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by raymond danner

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In my case, I am basing the system on the AMD Athlon XP2000+ and have a total budget that is very tight ($700 including ALL shipping and handling fees)

System MUST have:
* At least 128Mb DDR SDRAM
* DVD ROM drive
* CD writer
* AGP 2x (or 4x) video, 32-64Mb onboard, major chipset
* Sound card w/high performance at low cost
30-60Gb 7200rpm UDMA/100 or UDMA/133 HDD

And enough cooling to keep everything cool even if room temp gets to 80+?F!

Keyboard and optical wheelmouse would be nice, too.

44 replies

by raymond danner

Any suggestions on companies that sell high quality for low prices? Do recall that my total budget (including shipping, handling and taxes) is $700. While I may have up to $825 available eventually, the $700 is a definite.

Obviously, I have some specific needs; the computer room gets rather warm, as mentioned, so air volume through the case is critical. Properly built, noise shouldn't be a problem.

Quality of parts is crucial as well, although one of the software components I'm buying is going to be Gibson Research's incredible SpinRite 5.x...SpinRite 3.0 saved my butt more than once. I miss having that powerful a program available.

by mrafrohead

Here's to let you now it's definately possible...

XP 2000+ OEM: 128-
Abit KR7A RAID (two bucks more than no raid): 77-
Cooler Master Processor Fan: 24-
Kingston 256M PC2100 CL2.5: 41-
Maxtor 40G ATA100 7200RPM HD: 78-
Matsumi Floppy: 9-
Toshiba 16x DVD Internal: 41-
Lite On 40x12x48 CDRW: 64-
Pine Technology GF 4 MX420 Vidcard: 60-
Phillips Edge II 5.1 Dolby Digital: 39-
InWin S500P 300watt case 3x5.25/4x3.5: 49-
Generic Case Fans: 2 @ 4.50 = 9-

Total: $644.00Just to let you know that it is more than possible to build that computer that you're talking about... All you have to do now is get them and put them together.

Mrafrohead

by asaxton

Check on pricewatch.com for price comparisons. You will be able to see a listing of the computers, the price, and the shipping costs. I use the site for reference anytime I need to make a purchase. I have ordered many parts from companies listed there and have not had any problems.

by raymond danner

You've managed to find lower prices on nearly everything than I have so far (maybe it was the places I looked? Directron and TigerDirect!)

See my next message on this topic for the layout of the machine I've tentatively worked up.

by raymond danner

Athlon XP2000+ w/Volcano7 CPU cooler
SOYO KT333 mainboard
256Mb PC1600 DDR RAM (single strip)
SP4004H ATA-100/7200rpm/40Gb HDD
Mitsumi 3.5" floppy
Samsung 12x DVDROM
Sony CRX195E1 CD-R/W
ATI Radeon VE 32Mb DDR AGP video
US Robotics hardware-based v.92 modem
Black mid-tower case w/300w P/S and thermostat fan
WinXP Pro OEM or Lindows OS

Best price found thus far: $851

Now, I'd be the 1st to admit I don't know that much about the lesser-known brands...so I tried to stay with names I was familiar with.

by thechas

You can save quite a few dollars if you switch from an 333MHz MB to a 266MHz MB.
If you are going with PC2100 RAM anyhow, the 333MHz is a mis-match.

One advantage of the RAID equipped ABIT motherboards is that you get 2 extra IDE channels.
Thatway, your CD-RW drive can be on it's own channel. This greatly reduces the occouance of coasters.

I have seen the ABIT KR7A Raid MB for under $65, shipping included.

Right now, ABIT is my favorite MB mfg. At least for socket A.

4 of my favorite web sources for hardware and prices are:
www.pricewatch.com
www.compgeeks.com
www.newegg.com (be sure to check out the refurb section)
www.mwave.com

You could also shave $50 or so with a win-modem.
Unless you plan to do serious on-line gamming, you should not see any performance difference with the win-modem.

Chas

by tomsal

;)
Hi. What a nice to surprise to see a healthy discussion on system building HERE. I frequent a PC gaming forum a LOT and there (myself and a few other guys) are constantly helping people build great gaming rigs and squeeze the most bang for the buck - but I was suprised to see a thread like that HERE.

Anyway... $700, that is well doable with your specs. Funny how this thread mentions on-board RAID controllers, we have a little discussion going on about how *NOT* important an on-board RAIDis for a home/gaming system (clue one: the quality of on-board Raids are crap..period).

Its hard to avoid them now, so many mobos include them these days (because suckers buy them..oh sorry I mean..um...lol) but just because its there doesn't mean you need to use it right.

Asus and MSI make great mobos for AMD solutions. Its no secret that many folks love MSI and Asus boards for their great over-clocking capabilities either.

Stable. Solid. Cheap. Oh and did I mention AMD Recommended?
;>

Newegg.com is where I price out most of my parts, pricewatch.com is great for getting an idea on costs - but its a pain in the arse sometimes to buy from 10 different vendors to just have the greatest price.

If you care to..check out the hardware forums at pcgcentral.com. Great folks and our information is ESPECIALLY geared for gaming rigs!

later.

by raymond danner

IMHO, Pricewatch is interesting to watch, but almost useless in actual usage due to advertised PriceWatch prices not being honored even when I've stressed I was quoting from PriceWatch.com and SENT them the page in question! :(

by mrafrohead

Two things... Just so you are aware.

First:

Your system won't work quite right, the way you are setting it up.

You are getting a motherboard with the KT333 chipset. That has a 333Mhz Bus speed. The PC1600 memory will need to be PC2700 memory to match the 333Mhz bus speed.

Also, Sony CDRW... BAD BAD hardware. That is crap and you will not be happy with it.

Believe it or not, the Lite ON is a very good burner for that particular model that I picked out for you. Not to mentionif you ever need it to backup your software, it reads EVERYTHING!

Newho... Just so you know.

And the prices I pulled were from Newegg.

by raymond danner

As you've noted, I'd mismatched the memory. Now fixed on my master list, which, when I get back to my current machine (I'm doing this on a machine I have occasional access to) I will repost. I've also noted the caution about the Sony drive. Turns out the drive's not found at two of the four places I've looked so far, anyway, and NewEgg.com seems to have the best overall prices, although in some cases it might be worth getting stuff from one of the other two vendors that are still in the running.

One question that comes to mind, however, is "Is it worth it to get the round floppy and IDE cables?" given their additional expense?

by mc_user

Try a site called Processor.com You can search for just about any component in your PC from their web site. It's worth a look.

by raymond danner

Athlon XP2000+ w/Volcano7 CPU cooler
SOYO KT333 mainboard
256Mb PC2700 DDR RAM (single strip) *
SP4004H ATA-100/7200rpm/40Gb HDD *
Mitsumi 3.5" floppy
Samsung 12x DVDROM
Lite-On CD-R/W *
ATI Radeon VE 32MbDDR AGP video
US Robotics hardware-based v.92 modem
Black mid-tower case w/300w P/S and thermostat fan
WinXP Pro OEM * or Lindows OS

* Based on recommendations from others in this discussion.

1. Why WinXP Pro? Present your reasons clearly.
2. What other mainboards have eight-IDE drive capability but lower price with higher reliability?
3. Any suggestions on black mid-tower cases with 300-400w AMD-certified P/S appreciated
4. Recommendations? Please list source to buy from and reason!

by raymond danner

As you'll note, I'm pricing based on the Dragon Ultra KT333... I'd like to find equivalent but less expensive alternatives, as the project /as I've priced it/ has gone overbudget by nearly $100.

On NewEgg.com, look for a published wishlist by labeled "Athlon XP2000+" or something similar. It's still a work in progress, especially since I do /not/ need the keyboard and mouse (could use the ones from the dead machine, or even a trackball and /second/ keyboard that is even more capable.

by craiglins911

didn't mention what operating sys you will be using if its XP "double your ram 128mb is only enough for head aches

by raymond danner

Am looking at 256Mb PC-2700 DDR RAM right now...may go even higher if budget allows. Probably by the time I get the thing built, Lindows OS will be in the stores, too...and it's a LOT less expensive than XP ever thinks of being.

by gil

Check out Compgeeks.com for "parts". The have decent prices and a good tech support if you run into problems.

by admin

I usually buy from people I or friends have had good experiences with. I've personally had good experience with newegg, overclockers warehouse and sr systems- who have even honored OTHER peoples prices on pricewatch for me two seperate times...

Ihave heard horror stories though, no reciept of item... company went bankrupt after cashing check etc.

Also, below, for a cd-rom, I too LOVE my 2 lite-ons, and have installed them in other machines too. My toshiba DVD\Lite-on combination has notfailed too make a back-up of anything yet using Nero, Clone-CD, or CD-Mate depending on the disk.

Just an agreement with mR AfRoHeAdS recommendation :)

by mtberjim

You might consider getting a pre-built box with the included XP 2.0, CDRW, CD DVD, HD and Memory.
Later when you have more money available, you could do proper research for your main board and video card. You could sell the cheap main board or keepit for testing.

by raymond danner

Yes. and I've already been bit by the cheapness of at least ONE maker's mainboards. I will /never/ purchase another PC-CHIPS mainboard. Couldn't GIVE them to me. I dislike them that much.

This machine will have to work non-stop from the moment I bring it online; it will need to be beefy AND well-cooled; it will be staying powered up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Paying a little more now will pay off in savings later, I figure. Now if I can only get the cost of the system back down within budget!

by admin

with the bathwater personally. Some onboard stuff definately sucks. Still, in my experience, I have enjoyed a number of boards with most features onboard and they have worked as well or better than their counterparts. I do tend to stay away from onbaord video, although you couldn't beat the onboard path to and from the vid chip on the nvidea board a while ago which proved that it can be technically superior to hardwire everything. The key, in my mind, is to have a good way to disable and use slots when parts need updated. I have had good luck with Biostar for stability (especially if you prefer that to tinkering with clock rate and voltages) and am now trying an inexpensive board (K7S5A from ECS Elitegroup) that our local builder has had really good success with. So far mine works like a champ and is stable (something my SoYo Dragonplus is STILL not) and the ECS board is really cheap right now. Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com) HardOCP (hardocp.com) and Hardware Central (hardwarecentral.com) have also been helpful in my decision making processes. My ASUS boards have been good for a mix of hotrodding potential and stability over the years as well although they tend to be pricey. I would just check out what people who own them are saying. The PC-Chips boards aren't the best example of what onboard can do IMO.

by ghstinshll

Just go to Neocomputers.com, build the system you want, Make sure you get a good Motherboard, an Abit, all the rest you need, and make sure that you order a 400w Antec case (149 bucks) and 3 extra case fans.... You can achieve this with no problem, plus at least 256 RAM i bet.

by ghstinshll

Go with the XP1900 for $40 less than the 2000, and get 256MB of DDR2700 RAM, and you have yourself a system!

by raymond danner

I already plan on 256Mb DDR RAM (see current system listout which will be posted up in a couple minutes)...heh. I'd like to know, though, how much impact the slower processor would have on the system performance. The machine's going to be in a very demanding environment, both temperature-wise and power-on hours-wise. Room temperature has exceeded 85?F consistantly during the summer over the last three years, despite the A/C unit (which is the next room). One nice thing about being in the Deep South is that I don't have to worry overmuch about ESD except during the winter months! LOL! As long as relative humidity is 50% or higher, ESD is impossible.

by raymond danner

I'm on a peer-to-peer network on my network setup, so all the machines are servers, to some extent.

However, this machine would be reassigned as the network master (from the machine I'm currently using for the purpose, which is a K6-2/350 with 320Mb SDRAM, and is fairly slow).

Usage would range from mid to high-load graphics editing, mid- to high-load gaming, and almost everything else imaginable; I'm involved in Folding@Home and the UD medical research projects as well as the Distributed.net crypto challenges.

by mtberjim

My Athlon 1.2 266fsb 512mb pc210 Does everything you are looking to do. I also have a pier-to-pier network and run my business with this machine as the server. I game, 1/2 life, Quake 1,2,3, I only have a 32meg ddr video card and on board sound. I've never had any freeze ups or choppy play.
You could save a bunch and use an xp 1500. I went from a k62-500 to the 1.2, 2 years ago. It was like a night and day difference.

by raymond danner

Weird as it seems, newegg's pricing is interesting to the max. The 1600+ is cheaper than the 1500+? *all prices for OEM packaging!* And what, pray tell, is the AGOGA stepping core?

Athlon XP Processor Prices (at newegg.com)
1500+ $ 68
1600+ $65
1700+ $ 78
1800+ $ 84
1900+ $108
1900+ AGOGA $120
2000+ $126
2100+ $156
2200+ $210

I don't see any harm in paying $18 for 100Mhz more speed... (1900+ to 2000+ price difference)

Interesting point here: All of these are 266Mhz FSB. Why, then, buy memory intended for 333Mhz FSB (although that's EXACTLY what I plan to do)?

by raymond danner

The reason I've decided not to allow integrated video and sound is precisely /because/ of my bitter experiences with the PC-Chips mainboards. PC-Chips = Nightmare in my book.

* 3D games don't work with the chipsets PC-Chips chooses for their mainboards (was beta-4 tester for Everquest; it insisted I didn't have 3D graphics, although the SiS 530 is a 3D graphics accelerator!)
* Sound is often choppy and/or poorly supported.
* mic port on one board went dead six weeks after purchase; neitherNorthEast Ohio Computer Systems (NEO Computer Systems) or PC-Chips replaced board, despite warranties on both sides.
Note that I doubt that www.neocomputers.com is the same company as above!
* PC-Chips mainboards have NO WAY to disable onboard stuff, wasting memory and time.

by raymond danner

I'm an old-timer at heart; I tend to prefer separate boards for specific things, sound and video being key items due to their importance to modern computing. If you have built-on video that doesn't auto-disable or cannot be totally disabled without cutting traces on the mainboard (as a tech friend of mine reported having had to do) it's not a good sign.

This being said, I like the SOYO KT333 Ultra Dragon ATX board for one main reason: I need that many IDE channels! Drive layout is as follows:
* Two Quantum Fireball UDMA/100 7200rpm HDDs (assumes HP's drive survived the CPU burnout)
* DVDROM and CD burner
(most boards maxed at this point!)
* ZIP-100 drive and open slave connector.

As you can see, this is five drives! Without threeor four IDE channels, I'm screwed royally. (and this is based on drives I own right now, not counting the 40Gb unit priced in this system!)

by admin

It was PC Chips that was the bathwater... I meant "Don't judge all onboard now and in the future on that incident". You are obviously much more savvy asking now instead of getting one of the worst boards on the market before asking... :)

Anyway, IN THEORY, many things can be done better by integrating the board. It is possible to make things happen that can't through a slot as well. Unfortunately, few people are doing it. If you think about the possibilities though, a much more high performance and stable system is possible. Look at the <200$ gaming system capabilities for examples and then think what could be done at over 1000$ a pop for your eyecandy :)

I still game on PC's too, but slots limit your possibilities in theory, it's just that PC makers have to cater to EVERYONE so that they limit what is possible. The baby is the integrated system, and it is almost always cheaper and more powerful to build.

Personally, I wouldn't buy onboard video or sound just yet either, or at least make sure it is extremely easy to disable, but I don't make judgements about the concept because I know the concept is sound. The execution is not here IMO in the PC yet though.

by admin

Onboard controllers suffer from the same thing. Newer more powerful ones come out and you can add them on too at a price. I've had boxes with many a drive in them, both the obvious SCSI file servers and, for instance, my ASUS has 3 IDE channels for six drives. There are quite a few like this, I wouldn't base buying on this feature alone, but then I'm sure you probably won't either :)

by admin

Whilst I agree quite fervently generally, an OK onboard RAID (I'm using PROMISE on an ASUS) is really improved performance for my home AV system. In huge files it was quite noticable. I only use it for storage of movies and TV on demand, otherwise Irun everything else off the Normal IDE channels. I used to use SCSI and Barrecudas, but they are in my home server now, IDE has improved so much in transfer speeds :)

Anyway, just one little reason to RAID at home IMO...

:)

by raymond danner

I basically have a serious need for the six-drive setup, as mentioned. Although some of this is theoretical (one of the drives might be just as dead as the computer it'll be pulled from; the tech report on the computer does /not/ look encouraging for recovery of the data. Then again, the report was full of incorrect spelling and horrid grammar (notwithstanding the jargon he threw in to spice the mix!)...

It is quite apparent, however, that if the tech had been FAR more careful, the machine might not have died. His initial report chills me: "Upon powering up the system, heard rattling noise and smelled bad oder. Suspect bad CPU and/or mainboard." Sure enough, five days later, that's PRECISELY what they diagnosed...and demanded nearly $1000 to repair! Told them "No fricking way! Button it up and tag it that the customer will come retrieve within a week." Ticks me off /royally/ that because of an incompetent technician, my computer was destroyed.

My initial trouble report "Computer seems to be experiencing overheat problems; locks after 10-15 minutes' use." /should/ have signaled the tech to check ALL electrical connections and also check for obstruction of the fans inside the case. But this lackwitted fool simply powers the system up! $120 (paid up-front!) to have a supposed "professional" screw up my machine and seriously delay very important projects! Is it any wonder I am very, very upset at CompUSA's tech staff?

by raymond danner

I basically have a serious need for the six-drive setup, as mentioned. Although some of this is theoretical (one of the drives might be just as dead as the computer it'll be pulled from; the tech report on the computer does /not/ look encouraging for recovery of the data. Then again, the report was full of incorrect spelling and horrid grammar (notwithstanding the jargon he threw in to spice the mix!)...

It is quite apparent, however, that if the tech had been FAR more careful, the machine might not have died. His initial report chills me: "Upon powering up the system, heard rattling noise and smelled bad oder. Suspect bad CPU and/or mainboard." Sure enough, five days later, that's PRECISELY what they diagnosed...and demanded nearly $1000 to repair! Told them "No fricking way! Button it up and tag it that the customer will come retrieve within a week." Ticks me off /royally/ that because of an incompetent technician, my computer was destroyed.

My initial trouble report "Computer seems to be experiencing overheat problems; locks after 10-15 minutes' use." /should/ have signaled the tech to check ALL electrical connections and also check for obstruction of the fans inside the case. But this lackwitted fool simply powers the system up! $120 (paid up-front!) to have a supposed "professional" screw up my machine and seriously delay very important projects! Is it any wonder I am very, very upset at CompUSA's tech staff?

by mtberjim

I would think once a system gets beyond 4 drives and X # of add on cards the power supply becomes an issue. I had a client with an E-machine; she bought and installed her own CDRW drive. The same day her power supply burned out, a 145-watt PS could not handle 3 drives and everything else was on-board.
With a RAID board it's up to 8 Drives and that's without even considering USB devices. I would think a 300-watt PS is the minim and 400-watts would be preferred.
The system Raymond is considering has a fan on the BIOS chip, the video card, a monster CPU fan and 2 case fans (intake and exhaust), and 5 drives.

by admin

Yep u r right. I use the dual fan enermax's over 400 watts. technically overkill maybe :) :) :)

by raymond danner

The one in the tower case (anyone who has a better idea, speak up, please!) is a 300w or 350w unit... see http://www.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=138307 for the current configuration's loadout in full.

Again, anyone who has a constructive alteration to the wishlist, please DO have the brand and so forth in mind, and do try to lower my costs? :)

by don_c

I see that you have all ready set you budget. When I build a system for myself I always think of what upgrades I might do tomorrow. In one hand I have my wants and in the other I have my needs. My last rebuild was almost nine hundred dollars. There are somthings that i won't go cheap on like the power supply more watts less it has to work and not pulling from something else that you need to work I don't have the configuration that you are looking for but i think that your wish list will run fine with the 350w but what about tomorrow

by raymond danner

1. Is a CPU shim necessary for the Volcano 7 series heatsink/fan combo when used with the AMD Athlon XP2000+ CPU? If so, what is the best one (and best price for it) that you are aware of?

2. Where is the best price for Arctic Silver III thermal grease? I'm not too keen on almost paying more for shipping than I do for the product! (NewEgg wants $8 for the product plus $6(!!) shipping, so unless there is no other choice, they're out.)

by boneyfish

save yourself the agony, and buy the thermal compound locally, next time you happen to be in a Compusa store, or similar.

by craiglins911

howdy raymond
good prices OH YA!! check out tigerdiret.ca or com . I do believe they will have all the peices at a price one can live with.

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