. The other thing happening is that iPhone is making big strides (even in higher security industries such as financial services, health care, and government). Android is NOT getting major corporate adoption yet, except for employees bringing their own devices and connecting them via Exchange ActiveSync.

DNSB
DNSB

Here, I see mostly Blackberry for those who already have an investment in a Blackberry infrastructure. Otherwise, iPhones and Android devices seem to be the popular choices. A couple of locations have looked at WP7 devices but due to Microsoft's current lack in ActiveSync capabilities and on-board encryption, WP7 is not a good fit for corporate needs. WinMobile 6.5 is lost in the roundoff error while Palm has lost any corporate traction it once may have had.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I specifically referred to the change between Q3 2009 to Q3 2010. You are now reaching back theree years to justify your clouded vision. THREE YEARS? For mobile market share? You're kidding right? Mobile market share is barelu comparable quarterly due the the number of device changes, this isn't a new dektop OS, it's a mobile device. Three years is an eternity in this market, ANY new device introduced will break down market share, even a bad one. First you need to understand how a percentage works. There are only 100 percentage points available for everyone involved to share. Unless a new player obtains a 0% market share, ALL others will lose SOME market share to them. If you GUESS that a new and yet established player will take less than 25-30% initially, you definitely shouldn't be in marketing or business development. But where does that share come from? The others of course, and everyone expects it. Apple is DEFINITELY going to gain market share and EVERYONE knows it. Now to illustrate your brilliance with market understanding and predictions, please demonstrate how existing companies will NOT lose share when a new, viable player is introduced? That doesn't illustrate another company 'failing' or 'losing' in any way shape or form. Apple is not dominating teh market, they have just gained shares, as is completely expected. That first share is always going to be a big fast chunk that sees others lose share (duh!), but they have LONG LONG way to go in order to become the dominating force or prove another as failure in the industry. Give your head a shake! If you simply don't get markets, as you clearly don't, it's not a big deal, just go and help someone patch their server or wherever you real expertise is found.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I don't see how so many people here are completely devoid of the most basic market develpoment understanding. If I own 60% and you own 40% and a new player, with a solid reputation and following, is introduced, should we not EXPECT to lose a good 10% +? With three viable players, I cannot own 60% any more, YOU can't own 40% anymore, unless the new player is not valid and sells 0% of their devices. Of COURSE they will take a share, that's just competition and market development. BUT...it takes a LOT more effort for that company to move from an initial 20% adoption rate to beating out your share or my majority share to dominate as the market leader in an established marketplace. It's REALLY simple, basic marketing 101, the stuff you learn in Grade 8 economics. Not exactly a big head scratcher for anyone involved in the market and should be completely expected by any market competitor.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Apprently he's the only one with the correct facts that he found online. Thus everyone else is simply wrong. He STILL thinks he's right about something. What most are missing here is that a 25% market share is a fair number and to be expected from a company such as Apple, anything less just wouldn't be normal. In order to realize that market share of COURSE others will in turn LOSE market share, this doesn't mean people have stopped buying their devices and many customers initially lost will return while others are lost in future, that's how markets work. To suggest that it indicates that Apple will be the new dominant force is simply blind though. Moving from 20% to 25% takes a LOT of change, moving from 35% to 40% is much harder still. The market doesn't just bounce about like that, it takes years to establish majority market shares compared to establishing an initial adoption share.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

I've posted last year's Q3 numbers and this year's Canalys numbers just above in response to your "Facts are Facts" comment. Nokia's worldwide share is falling rapidly, down from over 60% three years ago this quarter. In the US, Android has a nearly 50% market according to Canalys while iOS and Apple have over 25%. That leaves barely 25% for RIM and WinMob (including WinPhone7.) With Symbian only holding 33% market world wide by that report that means Android and iOS have surged to a similar number or higher while Blackberry has begun slipping from its near-30% share last year. In other words, Symbian is down almost 50% from 3 years ago while Apple is up 1000% in the same time period. Even this last year, falling from 47% to 33% represents a 15% fall for Symbian itself. To put it bluntly, while the market for smart phones has doubled, Nokia's smart phone sales haven't increased at all, automatically halving its market share.

wdewey@cityofsalem.net
wdewey@cityofsalem.net

I'm sorry. Losing 10% of your market share IS HORRIFIC! That means that marketing, R$D and sales need to get on the ball to stem further losses. Bill

DNSB
DNSB

Dropping from 51% to 40% of the total market could be considered a drop of 11%. Alternately, you could say dropping from 51% to 40% is a drop of 21.6% (100-((40/51)*100)) in their market share or, to look worse, use (100-((51/40)*100)) for a -27.6% change. So stating they lost 11% of the total market or that their market share dropped by 21.6% are both completely correct.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Symbian had a 51% market share in the second quarter of last year, second quarter 2010 they had a 40% market share. This is nothing horrific at all, they still lead by miles and it's not like iOS is a close second. Of COURSE tehy will lose market share ot a new device, everyone does unless the new devices doesn't sell any units. Initially there is always an existing market drop when ANY new product is released, we can't just add another 14% to the percentage scale in order to accomodate newcomers. No matter how Apple's shares grew against Windows, they still didn't pass them. No matter how popular LInux is now, it still isn't the preferred OS of most people. A rise or slight drop in market share still doesn't mean that it will dominate in the future, once the levels get to a certain point they plateau. I don't see Apple all of a sudden tipping the scales, unless they or someone else does something completely different or designs a whole new device that is nothing like anything else around (at which time it will still take a dozen years to take over). If they proved that symbian was a health risk or that Nokia phones harm people, they aren't about to fall off the map anytime soon.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

"... Nokia's Symbian smartphones still held firm first place with 37% market share and over 10 million devices sold in Q3 2010." That 37% share is down from something like 64% last year demonstrating negative growth while both Android and iOS have shown positive growth over the same time period. Between the two of them, Android and iOS are selling something like 15 million units per month which adds up to 45 million units per quarter--more than 4x the sales overall based on the numbers you provided for Symbian. Android and iOS combined now carry roughly 50% of the smartphone market with Symbian, Blackberry and WinMob/WinPhone7 the other half. Nokia's domination is primarily due to its feature phone sales, which is still the single largest mobile phone market in the world.

DNSB
DNSB

The IR touch used by Apple is hideous, They don't offer a stylus because they CAN'T. Thus more user error due to a small on screen keyboard when compared to handwriting and drawing recognition of a stylus device with pint point accuracy. Apple bought out an old, bankrupt IR screen builder. That company failed to keep up with market demand for accuracy in touch, which is dominated by ELO/Tyco. They added ANOTHER company's multitouch chip set. It creates a fun user experience but is NOT accurate for data input. In fact, for numerical accuracy other devices offer scanners that will automatically enter bar codes so there is NO user error. Once again, the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad use a capacitive touch screen. Styli are available fron multiple sources. As for bar code scanners, several apps that use the on-board camera to read bar codes with no other hardware required. One called ,AFAIR, Red Laser is used along with a custom app to interface with their backend database server at a couple of local shops. One question out of a possibly morbid curiosity -- are you unable to spellcheck your posts?

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

"I know the manufacturer of the iPhone and iPad components, they are a cheap Chinese mfr that even small electronics builders don't deal with unless they have to." Very interesting since this same manufacturer is the same one that assembles Apple's desktops as well as nearly every other computer brand sold in America--FOXCONN. "The IR touch used by Apple is hideous, They don't offer a stylus because they CAN'T." What IR touch? Apple's touch is capacitive, not infrared and third-party styluses are out that are perfectly functional on the iPhone and iPad. "Apple IS trying to catch up, we were discussing market share, which is STILL dominated by Rim, Symbian, Android. THEY are not playing catch up to anyone." No, I said Apple is not trying to play catch up on technology, that other brands are scrambling to keep up with Apple in that manner. When discussing market share, they're scrambling like mad to keep Apple and the Android consortium from passing them. "Now a debate about F15 avionics? It's all yours, not my field. Trying to distract me? Show me where I mentioned anything about F-15s in this thread. I at least quote you." "No it's not a debate about avionics, LEARN TO READ ALREADY! I said I WOULDN'T debate avionics as you claim it is your field of experience. I quote from your profile: "I joined the Air Force, becoming one of the first enlistees to be trained exclusively for the avionics of the F-15 as it was coming into the inventory. I did well enough at my job to be 'invited' to become a trainer for the F-15/F-16 avionics systems." Purely a straw man argument, since I didn't bring the subject up in this conversation, you did. But since you do bring it up, for the US military to ask you to become an instructor, you have to be superior at your job to the point where they want you to teach how you're able to do that job so well. I'm sure the Canadian armed forces do much the same thing; they certainly wouldn't want an 'average joe' teaching advanced skills. " I was selling smart phones to businesses worldwide before most people knew what they were." Which is why I'm saying you're obsolete, since neither of the platforms you say are moving so well is holding up in the mobility market. Palm is almost dead--to the point that HP has bought them and apparently done almost nothing with it yet and Microsoft is replacing WinMob 6.5 with WinPhone7. If any of these devices are still moving (and yes, I did look at your links and the products listed) they are now primarily to replace inoperative devices where they already have an established base. You want me to believe that the iPhone flat can't do certain mobility tasks simply because certain hardware isn't built in, but it's damnably easy to create a docking unit that will give the iPhone those capabilities for less than the price of one using an obsolete OS. As I said, such devices are already in use in stores and hospitals in the US as well as legal and corporate offices. The day of the single-purpose tech device is fading. Microsoft is realizing it, HP is realizing it and Apple is demonstrating it. I think it's time you began to realize it too.

Ben Iron Damper
Ben Iron Damper

How ironic coming from you the KING of BS and misinformation. You're an idiot.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Is so blatant I wonder if he actually believes it himself or is just trying to look stupid trolling.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I just spent ages replying to all of your mindless drivel here proving all of your assertions the result of bad comprehension or just pure BS, it posted but disappeared. Maybe it was misposted in the thread. I don't care. you're just not worth the time or effort as you are blind to reality and have your mind made up, no matter if it is wrong. In short: iPhones DO NOT have a laser and cannot scan bar codes on their own. ANY handheld with USB can operate a scanner. Again do your homework. A purchasing agent for a factory with inventory management experience. Not qualified to speak on a global marketplace for high end mobile EDA's. Yes I am absolutely certain that the people that cater to those markets do NOT offerer iOS as an option, 100% certain. I provided links to all their websites and devices pages in my lost reply but you can Google it yourself. Palm and WinMobile 6.5, offered by those that iPhone doesn't even begin to compete with, Symbol/Motorola (mobile enterprise device division), Intermec, Janam, Honeywell (also HHP or HandHeld products)for example. Look them up, their devices STOMP on consumer "smart phones" and offer mainly WinMobile, with Symbol and Janam still moving a lot of Palm devices. No iPhones, NO androids, NO iPads, NO cheapo retail store products. I said IT staff have little to no input on the enterprise device decisions for their company, as I know they don't. I've closed million dollar deals with company's without the IT department even expecting the devices when they turned up. Your reply was some crap about IT departments being all over the world, how important IT departments are to corporations etc. Babble that has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I said, not even CLOSE to what I was saying. I then spoke specifically about Apple computers being quality products compared to cheap iPhones and you replied by quoting me talking about iPhones and iPads. I know the manufacturer of the iPhone and iPad components, they are a cheap Chinese mfr that even small electronics builders don't deal with unless they have to. Man you can't be that dense, you must just trolling and looking stupid in the process. I don't lack access to a scanner, OTHER DEVICES HAVE ONE BUILT IN, making them far more useful as mobile computers for those involved with asset and supply chain management. How many iPhones will you sell with a tethered Metrologic Voyager on it, when I turn up with a rigged device, a spare battery and a built-in scanner? Answer

santeewelding
santeewelding

Why attend to particulars when you can take [b]vulpine[/b] on by means of his self-satisfied and eternally vulnerable "falsity"? Unless you have no grasp of that, yourself; depending as you do on the J. Walter Thompson agency adage of marketing to emotion, rather than to that infinitely narrow slice of humanity who respond to logic. I don't think either of you do.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You must mean a Canadian, yeah we all know each other, even though we have 10% of your population, sprawled over a larger land mass. a ssomeone who has sold such devices for nearly a decade now, I've seen more TESTS than you can imagine, it does not equate to adoption.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

"An iPhone imager is NOT abar code scanner, not even close, and therefore absolutely userless in every way when it comes to POS and asset management systems." Interesting that you should say that since plug-in barcode scanners have been available for the iPhone practically from the first version and Apple is using them as POS and asset management tools in every single Apple Store around the world, not counting any other companies using them for similar purposes. "Maybe you need to study lasers, different bar codes and teh readers required to scan them, Apple doesn't even enter the playing field with their PDF imager. (no, don't bother going on about PDF files types, that's not the same thing either, do some homework on PDF barcodes instead.)" Invalid -- read my response above. " I doubt you, as with many people, don't even have a CLUE what POS and suply chain management actually entails, ESPECIALLY to the people who manage it, what software and device requriements are needed." Better than you think, since I used to be a purchasing agent for a factory and had to stay on top of inventory management for both production and maintenance. I received a 25% raise after only one year on the job because of how much money I saved the company compared to my predecessor. "Fact is, the device manufacturers that cater to such markets don't even OFFER iPhones as an option, iOS is simply not available with such devices. Are you absolutely certain of that fact? What of the doctors using iPhones with plug-in housings that read patients' vital stats wirelessly? What of lawyers using iPhones and iPads to carry and present their portfolios? What of salespeople using them to make presentations and close the sale? What of auto dealers using them to negotiate, document and close the sale to customers (Mercedes Benz and others)? What doesn't have the capabilities? "IT staff have little to no impact on the enterprise market at all actually, that's more toward the small and sometimes medium size business where one or two IT guys seem to run the show." You've GOT to be kidding! IT is the single largest and most expensive liability any corporation can have. They may not be the biggest in manpower as such, but an international company needs so many different IT branches over and above hardware maintenance and desktop repair it's silly! When you also figure that such companies can have hundreds of offices and each one needs at least some level of on-site IT, not counting coders and administrators it's obvious you really don't understand the corporate world. "If I sell 10 devices this year and own 100% of sales, YOu introduce a device and sell three of them, YOU now have a 30% market share and mine has fallen to 70%" Wrong! If you sell 10 devices and hold 100% of the market, then I come along and sell 3 similar devices while you still sell 10 you hold 77% of the market and I hold 23%--the market itself has grown by 30%. Just because I sold three doesn't mean you didn't sell your ten. "So if I am sellign just as many devices this year as I did last year, why would I be bothered by competition?" You just said what I did. Why is Nokia bothered by competition? Why? Because they're not growing with the market; they're standing still. That's almost suicide in todays' marketplace. "You are going on about computer quality, I have no disagreed...," No? How about, "Apple still doesn't even come close to challenging the real smartphone makers," and "I ... don't buy into releasing low quality featureless products at a premium price." I'd say you've disagreed more than once just in this series of comments. "As for iPhone quality, if it hasn't already broken most people will say it is excellent quality whether it is or not. Again, this is pure marketing at work, making people BELIEVE that their product is a quality product. You need to study sampling." That 80% customer satisfaction rating includes iPhones, by the way--still more than 20% better than almost every other brand. *"-high-performance scanning and accurate reading of both poorly printed and damaged bar codes (iPhone = fail)" You lack access to available hardware that gives the iPhone that capability. *"-analogue resistive touch interface for greater input accurcy (iPhone = fail)" The iPhone's digital touch interface has been demonstrated more sensitive and more accurate than any competing system. An article proving this was posted over a year ago by TechRepublic. "Don't begin to tell me what entreprise devices need, I've waded through the pages of requirements. Meanwhile, international banks and other major corporations around the world are testing and adopting the iPhone and the iPad for in-house use. Looks like you don't know everything about enterprise needs. "Apple is trying to keep up,..." Better look again. Whether it's RIM, Nokia or one of the Android models, all of them are producing at least a few all-screen models that were unheard of before the iPhone--and so far the iPhone is the most reliable and easiest to use of all of them. "As a private consultant to small businesses, you simply don't have the exposure required to make such firm assertions on a subject you clearly have limited knowledge of." Perhaps, but I have direct access to the inner workings of one of the largest banks in the world. I think I have a much broader view of the enterprise than you, localized in your remote province. I have no argument with where you live--one of my best friends lives and works for a major corporation there--but your own words prove that your knowledge of international enterprise operations is limited. "Now a debate about F15 avionics? It's all yours, not my field. Trying to distract me? Show me where I mentioned anything about F-15s in this thread. I at least quote you.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

... that statement is totally false. I might also note that a large percentage of the Fortune 500 are already testing and using iOS devices in their companies. Even some of the biggest banks in the world are using iOS devices and supporting customers' iOS devices, though I will agree that Android, as yet, is not included in these uses.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Then once you get back on track and recognize that I am speaking of business devices, you will then find that business devices include WinMobile 6.5 or Palm. No Symbian, No Android, No iOS. As described in my post above, consumer devices don't even begin to enter the EDA (enterprise market).

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

[i] I will argue that except for you and a very few other people, it seems the majority of technicians found Windows Mobile to be buggy at best and very difficult to use for any kind of generalized use--as long as they only used a single application for a given device, they worked fairly well, but they couldn't be used as a POS device, then an inventory counter, then an stocking tool and back to a POS without having issues that tended to slow productivity even compared to paper and pencil.[/i] the two largest telecom providers in Canada sell thousands of WinMobile and Palm devices each and every year to enterprises across teh country that DEMAND such systems over an above all other offerings. They are VERY popular for POS and asset management operations that iPhone can't even BEGIN to manage, iPhone doesn't even offer teh capability beyond a crappy little imager system. An iPhone imager is NOT abar code scanner, not even close, and therefore absolutely userless in every way when it comes to POS and asset management systems. Secondly, IT Staff have little to no input when it comes to said companies choosing devices for their carpet to concrete workforce. These needs are put forth by RPF;s that have stringent requirements, whene iPhone is often instantly disqualified right from teh get go, poor security, encryption, limited interface and radio options, NO laser approval at all, harder to integrate, no removable/rehcargable battery, not isafe certification and so on and so on. Apple is not even a consideration, their choices are primarilyy between Palm or WinMobile 6.5, FACT. [i]"Even Apple quit using WinMob devices as POS tools as soon as they got iOS to the point where the iPod touch could run powerful enough software for the purpose."[/i] Maybe you need to study lasers, different bar codes and teh readers required to scan them, Apple doesn't even enter the playing field with their PDF imager. (no, don't bother going on about PDF files types, that's not the same thing either, do some homework on PDF barcodes instead.) Again you continue to prattle on demonstrating your complete lack of understanding of market shares, new devices and hwo market share evens out. I won't even bother if you just parrot without recognizing you have missed the entire point being made. [i]First off, I find it difficult to believe any employer in Canada is giving iPhones away for free to their employees"[/i] Then be baffled. It's again a simple fact. I've been given one, it sat in my drawer for thre emonths until I gave it back because I couldn't use it for anything I need to do that I can with WinMobile in a Motorla/Symbol system. It doesn't synch with Symbol's secure access points due to a lack of encryption standards, can't scana real barcode, doesn't interface with the three most popular POS systems on the planet etc. I doubt you, as with many people, don't even have a CLUE what POS and suply chain management actually entails, ESPECIALLY to the people who manage it, what software and device requriements are needed. I don't give a crap who agrees with me or not, i don't care if someone in the seat beside me disagrees. Fact is, the device manufacturers that cater to such markets don't even OFFER iPhones as an option, iOS is simply not available with such devices. People use the terms 'enterprise' and 'business use' far too lightly these days. Anyone who wears a polo shirt and dockers to work thinks he's an enterprise worker. Checking email and using a basic CRM app is not exactly something taht requires a lot of cpability. IT staff have little to no impact on the enterprise market at all actually, that's more toward the small and sometimes medium size business where one or two IT guys seem to run the show. I work with companis with teams of c-level staff and not one that I've seen can or will use an iPhone for their business needs, perhaps for personal use but that's about it. You simply CANNOT make a case for a device that doesn't meet their most basic needs, no matter how many stats you throw out, if it doesn't meet their minimal requirements, they cannot use it, will not consider it and you will lose all future opportunities to bid. [i]That assumes a static market base where the total number of buyers doesn't change. [/i] Not at all, it is the most basic math there is. PERCENT, means per one hundred. Whether there is 5 or 5 million, 20% is STILL 20%. My point is, when a new device manufacturer offers a product the PERCENTAGE or market share others have MUST reduce if the new device sells ANY units at all. You can't have one company retain 40% another retain 60% and a new manufacturer gain 20%, that would equal 120%. It is IMPOSSIBLE, market "SHARE" is just that. If I sell 10 devices this year and own 100% of sales, YOu introduce a device and sell three of them, YOU now have a 30% market share and mine has fallen to 70%, that doesn't mean my device is no longer being used or that I have to worrk about going out of business, no matter how excited gaining market share gets you. [i] Nokia's total sales numbers hardly changed yet the market share plummeted[/i] Uh, yeah. Still don't get it do you? To go back to simpler terms again, I am STILL sellign 10 devices, you have sold three. Yet my market share has dropped. So if I am sellign just as many devices this year as I did last year, why would I be bothered by competition? When you sell 8 devices and I sell 2, there's reason for concern but that is SO FAR from being teh reality here that it isn't worth debating. You seem to be completely clueless when it comes to marketing, COMPLETELY clueless with regards to the most basic principals. You still prattle on as if you have a point though, which you do not as you clearly don't even understand what you are debating. [i]Apple's customer satisfaction ratings across the board for hardware and service have maintained a 10-20% lead over all of their competitors for years and has become the world's #3 computer seller in total numbers sold...[/i] blah blah blah, I haven't said otherwise. You are going on about computer quality, I have no disagreed and I have used a Mac as it served my needs better too. I have not questioned Apple's MAC computer quality. Where you are wrong is that reliability does NOT relate to phones as well. I know the factories in China that make their components, they are NOT build from quality parts as Mac computers are. iPods offer the lowest music quality available today, many people love them becuase they have no idea what else they coould have or have no real understanding of sound and music reproduction. iPods dummed down music listeners to the point that most can't tell the difference between high bitrate audio and a 128kbps MP3. FAR better devices are available to those who actually listen to music. Don't bother, I promise you that there's NOTHING you can teach me about audio or player quality. As for iPhone quality, if it hasn't already broken most people will say it is excellent quality whether it is or not. Again, this is pure marketing at work, making people BELIEVE that their product is a quality product. You need to study sampling. [i]Apple IS challenging the 'real' smartphone market [/i] No, Apple is changing the CONSUMER smartphone market. The Enterprise Digital Assistant (EDA) market doesn't even include i{Phone as a possibility. Common requirements that are requested for "REAL" smartphones (EDA's): -access to critical enterprise-class applications they need to complete any job (iPhone=fail) -MINIMUM IP-54 sealing, IP-64 preferred (iPhone=fail) -Four foot drops to concrete (iPhone = fail) -A wide range of operating temperatures, freezer to heater (iPhone=fail) -Minimum of RS309 and RS409 scanner (iPhone=fail) -high-performance scanning and accurate reading of both poorly printed and damaged bar codes (iPhone = fail) -Switchable 3G networking,flexibly to both GSM and CDMA networks (okay Apple is trying there but not even close to being competitive to existing EDA's) -Rechargable battery and higher capacity battery options(iPhone=fail) -Multiple battery charger (iPhone=fail) -analogue resistive touch interface for greater input accurcy (iPhone = fail) -Dual microphone support with noise cancellation (iPhone = fail) -Meet or exceee MIL-STD 810G specifications (iPhone=fail) - Advanced Data capture (iPhone=fail) -Enterprise Security EAP-TLS;TTLS (CHAP, MS-CHAP, MS-CHAPv2, PAP or MD5); PEAP (TLS, MSCHAPv2, EAP-GTC); LEAP,EAP-FAST (TLS, MS-CHAPv2, EAP-GTC) Again (iPhone = fail) Don't begin to tell me what entreprise devices need, I've waded through the pages of requirements. [i]Now they're having to scramble just to keep up. [/i] No, they are still dominating market share. Apple is trying to keep up, match then surpass the others. If others don't do somethign new and exciting, they will lose market share over time...again that is 'IF'.... Once they make a change and follow a trend, Apple lovers will simply say they are being copied, as always, just as Apple has copied everyone else for years now. Now a debate about F15 avionics? It's all yours, not my field. Without prejudice of any offense: As a private consultant to small businesses, you simply don't have the exposure required to make such firm assertions on a subject you clearly have limited knowledge of.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

[i]"You're still assuming that any percentage of iPhone buyers are automatically 'sheeple',[/i] No, I have not said that at all, please quote wuere I have before you make false assertions. [i]You seem to equate anybody that buys an Apple product as a 'sheeple' [/i] Again, I have bever said any such thing. I HAVE said that a portion of iPhone buyers are sheeple, it is a fact that many people love Apple so much that they will buy practically anything that Apple releases, we have had them say as much on TR for years. Apple fans wait and wait for the next great Apple release of almost anything. They buy multiple iPods when they are released, they have owned ever iPhone from rev 1 when they adopted it purepy because it was an Apple product running iOS, it is a FACT, I have NEVER, said that everyone that buys Apple is a 'sheeple' I ave in fact VERY clearly explained how a portion of Apple's adoption is from sheeple, increasing initial adoption rates of ANYTHING they release. If you are going to assert that I have said something, at least put forth some quotes to support your claims. If you are going to continue spewing complete rubbish that you make up in your wee mind, do so on your own as I don't have any interest in discussing what you THINK I said or what you WANT me to have said in order to support your BS. Have your fun, lie and BS all you like, I'm not interested in trying to have a discussion with you if you are just going to pretend you have a point by saying I have said what I haven't. [i]"By your own logic, that means not only have the 'sheeple' bred more 'sheeple,' but have convinced huge numbers of 'the masses' to become 'sheeple'."[/i] You seem to understand how viral marketing works, yet you don't even realize that you know it. While your understanding of markets is that of a grade school kid, you really are lost here, REALLY lost. You are only proving by your lack of being able to grasp basic market trends that you have little hope of nor interest in learning either.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

Is it because you're wrong and you know it? "Devices are lost to competitors who offer different devices, 99% of them are WinMbile 6.5 or Palm, BY CUSTOMER CHOICE." Then why, if 99% are WinMob and Palm, has WinMob's global market share fallen to less than 6%? Why has Palm's market fallen so low it doesn't even register on the market any more? 5 years ago you might have been right; 10 years ago you almost certainly were right; today? I don't think so. Not according to any report I've ever read in the last three years no matter how anti-Apple it was. "... mobile sales are an almost invisible/irrelevant portion of my income." Then how can you possibly speak with any authority on an issue you have no contact with. What I see is that your customer base is so narrow that new technologies are an afterthought, not a primary consideration. Your own words over numbers and platforms merely emphasizes my point that you're an obsolete consultant working with obsolete technologies. Your customers need to start moving into the modern world if they want to maintain any kind of standing in their market.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

"I've owned Symbian and even WinMobile phones for years now,..." I won't argue this. However, I will argue that except for you and a very few other people, it seems the majority of technicians found Windows Mobile to be buggy at best and very difficult to use for any kind of generalized use--as long as they only used a single application for a given device, they worked fairly well, but they couldn't be used as a POS device, then an inventory counter, then an stocking tool and back to a POS without having issues that tended to slow productivity even compared to paper and pencil. Many reviewers gave WinMob and it's associated devices poor marks for usability. Even Apple quit using WinMob devices as POS tools as soon as they got iOS to the point where the iPod touch could run powerful enough software for the purpose. WP7 appears to be a significant improvement over WinMob 6+, but we'll just have to wait and see how well it will be adopted. "... [Apple's] following is now a mix of those blinded by marketing, those assuming they are the most popular devices available, those who have few needs and like the OS and of course those that just HAVE to in order to fit iin with the anarchist, 'look I'm unique" crowd." You make assumptions about users, as I pointed out, calling all of the above 'sheeple'. In the face of the almost total lock on smart phones Nokia and RIM had, devices like the iPhone sold over a million in just over two months when it was introduced and now sells nearly ten times that many in the same amount of time. Yes, maybe, just maybe, that first million were, as you call them, 'sheeple'. If that's true, then their disease is catching because there are now well over 60 million iPhones in use around the world adding up to 17% of the world wide smart phone market with Android phones pulling very nearly the same numbers. If you were to assume that the market itself had remained stable, that would give Apple and Android each 35% of the former market and, as I clearly pointed out from one analyst, even now leaves Nokia's Symbian at only 33% of the current market. My point? Symbian is NOT seeing growth in sales and neither is RIM--all the growth is due to Apple and the Android phones--both types less complex and easier to use as described by nearly every current iPhone/Android user, even those who have jailbroken their iPhones. "I know plenty of people who have iPhones, mostly freebees from work with free, unlimted usage." First off, I find it difficult to believe any employer in Canada is giving iPhones away for free to their employees unless, contrary to the majority of reports I have read here in the States, they've decided its security and usability is equal to or superior to what they're already using--usually Blackberry, stateside. If your statement is true about iPhones given away, it gives the lie to your comments about nothing being as good as Symbian and Blackberry. If your statement is true about nothing being as good, it gives the lie to your statement about them being given away. You can't have it both ways. Add to this a comment by one of your fellow countrymen who claims to live reasonably close to you, "The odd part is that Oz-Media and myself live in the same part of Canada yet our experiences are so wildly different in terms of what we see being used in the corporate environment," and what happens is that the majority of the technical types here completely disagree with your viewpoint, even though that same majority is almost as anti-Apple as you. "And ocne again, of COURSE there is a drop is sales across the board, there HAS to be when a new player is in." That assumes a static market base where the total number of buyers doesn't change. In reality, that number does not remain static and again according the the reports I linked, Nokia's total sales numbers hardly changed yet the market share plummeted because the market itself--the number of buyers--effectively doubled and is still growing. If Nokia really looked at the numbers the way they should, then they'd be proud that they've not lost that much in raw profits or total units sold, only that they haven't grown as rapidly as the market itself is growing. Finally, to re-touch on one of your first complaints, "Just because you prefer Mac to PC, because you feel they are more reliable, it has no bearing on the phone market and that Apple still doesn't even come close to challenging the real smartphone makers and their operating systems." My 'feelings' about Apple's reliability is not just opinion and not just anecdotal; Apple's customer satisfaction ratings across the board for hardware and service have maintained a 10-20% lead over all of their competitors for years and has become the world's #3 computer seller in total numbers sold (not counting i-devices) over the likes of Toshiba and Acer despite their massive jump in market share caused by netbooks. That reliability does extend to phones as well, since nearly every review that compares the iPhone to any other similar device notes that fit, finish and stability land solidly in the iPhone's corner even when the other device is given superior marks for features or 'openness.' Even Consumer Reports gave the iPhone 4 a superior rating by almost 5 points over all other smart phones in July even as they refused to give it a 'Recommended' rating for the antenna issue. Apple IS challenging the 'real' smartphone market and is forcing the competition to adapt or get left behind. Nokia and RIM rested on their laurels too long, not believing that the iPhone could do half of what Apple claimed for it. Now they're having to scramble just to keep up.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

You're still assuming that any percentage of iPhone buyers are automatically 'sheeple', a dangerous assumption on your part. You seem to equate anybody that buys an Apple product as a 'sheeple' despite the fact that more people are buying Apple products now than any time in the past. Only 15 years ago, Apple only sold a total of 700,000 computers a year when, aside from the Newton PDA, computers were all they sold. Now they're selling over 100 million computers, and tens of millions of the iPads, iPhones and iPods each over the course of any single year. By your own logic, that means not only have the 'sheeple' bred more 'sheeple,' but have convinced huge numbers of 'the masses' to become 'sheeple'. Now do you see where your logic is failing?

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

"Why? Because his living depends on customers being dependent on his skills, and Android and iOS don't fall in his skill set." Wrong. I don't rely on mobile devices to make a living at all. Want Android or iOS? No problem I can get you whatever you need and it makes no difference to me at all. Have I lost devices to teh competition? Yes. Were they lost to iPhone competition? No, not once, I can get you any flavour you wish. Devices are lost to competitors who offer different devices, 99% of them are WinMbile 6.5 or Palm, BY CUSTOMER CHOICE. [i]"At least, that's the way I see it."[/i] Well, then you see (guessed) it wrong and that's not my guess, it's a simple fact as I know it and don't presume it. You made a false assumption, end of. [i]When you're hyper-trained to one set of tools, finding out that your tools are obsolete makes you obsolete. [/i] Very true but again it does not apply as you wish it too and is simply false as used in your last statement. I haev all the tools and avery big tool box, mobile sales are an almost invisible/irrelevant portion of my income. I would rather not sell a single mobile device again but I must, as I work to help new and old businesses develop, with a focus on their productivity and efficiency, and I am called upon by many for mobile solutions as part of that service. Thankfully, they never want iPhones in the mix though.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

If even 40% of Apple's sales were to Apple Sheeple.then their actual adoption rate would be 60% of your stated figures, which is hardly an indication of adoption by the masses. Even if they held a 25% market share, and half of them are 'sheeple' then their real market penetration is not exactly dominating the masses at all. I know plenty of people who have iPhones, mostly freebees from work with free, unlimted usage. Not one of them, most of whom veterans in Telecom, can give you a valid reason they would buy one over another device. Most of them have other, preferred devices for personal too.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Your worldwide stats for Q3 2009 and mine are almost the same, what are you tryiong to propose correcting. 43% is the more commonly found stat for Q3 09 ,compare that to Q3 2010 ans you'll see that mu figures are very accurate. As for the US market, it barely counts when looking at global adoption rates, US market will always follow trends and is as skewed as their music and media sales stats, again when compared globally. And ocne again, of COURSE there is a drop is sales across the board, there HAS to be when a new player is in. Did you expect Apple to take a 1& market share and not see ANY change in other device sales? Of course not! But moving from even 30% share to dominating with a 58% market share is a HUGE feat compared to gaining an initial 25-30%.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

The touch interface is growing, as evidenced by iOS, Android and even Palm's WebOS and RIM's new Blackberry devices. HP has been offering touch-screen computers for a few years now. The technology is changing to a new paradigm. Keep up or get left behind.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

--and he's not willing to admit it. Why? Because his living depends on customers being dependent on his skills, and Android and iOS don't fall in his skill set. He's got to convince someone that he's right just to get new customers to replace the ones he's lost to his competition. At least, that's the way I see it. When you're hyper-trained to one set of tools, finding out that your tools are obsolete makes you obsolete.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

How is that possible when iPhones hold 17% of the worldwide market and almost 25% of the US market? Are you telling me that 17% of the people in the world are Apple "sheeple"? Are you telling me 25% of the people in the US are Apple "sheeple"? Your logic fails on too many levels, OZ. Especially when facts are brought into the question.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

Q3 2007 Symbian 68.1% RIM 10.6% iPhone 3.2% WinMob 12.2% Q3 2008 Symbian 46.6% RIM 15.2% iPhone 17.3% WinMob 13.6% Q3 2009 Symbian 46% RIM 21% iPhone 18% WinMob 8.8% Android 3.5% http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/03/canalys_q3_2009_iphone_rim_taking_over_smartphone_market.html "Apple takes the lead in the US smart phone market with a 26% share" "- With a 33% share, Nokia is still the leading vendor worldwide, but Android-based smart phones grab a quarter of the market" http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010111.html What was that about lagging behind others? Both RIM and Nokia are falling in the smart phone market to Android and iOS. Facts are facts.

DNSB
DNSB

Unfortunately, you seem to believe that repeating your opinions ad nauseum somehow converts them into facts. You may believe that there are no Apple products that are superior to other products but that does not make that a fact. You appear believe that Apple's OS X is an inferior product to Microsoft's Windows 7. You never seem to get around to providing any evidence to back that opinion -- that you hold an opinion that the Microsoft GUI is superior to the Apple GUI does make it a fact. Where is the quantifiable data to show that superiority? A post with items such as it takes 17% fewer mouse clicks to complete a common set of tasks using Windows 7 compared to OS X with a list of the tasks would be factual. A comparison of Windows, OS X and Linux under similar task loading would be factual showing which handle heavy loads better would be factual. A statement that you find Windows 7 to be prettier is not a fact, it's an opinion with no visible means of support.

MacNewton
MacNewton

Can't you make up your mind can you! You can't possible own a "SmartPhone" You need money to own one, Anyone that take the time will realize that you're only on this blog to flame people, not to be to hard on you raym44 but it's you who can't understand the real facts about Apple & its hard working user base. Yes, I do have clients like you, WinDos lovers that spend all their time complaining about everything. I just charge more for my time. Have a good day

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I do have the time to bang on about it, over and over again, just as everyone keeps banging on about iPhone. If it's so clear, then we would not read what we do here. The purpose of the discussion is to air views on the original article and discuss our feelings on it and the comments that follow. If you already know what I am going to say and you don't want to read it, get your manual out and learn about clicking links. You'll find that it is actually a conscious action that you can gain control of yourself. Once you have mastered the technique of clicking links and forum surfing, you'll learn how to avoid reading what you don't want to read. I have never said Apple LOST anything, you are free to provide links to where I have though, if you would like to quote me. (damn, MORE clicking!!!) You only hurt your case when you repeat or defend fictional comments. Repeating facts is simply repeating facts, in order to put forth one's case. The most stable assertion is in the presentation of irrefutable facts when opposed to marketing BS and parroting beliefs. Supporting BS that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny is where you hurt your case. Now, go look up that clicking thing and save yourself the trouble next time.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

FACT: Symbian is down from 40% to 37%Q3. Apple is far behind RIM Android and Symbian. FACT: Even after several releases, years of marketing and everything else they put into selling devices, they still lag behind others. I have enterprise devices and personal devices too, no iOS and no iPhone though for either. 5, 10, 20 years from now is completely unpredictable, who knows what will come out or take over from smartphones all together? I digress, if speculation based on market trend offers any foresight, which I agree it really doesn't, then Apple will not see the lead in devices sales any time soon.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

It is true that Apple is excellent at marketing. Initially it was like the LInux trend, people chose Mac to be the odd ones out, elitist etc. As someone that does a heap of graphics, audio mixing and video rendering/editing, I agree wholly that MAC's were definitely superior for those tasks, but I preferred the Windows GUI and integration better. With Win7, they have hit the mark. It is fast, allocates and manages processes and tasks very resourcefully, keeps the hard drive and file system in great shape and offers some excellent features. As for Apple (what I call) iToys, I have seen, owned, used and sold far better devices for years already and don't buy into releasing low quality featureless products at a premium price. Their marketing is flawless, their following is now a mix of those blinded by marketing, those assuming they are the most popular devices available, those who have few needs and like the OS and of course those that just HAVE to in order to fit iin with the anarchist, 'look I'm unique" crowd. People spew the same old BS, just like those who [i]still[/i] say how buggy Windows is, how insecure etc. In reality it has improved immensely over the years, from where I also agree it was hideously flawed. To each his own but nobody's about to convince me that they are better than others, are less restrictive, less expensive, more useful or anything else.

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

Symbian and RIM smart phones were essentially extensions of the standalone PDA that just added a phone to the device. These smart phones were great for corporate use, but quite honestly they were too difficult for the average consumer, which is exactly why they weren't selling to consumers. WinMobile was hardly any better because, as usual, Microsoft tried to make a mobility device look and work so much like Windows itself that at best it served a niche market that was far more corporate oriented than consumer oriented. It is an established fact that when Apple announced the iPhone in January of '07, RIM believed it impossible that anybody could make a full-screen smart phone with any kind of decent battery life and essentially ignored the new device until after it hit the market and they discovered how Apple had leapfrogged them. Since then RIM has lost market share to less than 25%, WinMob is down to something like 7% and even Nokia's Symbian is down from a high of over 65% to something like 37%. How can you say Apple (and Android) can't possibly challenge the "real smartphone makers and their operating systems"? It looks to me like the challenge is real and the former leaders are struggling just to stem the tide against them. Here's the thing: Yes, the Blackberry and Symbian are better established in the corporate world; but a little research finds that executives may use Blackberry for work but an iPhone or Android for personal use. Why? Simply put, they're easier to use than WinMob, Blackberry or Symbian. Corporate efficiency is about the least effort for the most productivity; unfortunately, IT is the least efficient and most expensive single division in any corporate enterprise. Better quality computers and communications could offer less technical overhead and reduce costs significantly. The problem is, the reduced cost would come in the form of fewer technicians needed in IT.

T3CHN0M4NC3R
T3CHN0M4NC3R

Problem is, there are 2 many sheeple and Apple marketing strategy has been really successful.

T3CHN0M4NC3R
T3CHN0M4NC3R

Your sampling is funny. Go do some more on the Apple App Store and see the Games:Productive apps ratio. Which smartphone doesn't have Mail, Photos, cameras & interfacing with their computers? And why the large iPhone contacts backup? It's a hazardous job to transfer iPhone contacts that's why.

GoodOh
GoodOh

If the IPhone is being outsold in the marketplace then that's the end of the story isn't it? The masses aren't buying it so they agree with you that the other options are better. So are the masses 'sheep' for buying the other options? No it seems they are only sheep if they join the majority in buying Apple products (which is not the case in your argument). If they join the majority in buying other devices they are not sheep. All very difficult to stitch together as a coherent argument isn't it? If the marketplace has spoken does anyone really need you kicking the loser (Apple) when they are down? How does that help anyone? Jason gives his opinion, you disagree. You even claim to have hard facts to show that the majority of buyers agree with you. Point made. End of. How many times do you need to make the same point? And why would you bother? According to you the masses have spoken up in agreeing that the other options are better. Do you really have so much free time that you can bang on year after year on every single post about the iPhone with the same boring stuff? You do know you hurt your argument by doing so don't you? According to you Apple has lost so you should feel good that you got it right and a few smug "I told you so" posts could suffice. According to you, you won the argument. So keeping on fighting so hard looks bad. Winners don't give of the smell of desperation that lingers over your postings. Anyway, something to think about next time the urge to type hits you. "Will I help my case by posting again?".

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

"...wants it to work without having to waste time and money fixing it all the time" I've owned Symbian and even WinMobile phones for years now, I haven't spent one MINUTE making them work again, as they haven't failed. You then chime in about your PC repair experiences, as if it relates to smartphones too. Just because you prefer Mac to PC, because you feel they are more reliable, it has no bearing on the phone market and that Apple still doesn't even come close to challenging the real smartphone makers and their operating systems.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

That's why other phones OS's are selling more than Apple I guess, there really are more intuuitive and easier to use phones, that actually offer call quality, greater flexibility and durabililty too. iPhones are being gobbled up by Apple sheeple but not the masses.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

but there IS an 'i' in their, not to be confused with 'there'. Spelling means f-all, but proper use of a word is probably somewhat useful to people.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I don't know if you've looked at the SMartPhone market share but iOS/Apple is not even a top 3 contender. You can "believe" what you wish, you can sample yoru family and friends but when it comes down to it, they sit behind Android, RIM and the monster Nokia (symbian) with a HUGE margin to make up before they'll even be in the running for top smartphone.

ExploreMN
ExploreMN

First off, in research you took what is called a "sample of convenience" which is generally considered the worst kind of sample next to a biased sample which, in some ways, your sample can fall into that category as well. Why? Well, you polled family and, as family, it is reasonable to assume they support each others activities. For example, if the family really enjoys photos, they would all reinforce using the camera on their phones, etc. So, your sample fails...miserably. Next, you make an assumption of intelligence based on device usage. If I take someone who has an IQ of 90 and teach them how to use every option on an iPhone and they, in turn, use every option, how does that change the fact their IQ is still 90? They don't suddenly gain 20 IQ points because they are using a simple device. So, your assumption of intelligence fails. This leads to the third flaw. You generalize this to the ENTIRE population by saying that iPhone users are more intelligent because they use all the features of their phone. As noted, intelligence and feature usage do not correlate. So your hypothesis also fails. In summary: failed sample, failed assumptions, failed hypothesis. Oh, and I use every feature on my Android phone. Multiple e-mails, calendars, remote control of computers, eBooks, music, movies, photos, light word processing, games, news and RSS feed reading, messaging, shopping, managing stock portfolios, and yes...I backup all my data through Titanium backup...but everything is also synced with Google, so it doesn't matter if I switch phones. :-)

Vulpinemac
Vulpinemac

"Apple products are popular because they're idiot proof..." You just hit the nail on the head. Apple's devices are built for the non-techie--the person who simply wants it to work without having to waste time and money fixing it all the time. Honestly, after 30 years in the technology business, I'm tired and just want to have some fun. I want computers that work without having to spend time tweaking and cleaning on a regular basis. I want a phone that works right without having to put up with arbitrary reboots and freaky signal/app issues. I want a media player that's easy to load and navigate without having to learn a new 'language' for each new model. And despite being a writer, I want my tablet to be easy to carry and use wherever I am, even when I don't have a place to set it down. I might not be able to write a novel without tying a bluetooth keyboard to it, but taking notes, updating databases and proofing photography are simple and quick, letting me do what I need, when I need it, without forcing me to sit down to do it. Yes, the average consumer is stupid compared to techies. But with Apple's products, they no longer need to rely on you to keep their devices working. Apple's strength is your weakness.

apocballer
apocballer

So a tech product that has intuitive software and hardware and is easy to use is somehow a bad thing? Wow. Those that are slinging insults towards end users for investing in something easy to use really end up making themselves look stupid.

raym444
raym444

And maybe you should learn how to write before you start typing your standard "Apple is great" drivel. Last time I checked, there was no "i" in versus. But hey, at least you had spell checking to check the rest of the document, too bad the abbreviation "vs" isn't included in your standard spell checker. Apparently, all of your friends and family are as stupid as you are. And clients? Yeah right, like you're smart enough to even have a job, much less run a company. Apple products are popular because they're idiot proof and nothing else. Any moron can use an Apple product, the rest of us are smart enough to learn how to use technology and make up our own mind instead of letting Apple tell us what to buy.

edd.knowles
edd.knowles

The HTC UI sense is really nice -- especially now that the EVO has Android 2.2 (Froyo). Also, unlike the UI on the iPhone, it's extremely customizable. You can even have your EVO look and feel just like an iPhone if you want. The EVO has 7 home screens and supports widgets and folders. My EVO came with a home screen customized with widgets to control WiFi, BlueTooth, GPS, and 4G -- which helps manage battery life. I purchased a 3500mh battery for $22.00 which gives the EVO fantastic battery life (and considering I got my EVO for $150.00, this was still cheaper than the iPhone or EPIC 4G). After solving the battery problem, this is easily the best smartphone available -- the only complaint one could have is that it's also the biggest, smartphone on the market (but I love the large screen!!).

roy8820
roy8820

There are ways to get her battery to last a lot longer. I don't have a choppy interface. Neither does anyone else I know... But I agree the battery should be better. I like the iPhone UI. I'm just tired of the media giving so much attention to the iPhone and making it #1 because it was first. That was a few years ago. I remember when the EVO came out and it was the first phone with 4G and many other firsts and Yahoo did a little write up on it. The iPhone 4 comes out a couple weeks later and Yahoo does a huge write up, front page material! Anyway, tell your sister to go to the Sprint community forums and there are easy posts on how to get better battery use. Hopefully the MR they released recently improves on the battery life as well.

roy8820
roy8820

Wow, thanks. No kidding! Have you used an Android phone yet? I have used the iPhone. They are both easy to use. Have you really had difficulty using a phone? If so, you wouldn't even make it to med school. You obviously missed my point. The iPhone UI is very simple, which IS nice. It was the first smart phone to come out and be so easy for the non-tech but that's one of the main reasons it keeps it's high ranking with people is because it was first. Newer and BETTER phones have come out since. I like the iPhone and if it was on Sprint when it first came out, I would have gotten one in a heartbeat. But that doesn't mean phones like the EVO aren't better. If the iPhone came to Sprint now, I would choose the EVO. Unless you like being married to a monopoly like Apple, open source is the way to go if you have a good phone to go with it. HTC, Samsung and Motorola are making great phones.

ExploreMN
ExploreMN

Again, as I wrote just a second ago, I agree that the iPhone should not be #1, but you comment about the ease of use being a factor...yeah, it kind of is. If you are rating a smartphone, one factor to consider is how easy it is to use. No one wants to fight with their phone or get a PhD in the phones operating system just to use it no matter how amazing it is.

ctrogers
ctrogers

I'll admit that I actually have an iPhone 4, and my sister has an EVO 4G. I don't really care about one-upping other phones, but with the EVO in mind, considering that her phone seems to always have a dead or dieing battery, and how choppy the interface is compared to the iPhone, the end-user experience could stand a bit of improvement. I will admit that her ability to run more apps without apple's censorship, use her phone as a free wifi access point, etc are pretty nice trade-offs however.

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