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XP wireless internet problems please help.

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Hi everyone. So I have this problem. I downgraded my laptop to XP and I even have all of the drivers. All is working well except that my wireless internet disconnects after about 5 minutes and will not let me reconnect to my router as it "cannot find wireless networks". I know that everything is working fine as I am on this computer and its working. I have read about and had a problem before like this, however it was related to zone alarm which has never touched the computer having the problem. I dont think I have spyware either since it is a fresh install and I was barely on the internet. Please help guys.
Thanks in advance.
Jeff Z.

27 replies

by older mycroft

Because if you don't, even being "[i]barely on the internet[/i]" is long enough to have a raft of infections. Moreover, if you are using the laptop to communicate with TR, your online exposure is increasing all the time.

So having 'downgraded' from, I assume Vista, when you got all of the required drivers did that include your installed wireless card ?

What is the make and model of your laptop ?

by jeffzz421

Yes I did get the proper driver for my wireless card. Its a broadcom 802.11 card. The laptop is a compaq f572us, which I found all the drivers for on this forum actually. Way to go afterdawn, now i just need internet. And I have pc cillin installed now, was just using the windows firewall until that time. I had some malware on my desktop and know it can mess things up, so i looked through the processes in the taskman, since I have found spyware there before, but everything looks ok. This is so wierd.
Jeff Z.

by older mycroft

So wherever you heard that it's a load of crap.

Spyware by definition 'spies on you' so it's hardly going to sit openly within the area that is scanned by Task Manager.

If you are confident that the driver is correct then you have to wonder why it worked OK for five minutes then began to misbehave - the same 5 minutes when your laptop was unprotected from any viruses, spyware, malware.

I would advise getting hold of Spybot Search & Destroy, Ad-Aware, AVG Free Antivirus 7.5 (if you can still find it), AVG AntiSpyware, AVG Anti-Rootkit, and a decent firewall like ZoneAlarm.

All the above scans should be performed while in Safe Mode (because you'll have difficulty killing a malware that is already resident on Normal-Boot memory-space).

ANY brand new fresh install of any M$ operating system should be kevlar'd up the hilt before a user takes it anywhere near a live internet connection.

by rkuhn040172

Way to go. Scare the crap out of him.

I've left Windows PC's on-line for hours, if not days on end without a firewall, and never had a single infection of any type.

I think the questions/comments here are lacking enough detail.

A Windows PC behind a NAT router/firewall and running Windows firewall is more than enough. ZoneAlarm is overkill for someone simply browsing the web while installing and tweaking a fresh install.

Should one surf all their favorite porn sites that way? No.

But give me a break. Going to HP's, Dell's, TR's, etc websites while rebuilding a PC isn't going to do anything.

If you think the probability is that high, I would suggest some real estate somewhere in the middle of Iowa...something akin to a former Titan missile silo.

My advice would be to try a USB wireless stick (made for XP) just to see if it really is the PC or if it is driver related. USB wireless sticks go for about $10-$20 around here anymore.

If the USB stick works, I'd say it's probably a driver issue with whatever it is you are trying now.

If the USB stick does the same thing, well obviously, I'd say it's something to do with the PC.

by Former member

NT.

by older mycroft

And any work of fiction can be fashioned to serve the writer's purpose quite easily.

Mmm... "[i]on-line for hours, if not days on end without a firewall, and never had a single infection of any type[/i]"

You are either the luckiest user in the history of computing, or a fabricator of untruths.

You may however be neither! Your system may be awash with malware and you're just too dim to have spotted it yet.

If the NAT router/firewall and Windows firewall is more than enough, why not peruse all the w4nk sites then? Either the firewall system is good and is failsafe - or it is neither.

"[i]But give me a break. Going to HP's, Dell's, TR's, etc websites while rebuilding a PC isn't going to do anything.[/i]"

It is, if the laptop in question used to play host to an OEM install of Vista. Perhaps if you had read the entire thread you would have realised the true nature of the question.

As for your USB wireless solution - it really doesn't help either way, does it ? ;)

[b]Better to scare the crap out of him, than feed the crap in to him![/b]

by Former member

NT.

by rkuhn040172

I've been in IT for 9 years now and I think I know when my machines have something on them and when they don't.

My USB solution does help further by eliminating some of the possibilities.

But just like the grand tradition of TR, when someone on here says something that one doesn't agree with, the wagons get circled and the bashing begins.

I invite you to setup a XP or Vista box on the Internet with nothing other than a NAT hardware firewall and the Windows firewall. Unless you are a professional porn surfer, you can go years without any malware infestations.

by nepenthe0

Check the signal strength by hovering the mouse over the wireless network icon in the system tray. If the signal strength is low, that is the most likely reason.

Wi-Fi is short range 2.4GHz radio, essentially worthless beyond 150 feet from the access point. Here are some tips that may help reduce dropped connections with your laptops:

1) A vertical booster antenna for the router can enhance horizontal coverage by ~50%

2) If the router is located one floor up or down from the laptops, consider relocating the router to the same floor

3) If the wireless adapters are 802.11g, program the router to broadcast only in G mode

4) Enable SSID broadcast in your router setup

5) WPA encryption is more squirrely than WEP, but WEP is less secure

6) How important is encryption for your use of these laptops? If there are no likely snoopers within 150 feet, consider disabling encryption. With encryption disabled, connection is faster, data transmission faster, and there are fewer dropped connections

7) If you disable encryption, it would be wise to enable the MAC address filter in the router setup. Enter the MAC addresses of the wireless adapters, and the native MAC network card addresses of any desktop computers

8) If you disable encryption and enable MAC address filtration, periodically check for intruders. With Linksys, open the router setup, and navigate:

Status > Local Network > DHCP Client Table

The only MAC addresses posted on that table should be your own equipment. Any other MAC address is an intruder, and you can banish that person by adding that MAC address to the naughty list:

Wireless > Wireless MAC Filter > Prevent PCs listed below from accessing the wireless network

9) check for 2.4GHz radiofrequency interference near the laptops (cordless telephone base stations)

10) check for RF interference (fans, motors, hard drives, etc.)

11) check for shielding (metal cabinets, etc)

12) If still no connection, try disabling the proprietary wireless chip driver and enabling the Windows driver. Sometimes the Windows driver works better.

13) Before blaming the router, try a USB wireless adapter such as Linksys:

http://tinyurl.com/3vs8r7

My embedded Sony notebook wireless chip started acting squirrely, and I decided to simply disable it and go with Linksys. For the past couple of years, my Linksys router/USB adapter have worked seamlessly.

That about exhausts my suggestions.

Rick/Portland, OR

by jeffzz421

Where do I begin with this one. Yeah online for hours with no firewall? Let alone idiotic that post was no where near the point either. I have a wireless usb adapter, (great one) and it prolly would work fine but the whole point is using my built in card. Thanks for the near nazi propaganda, and right on mycroft (think thats it). Anyways everyone here was way off on how to fix it and why even I had this problem to begin with. Upon installing XP i put on pc cillin, since whoever said that a new install should be locked up in kevlar before it ever even sees internet connections is right. I dont just go into taskman btw, but i recently found some harmless yet existing spyware on my desktop that i removed easily after identifying it. Anyways I once had a similar problem regarding loss of connection after a minute or a few with an old installation of zone alarm that was not properly cleaned up. The "truvector internet monitoring service" had still been hanging around. After reinstalling zone alarm and re uninstalling everything worked fine. How does this relate you may ask since I had no zone alarm on my laptop. Well luckily i used my hunch that a service may be mucking things up. Upon investigating nearly every active service in my system I stumbled upon one I have never seen before. Spyware, NO. It was the Nvidia ntune service. For some reason this either does not come with the vista driver package or it doesnt muck things up because I had never seen it before. Upon looking at what it does, it said that it allowed administrators to access my computer remotely to get system information, or something along those lines. This only was installed after I performed an ntune, on my system, which I had done recently. GHEESH, I can;t believe a company as good as nvidia would make some garbage like that. After deleting the service my video card/drivers/config still works perfectly and my wireless is working like a champ. I feel super lucky that I found this out on my own since there was NO other info on the net about the same problem. Maybe that why my computer comes stock with Vista. Then again, I fixed it and vista blows so its all good. Thanks to everyone who even attempted to help me. This hopefully will solve lots of mysteries out there.
JZ

Oh, and I wanted to add a little something. TechRepublic RULES!!!!!. Thanks a lot everyone. HP hung me out to dry since I reverted back to XP. I got more help and instant feedback here than anywhere else. I LOVE THIS SITE!

by Former member

I like that. :)

by older mycroft

To be honest, you did feed us your system information in a rather piecemeal fashion.

Glad you like the site - maybe you had a laugh into the bargain. I particularly enjoy it when Mussolini's great-grandchildren pop in for a spot of verbal diahorrhea!! :D

Hope to see more of you. ;)

by gasboi

Hi.

This is sometimes caused by a glitch in service pack 2. Are you running service pack 2? If so google wireless internet patch xp sp2 - download and apply.

Hope this helps

by jeffzz421

So Im not going to totally concede to the idea that just a NAT router and windows firewall is necessary, since I have yet to see windows firewall do something productive, but I admit I didn't totally know what rikk was talking about. Yes in a business environmnet, that situaion would prolly be frowned upon, however I did not fully know what a nat router was. I myself use a cheap router (ten bucks) and use no encryption because I protect all of my computers very well at their level. (I know not a good idea, ssshhh). Anyways I am a fan of minimal installations and making slow computers fast again, so for my personal use I'll definitely look into a NAT router. And yeah mycroft I was bad a feeding you guys my info but I hate it when ppl post a huge log about stuff that has no relation to the problem. You didn't need to know that I have 1.5 gb of ram, but the nvidia gforce go 6150 could have definitely helped. My appologies to all.
JZ

And rikk, here is my question for you. How does a NAT router stop everything bad from getting in. I download torrents, and in order to get one it would of course have to get past the router, would i be unable to dl torrents with viruses since it would block them, or would it let the entire torrent through?

And another edit to this post, I just thought of one more thing. I got this computer (desktop not the one that startes this thread) on the internet from a gamer who had custom built it. He never had any Av stuff on board since he had been behind something called "black ice" I believe, which was going by your same beliefs Rikk. However even though it ran fine when I got it, upon my first spyware scan there were definitely some things that had slipped through. So is your NAT router 100% effective against everything?

by older mycroft

Your initial post was fine (if a bit sparse on detail).

However since I am currently running a gaming rig with an Nvidia 8800GT which gives me Nvidia 'ActiveArmor Firewall' -(which can be a bastard to set up correctly)- if you had initially mentioned the Nvidia I might have told you what you ended up figuring out yourself. No matter, a successful conclusion was reached.

I occasionally encounter torrents and the virus WILL come straight through since nothing can identify it until the torrent is 100% complete. Vigorous scanning regimes of finished torrents BEFORE you open the folders or activate the files, will provide as much protection as the scanner is capable of.

Of course if by default you do not employ any anti-virus scanning, then whatever is lurking in the torrent - is now lurking inside your system.

FYI - Torrents are a particular favourite for transmitting Netbots, which can make use of your opened Ports while you happily download torrents, blissfully unaware that they even exist. Windows Firewall wouldn't even notice a Netbot.

Glad to have been of little or no service at all - but the slight increase in the peers' body temperature was worth the laugh! :D

by rkuhn040172

Of course a router of any kind isn't any kind of magic pill.

If one downloads torrents (all legal of couse) such as music, movies, software, etc hey let's face it, nothing can save your sorry azz. :) Live by the sword, die by it.

Anyways, more seriously, the idea of a router/firewall is many fold but the primary reasons are:

1) NAT addressing - you get an internal IP address as opposed to an external one masking your identity from the outside world

2) Hardware is typically more hardened than software. Putting border security on hardware makes more sense in addition to most routers/firewalls are specialized OS's such as even Linux versions that are extremely hardened.

3) Many, many more reasons such as port blocking, IP blocking, MAC and IP address filtering, egress support, port redirection, DMZ's, virtual LAN's, etc.

No software firewall is as good as a solid hardware one.

So, to answer your question, no of course not a router, firewall, whatever will not cover your azz in any and all cases especially if you engage in certain types of activities.

However, my point from the get go was simply that even a $50 D-Link, LinkSys, Netgear, whatever along with the Windows firewall is more than sufficient to protect you while you are rebuilding a PC, downloading the patches, hunting for a driver or two, etc.

Mycroft's advice was solid, just premature.

Security is about layers, the more usually the better with the exception of adding additional complexity and increasing management thereof.

Again, my point being about your original post. A hardware router/firewall along with the Windows firewall is more than enough for rebuild a PC.

You may, depending on what you use your PC for, add additional layers.

If you surf porn, add more layers.

If you download torrents, add more layers.

If you host an external application like a website, portal, etc, add more layers.

But if you're a grandma who does nothing but reads her email and plays solitaire, a hardware router/firewall, the Windows firewall, and a good AV suite like AVG or Norton or whatever will last for years and years.

Hey, it's called risk management. The lower your risks, generally the less measures you need. The higher the risks or the more valuable the assets you're protecting, the more measures you need.

Bottom line, just don't let the Linux crowd or the anti-Windows crowd, or the I'm a grumpy old man crowd freak you out into thinking the world as we know it is ending tomorrow.

by older mycroft

If you find it difficult to coexist within a public forum, that is entirely your affair.

At present, as far as I can discern, you and that idiot above would need at least one more wagon before you could even form a wagon-triangle.

But don't let me stop you from trying.

However, apart from Peconet's doubting post, I had rather formed the opinion I was flying solo on this one. ;)

Hardly a circling of wagons, but THANK YOU for comparing me to a force to be reckoned with!

Oops, silly me - "[i]that idiot above[/i]" [b]was YOU![/b] So how did you manage to lose your wingman - or haven't you ever had one? :^0

by nepenthe0

My computers appear to be well protected against passive malware infestations using just Windows Firewall and a NAT router. The [i]Shiels Up![/i] test reveals 100% [i]stealth[/i] mode:

http://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2

Whenever I have attempted to defend this in the TR Forum, I've been pummeled with abusive commentary regarding my intelligence and pedigree.

AV applications transform an excellent machine into molasses. The most effective means of improving performance is to jettison Symantec System Works.

Rick/Portland, OR

by older mycroft

The OP comes along with a definite, undiagnosed problem and happened to mention that he had gone online with limited security protection + the Windows firewall (which you can spit peas through!) but only for a couple of minutes - clearly what I should have done was tell him to carry on doing exactly the same because there's at least TWO peers on TR that believe that you can surf the net for years and never catch any infection.

The mere fact that I mentioned a list of alternative means of security, all of which are easily down-loadable and also free of charge, was reckless and ill-judged on my part and I shouldn't have done it.

What I should have done was dismiss the poor bloke from my mind, stifle my own self-beliefs, ignore my thirty years experience and sit back, safe in the knowledge that the guy was panicking over nothing.

Now that we are all agreed on our future course of action, what do we do from here on in? Card games? FPS's?

Oh, and which one of you two jokers is gonna propose the disbanding of TechRepublic?

Hmm ?

by Former member

In a working environment?. If so please give proof. No company would do this to their working servers or computers, period. Why? because tax records have to be kept along with everything else that has to be documented.
Your post in a working environment would be seen as a joke and laughed at. Now do you want to repost and make me wrong on this?. Go on give me a post to laugh at. :) :)

by older mycroft

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=264385&messageID=2504688

Here is a peer who condescends those that practice the usage of anti-virus scanners, having successfully run his systems without any anti-virus software for years - and never had an attack from passive malware.

Yet he has a practice of regularly Ghosting his systems for the 'unexplained' times when they misbehave!

I warrant an anti-virus scanner would provide the explanation.

by jeffzz421

Yeah it puzzles me that software that came with my graphics card and ran after I "tuned" my system was what was stopping my internet connection. When I was running the tune it of course froze and restarted my computer, although it says this is normal I wonder if that service did not get removed by Nvidia by mistake or something. Oh well. And I have good security set up on my computer that I dl torrents on, which regularly alerts me when it finds crap in them, I was just curious on how the NAT router alone would do with my setup. Guess I have my answer, sorry Rikk, gotta agree with everyone else. You're still either super lucky or crazy, or you just go only to microsoft.com. And btw, Mycroft it was great to have someone just caring about my problem. Thanks a lot! I'll be a regular around here now.
JZ

by nepenthe0

Notebook/laptop machines may be inherently less stable than desktops due to less efficient processor cooling. My desktop machines are rock stable running XP Pro, with no AV applications installed.

The Sony desktop is [i]water cooled[/i] and never causes me a moment's uneasiness. If your argument be credible, I should have the same problems with my desktop machines.

[i]Rickk[/i] gave you a challenge: try the experiment, and report your findings. I do not need to invoke esoteric explanations for occasonal notebook squirreliness, just processor temperature.

[i]Minority[/i] viewpoints are infrequently expressed when established pedagogy ridicules those they accuse of reckless heresy. Need I remind you that Gallileo incurred humiliation and threats by postulating that the earth orbited the sun?

Rick/Portland, OR

by rkuhn040172

1) If the Windows firewall is so easy to get around, please enlighten the crowd. And don't send me some theorical paper that you can download from some university.

And forget about the outbound/inbound issue. Keep the details pertinent to the case here, namely, keeping a PC safe for hours, days, weeks (whatever) long enough to rebuild it, patch it, etc.

Assume for the moment that the purpose here, as I expressed in my other post, was for rebuilding the PC or at least using it responsibily and not being rebuilt for a professional porn surfer.

2) Your suggestions for the easily downloadable and free software was good advice...it's how you sold it that was deceiving.

I've run a mostly but not completely patched PC running Windows 98 for years now on a properly secured network without one incidence of malware. And Win 98 isn't nearly as hardened as XP.

3) Your sarcasm is what is misleading people. It's your delivery. Your advice isn't bad, it's the misleading interruptions. Simply visiting an on-line forum like TR on an unpatched PC isn't significantly rising any risks.

4) Now, if you'd like, please prove me wrong. I'd be more than happy to provide you my public IP for a few hours (even though you speak and act as though you'd only need it for a few minutes).

I'm an all Windows network. But rest assured, there are enough measures in place I might as well be running Win 95 because it wouldn't do you any help. And most of those measures aren't reliant at the local level, they are network level.

I'm sure our good, retired doctor on here would agree, stop giving us an infomercial and start proving something.

by rkuhn040172

Absolutely, I can give you plenty of examples.

For one, until our most recent upgrade to Symantec 11.0 AV which includes a built in firewall, we didn't run firewalls other than the Windows firewall on any PC's in our organization.

Not a single one. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

And as a side note, Symantec 11.0 AV with the firewall, build in "Network Threat Protection" and "Proactive Threat Protection" blows.

I turned everything off but the AV protection on most stations.

Second, like most companies we don't always have the time to review, test and patch all systems routinely and timely. I suppose you do but the vast majority of the world doesn't. I don't feel less secure.

In my day job, I support close to 100 people, as many PC's, 14 servers ranging from email, file and print, IIS, reporting services, SQL, project server, 2 websites, a portal, all cell phones, all PDA's, the phone system, 25 remote locations, all internet connections including over 50 cable and DSL lines in addition to multiple T-1's, etc.

The list goes...

Anyways, I'm an IT staff of 1. Me.

The way to properly secure a network isn't to sweat and lose sleep at night about individual PC's. It's about the network.

Perhaps you need to read some of George Ou's articles but I digress.

When you can hack your way past our border, you let me know. Not saying that you or someone else couldn't, eventually, but the information you'd obtain wouldn't be worth your time.

Security is about layers, my friend. If you think leaving a vulnerable PC on your network is a serious threat to your company's tax records, PLEASE FIRE YOUR IT STAFF IMMEDIATELY.

There isn't a network in the world that has properly and completely secured each and every node. If one poorly secured PC on your network leaves you that vulnerable, please, please disconnect your internet connection, close the biz down for a few days and bring in the consultants.

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