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NetBEUI and TCP/IP

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by nettek 2 views

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Two common problems that often appear in the Q&A are browsing problems and name resolution problems on a TCP/IP network. Inevitably, someone will recommend the addition of the NetBEUI protocol as a solution. While it is true that adding NetBEUI is aquick and simple solution that resolves numerous browsing and name resolution problems, it goes against everything I've ever read or been taught. I often wonder if people pass this information in the Q&A simply to get a few points, or if they truly believe that it is the best solution.

I am a firm believer that the fewer protocols there are on a network, the better the network runs. I also know that the NetBEUI protocol is extremely inefficient and creates a significant amount of network traffic. If set up properly, and that is the key, a TCP/IP network should not have any browsing and name resolution problems. If a network is having such problems, I believe that the first avenue of approach should be to search for a software configuration or a hardware problem. Adding the NetBEUI protocol should be a last resort. And even then I would limit its use to only small peer-to-peer networks with Win 9x clients.

Does anyone agree or disagree with my philosophy? And along those same lines, what do you do when you see an answer posted to someone's question that you are positive is incorrect? Do you let it go, or do you politely make the poster aware?

15 replies

by lordinfidel

The fewer protocols the better.

You should, in a fairly recent OS network, be able to get away with only tcp/ip.

The problems arises with older clients, WFW, win95, that are relying on that protocol as it's underlying transport method for browsing services.

But in 95 you can install client for microsoft networks, and remove windows logon family, keep only the tcp/ip protocol and you should be able to interact better.

Also remember, netbeui is not routable. So if you need to go out to the net or across subnets you won't be able to. Only the systems on that segment will be able to talk to each other using netbeui.

Netbeui for me, personnaly, is never even a consideration when I build out a network. Even in a peer-to-peer. Even with only 2 clients. tcp/ip is the only protocol that should be used.

As far as the postings, you are in the same quagmire (?) that alot of us are in. Just let it slide off. What may seem right to you or I is not for someone else. Even ifwe have travelled down the same path. I sometimes will reitarate what I had said before if I see the person's reasoning as flawed. But that is just me. And never be afraid to admit when your wrong.

by matric

When I was first learning how to network, I was instructed to use NetBEUI for my File / Print Sharing and TCP/ IP for my Internet Sharing. Nothing but problems with that set up. Now I changed my set up and it hasn't ever been more reliable, faster and more secure. TCP / IP is the way to go!

by qballrail

Agreed, fewer protocols ARE better. Less garbage to clog up the plumbing. However, I dispute your claim that a simple network will interact better without NETBEUI.

When setting up my home network, TCP/IP alone will not allow the PC's to talk to each other. Although Internet access is not at stake, if you intend to do more than just internet connection sharing, NETBEUI for 9x or IPX/SPX in NTFS platforms are crucial! Just for clarification, Client for Microsoft Networks is existent in the protocol's installed listing.

Therefore, unless there is another configuration, in my experience, NETBEUI needs to be installed for computers to communicate on a simple network. Note, the application I am referring to is a peer-to-peer with internet connection sharing.

by ebob

...and I can do all the file and print sharing I care to do. No NetBEUI. So I woulkd conclude that NetBEUI is not "essential".

That being said, this should not become a "what is the 'best' protocol" discussion. Since that cannot be answered.

'Best' is necessarily defined as 'that which provides the required services'. And in some cases, multiple network protocols are required.

by admin

It's kind of interesting to try and figure out what criteria different people assign to the idea of a "Right" answer in this field.
Seems like there are a lot of ways to get a result, but do we rate it by technical purity, cost effectiveness, time efficiency, long range solution, short term solution or the angle of the dangle?

by ebob

1 - Absolutely - the fewer network protocols the better (generally). Laying on NetBEUI to solve the problems described will work, but it is not a real solution. (And as with L.I., I build even the smallest of networks with TCP/IP only, unless there is a good reason for doing otherwise.)

Which brings us to...

2 - As with real life itself, there is often a world of difference between an approach that works, and a real solution.

I'm sure we all have war stories from Q&A where a poster hasrejected our "right" answers because they weren't what the poster wanted to hear, and often accepted another answer that might work (for a little while), but wasn't really "right".

For example...

by epepke

Oddly enough, I have gotten more quick network fixes by removing NetBEUI than by adding it!

Of course, I agree with your philosophy. Not only do networks work better with the minimum number of protocols (but no fewer), but I also have very little trust in the resolution software running on a single machine.

by ronbrown1

I would like to suggest from experience in growing networks that the statements of Lord and Zen need a tad re-inforcement when it comes to NetBEUI. In particular pay heed to the non-routability of this protocol. Helper statements on interfaces andother stuff still make it a special purpose protocol with very constricting rules in anything but a one segment LAN, or maybe a bridged LAN. Someone ought to tell Bill and his NIC Card Stack specialists!

by admin-stuart

Concerning posting corrections to other's suggestions, it depends on the severity of the incorrect advice. If I believe I see it leading to a software or hardware meltdown or something frying, I feel obligated to respond. However, most of the incorrect posts are the fairly harmless "throw it against the wall and see how much of if it sticks" type and I leave them alone.

by kevand

I haven't heard of methods of troubleshooting browsing problems when TCP/IP is in use. My mapped network drives show red "X"'s on them often and when I download files to those drives I get an error message stating the drive isn't available although it still saves it properly. How do you diagnose and fix browsing problems?

by nettek

I have never had a browsing problem that I could not resolve on a TCP/IP network. Problem areas usually involve improperly configured WINS servers, corrupt WINS databases, too many WINS servers, multi-homed WINS, mutli-homed browsers, having file and print sharing enabled on a Win9x PC and not turning off the browse master capability, presence of an unwanted LMHOSTS file, improperly configured LMHOSTS files, are just a few areas to look. MSKB is always a great place to start. It is full of information about browsing problems.

by chris_beegle

Don't believe the hype. That doesn't solve your problem! There is a simple solution to IP related issues.

Most of the issues that people experience are with WINS.

Proper WINS configuration can resolve almost all browsing issues.

Other resource kit utilites including nltest, browstat will also help.

type "net config rdr" to get transport info.
browstat view NetBT_Tcpip_{2342....}

You can force elections if you are having browsing issues.

Under win2k if you have the adminpak(%systemroot%\system32\adminpak.msi) loaded
run the following command
netsh wins server \\servername show name name=dommain_name endchar=1C

Will list all of the DC's in a domain.

by qballrail

Ok, we've established that fact already. Now, how does one get a peer-to-peer network to talk to each other ONLY over TCP/IP. I have a simple peer-to-peer with high speed internet sharing running W2K. Both have TCP/IP, Client for MS Networks and NetBEUI. Most techs in this area agree that NetBEUI must be installed to enable both computers to communicate. HOW do you get TCP/IP to work alone? I have unbound it from Client for MS Networks.. what next?

by ebob

What's next depends on what's not working for you. Like a lot of have said, we actually do have our networks running on TCP/IP, alone.

Can you PING other computers on your LAN? (Of course.)

Can you share 'resources'? If not, how are you trying to connect (i.e., using IP address, or NetBIOS name, or DNS name, or ...)? If you're using NetBIOS name then you may have to tell your PCs to use TCP/IP as the transport for NetBIOS.

My home network is a mix of Win2K/98/ME (yuck)/ and XP and allof these boxes can access shares on each other. And all I have is TCP/IP. Frankly, I didn't "do" anything special to get it running that way, either.

My W2K and XP boxes let me install just TCP/IP. And on the 98/ME boxes I just went in and removed the protocol. And it all just worked.

Anybody else got any specific "tips" to get this running, or does it "just work" for you, too.

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