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Birthers

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I don't know about you, but I think there is a good segment of our population that has gone mad with the "birther" conspiracy about Barack Obama. I'm glad he finally released his long form birth certificate, but no, it still isn't enough for some people. There must be something sinister about our President. Oh, how did he get into Harvard? He should release is grades and if they aren't up to par, then it must have been the result of Affirmative Action. How low can some people go with this crap.

Talk like this does nothing to solve the problems of our country. Why does our media focus on this issue, as if its newsworthy? How embarrassing this is to me that we have no respect for President Barack Obama and someone like Donald Trump is questioning his legitimacy.

AV

76 replies

by ansugisalas

Apparently, to Trump, the president is pigmentation challenged.
Next Trump will demand that the KKK be allowed to burn some crosses on the white house lawn, to exercise their freedom of expression.

If the populace is ok with this, they'll keep doing it. If the populace rises up and hits them with shovels till they bleed, then they'll stop. There is no in-between.

by seanferd

Is Them the parts of the populace that has been hitting the rest of us with stupid until we bleed? Or is there another target?

by jamesrl

If you looked at the academic records of past presidents, I'm sure there aren't that many great students. Truman dropped out. Kennedy partied hard as did GWB. Nixon on the other hand got a full scholarship to law school.

I think there is no proof that can shake the birthers beliefs, because they aren't based on fact but instinct and fear. Trump was using birthers to get attention.

When I was growing up, we had similar nuts in the conservative party who thought that the Liberal Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, was a closet communist. There were pamphlets circulated. They made great reading after a few beers, real howlers. But there are nuts attracted to every political group.

The real surprise is that someone who may aspire to be president joins forces with them. It shows what kind of mind he has, and its not a flattering portrait.

by gsg

Neither is his hair.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I think if Donald Trump is elected that I'll have to look into living in a cave in the deep woods somewhere and living off of the land and off the grid.

by av .

Why he chose to join forces with the right-wing fringe of the Republican party, I don't know. He could stop the birther debate anytime, but instead continues to fuel it by now attacking Obama's academic record. Its absolutely scary to me that so many people find him to be an acceptable candidate for President. I would die of embarassment if he ever got elected. He sounds more like a mob boss instead of a Presidential contender.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53919.html

I agree that each party has its share of nuts, but the Republican party has been taken over by the more extreme elements. It is no longer the party of Lincoln, its the party of Donald Trump or someone like him. People have lost their minds in this country.

AV

by charliespencer

Like any opportunist, he's decide to stay where the paychecks are larger and the hassles are fewer. So much for that fart in the political wind.

by puppybreath

is why he waited so long. And why he spent so much time and energy preventing people from seeing it. This all could have been resolved years ago if he would have just produced the documents.

He has only himself to blame for fanning the fires for these nuts for so long.

by john.a.wills

make as many Republicans as possible look stupid. After all, he has an election to contest soon enough.

by puppybreath

that may be backfiring on him. The longer he waits in producing documentation, the more people wonder what he is hiding.

by jfuller05

Because he did make some Republicans look radical, ridiculous, stupid, you name it. He was able to distract the radicals from important issues. If he didn't intend any of that, well then I'm wrong and shame on me for thinking that he would such a thing.

by jamesrl

To my no other president's honesty about where they were born has been challenged.

It was insulting. Its like trying to convince the media you didn't have an affair when you've always been faithful.

by puppybreath

there was Chester Arthur but he was challenged because of his father's nationality.

And McCain jumped through some hoops because he was born in Panama. Of course, he just produced his birth certificate and the problem went away. Obama should have done the same and there would have been no controversy.

by ansugisalas

a) Because they don't generally issue that paper in hawaii? And because they don't demand that paper of people who aren't pigmentation challenged - in itself a very valid reason to refuse.
b) This alleged "cover up" is very funny.

by pizza7

I am not a fan of John McCain but at least he was vetted by Congress BEFORE he ran for president. I am glad that Trump brought this out and he is the one who forced the great one to at least attempt to be honest.

Even now, however, the certificate still reads "Certificate of Live Birth". The number on Obama's certificate is higher than a pair of twins born a day after he was. We shall see if this thing we stand the test of time but I am seeing descrepancies already.

Lay off the racist comments. It is in our constitution that you must be natural born to be president. How dare anyone contest him least they be declared racist.

A good portion of the population is suspicious. We still don't have the address where he lived in Hawaii but we do for the 43 previous presidents. Why did it take three years to produce this ? Why did he put out an executive order sealing his documents right after he was elected ? Why doesn't anyone remember him from college ? Why are there people in Kenya claiming he was born there ?

He also claims to be christian but he went to a muslim church on Easter and has been seen praying with muslims.

He has many issues least of which this. High energy prices, high unemployment, ridiculous spending, government growing larger by the day, unneeded over-regulation that is hampering our economy, 3 months to stop a oil leak that could of been fixed much faster, attacking Libya without congressional approval, so on and so forth. This country will not survive another four years of this man.

by charliespencer

Where any non-spam, non-hate speech topic is fair game. If you don't want to read non-technical discussions, I suggest you stick to the main Discussions page or the Q&A, and avoid the segregated 'Water Cooler' forum.

by ansugisalas

I mean, that's what a VP is supposed to do:

[b]Discourage Assassination of the President...[/b] :D

by ansugisalas

I call it tobacky, and I always hang a spittoon around my neck with a nooze.
You can go ahead and call me a dandy.

by av .

I am so liberal, I voted for John McCain in the last election. Not Obama. I was a declared, registered Republican until I gave up that affiliation this year after seeing the quality of the candidates they are offering. You really make me laugh.

Let me ask you something. Are you more concerned with continuing the birth certificate conspiracy or fixing the problems of the country? You're analyzing or read on some website that "The number on Obama's certificate is higher than a pair of twins born a day after he was." and we have FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS of debt? Whats more important to you? I don't care if Obama was born on Mars, he is our sitting President and deserves our respect, plus, he needs to get to work and fix it. I don't agree with his policies, but I do know that he is a very gifted speaker and writer.

"Lay off the racist comments"? LOL. Thats truly funny. I think Barack Obama became President of the Harvard Law Review and graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard because he is very intelligent, a gifted speaker and writer and he worked for it. No Affirmative Action needed to get credentials like that, just hard work. Maybe he got his foot in the door, like a lot of people do, because of Affirmative Action, but so what? I believe in our constitution too, but I believe he was born in Hawaii. What he presented is enough for me and I'm not interested in anything further. You're never going to get the answer you are seeking, you know. Meantime, keep parsing those conspiracy theories while our country crumbles.

You know what, I don't care if Obama is a Muslim. Isn't this country supposed to be about acceptance of other Religions? Whats wrong with a President thats a Muslim? Do you think he will impose Sharia Law? LOL. It just gets ridiculous after awhile, Pizza7. Meantime, we're in a whole lot of deep sh*t in this country. I want to quote from Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense under GWB and what he told the troops in a speech once. It wasn't a popular statement at the time, but I think it applies to this situation. "You go to war with the army you have - not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time". Think about how important it is for all of us to get together and fix the problems we have. Yes, there will be great and maybe ugly debate, but the compromise is what will move our country forward.

Think about this Pizza7, no matter who is elected next time, the people from the other party are not going to like the policies. Should we rip them down and take pot shots at their weakest achilles heel or try to find the middle?

My point is that we need to put our differences aside (Liberals or Progressives and Conservatives or Birthers) and concentrate on the real issues. Our government has to work together to do that, Republicans and Democrats, etc., and this birther issue is just dividing us more We're not going to get anything done, just going down the tubes fighting each other. How is that good for the country?

AV

by ansugisalas

the Religious Waffen Right-Right is concerned that Obama may in fact be of unnatural birth, either Jesus Mk 2 (Which would make them look bad, just like Jesus Mk 1 made their pharisean predecessors look bad - they hope to implement the same solution, too) or the Antichrist (as described in the False Gospel of the Degenerate John, aka the Book of Hallucinations). :D :D
:D

by jamesrl

You claim this isn't a site for Liberals to vent, then you go ahead and vent. I guess thats ok, because you should have more rights that Liberals. For the record, I've been a member of the Conservative Party of Canada for 34 years, but who is counting.

As for the number on the certificate, do you think maybe back then numbers were preprinted on forms? Could those forms be out of order? I don't think you have proven anything. And Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Perhaps you can explain why this is the first time someone's birth place has been questioned?

All he is legally required to do is prove he was born in the US. Any court would have judged the short form birth certificate that he produced year back sufficient evidence. Why do you require more than a judge? What is your reason, what is your motivation?

He has years and years of church attendence to show he is a christian. I don't know if he has been to a mosque. But if he has so what? I've prayed at a funeral at a Jewish Synagogue. I watched a Rabbi and Roman Catholic Bishop pray today at the wedding of William and Kate, and I don't think they converted to the Church of England.

As for the rest of your screed, well the recession started before his term. The well that leaked was drilled under rules set by Obama's predecessors. Did Reagan seek approval before he bombed Libya? I'm not saying he is in the running for greatest American President, but me thinks he isn't the worst.

by ansugisalas

Even in Libya we're seeing a whole new style of leadership; he actually did get a coalition together... one that numbered more than five countries!
And he was smart enough to let France be in the limelight, letting the French feel good about their international importance (a sore spot for them), while reducing the US image of being a meddling world-cop and a unilateral steamroller.

And, unlike Clinton, he didn't just throw in the B52s with the cruise missiles, he had the balls to put people on the job to do it right - reducing the US image of being distant and uncaring of civilian casualties on the other side.

This is a major change, and the best part is, it took me a while to realize it. So, he's capable of changing things without making a big noise about it, which is also a clear sign of statesmanship. He's changing things for the better, but he's not doing it for personal glory, so he's doing it quietly, letting it work better.

by jfuller05

Whether he's a Muslim or not. I wish they (extreme Republicans) would stick to the important issues right now. He's proven he's a U.S. Citizen now let the grown-ups do business I say.

*drops two cents on floor*

by charliespencer

So freakin' what? It's Kennedy all over again, catching hell for being Catholic. It's Romney now, getting flak for being Mormon. As both of them and many others have shown, having a set of religious beliefs doesn't mean an elected official is going to dance to their tune of their religions' leadership.

Disclaimer: I have not reason to think Obama is any religion other than the Christian he says he is. As a non-practicing atheist, I don't really give a Shi'ite.

by jfuller05

but I'm sure that's what some folks will go to next. I just want him to do his job.

"I don't really give a Shi'ite."
lol

by charliespencer

If there was any REAL evidence Obama was born outside the US, Hillary Clinton would have used it to disqualify him and get the Democratic nomination herself.

It's as ridiculous as the one about his father influencing him to Islam. Obama saw his old man only a couple of times after his first birthday; that was enough to override the near-continuous influence of his Christian grandmother throughout his developmental years? Bull.

Obama has enough legitimate flaws to attack without having to dredge up an unsupported, oft-refuted conspiracies.

by ansugisalas

Since
A) it would draw the level of debate up above their voters heads.
B) it would draw their own legitimate flaws into the firing line.

by pizza7

25 More Impeachable Crimes

Obama???s term as Board Chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in the mid-1990s where he and his colleague, unrepentant terrorist William Ayers, misused over $300 million in private donations meant to improve the education of minorities. Instead of spending the money on traditional learning programs, Obama and Ayers directed the funds to local community activists who wasted it on trying to ???radicalize??? the students. An official review of the program found that it was a complete and utter failure.
As an Illinois State Senator, Obama directed tens of millions in state money to slumlords Valerie Jarrett and Tony Rezko meant to provide for housing for low income, minority tenants in return for political donations. Due to shoddy construction and nonexistent maintenance, the majority of the units, after less than 10 years of use, have been rendered uninhabitable.
Michelle Obama???s politically connected $316,000 VP of Community Affairs job at University of Chicago Hospitals while her husband was serving as US Senator. She was responsible for the design of an illegal ???patient dumping??? scheme that prevents local African Americans from using the emergency room at one of the nation???s finest hospitals and instead redirects them to community healthcare centers where they often receive substandard and inadequate treatment. The high paying position was eliminated soon after Mrs. Obama???s departure from the university.
Millions in illegal contributions accepted by the Obama campaign during his presidential run. Credit card filters designed to screen out foreign money and domestic donors who had maxed out their legally allowable limits, as required by US law, were intentionally switched off.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton???s ongoing effort to create international small arms accords that will subvert the Second Amendment rights of US citizens.
The Russian-American START treaty signed by Obama in April 2010 that has no chance of making it through Congress unless passed during the lame duck session. Not only does the treaty hamstring US missile defense development and make it difficult to modernize our rapidly aging nuclear weapons arsenal, it represents unilateral disarmament by the US in return for nothing more than Russian ???good will???.
Moving control of the Census Bureau from the Commerce Department directly into the White House where it is managed by Chief of Staff Rham Emmanuel.
Providing de facto amnesty to illegal immigrants by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Director John Morton, who has prohibited ICE officers from enforcing US immigration laws outside the institutional setting. The ICE union has subsequently taken the unprecedented step of voting ???no confidence??? in Morton???s leadership.
Attorney General Erik Holder???s failure to sue sanctuary cities for violating US immigration law, while at the same time proceeding with a lawsuit against the State of Arizona for enforcing US immigration law.
Failure by Obama to treat the takeover of sovereign land in Arizona by the Mexican drug cartel as an Act of War.
Refusal by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Administrator David L. Strickland to release results from an internal investigation into the Toyota sudden acceleration problem that contains findings favorable to the foreign automaker.
Ongoing efforts by FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski to gain control over the internet in opposition to a judge???s ruling and Congress???s will, by reclassifying internet companies as telecommunication providers thus making them subject to FCC regulation.
Obama and his environmentalist allies preventing US industries from taking advantage of our rich natural resources including oil, coal, uranium and timber.
Obama???s month long stint as UN Security Council Chair in 2009, the first ever by a sitting U.S. President. Not only did this action give credibility to an international organization ruled by tyrants, it also called into question potential dual loyalties by our President.
The Obama National Security Strategy released in May that allows for the targeted assassination of US citizens including ???homegrown terrorists??? without due process. It has also been described by the Kremlin, which knows quite a lot about these kinds of things, as a ???new law put forth by President Obama capable of seeing up to 500,000 American citizens jailed for the crime of opposing their government.???
Obama executive order signed in Dec. 2009 that allows Interpol to operate in US territory with impunity and without oversight by Congress, the courts, FBI or local law enforcement.
Deployment of 1,200 National Guard troops to border states where they will not, under any circumstances, be used to stop the flow of illegal aliens or drug traffickers.
A foreign policy that can be best described as the turning away of our allies, in particular Great Britain, Israel, Honduras, Poland, Columbia, and Taiwan, and the embracement of our enemies.
The State Department using $23 million in taxpayer money to help transform Kenya into a constitutionally communist nation where the freedom of speech is limited and private property rights are subservient to ???social justice???. In addition, the recently adopted Kenyan constitution allows for the practice of Sharia Law in some regions, ensuring women will not be guaranteed basic human rights.
Obama???s refusal to hold press conferences and answer difficult questions as expected of a US President. Never in the modern age has there been a President so unwilling to answer to the American people for his actions. Considering the public???s growing anger towards his progressive policies, it is doubtful Obama will ever hold another press conference again.
The $26 billion bailout of the teacher???s unions that Obama recently signed into law. Not only was the money taken from food stamp programs for poor Americans in order to fund Democrat special interests, a portion will be skimmed off the top as union dues and funneled to Democrat political campaigns this fall.
Obama???s involvement with Governor Rod Blagojevich???s attempt to sell his old Illinois Senate seat. Even if Obama didn???t try to purchase the position for his chosen replacement, slumlord Valerie Jarrett, at the very least he had to know the seat was for sale.
Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar???s plans to take control of millions of acres of public and private land in Western states by designating them national monuments. These efforts are being carried out in secret and without input from Congress, state and local officials and current land owners.
Obama???s use of taxpayer money to pay for Democrat propaganda including $15 million for The American Reinvestment and Recovery Act road signs and $18 million for the perpetually misleading recovery.gov website.
The lasting damage Obama has done to the Jewish people. In his less than two years in office, there has been an outpouring of hatred towards the Jews the likes of which I thought I would never live to see. From Helen Thomas telling the Jews to ???get the hell out of Palestine??? to heavily armed, terrorist flotillas destined for the Gaza Strip described as ???peaceful??? by the western press. From throwing stones at little old ladies leaving synagogue in Sweden to the thousands of Jewish families fleeing Muslim persecution in France, a sea change in world public opinion against the Jewish people has been accomplished during Obama???s term. Because of his refusal to speak out against virulent anti-Semitism being pushed by left-wing politicians and Islamists around the world, the harm to the Jewish people will surely outlive his presidency and could have terrible, unforeseen consequences.
Convicted felon and Chicago real estate developer Tony Rezko???s purchase of land adjacent to Obama???s house in Hyde Park, IL. In 2006, Rezko sold a 10 foot strip of his property to Obama for $104,500, rendering the remainder of Rezko???s $625,000 investment too small to be developed and, for all intents and purposes, worthless.
The provision of Obama campaign donor lists to ACORN in 2007 and 2008, more complete than the ones he gave to the FEC. ACORN used the lists to raise money for Obama???s election from donors who had already maxed out their legally allowable contributions.
Widespread voter fraud including voter intimidation, ballot stuffing, falsified documents, and threats of violence against Hillary Clinton supporters committed by the Obama campaign and ACORN during the 2008 Democrat primary election. For more information see my CFP article How Obama Used an Army of Thugs to Steal the 2008 Democratic Party Nomination.
Obama???s refusal to release his long form birth certificate which would show conclusively that he is a dual citizen and therefore not constitutionally eligible to serve as President. Obama???s college records, which have also not been released, would also contain information regarding his dual citizenship status.
Protecting union interests over those of GM and Chrysler bond holders during bankruptcy proceedings, forcing investors to accept millions of dollars in losses in direct violation of bankruptcy laws, money to which they were legally entitled.
Preferential treatment given to minority and women owned car dealerships by Obama administration officials as part of the auto industry bailout program and the forced closing of a disproportionate number of dealerships located in rural areas that did not vote for Obama.
Unsubstantiated firing of Corporation for National and Community Service Inspector General Gerald Walpin for exposing Sacramento Mayor and Obama supporter Kevin Johnson???s misuse of an $850,000 AmeriCorps grant.
Purchase of Congressional support for the passage of Obama???s healthcare bill including the ???Cornhusker Kickback???, ???Louisiana Purchase??? and having the Department of Interior increase water allocations to the Central Valley of California to secure the votes of Democrat Reps. Dennis Cardoza and Jim Costa.
Lying to the American people by promising they could keep their healthcare coverage if they wanted to, when in reality tens of millions will be forced out of their current plans.
Attempted bribery of Rep. Joe Sestak with job offers to get him to drop out of the Senate primary race against Sen. Arlen Specter.
Directing the EPA to unilaterally set carbon emission standards, thus bypassing Congress which opposes Obama???s energy reform bill. For more information see my CFP article Forget Cap and Trade: EPA Regulation of CO2 Emissions Will Begin in 10 Months.
The Obama administration???s statement that a panel of experts had agreed with their plan for a 6 month Gulf Coast drilling moratorium, when in actuality none of them had supported the measure.
Bullying BP to set up a $20 billion slush fund to compensate Gulf Coast businesses and residents affected by the oil spill, to be administered by an Obama political appointee without any judicial or congressional oversight.
Implementing a third oil-drilling moratorium after the first two were thrown out of court, creating a de facto Gulf Coast offshore drilling ban in opposition to two judges??? rulings.
Establishment of a commission to investigate the Gulf Coast oil spill that contains not one oil industry expert and whose transparent purpose is to push a partisan political agenda rather than investigate the cause of the disaster.
Obama???s policy of intentionally not securing our nation???s borders, in opposition to Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution which calls for the President to protect states from foreign invasion, in an attempt to blackmail Republican support for comprehensive immigration reform. In essence, Obama is holding border states and residents politically hostage during a time they are being overrun by a narco-paramilitary invasion.
Department of Justice illegal race based policies regarding voter fraud as exposed by former Justice attorney J. Christian Adams. This includes the dropping of voter intimidation charges against 2 Black Panthers brandishing weapons in front of a voting location in Philadelphia and the stated intention by political appointees to ignore voter crimes committed by African Americans, Latinos and other minorities.
Department of Justice purposefully allowing some states to continue their disenfranchisement of military personnel serving overseas in direct opposition to the 2009 Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment (MOVE) Act, which was established in response to the more than 17,000 military votes that were not counted in the 2008 election because ballots had arrived after the deadline.
Recess appointment of Donald Berwick as head of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services without even a token attempt to put him through the Congressional nomination process, signaling that Congress???s constitutional obligation to vet presidential appointees means nothing to Obama. The same can be said of the 30+ Obama administration czars.
Spending $23 million of taxpayer money through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) to support a constitutional referendum in Kenya in spite of the Siljander Amendment, which makes it illegal for the U.S. to lobby for abortion in other countries. The Kenyan referendum was partially written by Planned Parenthood and is designed to legalize abortion in that nation.
The participation of the Obama administration in the firing of Sherry Sherrod from the USDA without due process because of publicized out of context remarks she made at a NAACP meeting in March 2010.
The White House sham investigation of BP???s involvement in the release of the mass murdering Lockerbie bomber from prison. The Obama administration not only knew beforehand of the Scottish government???s plan to set Abdel Baset al-Megrahi free on ???compassionate??? grounds, they even sent a letter to Scottish authorities stating their preference for his remaining in Scotland over his transfer to a Libyan prison.
The canceling of 77 properly filed oil field development contracts approved by the Bush administration by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, preventing the extraction of up to 3 trillion gallons of oil buried under Colorado, Utah, Wyoming and North Dakota, more than enough to end our dependence on foreign oil and supply the U.S. with its energy needs for hundreds of years at current consumption rates.
Investigations by the Department of Homeland Security to determine the political affiliation of people making Freedom of Information Act requests and the subsequent delay and even altogether ignoring of requests made by Republican affiliated individuals.
The hardest to prosecute in court, but worst crime of all that Obama has perpetrated against the American people is the economic tyranny his socialist policies have wrecked upon our nation. While Obama has been living the life of a king including frequent 5 star vacations, dozens of concerts at the White House and endless rounds of golf, all paid for by taxpayer money???the increased transportation and security costs alone are in the millions of dollars???he has called for the rest of us to endure economic sacrifice. The annual trillion dollar deficits and borrowing of 41 cents of every dollar of federal spending by Obama is leading to unsustainable and potentially catastrophic national debt.

by jck

You indeed bring class to an otherwise wingnut-turning thread. :)

by nicknielsen

What will the birther idiots come up with next to justify (to themselves) their hatred of Obama?

by hal 9000

Did all of the major networks interrupt their Live to Air TV with a Announcement that ABL had been killed?

What i find amusing is the way that the media has jumped on the bandwagon with this crap and completely ignores the [b]Important Stuff.[/b]

Col :^0

by nicknielsen

It's important to them, don't you see. It's just like the original invasion of Afghanistan. Even though the US was doing something before the smoke cleared from 9/11, that something wasn't visible; we had to be [b]seen[/b] to be doing something.

by av .

I look at it as a touche to Donald Trump. Obama has proved himself as a leader and its going to be hard for anyone to poke holes in that in the future.

AV

by hal 9000

If an idiot tells the same lie long enough eventually some people will start to believe them. ;)

Obama is up against things as he's Not Like Us so he couldn't have been born in the USA. After all he's Black so there is no possibility that he's an "Americium." :^0

Col

by ansugisalas

Saying "He ain't no son of mine!"

...because he, like, thinks he's God :D (You know your joke is bad when you have to go back and explain the point :p)

by jck

He's half black. His mother was lilly white mid-America as they come.

That's the big thing that gets overlooked because of broad generalizations based on personal appearance. Kinda like someone thinking that a guy walking into Sam's Club in Fort Smith, Arkansas, in a dirty, bloody pair of overalls and a orange hunting hat after driving up in an old truck is just some idiot.

Anyway. Obama didn't want to be labeled as black. He told the black rights groups that when he ran for president. And really, I don't blame him. They just want to use him as a tool to get their political way, rather than further rights for all people.

Oh by the way... that guy at the Sam's Club... was Sam Walton.

Looks don't make the man...and neither does an adjective. :)

BTW...hi :D

by pizza7

These are valid arguments. Do you happen to notice our bad economy ? high unemployment ? gas prices hitting record levels ? 3 months to clean up the oil spill ? what hypocrites you libtards are. you were crying when gas prices were high under GW but now it is a good thing. oh and record spending levels. this idiot is spending more than all past presidents COMBINED.

what has this man done to correct our economic problems in the last 2 1/2 years ? Reagan turned around the damage from Jimmy Carter in about a year to 18 months and he did it by lowering taxes and regulations. funny how that works as opposed to the same old tired liberal spending and taxation.

you claim that no one can point to anything legitimate about Obozo and yet here it is. so please...enlighten us as to what this man has done for us. make your arguments and present your facts. let's see....he has taught us how to pick our NCAA brackets, gone on countless vacations, 52 rounds of golf at the 2 year mark so no doubt we can add to that total, parties at the white house every Wednesday, the most expensive inauguration in US history, and on and on we go !

oh we of unwashed hands....we should not complain....

by ansugisalas

If you serve up internet-cache crap like that, with no checking or validation, with countless agitprop methods in use, then you have no credibility.
Anyone can write a list like that, and fact-checking it would take forever, so that means you're a windbag and tool for putting it here.

by jck

A) economy was going bad under the conservative administration

B) gas prices had gone up under the conservative administration from about 1.46 a gallon in 2001 to over 2.60 a gallon in 2006.

C) oil spill cleanup didn't take that long cause of either party...it took so long (and isn't even really cleaned up...go look at U of GA's pics of the seafloor core samples sometime) because BP didn't have the equipment...hence why mostly what they did was use 40 year old skimming practices and push a bunch of chemicals in the water that just made the slicks sink or break up.

D) I never said gas prices being high was good. it's further crippling our economy. while transportation, retail, and other businesses suffer because of increased operational costs...and regular people have to struggle to pay to put fuel in their cars...Rex Tillerson is blowing smoke out his butt about how $2B a year in lost tax breaks split amongst the 5 largest oil companies who profit over $200B a year combined...is just gonna kill them and they won't be able to explore or drill or keep people employed.

E) You're wrong. Obama's not spending more than all past presidents combined. Bush spent some 6T+ by himself (debt went from 4T to 10T under him).

F) Reagan is the one who began massive spending in the first place and driving up our national debt. Took a Democrat (Bill Clinton) to balance the budget...then Dubya came in and ruined that.

G) You should do some research sometime about how many days Bush spent per year in Crawford on his ranch, and how much that costs flying him back and forth every couple of weeks.

BTW, your hands aren't lilly white either. B-)

by av .

It makes a difference because it proves your point. I've heard of almost all of the incidents in your very long post, but there is no conclusive evidence that a crime was committed. I don't know, maybe you've seen something I haven't.

You know what I think? Obama was handed an economy that was in a great recession. I think he has done a good job getting us back on track, because of the depth of the recession. Our economy had almost collapsed under GWB and thats what Obama got when he took office. I will never forget Henry Paulson's urgency that we had to bailout Wall St. We almost went off a cliff. GWB gave us TARP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program right before he left office. I actually think it was the only way out, but it was a slap in the face and a wake up call to Main St.

If McCain was President, his policies wouldn't have done any better in 2 1/2 years because we were in such deep ship and also so affected by the global recession. Its a big, deep hole that we have to climb out of.

My feelings for Obama are mixed. I think the economic stimulous plan was largely ineffective, but overall we are at least starting to grow. I can't blame him for gas prices. There is very little he could do about them. He did pass Obamacare, and thats major. But think about this, the leading Republican candidate, Mitt Romney, passed universal healthcare for Massachusetts. It was a success, even though now, Mitt Romney is trying to distance himself from his own decision because it goes against Republican values. An entitlement program, heaven forbid!

Obama has done good job, considering what he had to work with.

AV

by nicknielsen

That you never learned critical thinking.

As for your points, they are pointless. That none of them were considered important enough to address until he became President says much about their validity. For those that would conceivably be impeachable offenses, none of them occurred while he was President; the remainder are simply Tea Party screaming points.

So, you expect him to undo in 2-1/2 years what has been coming for the past 30? Were you aware that the only time in the past 30 years that the budget has been balanced, a Democrat was President and his Republican sucessor undid all that work? Were you aware that if the Republican President and Congress had left tax rates alone in 2001 and 2003, we wouldn't be where we are today? Our debt would not have doubled during the Bush administration, and we might even be running a surplus.

And "libtards"? Oh, ye of little brain. Do you not understand exactly how small-minded, ignorant, and yes, stupid, that makes you sound? If you can't hold a rational discussion, if all you can do is call names, take your Social Security check, go home, and watch some more...oh, wait, you can't. Beck is off the air. Guess you'll have to find somebody else to make you feel good about yourself, since you are obviously incapable.

by charliespencer

his actions while at the state level aren't impeachable offenses. He certainly can't be impeached for his wife's actions, regardless of what level of government he occupied at the time. Mind you, -some- of what you list -may- be eligible for legal prosecution, but that isn't the same thing as impeachment.

After looking at those three, I decided you don't know what constitutes an impeachable offense. See if this helps, from Article II, Section 4:

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

But I'll give you credit. Weak as your 'copied and pasted' laundry list may be, it's better than the 'Birther' arguments.

by ansugisalas

wait, I meant to say, no need to be civil.
Twas merely a seagull, passing quickly, wussying out at the first hint of triple-A.

by pizza7

You have nothing. Like all liberals when it comes down to debates you people run away and have no answer. you live in an alternative universe my friend. You still have not answered my question. If Obozo is so great then why are our problems worsening ?

I am not a spammer. I am one busy guy and it would take me a long time to write this out. It is a well thought-out list and it is the truth...which you can't handle.

don't give up your day job...assuming you have one.

by jck

since I am, by jdclyde and maxwelledison's declarations... the leftist wingnut and liberal nutjob here.

Are things worsening?

- New housing starts are up
- Oil prices have stabilized at $100 per barrel
- The economy is in fact growing in the USA

What do you want to debate?

The fact that Republican governors are rejecting monies from the US government that would employ 1000s of their citizens for years, provide tax revenues for their states, and improve public services for their people?

That Congress is fighting like a bunch of retarded adolescents over issues that common, everyday Americans could sit down and work out within an afternoon?

BTW, I have a day job. I've been employed since I was...um...11? So, don't go stereotyping moderates like myself as people who can't hold a job or don't want to work. Not everyone with a heart and compassion is a lazy arse laying on their couch taking a monthly welfare check.

Just like not every conservative is a loud-mouthed, pious, name-calling, self-righteous, daft git.

by ansugisalas

If I could get paid for kicking the asses of the likes of you, I'd be a _fucking_ millionaire...
Your passive-aggressive _bullshit, copied straight out of your "neocon_nitwit defense CliffsNotes" - well, let's just say it leaves me unimpressed.

You, on the other hand, sound like you're pooping your pants.

My apologies if you're anal retention challenged, but you're still not winning.

by ansugisalas

I remember the Republicans making a stink about that clause, but it was the only way the tax payers could get their money back out of the greedy banks, who by the way, had helped cause the mess that was strangling the entire world economy.
Of course, that's not what the Republicans want is it? I mean, in their view Little People's Money should always go into Big Business pockets, right? And with as little value for money as possible.

by av .

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-20/bailout-of-wall-street-returns-8-2-profit-to-taxpayers-beating-treasuries.html

The fact that we had to bailout Wall St. after their reckless lending and Credit Default Swap games, didn't sit well with most Americans on either side of the aisle. In the meantime, Main St. lost big time and there were no bailouts for us. Every taxpayer took a huge hit financially in their retirement savings and home equity. People lost their jobs and salaries remain flat to this day. Today, you are lucky to have a job because it isn't so easy to get another one. Its going to take many years for Main St. to recover. Wall St. is doing just fine though and sitting on lots of cash.

AV

by charliespencer

The VP is to attend funerals for minor league heads of state, the ones where the host country doesn't put out a very good buffet. The crew of Air Force Two has had the motto, "You die, we fly" since Bush the First was Reagan's Veep.

by jamesrl

Talk about Hubris and arrogance, here is his statement;

After considerable deliberation and reflection, I have decided not to pursue the office of the Presidency. This decision does not come easily or without regret; especially when my potential candidacy continues to be validated by ranking at the top of the Republican contenders in polls across the country. I maintain the strong conviction that if I were to run, I would be able to win the primary and ultimately, the general election. I have spent the past several months unofficially campaigning and recognize that running for public office cannot be done half heartedly. Ultimately, however, business is my greatest passion and I am not ready to leave the private sector.

"I want to personally thank the millions of Americans who have joined the various Trump grassroots movements and written me letters and e-mails encouraging me to run. My gratitude for your faith and trust in me could never be expressed properly in words. So, I make you this promise: that I will continue to voice my opinions loudly and help to shape our politician's thoughts. My ability to bring important economic and foreign policy issues to the forefront of the national dialogue is perhaps my greatest asset and one of the most valuable services I can provide to this country.

I will continue to push our President and the country's policy makers to address the dire challenges arising from our unsustainable debt structure and increasing lack of global competitiveness. Issues, including getting tough on China and other countries that are methodically and systematically taking advantage of the United States, were seldom mentioned before I brought them to the forefront of the country's conversation. They are now being debated vigorously. I will also continue to push for job creation, an initiative that should be this country's top priority and something that I know a lot about. I will not shy away from expressing the opinions that so many of you share yet don't have a medium through which to articulate.

I look forward to supporting the candidate who is the most qualified to help us tackle our country's most important issues and am hopeful that, when this person emerges, he or she will have the courage to take on the challenges of the Office and be the agent of change that this country so desperately needs."

Thank you and God Bless America!

Donald J. Trump

by av .

It does me. You know why, James? He was just wasting our time. He never intended to run and was just interested in exploiting the "birther" controversy to get publicity for himself.

He did a huge disservice to the US by turning the Republican party's nominations for President into a laughing stock for shills, and to quote from President Obama, "Carnival Barkers".

AV

by jck

Of course, it's all a dog and pony show. Trump was just more obvious.

All the world's a stage...

by jamesrl

I think even dumb people should be able to run for the nomination, what would make me vomit is if he won.

He actually is deluded enough to think that he has influenced the race. He somehow takes the birther issue, where he was proven wrong, and turns it into a win. He thinks he has changed the national discourse.

I think its entirely possible he was uncomfortable with the idea that when you run for President, you have to make a complete personal financial disclosure, and some have suggested that it would show he isn't as wealthy as he tries to portray. He also isn't used to situations where he doesn't dominate and control the press. He was actually taken aback by all the negative attention he got from the press. Exactly what was he expecting?

We had a similar situation in the 80s, where a eccentric millionair ran for leader of the conservative party. No one thought he would win, even the pros he hired to campaign for him. But to be honest, I think he lost credibility because the more we got to know him, the less we thought of his abilities.

by av .

Comedians loved him, but his ego couldn't take it. I would have liked if he stayed in awhile longer so we all could see all his tax returns and how much money he's really worth.

Well, take heart, Palmie, now we have Newt Gingrich, the man without a party because he p*ssed off the Republicans. Wonder what he bought for up to $500,000 at Tiffany's and didn't pay for? :p

AV

Edit: Having a bad night with spelling.

by av .

Maybe Charlie will throw his hat in the ring now that he's been dissed in Tinseltown.

What a Republican lineup for President! Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty and maybe, if we're lucky, Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin. Palin says she has the "fire in the belly". I think she should just cut out the Moose burgers and hot sauce. :^0

AV

by pizza7

Your savior Clinton started office with the national debt at $2.77 trillion and left office 8 years later and it was $5.77 trillion. Go look it up. How is that "balancing the budget". Bush spent $4 trillion in 4 years and this smuck spent that in 2.5 years. There is no end in sight. Have you seen his proposed budgets ? How is this change ? He wants to spend $1-2 trillion more thant we take in every year ? Where is our money going ? To projects like $24 million to study the drinking habits of Chinese prostitutes ? I thought this guy was going to be different ?

I am not a GW fan and dislike many Republicans - but still I don't care what someone else does. It does not justify your actions. GW had a built-in office at his ranch. Barry is out golfing all the time. Have you ever seen a president come on TV to give us his NCAA Picks ? Who cares ?

Gas prices doubled in this administration. A record 52 million people on food stamps. Record foreclosures that are still doing on. 15 million people out of work. The Demacrooks have been hijacked by the communists/socialists/marxists (its all the same crap that has failed mankind time and time again). The Demacrooks know only how to spend, tax, and regulate us to death. That is why the economy dies when they are in power.

Govenor Jihndal was the only one working on the oil leak. There are modern techniques for this sort of thing. There were too many beaucracies out there....too many chiefs to go through. We denied the foreign help intially.

the housing crisis was largely caused by government intervention. government has no business owning mortgages. Fannie and Freddie were the biggest purveyors on the sub-prime mess. They have the most mortgages. since when did owning a house become a right ?

socialist spreads poverty. we are seeing that now.

by charliespencer

I love the way some people expect the federal government to regulate gas prices. If the gov't tried to regulate prices of other products, those same people would be screaming about socialist policies. Nobody expects regulation of the price of the vehicles that use the fuel. Nobody demands Uncle stick his nose into the tire manufacturers or quickie oil change businesses.

But gas itself? Oh, we need the feds to get involved with that. Why?

Sweet light crude oil is an internationally traded commodity. Everything pumped in the US goes on the global market, short the tiny amount headed for the strategic reserve. US refiners compete with every other country to purchase it, regardless of country of origin. That includes the Asian markets that cater to demand from markets that will soon be larger than ours. That's why pumping in ANWR doesn't make much sense; the output wouldn't stay here, and would be such a small drop in the international pool at to have no impact on world prices.

Gas prices are out of the government's ability manage on a daily basis, and should be. Besides, prices this month are still lower than they were under Busch three years ago (not that I held him responsible for them either).

Exactly what do you expect the federal gov't to do about an oil spill? Waste taxpayer money to keep equipment on hand to cover every possible disaster? How many shut-off valves would you like us to keep warehoused and maintained? How many ships should we have mothballed in ports? How many booms would you like to have on stand-by, and in how many places should they be stored? Mostly, how many expensive experts should we employ to sit on their hands and wait? In short, exactly how much money do you want the government to spend to be ready for a disaster the likes of which last happened over twenty years ago? Weren't you griping about how much the feds spend? This isn't a hurricane that happens a couple of times a year; or a tornado that can occurs a few times a month. Those make economic sense to prepare for. Just EXACTLY what did you expect ANY administration to do about the Gulf spill? The feds have no equipment or expertise; the best thing for them to do was get the heck out of the way.

Oh, and the housing policies were supported by both parties going back several decades. Plenty of blame to go around on that one; no reason to lump it all on the current administration.

Now, go back and examine your argument for inconsistencies. You can't demand the feds control gas prices and then complain because they control housing. You can't bitch about the money they spend and then demand they be prepared for an event that happens every couple of decades. As to presidents offering NCAA picks, Nixon used to call the Redskins with plays, Reagan showed up at the Daytona 500, and Ford's golf game was literally a national joke. Bush may have had an office in Texas, but his fishing and chopping wood got every bit as much coverage as Obama's basketball injuries. Presidents do have interests outside the Oval Office.

by nicknielsen

The federal budget is the annual spending of the United States government. The national debt is the money the government owes to private lenders. If the budget shows a surplus, the government can use that to pay down the national debt. If the budget shows a deficit, the government must borrow to meet the obligations, adding to the national debt. Got it now?

Some other points:

1. Clinton and the Gingrich-led Congress handed George W. a balanced budget, with the Congressional Budget Office forecasting surpluses (allowing us to pay down the debt) until at least 2010. Bush and the Republican Congress proceeded to knock that budget out of balance by reducing tax rates [b]while we were at war[/b]. Now, some of those same Republican Congressmen (including John Boehner and Paul Ryan) are saying we have to balance the budget, and eliminate the debt, and it's Obama's fault it's a problem. WTF? Why wasn't the debt a problem under Bush?

2. The national debt was just under one trillion dollars when Reagan took office. When Bush I took office eight years later, that debt was over $2.6 trillion. When Clinton took office in 1993, the debt was about $3.7 trillion (not 2.7 trillion as you say). Bush II got the $5.7 trillion debt and proceeded to increase that to over $9.9 trillion, almost doubling it in only eight years, and adding nearly as much to the original one trillion dollar Reagan debt as did his predecessors over the previous twenty.

3. The only time since 1980 that growth of the national debt has slowed significantly was in the last years of the Clinton administration, when the budgets were balanced.

4. Part of the surge in the "Obama debt" is due to including stuff in the budget (and subsequently, debt) that Bush II [u]didn't[/u] include, such as funding for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but when you base it on faulty knowledge and defective figures, it really makes you out a fool.

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt - in-depth discussion of national debt
http://130.94.230.21/debt_history.htm - year-by-year history of national debt
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html - graphs of national debt over years since Reagan

by charliespencer

"He actually is deluded enough to think that he has influenced the race."

No, his adherents are deluded enough to think he has influence. He's smart enough to know that if he keeps stringing them along, it will be that many more viewers for his TV show. The bigger new contract that resulted from the publicity was his goal all along.

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