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by var1016 1 view

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Connect two computers together, so that they may be operated via a single keyboard and monitor?

In this case both computers are fitted with network cards. Both run the same OS (XP Pro).

Thanks in advance,

Paul

123 replies

by thechas

The simplest way to operate 2 computers from a single keyboard and mouse would be to use a KVM switch. This works best if the computers are within a few feet of each other.

With an automatic KVM switch, you use a hot-key sequence to switch between the computers.

If the computers are too far apart to use a KVM, you can enable Remote Desktop on the second computer and operate it from the first computer.

There are security risks in using Remote Desktop. So, I would not use it for systems that are not behind a hardware firewall.

Chas

by thumbsup2

Even using a KVM switch, the two computers still need to be on the same Workgroup or Domain in order to "see" each other if you're trying to copy files from one to the other (as in setting up a new machine for one of your users).

By the way, KVM stands for Keyboard, Video, Mouse. You connect one of each to the switch, then share all 3 between computers. The KVM I use will handle 4 different computers, but they come in different sizes.

by var1016

Thank you ThumbsUp2 - this covered exactly what I was thinking about: I should like to use the two computers "together" as it were, say transferring files etc.

I suspect that this implies a hub and means of connection - which in my case would be ethernet cables.

Thanks again

Paul

by var1016

Thank you Chas for this information.

This seems to be a good answer to my question.

My aim is to use the two computers in such a way that they can communicate with each other - e.g. I could download a file and transfer it.

Can this be done or whould a network hum and ethernet cables be another vuable approach?

Thanks again.

Paul

by oh smeg

Keyboard, Mouse & Video it in itself doesn't allow the 2 computers to communicate with each other so you need to have them on the Same Workgroup and connected together on some kind of LAN.

This could be as simple as a Cross Over Cable between the 2 computers and a Simple Peer to Peer LAN running. This way you could download a file to 1 computer and then using the Network Neighborhood transfer it to the other Computer or open a folder on one computer from the other and install across the network. It's really fairly simple.

And KMV Switches come in different sizes. I use a very simple one that has a Remote switch on the desktop which is a round push Switch to switch between the different computers for a 2 Station Setup like you are asking about. Not my preferred idea here but it is very effective and easy to use as well as cheap & reliable. You only have the one button to press and it toggles between the 2 computers with no messing around.

The actual Switch itself has 2 sockets for PS2 Mouse & Keyboard Plugs and a Monitor Plug which can be DVI or VGA depending on the actual Switch. Some come with USB Support as well if it is necessary. The Cheap Plastic one costs about $35.00 AU + the cost of the Patch Leads which are a 3 Lead molded lead with 2 PS2 Sockets at each end and the VGA socket. The KMV Leads with VGA Connectors cost about $11.00 AU each but you may get this cheaper as a complete set with the Switch & leads in the one box. You'll just have to look around to see what is available locally for you. While not my first option Belkin does have a simple Home Unit available or they did have last time I looked.

These come in 2, 4 or more ports and can switch as many computers as required by daisy chaining them. I personally stick with 16 Port Rack Mounted Switches for my personal use for the Test Rigs and so on but I do have a couple of 4 Way units that are used for some Nix Boxes. The draw back with the Home 4 way ones is that they only have the 1 Push Button which rolls around all 4 Ports.

You connect the KMV Leads to the Switch at one end and the other end goes tot he Computers. You then connect the Keyboard, Mouse & Monitor to the Switch and go from there. Some of the cheap ones require you to be logged onto that particular computer before you can boot the computer the better ones will allow you to start all of the connected computers and then switch between them as required without getting any BIOS Errors of no connected Keyboard or Mouse.

Try looking here to see what they look like.

http://tinyurl.com/64ynau

Col

by var1016

Thanks for another comprehensive expos?!

You say " a simple cross-over cable"; does this mean I would not need a hub, but could connect the two computers with an ethernet cable?

I see the point about the keyboard!

Thanks again

Paul

by oh smeg

Except the Wire Pairs are crossed over between the 2 plugs. With one of these you will not need a Hub.

So say that with the Green & White Pair the Green goes to Point 1 and the White goes to Point 2 at one end and at the other end the Green goes to Point 2 and the White to Point one. This allows you to have the 2 computers communicate without the need of a Hub or similar device. But if you are feeding these from a 4 Port Router you need 2 CAT5 Leads to connect the Computers to the Router for your Internet Access. If there is going to be a long run involved between the 2 computers you can use a short Crossover Patch Lead with it joined to a standard CAT5 Lead for the required length. This will be cheaper as Crossover Leads are more expensive and the Straight CAT5 Leads. Also when you buy any Crossover Leads make sure that they are a different color to normal CAT5/6 Cables as the Sticker on the lead falls off and then you don't know what you have without having a cable tester handy. The biggest problem is that some makers are using the same cable to make Cat %/6 & Crossover Leads and these do get mixed up all along the supply chain so you can get the wrong lead.

If you connect the computers to a Single Port Modem you'll need 2 NIC Cards in 1 of the computers. And these need to be the same type so if you have a Gigabit Connection built onto the M'Board you need to add a second Gigabit NIC to this computer to have any Internet Access. If you have a 100 T Base you need to use a 100 T Base NIC in the PCI Slot as if you mix Gigabite and 100 T Base the computers do not work. Well at least the last time I found a computer setup this way it didn't. Of course the person who built it claimed that he did nothing new to the thing before it stopped working but the moment I removed the NIC the thing started an booted properly. When I refitted the Card it failed to boot. After replacing the NIC with the same type as the On Board one the system booted and found new hardware. I've not tried mixing NIC's Types since or prior for that matter. :D

If you use a USB Lead to the Modem you may be able to share the Internet Connection to Both computers it should be possible but this isn't something I've ever had to do so I'm not sure if it's possible or how reliable it is. I tend to avoid USB Modems because they have proved unreliable in the past.

Col

by 1bn0

You need to network the computers to allow transfering files between the machines.

Hub, switch or cross-over cable as the others have explained.

You can use Remote Desktop connection to open a remote session to the second machine from the forst one.

This let you access the desktop on the second machine as if it was an appliction running on the first computer.

If you have two monitors? You can use one keyboard and mouse to access both desktops.

I use WinVNC and WIN2VNC. WinVNC includes both a client and server component. The server allows a remote client to connect to the computer and take control. The client is the application the remote user uses to gain access.

Win2VNC is a modified WinVNC client that only remotes the keyboard and mouse but not the Monitor. Once connected you simply slide your mouse the edge of your main dekstop and the mouse and keyboard control jump to the second machine. Win2VNC can be configured to align the second machine from any edge of the main client. Top, Bottom, Left or Right. (north south east west in the program).

You can run multiple instances, up to 4, at the same time. Yes it works, I have tested it. I use it every day at work.

Notebook----Dell Desktop----IBM Desktop
Keyboard&Mouse

It's like having a virtual KVM. Move your mouse to one of the other computers and click to switch the keyboard focus to that machine.

by var1016

"This let you access the desktop on the second machine as if it was an appliction running on the first computer."

Yes this is what I am after: I would like really to be able to access the second computer as though it were another appplication. Unfortunately I have only one monitor, one keyboard and one mouse!

I will look up WinVNC.

Thanks very much

Paul

by rob miners

Paul. Remote Desktop is built into XP Pro.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsXp/using/mobility/getstarted/Remoteintro.mspx

Once you have connected the two PC's and have it enabled and password protected just connect the keyboard to the second PC that you want to access and start it up. That should stop it complaining about not haveing a keyboard. You do not need to logon. Reconnect the keyboard back to the PC that you are using to manipulate the other PC and you are in business.

by var1016

I have to say that you people must think I am at least a couple of cans short of a six-pack! Excellent thank you, now I am moving forward a bit.

The next step is to find out more about CAT 5 leads - such as who sells them - or perhaps see if I cannot make my modem router work whilst keeping the free phone service provided by my ISP's modem. Actually I found the manual for the latter and as I understand it (it's in French...) it seems to offer wireless but I cannot understand the procedures to get it going! (even in English it would be a struggle!)

If I go the lead connection route, do I need fixed IP addresses? - I don't understand why I need IP addresses if the computers are wired together

Best wishes,

Paul

by rob miners

this way. You are a postman, if the houses didn't have numbers you would have a hard time delivering the mail to the right house.

Computers work in a similar way when they are Networked. The IP Address is the equivalent to the house number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address

by var1016

Today ebay is behaving itself: I now have the correct cable on the way!

Thanks to all

Paul

by var1016

That's straightforward enough, I get that, but if the postman was attached to the house with a rope, how could he miss!

Paul

by ---tk---

Think of it like this, The postman is blind too, and the rope got cut. The computers need to establish a way of communication. Example: PC1 can communicate at 10 megs per sec, PC2 can communicate at 1000 megs per sec. if PC2 does not tone it down, PC1 will not be able to handle the load. Then they will not be able to communicate.

by var1016

Yes,

I am beginning to appreciate that this business is awfully complex!

Best wishes

Paul

by rob miners

the postman was given the wrong address. Unless the mail is deliverd to the right address there will be no comunication.

by var1016

Thanks!

But the problem I have with this is that in this case the computers are physically wired together; obviously I have not understood how computers connect (or talk perhaps) to one another.

I na?vely assumed that if they are literally connected then the networking software would detect the other machine and that thye would then communicate.

I have so much to learn!

Best wishes

Paul

by rob miners

say that your modem has an IP Address of 192.168.0.1

PC 1 will have an IP Address of 192.168.0.2

PC 2 will have an IP Address of 192.168.0.3

They are all on the same street with diferent house numbers. 1,2,3

by oh smeg

But if you look here

http://tinyurl.com/66qbub

You should find all the Network Leas that you can ever dream of though I can recommend that you stear clear of the Listed RJ45 Splitters as they will not work in your situation. I just have a quick look and there are no Cross Over Cables Listed only CAT5.

But if you want to buy off E Bay this is what you are looking for

http://tinyurl.com/5smtzk

But I would really suggest walking into the nearest Office Shop and buying a Crossover Cable there. Sometimes these are refeed to as a Patch Lead because they used to be used to join or Patch two Hubs/Switches together to allow more connections.

Col

by rob miners

in case you haven't already found them.

Click Start and right click My Computer, select Properties and then Remote. Check that the boxes for Remote Assistance and Remote Desktop have a tick in them.

Be sure that both computers are logged in to Windows with an Account on each with the same Logon ID.
Connect each end of the cat5 crossover cables in to the network cards of each computer.

In order for both PC's to be able to communicate together, the Ethernet adapters will need to be configured with a static IP address and a common Subnet mask. As an example, assign one PC an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and assign the second PC an IP address of 192.168.0.2. Both machines should use the Subnet mask 255.255.255.0. Here's how to configure your Network Card: Go to Start, Control Panel, Network Connections and right click your Local Area Connection and select Properties. Scroll the list for the entry titled: Internet Protocol (TCP/IP). Click the entry and select Properties. Under the General tab, tick the box titled: Use the following IP address. Enter the IP address and Subnet mask that you would like to use.

Repeat the steps above for the second computer system.
Because you are using XP Pro they will already be in the same Workgroup so you can skip this step.
Be sure that both PC's have a common workgroup name of 15 characters or less. Here's how: Go to Start, Control Panel and System. Select the Computer Name tab. Click the Change button. Change the Workgroup name. Repeat these instructions on the second computer ensuring that both computers are named exactly the same.
Reboot both computer systems.

Next, open a command prompt on one of the computers by going to Start,Run and Type in cmd and press Enter or click OK.

Type in ping 192.168.0.2 (if you are using the computer assigned with 192.168.0.01) press Enter.
Four TTL replies to your ping should be indicated. eg:TTL=128

Note: If you receive a "timed out" message when attempting to ping your selected IP address. It is possible that the Internet Connection Firewall is interfering. Try right clicking on "My Network Places", then select Properties. Right click your Local Area Connection and select Properties once again. Click the Advanced tab. Click Settings, Exceptions and check to ensure that File and Printer Sharing, Remote Assistance and Remote Desktop have a Tick in the box.

Rob

by var1016

Thanks Rob,

Copied and saved.

One thing, regarding the IP address, should I be using the ones you supplied, or should I use the one that I find on my computer? And if the latter, how exactly should I choose the second address? I have looked at ipconfig /all and I see my given IP address there together with subnet mask and default gateway. Default gateway differs from the IP address only in terms of the last number group, but the first is 139 and the second 254 - the rest of the addresses being the same: 82.65.65.

Thanks

Paul

by rob miners

If the first PC has the Address 82.65.65.139 and the Gateway is 82.65.65.254 make the second PC 82.65.65.140 and the Gateway will be the IP Address of the first PC 82.65.65.139 and the DNS will have the same IP 82.65.65.139

by var1016

I started on this and as instructed, set up the IP address on this computer - in fact to the address that ipconfig /all gave me.

As soon as I had done this I lost my connection to the internet. Restoring Automatically detect settings got me back my connection. Interestingly ipconfig reveals that the address I entered is the one that automatic detection has assigned.

I am afraid that this is going to be difficult!

Regards

Paul

by rob miners

Leave you main PC to Autodetect and try this for us. This is on your main PC.

Click Start, Run and type in cmd and press Enter.

At the command line type in:

ipconfig /all > c:\ip.txt and press Enter.

Exit the command prompt and open Explorer and navigate to c:\ip.txt. Open it with Notepad and paste the contents for us to have a look at.

by rob miners

go to the other PC and set it like this.

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 82.65.177.206

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

Leave the Gateway and DNS blank. See if you have a connection.

by var1016

Hello. I'll have to do this tomorrow evening as it's a bit late now and I have to do all the plugging etc.

Before I do I shall follow the procedure, but of course I will probably have to use tomorrow's IP address.

It's a shame one cannot have an IP address that does not change!

Thanks very much,

Paul

by var1016

Thanks.

I have just checked, and today my IP address is 82.65.177.205, with the default the same but ending in 254.

Now if the IP address keeps changing how can I be sure of connecting to my other computer? I shall try to follow your earlier instructions and set up some addresses and hope for the best!

Best

Paul

by var1016

Hello,

Well I managed that at least! Here are the results (note IP address changed from yesterday):

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : var1016-fcef180

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 5:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller #2

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-16-E6-1E-5A-F0

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes

Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 82.65.177.205

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 82.65.177.254

DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 82.65.177.254

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 212.27.54.252

212.27.53.252

Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 03 August 2008 22:51:24

Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 03 August 2008 23:01:24

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 4:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-E0-4C-5D-10-2B

Paul

by rob miners

of the Modem and we will see if we can't get you a Static connection.

by oh smeg

Run the Network Setup Wizard and you need to tell this system that it connects directly tot he Internet and that other computers on your network connect through it. Then enable File & Printer Sharing as you work your way through the Network Setup Wizard. When you come tot he second computer all you need to do is run the Network Setup Wizard and tell it that it's connects through another computer on the network to the Internet and enable File & Printer Sharing.

You will find the Network Setup Wizard in the Start- Show all Programs=Accessories-Communications.

Lets know how you get on.

Col

by var1016

Thanks very much. I have set this up and it runs - but: I cannot access the files on the second computer, I can only see shared documents, shared pictures and shared music features that I never use.

What I wanted to do is to "see" the other computer on my one monitor and access any files, programs etc. - in other words run either computer with one mouse, one keyboard, one monitor.

Is this possible?

Thanks in advance

Paul

by oh smeg

You need to go to the other computer right click on what you want to share then left click on Sharing in the Drop Down Menu and set as required.

If you want to be able to change files you need to set this but if you only want to be able to read files you can just select Share.

It's not a great idea to Share the Boot Drive as you can damage the OS install if you are not careful but otherwise sharing everything else is OK.

Col

by var1016

Hello Rob.

Well as I have written below (reply to OH Smeg) I have set up a "network" which works but doesn't give me what I want which is to run either computer from one screen, one keyboard, one mouse - I would like to transfer files without emailing and so on.

Regarding the modem I cannot tell you much about it. It is a "Freebox", supplied by Free my ISP. There is no information, except what's in French in the manual and I suspect that none of that will be helpful; as I said it does apparently offer wireless, but I have no idea how to do that...

Best wishes,

Paul

by var1016

Thank you,

I shall try this, but I cannot see how to get out of having one of those KMV switches.

When I switch on the "second" computer, I have to press to get in and of course to close. Without either a KMV switch or second monitor, keyboard, mouse I am a bit stuck I think! I can manage the keyboard and mouse, but not the monitor. (I do have a monitor selector switch but need to get one more VGA cable) but I really already have too many cables here!

Thanks again for your help.
Paul

by oh smeg

To run heedlessly that is without a Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse and Remote Desktop in to it. Though you would have to set the BIOS not to Halt on all errors and you would have to do away with any Log On prompts so that the system just goes straight into Windows after it boots but I really think a 2 Station KMV Switch is the better way to go.

OH BTW Paul I don't have to many wires at the back of my main workstation I only require 23 Mains Plugs to run everything on 1 computer. That is a lot of wires I very much doubt you have that many and I'm not even counting the printers which are away from the main workstation 3 Printers on a Switch and 2 USB ones. :D

But if you like I have a 25 Way KMV Switch with that many Computers racked now that has a Lot of Wires associated with it. Luckily i can stuff most of them out of sight down the back of the rack but they do trap a lot of dust and other rubbish. I don't like to coil up Electrical Wires as it promotes EM Fields so I make the Mains Leads to Length and that is a lot of leads in a rack that big even the KMV switch is rack mounted and has it's own power lead but it only has one unlike the computers plugged into it which all have 2 Mains Leads owing to the redundant Power Supplies that I use.

Col

by var1016

That's thumbs-ups; you probably have more wires... Well I haven't, I am sure, got a fraction of your equipment, but there's a hell of a tangle under my table - all that plugging/unplugging doesn't help either!
Paul

by rob miners

as I have previously pointed out that after the PC has been setup and the user account created you can then

log off and remove the monitor and keyboard but leave the PC running. You do not have to be logged on to the

PC to be able to remote to it. as it only needs to be running.

Reconnect the monitor and keyboard to your main PC. The keyboard will only be connected to the other PC for

starting it up.

To use Remote Desktop

Note: If you're not connecting to the host computer through a VPN, you'll need to use the actual IP address of

the host computer instead of the computer name.

To set up the Remote Desktop, start with the host computer, which in this example is your work computer.

1.
Verify that you are signed in as the administrator.

2.
Click Start, click Control Panel, and then click Performance and Maintenance.

3.
Click System.

4.
Click the Remote tab, select the Allow users to connect remotely to this computer check box, and then click

OK.

Next, make sure you have Windows Firewall set up to allow exceptions.

1.
In the Control Panel, click Security Center.

2.
Under Manage security settings for, click Windows Firewall.

3.
Make sure the Don't allow exceptions check box is not selected.

4.
Click the Exceptions tab, and verify that the Remote Desktop check box is selected.

5.
Click OK, and then close the Windows Security Center window.
Your host computer is now set up to allow remote access.

You will need the name of the host computer.

6.
In Control Panel, click Performance and Maintenance, click System, and then click the Computer Name tab.

7.
Write down the full computer name, and then click OK. This is where you will need th IP address.

8.
Close Control Panel.

9.
Leave this computer running, locked, and connected to the corporate network with Internet access.

Connect your remote computer to the host computer
To connect your home computer, which is the client (or remote) computer to your work (or host) computer,

follow these steps:

1.
On your home computer, click Start, point to All Programs, and then point to Accessories.

2.
In the Accessories menu, point to Communications, and then click Remote Desktop Connection.

3.
In the Computer box, type the computer name of your host computer, which you wrote down earlier.

4.
Click Connect.

5.
When the Log On to Windows dialog box appears, type your user name, password, and domain (if required), and

then click OK.

The Remote Desktop window opens, and you see the desktop settings, files, and programs that are on your host

computer, which in this example is your work computer. Your host computer remains locked, and nobody can

access it without a password. In addition, no one will be able to see the work you are doing remotely.

To end your Remote Desktop session:

1.
Click Start, and then click Log Off at the bottom of the Start menu.

2.
When prompted, click Log Off.

Tip! If you check the Options you will see that you can connect your Disk Drives to manipulate Files so really you dont have to Share anything.

by var1016

Thank you for all this - a lot of work for which I am most grateful - especially as my memory is far from robust!

As soon as I have a bit of spare time I shall try your suggestions.

I have organised a second keyboard and mouse - a monitor is beyond my resources both monetary and in terms of space. Will remote desktop allow me fully to control the second PC - i.e. shut down? If not, then I must get a second VGA cable and then I can switch between to two computers (I hope) using my little switch box.
Best wishes

Paul

by rob miners

When you open the Remote Desktop you will be on the General Page. You will see something like this if it is pre SP3.

Computer: this is where you type in the Name or the IP Address of the PC that you wish to connect to.

User Name: this is the user that was created on the remote PC.

Password: this is the password that was created for the user on the remote PC.

Domain: this is the domain or workgroup that you are using. You will type in workgroup.

Save my password: you can tick this box if you like.

Save as: this will allow you to save a shortcut to the connection. I normally rename it and place it on the Desktop.

Open: this will allow you to open a saved shortcut.

Display TAB:

Choose the size of your remote desktop. I normally leave it at Full Screen.

Colors: I use 16 bit. I leave the box ticked for Display the connection bar when in full screen mode. It is handy to minimise the screen.

Local Resources TAB:

Remote computer sound: I leave it as Bring to this computer.

Keyboard: Apply windows key combinations. In full screen mode only.

Local Devices: Connect automatically to these local devices when logged on to the remote computer.

Put a tick in the box for Disk drives. You will have access to your local drives.

I normally untick the next two boxes.

Programs: I leave this area blank as I am not running anything from the other PC.

Experience: Choose the connection speed to optimise performance.

Select Lan (10 Mbps or higher)

I hope that this helps Paul.

< speel chuker not working >

by rob miners

you were sitting at it. Shutdown and restart is the same as if you were physically at it. The only thing to remember is that if you shut it down you are going to have to walk over to it to turn it back on. I normally turn mine on in the morning and shutdown at night when I am finished. It will open up a new world for you when you are up and running.

by oh smeg

I try to and it seems to work. Once they are installed you don't need to touch then again but I do avoid coils in Mains Leads and I do keep the other Leads away from the Mains Leads because of interference issues.

With Network Cabling you are supposed to keep all Network Cables at least 4 inches away from Electrical Wiring which is easy inside of the walls but I do see many people who forget all about the need to separate CAT 5 & 6 Cables from Electrical Leads once they emerge from the wall. I try to keep everything at least 12 inches apart at all times and as a result I have far fewer Networking Problems than some others who stick to the standard religiously or just ignore the standards. I remember getting called into one place to fix a Networking Problem and I found one CAT 5 cable twisted around a Electrical Lead under the building for about 165 feet. Took about 3 hours to fix that one up and I did get very dirty in the process as I wasn't expecting to have to go crawling about in the dirt on my back with 12 inches of clearance and I didn't have a staple gun with me so I had to just make do with what I had on hand. So instead of a drop sheet to lie on I was dragging myself through the dirt on my back unwinding the Network Cable and rerunning it again. At the end I had to cut off about 10 feet of cable that was just wasted there. :^0

Or another time when the builders had been in and put up a office in the workshop of a place they caught a network Lead in the cavity of a concrete wall with a Tiger Bolt. Of course the network didn't drop out straight away it lasted another 3 weeks before dieing. Of course finding the problem wasn't easy and replacing the lead was almost impossible. If those builders had of tried to damage the place they couldn't have done a better job. But the best one was crawling into a Ceiling and finding a dead possum that was interesting. :(

Anyway if you need any help just ask

Cheers

Col

by var1016

Hello,

Well I followed all the instructions, but nothing is connecting: there is nowhere to enter the IP address anyway (apart from Domain - is this the IP address?) or did you mean that I use this as the "computer name"? I have tried the name of the workgroup, the name of the computer and the ip address; nothing happens.

I have got the sharing thing up and running but it isn't giving me exactly what I want; from what you say the remote thing would be better.

Thanks again

Paul

by var1016

Thanks for this, but it still doesn't work.

And the "network" could hardly be simpler: two computers, two feet apart connected with a cable!

Paul

by 1bn0

ON each machine.

Start | Run enter "CMD" in the box to open a dos prompt.

ipconfig /all. Copy and paste the results from each computer.

If your Network is configured properly. e.g The IP addressing is O.K., Rmote Desktop should not be a hassle.

First: On the headless (no monitor) computer. There should be an option(s) in the BIOS to NOT report any errors from the keyboard or mouse or just no errors. This is used for servers as they usually do not have either and you do not want them to pause in bootup wating for inoput because they do not see the mouse or keyboard.

Enable Remote Desktop on the headless machine (before you remove the K,V,M)

Control Panel | System Properties (Classic View)

Control Panel | Performance and Maintenance | System (Category View)

Click on the Remote tab. Check "Allow users to connect remotely to this computer"

Administrator can connect by default. TO allow ANY other account besides Administrator to connect , you must add them to the list of allowed users.

Click on "Select Remote Users"
Just click on ADD and then type the username of the account you use to logon (on that machine)and it should be added to the list.

Ok,Ok,Ok.

Go to the second computer. THe one you will be leaving the K,V,& M connected to.

Start | Run enter "MSTSC" in the box to open Remote Desktop. (MicroSoft Terminal Services Client)

Enter the ip address of the second computer and you should beable to follow the logon sequence from there.

by oh smeg

If it's not you'll be unable to get the two computers to talk to each other.

Col

by var1016

Thanks for these, most entertaining although I doubt that you were "entertained" with those problems

Thanks

Paul

by Former member

Remote Computer Access allows the user to control any computer from another computer. Usually this is a common task for a network administrator, but nowadays many people have more than one computer and switching between them takes a lot of time. Imagine, you can sit at your place of work and control your home computer. You can help your friends or family solve problems on their computers, watching on your own monitor and using your own mouse and keyboard! No more need for long phone calls to explain clicks and key presses. No more need to go to the office immediately to solve easy or stupid problems.
http://www.sharewareconnection.com/remote-computer-access.htm

Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

by var1016

Thanks Peconet.

I installed this successfully on one of the computers.

Sadly it would not install on the second: I got a most peculiar message: a black screen appeared (like cmd) and a dialog box that said something about DOS 16-bit and "illegal instruction".

Paul

by Former member

To link up two computers (i think someone mentioned it before on here). Is to mark your hdd as share, (from the computer you need to access to), and then all you do is copy over or delete files of what ever size, you will not be able to control the computer as such but use it as a server of sorts.

Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

by var1016

Thanks very much. I have set up remote successfully - I get the log in box and so on, but cannot connect.

I have a keyboard and mouse for the non-monitor computer, so that's not a problem. I even had a cheap VGA switch, but that packed up after half an hour!

The big bore is this IP address business. As I explained somewhere above, everyday I have a different IP address!

Best wishes and thanks again

Paul

by oh smeg

The systems are set to Auto Select IP Address. So effectively at every turn on you can have a different IP Address within the specified range which by default is something like 125 Possible Addresses.

In practice however the IP Addresses should remain the same but may change between the different computers depending on which one was started first. The First one to load Windows will get the lower IP Address the next one to start will get the next one up and so on till everything you have is running. That Includes any Modems that you have connected though they tend to keep the same address.

With Remote Desktop you really should have a Password as well because Windows works better this way. It can be something as simple as a 1 Digit Character or something like the number 1 on the number Keypad. Anything here will make it better.

Hope that is of some use.

Cheers

Col

by var1016

Thanks for this.

In fact I leave the second computer on all the time because it's a bore crawling under the table to replug the monitor since my cheap VGA switch died and of course I cannot shut down properly without a screen to see where I am!

I'll do something about the password!

Paul

by var1016

Hello.

Oh yes, it's definitely a crossover cable: I can access the files (but not programs)on the second computer using the method you suggested, but I would like this remote desktop idea since it seems I shall have full control of the second computer.

Best wishes

Paul

by var1016

For your persistence!

I followed your instructions (note I do not use a password), ran ipconfig /all, got the IP address entered it and once again nothing.

Reminds me of the time I was at my girlfriend's place and she had bought some wireless USB things so that she could use her laptop in wifi and at home when I was there I could fool about on the laptop while she did serious stuff on her desktop. "Set up in five minutes" said the blurb on the boxes. Bullshit (typically): after about two hours of (my)swearing and (our) chain-smoking she finally figured it out. Apparently, there are "channels"; the instructions said absolutely nothing about this; unbelievable. My clever girlfriend figured this out somehow and got it going. I suppose it was just as well we were not trying to network the computers!

Best wishes and thanks again,
Paul

Paul

by rob miners

passwords Paul. XP doesn't like to connect without them.

by var1016

That I couldn't install the program.

I do have file sharing enabled and it works OK, but as I wrote earlier I want complete control of the second computer.

Thanks again

Paul

by var1016

Thanks Peconet; this worked straight away, but I would not want to pay for the program: it is very slow and with poor picture quality. I would agree that it would be a good solution for business people who need access to documents and spreadsheets etc.

I imagine that it would be better with a super-fast Internet connection, but I am in rural France; my download speed is normally about 1.5MB/s, upload about 140kb/s.

I wonder if Remote Desktop (if I could ever make it work) would be better?

Using "My Network Places" opening files is instant and just as though I was on the second computer, but it is limited - and being told that I am not allowed to access things on my own computer which is about three inches from my right leg, makes me angrier than I care to be!

Best wishes

Paul

by rob miners

You don't need to have a Monitor connected to the PC, just a Keyboard.

To configure Windows XP to use the classic logon and shutdown screens for every logon session, follow these steps:1. Click Start, and then click Control Panel.

2. Double-click User Accounts.

3. Click Change the way users log on or off.

4. Clear the Use the Welcome screen check box.

When you want to Shut the PC down press CTRL+ALT+DEL, TAB, TAB and press Enter.

The PC will now Shut Down.

by the 'g-man.'

Use VMWare.

VMWare ESX Server - transfer both machines on to it and configure the virtual network.

or

Insall VMWare server on one of the machines and transfer the second machine to it. Configure virtual networking.

by var1016

Thanks for this.

I have had a quick look at VM's site and might even download the VMServer.

I suspect I shall be even more confused though as these are all very radical new concepts for me: "virtualisation" for example: what is that?!

Virtual networking? And all I thought I needed was a piece of wire and "The XP Wizard"!

Thanks again and best wishes,

Paul

by var1016

Hello again.

I cannot install VMWare Server because it says that Microsoft IIS is not installed on my computer. Well I have searched under this and installed something called Microsoft IIS Manager. This apparently is not what I need. I cannot find anything except add-ons for IIS. Can someone point me to the download?

I should add that I have searched Microsoft's website fairly thoroughly; now I will try Wikipedia!

EDIT: No need: thanks to VMWare's support pages I found out that IIS is actually in the Windows CD - funny Microsoft couldn't tell me that although of course I had the option of paying $59 to find out. I think that that is rubbish!

So soon I should be able to install VMWare...

Thanks

Paul

by oh smeg

Go to the Control Panel then Add Remove Programs and left click on Add Remove Windows Components on the left hand side. Add ticks tot he Various Networking and whatever else you need installed. Make sure that you have the Install CD in the Drive and then click on Next and allow the services to be installed.

Col

by var1016

I have successfully installed VMWare and it starts up, but I cannot use it - it keeps going on about virtual machines and I want to connect to a real one - it's connected with a wire to the other one about two feet away. Or, it asks for all sorts of information that I have no idea where to find and for decisions I do not know how to make!

I shall try again to understand what they are talking about, but I fear that it is aimed at people far better qualified than I.

Paul

by the 'g-man.'

I should point out that this can get complicated.

What you are essentially doing is running two systems from 1 box and negating the need for a second. The two systems can share all resources and access each other if done correctly.

http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/

by var1016

"I should point out that this can get complicated."

Can get? It already is! "NAT", "DHCP"; these are just two I have looked up on Wiki...

OK i'll have a look at converter.

Thanks

Paul

by var1016

I am very grateful to all of you for your efforts in trying to help me with this nightmare. The fact is that it simply doesn't work.

Yes, of course I know that there are networks all over the world that work fine.

This one doesn't - and I cannot get over the fact that it is just two computers and a bit of wire!.

Gotomypc worked once (it won't work today, it says that the computer is off and not connected to the Internet. Nonsense: it is and it is).

Remote Desktop: no chance: impossible to connect - nothing happens - no error messages

VMWare: this looks interesting, but I simply cannot understand what it's all about - too complex and technical for me. I simply don't understand why everything has to be "virtual" - and I don't understand what a "virtual server or PC" is.

"My Network Places" works fine and is totally reliable, but of course does not give me all I wanted.

I suppose I shall have to settle for second best.

Best wishes and thanks again

Paul

by clarkd038

buy a simple KVM, plug both computers into it and then plug the monitor and keyboard and mouse into it as well.

There will be a switch on the KVM to show you which port you are on. This will determine what computer you are looking at.

by var1016

Yes this has been suggested.

Thanks, but I would like a simple network connection; however there seems to be no such thing, so it appears that the answer to my original question is a resounding "No"!

Paul

by var1016

Thanks.

I have installed pretty much everything.

I have attempted to connect using a selection of IP addresses. With some of them nothing happens, with others, finally I get an error message, which is progress of a kind I suppose.

After a while thinking about it, it says "The client could not connect to the remote computer. Remote connections might not be enabled [they are I think]or the computer may be too busy to accept new connections. It is possible that network problems [surely not!] are preventing your connection."

I don't know of course if IIS etc. is necessary for remote desktop; I have uninstalled the VMWare programs because I cannot understand what they are about.

Best wishes

Paul

by oh smeg

I've never used Remote Desktop in my life mainly because of the places where I work have requirements to use PC Anywhere a pay for product by Symantec so with supporting that I've never needed to use the M$ Option Symantec even gave me a Volume License Copy of PC Anywhere for my own personal Computers seems that doing Medical work does have some perks but they are not worth the trouble involved.

But I've never had much joy with anything supplied by M$ as a replacement for any Real Third Party Application. I can understand why people use Office by M$ because they pay an arm and Leg for it so it's got to be good but the new Word Perfect X4 which has PDF and the New Office Support beats Office 2007 hands down in my opinion as it just is capable of doing so much more that I don't even bother to open any M$ Office Applications. Even M$ seems to admit that Word Perfect is better as they gave me a Volume License of Office 2003 and 2007 more recently to try to get me to use their products. Seems that they just don't like me rubbing their noses in it and sending them replies to their offers in WPD Format. :D

Though with the new abilities of Word Perfect Office I may change my default File type to PDF as it's simply better. That should confuse then no end at least. But as you are not having any joy here with using Remote Desktop and this is taking way too long just using a decent KMV Switch will probably be the easiest solution here. I have used a lot of Belkin 2 station KMV Switches over the years without any problems though they are not my preferred option but in Doctors Surgeries where space is at a premium they work quite well. I use this one quite often because of it's design if that is of any help.

http://www.belkin.com/flip/

Col

by the 'g-man.'

This option neglects the networking part of the problem. See my post further down, same idea as you but add a small switch and a few config changes.

by var1016

Thanks again.

I may well resort to this; it really isn't terribly important in truth, I just wanted to make this connection thing work!

Best wishes

Paul

by the 'g-man.'

Buy a two Port KVM, hook up both machines to it.

But a cheap 1G Switch with say 4 ports on it.

Hook up both PC's and your Internet connection (modem, whatever) to the switch.

Assign 1 computer an IP in the same range as your intetnal Modems / Routers IP address
Subnet 255.255.255.0
Gateway is the Routers IP Address.

Assign Second Computer another (not same as above) IP in the same range as your intetnal Modems / Routers IP address.
Subnet 255.255.255.0
Gateway is the Routers IP Address

Edit the Hosts file on both systems to read:
(search for 'hosts' in the windows folder edit with notepad)

PC1's name Ip Address(as entered above)
PC2's name Ip Address(as entered above)

i.e pc1's name 10.0.0.1

Done.

by var1016

Well,

I cannot assign addresses, because if I change from "automatically detect settings", and assign addresses which was suggested earlier, then I have no Internet connection.

Paul

by the 'g-man.'

The addresses were an example, they have to be of the same subnet as your router. So if your routers internal IP was 10.0.0.1 you could use 10.0.0.2. 10.0.0.3 and so on.

The default gateway will be the routers internal IP so you may be missing the DNS settings needed for name resolution. Try these (from OPENDNS) -

208.67.222.222
208.67.220.220

EDIT - however if they are currently set to auto then there is some DHCP going on there. You may not need to enter anything on both systems as they will be given an IP address from the router,

by oh smeg

He could see the shares and so on above just that he couldn't get Remote Desktop to work for him.

So if that's still the case here a KMV Switch would do everything required.

Col

by var1016

Yes,

The network is fine: I have it working both ways.

As for remote desktop, I remain baffled. I have pinged the addresses both ways - no problem, it just refuses to connect.

Paul

by var1016

Thanks for this.

I don't actually have a router, just a modem from my ISP and a crossover cable.

Actually I have in front of me a letter from my ISP which says (rough translation) "to configure manually, use the following information" - two DNS addresses are given, plus a domain name and something called an SMTP server address.

It seems that my network cards have an address; is this correct?

Thanks

Paul

by oh smeg

The Internal Network Cards have an IP Address that is Unique to the computers that they are in and is the way that the Computers communicate with each other. They look for the IP Address for the other computer to send Data to or from and when accessing the Internet they look for the Modems IP Address.

The DNS stands for [b]Domain Name Service[/b] and in this case is the Domain of the ISP who you are connection to. They provide More than 1 DNS to allow for manual connection to their system.

http://tinyurl.com/9xptc

SMTP stands for [b]Simple Mail Transfer Protocol[/b] and is the service used to transfer E-Mail from your ISP to your local computer.

http://tinyurl.com/otkzt

The IP Address is the [b]Internet Protocol[/b] and as it's name suggests is used to connect to the Internet or internally between different computers on the same Local Area Network.

http://tinyurl.com/2xrl6

I hope that is useful to you.

Col

by thumbsup2

Something isn't adding up here Paul.

Ok, you have a modem from the ISP. How is the primary computer, let's call it CompA, connecting to that modem? Are you using USB here?

If you're using a CAT5 patch cable connecting CompA to the ISP's modem, then how are you connecting the two individual computers, ComA and ComB, in order to create the network? Do you have a 2nd network card in the main computer?

---

To answer your question above, yes each network card has an address. However, the details supplied by your ISP were related to configuring the modem manually. Don't confuse the two.

.

by Former member

http://www.radmin.com/
You will have to read the instructions, but to cut a long story short, the server part of the program goes onto the computer that you want to have access to, the viewer part of the program goes onto the main computer you will be sitting in front of. In the server part of the program, go into the settings part and put in any name where it says "User" and then put in a password. Then go to your main computer where you will be controlling from, and open up the icon and input the IP address of the other computer, then input the User name and password. you should be able to connect. Yes there is a charge but only if you want it, the trail is for 30 days.

Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

by var1016

Thank you Peconet, I might give this a go - as I wrote, the last one you sent did work but was very slow.

It is interesting isn't it? Windows offers so-called "Remote Desktop" in XP, which obviously doesn't work. If it did, a) it would work here and b) there wouldn't be VMWare, VNC, Radmin and so on would there!

I should think that if there is a Vista version of "Remote Desktop" it must truly be a pig's ear since XP is better in all other respects.

Roll on Midori??
Paul

by Former member

"Vista version of "Remote Desktop" it must truly be a pig's ear since XP is better in all other respects". I hear you on that one. . :)
Also since i have Xandros, Linux, i have found this remote desktop application, so you might want to try this one out as well, this one IS free to use though i have not tested it as yet but it seams similar to Radmin.
http://www.xandros.com/products/business/server/overview/xmc.html

Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

by var1016

Thanks for the link. I had already seen this and indeed worked through it step by step, sadly without the promised connection!

Tried again today - just the same

Best wishes

Paul

by var1016

OK chaps (and chapesses).

I have decided that there are two answers to my original post put up here in the heat of July. The answers are "Yes and No".

I am very pleased with "My Network Places" which works perfectly and is very useful.

As an ignoramus about networking, I have to say that I have no understanding whatever (despite all of your superb efforts and support) about why anything further than "My Network Places" is so horribly complex to achieve. So far only one system has worked (I have yet to attempt Radmin and it is true that virtualisation and VMWare are beyond my capacity to understand - at least without six months of study).

It is said that a fool can ask a question a wise man cannot answer, but I have to say that surely there is someone clever out there who can produce a simple way to do this?

I would call my second computer, say "Mephisto" and my first "Moustache". I would then say to Moustache, "please connect to Mephisto". Why is this so difficult? Of course if you are talking about millions of computers across the world, this is bound to be fraught with problems, but I am sorry to have to repeat: with two computers, two feet apart, joined with a bit of wire, it really should be easy - shouldn't it?

Thanks again to all,

Paul

by rob miners

the IP Address, type in the Name of the other PC EG: Mephisto

< add a bit >

You have setup Remote Access on both PC's and password protected them.

by var1016

Hello.

yes I have tried this, same result! Dialogue box goes dim for a moment then comes back up.

I now have passwords on both computers and have set up everything to do with remote desktop on both (as far as I know!).

Best wishes and thanks

Paul

by the 'g-man.'

but for some unknown reason remote desktop will not function for you. I use it all the time over many PC's and it is fine.

One can only assume you have configured the windows firewall as described in the help docs posted before and don't have another 3rd party application blocking access such as zone alarm or alike that has not been disclosed.

That and you really are running XP Pro (fully patched & updated on both systems) and not the home edition.

by var1016

Yes I have enabled remote in the Windows firewall on both computers.

I am not running any other firewall program.

I have Avast anti-virus and Spybot (with tea timer).

Both computers are running XP Pro SP2 on automatic update (I have a third computer that runs XP Home). Belarc advisor tells me all updates are there.

Thanks

Paul

by var1016

Hello and thanks yet again.

I have downloaded this, but not yet installed it - it looks again rather complicated - as you know I have enough trouble understanding what a computer is - servers are something else. For example, if I want to connect my two computers, which one is the "server"?

Sorry - it really is that basic around here!!

Best wishes

Paul

by Former member

This will be the one that you will be accessing (the remote computer), the main computer will be the one you sit in front of.
You put the "server" part onto the "remote" computer. You put the "View" part onto your main computer. It is a bit fiddly but it works well.

Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.