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Hacker Group Declares War On Scientology

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by danlm

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

http://www.knbc.com/news/15132220/detail.html

Ok, the guts and the glory of this is the hacker group[ is all ticked off because The Church of Scientology made YouTube take down a vidio of Tom Cruise. The hacker group is asking its memembers to attack the church's servers, make prank calls, fax black pages to the church to waiste ink... Things like that.

I do not fully understand the Church of Scientoligy even though I have done some reading on them. Who am I to judge is basicatly what I am saying...

But the hacker group???? I thnik it bothers me that hacker groups are attacking a religious organization.... What is next? The servers of the Roman Catholic, the salvation army(what I was raised in), Protestant's, Jewish, Hindu's, Buddist's, Muslim oragnisations start being attacked because someone doesn't like the official position of that religion?

Has the religious wars now entered cyber space... I mean attack mode(ddos and such), not hate web pages? Or am I behind the curve on this one, and it's always been going on?

Dan

341 replies

by boxfiddler

Unfortunately I have some experience with the Church of Scientology, having been targeted by them for objecting to the use of their 'teaching techniques' being used to train campus tutors and SI Leaders. It is a long, ugly story that I would rather not go into.

The hacker group in question is quite frankly doing exactly what the Church of Scientology does to any site or page that they perceive as insulting, degrading, or false to Scientology.

It's not exactly right in either case, but I have to say it's about time they got some of their own medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html

by ontheropes

I've never looked into Scientology and after reading the links I'm sure I'm not going to waste my time looking into it any further. Thanks.

by danlm

I didn't make it fully through the one article, but it was enough to scare me. Especially about the sucide... They have their front men, who are in the open for everyone to see. Then they milk everyone else who is a part of their organization. Maybe it's a good thing that this hacker group is giving them a taiste of their own reality.

Dan

by av .

I read part of Dianetics back in the early '70s and really didn't care for it. I thought it was brainwashing. I never realized what this organization was all about until I read some of the links you posted. They are way beyond Dianetics.

I don't agree with the hackers, but I understand their motivation.

AV

by boxfiddler

back in the late 60's. It started getting really weird about halfway and I haven't been interested enough to go back and finish it. Though it is still around somewhere...

by michael jay

feeling that resistance is futile?

I do not understand most religious folks when it overrides common sense.

by santeewelding

Each transmutes common for uncommon sense, and they rage commonsensically, much as you may risk with your commonsense assumption.

by jaqui

I only had to read that once to understand it.

~twitch~

~twitch~

~flail~
~run away~
[ a la Wile E. Coyote ]

by charliespencer

"...for each of us that falls, 10 more will take his place."

I love revolutionary rhetoric. I don't understand what influences a person to maintain a religious position, but I expect the Scientologists will be around long after Anonymous has been relegated to the dusty archives of the web.

by nicknielsen

Reading the video transcript gives me the impression that any "we" is the royal we.

We are amused.

by seanferd

and all other collected works of LRon, as well as whatever other writings the high priests have produced are safely stored in an underground vault. They will be around a very long time, unless someone pegs it with a GBU-28 or similar. Scientology is stickin' around.

by tig2

Is that LRon was a bad SciFi writer who had a heck of a time getting his drivel into print. Some time before Dianetics, he said openly in an interview that the best way to get rich in America was to start yur own religion.

Guess he was right about at least one thing.

by seanferd

The Thayton level of Anonymous is way too high.

Edit: Apparently, this is spelled Thetan. I read the word with the other spelling somewhere, and it stuck. I had originally assumed the correct spelling, but was led astray, probably by something that was a bit of a lampoon.

by jardinier

I first became acquainted with Scientology 47 years ago when a journalist colleague on the Sydney Morning Herald was declared a non-person (I forget the precise term but it was the equivalent of excommunication) for criticising the organisation.

I attended a meeting or two and quickly learnt that I would have to pay to undergo auditing.

However the philosophy of Dianetics appeared to be quite sound. At that time Scientology was not registered as a religion.

It was my understanding (although of course I might be wrong) that it was not L. Ron Hubbard who turned this therapy into a money-making monster, but other people within the organisation which he had established.

by seanferd

I would have to agree. I think LRon did set out to create a monster, but quite possibly not the one we ended up with. The phenomenon is not uncommon, wherein original teachings are distorted, sometimes radically, especially once the originator is gone.

by ontheropes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

I don't know your feelings about Wikipedia but the article there was enough for me.

by jardinier

I would respect him for that alone. If we only have one span of existence, the more we can cram into it the better.

I also respect Aleister Crowley for testing first hand various forms of religion and magic.

So L. Ron was a complex guy who did a lot of bad things. However I find his system of Dianetics credible and laudable. For many years I kept the chart which shows how various negative experiences block us from expressing ourselves fully, and the degree of individual power as these blocks are progressively removed.

I do actually recommend that people study the theory of dianetics before dismissing everything to do with scientology.

Horrendous atrocities have been committed in the name of various religions, and especially Christianity. Does this then sap the authority of the teachings of Jesus, Paul and others?

Incidentally I do not think you have to pay money to undergo auditing. I do not have the book at hand, but I seem to recall that Hubbard stated that anyone who studied the technique would be qualified to audit another person.

If my memory serves me correctly in this instance, that would vindicate my earlier suggestion that it was not L. Ron who set out to create a money-making industry, but his hirelings who came after him.

Have any of you seen John Travolta interviewed on TV? He is a really cool, loving, likeable guy.

All this stuff reminds me that I have been lax in my established role of starting interesting religious discussions at TR. I know Neil loves them, if he is still around.

by john.a.wills

The Wikipedia says that LRon spent the 1950s in London, but for a while he lived in Kenya teaching expatriate civil servants Swahili until the powers that were discovered he did not actually know any Swahili. I know this because my father was one of the expats.

by boxfiddler

What the Church of Scientology will admit about itself and godron, is a completely different set of stories from what people experience and what slips past the propaganda machine.

edit word change

by seanferd

What it was all really about was LRon being successful at something. Since apparently reasonable people will buy into the oddest Belief Systems, he managed to find that niche for himself, where even good writing wasn't even involved.

I had always been suspicious of dianetics/scientology, but I entirely flipped when I found out the whole thing was based on getting away from problems created by evil ancient alien overlord brain creatures that lived in volcanoes, or something like that. I can't claim to have committed much to memory.

Edit: This is pretty much what what I was talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

by jdclyde

that it is the "churches" attacks on free speech and their lawsuits to shut people up that has brought this on them, not the fact that they are an insane cult.

It isn't about religion, it is about fighting oppressive control freaks.

by charliespencer

I view too much concern with the opinions of others, especially strangers or the uninformed, as a sign of insecurity or immaturity. This applies to religions as well as individuals.

Once a religion or set of beliefs is fully developed, tested, and matured, it doesn't care what non-believers think. Doing so only indicates concern the critics may have a point.

by jdclyde

the less you know before the brain washing is applied, the better.

Ever hear of EST?

http://www.rickross.com/reference/est/estpt8.html

by Member 25348569

As is so nicely put in another religion - Matthew 26:52 - The "Church" of Scientology probably deserves everything that it's going to get and then some.

However taking away an organisation's free speech isn't the way to go and it just makes you as bad as them. Much better to let the well known but rather short Mr Cruise talk absolute bollocks on their behalf (and recruit such erudite and eloquent proponents as David and Victoria Beckham). Face it, TC is a man who was once shagging Nicole Kidman and [b]gave her up[/b] for a cult (which, of course, the CoS isn't. Oh, no. Absolutely not.)!

Neil :)

by seanferd

Not sure about the first usage of the word, or when it was originally coined, but scientology predates LRon's writings. One prior definition of this word is pseudoscience. I am betting that LRon knew this.

by jardinier

-logy // comb. form
forming nouns denoting:
1 (usu. as -ology) a subject of study or interest (archaeology; zoology).
2 a characteristic of speech or language (tautology).
3 discourse (trilogy).
[French -logie or medieval Latin -logia from Greek (as Logos)]

[b]So -ology indicates a subject of study or interest.[/b]

Therefore your suggested definition of "pseudoscience" would not make sense.

It would thus appear that scientology would perhaps mean the study of science. A peculiar mongrel of a word no doubt, but definitely not pseudoscience.

by jardinier

When I committed myself to a search for Truth more than 40 years ago, I found there was no turning back.

This cost me my career, my marriage and my health. But I am still here, looking forward to some of the best years of my life that lie ahead of me. I do not regret this decision I made more than 40 years ago.

So Tom Cruise thinks his religion is more important than bonking Nicole Kidman. Good for him. If it works for him, why not. I am sure there is a bevy of beautiful, talented young ladies that will be readily available to him whenever he chooses.

What have you sacrificed for your non-belief?

by jdclyde

Following your beliefs leads you TO some things and away from others.

It is your choice to look at the things you have gained or the things you have lost and everyone has to make that decision of if it was "worth it all", and not all see the choice as a sacrifice.

I think Tom and Nicole split because she seems like to intelligent and strong willed to allow anything or anyone to control her. He moved on to someone younger that he could control.

by Member 25348569

Well, totally pompous, really just so our US chums don't get bogged down in British understatement.

Firstly, we are talking about Scientology which, for very good reasons, has been denied the status of a religion in the UK by the independent Charities Commission. This is a "religion" that believes that that all humans have invisible alien spirits attached to them and they are the cause of human problems. Leaving aside the (attempted) humour of my use of the Kidman-Cruise split, the organisation's - and therefore Cruise's - beliefs are still ridiculous by any criteria.

The Church of Scientology is one very, very creepy and manipulative cult. Some years ago in MY "search for truth" - well, all knowledge is valuable and I was bored - I visited the CoS London HQ just near Blackfriars Station. The pseudo-scientific hokum that was practised upon me was quite disgusting in its blatant dishonesty to the extent that I haven't seen before or since.

So, you have sacrificed your career, your marriage and your health in your "search for truth" and, from the tone of your post, you seem to think that firmly stakes you on the moral high ground. In my eyes, pal, it makes you an IDIOT. What have I sacrificed in my "search for truth"? What the F*CK has it got to do with you? Push off, you sanctimonious GIT.

Neil :)

by ontheropes

So after all of this time what is the Truth? I've been a little curious about that myself. Is the search all there is to it or have you found something, hopefully something simple, that everyone can use?

by boxfiddler

He has really made an ass of himself lately on the talk shows...

Without a script the man is mindless! :D

by charliespencer

To this atheist, the difference between a religion and a cult is not readily apparent. As near as I can tell, 'cult' is used to describe any group that doesn't share the speaker's 'religion', especially if it has fewer believers.

It's kinda like the difference between a 'fun date' and a 'slut'. A 'fun date' is a girl who sleeps with everyone she goes out with. A 'slut' is girl who sleeps with everyone she goes out with except ME!

by rfink

Whatever you do, don't get on their mailing list. I made that mistake in 1985 and they're still hounding me. Three address changes later.

They won't take "remove me from your list" for an answer.

March 13th is only six weeks away. Time for the annual blizzard of mail. :(

by boxfiddler

this particular group is still hounding the unsuspecting students who were in attendance at that orientation. I get periodic emails and/or phone calls from my former student employees. Some of them, who unfortunately gave out a physical address, get occasional personal visits. I suspect it will never end for them.

edit: https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=252275&messageID=2412974

by charliespencer

L. Ron's birthday? Date of departure from this realm? Tom and Katie's anniversary?

Whatever it is, it's only a couple of days before the NASCAR weekend at Bristol, so I won't really care.

by boxfiddler

is annual 'L. Ron Hubbard Day'. As well as elrons b-day. All sorts of things scientology related get scheduled for March 13, including apparently death and destruction to enemies of the church.

Google March 13 Scientology and you come up with all sorts of interesting stuff.

by dr dij

back on usenet groups someone posted their 'secret' works. they figured out how to delete other people's messages.
then the admins figured out how to un-delete, etc if address didn't match, etc.

by boxfiddler

There have been for many years several sites actively engaged in trying to tell the truth about Scientology and its' activities over the years. They go to great lengths to keep their sites up and running. Generally they have to publish on their own web servers because the backlash from CoS is so great that hosting companies don't want to deal with the furious dDoS attacks, cracks and thefts of information, site defacement...

edit typo

by jdclyde

http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien30.html

A cool read, and something I was blissfully unaware of. It seems this isn't the first time hackers have gone on the offensive against the oppressive and secretive Scientologists.

Any group that is as secretive as the Scientologiest clearly has something to hide?

It seems like it is long overdue for the hacker underground to strike out, hard, as what the Scientologiests have been doing goes against everything the hackers believe about freedom and access.

I am making some popcorn and getting myself a front row seat! B-)

by dr dij

that their secretive 'sea orgs' (large ships with many followers on them) are used to smuggle drugs / people as what self respecting customs person in another country wants to deal with hordes of 'believers' hoping to catch a crack in the official's consciousness and brainwash them.

Easier and safer to just 'wave them thru' without a thorough search of their ship. And they probably have scads of ghostwriters to pump out the very bad sci-fi drivel.

My one exception: I did purchase (second hand, $.25 at book sale) a sci-fi anthology that was EDITED by 'HIM', not written by him. If the stories not by him they might be OK.

by Member 25348569

You're having a real fun time reproducing today! I'll answer the last one...

OK, so I could have been a little more explicit but I suspect that Julian understands where I'm coming from and where I want him to go.

Neil :D

NITS(tm) reference: "Push off" is used when you're really rather fed up with someone, they're boring you and you just want them to go away and do something else (anything) somewhere else (anywhere).

The attitude and tone of voice would be one of pained boredom followed by turning your back on them.

"Oh for God's sake, just push off will you and annoy someone else".

by boxfiddler

but in fact he flunked out of Georgetown and bought himself some paper at what was at the time a well known degree mill. Don't recall the mill name at the moment.

by boxfiddler

I spent so much time researching and reading so much stuff in order to approach the school board from a position of strength that I made myself sick at the horrors this 'church' perpetrates. It's been several years and I really forgot where I read it.

edit another typo
Dr. Dij - where's that emeter? :D

by seanferd

I think that THEY think that we may be the evil hordes of Xenu.

edit: sp. grrrrr. Must proof read better. The automistakemarker throws me off. I'll need to check those settings again.

by dr dij

with endless bogus e-meter reading that you have to pay $30,000 for (or insert $ figure that is whatever you have left).

by boxfiddler

I read somewhere that it is a modified lie detector that in addition to registering galvanic skin response generates minute amounts of voltage, which in turn stimulates neurotransmitters. So of course people leave auditing sessions feeling better!

I'd like to find that article again, but bets are that will be a tough one.

by jdclyde

I can find some old Gallagher fans and borrow their plastic sheets?

Hmmmm, going to have to go rent "Blood of heros" now.

by jardinier

Yes you reported one of the early uses of the word, but you implied that L. Ron had some nefarious motive in choosing it.

by Member 25348569

your platonic, totally non-gay, brotherly love is appreciated and I would like to reply that I deeply admire and respect you and would be happy to shake your hand, hug and slap you on the back - in a truly manly, bonding fashion without any mention of show tunes whatsoever.

:D

Welcome back, anyway...

by jellimonsta

I am not exactly 'up' on my show tunes. If we were to hug it would have to be the one armed pat on the back kind. :p
We could then grunt and mutter "so, how about that rugby game?" (it would be football over here) :D

by nicknielsen

I think the Truth is what you believe it is in the context of your Faith's basic tenets.

I also think religious leaders are afraid to have worshipers discover this...

by boxfiddler

"I also think religious leaders are afraid to have worshipers discover this... "

That would remove all their 'authority over their flock' now, wouldn't it?

by ontheropes

Over in another thread Pond Scum was talking about starting his own religion. At the root of each persons faith I think that's what most thinking people have done even if they don't realize it and it doesn't matter what religion they adhere to or claim.

To look at both sides of the God thing: It's also very possible, to me, that the atheistic argument might be correct. I don't think so but maybe this IS all there is. If so, whoopee. :|

I think there's more than this life, much more, but then I see things differently than a lot of folks and I could be all messed up in the head. Wouldn't surprise me.

by ontheropes

I'm a noob when it comes to knowledge of the CoS but from what I've read lately they are a real freak show.

Before this thread my only contact/interest was trying to read Dianetics probably 30 years ago. I couldn't make heads or tails out of it, got bored and threw it out. Not having read it I can't say whether or not there is any therapeutic value for me in there but I don't feel like I've missed out on anything.

From what I've learned so far when it comes to DDOS attacks and whatever it looks like the CoS drew first blood. It could be interesting to watch this whole thing develop further as recently it's looked as if the CoS has been trying to raise their profile. They're into NASCAR? Who knew?

by danlm

I still do IRC chatting, as I have for more then probably 15 years. I belong to a security e-mail forum which is made up of all the different IRC networks to help combat bots and ddos attacks on networks. Sharing of the knowledge type of deal.

I am now starting to see postings about this same subject with regards to bot appearing on different networks and being attributed to the Anonymous group.

[i]I don't know who is in 'Anonymous', but I'd hardly be surprised to
learn that some of the drone runners we've encountered and discussed on
this list were involved. This group in no way appears professional, with
their reliance on DDoS (which is widely known to take collateral
damage). Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of Scientology, but at the
same time, I'm even less of a fan of DDoS.

This sort of stupidity is only one reason why we need to keep reporting
attempts to create botnets and attack networks, as well as find new
ways to track and report abuse to relevant people.[/i]

Chuckle, in my words. Cutting to the chase. If you see an increase of bots on your specific IRC network... Report it, we will reverse engineer it and report it to the proper authorities. And yes, the authorities do watch this specific email group. Alot of good has come from it.

Shoot, after following the emails... They even know what IRC network these kids run on.

Dan

by ontheropes

It makes about as much sense as a lot of what I see and hear.

As I age I can't help but wonder more and more about what's next. Maybe all that's next is 43.

by seanferd

Exclusive The Cruise Indoctrination Video Scientology Tried To Suppress

The Complete Package The Ultimate Tom Cruise Scientology Parody Video Roundup

Tom Cruise We are the way to happiness

:D

by boxfiddler

he's mindless WITH a script, too.

OTOH, Craig Ferguson just cracked me up. But then, I like him anyway.
Gorlag! roflmao! :D

by boxfiddler

Excellent! I don't have to burn Battlefield Earth too, do I?
Chock of full of cheesy, cheeky, cheapshot satire and I love that one.

by tig2

I don't agree with Julian's choices. And I agree that his post was pompous.

For some reason that I don't understand but accept, I never had to "search for truth". I have always known my truth. And maybe that is the reason that I don't feel any need to beat anyone over the head with it- it simply IS and always has been.

To use Julian's argument in your case, I think that you gave up quite a lot. And refused to give up those things that comprise your core being. And I admire that more than I can tell you.

The search for truth is like the search for the bluebird of happiness. We always think that it is found somewhere else. When we don't find it in all of our travels, we think that we have failed. I think that when we stop searching and find peace in our own selves, we find what we are looking for.

Neil, I don't have to tell you that you must consider the source. And decide for yourself if any individual is worth typing three words to.

I shall immediately email you a hug. And will tell you that I have had my moments with the CoS. If I ever needed proof that pure evil exists, I got it.

by Member 25348569

but my BP is just fine. As you said, "source" and it was, after all, only Julian. What I delivered was what I explained to jd in my NITS(tm) interpretation of "push off".

As for my "search for truth"? Well, can't say as I'm actually searching but more sort of looking around with a slightly bemused expression on my face. I've found some interesting stuff quite by accident and I've STILL not come to any real conclusions. I only give up stuff that I want to give up and that would never be any of family or health.

:D

by jackofalltech

Scientology is NOT a real religion. L. Ron Hubbard started it decades ago on a bet. A group of his Sci-Fi writing buddies were having a discussion about religion and he said he could make up a religion that was better than any ot the other ones and make a lot of money at the same time. Google "Who is Xenu" and you'll see how wierd it is.

by charliespencer

What determines Scientology isn't a religion and (insert name of more accepted belief system) is? What makes it any more weird than another?

Inquiring atheistic minds want to know.

by Member 25348569

I keep forgetting that you've been away for a while and so miss the reference. The idea linking jd (I like girls!) clyde and show tunes has been running for a while. I think it had started when you were last around, even. Anyway, I think Mae was the first to spot the "jd doth protest too much, methinks" and it has gone on from there. Mae would certainly have posted it, given the chance!

Neil :D

by charliespencer

"They're into NASCAR?"

Somebody provide me with some supporting documentation, please. The season is about to start and I need to know who to boo.

by jardinier

It has nothing to do with moral high ground. So you think I am an idiot? Be my guest.

I do not regret the course I chose earlier in my life. But of course if I said I had gained wisdom as a result of my search for truth, you would again accuse me of being pompous.

But then I know who I am and you don't know who I am. Perhaps you know who you are, you pompous bluddy atheist? Oh you are so proud of your superior insight that you rarely miss an opportunity to remind us.

Personally I think most atheists are idiots who are too lazy to look into the mysteries of life.

Pompous my a$$.

by jdclyde

I DID hear that Neil likes to be patted on the backside while he grunts...... :^0

by jdclyde

Everyone believes in something, regardless of if it is of religious nature or not.

Look at it from a non-religious point of view. I see how much easier my life would be if I didn't have bloody standards of acceptable behavior.

I don't know what the great truth is that Jules was seeking that caused him to lose everything that many of us value, but that is his life and his choice. I know my beliefs in religion have added to my life, not taken away from it.

by theswabbie

As a Networking professional I am against the efforts of hackers to infiltrate ANY system. The basic credo "Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine" as it applies to data is just absolutely wrong. It would be no different than if someone walked in my back door with me sitting on the couch and started going through my private things. A very well placed load of 000 Buckshot would be my reply to remove that person from the gene pool.

As far as scientology - boy, what a topic. In the 1990's we had "political correctness" crammed down our throats. Dont offend anyone - everyone's opinion is right, if its right for them and they are sincere.

You can be sincere and still yet be "sincerely wrong". Personally, I DONT believe Hubbard ever meant to create a "religion" - but they've done it anyway. The movie "Battlefield Earth" was a so-so B grade movie, but its just that, a movie.

No sense in starting a huge debate on here as to what religion is "real" etc...that could go on for years :)

by ontheropes

http://www.google.com/search?q=scientology+nascar&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenton_Gray

by jardinier

It is only a "sacrifice" in retrospect. I had no idea where my search would lead me. I just know that when I set out on it, there was no turning back.

At 66 years of age, if I was to cark it tomorrow, I would say I got good value from my 66 years. I have had a very stressful but also very interesting life.

My father died at the age of 67. He was a good man and a conservative man. But his life was quite dull compared to mine.

There were two years during the early part of my search for truth in which I lived an entire lifetime of unique experiences which most people would never know of.

I do not regret the past, I revel in it because it has created the person who is me today.

I look forward to some of the best years of my life.

However Jeff thank you for being non-judgmental about my comments. It is my life and it has been a rich and colorful life. While not being a highlight of my life, my interaction with the members of TR over a period of five years has been a very important and valued aspect.

Where else could I have met characters like OzMedia and Maxwell Edison?

I guess not many of you know the real Colin, but he is one of the most extraordinary people I have ever met.