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Reverse Discrimination. Right or wrong?

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by raymond danner

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I have witnessed many cases and examples of reversed discrimination in my life, from blacks toward whites primarily. This disturbs me greatly, especially when the justice system of the US seems either unable or unwilling to stop this.

When a white or disabled person is denied the opportunity to gain a job because a black holds contempt for them, it is every bit as much a civil-rights violation as a white denying a black the same job based on their color.

Given two people, one black, one white, both equally qualified, I would hire the one who is willing and able to work the hardest. Regardless of race, but that's me.

23 replies

by raymond danner

In 2000, I worked for a major retailer on a temporary job. I was eligible to be rehired six months after the job ended. The personnel director of the store was seen shredding my application along with four others. All five of us were later told (by her) that she had lost said applications, to refile. Same thing (in my case) happened twice more. (claims of lost applications)

Personnel director was a black female. I'm white, male and (as it happens) disabled. Here's the kicker: At the time I filed complaint (for violation of the Equal Employment Opportunity Act) EEOC had a dossier on that woman that's close to 10 inches thick... yet wouldn't take on my case. Makes me wonder who paid them off.

by absolutely

If even half of that is true, I suspect you would be hiring legal counsel, not posting to the discussions section of a professional IT forum to have a conversation about it with whatever strangers happen to see your post.

by tony hopkinson

"a black holds contempt for them"

No indication of reverse in that statement at all!

All you seem to be saying is you are not benefiting from reverse discrimination in favour of white disabled people.

by raymond danner

I actually didn't claim anything about my disability on the applications I filed. And in any case, in at least two cases, she shredded them before reading them anyway (which is a violation of EEOC regs in itself). Injustice appears to have won in this case.

In re: Absolutely's comments:
Yes, I did hire counsel in 2000. And even they were unable to get the EEOC to action the situation. They got a message back that basically read "We are aware of her misconduct and are investigating"... then nothing. This tells me that someone somewhere is just as dishonest as she is, and is covering for her. Seven years later, she still has her job, despite having cost the retailer six convictions (alongside her!) in court for similar offenses. It's an outrage, and this is more a warning that reverse discrimination does occur in this day and age. Discrimination that the courts do zilch about.

by tony hopkinson

that reverse racism has protected her from prosecution for being racist?

If you had an employee who continually caused you extensive legal actions through what could only politely described as total incompetence, would you be worried about their sex or colour?

They would have got rid of her by now anyway they could.

We are not getting the whole story here, more like a story full of holes.

There's no such thing as reverse racism, the only reason to fear being prosecuted for racism by your peers is because you are. and want to hide it.

by sniperlt

If you want a rational reply to this post.

#1 What was the race,ethnicity,religion,sexual orientation or physical status of the other four people whose applications she "shredded"

#2 What was the case number of the EEOC complaint that you filed. They are as far as I know public records

#3 In what state were said "convictions" against here "company". What were the case numbers and in what jurisdictions? As and aside as far as I know racial discrimination in employment is not a criminal offense in any jurisdiction in this country. So there could not have been a "conviction" The company may have been held liable in civil court. The woman may have been "judged" personally liable.

All in all, just on the surface of what you have said. You sound like a bitter white guy that did not get a job that he wanted. And is mad because the person that was in the position of authority to approve that job happened to be black and worse a woman. Its an old story. Some white males( I will not say ALL white males) just have a real problem having to be in a position of subordination to any non white (especially Blacks) or women. In other words in having to in this time and age compete against the sum and total of the poplulation. Which had not been the case for 188 years of this country's history.

by raymond danner

[i]I don't believe you. If even half of that is true, I suspect you would be hiring legal counsel, not posting to the discussions section of a professional IT forum to have a conversation about it with whatever strangers happen to see your post.[/i]

It is more a warning than anything else. It has been almost seven years since that incident, and that woman still has her job despite the fact she's been the defendant (with the retailer as co-defendant) (and has lost!) six or seven other lawsuits over this very issue. And who says I didn't hire legal counsel back then, to try to get legal relief? I did, actually. Even my lawyer couldn't get the EEOC to act. Other than a note back from them that "we are aware of this woman's misconduct", that is.

It disgusts me how those with connections or riches can buy their way out of being punished for illegal actions, and it will only get worse.

by drowningnotwaving

But I had to ask for more details, just to see if you'd walk right into it.

It's not a case of racism or discrimination whatsoever. It's just a case of sometimes the assh0les win.

I'm sure you've been told, but you need to get over this, move on. It's been a while now.

Or take up the excessive and frivolous use of narcotics. It's not an easy choice!!

by sniperlt

Just what in fact do you call "equally qualified". My point is that if there were no human judgments involved in hiring there would be no need for a little thing we call an "interview"!!! And as in all human decisions preconceived notions,personal likes and dislikes,prejudices and personal opinions can and will enter into that decision.

Of course no intelligent person in this day and age will voice those factors verbally. They would be hauled into court immediately.Forty year ago they would have had no fear of saying what they thought because our society tolerated that those types of opinions. So today they will just think those thing. And at times they may not even realize they are doing it.

Since no on has developed telepathic ability how is one to know that he/she is being judged on his ability and not some factor that had nothing to do with his knowledge,education,skills or experience?

by me

There is a lot of reverse discrimination in Alabama. Like African Americans, we need to band together and fight the good fight.

by me

Contact either the Wiggins or Nakamura Law Firm in Birmingham. Ann Robertson from Wiggins personally can handle Reverse and other types of discrimination suits. She wins too!

by jck

in the first half of the 20th century, it was acceptable in most places for people to be denied services because of the color of their skin.

then we had the civil rights movement. equality was supposedly established.

but now a young person can be turned away from the educational grant money, student loans, small business loans...not because of lack of need... but because of skin color.

just so happens now, the government gives you preference under law...if you are not white.

i don't even like calling it reverse discrimination. it's just plain discrimination.

"Equal Justice Under Law" - quote on the front of the Supreme Court Building

they need to make things that way, if they're are going to have that up there.

by himdownstairs

If it's reversed, it's going against discrimination, right? I think discrimination of all forms is wrong. But it's so subjective that it takes an extreme case with witnesses to prove it. I feel I've been discriminated against, several times. But I also feel that I can not be denied anything if I work hard to make myself the best at whatever I do. It's also important to remember that sometimes you win some, some times you lose some and when you lose it may not have to do anything with the color of your skin, height, abilities and/or disabilities...they just didnt like you.

by notsochiguy

I knew a guy, as pale as the background of this forum post, that got boatloads of scholarship cash based on race.

How'd he do it?

He pulled a 'Soul Man', of sorts. He stated that he was African-American, and whenever anyone called him on it, he said his family originated from South Africa.

I mean, what do you even say to that, except 'well played'?

by jdclyde

since the term african-amercian in todays society means you are simply black, no matter what country your ancestors came from.

And people are stupid enough to buy into it.

by jdclyde

is only making things worse.

If the interviewer sees a freaked out name on the application, strike one before it is even read.

And then are the "tribal" tattoos all the white boys are getting as the current trend. oh really? what tribe do you belong to???

Man, people are stupid.

signed, jd, German-American.

by jck

you should put on some leiderhosen and eat brats and drink beer at work...and if anyone complains, tell them it's your heritage and you have a right to celebrate it.

if the indians can smoke peyote and have a job in the general public...we Germans can drink beer and go to work too!!! :D

(Did I mention I have German on both sides of my family? Maybe that's why I drink two handed lol ;) )

by jck

and i'm gonna need some soon...anyone got the 800 number? lol

by jamesrl

UNless the store had a written policy, or you find a smoking gun email, its pretty difficult to prove.

You could find me (a white guy) standing at a shredder, shredding the applications of non white people. Am I a racist? Well you can judge for yourself, but certainly the non white people I've hired and the non white HR person that work with me don't think so. We are required to shred the applications of unsuccessful candidates to protect their privacy. (Not the resume, the application form which may contain more private information).

Have I hired a white male over a non white female when the female was highly qualified? Yes I have - because the white male's qualification were better. (BTW I passed her resume on to some friends in other companies because she was pretty good).

Is there some level of subjectiveness in how we judge someone's qualifications -of course there is. Do we judge people based on how they are dressed and how well they communicate - yes. Is it the only thing we judge on, certainly not.

For you to win, you have to be able to demonstrate that not only did she not hire you, but that her reason for not hiring you was racial. You would need an admission from her, or at least some third party neutral witness. That is not easy or simple.

James

by jdclyde

another 25% Greek. (watch it ladies...)

about 20% Irish. (drink? SURE!)

My Aunt traced that side of the family back over 700 years. Even have a French Pirate in the family tree. B-)

by jck

let's see...
dad's side: Danish... Norwegian... German... Scots-Irish... Irish... English

mom's side: German... Scottish... Irish... English... Cherokee Indian...

that's as best I can remember right now.

i remember my aunt Amy used to go to Europe yearly and do genealogy.

according to her, my great-grandfather's family were huge hoteliers in Copenhagen, Denmark in the mid 1800s before they came to America to try and make it big here.

my grandmother's nordic roots supposedly traced back to Eric the Red. I don't know if that's a story or not. can't imagine records back to the 900s A.D. or something, but who knows.

my father's family also was supposedly tied to William the Conqueror somehow.

my mother's family has ties back to Crawford in Ayr in Scotland, of whom one woman was William Wallace's mother and the daughter of the Sheriff of Ayr.

My mother is related to Ulysses S. Grant.

i could go on. scary stuff what my relatives have researched. if i win the lotto, i'll probably go research it for myself and confirm it all.

until then, all i have to go by is what family has told me.

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