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Certifications / Education in IT

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by rajasmith

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I'm curious about what people think of non-certified and/or non-Computer Science undergraduates working in the software development field. Where I work there are chemical engineers, industrial engineers, civil engineers, music majors, math majors, psychologists, and just about any other profession you can think of competing with Computer Science majors for software development opportunities. For years this didn't bother me. Recently many of these "uneducated" co-workers have been forcing their way into my field. Its gotten so bad that they are verbally attacking, sometimes viciously, programmers like myself in the office place. Many of these people have never had a single college-level CS course and yet they have moved into positions where they are directing programmers on methodology, development, etc. Many have become project managers for software integration and development projects. These engineers would stage a walk-out if I attempted to design electrical circuits, carry on a time-study, diagnose behavioral problems, or write an opera, so what gives them the right to head-up software projects and design software? I've become convinced lately that software developers should start demanding that only certified and/or degreed people with the correct qualifications be allowed into this field. Its gotten so bad where I'm working that I, and others, are looking for other opportunities outside of the company we have been with for years. Any thoughts on this topic?

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by oldefar

It sounds like you have two seperate issues here. The first is a group of abusive co-workers and managers. No one should have to tolerate that. You have my sympathy.

The second is concern that you are competing against peers who lack your specific credentials. I always viewed degrees and certifications as a way of narrowing the field of candidates, not as some kind of prerequisite for the job. My best hire for a network troubleshooter was a pipe fitter in a steel factory before being layed off. He was able to leverage his experience as a plumber to quickly identify where breaks and bottlenecks in WAN traffic were occurring. I had certified network engineers who never could approach his speed and accuracy. A math major or music major could apply those skills to developing simple and harmonious software applications.

In short, the quality of the work produced is more important than the initial degree or certification.

by guruofdos

When I left school in 1983, there were no such thing as Computer or IT courses. I studied Maths, Physics, Chemistry as well as languages until the age of 16. I knew from early on I wanted to do something in electronics as my father was an engineer. At college, I narrowed my field of study and did Maths, Physics and Electronics. Aged 17, I finished college and took BSc in Cybernetics and Control Engineering at Uni, but got fed up with academia and instead did the final year of an HND in Electronic Engineering.

So it would appear I have little or no IT training. Yes I used computers (BBC model B, CBM Pet, AppleII etc) but only as a tool to learn the fundamentals of electronics, control, feedback, logic and analogue methods.

I now design PC I/O cards from scratch...lay out the copper, etch prototype boards, develop and test interfaces and write software drivers. I write software applications in 7 different languages for 9 different platforms. I set up networks, RF comms links, fibre-optic systems and can faultfind to component level and then repair the fault. But I didn't get 'taught' any of this during my schooling. I have learned from experience (my own and others), by trial and error, by reading, by asking questions and by knowing where to look for answers. My skills and qualifications are demonstrated by my ability to acheive results, not by any 'certificate' or diploma. My boss just isn't interested in such matters. He just wants to know that I can solve the problem...or if not, where to look for answers. We have people in our team who DO have some of these 'Certs' but that just means they can recite answers from memory...it doesn't teach people to 'think'. I would not trade my 17 years experience for ANY number of 'Certs' and if an employer regarded paper diplomas as more important than ability, proven skills and hard results, I think I wouldn't like to work for them!

by mallardtooxx

Oldefar is right on in this case. If you have abusive co-workers/Managers then you have every right to be ticked off.
However, to me at least, a degree is not a magic ticket. To me, a degree is a kind of insight into a person. If they can get a degree and maintain a good average then they must be able to learn at some level. I think it is a matter of taking the right people and placing them in the right role. Times are tight, there aren't very many people hiring right now and unfortunatly IT is a hot prospect. You are going to get your normal degree of hacks that always pop up, but for every hack there are at least 5 "good" workers. I am not saying it is right, or even fair, but it is fact. My BS was in Broadcast Journalism and Public relations, I then discoverd that i had a penchant for computers. I also found that computers gave me much more gratification than radio ever did, so I switched. See it is not that I was targeting some other IT Pro, I just wanted to do something that I enjoyed. SO I say let them come, you've been in the field long enough, you'll know the hacks when you see them. Separate the Hacks from the good guys and ignore the rest. I must say this influx of "Non IT Pros" is not going to slow down anytime soon.

If that doesn't work then come on down to the batcave and I'll share a shot of windex with ya, that always cheers me up.

-duck

by dc guy

Perhaps, because as end users of software, they are familiar with our track record! Much of the world's best-known software is imperious, defect-ridden, and comes with an interface that isn't even intuitive to an IT professional. Yes, I'm talking about one vendor but it is WE who allow it to dominate the marketplace, which does not inspire confidence in our judgment or standards. What we call "software engineering" violates many of the basic precepts of every other engineering discipline. The "information infrastructure" we have created has a MTBF that would have us all in prison for malpractice if we were plumbers or civil engineers. Outsiders want to take a crack at managing software projects because they feel that at least they couldn'tdo any worse than we do. In my experience (35 white-knuckle years), they're usually right!

by joe_sunga

In my work place where i am currently working right now, we have this person who has no certifications such as A+, MCSE, MCSA, etc.... but he has landed a job as the network admin also, but no networking background. I said to my self " what the f*** is going on around here " but this is a load of bs, a person who has recently graduated from college with no networking background or computer background and has sales and management has landed a network admin job. As for myself I have a bs, degree in electronics engineering technologist, mCSE, A+, CCNA, solaris 9, redhat 7.

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