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Here's an interesting thought

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I came across this today. Not sure if you've seen it, but thought it'd be worth sharing.

http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/

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What has the United States done to the rest of the world to warrant so much money going into Military/non-military and national security!?
There's also s few other very interesting statistics as well!

Share your thoughts.

21 replies

by charliespencer

US politicians stuff money into the defense budget tagged for specific projects or expenditures. In some cases the Pentagon actively opposes these items, but the pols want them anyway because the projects bring or continue jobs in their state or district. There are plenty of weapons systems the military doesn't want but that Congress buys anyway so they tell the voters about the money they brought home.

Also, in our current political climate, suggesting reductions in the defense budget will get the speaker called 'soft' on defense. Many of the same people who feel more money buys better defense raise hell when others try to make the same connection regarding education.

by nexs

And it sounds like they're doing it for both good and bad reasons... But knowing politicians, the goodo reasons are more than likely a cover for the bad reasons.

I guess the only way you can get into the 'big chair' is by being a 'hard ass'. Is there no room for forward thinking and sensible decision making?

by charliespencer

In order to avoid the political fallout from making the tough decisions, several years ago Congress created a temporary 'Base Realignment And Closure' (BRAC) commission. BRAC was composed of retired military personnel and former elected officials; there were no active elected representatives on it. The committee did the research on what military bases should be closed and made a list of recommendations to Congress. Congress could either reject or approve the entire list as submitted, with no changes allowed. This let them reduce military spending and eliminate unneeded facilities, but go back home and tell the locals that it was all BRAC's fault.

In short, they passed the buck. Unfortunately, this is the only time that approach has worked. They've had several committees and commissions look at long-needed changes to the tax code, but those recommendations go on the shelf ignored.

by jamesrl

The military-industrial complex is well entrenched, and drives up the costs of defense. You could easily argue that with all the takeovers that happened in the 90s, there are fewer firms and therefore less competition than before. And the US rarely buys items that aren't invented in the US, even if there is an inexpensive foreign alternative.

In the end that lowers the numbers of troops in boots.

by jck

Of course if those corps are not making all that earmarked money, who is gonna buy all those fancy, American-made cruising boats? ;)

They're helping American industry... *nudge nudge wink wink* lol

by nexs

Make the rules if they want to.
But all i can do it sit back and hope it all pans out for you guys in the end..

by jck

But so long as:
- People must declare candidacy and campaign and become targets for PACs, SIGs, et. al., bribes and influence peddling will exist
- Elected officials must meet with lobbyists, bribes and influence peddling will exist
- Anyone other than an individual voter can donate to a campaign, bribes and influence peddling will exist
- Legislation can be written with a specific, stated intent but have amendments and content that don't apply to the intent, bribes and influence peddling will exist

It's sad. We're supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

We're far from it.

by nexs

Couple of questions:
-Why can organisations donate to an electoral campaign?
-Which channels must ammendments pass through before they are added into the big book of do's and don't's?

by ansugisalas

by nexs

Even though the soldiers are overseas, the tax money (ie: their wages) are still put back into the US economy when they return home.
Unless, of course, they spend it all on imported goods and/or ebay items from overseas.

Come to think of it.... the types of people that join the military are generally the patriotic types... and it's quite un-patriotistic to buy imported good.

Eat that, Patriots!

by ansugisalas

The soldiers are overseas, among other things, to look out for the interests of the super rich. People who work for companies that own big parts of the (overseas) world.
So, that's part of why there's such a big military budget - there are a lot of superfluous military tasks carried out. But it turns out that the rich are using other people's money for it, since they themselves pay less than 20% taxes on their income.

by nexs

Rich people are always going to have clout. As wrong as that is, i think we've discussed it enough to realize that there's really no way around it other than moving toward the communistic path.

What I don't understand is why the more wealthy people are being charged more by the taxation office. As far as i'm aware, the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) has rates per income bracket; the higher the income, the higher the rates..

But, that being that, I'm sure people find ways around it, like putting all the income onto the businesses and taking a minor percentage as 'salary'.
And I'm sure there are other, more elaborate, ways to beat the system that I couldn't possibly have thought of...

by ansugisalas

"What I don't understand is why the more wealthy people are being charged more by the taxation office."
The point of the article was that the super-rich were being charged a lower de-facto percentage than the "only very very rich", the "very rich" and the "well to-do"...

by nexs

You're right... I meant "What I don't understand is why the more wealthy people aren't being charged more by the taxation office"

Thanks.

by charliespencer

If you can't vote for a candidate, you can't contribute to his / her political campaign.

Corporations, unions, non-profits; anything other than human beings can't register or vote, and should therefore barred from contributing.

If you aren't registered, you can't vote and should therefore barred from contributing.

If you aren't registered in that state / county / district / precinct / country the candidate is running in, he doesn't represent you and you can't vote for him and should therefore barred from contributing.

If you can vote, you can only vote for a single candidate, and therefore you should be barred from contributing to more than one candidate to 'hedge your bets'.

It's that freakin' simple.

by jck

[i]-Why can organisations donate to an electoral campaign?[/i]

Like Palmetto said...Chase Bank and Cal-Berkeley and AFL-CIO can't cast a vote. And, taking their monies and spending it on a politician(s) is taking their shareholders/taxpayers/union members' money and spending it without their consent.

When you buy stock in Chase, does that stock purchase agreement state "We're gonna take part of the dividend before we distribute it, and hold it back to fund the candidate we choose for you"?

The allowance of an organization to take money (that otherwise would be in your pocket) and give it to a candidate not of your choosing...is a form of taking away your right to choose who your representation is.

As for what channels does it pass? Well, legally they tell you congress...but, they also get passed by all sorts of special interests so that peoples' political careers don't get railroaded by lack of campaign funds.

P.S. to Palmetto: I'm behind your reform law, as long as you take out "donation"...cause, they would figure out how to legally make it a "contribution" or something to get around "donation". ;)

by jck

is...what the wealthy pay from their income during the year vs. what they actually ended up paying out-of-pocket after they file their return and get any refund.

Most wealthy people have tons of write-offs.

If you took the top 400 incomes in the USA and figured out they ended up paying 30 percent in the end, I think you'd find out we should have no national debt.

400 x $270.5M each = $108,200,000,000

30% x $108.2B = $32,460,000,000.

And, that's just individuals. Now, go look at the top 10 US corporations. They grossed some $1,774,645,000,000. If all corporations and companies were really paying 30% of what they took in for their products/services (like normal American people do on their "revenue" i.e.-pay), we'd have no national debt.

Taxes paid per into the system are not what the total out-of-pocket is. Just ask Warren Buffet. He's said it himself. He paid about half the taxes (17.7%) on $46M in 2007 without trying to avoid paying them than his secretary did (about 30%) on $60k.

This is a guy who, in 2007, would have been in the 35% federal tax bracket at $46M of income alone. Yet, he paid about 17.7% overall taxes?

We need to simplify the system and make it equitable for people and companies alike. This is proof.

by nexs

How can "anyone other than an individual voter" bribe politicians during thei campaign?
You've explained why it _shits you, and how they SHOULDN'T be able to do it...

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