How much should this job pay?

I would be asking for about 35k range and up to start off. Are you the only person in IT?

Based on your descriptions somehwere in 50-60K range in California.

Let them outsource it and see how much it would cost...

In California, I would expect at least 50k per year. I dont know anyone here in Tennessee who would do that for less than 40k. Sounds like they are taking advantage of your lack of formal IT training, I am just assuming from your post that you dont have formal training.

by at least 3x your wage.
A way to bring it up is to contact an outsourcing agency and find out how much they would expect to pay someone for the job.

Yes, your skills are worth three times what they are paying you. On an hourly wage, it should be around $25. an hour. On a yearly basis, 50K is not unreasonable.

Hello...

To answer your question:

I agree with the others. Your position should be paid $50-$60K per year. I also think you should have at least one assistant.

But...What should you do?

Based on what you said in your post and how you said it, I'm going to guess about a few things. I'm just trying to understand and make a recommendation. No disrespect of any kind is intended. If I get any of it wrong, please be gentle!

- You're young (under 25), single, little or no college, and this is your first "IT" job.

Assuming I am correct, they have no business making you the "IT Department Manager" and paying you just $10 per hour.

You've gotten some great "first IT job" experience and they've gotten a cheap loyal effective IT manager AND a staffer. Now it's time for you to switch gears. I don't think "asking for a raise" is what you should do. They already know they are getting you for a song and do not respect you (their problem, not yours). $10 per hour for your job is absurd and they know it. You need to get some respect to get paid appropriately and asking for a raise will not make them respect you.

You should take your experience and find another IT job at the appropriate rate for your experience. It won't be $50-60K though. Maybe $40K. Choose a company with room to grow. There is nowhere for you to grow in IT in your current job. You're already the top IT guy after all. And, the top IT guy makes $10 per hour at your firm. Ridiculous.

Good luck to you. I would hire a guy like you in a second (no openings, sorry).

P.S. How did I do with my guesses? :-)

You are definitely underpaid for what you are doing. You should be making at least $35-40K, even if this is your first IT job.
However, if you ask for what you're worth, I don't think they are going to agree to pay you another $20K or so per year.
This is the car business after all, and you're not selling cars.
What I would do is get your resume together and see what is out there. Interview with some companies and (hopefully) get an offer of employment.
You are then in the position of telling your current employer to pay you what you're worth or you're moving on to bigger and better things.
They already know outsourcing IT will cost them more than they are willing to pay, so they will do the same thing they did with you: try to find another bright individual already in the company who wants the job.
Best of luck to you!!

but whoever heard of an employer doubling wages overnight. Test the market by looking at job ads appropriate for your current skills and show these to your current employer (in the nicest possible way) as evidence of your worth. If they won\'t give you an acceptable raise then start looking around seriously.

Pelco is same as cult............? arent they biggest employer in Fresno?

Anyways, I think you should keep in mind that people with technical knowledge are hard to come by in Fresno, so negotiate and know they can afford to let anyone go and take the loss so do it with little diplomacy.

All the best

TechExec is right on the money with what was said. Also, don't
plan on getting a raise that matches your skills and time in the
company. Moving forward, they have already sized up what
you're worth and you won't agree on what it is (translation:
GETTING BENT OVER). This is one of the problems of moving up
in a company when you gain skills. Most of the time, the
company never accepts the fact that you have new skills and are
worth more.

In a nutshell, you need to leave. This much work in Southern
California would be at least $50K a year. I know admins at ISP's
who do half that work and make that much.

I am going to respond to your question, because it is one that is often asked by inexperienced workers. The title of the reply captures the main theme: your future is your responsibility.

You will not get the raise you are looking for by being passive. Your company is paying you $10/hr. and they like it that way. They will continue to do so as long as you let them. You are the interested party; it is up to you to change the experiment.

Now, before you go banging your fist on your bosses? desk, I am not suggesting that you go off half-cocked and do something foolish like immediately burning your bridges. You need to be prepared for the bad news that you present company has no intention of promoting you or giving you a raise once you ask for it.

Polish up your resume and start seeing what the job market has to offer (you should do this at least once every 6 months). Are you as marketable as you hope/believe? Additionally, do some informational interviews with some local senior managers and executives who are in the telephony / telecom industry. Although the reason for your request for an interview is specifically to get career advice, these interviews very often end up as de facto initial job interviews. If you have gaps in your experience or education, address these gaps with whatever remediation is required.

When you get job offers, make sure it?s real; ask for ? and if necessary insist on ? an offer letter that spells out your title, what you are being hired to do, and what your pay will be.

Once you do all of this, and you have a job offer in your pocket, go back to your employer and let them know you have another job in-hand. Ask them to match the offer you now have. If the answer is no, or they try to sweet-talk you in any way, you know you never had a future with them, and its time to move on.

One last thing, go back for more schooling and start picking up the certifications you need to be competitive at the next level of your career. In the IT business, you can never rest on your laurels; there is always something new to learn.

You are SERIOUSLY underpaid! You should be making WAY more. They need to pony up or you need to take your skills elsewhere.

You should easily be pulling in a good solid salary and not an hourly rate.

You have got to be kidding! The janitor makes that much. I had a entry level help-desk job 15 years ago in Florida that paid $9.50/hr.

You can get a ballpark figure here:
http://salary.monster.com/
http://www.salary.com

I would start looking today.

Here in Kansas, most starting pay is around $15/hr. I think the "PT Cruiser" guys and "Best Buy Bug" guys might make a little less, but still more than $10/hr. However, for what you are doing and with two years experience, it should be in the upper teens- at least. Like some of these other guys have said- GTFO and find someone that'll pay you for the job that you are doing. And be patient- that one job may not come around next month, but it will come around. Keep trying, keep reading, keep learning, keep working. Stay positive and always highlight your accomplishments. Good luck!

One last thing- hire a professional resume writer.

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING! Those responsibilities would warrant a minimum of $20.00+ per hour. Even though I have a couple decades of experience on you, i'm approaching $40.00hr for similar duties.

i was in the exact same situation as you are. I worked at a mega car dealership in texas. i was fresh out of college and at the time it was the only thing i could find. i was well below the average IT salary and doing top notch work. I would ask for a raise every six months. and every time i was told that there is no money available for raises. i had plenty of salary surveys and other literature that justified my reasons for a raise. but finally i found another job for 30K more than i was making there. wouldn't you know it; before i quite the dealership offered to match my salary if i would stay on there.

Dealerships suck the life out of their employees. they save raises and bonuses for the sales team and managers. in order for you to get your deserved pay increase you will have to threaten to leave. Only then will they compensate you justly.

keep in mind the good work experience you are getting. also look at job postings and make sure the skills that you are learning are in line with the next job you want. when the time is right make the move to a different industry and take those valuable skills you learned with you.

There is another aspect of situations like yours. Situations like this, when allowed to continue, have a negative effect on everyone in the industry. I don't blame you; obviously you are just doing what you need to do, but allowing employers to grossly underpay for services gives other employers reason to do the same. The same is true of contractors too.

Some industry pros with a lot more experience than you have, will have their wages influenced by arguments like "the industry average is...." or "well, over at ABC-company they only pay..." or "we don't need to pay more - we don't seem to have trouble hiring people at this rate..."

See what I mean? I've heard these arguments and I firmly believe that people who are willing to work for far less than a fair wage are doing us all a dis-service. Unfortunately they are like weeds - as soon as one is gone, another pops up to take its place.

At one of my past employers (a local school district), the custodians get paid more for pushing brooms down the school halls than the I.T. guys get paid for keeping the computer systems running.

At least if you insist on being paid a fair wage commensurate with the level of work, you will not be contributing to this. It may be tough to stand your ground or move on, but it would have benefits for you personally and for all the rest of us if everyone took that stance.

I agree with all those who advise you it's time to leave. Your next choice is HOW to leave, and I urge you to do it as gracefully as possible. Before you resign, scout out where you want to go and either have a job lined up or have six months' savings to live on while you continue to search.

Write a resignation letter that thanks your boss for the opportunity you've had, acknowledges anything special that he or she has done for you, and briefly summarizes your best accomplishments on the job. Don't complain. This letter is important, because when you start job-hunting someone is going to check back to see what kind of employee you've been. They'll be interested not only in your technical skills but also in how you got along with your associates -- and a cordial letter of parting will contribute to your eventual favorable recommendation.

I have to say that I am in a simliar situation as you. I moved into the IT dept of my company as a tester and as people left and more work came in I got more responsibility. Within 6 months, I was the lead project manager and only getting paid $10.50/hr. I am now the only project manager and have more responsibility than I know what to do with.

My solution, I worked with my boss to correct the imbalance. First, worked until I was listed as full time (hourly still) but I got benefits with it that way. Second, made sure that all of the senior managers knew who I was by working on larger projects so that if my boss asked for me to get more pay, they woudln't fight. Third, asked for the option of working overtime to try and help with the pay temporarily. Fourth, asked for and received PMI training which will help me in getting PMP certified. Finally, asked for the larger raise. I wasn't able to get as much as I am worth in the market, but I was able to get more than they would give most people and since I am happy here, I think it is worth it if only temporarily. After another year or two of experience, and once I get certified, I will probably try and approach for a larger pay raise again, and if they can't do it look elsewhere, but in the meantime, those steps seemed to work great for me.

So in summary, look for the small things you can ask for that might help your situation that they might be more giving on. Remember that employers look at benefits, pay, equipment, and training as different parts of the budget and so sometimes when they won't spend for one, they might for another and if you are happy there I say keep working, you are only 20 so you probably do not have the great financial needs that a lot of other people have at this point and you are building a great resume.

I agree the wage is slim. The question is: "Are you just running a green light check replacing tape kind of thing or are you building/upgrading the system"? The phrase standard setup is the give away.

The data entry function of updating the web site is really entry level. I suspect you are not .NET coding.
75 cell phones - What replace batteries?

Are you the only one the admin passwords. That is the real leverage point. Don't get destructive or threatening. Tying to get more that 50% on a raise is a invitation to exit. Have something lined up before you make your more.

There are many sites with salary surveys that can establish guidelines and support any conversations. BE REALISTIC with yourself and what you do. Money may not be everything. Benefits, discouts, demos.... you get the idea

I work for a avaition company -
I handle 300 systems both new and old not to mention
printer/projector/some telephone problems/all hardware/ system deployment and movement/invnetory of hardware and software/help desk /user account profile and software setup etc....
its just me and a higher up the food chain tech who has to go back and forth with helping me and doing her job of out station support to our network.
I get 15 an hour and I was only hired as a Hardware systems tech - desktop and laptop repair
as for training for new skills there is none OJT -which is not bad - I give advise on servers configs to our admin and the list goes on
I have had other computer jobs none want to pay higher than 15 or 16 an hour at least where i am locatded.

before accepting the job the best idea is to research the market find out the median, and then be true to yourself where your experience places you in that median, because you will most likely put yourself lower on the scale then you actually are.

First determine two things are you really busy and are you under a lot of stress. My advice definetly ask for a raise, the more stress, the more money

If you're writing from Nigeria I have an Uncle who died recently...never mind.
In Northern CA with your responsibilities you should be making 3-4x what you're being paid now. I know the job market is tight and I would bet you LOVE your job and all that responsibilty, decision making etc. Real ego stuff. You definitely should ask for more money
and maybe wait till a server goes down to do it.
Get your money and press the RESET button. LOL
Your position should be salaried not hourly too.
Jack

Heck yes, you are worth more, probably double your rate. Build a case for your raise by putting all your accomplishments and business value in a document, and present it to your supervisor without coming across disgruntled (even though you might be). It doesn't hurt to network with people for other opportunities in the meantime. Good luck!

Dude,

The best way to go about is highlight every accomplishment, major accomplishments, uptime vs downtime, etc... Highlight and point out all positive attributes and your dedication. Then, go to dice.com or something and get a general pay to position and experience scale to get a general idea. Get your data for your position, systems and customers you serve. You want facts, data to back up your worthiness. A good relationship with your boss and owners help! Remember, smilie face!

Good luck dude, you deserve @ least, let me say it again, AT LEAST DOUBLE what you are getting.

If they can't help you, get your resume together and bounce. Someone will appreciate your talents.

I was in a similar situation not to long ago. I started with a big company as a web developer intern (high school) making $9 an hour. As time progressed my responsibilities slowly began to increase, but my hourly pay remained the same. After some complaining I got the department I worked in to hire me as a part-time employee with an increase if $2 an hour. Which at the time seemed like it was the best thing since sliced bread. As more time progressed my responsibilities began increasing more rapidly while my pay remained the same. After some more complaining I got the department to hire me as a full-time employee (not salary) with an increase of $2 an hour. I finally realized that the department I was working in was just taking advantage of the fact that I had all of this knowledge, but were not willing to pay accordingly because I started with them when I was in high school. I began looking at other companies with the same parent company for a new job. Once I found a new and had to turn in my resignation my manager at the time tried to get me to stay saying he would turn me into a full time salaried employee and give me a $15K raise. The point of all of this is don?t let people take advantage of you for what you know. It took me 5 years of dealing with my old department for me to realize that I could do better. On another note, I am happier than ever in my new job and my new boss appreciates me.

In your case, the grass is definitely greener on the other side. Your wages reflect that of a summer job of some teenager. For your skills, schooling and experience, you should be in the 25-35 $/hr range, if not more. Benchmark the salaries of similar positions and present your findings to the boss and confidently request a raise. If he doesn't oblige, then you might consider dusting off your resume and sending it out to companies that do appreciate IT personnel with your skills and knowlegde.

As a start, I'm a systems administrator over a network not a whole lot larger than yours with no telephone or camera responsibilities and I make well over $50K (in Arizona).

Also, I'm finding out that a "Jack of all Trades" is not valued as much as one who specializes in one field. You might consider specializing in one of the many responsibilities that you have. Good Luck!!!!

This will show you what you're worth in your area. Check this out!

The median expected salary for a typical Systems Administrator in Los Angeles, CA, is $74,668. This basic market pricing report was prepared using our Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies.

HR Reported data as of August 2006

Systems Administrator
25th Percentile Median 75th Percentile
Los Angeles, CA
$65,646 $74,668 $84,953
IMPORTANT: Your pay can be dramatically affected by compensable factors such as employer size, industry, employee credentials, years of experience and others.
To receive a free initial analysis or purchase your personal salary report, enter employer information and click "Next Page".

You should be making at least $22.00 per hour and probably more since you have multiple sites. Do you have any certifications? Have you taken classes for the type of work you are doing? Get a MCP at least, and get a raise, California wages are typically higher than Oregon but I don't know of anyone in Oregon that would take that pay.

It seems you are being underpaid, but having said that... you were happy to take this job together with this level of pay at the time. Yes, you have learned a lot, and your market value is increasing. But why look at what others are getting and cause yourself to become unsatisfied with what you have got, despite the opportunities you?re still getting.

Your boss is giving you the opportunity to learn and I don't hear you complaining that he is a terrible boss to work for. So why consider leaving? I have seen many people leave for the money and end up very unhappy, because of extremely high work pressure and/or poor working conditions.

Take advantage of this opportunity to get certifications that you need to get the job done well, and possibly look at certifications that are interesting for future employment. Don't forget that most certifications expire or become outdated. Ask yourself if you are prepared to invest (lots) of spare time in continuous study in order to keep your certifications current and maintain a higher market value?

I believe you should take time to have a good look at your present employment. It sounds like your boss is a nice guy, ready to give people a chance and spend money to make it happen. I am sure he knows you are underpaid, but then again... he is the one taking all the risks. Talk to him and explain that your cost of living has gone up, also because of your newly acquired knowledge and skills. It is reasonable to get compensated for inflation (about 3% annually), and if your boss agrees that you are performing well, then it is common that a boss will shows his appreciation by awarding you an additional rise in pay (3%-6%).

Of course there are stories of people whose hourly rates skyrocket in no time. But why take a risk, when there is still allot that you can benefit from this job. The security of having a job, the opportunity to increase your knowledge (while your boss is paying for the time and the training), and the freedom of your current position are truly priceless.

Once you decide that it?s time to move on and you have given your two weeks notice, then don?t look back, not even if your boss offers to give you a pay rise.

The key point that I have not seen is how much revenue do you bring your employers? The rule of thumb is that you are paid 1/3 to 1/5 the income you bring for your employer. Another way to look at it is, how much would it cost your employer to pay for the support of his equipment that you are providing now?

If you do some research, you should find that perhaps $10/hr is ok for telephony or even desktop support but not for both and especially not for website support. Another thing to keep in mind is what is the satisfaction level your employer has with your work.

Remember, if you are enjoying what you are doing, you have an advantage over someone who is paid much more but hates the work. It sounds like you are in a good learning situation to decide what part of IT you like most. It is easier to get a feel for what you like since you are working on a very broad range of support.

I have been in IT for a very long time and experience trumps training every time. Training is good, but without experience it is just theory. Ignor the diploma mills and intense boot camp type training and concentrate on doing better what you are already doing and use training to fill the gaps.

When I supported the PBX at Miller Brewing (Irwindale), I belonged to The Rolm Users Group, and through a contact there, I could have gotten a nice job in San Diego if I'd been willing to move, at a 40% increase, too.

User Groups also give you a great place to get tips on how to better do your job, as well as excellent networking. If someone is planning on leaving, they tell the group. Or if their company is adding a position. Or if their friend at their old company needs someone with your skills.

Look at Salary.com to see how much your company would have to pay in your area for your job. Try to find out how much the guy made who you replaced. Someone's got to know.

Or take a one or two week vacation without access to a phone (backpacking!), so they know how much they really need you!

It depends on the area; average salary; but I would say $25 per hour however you might consider a salaried position rather than an hourly position in negoiating? You should get annual or semi annual reviews from your supervisor and that would be the proper setting to discuss salary.

I completely agree about the training. They have taken advantage of your loyalty so now it is your turn. Take classes or certifications on THEIR dime. Finish them and BAIL. I also agree that you shouldn't burn bridges however and some companies will be rather upset with using them this way so you need to weight that risk even if you leave with a nice letter of resignation.

If you want to relocate to northern Virginia, I'll hire you right now for $25 an hour. You are not only underpaid, my friend, but I think you have a good case for an unfair wage suit.

My wife works as a classroom aide for a local elementary school and can barely use a pc. She makes about $13 an hour.

As for a raise, and if you end up leaving, let them *try* to find someone else for even twice what they're paying you now.

Yes sir. I think you are right. Our friend has gotten a lot of support here. Isn't that great!

I would say you are doing yeoman's work for minimal pay, but do you enjoy it? If you enjoy it and the working condition, the people don' bust your cahones too bad, then stay with it. Jobs are a luxury these day. I would mention overtime and a bonus around end of the year. Good luck!
Tom

If admins are a dime a dozen in the area, it doesn't matter how much you would make somewhere else.

If the market is doing good, then a good admin is in more demand and you have to raise the wage to attract and keep them.

You should start putting in your resume at other places. There is no way they are going to bump your wage up to what you think it is worth, and would be lucky to get a 10% raise. They have gotten the work done at this wage for a long time, they will just have the next guy do it. After all, how hard can computers be? Just sit around and push a bunch of buttons, right? :D

Sorry, but unless you get killer deals on cars and other benifits, your only good move is to go somewhere else.

I have even seen places that GIVE the big raise and then bring in an assistant to help, getting you to train your own replacement.
[b]
I would stay quiet until you get another offer, and then give your current employer the opportunity to match the wage if you would rather stay there. THAT is the only way you will get the wage you deserve.

The first thing that I would do would be to list in detail all of the functions that you perform daily, weekly, monthly. You could use this as a base job description if one does not exist. I would then talk to my manager and walk him/ her through these functions. Based on that I would ask that my salary be reviewed in order to appropriately compensate you for the work being done. In addition, I would also do some research to show what the regional/ national pay is for this type of position.

I'd try and lure you to the beautiful Pacific Northwest for at least double what you are earning now.

Don't bother trying to get a raise from a dealership. (My wife works in testing for one of the largest dealership software firms and I've heard some of the stories about their clients.)

I would agree with those that have advised you to get all the certification you can. Document what you know. It will go a long way towards getting you the salary you deserve.

Best of luck.

.. just some moral support. I just found out from salary.com I should be making about 3x what I make now for what I do. But I already knew that, really. I'm 21, and I am married, but no kids. I put up with it because I like the people I work for. And, it's a family-owned business - nobody's becoming independantly wealthy here - but the culture makes up for it. I know I'm not going to be downsized or outsourced or micro-managed. I'm on first-name basis with the CEO. But I'm definately working towards more certs, and more class time. So, I just kind of wanted to give you an "I feel you, brother" and let you know the your thread and the wisdom contained therein is a help to more than just you =)

how happy are you where you're at. I'd have to agree that you should be making atleast a bit more, i'm making 17 an hour and my responsibilities are mainly active directory and exchange. and i have about the same amount of experience as you. but i like where i'm at, its a great opportunity for me to gain more experience and certifications. market value says i should be making twice what i make now but i'm content with where i'm at. that the biggest factor. if your happy there stick it out... milk out the other benefits of the place like getting them to pay for your certs and training... then in another year or two be like hey i got all these extra credentials why dont ya pay me a bit more and give them an exact figure of what you think you should be making, but dont be rediculous in your amount....

Wish you the best of luck

Here is how you approach the matter. First, you write out everything that you do in a formal job description. Then you get your boss to sign off saying that that is your job description. Armed with that, you then look out on the web (there are several government employment websites that post average salaries for positions) and find the closest match. Bring that information back to your boss and ask him to give you a raise to the industry average (adjusted for your cost of living).

Just based on what you gave me, you should be getting at least twice what you are ($20-$25/hr at a minimum).

PS. Although you say that you are getting $10/hr, are you defined as a salaried or as an hourly employee? By law, if you are hourly, if you are called in, they have to pay you overtime pay for any hours in excess of 40 per week you work. If they refuse and take a hard line, report them to the Fair Labor Standards office in your area. Failure to comply with Federal Wage requirements can get their entire business fined and shut down.

I dont know what the market out in Chico for an IT is, but you are not even getting pay for what an IT assistant makes. QUIT...QUIT

I am in a similar position (in terms of responsibility scope) & I make nearly $40K in a VERY small town. You're WAY underpaid & I'd either demand a major raise based on current It salaray benchmarks (the fact that you're technically a Systems Administrator), & that you're doing work way above your payscale. If they refuse, go for another job. It's not worth working for peanuts when you could be making real money. I mean, I'm hiring for a tech position & will be paying them a starting wage of $12.50 per hour - they're just going to be a PC tech.

thanks

with 2 years experience you can pretty well demand quite a bit more compensation. Sounds like you are the jack of all IT trades at your company. Did you find out how much the last tech was getting? And you live in Calf. where it just cost more to live. I will not leave my house for less than 20 + miles and expense. Take your skills and logngevity and walk.

I work in a credit union in IT. The tellers here start at $10.00 per hour. Your way underpaid and from reading the other posts here I believe you've been given some pretty good advice. I think you need to move on, training first or right now.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true. We're talking about 2 years of experience with customized systems, little to no formal education. Barring finding a job with someone else using similar hardware, there's not going to be a great market to compare the position to. JMO, of course. Do I think $10 an hour is fair? Not really--but it doesn't sound to me like the job was competitively filled, but rather, extra duties tacked on to an existing position. I'd have a sit down with the boss and ask where he/she thinks your position is heading, and if the admin position is to be filled. If he says no, then you have a perfect chance to ask if all the duties have been assigned to you, and if so, ask that this be documented in your position description, and your pay be adjust accordingly.

The problem I see is that you asked for the additional duties, without worrying about the pay. Most likely, the job description for your position does NOT include all the extra stuff. So, if you quit, it's unlikely that anyone contacting this place to determine if you have the skills needed is going to get much support. Since the training that you do have is system specific, it's going to be a challenge to sell yourself to someone else.

These (former auto dealer) guys know what they are talking about. They are absolutely right!

There is no future for you at an auto dealership company unless you want to be a salesman or a top flight auto mechanic (engine rebuilder). And, like any other career, you have to love that kind of work.

Asking for a raise is not going to get you anywhere worthwhile. You need to be working in IT for a different kind of company (as described elsewhere in this thread).

All the best...

you're under pay. find a better job and move on. The next company you can expect them to pay you very well with the experience you have.

You have made no mention of your qualifications. Are you certified by Microsoft, Cisco, HP???
That would help me to get the whole scenario.

You have made no mention of your qualifications. Are you certified by Microsoft, Cisco, HP???
That would help me to get the whole scenario.

I agree with what most of the other posters are
saying: you are underpaid and working for the
wrong employer. However, at this stage I think
you need to step back and take a longer-term
perspective on where you expect to be five, ten,
and twenty years down the road.

Generally speaking, for long-term career success
in the IT world, you need to build up a resume
that shows significant depth in at least one of
two key areas: technical skills or domain-specific
knowledge of an industry.

In your case, you have learned the day-to-day
administration of various technologies for a
car dealership. Now you need to decide, does
the technology or the industry look like where
you want to put your focus? Do you see yourself
becoming a high-level technical guru, or do you
see yourself moving up the management food chain
in the auto industry?

If you want to focus on the business side, then
you should seek advice from people who have
experience in your industry -- which ain't me,
I spend as little time as I can in car dealers
by getting a late-model used Toyota in good
condition every six or seven years and giving
it regular maintenance.

If you want to focus on the technical side, then
you need to gain by whatever means are available
to you the equivalent of a BS in Computer Science.
Technology changes constantly, so any IT career
will entail lifelong learning. However, such
learning will be far more successful for you if
you have a deep understanding of some fundamental
principles.

Fortunately, MIT has made available much of
the content of their program, so by looking
over the following you can get a reasonably good
idea of what that would entail:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-046JFall-2005/LectureNotes/index.htm

This is probably the most fundamental
course Computer Science has. Languages come and
go, operating systems come and go, fads come
and go. I've seen many changes since I first
learned programming with punch cards in Fortran,
but most of the algorithms underneath are the
same -- new discoveries in algorithms and new
fundamental data structures happen quite
rarely.

A good course in algorithms and data structures
at most colleges will cover approximately the
same content as this MIT course. However, at
most institutions they will be much less
rigorous: at MIT they like to prove everything
from first principles, whereas most places the
prof will summarize the conclusions without
proving everything -- and will certainly not
expect the student to demonstrate the proofs
on exams.

It sounds like you are definately underpaid for the work you do. I agree with other suggestions that you should be making about three times what you do now. Before doing anything rash, for now I would ask for $15 an hour plus full benefits (medical, dental, etc) plus vacation time. Since you are valuable to that organization, you should be paid accordingly.

In the meantime, I would look for other work as well, keeping your options open. Sometimes the grass is not always greener on the other side of the hill.

Lastly, if you have spare time, why not try to get a degree as well? I would attend a reputable business or technology program (online if you need) and at least earn your associates degree. Then you really could earn that $40k/year salary.

duplicate post

try to look for a part time job that pays more first. let your company feel that you need an additional income. sometimes company would let go when you turn in your resignation papers. sometimes it is also hard to get a new job. ask for a commendation letter. if ask by your boss, tell her you are applying for a part time job. you will have better options once you get a second job. there are always good ways to ask for a raise nicely. you dont want to end up jobless so be careful. genentech is a biomed company. always hiring IT with starting $20+/hr. they would pay for your certification too. good luck.

I am the Technology Manager for a dealership chain myself.

In the car business the only way for support staff to get an increase in pay is to either walk or find there dirty laundry.

I have just gotten a raise myself by walking for a higher salary whereas they countered with an equivalent amount. I did have another job offer to back myself up.

Make sure if you threaten to leave that it is not an idle threat.

If you do want to leave, let me know. I am looking for a tech (It pays more than you make now) who will eventually move up to a management position as we grow.

Beachhead is making $10 per hour, is smart, has got a great work ethic, has got a great attitude, is loyal, is single, is only 20 years old, and has 2 years of professional experience. How long do you really think that someone like that will take to find another $10 per hour job? One day? Two days?

Your advice is not without merit, but a bunch of it just does not apply to Beachhead. If someone would be quickly heading for bankruptcy if he lost his job, has a huge mortgage, a wife, children, and lots of other debt, and no savings, then there might be something to worry about. None of that applies to Beachhead.

The further advice to Beachhead would be: Navigate through your life so that by the time you are 40 years old, you have saved your "f*ck you" money (don't say it, just be ABLE to say it). Ensure you're not under anyone's thumb. Then, there is nothing to be fearful and powerless about.

It's a corollary of Murphy's Law.

Murphy's Law: If it can go wrong it will go wrong.

TechExec's Law #1: If you have a weakness, they will ALWAYS take advantage of it.

TechExec's Law #2: If you don't have a weakness, they will play it straight with you.

Things get really honest really fast when you have no handles on you for them to take advantage of. If they want you, and you have no handles on you, you will get what YOU want. If they don't, you will quickly know that and skip all of the bullsh*t and wasted time.

netheadsp: I hope you get the handles off you...soon. Good luck!

P.S. Pretty egotistical naming a law after myself. Sorry. :-)

I think it's time to post your resume, you are no longer concidered entry level and after 2 years of dedicated service almost in a full IT Directors position, you should be offered a package and an office. 45-60K is reasonable particularly if you are on call on the weekends.

Bruce Turner

I am the sole IT person at my company, with a title of Director, MIS. I support my group, other people affiliated with the owners in my suite, a major 330 room hotel, and 2 assisted living facilities owned by the same people, but a seperate company. I have my Associates in Computer Technolgy and am MCP certified working on MCSE. I have been here almost 5 years, and after asking for a salary review this past January, I was raised to $40,040 a year. The work I do at the assisted living facilities is not being charged by my company (hotel group), nor am I receiving aseperate check as a "contractor". i have gone to my boss' house during business hours to set up his kids computer and games to be given cookies for my work. I set up a domain WAN network that was much needed, I also maintain 5 other servers, support over 150 workstations, maintain 3 websites, am on call 24/7 for the hotel, do all of the training, and deal with 3rd party vendors in any new hardware or software aquired. I have applied to other jobs only to lose out because I was not related to somebody. I am a tad frustrated at this but there is a silver lining in this dark cloud in that i am gaining a lot of hands on experience, that hopefully should prevail over someone with paper certifications and no experience. I suggest gaining as much knowledge as you can, and see ifyou can get your employer to assist you in taking more classes to improve your skills and education, then if you want to find a better paying job it helps to have that education and experiance already behind you. By the way, anyone need an experienced tech in the Raleigh, NC area, give me a buzz!!

I have my BS in Computer Science from Illinois but lack the experience. I was unable to get a job related to my degree and interests out of school so I went back to work for the large mortgage company I worked for during the summer after my junior year. After three years I quit since I didn't like seeing my life being wasted before my eyes (yes I tried moving within the company). Finally after nearly a year I have the kind of job I should have had out of college. Finally some experience. Even with my degree it was difficult to get interviews and find a job without experience! even with a decent 3.5 GPA. Well I graduated May 2002 so that explains some of it.

My advice also is to move to a new company. Don't quit until you have the new job in the bag. I had the money when I quit for a period of unemployment but I still think it was a bad decision on my part. Don't listen to the people that say you should get $50-60K. This is still a tough time in the tech employment market, many people are still looking for a job or are underpaid or don't work in positions they should. My new job is $35K, maybe that is a target for you. You should be making more in any case.

PS. What do others think of my $35K in my situation?

That sounds odd to me. BSCS I know. Was that the real name of your degree and major? Maybe it was MIS degree in a school of Business?