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Confused Over Licensing?

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by jereg

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I?ve seen a number of posts recently about software licensing issues. This may be the worst thing an admin has to deal with. While we are all aware of the predatory practices MS has instituted, what about all the other software companies?
In thepast, I?ve gotten different answers from every company I called. There was a delay in receiving software I had ordered from on company, and when I called, they said since I had a purchase order, I could go ahead and copy the software where ever I needed it. I asked another company if they would replace the media in the event of a fire and I was told that I would have to repurchase the software, even though I could prove that I had bought the software.
I had an employer that thought we neededto keep every copy of disks that we bought because that was our license. Another company told me all we needed was our paid invoices, they proved we had bought the license.
If you read the MS EULA, it says that you cannot transfer the license unless the recipient agrees to accept it. If a thief steals your laptop, do you have the license or does he? You didn?t agree to transfer it, and you still have the receipt for the purchase, so do you still own it?
I think that these are questions that need to be addressed by the software industry. I think it?s hard to justify licensing agreements until there is an industry standard.

15 replies

by lordinfidel

Liscensing is one of the biggest headaches for admins. It is hard to keep track of even in a good company with the best intentions.

There are basically 2 avenues when it comes to liscening, OEM and stuff you buy.

OEM means, that when you buy a system, all of the software that comes preinstalled on it, including the OS, belong to that system and that system only. If the system is stolen, so is the liscence. That's just the way it goes.

Now there are ways around it when reporting to MS. They don't care about OEM versus liscences that you buy. All they want to know is do you have a valid liscense for each product that is installed.

by tomsal

Just posting in reply to

"Now there are ways around it when reporting to MS. They don't care about OEM versus liscences that you buy. All they want to know is do you have a valid liscense for each product that is installed. "

Having just came from a Microsoft Licensing seminar not more than 3 weeks ago, as an IT person I thought it was my obligation to point out the facts on this.

Microsoft DOES care about OEM licenses.

You can't transfer licenses that are OEM. If you buy non-OEM licenses you can transfer them with the sale of accompanying software. However if you have OEM software - the system must go with the software. You can't (legally anyways) buy a Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc. with Win98 pre-installed and then turn around and sell that Windows 98.

In general OEM software is something I like to avoid where possible. Its more expensive in the long run if you do software upgrades with any hint of regularity. Case in point - downgrade licenses.

Scenario: You by a Dell system it comes with WinXP (illustration purposes only - bare with me), well you want Windows 2000. Microsoft's official stance to that is - fine you can do that, but first you need to purchase a downgrade license *AND* then you can purchase your Windows 2000 software and license. That's because its OEM. Now had I built my own system and bought Win XP retail (again illustration only - who'd really toss money like this?), I don't need any downgrade license to go to Win 2000. I just buy Win 2000. Finally you *CAN* "unattach" an OEM license and make it non-OEM (non-machine dependant)....that's a license purchase by itself.

I can back all this information up, if you want. I have the phone numbers of MS's regional offices as well as the seminar sponsors.

by syadm

In Your example with the Dell computer+OEM XP there is another way to go. You are maybe entitled to a refund for XP if it was preloaded on the machine and You format the disk without starting the XP system. The You can buy whatever system You want and install.
IMHO this is cheaper than buying downgrade + real license.
For details on this, please see http://linuxmall.com/refund/
You might have some use of Your M$ phone info here :-)
// Tom

by lordinfidel

I thougt I made it clear that OEM liscneses technically belong to the machine.

However, As someone who has gone thru 2 seperate MS "audits". All they want to know is who many liscneces you have. They don't care where they came from when you fill out the audit sheet and send it back to their lawyers.

But if it came down to the marshalls and auditers physcially showing up at your location. Then you better have the documentation for it.

Yes, obviously if you have a different OS then the one you want on a OEM machine you have to buy the OS. But from what I understand, the OEM OS can not be transferred to any other machine.

What I was trying to get at is that there are ways that IT depts pool liscensing together. If you have 200 dells and 50 home built systems all running 2K. You better be able to prove that you have 250 liscenses.

I have never been subject yet to them coming back and saying how many OEM liscences do you have versus other purchases. They have always lumped the total's together, never making the distinction.

by lordinfidel

Now if you get audited by MS, physically audited, you need 2 out of 3 items to prove compliant. The box, EULA, CD. (An invoice/paid bill can be in lieu of one of the 3 and most of the time all 3)

Just as long as you can prove that you have liscenses. The best way with MS is to get yourself enrolled in open liscensing. You will need to go thru your vendor and you need to purchase a minimum of 5 items to qualify. Then make sure that any further MS items you purchase is thru that program.
Other vendors. The rule of thumb is, keep everything. (Box, CD, Eula).

Generally you do not get audited by them, unless you get a letter from the BSA. And even then you don't get audited unless A: you TELL them you are not compliant or B: someone else tells them you are not compliant.

The biggies to make sure that you are compliant with (Adobe, Apple, Symantec, Macromedia) Those 4, along with MS, have historically been members of the BSA.

Each vendor has their own requirements and are entitled to it under the law. As long as they state that in order to use their products you have to agree to their terms then it is legal. If you agree to it, then it is up to you to remain legal.

My final advice.... Stay really close, within +/-2% of the big 5. Keep tight reigns of who is authorized to buy software and install it. Keep all software *Locked* in a cabinet with controlled access.

Good luck

by admin-stuart

I'd like to verify a point in the last post with my own personal experience. Last year, MS oversaw a self audit here where I am Net Admin., and the licensing for non-open license products (mostly Win9x) was verified using only faxed copies of invoices for purchase of the PCs preinstalled with the OS. They seemed quite satisfied. Maybe we were just lucky.

by lordinfidel

From my experience MS talks a mean game.

But we have to remember that we are dealing with humans, not machines.

From the 2 audits I have been part of (none of them physical) I have never had MS come back and say prove it.

But I also made sure that all of my ducks were in a row also. That I had some sort of physical proof that I had the MS product.

Over time things disappear, and an invoice is a great proof of purchase. There is no denying it, especially when it comes thru one of the big vendors like dell, compaq, ibm, gateway.

The thing that get's people in trouble is when they send in their audit sheets back to MS and they send them in with items missing.
Like they will state that they have 15 sql servers installed but only 5 liscenses and 5 cals. Well that will raise flags and begin an physical audit.

by dallen

You would seriously think that there would be a common (ISO) standard among software vendors. Every year things get more and more complex. I like others find myself buried under paper work to stay in compliance.

It would be nice if the big vendors got together to creat a universal schemea to licensing. Will it happen, probably not as each vendor has too many "special" needs.

I for one wish the ISO would step in and offer a solution. Or at least some other organization. This is just my twocents.

Power to the techies! :)

by lordinfidel

But as all of us are smart enough to know. It would never happen.

I mean come on, how would they rob us then?

by jereg

Everyone is making great points, but I'm thinking along the lines of, what is an easy way to make sure you are compliant? What is the simple way to show you have the licenses you are supposed to have? And could the be made an industry standard?
(yeah, right)
I feel that the burden placed on small companies is difficult to comply with.

by dallen

I guess the easiest way to make sure you are compliant would probably have an outside audit done first. This would allow you to see where you stand, from a neutral party perspective.

After the audit, you would designate a site lead to perform future audits of thier divisions or sites. Based on a standard criteria developed by the outside auditor.

Lastly to prove the purchase of the license I would have a copy of all refernced invoices. This is enough proof in a court of law, to prove ownership and dismiss willfull intent to use more licenses than purchased.

After all that is in order I would designate a individual in each department to be responsible for future software purchases, to be approved by the MIS Director. I think this would be the most feasible route for any organization. But you have to also remember most small business's could care less about the requirements, and even more do not have the knowledge to stay compliant.

-Damon

by admin

The simple way with MS products is to keep the EULA and proof of purchase on everthing.
Proof of purchase on everything else. Don't get upgrades without keeping all products back to the original specifically tied to the upgrade. Let OEM's die with the machine. Another point sometimes people get confused on is thinking that registration numbers actually mean something.

At a small office you can check this by hand, looking at the software installed. If you want a program to do it for you, MS and BSA give them out for free and they will give you a list of everything on your network. I would also make sure you have good policies and procedures, which you can get for free at BSA or they have a package here at TR that's inexpensive too.

Idon't really like the way licensing is either, as Tom pointed out above, it would be a lot easier to just have one program instead of many. OEM's seem to cause the most confusion. I find that management has a more difficult time keeping track of this than tech folk, and a lot of misunderstanding has more to do with the real cost of full business licensing compared to packages at compUSA or whatever.

by jereg

What about Dell, Compaq, etc.? Can you order systems without software? Can you say I don't want any software, I'll get it myself?
I've had a problem with that in the past. They've said they would take it off,but I still pay the same price, so I payfor it anyway.

by lordinfidel

I remember that there was a time that when you ordered from dell that you can say No OS.

But I do not believe that they do it anymore.

You can order servers with linux on it, but I beleive every system that comes out has to have an OS on it. I think it is just their company policy.

I only order from Dell for servers/desktops and IBM for laptops. But I think compaq is the same way.

by tomsal

LordInfidel, regarding the previous posts on OEM licensing - I got your drift. More or less just misunderstanding on my part and then I was just re-iterating what I've learned from the supposed "License experts".

Personally I think licensing should be as simple as pay X$ per MACHINE and you get X% discounts based on your size. Period. No ridiculous downgrade licensing, no "upgrade advantage plus" BS, no contracts.

Just short and simple and you Don't need to re-license for upgrades either.

Ever.

But anyway, on the Dell thing - yeah you are right they still don't allow you to get a system without an OS. That's one thing I don't like, but like I posted before they do make some fine servers I must admit.

later.

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