Discussion Locked

Direct From TechProGuild

0 helpful
930 replies
Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

This is page 5 of the discussion. Read the opening post

930 replies

by steve.davis

The "answer" has been posted on a few sites and has to do with a failure of a DLL to recognize the text as Unicode or not.

It seems to be linked to starting the sentence with lowercase "th" and making it exactly 18 bite long, any more or less or starting with anything other than "th" makes it "work" right.

Interesting.

by luc_andre

I am one of those Laptop users you mentioned and you are so right. Losing a large portion of your hardrive for the new OS is pretty unintelligent. The hardware requirements are overblown and as mentioned in this article, what's the point when we can achive the user interface without the ridiculous requirements?

Also, after using the beta for two days I got rid of it and put XP back on. Sorry to say but I felt the usability of Vista too dumbed down for your average IT person. And with all the changes I make on my system on a regular basis, that confirmation pop-up was tiring.


I'm going to stick to XP until I *must* switch OS, and will have a little fun with this little utility to make my XP look like Vista. (I was tiring of the MacOSX theme I had going..... for those interested, check out flyakiteOS theme)

by shadowdao

I am not even going to start with how rediculious this post was, and how all these people that know nothing of how the software industry works, feel the need to make thier predictions known.  I am telling you, being a person that is both in college (Computer Science/Network Security; Major Business Minor) and working in sales, Macs are here for the long run, and your going to start seeing alot more of them.  I have had over 50 mac mini systems leave the store for one government facility, and many others are following suit for thier workstations.  The big advantage that Winodws running on mac does for these places is that there are programs, that were written for Windows, that will not work on mac OS, either cause the user used a Windows only language, thus not leaving an option for mac support, or the company just saw no reason to provide support for the mac OS.  Also, what I am seeing as a trend in the mac sales in my store at least is that, people will buy the mac version of a software over staying with the PC version, either due to thier version being older, or they just simply love that fact that when they are working if something crashes or hangs, it is far less likely to take thier work taken with it.  Home that want to run Windows, tend to be gamers, and what is funny is the 20" IMac handles games better out of the box then ANY of my desktop PCs in store.  And thats with the standard graphics card and the standard 512mb of ram. Anyway I got off on a side tangent, but the point still remains, the Mac OS is not going away. One more thing, the current Macs are "Vista Ready". When ever Vista is released.

by aaron a baker

My own system is as follows.

 
 

2.00 gigahertz AMD Athlon XP
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
256 kilobyte secondary memory cache

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. A7V880 Rev 1.xx
Bus Clock: 166 megahertz
BIOS: American Megatrends Inc. 1007.005 09/24/2004
Drives   Memory Modules c,d
81.61 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
58.00 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8527B [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

Maxtor 2B020H1 [Hard drive] (20.49 GB) -- drive 2, s/n B1DPWQJE, rev WAH21PB0, SMART Status: Healthy
Maxtor 6E040L0 [Hard drive] (33.82 GB) -- drive 1, s/n E1CM87FE, rev NAR61590, SMART Status: Healthy
WDC WD200EB-00CSF0 [Hard drive] (20.02 GB) -- drive 0,  WD-WMAAV2966838, rev 04.01B04, SMART Status: Healthy

  2048 Megabytes Installed Memory

Slot 'DIMM0' has 512 MB (serial number SerNum0)
Slot 'DIMM1' has 512 MB
Slot 'DIMM2' has 512 MB
Slot 'DIMM3' has 512 MB

  Local Drive Volumes
 
c: (on drive 0) 20.01 GB 15.68 GB free
d: (on drive 1) 20.56 GB 15.41 GB free
e: (on drive 1) 20.55 GB 17.14 GB free
f: (on drive 2) 20.49 GB 9.77 GB free

 
 
What I did was move my information off the last Hard drive
Maxtor 20, formatted it and the installed the Vista.
Man what a night's work.
Once installed, I can now say the following.
Althoug it got a Nice Framing, I loath the menus.
I particularly resent the way I cannot hit my Windows Explorer as I do in my XPPro and see the entire computer, drives and all.
In Vista you can't make a move withought it asking your permission, verifying and then letting your through.
What a PAIN.

Especially when you consider that I'm the only Admin listed.
There is no question  that is has beautiful scenery, but the usual Microsoft "Screw ups are still there.
As you read my specs, you will note that I have the very latest in the NVidia line of AGP VGA Cards and "All" I was allowed to do is put in the Drivers, just barely.
It refuses to recognize my SB live value 5.1,    I can't even get it to load the drivers.
It doesn't even recognize that the Card is there.
So I have no sound.
With the Mother board, you get a Disk with all the Drivers.
Well It need USB Ports and when I tried to get it to seek them on the CD it wouldn't do it.
It won't even recognize my own built in USB ports.
And I've only just begun.
It wouldn't allow me to put in my Norton,2005.
You get the feeling that they have designed it to lock everybody non-Microsoft, out.

 
But what I hate the most,if you try to use the Windows Explorer the way we do in XP. [I use it to clean out the system before Defrag} It won't let you.
Which bring's up another point. I like to see things being done.
So when I Defrag, I want a little more than a little blue circle telling me that it may take from a few minutes to a few HRS to Defrag.
I am not alt all happy with the menu Structure at all. From the Menus I should be able to go anywhere, see everything.Especially as an Admin.
In VISTA, you are relegated to your own little corner and allowed nothing else.
If I want to see my Hard Drives, I have to hit My Computer where upon they show the drives and then double click to see what is on the individual drive.
These are only a few of the problem, I was too busy trying to find my way around the Microsoft Loop.
So I must admit, for all it Panoramic View,so far, I'm not impressed at all.

Well, I like the taskbar and the Panorama. 

 
PS Not to mention 9 1/2 hrs to download it, then turn it into an NRG file and Burn it.
I even bought a DVD R/W for the occasion, now I'm glad about the DVD R/W 
 
I can only say that it seem to be a ix of both sides of the cong of good and bad.
Right now, the bad outweighs al the good, at least for me.
Thank God that XPPro is going to be around for a long time yet.
It may not be as pretty, but it works the way I want it to {Most of the time} Hee.hee.
That's just the beginning.
I have not yet begun to dig.
Let's see what else we can come up with.
But still love the View

Warmest Regards
Aaron

by robocso

The PC is superior to
the Mac in every way because of the wide support base and well-funded research and
while lovers of the Mac have their place in the sun if you deviate from the
herd the predators get you.  

Apple overpriced the
Mac from day one and have only themselves to blame that it never became a mainstream
option for the average computer user. 
All you Macophiles, drink your cool aid that you?ve been handing out all
the years and throw your hammers at the nearest PC screen so that the rest of
us can compute in peace knowing that Microsoft is looking after us. 

The Redmond cool aid looks way tastier than the old
stuff from Apple anyway, cheers.

CyLex

by rlevick

I've been hearing about Apple's imminent demise for fifteen years now. Last time I looked, they posted record sales. Mac people are excited about running Windows on their hardware because there certain are applications that are OS specific. The dual OS machine allows you to perform the Windows specific tasks, and do the majority of your computing with the Apple OS. That way you don't have to worry about the Windows OS becoming hopelessly corrupted because you opened an e-mail, surfed the internet, or connected to a network that is speading viruses. When the Windows partition becomes useless, it can be reimaged without losing your valuable data, because you kept it on the Mac partition. If Apple stopped making an OS, where would Windows get ideas for their new OS (take a look at Vista)? The prediction of Apple's death is premature, again.

by mordacity

It's not just the string length and "th", because 'this man will show' doesn't produce the same results.

As far as quirks.. try making a new folder called 'con'

by j sheesley

Well, as the old saying goes, ?All good things must come to
an end.?  Such as it is with my Lenovo
ThinkPad Tablet PC.  Today I packed up
the trusty little Tablet PC and shipped it back to Lenovo.

Ever since I saw Lenovo debut it at TechEd 2005 last year, I was
looking forward to seeing an actual unit go through its paces. Initially, I was
disappointed with the unit?s performance, but after
overcoming those problems, the machine worked like a charm.

Compared to some other Tablet PCs we?ve had come through the
office so far, the Lenovo was the best of the bunch. It?s just the right size with
all of the right features. By putting the traditional solid ThinkPad quality
into a Tablet PC form factor the X41 Tablet PC was a winner.

If you?ve never used a Tablet PC before, it?s easy to dismiss
the concept as being kind of silly. However, now that I?ve been kicking one
around for several months, it?s going to be hard to go back to a regular
laptop.  One thing I?ll have to learn not
to do is to reflexively twist the screen and lay it back as soon as I lift the
lid.  That will take a little bit of
retraining for sure, but I doubt I?ll try to do it more than once.  

by mrtgrady

I'd never give up my TravelMate unless it's for another Tablet PC - I've come to prefer this way of working so much that when I joined my new company and they offered me a laptop to use I told them not to bother and promptly opened up my Acer.

Needless to say all the clients, suppliers and solution partners who see it are intrigued and often jealous. Now I just need to convince the management of how really useful these things really are and get them to start investing in them - shame they just splashed out on a bunch of Dell laptops, though ...

by hutchigw

I tried the Notepad quirk above, but did not get boxes, I got Chinese text below:

桴獩愠灰挠湡戠敲歡

When I opened the file using MS Word, the original text was restored.

by leoofmars

One of the folks in my department tried this and got chinese characters instead.

I tried. That is interesting and weird.

I got ?桴獩愠灰挠湡戠敲歡? instead of a string of boxes.

by jmontgomery

Like George said, It was absolutely intentional. That, my friends, is called an easter egg. How fun!

by nicknielsen

Of course you can't create a folder named CON.  CON already exists; it's the designator for output to the CONsole (screen).  PRN (default printer) and NUL (bit bucket) are the other two I remember.   These and many other leftovers from the DOS days (and mainframes before that) are why every IT tech needs to know basic DOS operation.

by nicknielsen

mordacity...

You can't create a folder named CON because CON already exists.  It's the designator for output to the CONsole (screen).  PRN (default printer) and NUL (bit bucket) are the other two I remember.   Those DOS leftovers will get you in trouble if you don't know about them

by nicknielsen

mordacity...

You can't create a folder named CON because CON already exists.  It's the designator for output to the CONsole (screen).  PRN (default printer) and NUL (bit bucket) are two other destinations I remember.   Those DOS leftovers will get you in trouble if you don't know about them

by gopap1

Well, I think this is most intresting:

1.) Open an empty notepad file
2.) Type "Bush hid the facts" (without the quotes)
3.) Save it as whatever you want.
4.) Close it, and re-open it.

Intresting!  isn?t it?

by suzitech

The Babelfish translation of the Chinese "this app can break" phrase comes to : 桴 □the worried thoughts ash 挠 □□knocks □ (simplified Chinese)

In traditional Chinese: 桴 獩 □the ash □湡戠 knocks happy

"Bush hid the facts" came back as : □□□touches □□reflects picks □

Maybe it's hidden poetry, like the Mac hacker poetry :)

 

by wdmilner

Out of curiousity I tried it using Notebook on a WIn98SE machine I have
here - it doesn't break at all for either "this app can break" or "Bush
hid the facts" so it appears to be specific to the newer version.

by j sheesley

I?ve been kicking around Beta 2 of Vista for a few weeks now.
Now that this beta includes video drivers that support the workstation in the
TechRepublic Test Lab, it?s been a much more enjoyable experience.  It still
leaves much to be desired, but Microsoft still has a few months left before
it pushes the shipping date back again?. Er ah? 
I mean work the bugs out.

I came very close to writing another blog complaining about
disappointment I?ve had with Vista?s performance on that PC.  The computer is lightning fast when running
XP, but is a dog under Vista.  And I?ve
been able to get many
Vista features running under XP by using third party and Microsoft tools.

So what made me decide to NOT go on a Vista Performance
Rant?  Ed Bott.  Specifically a blog that Ed Bott posted on
ZDNet a few months ago that pointed out, quite rightly, that every version of Windows has been a
bloated pig
.

It?s not Microsoft bashing by any means. Think about any
version of Windows ? Windows 1.0 thru XP. Whenever the operating system first
shipped, you would hear major complaints about what a dog it was. A couple of
hardware generations later, and then the operating system would become
tolerable. It was just a matter of waiting until Intel caught up with Microsoft.

Naturally, this relationship always created the appearance of
collusion. The moniker ?Wintel? has long been associated with the
Microsoft/Intel relationship because the apparent symbiotic relationship between
the two.

So? What do we do? One of two things as far as I can tell. First,
we can wait until we finally get Quad Core CPUs from Intel and AMD. Secondly,
we can lobby Microsoft that when they?re creating new operating systems that
they allow programmers to only use 486-based PCs. Then maybe we?d get something
tolerable.  

by aaron a baker

I'm beta testing Vista right now and have been for a couple of weeks.

I find it refreshing in that the menus "For once" don't look disproportionate to the rest of the system. The visuals are absolutely stunning and you can easily see that there is craftsmanship involved here. The big Problem I have is the same one I've always had with Microsoft, their menu structure. Frankly, it's lousy, always has been. Win 98,98Sec Ed,Millenium,now XPPro, I find these abhorrent

They don't look good, they are out of whack , i.e.  a Programs folder with icons as loose ends at the bottom when they should be in their own proper folders also. The same with accessories, you get a few folders and the rest are Icons, i.e.loose ends.

I don't know who the genius is that thought this up but he should definitely get back to the drawing  board and try to think of the user.

I like everything to be Neat and tidy most especially in my menus. I hate a cluttered Desktop. I have nothing on there.

If I have a filling cabinet, I don't like loose files between the folders. Same thing here and we're still getting this from Microsoft.

This so far is my Biggest beef.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in love with Vista,  {I never thought I'd say that}  :8} , but the fact remains that they must start thinking of the public and the users and not the MS Image. Their menu structure is a disaster and that just for openers.

In Vista, you can't even use the "Windows" Explorer in the proper way. i.e. Seeing your entire computers Drives folders and all as in XPPro. Something every accepted Admin should have the right to do.

So I'll close in saying that so far, "In my opinion", the good far outweighs the bad and I just love it's response.

I just feel that it could be far more orderly and above all, when an Admin signs in, ALL the doors should open, not just a cubby hole.

Thank for your attention.

Regards

Aaron

by nico baggus

I think management and testers should work on 486 PC's.
Developers testbeds should also be, by all means use the latest & greatest
for compiling. Otherwise they probably can push back the release date a couple of years...
(OTOH, maybe programmers learn to do their job right in the first place
they have time to think about security along with features etc.
Y're right after all, all MS employees should work on 486....)

by ivefallen

What do I think?  I think I'm going to unsubscribe from Sheeshley's newsletters.  3 out of every 4 is nothing but Microsoft hate-mail. 

by g.hight

The comment about having Microsoft use a 486 as a base has some merit.

Each time a new Microsoft OS comes out it drives the hardware business...

UP.  Memory and CPU requirements seem to double.  But, is that not

part of the Wintel story?  I would like, as others have articulated, to see

Microsoft write efficiently and not have such blotted code.  Just because

the cost of hardware is "reasonable" does not mean that everyone wants

to, or can afford to, buy new equipment every 2 years.

by alxnsc9

Dear author,
The quotation following is taken from the link on slow Windows performance. "It was just a matter of waiting until Intel caught up with Microsoft."
That is it. Everyone has to adapt himself to Microsoft... Hardware manufacturers have to invest money and time to let MS software function with user bareble speed. Not software is created for the machines - machines are created for MS software... Well, that is why MS software is worst dealing with processors, memory and periphery. The rest is OK, namely: 640k and hard disk capacity barriers, memory (physical and virtual) fragmentation, hard disc fragmentation, BSODs, perfect manuals, restarts, cool sites, etc. By the way, I remember their Pascal-like MASM, BASIC-like FORTRAN, etc. I remember the Works package thrown away as the end user have had the posibility to create a simple application himself and, even after all these showdowns a mentor book about speedy business - how all the havoc is to be done.
Stop it please. Enough is enough! Hardware builders do not have to catch up with MS, but just to catch it and throw away.

by apotheon

At a guess, I'd say that what's probably going on is this: Notepad is translating the text "this app can break" into a message in Chinese Unicode, whether intentionally or as an Easter egg (I can imagine some conditions under which it might misinterpret something as intended to be Chinese using Unicode). The reason it shows up as boxes on some systems would have something to do with missing support for Chinese Unicode in the font and/or on the system you're using for Notepad (probably related to the font package version on your Windows system, which might in turn be related to the minor release version of the Windows OS itself).

Since I don't have a bunch of Windows systems lying around to test it, however, that's all just idle speculation.

by j sheesley

As I mentioned in a recent
post, I was excited when I saw that Novell had finally turned a profit for
the previous quarter. Sadly it looks like not everyone was happy about it.

Novell?s board of directors recently
decided to replace
both the CEO, Jack Messman, and the CFO of the company. Jack Messman took over
from Dr. Eric Schmidt, who took over the reigns at Google a few years ago.

Messman had his work cut out for him.
While trying to milk the last dime out of the NetWare cash cow, he had to
quickly get the SuSe Chameleon producing money by attempting to build a
services company out of a free operating system. Clearly, it was a huge
challenge. Now, Novell?s new CEO Ron Hovsepian has those duties.

Of course, Novell?s not alone in the
C-level Shuffle. Microsoft has gone through the
same thing
, and has the 2-year Long Goodbye from Bill Gates to contend
with.  

When a company changes a CEO,
major changes occur shortly thereafter. Maybe Novell will place added emphasis
on Linux. Maybe it will put itself up for sale. I guess we?ll just have to wait
and see.

by jerome.koch

Novell continues its attempt at supporting both Netware and SuSe to the detriment of both. Recently its stock has gone up from a paltry 5 per share to over 6; but its decline in revenues and anemic profits (1 cent per diluted share) indicate many internal problems. The new CEO should boldly go where no other Novell CEO has gone before, and sell off its Netware biz entirely - the entire kit and kaboodle. Right now its main competitor is Red Hat, not Microsoft. Its efforts should be totally in the Linux market concentrated on one competitor. Novell, once an industry giant, has fallen hard. Instead of competing against a multi-billion dollar corp such as Microsoft, it must battle a comapny with less than 1 billion dollars in market cap. So be it. You have to start some where.

by robbi_ia

I don't see Novell's hanging onto Netware so much milking a cash cow but staying true to the faithful customers.  At many events over the last few years, during discussions of Suse, the murmers of concern were heard in the audience.. until the loyal customers were told that NetWare was not going away.  At one BrainShare event, they even cheered. 

Novell might not have the largest market share, but they have the most loyal... unless they take away what the customers really want. 

 

 

by anandhms

Just went through the post..Well, the first one being:
"this app can break"
and the second
"bush hid the facts"
I just tried with the 4335 combination
"love you swt heart"
"what are you doing"
"come and see mommy"
....anything will work....Couldn't find out what 4335 really is?

by vetch_101

Aaron - as I understand it, most of the security features lauded by
pundits will be pretty much redundant if you run as administrator...
That's the point - you shouldn't have total "nuke-the-hard-disk"
control of a machine when you're doing simple things like browsing the
web...

I think it may be a case where "Windows Vista is not Windows XP" - but then perhaps that's when it's time to make the change...

I don't know - I haven't loaded up the new beta, because I've pretty
much come to the conclusion that all the benefits in security are
already there in Linux and *BSD - and they aren't frustrating, they're
how you use the OS - and so embedded that it works well.

Plus - I can have the latest applications running on a PII-233 at a
pretty adequate rate... Seems like it's the way to go to me...

Jx

by vetch_101

Aaron - as I understand it, most of the security features lauded by
pundits will be pretty much redundant if you run as administrator...
That's the point - you shouldn't have total "nuke-the-hard-disk"
control of a machine when you're doing simple things like browsing the
web...

I think it may be a case where "Windows Vista is not Windows XP" - but then perhaps that's when it's time to make the change...

I don't know - I haven't loaded up the new beta, because I've pretty
much come to the conclusion that all the benefits in security are
already there in Linux and *BSD - and they aren't frustrating, they're
how you use the OS - and so embedded that it works well.

Plus - I can have the latest applications running on a PII-233 at a
pretty adequate rate... Seems like it's the way to go to me...

Jx

by vetch_101

Aaron - as I understand it, most of the security features lauded by
pundits will be pretty much redundant if you run as administrator...
That's the point - you shouldn't have total "nuke-the-hard-disk"
control of a machine when you're doing simple things like browsing the
web...

I think it may be a case where "Windows Vista is not Windows XP" - but then perhaps that's when it's time to make the change...

I don't know - I haven't loaded up the new beta, because I've pretty
much come to the conclusion that all the benefits in security are
already there in Linux and *BSD - and they aren't frustrating, they're
how you use the OS - and so embedded that it works well.

Plus - I can have the latest applications running on a PII-233 at a
pretty adequate rate... Seems like it's the way to go to me...

Jx

by esalkin

I hope that this *IS* a bug and not an "easter egg."  Suppose you needed to save some important text that fit the pattern?   

by mr. e

Never fear: Notepad saves all the original bytes in the file.  When Notepad opens such a file, even one created by some other program, it automatically interprets them using a Unicode encoding instead of the default ANSI encoding.  The resulting characters may or may not be displayable depending on what fonts are available on the particular PC where this is done; hence, boxes or Chinese or whatever.

It does not seem to matter how the bytes get into the file.  To see this for yourself, create such a document, open it in Notepad, and select "File > Open...".  At the bottom of the Open dialog box you will notice that the Encoding is Unicode.  Change it to ANSI and click the Open button.  Voila!  Your original text reappears.

Shorter strings and other patterns exhibit the same problem.  For example, try "as asd asd a".

Apparently, Notepad applies a heuristic to the first few bytes of a file to determine the file encoding.  With the right bytes, it sometimes comes up with the wrong answer.

by defo1

I like the idea of this but the download site seems quite shady. I don't like having anything to do with shady websites especially ones that warn you about phishing activity on their own site and constantly try to con you into buying something to get something free. I think you should screen sites like this before you invite innocent people to come to such sites as victims. Shame on you, this is too unprofessional to be on a Tech Republic site/article.

by j sheesley

Today, Microsoft finally dropped support for Windows 98. Although most technical support for Windows 98 dried up years ago, Microsoft has at least still been supplying updates for security issues that have cropped up with the operating system. Not anymore.

Microsoft actually continued support for Windows 98 much longer than it originally planned. Microsoft traditionally abandoned support for products about 5 years after their follow up version shipped. That means that support for Windows 98 should have stopped after 2004 ? 5 years after Windows ME shipped. Windows 98 proved to be such a popular operating system however, that Microsoft was forced to hang onto Windows 98 until now.

By definition, Windows 98 is an 8 year old operating system. In Internet Years, that's more like 80 years ? archaic and long obsolete. The problem is of course that an estimated 50 million people still use Windows 98. W3Counter Global Statistics, a tracking site made up of reports from over 1300 websites, shows that Windows 98 is still as popular as the Mac.

Windows 98SE was arguably the most popular version of Windows until Windows XP shipped. It even took Windows XP several years to exclipse Windows 98 in popularity. Many businesses sat out Windows 2000 Professional completely and stuck with Windows 98. Windows 98SE was probably also the best DOS-based version of Windows, being more solid and reliable than any version, including the ill-fated Windows ME. Even as little as 2 years ago, I wrote an article giving reasons why sticking with Windows 98 was still a good idea.

Of course, there are probably still lots of unpatched bugs inside of Windows 98. Security holes have appeared as recently as the last few months. More are bound to be discovered. The only difference is now, 50 million plus users can't rely on Microsoft to fix them.

Microsoft is expecting users to upgrade to Windows XP, and hopefully ultimately with Windows Vista. You can't really expect Microsoft to support an 8 year old operating system, and they should probably be praised for hanging in there so long. At the same time, Microsoft can't really think people will upgrade directly from Windows 98 to Vista or XP. Most 98-class machines can't run XP let alone ever hope to run Windows Vista. Most Windows 98 users will continue to run Windows 98 and just be vulnerable to whatever comes along.

Windows 98 represents the penultimate version of Windows 95. As Windows Vista's ship date recedes into the distance, you constantly hear comparisons between it and the 'revolutionary' Windows 95. Remember that when Windows 95 shipped, people were out at stores at midnight to be the first to purchase it. It will be interesting to see whether Windows Vista gets the same welcome.

by benjamin.rhoads.ctr

Insert comment text here Windows 98 is still used on computers that are used as print servers...We no longer use Windows 98 that work with the internet...Too much of a security risk...For now I will not upgrade to Windows Vista...It is too slow on these older computers and for now it requires too many hardware upgrades that work against it for a lot of people...Windows XP second editon will still be the best operating system out there and used by most until people start using the newer PC's.

by joe.faletra

Go to Vista?  Are you kidding?  Why spend potentially hundresds of dollars upgrading a machine so I can run an operating system that, at this point, merely adds eye candy?  And when you are responsible for 4000 workstations that is terribly hard to justify.

I think I will stick with WinXP and Linux for some time to come. 

by nobby57

Not me! I think it was around 18 months after Windows 2000 was introduced before Gartner was able to recommend it for business use. Remember the jokes about the name meaning that it had 2000 documented bugs? Anyway, it will take a year or so for PC hardware to catch up to Vista. I'm in business, and my business is not beta testing. Reid

by darkpawn5

 

 

I personally will not be switching or jumping on the Vista bandwagon when it comes out.     I have 3 computers at home - 1 is running WXP, another W2K and 3rd 98SE, quite happy with how everything is right now, besides I don't see a need to switch to another O/S if I am going to switch it might be to Linux.    Vista I think is overrated, too much memory is required to operate it effectively and I don't want to have to switch H/W if Vista doesn't like it.

Yours Truly,

Iain Webster

 

 

by azcomplady

Having been in the computer business for more than 25 years, I don't ever jump on the bandwagon for the first release of a new operating system. I stuck with Windows 3.1 until I was sure about 95! I have many customers (e.g., older people on fixed incomes) who can't afford a new system. I will continue to do what I can to help them.

by philaaa1

IMHO,

All I can say is Vesta is software BLOAT, what ever happen to clean
tight code!! What I would like to see is a MS packaged 380MByte base load
of XP that loads modules AS YOU NEED THEM not all at once, like BartPE-XE horsepower
with PnP, or what I have done with XPlite and some other GNU software and
talk about XP running fast, it even faster than Win98 on a current class machine,
but outside of us enthusiast this will never see the masses. Why should it NOT,
besides the planed obsolesces model. Phil

by mcj.email

I'm sure MS would love a similar hype about Vista as it received about 95. That would be a triumph of hope over experience.
The reality is however, that most people who are on 2k or XP will wait until post Vista SP1 before considering shifting.
Even those with the resources to be a part of MS extended beta testing would struggle with the business case/ROI.
I would say that hardware lifecycles are going to be a larger factor in the takeup of Vista then the feature set of the OS. 

by j sheesley

Over the July 4th holiday, we went to Philadelphia to see
Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, and all of the other historical things in
the area. Being someone who?s steeped in technology, it?s fascinating to stop
and think how much people at the time of the Revolution were able to accomplish
without the assistance of the technology we have today.

We take for granted such things as computers, printers, web
sites, cell phones and so forth that it?s difficult to remember how things were
done before these things existed. A while back ago, I posted a blog that asked what
we did before computers and got some interesting responses.

But in that day and age, they fomented a revolution that
defeated the most powerful empire in the world. It took 8 years to do, but even
so they were able to accomplish it. Communication between major cities like
Boston and Philly could take a week one way, and communicating across the ocean
could take months. Pamphlets and newspapers were printed using a printing
press, but by hand in a slow process. And they weren?t easily distributed.

Even though communication was slow and difficult, I think
that helped the Revolution more than it hurt it. Because not only did poor
communications slow down the patriots, it also slowed down the British.  The British didn?t know what was going on in
a timely manner in order to be able to react quickly enough to either diffuse
the situation or crush it. Having the home court advantage, the soon-to-be
Americans could use the time-delay to help spread their word faster.

What do you think? With 21st Century technology,
how would 1776 have turned out?    

by d.belford

I guess the much heralded WAR ON TERROR would have epitomised the British response. And how is that going eh!
Not to bad I wouldn't think. USA has just about caused the total war to break out - much like the Brits vs Napoleon. Still Chinas standing out just like that time. And India, hmm, Pakistan & Israel - just the agreeable peace loving allies to have in this situation.

 

by sbeighle

If we (the Americans) had 21st Century technology, then it would be safe to say that Great Brittan would as well.  In light of this, I think that we'd still be saying God Save the King.  I don't think that King George would have had any problems tossing a few intercontinental missiles our way. 

But then, if America had never separated from Great Brittan, would we even have such things even in the 21st Century?  It was the pioneering spirit of Americans that has driven the invention of so many of the things that we have in the world today.  If the free spirit of Americans was stifled under the rule of Great Brittan, would invention also have been stifled?  Hmm....

 

by dsusysmgr

The war would have been very different. Washington realized after the battle of Manhattan that the Idea was not to defeat the British. But not to loose the war, the longer Washington and the Colonies could hold out, the more britain would feel the fight was not worth fighting (the goal of any guerilla war). Washington had to fight large scale traditional battles because the time between battles could be weeks or longer. When you fought the enemy you had to make it count, and that means a large scale "meeting engagement" but modern communications means enhance situational awareness. Which translates to knowing where your target is ( which could work both ways) and being able to hit him when you want with the minimally effecting fighting force required to hurt the enemy. He would have been able to split his army up making it harder to find but yet able to communicate and mount coordinated operations. The pressure against the British would have been unyielding and continuous, and all without the need for large scale meeting engagements that kill hundreds if not thousands of troops.

If you look at modern war you see that the meeting engagement is a last resort, When the US Army puts Large numbers of troops on the road, the goal is massive envelopments(OVER KILL) against inferior forces that have been half defeated by the heavy bombing. Modern technology has changed the tactics of war, but the strategies remain the same. The guerilla must only avoid detection and thereby destruction. The conventional force must find and defeat the enemy, and somehow out last an enemy that has devoted their life (even to the point of committing suicide) to not losing.  

So the advantage even today would be to the Washington ( the guerilla ) and not the British (Large Scale foreign invader)

by rdeschler

With 21st century technology King George would have been able to:

  • Use tempest technologies to electronically snoop on the founding fathers communications
  • Freeze their assets
  • Electronically monitor their meetings
  • Maintained the database of incriminating evidence necessary to hang them for treason

We'd all still be wearing powdered wigs and paying tribute to Her Majesty.

Rich

Houston

,

TX

 

by arahigihs

It would depend on whose scientists or inventors could turn out the new technology the fastest. Both the British and the Americans have turned out vast amounts of technology in the last 230 years. The Revolutionary War may have been over in a matter of months, maybe even weeks with the technology that we have available to us today.

Ponder this, if todays technology was available for the Revolutionary War, then what would the death toll have been for the Civil War, America's bloodiest war?

by j sheesley

Last week, I mentioned that Microsoft was finally dropping
support for Windows 98 and posed the question about whether or not
Microsoft really intended organizations to make the jump to Windows XP as a
result. Apparently it does ? at least partially. Microsoft wants to turn
Windows 9x-class workstations into dumb terminals.

Microsoft is releasing a new program called "Windows
Fundamentals for Legacy PCs"
. Microsoft understands that many Windows
9x workstations are still in use in business. It?s also aware that these
workstations are underpowered to run XP full blown and that many organizations
don?t want to spend the money necessary to replace this equipment. At the same
time, by abandoning support for Windows 9x, businesses are now left vulnerable
to attacks that may appear in 9x. WFLPC is meant to address all of those needs.

WFLPC is built on Windows XP Embedded Service Pack 2 code.
As such, it?s supposed to have the smaller footprint necessary to make it run
on older Windows 9x workstations. To use WFLPC, the workstation will need as
little as 64MB of RAM, a Pentium processor and 500MB of hard drive space. It
will also need a network card, because essentially what WFLPC does is turn the
workstation into a dumb terminal.

WFLPC gives businesses the ability to continue to use
Windows 9x-class machines while maintaining security on the system. Because of
the terminal aspect, the systems can be even more secure because you?ll be able
to centralize control over them in ways not possible in Windows 9x.

Unfortunately, your run of the mill small business or home
owner won?t the get the chance to use WFLPC. 
You can?t just buy if off the shelf. Instead, it?s included as part of
Microsoft?s Software
Assurance program
. Plus, naturally you have to have Microsoft software
running on the back end for the WFLPC workstation to talk to.

So is Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs the
way to go with old workstations?  It?s
hard to tell. With Windows 9x remaining unpatched in the future, continuing to
use it will be a gamble. I?ve always thought terminal-based machines can make a
lot of sense from both a security and a management standpoint. What?s your
take?

by mark miller

This uses Windows's Remote Desktop technology to allow users to log in to something like Windows Server 2003. From a performance perspective Remote Desktop is passable in terms of performance and response, but not great. A lot of data gets passed back and forth over the network, to update the GUI on the terminal. If Win98 machines are just being used as web terminals, this will slow down the apparent responsiveness of the terminals. Yes, this'll allow places to keep machines longer, but I imagine users won't be pleased with it for long.

by nacromancer

I know from experience in the field that there are some smal compnaies that still run those older OS's even as far back as 3.1, DOS, Fortran, and Cobol. But mostly that is because they are using those older OS's for machine equipment that still require it in order to work.

Wielding the power over manufacturers to upgrade their entire systems in order to keep their business moving along is abusive. But most company's I have worked on all have their software backed up, and using websites like bootdisk.com and others, updates to the currrent is not an issue. And most of thse systems are all behind a massive amount of networked firewalls, antivirus's programs, and anti intrusion applications that it would be stupid for someone to even try. What so some box gets packed with the green eggs and ham instead? What kind of joy would a hacker get out of doing that?

Besides usually I can convince them to use those old systems and create hardware firewalls out of them using smoothwall. Then they can network them to internet connected and public access computer stations as added protection. Then get them to upgrade their systems to be able to run XP and still be able to run those older apps in an emulated enviroment. Not a problem, unless it is something so old that needs to be run in an isolated disconnected eniviroment through a network monitor and switch controller that will still allow access to the systems state, but with out control capabilities accept from that applications directly connected server or work station.

You make it sound so bad and so manipulative that things can not be forced to change. thnings can be adopted and made to work together if you know what you are doing, without all the negative speculations. As you should appreciate I use the line from Star Trek's John Luke Pecard..."Make it Happen..."     

by tshrink

Old mainframe guys like me always liked terminals for most purposes.  A big advantage to client-server was the ability to use desktop office software like Word that was familiar to the everyday computer user.  How will the WFLPC interact with Office?  If it uses Office hosted on the server, then we really will have gone 'round the circle; just without the mainframe's awesome stability and processing power.

by unni_kcpm

Here in India(few of our Offices) has an equipment that can be connected to the Switch. The functionality is that, a Monitor, Keyboard and Mouse can be connected to it which will in turn configured on any other PC(Minimum P4 with atleast 512MB RAM desirable) can work as a workstation. The OS on the Main PC can be XP Home or above.

by oromis

I would rather see M$ provide a 'Win9x Final Service Pack' CD to allow re-installs to update to the last official patch level, then have the Open Source community or some other concerned group take over the updating. While WFLPC may be adequate where use of semi-intelligent terminals is appropriate, lots of users would prefer to continue use of independent Win98SE or other Win9x OS on their older and still adequate systems.

My own response will be to switch to Linux. WinXP's inclusion of DRM bugs, 'activation protocol', and bloatware features makes it useless to me. The discontinuance of Win9x support is the end of my support for M$'s bad policies.

by xwindowsjunkie

I suspect that the WFLPC is offered as a crumb to mollify those potential customers that the WIN9X hardware won't become instantly obsolete at least in minds of those reluctant customers.  

I design WIndows XP Embedded devices and I answered a survey request and all of the questions had to do with what would I use or recommend a stripped down version of Windows Embedded as a desktop OS.  The survey also tried to determine which components of WinXP Embedded were the ones that I felt were most inportant for a desktop.  Well now I know what the results of that survey were for!

Yes if you are careful and work at it, you can make a Windows XP Embedded load that will load up on a 64 MB or 128 MB RAM system and that will run on a P1. What I found especially funny though was that a XP Embedded OS image created for an AMDK2-266 run actually fairly well.  Images created for P2's were a pain in the butt to make work right.

by j sheesley

About a month ago, I was talking about the performance of
Vista Beta 2. In that entry, I mentioned how even though Vista seems a little
sluggish right now, every
version of Windows was been slow when it first shipped and that eventually
hardware manufacturers created powerful enough CPUs and systems that the
operating systems worked smoothly. At the end, I quipped that perhaps all we
needed to do was to wait for AMD and Intel to ship quad-core CPUs in order for
Vista performance to be acceptable.

Well, lo and behold ? Intel just
announced
that its quad-core CPUs, the Cloverton for servers and Kentsfield
for desktops, would appear in late 2006 rather than in the first half of 2007
as originally planned. This timing means that quad-core processors will be
available just in time for Vista?s final release.

By shipping quad-core processors this year, Intel also gets
the jump on AMD which won?t have its quad-core processors ready until next
year. This will be the first time in quite a while that Intel has beaten AMD to
market with an advanced chip.

Once interesting thing to Intel?s quad-core CPU is the fact that
the article notes that the CPUs are essentially dual-dual-core CPUs and not
true quad-cores. What Intel is doing is configuring two dual core CPUs in such
a manner as they fit into once CPU socket. AMD?s quad-core is supposed to be a ?true?
quad-core.

So what I originally wrote in jest turned out to be fact.
Quad-core CPUs were always coming. It was just a matter of time, but Vista was
supposed to beat them to the market. Now it looks like there will be at least a
few quad-core systems waiting to greet Vista when it ships. I guess I should
have just said something about needing octo-core CPUs or something like that
instead.

by stress junkie

I noticed this trend back in Windows 3.1 days. I had started in the field with 8 bit microcomputers. I found a small company that had a real vision about using computers in business, way ahead of most businesses. We were able to do a lot of good work with those computers. When Windows became popular and 286 computers became available it was clear to me that the perceived speed of the computers was no faster than the perceived speed of the 8 bit computers running CP/M or Xenix or MS-DOS. I blamed the software. I still do.

The computers that we have today are so amazingly powerful that I get sick when I realize how much hardware power is being wasted on poorly written code. I know you will say that graphical environments take more processor power just to create a display. I know and I agree. But you can write a graphical environment to work efficiently or you can write it to waste a lot of CPU cycles. I think that the latter is the case with software that is being created today. And this isn't just in Microsoft products. The X window system is just as bad.

The hardware that we have today exceeds the power of the most expensive supercomputers that were available twenty years ago. Just having more than one processor and a gigabyte of memory was out of reach of all but the biggest corporations. Don't even talk about clock speeds. We have CPUs that run at gigahertz speeds with memory that runs at megahertz speeds. That's amazing. But our hardware is spending all of it's time executing poorly written code. The screen updates are no faster today with the lastest graphic software than we saw twenty years ago. It took many years before the Wintel platform came close to the graphic performance of my Commodore 64. That was in part due to the fact that the Commodore 64 divided the work between dedicated chips and in part due to better written code. The tri-state bus that allowed "simultaneous" communication between the RAM and the graphic chip and between the RAM and the CPU was an excellent design and allowed a lot of data to flow over the 1 MHz data bus.

The affection that the software community has for object oriented code is, I believe, a big part of the speed problem. Another part of the problem is when people write APIs to handle thousands of possible conditions. Both of these characteristics create software inefficiency.

by sandym

Good one John!

However "things were always thus", I remember someone making a quip about undelete and unformat - in the 80s - introduced in the following version of DOS!

 

by georgeou

Vista is still in debug mode.  They still need to tweak the boot times and the install times to what they promised nearly a year ago.  CPU performance isn't the problem and that's not where it's slow right now.  My 3 year old Pentium 2.4 works just fine from a CPU standpoint.  Speeding Vista up will depend on getting a cheap gigabyte flash card working and 1 GB RAM a lot more so than a quad core CPU.

by plumley9

Horsepower versus efficiiency - given a choice we would drive sports cars, but like the space shuttle, we get stuck with trucks. VISTA has to be everything to everybody and is bloated code and legacy modules and kludged work-arounds. If adding more cylinders was the answer then we would all drive v-12s. The benefit of dual, quad, or octo cores depends entirely on the achievable paralleling of the code. Maybe the 'Quad' core will be a good fit.

by jcmoffitt

I wrote a review on my Vista Beta 2 install on my laptop and within that review I noted that the OS was pretty sluggish. I have a 2.4 ghz cpu with 512 mb of ram.  That is just not enough if you are considering upgrading to this OS.  Of course this OS is still in beta and the final release has not come out yet so maybe that will change, but I doubt it.  The software industry has always driven the hardware industry to a certain degree.  I think that there are a LOT of computer users that just bought a new PC with XP Home or Professional loaded on it and they are not going to want to dip back into their pockets for more hardware just to be on the bleeding edge of technology. 

by aaron a baker

I can't help but think, "Where's the END?" At what point do we say "Enough is Enough "already""
First it's 32bit architecture,then on to 64bit Architecture, then from multiple use Processor to multilevel, "Different level of built in ram, then we go to Dual Core, now we're headed for Quad.
Just where is the need for all this speed? or is this some Psycho adventure just to see far they can push.
If so, what does Quad do for me other and speed.
Does it make my computer better, easier to get along with?
Already there are a great may program that don't get along with 64Bit and now were talking Quad.
The question is inevitable, what is the purpose, are we headed for the moon,?
What is the point, Speed, we've seen what unbalanced speed can do.
Just what is the use then, of having a 64 Bit, or Itanium or Quad if no other program will get along with it.
What the Rush? Far more important, What's the point?
The trick is to get the client to think that they can't possibly live without it, regardless of how absurd.
I'd say it's working well in some quarters.
Thank you
Aaron

by still_learntoo

How can you continue to call this a quad-core cpu, when you have said it is not.
If an investors only reads headlines, you are doing a dis-service to both Intel and AMD.
Investors buying on your statement that Intel is going to ship quad-core in 2006.
But we know that is not what you said in the body of the story when you noted that
Intel is making a dual-dual-core cpu. But you repeated the " . . . Intel is shipping
quad-core" in your 27 Jul story.

by j sheesley

For a long time now, AMD has been a thorn in Intel?s side.
Just the other day, I mentioned how Intel has started to strike
back by shipping quad-core processors. It has also started to squeeze
AMD earnings
by lowering prices on its CPUs. So if AMD is starting to have a hard time
beating Intel to market with faster processors and can be sent into the red
with a wave of Intel?s hand, how can it compete?

One good strategy is to hit em where they ain?t. Or at least where they ain?t as strong. To
that end, AMD recently decided
to buy ATI
to put itself right in the middle of the graphics card market. Intel
markets some graphics chipsets, but usually they?re included on motherboards.
Usually Intel graphics chips aren?t found on separate cards. That?s where ATI
and nVidia currently rule.

ATI has been around for a very, very long time. While other
graphics makers like S3, Diamond, Trident, and others have crashed and burned
along the side the road, ATI has always been a reliable, if not always
top-performing, chip maker.

For AMD?s sake, buying ATI is a pretty cunning move. Beyond
the talk about the union being able to create a ?computer on a chip?, the
marriage seems pretty natural. AMD has been chasing the graphics market ever
since introducing the 3DNow technology into their K6 CPUs. ATI is a perfect
extension to those efforts. In addition, with the amount of graphics power
needed in Vista in order to get Aero Glass working properly, ATI and nVidia chipsets
are both only going to be more in demand in coming years.

Mergers are always difficult things to pull off however. AMD
will have to tread lightly in order not to mess ATI up in the short term while making sure that it gets the most out of its investment before Intel can react. That?s probably why they?re doing it before Vista ships.
Intel has also come close to putting AMD out of business several times by
cutting prices. So the timing of the merger is crucial to keep Intel?s price
pressure and more rapid innovation from permanently sidelining AMD while putting AMD in the position to really take off once Vista ships.

I?ve always liked AMD CPUs. Every computer I?ve built for
myself at home has used AMD chips. And I?ve always stuck to using ATI video
cards because you can always be assured that the company will be around to get drivers and support later. I?m
looking forward to see how AMD/ATI is going to fare against Intel in the
future.

by aaron a baker

I have always been with AMD. They couldn't GIVE me an Intel no how many times they Quad them.
Amd has always proven reliable, dependable and has never let me down in all the years that I've used them.
The Other is of course ATI.
To me if not "THEE Best", then certainly one of the top of the line cards in the business.
I've had the others mentioned and then went with ATI.
I have never looked back. Every time you would upgrade an ATI, that's what you really got, an actual Upgrade, not the same old thing with a few new toys thrown in. I have also fond them to be the most versatile. Be it Gaming, or serious computing ATI stands very tall in my books.
I can only hope that AMD will use this to their advantage and make both products better, not sit and ride the wave as so many other have.
If this is only half as good as I think it's going to be, it's still going to be great.
Congratulations to AMD and thanks for clueing us John

Regards
Aaron

by gdude

I too own all AMD cpu's only. Havent used but one Intel in over 10 yrs. I see this as a good marriage for AMD with Ati. Maybe a few yrs back Intel could have squashed AMD but i think its to little to late for that with their Fab plants in Germany & a union with a overseas board maker. There are haters of Intel as there is of M$, i just thank God for the competition of AMD, if not we would be paying outrageous prices for the CPU's from Intel..

by timbam

I agree, I have used AMD products before they even made cpus. They have always been the preferred product for me. All of my homebuilds and spec. pcs have been AMD. I also have been very pleased with the ATI and Nvidia products. I hope all goes well for AMD.

by slopez

Same as the author I allways use ATI Graphics
I liked the Intel motherboards that came with ATI Graphics
Will Intel continue to use ATI
I can't wait to see what AMD/ATI will come out with.

by laketahoeent

My girl friend purchased two phones with $100.00 rebates
each from verizon. I am very familiar with the difficulty with rebates, so I
took it upon myself to make the copies and send them out myself. After not
receiving any rebates I decided to contact Young America to see where my rebate
was. The gentleman was very courteous to me and told me to send out the
original receipt for the phones and I would receive my rebates shortly after
their receipt. I did not want to do this as in order to get my insurance if my
phones were lost or damaged, I would need original receipts. I did send out the
original and waited. After one month I received my letter un-opened with the
words time has expired for this rebate. I called young America only to be told
that it was too late and I was out of luck. So I asked to contact a supervisor
and was told the same thing. This was after talking with a very courteous young
man who had said there would be no problem and just send in the original
receipt. Now I feel I was lied to and wasted all the time I invested to receive
this money promised to us. Very Disappointed and upset with the customer
service that I received. I will copy this letter to the President of Verizon
and to various consumer blogs (http://www.uspirg.org/consumer) (http://www.maryschmidt.com/2006/03/24/we-value-your-business/)

(http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/01/free_the_ad_scr_1.html#comments)

 and websites
until this problem is resolved.

by j sheesley

Back in 1991, famed computer pundit
Stewart Alsop claimed that the last mainframe would be unplugged inside of 5
years. He wasn?t alone in that prediction. Many analysts and pundits looked at
the power of the mainframes back then and the rapid growth of PC-based networks
and wrote the epitaph for the mainframe. But it?s 15 years later and mainframes
are still happily humming along as if noone told them they?re not supposed to
be around anymore.

Computer?s based on the x86
architecture grow more and more powerful with each passing quarter. Just
forgetting for a second what?s in the server room, the computer that sits under
your desk is probably a lot more powerful than some mainframe computers that
were sold for millions of dollars 10 years ago.

When I was a PC Analyst for the local
county police department we had an IBM 4381 in our computer room. The county
had paid several million dollars for it on a county bond issue in the mid 80?s.
By 1991, when we moved to a new police headquarters, we had to pay someone to
come take it away for scrap. And the bond was still not paid off. The 486?s we were starting to roll out to officers
were more powerful than that machine. It seemed as if that was the way things
were going to go. Mainframe computers were the dinosaurs of the 90?s.

Yet today, they?re still around. Why?
In an age of dual and quad-core CPUs, blade servers, and the ongoing war
between Window, Linux, and Macs, why are people still paying huge bucks for
mainframes?

Because they work.

Well, let?s also not forget the fact
that IBM has gone out of its way to make sure that mainframes stay relevant. By
incorporating Linux virtual machines inside of mainframe systems among other
things, IBM has in effect created blade servers without the blades.

Beyond that however, mainframes are
solid and secure. They?re also designed in such a way that they?re optimized
for multiple transactions which is increasingly what blade servers and clusters
are being built for. Mainframes have already answered the question that these
new technologies are supposed to be.

IBM doesn?t break out mainframe
revenue anymore but according
to ZDNet
, analysts estimate IBM takes in about $10 billion dollars from its
mainframe business. That?s hardware, software, and services together. Not to
mix apples and oranges, but Apple?s revenue last quarter was a little over $4
billion. The Mac business only made up about 55% of that. That
means that over the course of the year, IBM makes about as much money in
mainframes as Apple makes in Macs.

The mainframe is kind of like the old
man from the Monty Python And The Holy Grail ?Bring Out Your Dead?
skit. As much as analysts and pundits (not to mention PC Vendors) would love
for you to toss out your mainframe, if you listen closely enough you can
probably hear it saying ?But I?m not dead
yet!?

by georgev

   I studied programmiing on an IBM360, a little later than your unit. I miss the autoclearing on memory allocation, hardware checks on process memory usage, programmable i/o ports, ...  My PDP11 the most important interupt is power-fail, not a hung-up internet process.

  The companies have been purchasing PC's on the basis of reviewers, not people who need real answers to problems, so now they have Fast machines that fail.  The mainframe is still where you start a 30-hour calculation and can expect it to finish with the programmed answer, rather than a crash in any of 295 different fonts.

  Any idea whether there has been a successor to the PC360 that implemented the IBM360 code in a PC-size unit, for development.  It would be nice to get a computer that I could write code for rather than exception handling.

   

 

by gordon

One thing mainframes have is I/OBandwidth.  I remember hearing over the years that the microcomputer AKA PC is "I/O bound" meaning it's fast but has to cope with inadequate support peripherals.

I remember a UNISYS minicomputer we had that was being replaced by a PC (running Solaris).  We had to update everyone to a PC who connected to the machine because the new one couldn't handle the old serial lines.  The trade-off being about equal in cost.  At the time, the PCs seemed a better deal (You decide ;).

As the old machine was "scrap", I bid on it at auction and got to take it home (along with some dandy 9-track tape drives).  Opening it up, I found two 68020 CPUs (what a mac was running those days).  What was striking, however, was the I/O bus.  18 slots!  200-300 Pins on the connectors.  Each serial line board handled 16 lines - each had its own 68008 CPU.  No wonder it was so fast - it was designed for it.

So remember, I/O Bandwidth is why the "dinosaurs" are still around.

My humble opinion.

by ffg1

As a 'dinosaur' mainframe systems programmer who also works in the PC arena, I can unequivocally say the mainframes will never die.  There is no PC or midrange technology available or upcoming in the near future that can challenge mainframes at what they do best; process millions of transactions with subsecond response time and serve terrabytes of data in milliseconds.

As PC technology grows and becomes more powerful and faster, IBM also enhances their mainframe technology. Imagine the ability to join 255 or more mainframes, each more powerful than any PC or midrange, into a workgroup where a job or transaction runs on any one of these machines based on technology that selects the system with the best thruput and making that decision in nanoseconds. Also imagine that if any one of those mainframes goes down, the work scheduled to run on it being instantly rerouted to one of the other systems. This technology, beginning with clusters of 32 machines, has existed since long before blade servers were a spark in someone's imagination.

IBM also far exceeds any PC software company in documentation, debugging abilities,  reliability, and recovery. After all, they started the computing age and have had many decades to perfect their performance. And we don't even want to discuss security;  have you ever heard of a virus on a mainframe?

I am a Mainframe Dinosaur and proud of it. 

by dsusysmgr

I think the big factor in Mainframe's continued survival has to do with the fact that it works. Companies have invested millions not only in the hardware that still does the job, but is software that nobody wants to destabilize by porting it to an operating system that works on a PC. It is not that hard to distribute data from the nice safe Mainframe apps to the convenient easy to use PCs. I know when I am offered the opportunity to have my cake and eat it too I will choose haveing it both ways.

by american_it_guy

I think we are missing the real reasons, and has little to do with hardware.

The manhours over the years that have gone into these processes are almost unreplacable. If not strictly from expense then ability is the next hurdle. Many organizations have tried and are trying. I imagine some regret the move and some do not. A county will never have that kind of money. They seem to typically offshore the whole conversion project to people that don't have a clue. Which is soooo dumb. Those who try to do it internally pick a platform to move to that has flaws, and when I say this, I mean one of your common high profile winners in the software market. Stuff does not work, projects go wild, and people go nuts over expenses. Still others try to re-write at a higher level, for example, a state will shove the new project down each county's throat one by one. This is probably one of the better approaches.

We stink at a couple of things that has kept the mainframe alive, 1) project management 2) reality and focus to conversion. 3) commitment. I am guessing if you add it all up the mainframe is cheaper. Hello? Is this correct?

If people would have kept life simple, and translated the mainframe environment to the PC's in a more apples to apples basis, it would have worked better, but only recently with strong servers. Most tried too early. The thoiught of a 486 doing anything is not going to fly, a very young platform. And I saw Windows OS as never part of any of these solutions. An IBM OS with COBOL on INTEL architecture was the only thing I saw ever working. and that just did not happen. Too many competing forces, emotions and eye candy solutions poisoned the barrel of apples.

Yes, I have programmed in all of these environments, over the years, including POS and AIX. The IBM I5 is the only prayer for people to get off mainframes to a smaller box in a most cost effective manner. The main reason things do not work out is people that don't know what their doing are in charge. They never asked me.

The windows marketing machine has cost the industry a lot of bucks.

by mvuister

Comparisons are hard, but here are a few examples.

I'm an IT Prj Mgr for a data communications provider, converting from an IBM iSeries billing system to a state-of-the-art system on Sun Solaris.

On the iSeries, we created a 222MB file containing >3.6 million records with acct notes in a minute or so, faster than I could even FTP it to the Solaris server from my PC (2.2GHz, 100Mb/s Ethernet).  I view the first screen of this file on the iSeries within a second or so, with the remainder of the file loading in a few more seconds.

Contrast this with my failed attempts to view it on my Windows XP PC and the inability of Solaris' native editor (vi) to load a file this large.  And when vi does load a large file, you have to wait before you get to see any part of it.

In addition, the iSeries' DB2 database has worked nearly flawlessly for over a decade and has required minimal maintenance, whereas we struggle monthly with Oracle bugs and performance.  (I don't think our competence differs that much between the two platforms).

My take: the big iron still works best for heavy lifting.

Michael

by eddie n

"have you ever heard of a virus on a mainframe?"

The Morris Internet worm doesn't count, I guess. But of course, there are several reasons why we won't be seeing Norton Antivirus for Mainframes any time soon.

  • Virus writers target the most popular platforms, and apparently mainframes aren't that popular.
  • There are practically no standard OSes for mainframes (in the sense that you can't get an IBM 360 and install an OS from another manufacturer like Prime or DEC).
  • If you are a hacker, you need a machine to test and refine your code on. How many hackers do you know who have a Prime 750 in their basement?

I must admit that I was one of the ones who predicted the death of the mainframe back in the late 80s. I am also happy to admit that I was dead wrong about it. Without the rock solid architecture and run time reliability of the mainframes that power our utilities, our airline scheduling, our hospital recordkeeping, etc. I wonder what would be happening in our increasingly tech-dependent society.

by gorellana

Only reason mainframes are still running is that it costs to much to remove the data and software and port that process to PC level.  It is being done as cost permits.  Mainframes are not smart enough to compete.  The mainframe programmers are even less.  I worked on both for a long time and believe me it's much more cost efficient once you are in the PC environment to do processing.

by audreyd

Fifteen years ago, my department moved a large database application from mainframe to client-server.  All of our new applications since then have been developed from scratch on Intel or Sun servers.  I don't know of any NEW applications going onto our mainframes, but migrating the existing legacy apps would be just too expensive.  I suspect that they'll end up going to PC based architecture when they become to dated to maintain on the mainframes.

by truedinosaur

I think one of the main reason the mainframe is still around is that the IBM mainframe OS protects itself better than any MS OS ever will.  Hardware aids in protecting one process from trashing another process.  This translates to better up time.

Another reason is programming languages.  There has been one popular mainframe language since the late 60's.  COBOL.  Yes, there was BAL, PL/1, APL, and Fortran but they never took off in the business world.  In the PC world we have had Basic, Pascal, VB, C, C++, VC++, C#, Java, .NET, etc. All major contenders.

I also blame the GUI.  Too much variability that the user can sit and think about during the design phase.  A 24 x 80 character, 7 color screen minimizes choices. :-)

    

by straightshooter

After nearly 40 years in the field, I think the Mainframe still exists because it is the most productive device for the purpose. I believe that there has been more time wasted on the PC than there has been in productive work. Even forgetting the Internet for a minute as the chief time waster, how much time has been spent by distributed PC users developing the same spreadsheet? Or as we used to say, "Re-inventing the wheel". On the main frame, it's done once for all users.

by robo_dev

Ahh the debate rages on.....

My opinion is that, yes, the core architecture of systems like the zSeries is very robust, the architecture of zOS and it's related friends (e.g. RACF, DB2) are fairly solid, and the overall direction of mainframe technology has been that 'it's just another big server' which looks a lot more UNIX-like (and may be running LINUX on a partition already).

However,  all that big-iron carries a very hefty price tag.  The software is costly, the people are costly, the infrastructure is costly. Midrange UNIX and (dare I say it) even AS/400 systems can give you maybe four-nines for 1/4 the cost.  Wintel-based servers have come a  long, long way and, if properly managed, are right up there...and the cost is so low that it costs more to dispose of the stuff than it did to buy it.  

The Mainframe is a more idiot-proof environment.  Script-Kiddies do not know JCL, RACF, or DB2 (typically). 

It's fairly difficult to really screw up the security settings or install software to hose the system. Priviledge escalation, malware, buffer overflows, or denial-of-service attacks are not typically part of the mainframe jargon.  So if you've got lots of money, a nice data center, and you need it to be bullet-proof and process gobs of data, the Mainframe is it.

However, as the Mainframe is 'improved' with things like LINUX, UNIX System Services and Apache Web Server, the flexibility and compatibility gained will be at the expense of of reliability and security. 

A year ago I witnessed a Fortune-100 company knock it's mission-critical production mainframe application offline for several hours after loading LINUX on a 'test' partition (the local router that ate the front-end-processor).  I've seen cases where RACF was disabled accidentally, NFS shares were wide open on zOS UNIX System Services, wide-open Windows Shares were found to exist on the Mainframe, or whole volumes of sensitive files were laying out there unprotected (sAMBA for zOS).   So, for every idiot-proof system, there are more clever idiots......    

by g.r.

I agree with the last poster robo_dev.  The piling-on of more "open" systems functions is ruining the mainframe's  reputation of reliability/stability.  The MF is not dead, but it's not getting alot of attention either.  Who wants to write about computer systems that are quietly processing 70% of the world's data the same way they've been doing it for 40+ years, without a hiccup?  The industry is driven by newer, faster.  Microsoft approves of OS'es that are built architecturally inferior.  IBM doesn't.  People buy Microsoft.  Go figure.

by lavinmansukhani

In response to TrueDinosaur's comment:

I think one of the main reason the mainframe is still around is that the IBM mainframe OS protects itself better than any MS OS ever will.  Hardware aids in protecting one process from trashing another process.

This is what exactly DEP does on the Microsoft platform.
Data Execution Prevention (DEP) is a set of hardware and software instructions that performs additional checks on memory to help prevent malicious code from running on a system.

In response to robo_dev's comment:

However,  all that big-iron carries a very hefty price tag.  The software is costly, the people are costly, the infrastructure is costly.

You forgot to add that even the maintenance is costly.

by excorpguy

While no system is totally secure, Mainframes are much more secure than any version of Windows will likely be in my lifetime.  Plus, their ability to handle many transactions and disk I/O puts most PC systems to shame.

No, I am not a mainframe operator either.  Just someone who knows a little about their design and operation.

by mdhealy

Fundamentally, I think the difference between a "mainframe" environment and a "client-server" environment is cultural, like the difference between some small airline in a developing country and a big airline in a major economy: if you are American Express and your main database crashes, or Air France and your jet crashes, you will be on the front pages of many newspapers the next day.  A person who has not worked in a high-reliability organization cannot begin to appreciate how deeply ingrained such institutional cultures can become.

A similar difference exists between old-line utilities and ISPs.  If my lights are off, or my voice phones stop working, there will be a truck roll within the hour.  Ever try to get such a sense of urgency from your average broadband provider?  Until broadband providers come to CARE about reliability as deeply as old-line utilities, VOIP cannot fully replace voice service.  Until PC makers come to CARE about reliability as deeply as those who have run big financial systems for decades, client-server cannot supplant the mainframe.

When a PC crashes several times a week, we take that for granted.  When a Linux server crashes several times a year, we take that for granted.  When a mainframe crashes twice in a year, people get fired.




by jerome.koch

The organizations that use mainframes the most (Large financial orgs, research orgs, and science orgs) require a huge amount of number crunching. The National Weather Service needs to compute in 3-D the forecasts of the entire atmosphere from the surface to 100,000feet AGL globally. These forecast models need to do thier work in under 4 hours. I believe they use Cray Super Computers for this.

That being said, Pixar was able to build a massive server cluster of Linux based AMD based servers (total 200 servers) for its rendering programs. I read it still took about 2 weeks to render the 2 hour Nimo movie. A mainframe could have do it quicker, but the costs were prohibitive. From a TCO perspective, most orginzations choose server based systems for cost reasons. Again, the organizations that use mainframe do not have to worry about profits/losses.

JP

by wayne m.

It's Not A Technology Issue

The that mainframes are still around has little to do with technology of the platforms and more to do with the difficulty in rewriting and replacing large applications.

Replacing a large scale application is much more difficult than writing a new application from scratch; I have seen many mainframe replacement projects spend tremendous amounts of money, overrun schedules by years, and still fall flat on their faces before ever being deployed.  Most try to do a "forklift" upgrade, intending to turn off the mainframe and turn on the new system in one fell swoop.  When rolling out a new application, however, a much more cautious approach is taken with site at a time roll outs with minimal functionality.  It often takes a year or more to complete the initial roll out and years more are spent adding capabilities and improving the system.  The expectation that one can recreate this existing system in a cost-effective manner is simply naive.

Mainframe applications have had years to be refined and improved.  Yes, the underlying hardware and software technology may be old, but a large amount of manpower has gone into adapting the mainframe to the business needs.  The reason that mainframes still exist and will continue to exist is that replacing them is a difficult task and the effort is really not cost effective.

by j sheesley

Graphics-intensive applications have become more and more
the norm in computers today. Whether you?re talking about the graphics
necessary to create movies such as Cars, to render 3D objects in AutoCad, or
the emerging graphic requirements coming in Vista, computers have long gone
from text-only to basic GUIs to completely graphical in nature. Along with this
has come an increasing need for faster graphics cards and wider bandwidth to
process the millions of pixels being manipulated.

We?ve all seen the progression of graphics in a PC
environment. The first graphics card that was available for a PC-Compatible
could display 4 colors on the screen at a resolution of 320 x 240. You had
choice of a Cyan/Magenta/White palette or a Red/Green/Yellow palette. The first
cards cards were all 8-bit ISA based with a maximum bandwidth of about 8Mbps
(Mega Bits Per Second).

Today, a high-end video card can produce full 32-bit color
with millions of colors at a resolution exceeding 3480x2400.  AGP8 slots have a maximum bandwidth exceeding
2Gbps, and newer PCI-Express cards have a maximum bandwidth exceeding 4Gbps.

So, that raises the question, just how much bandwidth would
something as complicated as the human eye require? Apparently not much. 

According to a recent article in New
Scientist
, human retinas operate with a bandwidth of about 8.75 Mbps. That
means you could easily run it on a 16-bit ISA slot or an old PCI slot. As with
most engineering projects, retina is actually theoretically capable of
processing about 4000 times as much data as it does in practice, but the extra
power needed to do so is too expensive. When you think about how much data that
is, it?s pretty impressive that the eye is designed in such a way to process
that much information and send it over a data line that today would be
considered obsolete.

A better analogy may be the amount of bandwidth consumed by
streaming media. In that case, it would take 5Mbps of data to transfer video at
DVD quality. HDTV quality is supposed to take about 15Mbps of bandwidth.  The human retina uses far less bandwidth, and
produces a much higher resolution picture.

In any case, whether you?re talking streaming media
bandwidth or the amount of bus bandwidth needed to process and display graphics
images, it would seem that man made technology still is pretty inefficient. Whether
you?re a fan of evolution or intelligent design, the human eye seems to get the
job pretty well done.    

by justin james

It's a matter of focus.

If you hooked your computer up to an eye tracker, and only had it render what was in the narrow field of focus & vision of the human eye (about 3 degrees or so), then yes, your graphics card could theoretically acheive human eye resolution on well under 8 mbps of bandwidth. But because you could be looking at ANY portion of the screen at any given instant (watch how far someone's eyes swivel while they read a Web page!), the surface area that a graphics card needs to render is larger (and therefore requires more bandwidth) than the human eye by a pretty high factor. Add in the quest for larger screens and the related increases in resolutions, and it is easy to see why graphics card are so high powered for a resolution (and occassionaly a frame rate) and still do not have the level of detail that the eye can capture.

It isn't that the eye itself is marvelously well engineered, it is the control system that adapted to a poor device that is to be admired. The fact that our brains seamlessly compensate for things such as walking (without bobbing our heads like pigeons), filling in the missing details of motion (made you flinch!), and simply being able to read without thinking about turning our heads is the real amazing thing. The eye itself is not anything special.

J.Ja

by eddie n

"the eye itself is not anything special", huh?

Try telling that to a blind person.

by eddie n

"the eye itself is not anything special", huh? Try telling that to a blind person.

by leee

Interesting about the eye=computer! As a kid (late '70s) I remember reading something that compared the human brain to a supercomputer (of course, the kind that would take up a few buildings), and of course I've long pondered the idea of eye=camera, but never thought to evaluate the connection between the eye and quantatative computer power.

(Cool.)

by j sheesley

As I?ve mentioned before, to keep my IT skills fresh I
maintain a small consulting business on the side of my regular day-job here at TechRepublic.
An increasingly worrisome trend I?ve noticed lately is just how many problems I?ve
had to fix as a result of problems arising from Symantec software. Whether it?s Norton Anti-Virus, Norton
Internet Security or (Lord Forbid) SystemWorks, it seems as soon as the user
says they?re having problems with their computer and you start asking
questions, the common denominator is often something Symantec residing on the
system.

I?ve always liked Symantec software. I used to think that
Norton AntiVirus was better than some others on the market like McAfee. And
back in the days of DOS, Norton Utilities were an absolute must have in your
software toolkit. Maybe it?s me, but recently it seems like today there?s just
something wrong with Symantec software.

For example, a recent customer was having problems with her
laptop running incredibly slowly. It would take 15 ? 20 minutes on start up before
she?d have control over her desktop. A quick trip into the Event Viewer showed
that LiveUpdate was having fits trying to access the update server. Even though
her Internet connection was otherwise good, the updating service would continually
try to access the servers, fail, and retry again. Endlessly. In the process,
the whole computer would slow to a crawl.

In another instance, an end user had installed SystemWorks on
their workstation in order to clean up some problems with the registry. Before,
the computer was running poorly, but afterwards the system was a doorstop. I
had no choice but to completely reinstall Windows XP in order to undo the
damage.

Plus, we won?t even go into the times where I?ve run into
customers that have had updated versions of Norton AntiVirus on their systems
and I?ve discovered undetected worms and Trojans lurking about.

In frustration, I?ve turned to recommending AVG for home
users and some of my smaller business customers. I also kind of like Trend?s
software as well. Trend?s online
scanner
has been a life saver on several occasions. But with all of the
problems I?ve encountered lately, it?s becoming difficult to recommend Symantec
software.

If this is indeed a symptom of a larger trend, then Symantec
is in trouble. With Microsoft releasing OneCare on one hand, and then shoddy
software causing more problems than they solve on the other, it can?t bode well
for Symantec. I?d be eager to hear about
the experiences other TechRepublic members have had with Symantec stuff. Am I alone in becoming disillusioned with it?