Tidiness and the Techie

I used to take photos of each techs area and post them on the door. This kind of acted as a warning to those about to enter the area that they were about to enter a war zone. This usually solved the problem, the photos were seldom up more than a day before things got cleaned up. I set up cabinets for each catagory, keyboards, MOBO's, hard drives, CD's, software, power supplies ETC. At least that way they could close the doors of the cabinet. This usually happened on a two week basis, but I was happy, as they were seldom around and it at least meant they were out working and not playing games at their desks.

I don't have a team working for me...therefore [b]I AM the culprit[/b] around here. :)

You may need to actually go in and help them organize for the first time...take charge and create labeled boxes, shelves, cabinets, drawers or whatever is needed to get the stuff put away, and then setup a process like mjd's photos :) to keep it in order.

I find that once you have set destinations for things, it's much easier to keep things cleaned up. It's getting that first organization done that's the hardest.

Tink

I am the culprit here!

My intentions are always good but I never seem to be able to catch up.

The best practise that I have seen, and I've both done the job and managed a large team of desktop techs, is to have a "bench" room with a lockable door. This is not their office/cubcile where they sit and do emails. Its a working room with the equipment they are disecting, spare parts etc.

This can get a little cluttered but you can close the door, and lock it to prevent theft/loss.

James

What do they get paid to do? What do you evaluate them on come review time?

As long as you are paying them to resolve problems, cleaning will always be a low priority. If you really want their areas cleaned then base their reviews on tidyness not on productivity.

I've had "Tidying up" as my annual performance objective for many years. So, I am not the one who can fix this.

But I know what caused the problem - lack of storage space, and lack of time to put things in the right place. I love to clean up my office. I can do that, and delay all my projects by at least a week. Or, I can do most of the project on time, and answer the calls from users, and leave the work place a mess. I can also throw all these things away, and ask my boss to buy them when I need them again, as there is no place to put them.

So, what should I do ? Or, more importantly, what should my boss do ? Tell me to clean up ?

but I've finally reached the point that when I replace such components, I throw them in the recycle bin. PCs are a slightly different story, but most of them also get recycled.

Project PCs require at most 2 keyboards or mouses: one each PS2 and USB. Monitors are authorized at one per interface connector type (VGA, DVI, etc.)

Now, I just need to find somebody to come get this 5-cubic yard bin full of computers and parts...

Well, thanks everyone for the responses. It looks to be a universal problem and I think it's going to continue to be a problem!

Interestingly we've just moved out of an area where we had a bench-room/shelving with labelled boxes, etc. and that office space wasn't much better.

You're right though, I'm not reviewing the team on how tidy they are, I review them on how quickly they resolve calls and how many they resolve so make the place tidy is going to come low down on their list of priorities.

I think I'm going to do something along the lines of photographs and see what happens! And maybe give everyone an hour slot each week where they do nothing but tidy up.

for instance, on monday i sat at my desk and though "yikes, this is becoming a health hazard"

So spent a good 3 hours tidying, sorting, filing etc

now i can't find a dang thing! i had a perfectly good thing going, i knew what each pile contained and how long it had bene there..now i am lost.

i realise now i should have just left it untill the christmas break!!!!!!!!!

WE had the same problem, messy desktops, mountain high cd collections, enough LAN cabling to repel off the building etc. The solution was simple, everyday the manager would give a "grade" to the tech support team. The grade included overall tech support, user feedback, a few more others and of course cleanliness. Those who got a grade of 85 and above would see a bonus on their paycheck. It really did work since everyone did their part, and it didn;t really cost the firm that much.

I've worked with people and this problem for more than 35 years. All this complaining is just excuses for laziness in picking up after themselves and being organized! I have found that most people with this problem grew up with their Momma doing it for them and they never had to do it for themselves. All this talk of ALWAYS being too busy is just plain BS! If you give them the space, place to put things, and a little dedicated time, then they should be doing it, plain and simple! Clean up should be a part of their evaluation as much as anything else. Clutter and mess are unsafe! Ask any OSHA inpector or Fire Marshall! If you can't find things after clean up then you're not doing it right! The goal is to make it easier to find things and yet keep it neat, clean and safe! That's why there are file cabinets, folders, labels, boxes, markers and the like. If your a boss, THEN BE A BOSS and lay the law down on it!

Google for "5S audit" and you will find a methodology for applying to office areas. It encourages organisation and tidyness. Worth investigating.

Considering the size and scope of AOL and your function withing that organization, I want to ask, "Is there any security policies in place?" Even though you state that many items are lying about, and not quite stealable (CRT's), corporations have, at least, a 'Clean Desk Policy'...all encompassing. In my area of employment, if a person can not comply with company policies they need to find employment elsewhere.

I used to run the network of a former employer, and our work area always looked like a mad scientists basement. I like to have what I'm supposed to be working on in plain view, and the parts or supplies I may need right at hand.

Now that I'm a business analyst, my cube is a collection of file folders, stacks of notes, printouts, etc. It's organized, but in a manner known only to me.

I have no studies to back this up, but based on my observations over 20 + years in this business, I think you're dealing with a basic characteristic that common among techhies.

FWIW...

If you start taking some of their most important work and hiding it away from the mess.

Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder:

A pervasive pattern of preoccupation with orderliness, perfectionism, and mental and interpersonal control, at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

is preoccupied with details, rules, lists, order, organization, or schedules to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost

shows perfectionism that interferes with task completion (e.g., is unable to complete a project because his or her own overly strict standards are not met)

is excessively devoted to work and productivity to the exclusion of leisure activities and friendships (not accounted for by obvious economic necessity)

is overconscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of morality, ethics, or values (not accounted for by cultural or religious identification) is unable to discard worn-out or worthless objects even when they have no sentimental value

is reluctant to delegate tasks or to work with others unless they submit to exactly his or her way of doing things
adopts a miserly spending style toward both self and others; money is viewed as something to be hoarded for future catastrophes

shows rigidity and stubbornness

(American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Washington, DC, 1994)

As a computer tech that supports about 400 PC's I know the story. I was always in a rush because users can't wait. Since I didn't have a workbench I had to fix everything, from printers to cpu's. Where? Over my desk. As soon you finish one equipment there is another ticket to fix another. Provide those guys a space to work and you'll see the difference.

I'm frequently amazed by how many supervisors are willing to pay techie wages for cleaning services. Interns, administrative support and janitorial support people make wonderful assistants for this type of task in any business and keep your skilled staff focused on the work they're paid to do.

Of course you need organized storage space close to the work area of the folks who need the supplies. Pictures are a nice touch, labels work just as well. It doesn't take a bachelor's degree to identify a video card or a USB cable. Have someone come in once a week to put stuff away. It's easy to sell this idea to executives too since they're all about squeezing every last penny of value out of their payroll dollars.

Good luck!

Excuses, excuses! It's really just a matter of some self discipline. If you simply train yourself to pick up and put away your stuff after you've finished working on something, or things, then it becomes automatic. It only takes a few minutes, at most, to put away tools, paperwork, or whatever as soon as your finished. Yes, you have to be organized and have places for your things. It's really a part of the overall job that your getting paid for. And when the person paying you expects it, then you should learn to do it. Why should they pay someone else to clean up YOUR lazy messes. C'mon people!

If you are saying you have storage on another floor that is one thing. If you are saying it is used as storage and testing and as a workcenter for your builds, that is quite another.

I have seen many different scenarios for this combination, including a narrow server room used also as a test center and build station; never have I seen a more disgusting server room in all my experience, lol.

You need to work with your IT managers on getting appropriate space for testing, building, and storage. If your guys are doing the builds in their offices, then you have to face the fact that they are going to have a problem keeping their space tidy after working on builds and troubleshooting tickets all day. You might think about storage cabinets in their offices, OR getting an office space to accomadate cabinets for high traffic items.

Also, I would not suggest using gifts for services rendered as a method of encouragement to keep thier workspace clean. You shouldn't have to dangle the provervial carrot on a stick to get your team motivated to do something that should a part of their job. Mentioning that this will be a big part of what their review will be based on, should be sufficient. Pictures are a good idea as well. people tend to forget precisely to what extent they were a slob.

Here's some guidelines to help:

OLD: If it's not going to be used in 60 days, and you think you will need it, put it in storage.

USED: If it will be used possibly immediately, put it in high traffic storage, closer to your offices. IE. - Cabinet or desk.

TRASH: If it will never get used, either dispose of it or give it away to recycle.

Make sure you have bins to place small parts in, label them appropriately and place the bins inside a cabinet or on a worktable. your guys have to have a place to put the equipment and still be able to utilize it effectively.

Good luck!

R3D

hire somebody to clean up and store the product and boxes etc. then split the cost of the clean up between the offenders. After awhile they should get the picture.

You need to decide what is more importiant.
Even though I try to 5S my workspace, I find it's toward the bottom of my list as I am at nearly everyone's beck-and-call, and rarely get to leave on time (normally go home a hour late daily). If I took the time to organize and clean to a visually appealing standard, I would literally have to do in in place of something else.

The good news for me:
1) my office has a door so my boss asks me to keep it closed when plan tours are taking place (a "Authorized Personal Only" sign from my former job adds to the effect)
and
2) I normally work several days of our december shutdown week, so I perform a decent annual cleanup.

My colleagues are forever leaving scrap lying around with the good stuff. Trouble is you can't tell some bad parts till you fit them, and if you fit an intermittent problem in you can end up with a lot of head scratching. There is NO excuse for not keeping your workplace in a semblence of order. In fact most of the muppets ask the rest of us for parts as they can't trust what's near them. Just bin it or make them evaluate it.

As for breakdown... If someone can't do their job it ain't my problem. One warning then take action. I don't care beyond that and certainly wouldn't lose sleep over confronting anyone about it. Stop covering up for the lazy gits and get them off their butts now!

My colleagues are forever leaving scrap lying around with the good stuff. Trouble is you can't tell some bad parts till you fit them, and if you fit an intermittent problem in you can end up with a lot of head scratching. There is NO excuse for not keeping your workplace in a semblence of order. In fact most of the muppets ask the rest of us for parts as they can't trust what's near them. Just bin it or make them evaluate it.

As for breakdown... If someone can't do their job it ain't my problem. One warning then take action. I don't care beyond that and certainly wouldn't lose sleep over confronting anyone about it. Stop covering up for the lazy gits and get them off their butts now!

Our management looked at our workshop area, decided it was untidy, ditched the lot, good & bad, and removed the workshop! Problem solved, from their perspective! Those little bits that we had hoarded never solved a problem ever again, but the place LOOKED GOOD! Three years on, we are still looking for odd parts, for old machines, & taking forever to complete simple tasks ... DOH! Perhaps a bit of mess has to be tolerated!
regards
PeeVee

After many years of working as a diesel mechanic, I find this is a rather easily solved problem. Clean up after yourself after every job. It only takes a minute or two. Put your tools in place so that you can find them readily available on the next job. Throw out/recycle as necessary. That hardware that doesn't work now won't work 2 months or 2 years from now. Toss it.
Everything that's important, you've learned in kindergarten - if it's your mess clean it.
Tideness isn't something complicated. It's the same as having a shower daily, not just when a review comes around.
Time to grow up, boys and girls.

If a messy desk denotes a messy mind. Then what does it say if you have an empty desk ???????

I know the feeling. Everywhere I work, things are messy.

Many working hours are lost through time spent looking for a CD or having to clear a space to put a PC on your desk for repair.

One point I'll make is that technicians seem to have all the time in the world to browse the web or chat to mates using Messenger, but they never have time to put tools back in the toolbox, packaging in the bin or CD's back in the filing cabinet.

A bit of discipline is needed.

I know the feeling. Everywhere I work, things are messy.

Many working hours are lost through time spent looking for a CD or having to clear a space to put a PC on your desk for repair.

One point I'll make is that technicians seem to have all the time in the world to browse the web or chat to mates using Messenger, but they never have time to put tools back in the toolbox, packaging in the bin or CD's back in the filing cabinet.

A bit of discipline is needed.

I Run a computer Sales & Service Company and i am a neat freak, My Technical department was a mess but i got i quickly resolved, I Used the following method which i designed myself.

1) Salaries & Bonuses are tied to the following
a) Work Area Neatness & Tidyness 60 %
b) Work Attitude & Ability 25%
c) Punctuality & Attire 5 %
d) Other 10 %

Every one Kept their Workstation Clean because no one wanted to lose 60 % of their increments.

regards

David Martin

Cleaning up after doing a job is a fundamental of good practice.The diesel mech above is a good example; if you've ever had to work with old diesel engine oil and the thick black mess it leaves, you soon know why it's better off working clean. I think not all our techies have had the proper foundation in training to work clean and smart( maybe that is something the industry should look at).I agree that some do have to do the job in less than perfect conditions but my experience is that in that bad environment it is more necessary to clean up the workspace after every job. I have also seen that once you instil this into your staff the time taken is minimal and the environment is better all round.It takes as much time to put your tools, parts etc in the wrong place as the right one. I acknowledge the fact that this infers a degree of organisation of said tools and parts etc to be easily available and to hand, but that should go without saying if you want an efficient department.
I also acknowledge that management is not always sympathetic to the needs of the repair facility but that is no excuse, as far as I'm concerned, for allowing the work environment to look like a junk yard.
And one last thing would you get your car fixed at a workshop that looked like you describe your desktop engineers workspace?

You lack balls. If your reports are not performing in the manner you need them to, correct it. If they don't respond to requests, discipline them.
You say that seems excessive, then perhaps your own lack of commitment to your stated objective is the real problem here.
Decide if this isssue is important or just your own personal rant. If it's important, enforce it. If not, get over it.
We all have different styles. Some are neat, some are not. Judge results, not your biases.

I don't disagree with a bit of mess, but comparing tech work to surgery and using that as an excuse for not being orderly is overdoing it. After every surgery, they do clean the operating theatre.

Even though I buy into the "some mess required" philosophy, I think the description in the original blurb indicates a long-term disorder. And while I don't adhere to the need for spic'n'span work areas, I have seen the long-term refuse effect and have to say it isn't really defensible. It's just lazy; and, consequently, it's one of the reasons IT techs take so much heat from other branches. The guys who sign the cheques are frequently bean-counters, after all, and they view the chaos through their perspective.

A lot of techs seem to be proponents of the "I can find it in the known pile" philosophy. There are a lot of workplaces today where that simply doesn't cut it, and hiding the gold under a mound of manure isn't an effective way of defending one's job in the current market anyhow. A middle-ground is where the desk looks like something exploded until the present task is done, after which you sweep away all but the required debris. Anything else is ineffecicient.

As for advice, which is what the chap was asking for, unless the other tech's workplaces are spilling into yours, it isn't your problem. If the common traffic areas are filled, ask them to shift it to a safer spot and then move it yourself if they can't be bothered. Each to his own in the corral. Ultimately, it is the job of a manager to impose standards.

You have two problems: one is that your people are valuable and know it. It is expensive to hire and train new people, so existing people generally won't move a muscle over a "talking to", or even blatent threats.

Another is in your management mentality. People are not motivated to DO something by offering discipline, with rare exceptions. Many creatures are that way - just try whipping a donkey to get him to move and you'll see what I mean. But offer him a carrot and he'll follow you anywhere. You need to find a "carrot" to offer your people as an incentive to clean up their workspace.

Not knowing your environment or your people, I can only guess at what the best "carrot" would be. Perhaps have a monthly contest for cleanest work area (on average), and the winner gets a free lunch. Or perhaps they will be more motivated by recognition or status, such as a certificate on the wall or some sort of title. Best of all, make it a team effort - not in a competitive way, but in a way where the whole team can benefit if they all work together.

If you've worked with these people long enough, you should know what makes them really tick. Use it to your advantage.

if men have a different take on it..but the last thing on my mind is cleaning my desk before i go home to clean the house.

as for the all the people who are saying to just get on with it, its nice they have a job that allows them time..i wonder if they get coffee breaks as well? i bet they do..cool..

ah, i've thought of geting out of the game, but then i think no..i like it..and just because this job is keeping me on my toes, doesn't mean all jobs will..

i have my stuff stored electronically, but "they" like to have papers in binders..

ugh..that post was just the last thing i needed on a monday morning after 5 hours sleep, coming in to frantic calls that the system had crashed..

hence my annoyance. normally i don't pay them any notice..i reckon in a few years when i'm thier boss i'll make em pay..

hahaha

take it easy Tig..
:)

Is your team doing routine jobs the same week in and out? Or are they doing something different all the time? When you are doing the same thing it makes sense to organize things so that everything is ready to go. If you want to see examples try working in a retail environment or restaurant for a little while. There everything has to be cleaned and organized and kept so.

If you are constantly trying to build something new, discover new processes, etc, then some clutter has to be accepted. Mad scientists have to lay all the pieces of the puzzle out in front of them to study the problem.

If you want a suggestion, the only thing I can suggest is deciding how much clutter is good for your team. (I am assuming your are the boss/leader.) Then find convincing reasons why this is so. (can find tools, parts, etc if organized). Then discuss this with your team. For this to work you will have to allow them time to clean/organize/tidy (or whatever you want to call it). Last let them do it. If you organize things they will spend forever looking for the stuff you moved. If they do it they will think of the organization as theirs.

Just an idea.

There are plenty of techies that keep a neat, clean desk and work environment and plenty of non-techies that have so much junk, pictures, piles of paper and other detritus on their desks and work areas that their work surface has been reduced to that of a postage stamp. It all depends on whether a person is inherently neat or messy. It has nothing to do with their job or how well they perform it.

A manager I know tried to tackle this by showing his staff a good example. His desk was always clean and tidy. In desperation he one day placed a sign on their desks. The sign read: "A cluttered desk is synonymous for a cluttered mind."

The next day there was a sign on his desk. It read: "So what is an empty desk synonymous for...?"

Not giving up too easy, he explained that it is easier to find the right file if everything is nicely archived. The response was predictable... He was challenged to ask for a specific file. He picked a random project and the file was produced within seconds. He commented that they misunderstood the problem. He knew that they are able to retrieve stuff from their own piles of files, but now he wanted someone else to retrieve it for him.

Why? If one of his 'techies' were to become incapacitated (maybe for a long time), someone else had to be able to retrieve the information needed. If they could not retrieve it within a reasonable amount of time, then this manner of working had become a business liability. The manager asked if it is fair to expect that a manager will take measures that ensure that they would have sufficient work in the future? They agreed. He then asked if it is fair to expect that a manager will do whatever he can to reduce business liabilities and mitigate the business risks that staff has introduced. They again agreed (and you could tell that they all knew where this was leading to...)

He then asked them to come up with suggestions for mitigating this business risk by the end of the week, and that he would discuss it with them and ask the team to decide on a final plan. (That way it became the techie?s plan, instead of the managers.)

End of week, the techie?s suggested getting everything filed and they asked for help in setting up and understanding a good filing system. The help was committed to them.

The manager took this one step further. He explained (didn?t threat) that when he looked at staff with regard to career moves, he also considered how long it would take for someone to start in the new position. If someone is well organized, he knew from experience that the hand over to the next person would be easier.

It took a while, but every one of the techie?s became better organized. It went beyond a clean desk. As part of their annual appraisals, they even did a peer review of each other?s files (btw: this was one of their own suggestions).
They regularly asked themselves if they did anything that brought risks / liabilities to the company and would make plans to improve the situation. The original team members have all moved on to other exciting jobs within the organization and elsewhere. Each one of them was easily able to hand over their work (together with the relevant files) when an appropriate career move came up for them.

Once they linked their own future with tidiness and being organized, they managed to switch their mind-set.

I should know... I was one of those techies.

BTW: Pierre F., if you are reading this... Thanks! It was a great lesson you taught us.

I could be 1 of your techies. I work from 7 am till 4:30 pm, cater for a lot of shit all day a zoom off to do something else. It's either this or 7:00 till 15:00 and 1 hour and 30 mins to clean up and create an even better chaos for tomorrow. Just live with it. Techies are driven by technology and not by clean desk policy. Just close the door and blind the windows an stop whining!

I DO have places to store things. If I don't I FIND them or I MAKE them. We are not condoning laziness here...merely pointing out the commonplaceness of Organized Chaos due to the lack of time on our part to file or clean. I'm sure we all try to put things in a semi-organized manner...but that doesn't necessarily mean actually putting the piece of paper in the proper file cabinet drawer exactly at the time of completion due to the fact that you're already immersed in another project. More likely than not it means putting the paper in a file or stack somewhere on the desk or working area. These stacks/files will build up until someone actually says "Oh you know what this project really isn't as high of a priority as I told you...go ahead and clean"
And since THAT doesn't happen too often...we continue in our organized chaos until we find the time ourselves.

In every case this happens in, it's because of a lack of a management plan, i.e. it's the fault of the leader(s) in the company.

First of all you have to have a property disposal plan. Things declared excess to the company need to be gotten rid of without violating EPA and waste disposal laws, and without attribution of wrong doing on the part of the employee (two person sign off on non-usability works nicely - preferrably one IT and one non-IT person).

Second, you have to have a plan for deciding when something is junk. If it doesn't work, that's easy. If it does work, then what is it's expected continued useful lifespan? Is it already obsolete? Can it be disassembled for useful parts? Does it have proprietary information stored on it? Does it have useful software stored on it? OH GOD! DOES IT HAVE CONFIDENTIAL, PRIVACY, OR BUSINESS CRITICAL INFORMATION STORED ON IT??? The answers to those questions point whether it goes in this week's waste disposal, repaired, or parts & software salvage.

Third thing you need is an inventory system for your software. That tells you what you have licenses for, and whether you can move software from one machine to another. As long as your counts match, you're golden. If they don't, you're stealing from someone.

Fourth thing, you need an inventory system for your hardware too. That's company capital, and small, portable, easily stolen, or misplaced, valuables. You don't know if something's been stolen if you don't know what you have. And if you don't have a record of it, it doesn't mean squat to the police. Mfr, Model, Serial Numbers at a minumum!

Fifth thing is you need a spares system. Keeping spares to stuff you don't have any more is wasteful. Maybe that means all you have is an old video card, holder HDD/portable storage device, and a small jar of PC screws in a drawer. Maybe it means you have an entire room of brand new spares. You still need an inventory of all that, and tie it to the disposal program. Tag your spares with identifying information! What is it, what does it go to, what drivers/software does it use? Put the software disks in an envelope and duct tape the envelope to the hardware so they stay together is one way. Attaching a note saying where the software is stored is another.

Let me hit on the second item again. Most hard disk drives are never going to be used again on systems that you are disposing of. They are either past their life expectancy and will fail sooner than later. The best thing to do is do a thorough wipe and then destroy the patters in the drive somehow. Smash and burn works for small disposal volumes, although you have to check for burn regulations in your area. Commercial shredders are even better as the metals and plastics are totally ripped apart, separated and usually the itty bitty peices are melted down for recycling. If you are absolutely dead set on giving the systems away, then you still need to thoroughly wipe the drives first - and not just Ollie North deleting. After you've done that, then you can reload the software you are transferring the licenses for to their new owners.

I had (note the past tense)the same challenge with my church pastor. In a "one horse shop" that is a combination church office/pastors' study, I could never get him to clean his desk...and the disarray spread to the secretary's desk at the other end of the room.

How did I fix it?

I am the church treasurer...and I write his payroll check. All I did was bury his check somewhere on his desk. When he asked why his check was late, I simply informed him that it was on one of the two desks.

Problem solved for me. You can use this same technique...with the co-operation of human resources and the team lead.

You could also have the local board of health come in and mark the area "unfit for habitation" (too many mice in a "clean" area.)

Cordially,
Shirley MacLean's famous...and only...husband,

Roy

Folks, don't you know it is illegal for techies to have a clean desk ? Besides, he who has a clean desk has nothing better to do than keep it clean :-)

The best way to ge tthings done is to start it yourself. Just pick up a few things and put them back in their place and take a duster in hand, you will see lots of hands extending and a number of voices saying "We'll do it". This formula will work for sometime and once it goes back to square one repeat from step one.
This Magic will work in anyplace anywhere anytime.
Matilda

one good solution that we found to be eventualy easy and takes the less time, was to allocate the last 30mins/1hr a day, to sort the daily job clutter. cleared unneeded items that can be stored again.. like parts and equipment, sort paper work according to job / project, for easy reference, do the filing, and whatever is taken from any storage room, is back there in its place (not in a corner to be (eventualy sorted) ... by time one realises that he has to clear less and less things every day.

What a lot of people neglect to understand is that, it may be messy to the outside (other people) but if you were to ask a techie, where something was i bet he/she could go into a pile of cables, or hard drives and find what you need. So stop picking on techs!!! as most systems admins/techs know.. you shouldn't tuck with a system admin we know everything you do mwahaha

Then do your job and take charge.
You do have a health and safety policy in place? Enforce it and if they can not follow the company policy then start disciplinary action.
These people are your workers not your mates, this sort of sloppiness is born out of the fact that they can get away with it.
Try leading by example, if your desk is a mess clean it then kick some ass and if it is not a mess kick some ass.
Before any of you start flaming me for being a hard ass and someone you would not want to work for, don't bother I have heard it all before.
A sloppy work place begets sloppy work.

are not relational. That is, are not attributes of each other.
But, they are indicators.

Oh, what am I saying.

Knew a programmer - the best I have ever seen. His work never had a bug in it; I would study his code to learn his methods. When given a task, he would work non-stop to complete it.
But his personal hygiene was the worst - his chair had to be put in storage when he took a hiatus. He weighed 5000 pounds, and never took a bath, that I know of. Had this huge window fan in his cubicle that you could hear a mile away.

But we have to have yahoos that come up with policies for the good of everybody, don't we?

Why can't you get personally involved instead? Offer to take them out to lunch if they clean up their desk. Get creative.

Gotta go. Said enough.

The first test is whether the productivity of the untidy techs or anyone around them suffers due to the clutter. The second test is whether the clutter where people could trip or get injured creates an unsafe workplace environment. The last test is whether it is against company policy to leave equipment lying around.

If any of these tests are true then order the techs to clean up or face disciplinary steps. If none of the tests are true then accept it.

If this is a personal peeve, reevaluate whether you are not having a negative impact on productivity.

You will need to schedule a meeting. In the meeting you must address your concerns ask for solutions and offer yours. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, in the meeting my hardware Gurus brought forth a few great ideas to help with storage and accessibility. We moved the storage into a central location with benches surrounding it. We made a shelving unit for work in progress awaiting parts, with the work orders attached to the system. The team leader was charged with keeping track of parts on order, and placed the parts with the disabled unit when they arrived.

We followed this up with a every 2 week cleanup period, usually the Payday Friday, where we took 2 hours out of the day, one for a short meeting and the remaining time we toured the area to ?police? and cleanup. We used this to fine tune our storage process, after 6 months of retraining work habits we were able to pull back from the ?policing? and cut the cleanup time down. Was it perfect? No, but we did resolve the majority of the clutter, and found those who are inherently sloppy (check out the inside of their cars sometime, you will pinpoint the slobs from the lazy).

Hope this helps.

Organizing from the Inside Out focuses on personal organization both in the home and at the office, but she also addresses ways of thinking and feeling that keep us from being organized - the psychological side of tidiness. It's not as simple as saying "I'm lazy" or "Face it, I'm a slob." She also discusses handling living/working with people who are not tidy. Her book helped me see how to get organized and more importantly start answering the question "Why am I not organized - what is it that is holding me back? Time, lack of space, emotional attachment to things, etc." It's a valuable read both professionally and personally.
One other idea - look for people and places that are organized and take some time to analyze why they are organized and how they are organized. Julie uses the kindergarten classroom as her example, yet it is worthwhile to observe someone in your own workplace (or a similar workplace) that is organized and figure out how they do it.

At the last place I worked, we had the same problem, only it spilled over into our lab and server room as well. Our manager decided to make every other Friday a day to clean up and get organized. We would put our projects on hold, only answering the help desk line, and everyone would pitch in and we would clean up our desks, lab, server room, etc..... Having a structured time like that really helped.

The IT department is now more looked at as a Service Group to the company. It's needs is often blurred to the bottom of the list compared to other organizational groups yet "IT" is a very important group.

Management should be made aware that the IT department also needs time away from servicing the entire company. It needs time to organize, update documentation, do it's own housekeeping as a department.

Like suggested earlier, we have implemented IT FRIDAY. It is the day IT will do things to benefit themselves, we will not be in service for the company unless it is a critical issue.

Since management have also been stubborn in providing storage space, we have implemented a 30-day hardware disposal policy. It does not get re-used in 30 days, it goes home to whoever wants it or to a local school.

Everybody wins.

You know, I really think that tidiness is good, when you work for a company that doesn't think that every project is important. I am currently working on three projects with their seperate pile of equipment. I am required to work on each project equally so I have all of the equipment out on my desk. Because of the length of the project, I makes no sense to shut everything down each night then pull it out in the morning. I also have to do a fair amount of paperwork and this piles up also. Can I find what I need? Usually yes. Are my projects finished on time? Yes. Is my work sloppy? For the most part no. I don't think that someone desk is a measure of their value to the company. Oh by the way, I do get a lot of flak from my co-works, my boss and his boss but they understand that I get the job done.

I have been a Manager/Techie for a very long time and have kept my work area very tidy. A tidy and organized techie is a methodical person which spills over into a very effective technical person.

A techie who does not keep their work area tidy is generally a person who is not very organized in the way they do anything and as such waste valuable time not taking a methodical approach to troubleshooting techniques. You've seen them pounding away at a keyboard for hours at a time trying everything under the sun to resolve a problem. Oh yes eventually they will find the problem but after many a wasted hour and yes the piles on their desk continue to be layered one on top of the other.

Fix the problem once and for all by tying tidiness to a SLA like a raise or performance evaluation, or both.