A Message to B. Obama

Is pare your_shit down to that.

The US President isn't either a member of TR or a reader of TR so I very much doubt that he'll get to see your message. ;)

Col

So much for the "independent tea party"-scam.
Make the tea party frauds put their foot where their money is - [b]repeal the patriot act[/b].
Then they can start talking like they're not republican suck-puppets.
Only then.

that's all i got to say

I couldn't have said it better. That was perfect.

AV

It was intentional.

not just the country.

Namecalling and temper tantrums won't do you any good you know.
Take a deep breath, center your thoughts, be the better man.

The problem with your vision is exactly that : it appeals to people who have stuff because it says "I made this, I don't need to worry about the others".
Problem is the others have you outnumbered.

That's why the society redistributes wealth - because the others will rise up and take it themselves otherwise, and that's bad for business. Your vision is Somalia.

He really got you expecting a front of opposition?
Remember: Just because things are bad, it doesn't mean we have to start agreeing with Max on other things.
Max is pushing the lie that Obama did this.
There's sweet F A Obama could have done to prevent all this, and still the US politicians think they can keep playing political games with it. It makes me sick that republicans actually cheer at the prospect - thinking blame will hit Obama. Thinking they can use all this misery to finally screw over the poor and gild the hell out their own friends.
That's what makes me sick. And that's why Max can expect to hear a thing or two when he pulls out his BS-hose.

What Phelonious Munk said is OK when addressed to people who understand how things got to where they are... but when it's latched to the side of the Palin for Persident wagon, it becomes a sick joke.
That's why Max got the response he got, and why you needn't fear it.

Now, tell me about your childhood.

So you consider Obama, Pelosi, and Reid to be Republicrats? Who do you consider to be a "true" Democrat?

Hop aboard the [i]Slam Maxwell[/i] bandwagon, James. Everybody else is.

Note: Nobody would ever think that I posted that link because I thought it was funny. Because I wanted to share a laugh. No, I wouldn't do that!

I've said this before and I've said it again.

There is no Red, there is no Blue, there is only Green.

The real power lies in the lobbyists, the PACs, and the slimy sea of money that greases the wheels of Washington.

Those with the money have the true power, and they feed and egg-on the partisan fight. The divisiveness the name calling and the hate are a clever diversion to grab the headlines so people are all riled-up.

When people are all riled up they won't notice how special interests are quietly poisoning our water, sending our jobs offshore and making record profits while the middle class suffers.

This slimy money is fed to both political parties, and, I might add, the Tea Party movement is a big consumer of it (the Brothers Koch).

Special interests are quietly pushing through lots of bad stuff: factory farming, prisons as a business, more pollution, lax food safety standards.

Let's not even discuss companies like Haliburton and KBR who profit from war and the clear evidence that the decision to invade Iraq was hugely profitable. And further, this sea of money comes from our 'Frenemies' such as Saudi Arabia, who we love because they have oil, despite the fact that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from their country.

seems I overestimated you.
*scribble* *scribble* *scribble*
There, don't worry about it, I'll never overtax you again.

coming up with something worth debating rather than your liberal tripe and I'm sure I can provide you a worthy debate.

Sorry, if you can't accept that some acts of politicians can discredit them without meaning that their "opposition" is therefore in the right, then you've been bitten too hard by the US politolobbologist bug. No cure for that, to my knowledge.

They're all wrong. You guys would really have needed a reform movement, but the tea party clearly isn't one. Not anymore at least.

You need a nonpartisan reform movement, one that sees that the whole political culture is sick to the core.

you ask the impossible like it will someday happen. Finding nonpartisan politicians? Ain't gonna happen. Making a world with no poverty or hunger? Ain't gonna happen.

How can you tout non-partisanship when you're so far left that you consider Obama, Pelosi. and Reid to be Republicans in disguise?

when we try to read what we expect, rather than what is written.

I was discussing the moral bankruptcy of the tea party movement - nominally a [i][b]grass roots[/b][/i] movement.
So how can you be surprised that I am not talking about career politicians at all?
You also think, that because I criticize republicans, I must agree with democrats... that's like saying that because I don't like the plague, I must like cholera...
You then reiterated that mistake by criticizing democrat representatives, thinking that this criticism of your perception of "my side" would negate what you perceived to be my criticism of your apparent side...

The change can't come from within, because no-one can be elected without the K street ghouls.
You need the people to ask for, demand, enforce a different class of representatives altogether.
That requires a non-partisan movement. Because the problem is bipartisan.

The tea partiers are just pretending any more.

Maybe I was unclear about this.

I didn't call you shallow, or a parasite, or an idiot. I wouldn't call you any of those things, because I know better. And I think so do you.

If you can't see the difference, I don't know that I can explain it to you.

Let's stop using terms like "Democrat", "Republican", and "Republicrat".

Let's use "liberal" and "conservative" instead.

How can you seriously tout non-partisanship when you consider Obama, Pelosi, and Reid to be too conservative? After all, they are the ones who took the Patriot Act and made it much more intrusive.

Rather than focus on the tea party, why aren't you complaining about the moral bankruptcy of the current administration? Is it because your liberal views align better with the left leaning administration?

It was a joke. Your wording opened the door, so I walked through with an attempted chuckle.

At least I got a laugh out if it.

Get a life, dude!

The end is near.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Is the patriot act conservative?
Is it liberal?
Is bowing down to lobbyists liberal?
Is it conservative?

Conservative thinking is a political aesthetic. A way of thought. One I was raised into, and for which I have much sympathy. It in no way is embodied in the patriot act or in other atrocities visited upon you by your system of government.
I don't know every politician you guys have, but I don't think you have many conservatives at all. Some people did vote against the original patriot act, so maybe you had some ten years ago. Don't know if they're still around though.

Liberal? I don't know what that means. I have only ever heard it as a swear word by people who certainly do not embody conservative ideals in any way.
And then as part of "neo-liberal" which seems to be a creature quite close to those people who use "liberal" as a swear word.

I am not that straw man you think you're beating the shilt out of. Looks to me like the straw man is actually winning, which is a bit sad.

You can't define my stance for me. If you want to know what I mean, you have to try and understand what I say. Not in the framework of your antagonistic expectations, but in the framework of how what I say differs from your expectations. That's a sign that you're missing something. Feel free to ask real questions, but spare me the attempts to lure me into traps.

I don't feel like falling for that.

Some people dislike me on the grounds that they think I get the attention they feel they should be entitled to.
But I don't try to get that attention.
I only try to have some fun, stretch out my neurons a bit.

You seem to feel that I've taken something that should rightfully be yours.
Let me tell you - whatever it was, it certainly was nothing of value. And least of all to me.

You feel like you should be shown respect.
Respect isn't something a person can be entitled to.
Respect, despite the popular saying, isn't even something a person can earn.
Respect is something a person builds in others. By their actions, by their words, by their integrity.
Or tears down. You have torn down a great deal.
Now with me, that's not a big concern. Not just because you don't care what I think... also because I'm not fond of holding grudges, you can always get a second chance with me.
But you're tearing yourself down in the eyes of others. Stop being an ass, already.

Live and let live.

I don't have to define your stance for you; you do it with your posts.

In previous posts you've ranted about minimum wage and how it should be higher. How the Government should force businesses to pay what you think is a "fair" wage.

You've gone on and on about those who make more than you and how you and your ilk should decide how they spend their money since, in your expert opinion, they don't do enough for the poor and needy.

Since you need a definition of a liberal, I suggest you look in a mirror. It will give you an excellent example.

You do know, don't you, that ANSU has no skin in this game - that is, American political issues; but he interjects himself into the debate as though he does. He's no more informed with American politics or our form of government than the cheese-head man in the moon.

He's from Nordic Europe, for Pete's sake! Either Finland or Denmark - the bastion of democratic socialism!

Moreover, those Nordic nations have a population of what? 5-8 million people? They have a common culture, common work ethic, common heritage, common vision, etc. We're about the most diverse nation in the world (maybe along with Canada) - and one with a population of 330 million. What might work in Sweden or Finland or Denmark won't automatically work in the USA, as ANSU argues. But don't suggest that to ANSU.

To make a comparison, to instill his kind of democratic socialism here, it would have to be limited to a state like Wisconsin! Otherwise it's doomed to failure.

And let him have the last word. He'll take it anyway. Look at all the threads and you'll notice that they all end with his last word. Don't bother. He's not worth your time and trouble. He's no more than a pompous, socialist, PITA!

I saw what I perceived to be general propagandizing against the notion of minimum wage as such. And I don't like propaganda, I've lost my country to propaganda like that.
So I acted against that. Not for "higher" or "lower" or even "the same", but against blind directionals.
If you read what I write, I am very much against ideas such as "higher" or "lower".
I feel that decisionmakers must under no circumstances dedicate themselves to directional ideals. They have to do it the hard way, decide what is the desired and/or optimal level of each thing, then strive towards these points.
Direction should not be allowed to exist in politics, except with a well defined target point or equilibrium.

Politicians always go for the easy way, saying simply "We must go that way", never caring about the future time when their direction will inevitably overshoot it's target. By that time the direction has become an icon, a false god to be worshiped without question. It has happened so many times through history.
That's why I get involved in these discussions. To squish attempts at blind direction, to squish attempts to foster unthinking action in the people.
Like that "speak out against [insert whatever direction] when you meet it".
That kind of crap pisses me off. Like I said, underhanded populism like that has cost me my country.

You're right of course. It's obvious that the only opinion he values is his own. But it is rather humorous to see him having to rely on semantics when his arguments start to crumble. ;-)

You learned that Straw Man drive-by attack watching Fox, right?
Fits so well with Max's vein-popping Ad Hominem tirades, too.
I think I can safely let the two of you take over from here. Trolls of a feather and all that.

You can always tell when a liberal has lost the argument, they resort to the Fox insult. I'm surprised you didn't refer to it as Faux News.

It may surprise you to learn that many conservatives can think for themselves and don't need a news station to think for them.

Don't forget to include the Limbaugh or Beck insult with your next post.

being a foreigner, which news channel do YOU listen to to form your opinions about America? You sound like an MSNBC viewer to me.

You're not addressing my actual viewpoints, but rather your distortion of them - straw man tactics are not hard to detect.
And you know, you say stuff like "he's losing" or "his arguments are crumbling" or whatever cripe you say to be annoying and bait me for an overreaction - Ever hear the phrase "Don't say it, show it". You're not showing it.
If you had something of merit to say, you wouldn't be using the bag of age-old dirty tricks.
I'll take my own advice and stop wasting time on you. As of now.

I never insinuated that others here were dumb. I specifically focused on the poster who has shown time and again that he doesn't have a clue regarding American issues.

Anyone who tries to build an entire argument about US health care based solely on stories he's heard shouldn't be taken seriously. And isn't.

I did no such thing, and you know it.
In fact, I told you which kind of the source my example was taken from.
You know what an example is? It's not the basis of an argument, like you appear to think.
And saying "I heard this story that this happens" is ceteris paribus more honest than saying "this happens". I left it to the locals to decide whether or not the example is possible.

You're grasping at straws...

And using high school Latin won't change that fact.

You seem to live in a dreamworld entirely made up of your own expectations.
You must be very afraid of actual challenges.

that you edited your original post. Smart move.

I'd love a good challenge. Unfortunately, OZ doesn't post here any more.

Too bad that effing b'stard jumped ship ;)
Oz, if you read this, come back here so we can keelhaul ya!

I'd be led to think that jdclyde is back in disguise. B-)

now that he has a wingman again... a choir to preach to, what more can one ask?
Haven't seen puppybreath for a while, either.

Now you're really asking for miracles. :^0

BTW...does this make me your wingman, Ansu?

If so, we have to get cool names like in the movie Top Gun.

I want to be "green M&M", cause I get all the girls worked up. :^0 B-)

I've never called him shallow.

In fact, JamesRL is one of the few management types I've heard his ethic and practices...and would want to work for him.

And, PurpleSkys is not a shallow person...and just because she doesn't rant on like you Max...does not cause her to be so. She's a fine lady.

Ok, I'll probably be "Red Commie Socialist", Max will be "the Scoutmaster" and Jp can be "the Haymaker", on account of his choice of sparring partners...

Crimson demon!!! :^0

I can see it now...mama from The Waterboy yellin at you:

"You are the devil!" :^0

Some American will figure out how to sue you in the USA.

We're about keeping the lawyers fat and happy here. :^0

I'm about tired of the system here though. I've tried writing people, calling people, etc. Does no good.

I figure, i can move to Canada and do one of two things:

a) work and get a 2nd pension to retire with in case social security fails

or b) do what my friends in Canada say more immigrants there are doing - have kids, develop a drinking habit, and go on the dole.

#2 sounds better. :^0