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by sdailey3

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I'm currently working on a degree in computer science through a well known university. In one of my current classes, the teacher is really stressing the use of DOS. Everything from the MD command to xcopy, format... pretty much the whole nine yards.

While I'm not having any trouble, I am curious just how much DOS is used in networking. I know that ipconfig, ping, tracert etc... will be used, but how often does anyone out there use DOS more than say the GUI?

43 replies

by seanferd

Command line use is very common, for many things aside from DOS. And by DOS, I am assuming you mean the CMD environment in more recent versions of Windows, which really isn't DOS anymore.

I suspect the point of learning the commands is mostly about getting used to a CLI, but the actual commands are useful for Windows as well.

by hal 9000

Most answers will be not at all or not all that much for users who never trouble shoot anything.

But if you are troubleshooting the correct answer is [b]All the Time.[/b]

It's impossible to troubleshoot properly from the GUI and it's also impossible to do most of the commands like XCopy when the GUI isn't loading.

Though if you move away from Window servers the answer will be quite often as most of the more powerful OS's available do not need to load a GUI to work and in every occasion using a GUI on these systems will cause them to slow down and cause Network Problems.

Do you remember Hotmail before M$ bought it? That wasn't running on Windows Servers and when M$ brought it and moved to Window Servers they lost a lot of the clients because of constant down time.

Though the term DOS isn't strictly speaking correct and a lot of the networking commands precede DOS by many years.

Col

by rob miners

Top marks to your Teacher for stressing the need to learn it. I couldn't agree more.

DOS to me is the deep dark depths of the Operating System. I have spent years learning it and just when I think that I have got it, something new comes along or someone has found a new way to do something.

It may not be the Original DOS that we use nowdays but boy is it Powerful.

You will have a definate advantage having learnt it. Even in Vista some of the most powerful commands have to be invoked from the command prompt.

As a Technicain I use it daily be it from the Recovery Console, from my Multiboot CD's or my Flash Stick. It's great for installing an OS across the network. Set it up and Automate the install and it really dosn't take much longer than than doing a standard install, if setup properly.

Mind you all this depends on what Version of DOS is being used. They all have thier uses.

by dawgit

"but how often does anyone out there use DOS more than say the GUI?" Quite offten actually. It's still a widely used 'embeded' OS used in things that are running that people don't even realize are computers. Why? Because it's small and simple. The aplication is what one wants to be important, Not an eye-candy bloated OS. -d

by sdailey3

Thanks for the replies. It's good to hear that what I'm learning isn't just going to be applicable in a classroom enviroment. No doubt, in my eyes, that there is a use for a command line interface when it comes to troubleshooting along with other tasks.

After briefly looking at a book concerning Cisco routers it would appear that there is actually something that resembles a command type of prompt that can be used there also.

My take on using the command prompt is that it will also help me with my typing skills (I call it search and destroy) for when I take a C++ class here in the future.

The saddest part? Many of the "younger" students want no part of DOS at all.

by seanferd

Tell them that they will never be 1337 hAxors if they don't learn to use a command line interface. :D

by ben.rattigan

Using the CLI for any OS is important, especially now with the spread of Linux based operating systems which rely heavily still on the command line. Microsoft itself is now introducing the Powershell which can be downloaded for Server 2003 and Exchange 2007. Powershell will be an integral part of the new Windows Server 2008 which can be installed without a GUI interface.

by dumphrey

The "server" is DoS based. It runs a database, pbx, etc.. all on DOS. This sytem allows us to connect another call center in any part of the world, and use/take calls on the system with out having to purchase any new hardware other then a T1 connection to the second call center (datapackets are small and fast, and all calls are voice recorded (highly compressed)).

DOS is still used in many mission critical applications. Some of these are applications that have not really changed since inception, due to no need to evolve. The call center client software changes yearly to bi-yearly, but the back end stays the same. Other are on DOS because its reliable, and a known variable (want to bet nothing on the Space Shuttle runs Vista? or even XP?).

by rayjeff

..and 99% of the operations are done using command-line interfaces. Whether it was working on AS/400 servers, to IMS databases on mainframes; everything was controlled/monitored using the command lines. The only time GUIs were used would be like the 1% with monitoriing the email servers in an Windows environment or if the Windows servers had to beroubleshooted or anything.

I got my appreciation for DOS and command-line interfaces many years ago when i started college. I'm not that old, but old enough to know that learning the command line was IMPORTANT. This was in the says of WIndows 98. In one of my computer systems classes, we had to install Windows 98 using DOS, but first partitioning the hard drive. SIcne you couldn't do that through the Windows 98 installation process you had to learn DOS. So, from then on, whenever I partition a hard drive now, I use the command-line. I love it. So, I guess that amkes me more marketable then these college kiddies who don't want anything to do with the command-line. Hey...wait a minute; I'm STILL in college myself *lol*

by boxfiddler

my not being comfy in DOS is really hurting my ability to quickly and easily pick up on UNIX.

I avoided DOS like the plague when younger, and I am paying for that now by having to work twice as hard as students who are comfy in DOS to complete my UNIX class with a grade that is acceptable to me.

by seanferd

You won't be confounding commands from both systems. Besides, DOS is just a "broken" unix-ish command interface that started out as a hobby, and was little improved by MS (at least as far as variety of available commands goes).

by boxfiddler

My relationship with the computer is all point and click. When it comes to CLI, an entirely different kind of relationship is required. DOS would have introduced me to that kind of relationship.

Others in my class are already accustomed to/comfortable with that kind of relationship. Thus I move along quite slowly in comparison.

I would hazard a guess that some those do however confound commands between systems, if average grades are any indication.

Thank you for the encouragement, btw.

by boxfiddler

I do have DOS 6.22. I'm thinking of trying to run it in a VM on that Linux experiment of a laptop of mine.

by av .

I'm glad they're still teaching DOS. Its an absolute necessity at my job.

As a Net Admin, I use it everyday. Sometimes I use it to support legacy apps (our billing system!) and many times to go around the foibles of the Windows OS. DOS is a great tool and very valid today.

Its good to know that your teacher stresses the importance of DOS. In the real world of networking, its a must have. I couldn't do my job without it.

You'll learn to love DOS, I promise.

AV

by seanferd

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb491071.aspx

Or

http://www.ss64.com/nt/

What I used to find handy (in the days of real DOS) was the user manual. Maybe you can find one in a library. Good for learning how to do batch files, re-directs, etc. While not entirely comprehensive, and a bit byzantine at that, it was a help to me when I got started. Also, if you can find the old DOS help files and install them. Or....
bestodos.zip at http://www.dans20thcenturyabandonware.com/downloads.html

Old stuff, but still helpful when getting started.

by dawgit

Find an old computer, and load DOS on it to play around with. They are fantastic for writing simple machine funtion programs, and great (with a 'Forth' program you can do a lot of really kool stuff as well.) Mine sits there colleting dust most of the time, untill I get to one of those 'huumm' moments, "Let me check that". -Or- when one 'finds' an old program, that someone now needs. X-( In reality though DOS is still in use. -d

by seanferd

This is why I still have a Win98 machine. Of course, I do have a collection of things much older. 386s and a 486. I can't recall what is oldest version of DOS I have, but one runs with the IBM fixed disk organizer (high tech, will knock your socks off!)

by rob miners

I forget who the author was, But I copied this out of a magazine. It stopped the students from modifying my Autoexec.bat files.

BERNIE

One of the first things DOS does after starting up is to look for a file called AUTOEXEC.BAT and try to run it if it's there, right? Not so if it's booting up BERNIE. The mechanism that tries to sniff out the existence of a bootup file is buried in COMMAND.COM. This bootup file doesn't have to be called AUTOEXEC.BAT. In fact it doesn't have to end in .BAT. It's easy to change the name of this bootup file to something like BERNIE. We have all experienced some DOS programs that have insisted that they modify AUTOEXEC.BAT even if there is no need to do so. EG: Games. It also confuses the daylights out of anyone who snoops on your PC when you are not there.

First make copies of COMMAND.COM and AUTOEXEC.BAT and stash them in a safe place. To return your system to normal just copy them back over the modified COMMAND.COM and AUTOEXEC.BAT.

Here is how we do it.

Copy DEBUG.COM from your DOS Directory to the ROOT Directory.

To get the ball rolling enter
DEBUG COMMAND.COM.
You should see a hyphen at the left edge of the screen. This is the DEBUG prompt. Type in
S 100 5000 "AUTO"
and DEBUG should print two pairs of four digit hexadecimal numbers, (hex numbers can be made up of 0-9 A-F), separated by a colon. Ignore the leftmost four digits they will vary from system to system and we don't need them anyway. Take note of the rightmost four digits: this is where the name \AUTOEXEC.BAT is located inside COMMAND.COM.
Now enter
E**** "DOS\BERNIE "
but substitute those rightmost digits for ****. EG: if your digits were 54BA:130F you would use 130F as your four digits. Note: leave two blank spaces before the quotation marks at the end of BERNIE " the characters have to add up to eight EG: BERNIE = six characters AUTOEXEC = eight. Remember if your new name for AUTOEXEC doesn't add up to eight characters, space in the remainder before the quote marks.

Now type W, hit the enter key, type Q, and hit the enter key.

Finally, copy your AUTOEXEC.BAT routine to the DOS subdirectory and name it BERNIE or whatever you called it, and then delete AUTOEXEC.BAT from the root directory.
EG: copy autoexec.bat\dos\bernie
del autoexec.bat

You can then create a phony AUTOEXEC.BAT file in the root directory that contains the line
Access Denied or something like Network isn't Responding See your Administrator.

by seanferd

Sounds like more fun than hacking Windows files to replace the icon and text on the Start button, and much more functional.

Do you think that the hack would be in violation of the MS EULA? Not that I really care in that case, as one wouldn't be "taking revenue" from MS.

by rob miners

There is really a lot of info available on DOS. It is just a matter of finding a Version to play with. I like to setup in a Virtual Machine. That way if I stuff up I can just reset it. :)

by seanferd

but I can't. Maybe soon this will change.

You're right, let's not inundate Boxfiddler, she is learning Unix right now. :)

by boxfiddler

I'm currently in possession of a B in the class. :( I want an A! But I want my mommy too...

Thanks you guys for the great links! I have bookmarked this and made it available offline for future exploration.

Feel free to inundate, I will just store it away for future ingestion.

Yall are the best around here. :)

by rob miners

violating the MS EULA. Debug is there to be used. It saved me a hell of a lot of work. If you have ever worked in a school environment you would know where I am coming from. The little darlings used to pinch the Terminators from the BNC Cable, just to bring down that section of the net. You always had to try to be two steps ahead of them. I ended up running several batch files at startup to enable me to find the User, Computer and Date/Time when they logged on that saved the info to a folder on the Server. It was amazing, when the Students got wind of what was happening the Vandalism almost completely stopped and they stopped trying to modify my files. It didn't stop them from installing Games though but that is another story.

by seanferd

I was only curious about it in terms of altering MS files, I didn't know that they had intended it to be used to alter system files.

The only thing I've ever used Debug for was to write small asm programs. I am entirely out of touch with that now, however.

by rob miners

wasn't meant to be used that way. But for me it was a means to an end. No I haven't used it for years either. WinDbg is the tool of choice nowdays, used for different purposes though.

by rob miners

This is the book that I used to learn about it. I had to purchase it for a course that I took. It is worth it's weight in gold. I have worked right through it several times. It's a wonder that someone hasn't started putting these out as EBooks.

Mastering DOS 6 Special Edition
Judd Robbins
ISBN: 0-7821-1236-6

by j-mart

Can sill get many tasks done faster and with less effort than can often be done with a GUI.

by charliespencer

GUI's are great for daily operations, but command line interfaces are going to be required for anything but the most basic troubleshooting. Get comfortable with a keyboard interface; you'll use it throughout your career, and not just on Windows systems.

by charliespencer

Assuming you're already comfortable with VM's, it shouldn't be too much trouble. By today's standards, DOS 6.22 doesn't require much in the way of resources.

by hal 9000

After all how can I continue to justify having several different computers at home?

[b]SWMBO[/b] is constantly complaining that I have too many but I think 30 not enough. :(

Col

by dawgit

Palmetto: I'm still holding out for "Battle Chess". (he's a looking... and waiting... and looking... and waiting... )-d

Col: That makes me feel much better. I quit counting at 20+ :^0 -d

edited to make it a 2-fer. -d

by dumphrey

can ease a lot of daily routine. And much can be done with just the cmd line tools in windows without ever moving into VBS.

Example,

I have a batch file for pulling users out of AD, and their last log on time and dumping it to the screen, another to pull user names and email addresses, machine hostnames in AD...
Nothing major, but vast time savers over tying it all in one at a time.
And with a file of machine hostnames and a few sysinternals utilities, the network is your oyster.

by dumphrey

go out now and download Masters of Magic. Its abandonware and one of the best games of all times. Bless you Microprose. Its Dos based, but will run on 95-XP (with fiddling). You will need graphics enabled.

by dumphrey

book, a big reddish maroon book. The Xp version is out now and is purple. A very good book. The Windows Command line reference from MS press is a damn good buy if you can find it on the bargain tables instead of full price.

by rob miners

I picked up the Windows 2000 Administrators Handbook for $20 AUS. I will keep a lookout for the purple book.

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