Admin with a criminal background

And you, sir, will kindly do us the favor of keeping your ill reasoned tripe from our view as well.

The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

Surviving in the straight world is difficult enough for those of us who do not carry a label that allows others to exercise their fear or their prejudices. As one who spent a lot of time on the hiring side I'd like to suggest the following:
1. Don't try to hide your background. If you come in and it's discovered later you will lose all of the trust that you've managed to accumulate.
2. HR departments are risk averse. You will have to develop relationships with those who are initiating the hiring. You already have credibility with your current employer. Use it.
3. Other people in the organization will try to use their knowledge of your background to put you at a disadvantage. You are going to have to be smarter, faster, cleaner, and more dependable than they are.
4. If you can, apply to have your criminal record expunged.
5. Never betray a trust.
6. I wish you the best and hope that you can be successful. You have my admiration for taking the hard way out.

Gralfus. This is my openion if you have done your time and or trying to do what is right I'm sure someone will hire you. The need is out their and I think that a company that is looking for someone that can do the job, will give you a chance to see if you are right for them.
A mans pass means a lot when you are looking for work, but if you can do the job within the 90 day try out then I'm sure you can fit right in. So good luck and don't give up and keep up the good work you are doing.

Good luck to you my friend, i don't know how it works in the USA but in AUS it would only be because of fraud you wouldn't get a job. If you're honest at the interview it could help.Dont be ashamed of your past, we have all made mistakes.And don't listen to 'Perfect Citizens'who say you should still be in,they probable call themselves good christians as well.

It is ppl like you that stop good ppl who have made a mistake( and admitted to it, and paid for it)from making a contribution to society. I would love to see what your past hides, I bet there is some nasty stuff there. Ever heard the quote 'Some of the nicest blokes i have ever met were murderers', well i know for a fact that this is true. Open your mind or crawl back under your rock. Either way leave ppl like sidvail who are open and honest alone.

I've been reading these posts and would like to tell you about the real world.

My name is Dave; I have a Masters Degree in Computer Science and have just about every certification you can get. I also had a Top Secret Clearance and worked 16 years for the US Government in an extremely high security position. At the end of my employment, my salary was over 160,000.00 a year.

6 years ago, my wife and I were at a club dancing and having a few drinks; a drunken a-hole approached my wife and asked her to dance. She politely turned him down, telling him she was married and her husband wouldn't approve.

He proceeded to rant on abought how much better he was and said he would "kick my ass all the way to California" (We lived in DC then). While this was going on, I was up at the bar getting us another drink, it was just about this time that I got back, not knowing what was going on, I asked my wife if this guy was bothering her. All of a sudden, out of the blue, this jerk took a swing at me. At this point, I defended myself and swung back, forgetting that I had a glass in my hand. This caused as you might have guessed, some pretty bad damage to the guy's face (48 stitches and the loss of his right eye, I hit him only once). The next thing I new, bouncers were restraining both of us and the police and EMS arrived within a few minutes. I was arrested on the spot and charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature, and assault of a police officer (I had no clue he was a cop, he was in plain clothes and extremely drunk). After spending over 15,000.00 on Lawyers, I was convicted of assault and battery on a police officer and sentenced to 5 years in prison.

I served 28 months in a maximum security prison (because it was a violent crime). While I was in prison, my family lost the house that we'd had for over 10 years, and lived in a trailer home, they had to survive on food stamps and the kindness of friends and family. I am still on parole to this day, But I still have my family.

Now I work on cars as a mechanic and last year I made 28,000.00, working 6 days a week, 9 ? hours a day (remember, I had a very nice job with the government). I?ve since started my own Internet and Consulting Business about a year and a half ago, and it?s barely making money, but it is growing.

I have been trying to get a decent job in the IT field ever since I got out of prison and no one, and I mean no one will even consider me for any position because of my conviction. No one will even listen to my side of it, never mind that there were over 50 witnesses to the "crime". The fact is that I was convicted of a violent crime and that's all they even care about.

So, back to you, if you have what you consider a good job where you are now, I?d strongly advise you to stay there for now, but go back to school and try to get at the very least a Bachelor Degree in Computer Science. Just getting certified in anything doesn?t mean squat. The college education is what will get you in the door. Unfortunately, an Associate Degree won?t get you in the money. Most business?s who hire IT?s are looking for more education, and the job market is pure hell right now, 5 years from now maybe it will be in better shape, and then you?ll be ready for it.

Me, sooner or later, I?m bound to run into the right person or company, and I will get a decent job again, and I will start at the bottom and work my way up. They can?t keep me down forever.

Still don't think you got the message. This guy did not go to prison for 19 years for purse stealing. He cold bloodily took someone?s life. Luckily for you it was not your kin, so nothing to worry about eh! Hire him...do yourself a favor. Money talks, Bullshit walks.

Just three words,

No F*****g Way

I think this will be my last response (reply). This guy thinks we are all jerks, and mustered up about 75% of jerks (just read their responses). You guys keep on playing his game.

Come on now....19 years in prison for murder....What debt did he pay to society. Ask the victims kin if they have been vindicated. What a hoax!!!!!!!

He is full of it. I spent 4 stints in Alaska. 6 months you are in darkness what a place. Sure makes you think up some weird sh*t.

deepsand,

Your handle represents your responses. "Head deep in the sand" Get your head out of your a*s.

Take some kind advice when it's offered. she was not "espoucing the greatness" of her beleifs. she was offering the help you claim not to have found! I live with the cosequences of my actions, as do we all.
You seem to have done okay, if you're an it manager???
its not our fault you stole a car. Its nobody's fault but my own I have a drug conviction. I manage 1 pc in a church running win95 - we live with our choices :)

Only white collar criminals are hired in this country. There is no forgivness or understanding for the majority of ex-cons & WE are stigmatised & disadvantaged for the rest of our lives. People who commit criminal acts for personal gain, especially acts of fraud, are treated better than those who act from passion or a need to protect themselves or their own. The only jobs we are usualy allowed access to are menial & low paid, regardless of circumstances or abilities.

Thanks for judging us. you are the kind of person we are talking about, what gives you the wisdom to say someone should live or die (especially when you don't know the circumstances.)
By the way have you ever sqashed a bug, run over a cat...? maybe you should consider your own life not that of others?

Sidvail,

It sounds like you've already worked out most of the moral issues regarding your criminal record and have worked hard at the practical side of things to get where you are.

Why stop now ?

If you have the talent and ability, you should get the job. Any potential employer who won't give you a position because of your past is simply being judgemental. They would be the one with the problem, not you.

Good luck.

You can look forward to being discriminated against. In Ten years I never made more then ten dollars an hour, unless I was installing a network. Don't listen to the bleeding hearts, they will give you all the unreal hope in the world. The fact is any good paying job in IT has Security on the top of the list and your background check won't past muster. Save yourself some agravation and move south and get into refrigeration.

As a female migrant IT professional with **Australian** Uni degrees & 20 years' experience in the industry, it's been well nigh impossible to get a job in this country. What more an ex-con?

Even if you don't have a criminal record, don't even THINK of Australia...it's all smoke & mirrors. Believe it or not, you're best off in the USA. (I know because I've also worked there for a few years.)

I suggest that people stay open-minded when faced with these situations and give the applicant an opportunity to explain before crossing him/her off the list.

Twenty years ago, my husband committed homicide... justifiable homicide while protecting his family from 3 drunks who had randomly selected them to terrorize and torture. I am proud of my husband for how he handled this horrible situation - he may have taken a life (accidently, I might add), but he saved 3 other lives that have gone on to become productive members of society. Had his employer simply blown him off as a "murderer", the company would never have known the 14 years of valuable and dependable service he has provided to them. Nor would our children have been able to enjoy the decent lifestyle that he has worked hard to give them.

Now, I can't say that I would be too keen on bringing in someone who killed out of rage or jealousy, or even as a senseless or random act. As a manager, you have to think about how bringing someone with this kind of criminal background into your organization will affect EVERYONE on your team and how their attitudes will affect productivity. You also must think about all of your employees' safety... including the safety of this applicant. We've already seen from the replies on this message board that this is a hot topic for some people - can you imagine if these folks had to work together??? Geez!

I have a criminal record also but it is not as intense as yours it has been over 10 years ago and I am currently unemployed. I have searched for over a year trying to find some one to hire me and let me prove that I am a hard worker. I am A+ Network+ certified and I have changed my life around and no one will give me a chance. I volunteer for a non profit organization to get the experience that I need. In the meantime the job that I have been volunteering for came up for grab. The organization hired an unexperienced person that I had to train now they are making the money and my services are still for free. How did you find a company that did not require a background check? No one will give me a chance. You are very lucky keep up the good work.

Thanks

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=homicide

Homicide and murder mean the same thing. Seriously, in your feeble mind, what is the difference?

And I'm all for forgiving, but let's not paint this guy as some sort of hero. He is a convicted murderer. That is just a fact.

As a network security consultant and engineer, I've hired plenty of people, and I've contracted even more. I have a company policy that I will not HIRE a convicted felon unless I can cleary see (Justice system isn't always right) that there wouldn't be a problem. (Sorry, homicide, unless there are other circumstances that I don't know who count you out)

But I also contract many people. I don't ever know if they've been convicted. Some people might do a background checks, but I don't for contracts.

This is my advice: go freelance, and maybe start your own company.

Good luck and God Bless,
TekWiz

As a disabled computer Instructor I advocate using your skills by way of Self Employment. The field is two big to worry about the top money..
Motto:Create Yours....You can top off where you want and be happy. I can't go...don't and live..Global is passing on to Interplanetary...
Peace

MINDFIED...DON'T BLOW UP...

As a disabled computer Instructor I advocate using your skills by way of Self Employment. The field is two big to worry about the top money..
Motto:Create Yours....You can top off where you want and be happy. I can't go...don't and live..Global is passing on to Interplanetary...
Peace

MINDFIED...DON'T BLOW UP...

Congratulations!

You are one of the few in this forum who seems to have the idea.

Small-mindedness is not a good characteristic-even in those who have not been caught yet. It's too bad we have to put up with them, but it's a democracy for now.

As one of the survivors of America's shame, I thank you for your attitude.

tommy

Dear IT,

You must be one of those who delight in anyone's misery as long as you can feel superior.

How do I know each day was torture? Well, you obviously will never be a rocket scientist.

I don't know the circumstances of this homicide, but I have a reasonable expectation that since he is not still in jail, there must have been other factors in mitigation.

wow. nice responses. i especially love the red neck comments. funny considering i'm not even white.
you whining , crying, sniveling liberal weanies....
HE KILLED SOMEONE!!!!!
Don't give me that crap about serving his time. The only people who should be able to make that decsion is the family of the person HE KILLED!!!
Oh yes, i have skeletons in my closet, we all do. But, i NEVER KILLED ANYONE!!!!!!
Anyone here ever have a family member MURDERED(Homicide, whatever)? You would change your views.

Don't let anything stop you from a life, if you've really reformed froma past mistake, then its time to move on, educate yourself as much as possible, get whatever Certs you can afford to pay the training on and start networking, you don't have to tell everyone your life story or share your past mistakes everytime you apply for a job, HOWEVER if told a background check is mandatory - PLEASE be as honest as possible with emphasis on the steps you took to rehabilitate yourself, do not be over apolegetic for the past, be professional simple -

You made a mistake, by a US court you were convicted, you paid your time as required by law, you took charge of your personal rehabilitation, you now want to reemerg into society. This shows responsiblity, regret, honesty and the ability to turn around a VERY challenging situation (both personally and spirtually), put emphasis on that these very strengths and they will now serve you professionally.

Good luck

MRC

sorry for the polysyllabic word.

still hate you.

Nick,

You are a good man. It is refreshing to hear now and then, speaking as one who knows.

tommy

God, I hope not. I would rather anything than be a clone of that enlightened being.

Your heart seems to be in the right place at least. It is tough enough for any ex-con to make his/her way after such trauma, deserved or otherwise. One is limited to menial jobs, disenfrachisement as an institution (in 7 states) as well as the other "slings and arrows".

I was in for a so-called drug crime. I ran the blockade against what I still consider criminal laws. That was twenty years ago. I still cannot vote in the great state of Florida. You know Florida: the land of real estate scams, election fraud, telemarketing scams and hotrooms, and Jeb and his wife the smuggler who got caught. She did no jail time, big surprise.

I didn't murder anyone. Didn't steal from anyone. In fact didn't even break one of the ten commandments. Yet I feel for the originator of this discussion. Perhaps the judge did not give him a life w/o parole sentence for a reason. Maybe he was a teen at the time. Maybe it was vehicular. We don't know, but one thing is for sure: He asked us for our opinions, meaning help, openly and honestly and that should be worth something.

Hope I'm preaching to the choir.

tommy

You are in Montana, Idaho, Alabama, or some other lost real estate in what used to be the US. You spend a lot of time getting buzz cuts, taking paintball lessons, and hanging out with your mouth breathing buddies.

Just a guess.

Forget being hired
Print up business cards, get a suit, basic web page and declare yourself a CONSULTANT. Works for me

Aside from all the theological debates and whether or not you should be executed, I think that the common thread is: Try it. You cannot succeed without trying. While a decision you made in your past is affecting your future (gee, who doesn't have one of those in their life?), you can and will get through it. You will face barriers and rejection and judgemental people, but you also seem to have the right attitude. Unfortunately, the decision you made in the past is a large one to overcome, but you know that, and I know you can make it. Keep trying.

Focussing on your question...yes, you can become an IT admin. After all, you have a job now right? 4 years of good experiences and hopefully good references will help you on your way. Best of luck.

Jesus Christ got into the discussion at the very beginning because sidvail and others are facing insurmountable problems that appear hopeless. A goodly portion of this cadre wants to put the guy to death without knowing much about his story. Jesus Christ specializes in the tough jobs. It is not about bringing HIM into the discussion in the work place or during the interview. It is about trusting HIM to get you through all the overwhelming negative sentiments that sidvail is likely to face in just getting the interview in the first place. Not to mention the getting around all these people who would rather see you dead.

The "self made man" and "you can do anything you put your mind too" are common myths. Jesus said "without me, you can do nothing." Hard words to digest, but true nonetheless and someday, follower or not, everyone will know their truth.

By the way, I am a firm beleieve in capital punishment and so is God. But circumstances do make a difference and we are for now subject to the government that we have allowed to rule over us. So when a guy serves his time, I gotta assume he has paid his price. The Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Boy, oh Boy, oh Boy, that Jesus has a lot of great ideas! sidvail, I'd rather have HIM in my corner than an MSCE by itself. With Christ, you can have both.

At the last place I worked I worked with 4 guys that had killed people for various reasons and one that killed a fellow employee while I worked there. Of these 5, 4 were exemplary employees, the other one needed to be put away for life. The truth is that you can have a productive life if you first forgive yourself and don't let anyone put guilt back on you. It's not a matter of degree of sin, everybody is guilty in that category and sin is really only putting aside the purpose that God has for your life. Get on with it.

Been there, 19 yrs 6 mths 2 days, released 11/20/00. Learned acad in prison - took it to the n-th degree like every thing learned inside: vb code to automate 3D assemblies (not just parts); engineering analysis (acad auotmates most now); w/excel company specific mrp system (weren't allowed access to access).

Took a job doing the basics for company working in industrial power generation & chemical plant process control/design (all new to me): at 3 months moved to Design Engineer; at 7 - Project Engineer & Field Rep; at 16 mths - Eng. Manager; at 2 1/2yrs - Director of Ops. Am now trying to get my own company started.

I don't hide the fact that I'm an ex-con but don't expound on it either. I do try to inform whoever the subject comes up with that there are several types of ex-cons. Unfortunately most are the worthless type - get out, pay lip service to making it, start using dope/stealing (Nat.Avg. bank robbery $1200!?! get a job!), go back to prison for a few years, repeat, repeat.

As an ex-con, I have only hired other ex-cons after I had a site down with them (how many ex-cons can pull the wool over your eyes after 20 calanaders?) to see what type of ex-con they are, & most do not get the job - have to protect my employer/company first, & I tell them why & to take care.

The 'household name' companies I've worked with could care less if you're an ex-felon or if you cross dress every other Thursday - they simpily want their multi-tens of millions of dollars plant operating - be it the devil or whoever to get it running.

So, you, like everyone else, are in the position of having to let the big guys know your name & capabilities. Advantages we have (given that you are a sentient being & majority of time spent in higher levels): prison learned skills (legal ones) are more in-grained; will stay with a job until it is complete; self reliant; thinking out of the box; loyalty/dedication - forgotten terms out here; interpersonal skills.

Any way, I digress. Yes, guys like us can make it - we just have to have a little more drive, be a little sharper & always remember; we taken the worst society has to offer & been as low as you can go - show 'em how to start from zero!

How is this seen as a hoax?

My name is Sid Vail. I just wanted to know if security considerations would invalidate my entry into the IT field. I am not asking for breaks or forgiveness. The past and my actions are mine to live with. I have been doing so for 29 years since I crossed those boundries.

Nothing I can do can repay that action. But nothing you can say or do or think will give you a true glimpse of the horror of both sides unless you've been there.

I just want to be and do the best that I can. I'm the one that has to live with what I've done - not you. And I know the argument that my victim does not even get the chance to do that. I truely wish I could do something about that.

I wish now that I would never have started this thread, as I see the damage it has caused. From a simple answer of 'Yes, your background will violate security considerations and make it unlikely that you'll be hired' - or - "No, security is less of an issue than the quality of work you perform', it has degenerated into everything from religious forgiveness to "I hate you and you shouldn't even be alive".

If anyone would like to converse privately to either wish me luck, or even to curse me - please do so. I do not hide from my past, and accept full responsibility for it. I would like to think that we all need more of this honesty - and I strive, probably moreso than most - to be upfront with "Who and What" I really am. It's your right to like or not like me.

Sidvail@visittherealm.com

This is my own website, and not affiliated with my present job. Please do not put blame on my present employer simply because he gave me a chance.

Irrelevant, immaterial, and inconsequential; and, assumes facts not in evidence.

Clearly, you are one given to jump to conclusions, as well as being unforgiving in nature.

The difference between intellignece & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

Your language marks you as one not given to logical discourse. You are a disgrace to our profession.

Do the rest of us a favor and withdraw from this discussion.

The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

Ex-con ,I did 8yrs; now tech admin for midsize Accounting firm. Nothing is impossible! Put the right reasons first and the jobs you want and the job that wants you will land at your feet. Almost 8 years in IT, it never has been easy. I have had to deal with a lot less trash, than I had to deal with inside the pen. Life out here is a cake walk, I use my experience to inspire me more about what I am about. What God has given me no one can take away. All of God's prophets experience the fringe of society. They were never deny his blessings. Although not everyone is the same, I pray for you and hope you enough your achievements in this industry.

Whatever someone has done to get caught in the Justice system has its own context. Sometimes the circumstance(s) relates to the limited perceptions of options that party had at his or her disposition. Knowledge and education gives better tools for reasoning. If that party who has served his or her penalty (Justly and sometimes Injustly) has dedicated time to learn and to grow, then who shall throw the first stone? The competence and the determination of the individual should be measured for his/her own quality. Personally I believe that individual has a lot more to offer in regards to over-all growth than many others. Why are you consulting others for their opinion. Don't you have the attributes to measure a person for what they are presenting? Maybe you can learn from that individual something you don't recognize yourself.

having read your load of crap I must think that we should have kept all those extermenation camps in germany so you could feel more secure with yourself, JERK!!!! people like you are the perfect reason for third term abortion. go suk eggs!!!

READ MY PREVIOUS POSTING, JERK!!!!

I have hired a number of people with a severe criminal background. I have been burned and I have also hired some darn good people. Never let the narrow mindedness of a few rule your life.

I see enough replies that Im sure everything has been covered, but I would like to add my bit.

I have worked in IT for... well a long time now. I have had fingerprints taken, drug tests, hand righting samples, FBI checks, credit checks, and Im sure other things Im not even aware of.

We are put into a position of great power, more than most in management would guess. This mandates that the people we hire must have scruples. It does not require that people have to have clean records.

To clarify. I don't think any of the background checking told my employers if I would destroy data, divulge classified information, or read personal emails. It was required to secure the job, and I would NOT have the jobs on my resume without passing, but its sad that someone can be turned down for bad credit.

I think you will face problems. The industries you look in will be limited. All the certs, and all the experience will not change a employers mind when the compliance department, security department, or any other internal department has a mandate.

Look for smaller companies, and consulting. Don't feel bad if a IT manager says "I would, but can't" they are telling the truth. Specialize in something. You will not win a job on par with someone without a record.

hey, it is not the end of the world to have a criminal record. u have done your time and paid your penance, look forward and not backwards. God will answer your prayers. what matters is what you can do and nothing else. Keep it up and be real. all the best

hey, it is not the end of the world to have a criminal record. u have done your time and paid your penance, look forward and not backwards. God will answer your prayers. what matters is what you can do and nothing else. Keep it up and be real. all the best

A few years a go a man waited in an airport for the kidnapper & raper of his young son to be led through by fedral authorites, when they passsed by he shot & killed (murdered) the pervert then surrended peacfully. Feds had captured the man 1500 miles away with the boy, with plenty of physical evidence.

Premeditated - yes; murder - yes; life without parole - no, give him 10% of the money he saved tax payers in court cost.
note: rape used - molest does not cover the entire scope of the crime.

Mother walks into a court with a gun, when the man who rapped her child was not to be sentenced to any real time (he was being protected because he was an informant), she shot & killed him (murdered) him, then dropped the weapon.

Premeditated - yes; murder - yes; life without parole - no, inform her that she could have saved the people more money by shooting him when evidence first proved showed his guilt.

Point, unless you know the circumstances of sidvail's conviction your statements are over broad & prejudice - bring back the dueling system! Some people do need to be removed (murdered) to have a safe society.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
- Darth Vader

That is for you, D. Curry!

All of the above mentioned by Daniel Curry is a whole bunch of truth. Theres is no B.S. in it. What he did not mentioned to you is that, He (D. Curry) become successful IT because of hardwork and dedication. Of course, nobody told you that it will be easy, but, as all things goes, it can be done!

I do not blame him though for his sentiments. For I did things really bad in my youth. But if you beleive in what his sentiments are, you will be just a worthless turd in somebody's boot, if you know what I mean.

Just keep at it, and keep everything said about in this article, keep it in consideration. Do not falter, do your life much better that it was before. You do your own decision and do not forget to ask God for blessings and guidance.

there's no harm on trying... past is past and its over... how can you start a bright new dat if you will not forgot the past... I hope those people will understnd the practicability of life... you have already served the consequence of your past... Just keep up the good work... Fighting!

If you are going to speak in public, learn the facts and what is acceptable conduct, as well as how to construct a logical argument, based on facts in evidence, & then reach a conclusion supported by said facts.

Gut based, emotional outbursts will not be well received.

The difference between intelligence & stupidity is that stupidity knows no limitations.

The title says it all.

Tommy: I was right, You are a loser. Florida drug convict, equates murder with stepping on a bug, and advocates lying to your employer. Luckily, you work at Best Buy. If that doesn't work out, maybe McDonalds will hire you. Maybe. Burn in hell....

Deepsand: Again, I pose the question, what in your feeble mind, differentiates homicide from murder? It is one in the same. That is just a simple fact.

I now bid goodbye, for you 2 remind me of a saying...Never try to teach pigs to sing, because it wastes my time, and annoys the pigs...

If you are going to take a public position, you would be well advised to apprise yourselg of the relevant facts before you speak.

Said commission's findings of fact state that unlike Clinton, Bush FAILED to become sufficiently personally involved with the salient issues; i.e. he displayed a failure to lead.

I would not call that a virtue of a good commander-in-chief.

Clearly, you choose to either not learn the facts or to ignore those that do not support your pre-drawn conclusion.

I can only hope that you do not vote as well.

.
Depending on a plethora of things, most of which none of us are privy to, it may or may not be impossible for you to find a niche somewhere.

I can't offer you any advice because I've never been involved with such considerations.

However, move foreword, be honest, be productive, try to do good, and the rest will just fall into place.

I wish you the best.

Sounds like you're already proving experise, so just keep it up. Make sure that your resume reflects this variety of technical skills, and in a format business hiring managers understand - projects, goals met, results achieved. Don't load the resume with too much techie jargon or too many network acronyms - they mean nothing to most people who do the initial screening. Talk in broad terms about technologies and platforms, but avoid getting into the nitty-gritty in your resume. You can discuss the technical details in the interview, and be prepared to possibly answer some frank questions.

Remember: The resume gets you the interview, the interview gets you the job!

Good luck, keep us informed. :)

First of, my father is an ex-con. Spent 16 years in Angola State Pen. There had been questions asked to him by employers and some turn downs as well. However, being the man he was, he picked up his chin and moved on. He knew he had a family to support and that is what he set his sights on. I eventually helped him get a full pardon from the Govenor. This is something you should look at doing. Then by law, you have the right to answer no to the big question that I am sure haunts you, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?". Take a look at this option, get your certifications under your belt, and then wear them proudly on your chest and get yourself into the position in life you have been wanting for the past 20 years or so. Good luck and God Bless.

Sidvail,

In short - a couple certs will help! Without experience, a college degree, or certs - you better be engaged to the bosses daughter. These are no guarantee you will get a position, but they will help. One piece of advice I would give you - have a lot of references. I would even include my current employer.

The only other advice I could offer is to stay in a position for a long time. Nobody likes someone that switches jobs every 6-8 months. I've turned away a number of people that haven't been able to stay with a position longer then a couple months.

Good luck!

Chris

Hi Sid,
Yes, you can go ahead and appear for more certifications, well, i feel big companies like IBM or Exxon has some company policies that they dont employee anyone who is got convicted, but you can work with network managment companies or even start you own company for network services.
All the best for you future.
-DD

Everyone have make mistake before. But you can truely use your skil to perform at company, and prove that you has correct it. I don't think anyone will keep remember about your pass.

Keep up.

Finally, someone sees certification EXACTLY the way I see it. I honestly thought I was alone for a long time. Wow! Thank you.

In my experience, most experienced IT managers with more than two or three years on the job realize this. The unfortunate part is that due to the marketing, etc. regarding certification, most managers learn this the hard way early on - they hire a cert junkie, then have an actual, real problem - and Mr. Certs can't fix it. An expensive, indelible lesson.

Now that we've dared speak evil of the major certifications, will the Cisco Hit Squad take us out? :)

... when the worst I ever did was have a $10 bad check that I paid a couple weeks later.

If you aren't squeaky clean, you can't get a job at most high and mighty places, even if you offer the HR or IT manager a blow job a day for the position.

Thanks Lloyd,

You summed it up perfectly. I like the way these fools equate all crimes equally. Murder is Murder.

I am not afraid of Sid for he is probably remorseful, and surely a lamb by now, but that does not bring a life back. If these dummies don't know that, have them talk to the victim?s family.

I am more afraid of guys like head in the sand and the likes. These are time bombs ready to go off at any time.

Sure nobody is perfect and deserves a second chance yes, but with reservations. This guy can not live long enough to eradicate the evil nasty thing that he committed.

Yes your statements are true. In both of your cases it was just an eye for an eye. The Murdered(rapist) did not justify their killings. I am sorry you missed the boat here.

Lets start a debate on the 10 commandments now, yes then it'll degrade into a holy war...we all know how fun those are (tongue in cheek). ;)

But no "Thou shalt not commit adultry" means don't sleep around with other folks when you are married. That's it. period. done.

Next issue?

Ratioanl???? What is that? Head in the sand again?

In "Our Profession" Sorry I don't work at the local spoon diner.

We all have skeletons in our closet for various so call crimes, but we are not killers. Are you sure you are employed?

Please don't litter this forum with your bovine manure. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.....so shut the fu*k up.

Warrior,

I can tell that you are a very angry person. That's too bad. I do live in the real world buddy, and I know what murder is. I grew up in a very bad neighboorhood, and saw bad things happen. You seem so irrational, probably from your rage, I hope you can control yourself in the workplace, because for that I am sure you would get fired. Do you hate me? You don't even know me. Or do you just hate the truth that I posted. If you are too closed minded to ever look into what I have said, I feel very bad for you, because one day you will know the truth, but it will be too late. I can see from your response that you are not a Christian, I am, and I can testify to the change God can make in your life. I will attempt to address your response, as angry and irrational as it is.

1. "Please let me know which planet you are living in. Sorry to say that we live in a world that has a lot of horrible crimes. You talk of murder like it was just like going out stealing a bike, robbing houses, or stealing from your neighbors. We are talking about turning off your lights fool." I will clarify myself here. Murder is terrible, I would consider it much worse than stealing a bike or such. My last post refers to the way it relates to God. Murder is a sin, and so is stealing. To God, sin is sin, none is worse than any other, except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (which is rejecting Christ's sacrafice). To the whole "turning off your lights fool" I didn't realize we were talking about killing me, or if I am a fool or not. Obviously you say I am, I would say your speech doesn't seem very professional, and that you are to angry to be rational.

2. "This guy has the privilege like you or me to see the light of day. Like I said before I don't know the nature of his homicide. Obviously it must be of the most horrid because he does not elaborate." Yes he does, and the person that he killed does not. That is typical with murder and probably all of us know that, but thank you for pointing it out. You also just assume it was bad, have you looked it up, I doubt it. You are too irrational for that. The fact is, you don't know.

3. "I am sick of religious freaks like you that preach the gospel but hide behind the forgiveness of the lord when you do wrong. Wake up and live in the real world." Wow. You are so angry, I'm sorry that you misunderstand so much. Maybe if you let go of your rage and opened your eyes you could understand what the truth really is. I would like to clarify that I am not a religious freak, just a Christian. I do preach the Gospel, because if it reaches one person it is worth dealing with people like you. God has forgiven me of my sins, but they hold consequences. I do not hide behind forgiveness, though I am forgiven. If I commit a crime, I will be punished, and I will suffer consequence. Where is there any hiding? Please tell me where you see it, and I will explain it so that you can understand.

4. "If he accidentally killed someone or was involved in a situation where he had no control of his doings I would hire him first before a goof ball like you." Wow, again such anger directed at me. Well, just to let you know, you will never have the power to hire or not hire me. I am very good at what I do, and sought after in my area. You would also not know what my religious beliefs were before you hired me, because that is an illegal question. If you fired me for it, I would sue you as it is my right to be a Christian, and even to show it at the workplace. I would also like to state that sometimes I may be a 'goofball' but I am very professional when I need to be, even here, where you seem out of control.

5. "Luckily for you, you are not working for me; your ass would be polishing the pavement. What institution did you escaped from? You are considered dangerous but forgivable. Chill out old man." I am not 'lucky' friend, I am blessed, but thank you for seeing that. I will never be working for you, I am already in an upper level position, and will not be needing you. I also do not 'polish pavement' I am a Regional IS Admininstator for a Fortune 250 company. I manage their IS dept in 5 states. I have never been instituitionalized, though I did serve in the US Army and have a security clearance. I would also not consider myself dangerous in most circumstances, and yes I am forgiven (but we can all be forgiven). To the 'chill out old man' part, I must say I am a pretty laid-back person, but am certainly not and old man. Truth be told I am still in my early twenties, and am blessed with success.

6. "Have you ever heard of the Ten Commandments? If not I would advise you to verse up on it. One of them is to do on to others as you want others to do on to you. I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you. So please don't give me your crap." Yes I have heard of the Ten Commandments, I actually know them all, and in order,(do you?)I have them hanging in my office at home (I got them from the 700 club, it's very nice looking). You should also know that 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is not one of the Ten Commandments. I will tell you what they are and where you can find them so that you can educate yourself:
The TEN COMMANDMENTS
-------------Exodus 20:1-17-------------
Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3"You shall have no other gods besides Me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any like-ness of what is in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the four fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male servant or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
13 "You shall not murder.
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
15 "You shall not steal.
16 "You shall not bear false witness against your
neighbor.
7 "You shall not covet you neighbor's house; you
shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male
servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that
belongs to your neighbor."

So as you can see, here they are, and that is not one of them. Now Jesus said this, " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Matthew 22:37-39. So this is where you get that, but it is not a part of the Ten Commandments. Now you know. Now the whole "I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you." is pretty dumb, of course murder is always wrong, and we all know that two wrongs do not make a right, just the same as two lefts do not make a right. I give you no crap, only truth, how you choose to use it is up to you. Maybe your next reply can be a little more prepared, intelligent, professional, and I hope you will be able to overcome your anger problem, I did, through Jesus. Thank you and God Bless.

The foloowing are just a few of the definitions of Homicide:

Before everybody crucifies this person without knowing the circumstances, please educate yourselves and read the following.

criminal homicide
: homicide committed by a person with a criminal state of mind (as intentionally, with premeditation, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence)

excusable homicide
: homicide that is committed by accident or misfortune by a person doing a lawful act by lawful means with usual and ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent and that is excused under the law with no criminal punishment imposed; also : JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE in this entry

homicide by misadventure
: homicide that occurs as the result of an accident caused by a person doing a lawful act with no unlawful intent

justifiable homicide
: homicide that is committed in self-defense, in defense of another and esp. a member of one's family or sometimes in defense of a residence, in preventing a felony esp. involving great bodily harm, or in performing a legal duty and that is justified under the law with no criminal punishment imposed; also : EXCUSABLE HOMICIDE in this entry

ve?hic?u?lar homicide
/vE-'hi-ky&-l&r-/
: homicide committed by the use of a vehicle (as an automobile or boat)

most businesses when they hire an outside contractor do not check backgrounds. I've been doing this for 20+ years and my customers are happy to get good service. They couldn't care less what I did in the past - only what I've done for THEM lately! I could work more housrs than are in a day if I chose, and hire an entire stable of programmers. No one would even check. Don't let the past define who you are.

I have been working with attorneys for more than thirty years as an independent-contractor paralegal. My work has won eight cases in the U.S. Supreme Court. You will have to be upfront with the people with whom you deal in a sensitive field such as IT manager, but if you are and they are willing to hire you, the only thing that will stop you after that is not doing what you are supposed to do. Good luck. Frank

I'm a software engineer, and I served 5 years probation in early 1990's. I tell my potential employers I have a criminal record if their job application asks. Some applications ask "Been convicted of a felony in last 7 years?" or perhaps 3 years, but some say "ever", but a few don't ask AT ALL. I try to give little info ON the application if it asks for "Details". I'll merely write, "first and only conviction - third degree felony in 199X, not money- or job-related". The interviewer, usually Human Resources, will ask for details, and I'll say, "I was younger, and in a bad place at that time. I learned from my experience and will NOT be breaking the law again." and if they ask for more details, "I served out my probation without incident, and am now not on probation."

In your case, try to avoid mentioning prison, and skirt the issue by saying, "My 'time' is over, and I'm not currently on probation.", thus avoiding mentioning parole, which indicates that you served "hard time" in prison. Most "regular" people don't know the difference between parole and probation. If you are asked what the sentence was, say, "19 years, which I served without incident." and again avoid whether your sentence was probated or you served "hard time" and were perhaps paroled, since people are just leary about people who have been in prison. If they ask directly if you served any time in prison, you should practice some kind of response that shows that you were an ideal inmate and feel stronger from the experience... That's a tough one...

If you are on parole or probation, some employers may be leary of hiring you, since if you violate your parole/probation "agreement" with even a minor infraction, your "supervision" with the criminal justice system could be terminated and you'd go directly to prison to serve the whole, or remainder of your sentence. This could leave your employer in the lurch, to say the least.

I had a Secret Security Clearance before my conviction, and three years ago, I re-applied (usually the clearance can be re-activated if it's been under 2 years since you last held it or had your clearance "reviewed", which happens every 4 years). The investigators didn't ask me anything, but perhaps asked my previous employers and neighbors about me. My previous land-lord (who was also a personal friend) told the investigators that he knew about my conviction and that I was a good tenant. The investigators can find out your past addresses from your credit history. Of course serving time would leave a big hole in your credit history...

So, there is life after a felony conviction. It's harder to find a job lately with the economic downturn (unlike in the 1990's), and perhaps my conviction is keeping me from getting interviews (I'm out of work and looking currently).

I can't see your felony conviction hampering your becoming a System Administrator any more than my getting a job as a S/W Engineer. If asked, be willing to talk about your conviction in positive terms, and bring the discussion back to what you can do for your potential employer.

Oh, I worked with a Software Engineer who had prison tatooes on his fore-arms, and was an ex-junky (he talked about this openly). He got his degree after putting all his "wild" in-and-out-of-jail/prison life behind him. So, I'm not the only professional person who has a "record" (although I can think of NO others in my 20+ years in the industry). But, considering that I've only worked with four or five African-Americans in my whole carreer, it just shows that I'm in some kind of elite technical "club".

Good luck (oh, and wish me luck, too - hehe).

JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE - That which is committed with the intention to kill or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.
MURDER - In some of the states, by legislative enactments, murder has been divided into degrees. In Pennsylvania, the act of April 22, 1794, makes "all murder which shall be perpetrated by means of poison, or by lying in wait, or by any other kind of wilful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which shall be committed in the perpetration or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, rape, robbery, or burglary, shall be deemed murder of the first degree; and all other kinds of murder shall be deemed murder of the second degree; and the jury before whom any person indicted for murder shall be tried, shall, if they find the person guilty thereof, ascertain in their verdict, whether it be murder of the first or second degree; but if such person shall be convicted by confession, the court shall proceed by examination of witnesses, to determine the degree of the crime, and give sentence accordingly.

With that said, let's bear in mind that between these two extremes there are many areas that are neither black nor white (no pun intended). For this reason there exists sentencing guidelines in homicide, so that the jury or judge may determine a sentence sufficient for paying for the crime. As we learn more about the human mind, some types of homicide draw lesser sentences while others draw more.
A proud IT worker who throws a banana peel outside his car (so as not to ruin the beautifull fragrance of the leather) and causes an old lady's death, is to me more culpable than a humble grocery packer who in a rage stabs his wife because of infidelity. In the State where I live, many persons who pack groceries have diminished mental capacities, or learning disabilities. Nevertheless, if they commit a crime they should pay the price. The 'IT Dude' on the other hand has above-average mental capacity, and should thus realize what the consequences of his actions can be, thereby meriting a more severe sentence because of this fact.
The punishment should fit the crime, not our anger. The point in sending someone to prison is to bring about reform, not to ruin that person's life forever (unless his crime deserves it).
Leave the eternal judgement to God.

THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT?

Like most, your definition is based on contemporary ethics, as defined by, for example, law and/or modern translations of the Bible.

If you want to know what the Ten Commandments REALLY state, you must:

1) Go to the oldest known written recordings of such;
2) Read such in the original language and/or translate using the then current meanings & idioms of said language as it was then used; and,
3) Interpret them in the then current sociological context.

You cannot simply start and end with current translations.

When in doubt, consult the experts; in this case, Biblical & Historical scholars.

I stand by my prior post; it is historically accurate.

Funny, I thought the idiot was a LEFT-wing redneck nut-case. Other than that I agree with your post.

My problem with your posts have been that you offer conclusions only; no supporting empirical facts, and no logical thread leading from them to your conclusion.

One of the first things that I learned as a Plebe at the US Naval Academy was that FACTS COUNT; opinions matter, but only when based on facts.

If asked a factual question by a superior, there are only 2 acceptable responses; either a factual answer, or the rote response "I'll find out, Sir."

If your factual response was incorrect, and you were asked why you answered incorrectly, the only acceptable response is "No excuse, Sir."

If it is the case that you guessed, and are asked why you guessed, the only acceptable response is "Sir, since I have neither diligently labored, nor brought forth pale and glimmering beads of perspiration upon my blanched and palid brow, I find myself in this inexcusable position of complete and utter ignorance which I now attempt to elucidate. Having but meager knowledge of the question concerned and acting on the erroneous assumption that my lettered interrogator might not recognize the rank inaccuracy of my attempt, acting more on a woman's intuition than a midshipman's erudition, and seizing blindly the abstruse possibility that my futile fumblings might prove correct---I guessed, Sir."

And, of course, if you were asked why you committed various other simple breaches of logic, there were equally tortuous responses that had to be memorized and spewed forth upon demand.

The one simple point of all of these are to teach one to THINK BEFORE SPEAKING. It was a lesson well learned, and one that has stood me in good faith.

It has also made me intolerant of those who have not learned this simple principle, and refuse to do so.

Still, who knows, we may yet break bread together.

Sidvail,
Yeah, you really stirred up a ****-pot, didn't you? It's like when you turn on the kitchen light after coming home and seeing all the surprised roaches running for cover.
It's amazing how people react when their fur is rubbed the wrong way. You managed to uncover a cross-selection of the American psyche including unforgiving religious zealots, helpful Christians, mindless unforgiving knee jerk rectionaries, sensible and insensible businessmen with respectively helpful or condemning feedback, and just plain folks, good and bad with their inner thoughts (and prejudices).
As for those condemning Bible-thumpers (not the honest supportive Christians), although I am not a particularly religious person, I would like to remind them (and they should realize it) is that God is always watching EVERYBODY and their day of accounting for what they have done and said will come around same as for everybody. What you do may be less important to Him than how you handle it. And you have no problems there. sidvail.
One thing I picked up from a lot of the supportive replies and what I agree with completely, is that only The Man is allowed to pass final judgment on how people live their lives. Not everyone gets to dine at the same table and the choices you or anyone else have to make are always unique, so how can people make these 'blanket statements'? How much is the situation affected by friends, family, urgency, danger, or ANYTHING offset the equation?
Nobody can judge you until they become you and face everything you did at the time. Who knows how they will react to anything until they have to face it?
Anyway, I'm glad if I helped in any way, and I think from what you have said so far you have a good heart and attitude - just don't get too down on yourself, you paid your dues.
Now go make somebody's IT systems purr. Again, best of luck to you.

James,
Kudos to you, I couldn't have said it better in a million words. I wonder how quickly some of these opinionated fools would change their story if they found themselves in the same situation as sidvail? Would they feel that they should also 'burn in Hell forever' as some of them have said?
It seems like for every person who takes the time to think things through, there are a dozen others with no thought to the implications of their attitudes. Hatred has such fertile soil to sink its roots in and thrive.
Thanks for keeping the voice of reason alive.

Again, check the facts.

Bush garnered a MINORITY of the popular vote!

You've been watching too many TV shows and/or movies, or listening to those who do.

Everything that you've said merely recounts old cliches. Nowhere do I find any FACTS being offered.

As you have clearly never experienced any of that about which you speak, you would be well advised to seek out those who have.

Then, come back here and offer us a cogent argument. Until, then, watch, listen, and learn.

May the future be kind.

Julio..
I never had the chance to go to Cuba (not yet, anyway), but I have been bounced around in South America, Europe, Russia, the Middle East and most of S.E. Asia for 25 years working in transmission engineering and now IT consulting (in Japanese, 'gaijin' = foreigner/'outside person'/uncivilized barbarian - take your pick), and please believe me, job applications in most places are not protected against privacy intrusion like they are in the USA.
Most places, they ask you ANYTHING and refusal to answer ANYTHING usually simply ends the discussion on the spot.
Sidvail is being real, and he is willing to work for what he gets, but to do that he deserves a fair shake, and in most countries, his background won't give him that, whether it is fair or not.
I don't know anything about daily life in Cuba, and I'm not trying to say anything bad it, but Sidvail doesn't need to be shuffled off in shame to someplace where he has to hide, he wants to be accepted as a working man where he is.
This is not an attack on you, please don't misunderstand me, because your posting was basically supportive. But from your email domain, it looks like you are now living in Mexico? So you must have chosen to travel or work wherever you want, and Sidvail deserves the same choice.

A family member has died in anothers hands Lloyd, and no, my views are still the same...I hope you never have a car accident thats kills someone when you are at fault LLoyd, that would make you a murderer...then you might changed your mind...and no Lloyd, before you go jumping to conclusions, I have not killed anybody.