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Odd computer freezing/overheat issue

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by sudoka

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

Well, here is the strange thing, My computer has plenty of fans. Ten inch fan in the side, a fan on the mobo itself, a fan on teh back and a fan on the front. The issue is it's still overheating (I guess). It happens a lot more while I use Windows than when I use Ubuntu.
The other odd thing is that I don't see anything that would cause this. The case is an Enermax uber-chakra case. Now I'm not very familiar with cases but I assume the more holes the better?

Now what is your suggestion on this? Should I get a new case or is there something horribly wrong with ym computer?

I am not overclocking, and my heatsink is the default intel heatsink.
if you need specs I will be happy to provide some.

75 replies

by 93961

As far as I know a Ten inch fan may be too big for a computer.

by .martin.

I have a 9" fan on the top of my case (case came with it)

by rob miners

How long has this System been around. If it is ageing and you haven't applied new grease to the heatsink follow the instructions below.

Has the Power Supply Unit been replaced. A faulty PSU, and RAM can display these symptoms, so can a faulty CPU Fan. Try another PSU if you have one handy.

Check the memory.
You can test the memory by running Windows Memory Diagnostic that can be downloaded from http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp. If memory problems are found, try re-seating the RAM. If it doesn't work, replace the defective RAM.

Reseat the Central Processing Unit

Faulty Fans, Dust and Grime build up on the Heatsink restricting air flow. Remove the Power cable from the rear of the System and disconnect the Video cable. I would give the inside of the case a blowout with compressed air. When blowing air through the fans make sure that you physically stop them from spinning, as they may generate power and damage something. Use an Anti-Static Wrist Strap to ground yourself or by placing the back of your hand on the Power Supply Unit and not moving your feet. This will prevent electrostatic charge from building up and by not taking this precaution it is possible that you could inadvertantly cause damage to the PC from an electrostatic discharge.

Then remove the Heatsink, giving it a thorough clean and reseat the CPU applying new CPU grease. If the Fans spin freely when you give them a spin they are probably OK. If there is resistance replace them.

Clean the golden edge of each memory stick with a soft rubber/eraser, remembering not to touch the golden edge of the memory stick. Check with one stick at a time, remembering to disconnect the power from the PC as you replace them.

Also check the Capacitors around the CPU for swelling or bulging.

I think that the 10" fan is overkill

by sudoka

I'm currently about eighty miles from my desktop and it is powered off. I won't be able to do much until next week.

by rob miners

as it appears that this case, was supplied, without one. What is the Wattage of the PSU that you are currently using

by sudoka

Well it's a 750 watt PSU. The exhaust is about as warm as the exhaust from my graphics card. I can't really remember what the PSU make and model is though.

by oh smeg

But in how the air flows through the case. Ideally cold air should be drawn in the front and expelled out the back where it can rise away from the case and not get sucked back in.

The cooler the incoming Air the cooler the hot parts inside will remain.

If there are restrictions to a smooth Air Flow inside the case these need to be removed and a simple airflow needs to be setup. It is pointless having heaps of Fans in all different Panels if they are all pulling air in no matter where it is coming from and irrespective to how hot it is to begin with. Under the same conditions you do not want to create Dead Spots inside the case for Air Flow and you want to prevent hot air entering the case after it has passed through it.

So have the fans set to blow into the case on the front and out the back, Sides, Top everywhere else and house the case in a position where there is a free flow of air away from the case when it comes out.

It is absolutely pointless recirculating Hot Air into the case hoping that it will somehow cool things down. Just like your car if you constantly tailgate the car in front the Radiator can not suck in cool air but only preheated air which causes your engine and associated parts to run hotter than they otherwise would. Might be great for Cold Starts in Winter but once the engine is up to Operating Temp it is designed to run at that temp without much variation to give the best economy and performance that it was designed to give.

The same with computers you do not want hot air sucked in as the air needs to be cooler than the parts that it is supposed to cool. If you preheat the air things will get hotter than they should be.

Also you may need to plug extra holes in the case that allow Air Leaks to either exit or enter the case from unwanted areas. These include dirty air full of dust and other airborne crud as well as Hot Air.

If you live in a dusty environment you also need to regularly clean out the air intakes which can and do get blocked and cut down on the ability to cool the internal parts of the computer.

Col

Col

by slayer_

Have you run something like SpeedFan to check if you are overheating?

Freezing tends to be caused from bad CPU, bad PSU or bad RAM. A computer will (usually) auto shutdown if it overheats. As I recall, the average overheat temp of a CPU is between 90C and 120C

by jamesrl

Dust can get into your heatsink, fans and vents and defeat even the best designed case.

Get some canned air and clean the sucker out, then see if you still have problems.

You can often hear when a fan isn't operating correctly - so use your ears as well to see if a fan is running slow - could be dust, bearings etc.

James

by sudoka

I'm not overclocking, the ten inch fan came with the case, I guess nobody did a search on it. It's about 9 months old, I cleaned it about a month ago. Fans sound fine, mobo looks fine. It's the fact that it only does it while it's either idle, or used for a while. Most of the times it's dead when I game for about two hours straight. So I can't really tell what the heck it is. But thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure about the heat sink upgrade though.

by older mycroft

That enormous fan on the side panel of the case [b]HAS A FAN-DIRECTION SWITCH[/b].

Any chance the switch has been bumped and the ventilation is now going the wrong way?

by sudoka

Not sure which direction is right for the case to be painfully honest. Also the bottom of the fan is not directing a lot of air flow to my two graphics cards. Not sure if those are the ones causing the overheat.

by .martin.

sounds like there is something wrong with a piece of hardware in your computer.

try testing your RAM:
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

otherwise, see if you can borrow some parts, and swap parts over to see if you can eliminate the problem.

by sudoka

It shouldn't be the ram since it's relatively new. But I am thinking of getting more ram soon.

by slayer_

Overheating of the CPU is still possible.
Overheating of the GPU is still possible.
Bad power supply is still possible.
Bad RAM is still possible.
Bad CPU is still possible.
Bad Motherboard is still possible.

If I were to guess, I would say the most likely culprits are RAM, Power supply.
Bad ram will cause your system to hiccup and even BSOD or freeze up every time a bad place in memory is used to store something.

A bad power supply can short power your CPU causing it to shut itself off, effectively freezing your system.

I have a system that does something similar to yours, if I just leave it on, randomly I will come back to it and it's off, other times it has lasted weeks. Sometimes if I run a game on it, it will just shut down while I am using it. It is most likely the motherboard (The mobo has been replaced 3 times already in that machine) or the power supply, or both (Bad PSU could be damaging the boards).

I had another system that often froze up or crashed stuff (Especially web browsers). Turns out it was cause the Mobo was broken and it was stuck with a BIOS firmware that didn't understand the processor and wasn't giving it enough power. All BIOS flashing failed on it, so bad board. Took a long time to figure that out. (Its a funny story actually, but Linux people will hate the story).

On the same system, a few years later, the PSU apparently started to get weak, and started blowing up my video cards. When a video card goes, usually your system refuses to boot and just keeps restarting, or it will magically shutdown and reboot while your using it (Reminds me of a hellish time of my life involving iMacs).

So, can you please run a program like SpeedFan, and tell us the temperatures in your system. if you can, try and watch it while playing a game. Ideally a CPU should never exceed 70C, a GPU should never Exceed 80C. Most GPU's go critical at around 90C-120C

We can also use SpeedFan to monitor the voltages from your power supply. If your temperatures check out fine, then we will check the voltages next.

Direct Download
http://www.almico.com/speedfan439.exe

Website
http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php

by sudoka

Well it's been on for a while.
Here is the current temp readout after quite a while of idling.
Mobo = 37C
CPU = 34C
Core 1 = 51C
Core 2 = 48C
Core 3 = 51C
Core 4 = 51C
SPP = 47C
GPU1 GPU = 50 C
GPU1 Memory = 42C
GPU1 Ambient = 50C
GPU2 Diode = 54
HDD1 = 29C
HDD2 = 31C
HDD3 = 31C

Temps seem fine to me. Speedfan caused some issues for me though, Prior to switching to 7 My computer was bluescreening a lot. Since I had 7 I haven't bluescreened much, once it happened due to a program that I tried closing and I spam clicked all over. Forgot the program name though.

by snuffy09

try to run memtest and see what it finds

have you checked your system eventlogs? may be some tips in there. any bad blocks on HDs?

you proved you have enough fans to power a small air boat across the everglades, which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with overheating

by sudoka

Memtest86 and the microsoft mem test showed nothing wrong. Now what?

It happened again, I started up DragonAge,a nd a good 5 minutes into the game, and about 30 minutes prior to that of running random programs and such, and it froze. Became unresponsive and I had no choice but to do a hard reset. Any more insight?

by systemcheck

what is all in the computer ram, cpu, # of fans, gpu, psu, drives, hdd, everthing and the size?

by jamesrl

The usual configuration is that fans in the front of the case suck cool air in, and fans in the back push warm air out.

I've had graphics cards overheat, and my cards generally have shown symptoms before they reach the stage where the software that controls the cards shuts off the computer for protection. You would usually notice some pixellation, strange colour shift etc before a thermal shutdown from a video card.

James
James

by jamesrl

My card idles at about 50 degrees C, but when playing games it can hit 90, 95 is my shutdown point.

James

by slayer_

RAM is usually broken why you buy it. RAM usually doesn't break down UNLESS you overheat it at some point in it's life.

by slayer_

If your getting BSOD's, good chance it's bad RAM.

by sudoka

Ever since I had W7 I haven't bluescreened. So if it were bad RAM shouldn't it still bluescreen? I've also noticed a slight difference between room temperatures, the cooler, the longer it can run if I stat gaming. I'm gonna buy a fan for my graphics cards, maybe that's the culprit?
But I will take the RAM into consideration.

by seanferd

Sometimes bad RAM reveals itself in odd ways, not always with a BSOD, especially if it is in an area where the system isn't loaded. Perhaps, with the change of OS, the system is now loading in the malfuntioning area.

Tests are simple.
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
http://www.memtest.org/
http://www.memtest86.com/
Take your pick, or try more than one. Sometimes one will show an issue where another might not.

But it very well could be a heat issue. With all those fans running, there may be spots where the air actually circulates less, or isn't removed from the case. Sort of counter-intuitive, but a physical reality nonetheless.

by slayer_

Try leaving speedfan running and play a game for a bit, watch how hot it gets. Again, under 90C your fine, above 80C you will see performance degradation.

I know my Tecra Laptop would randomly BSOD after time, being used or not, because 1 of the two RAM chips was half dead. I ran that Gold memory test on Hirens (memtest refused to launch) and after it was running for about an hour it started to show about 10 bad blocks of memory over and over.
Essentially it would degrade when the ambient temperature increased. RAM is very sensitive to temperature. Overheat it once and it starts to degrade. And broken RAM can work just fine until the air around it warms up.
If your RAM is new, maybe you can get Warranty on it?

by oh smeg

To be timing issues between different Modules of Mismatched RAM.

All the RAM cam be perfect but if there is Modules from Different Makers/speeds this can cause issues when they are under load.

Col

by rob miners

has mention this in an earlier post, but are the RAM modules from the same manufacturer. Mismatched RAM can display the same symptoms.

by sudoka

The ram is from the same manufuncturer. So it would be I'll advised to get ram that's from a different manufuncturer as my extra horse power?

by rob miners

the modules are from the same maufacturer and it is the same type, all is good. Use the link that I provided to test the memory with. If it tests out OK try swapping slots. Also run the System with the side off so that you can see the CPU fan. Check it when it freezes to see if the fan is working.

by seanferd

Thing is, a quality PSU will work better. Also, that is the peak wattage, so if you can find out what the normal operating supply is, so much the better.

Then, you need to find out the wattage required by all your components. You should have a good margin between what is required, and what can be supplied.

by sudoka

Is there any way I can find out the power supplied and the power needed with a program?
And if it were the issue with the PSU being lower end, the computer should not turn on at all since it doesn't have the needed power. Right?

by slayer_

If for example, your video card switches to 3D mode, it will require more power. If you ran Vista on a pre low power 3D mode card, it would switch to performance 3D and use the maximum amount of power all the time (ouch).

Also, some PSU's, when they get warmer, like under load, they start to falter.

by systemcheck

is the cpu secured properly along with the cpu fan and heatsink.

then just out of curiousity when the computer, shuts down can you start it up right a way

by sudoka

Prior to my upgrades, I was running a 9600 GSO with 786M of ram in the card. Recently I got a suped up 260 gtx (The maxcore one form BFG with 896M of video ram). Even before I got the card it would do the same full system freeze.
When it freezes, the fans are still running,but there is no HDD activity.
My PSU, well, I can't really remember too much about it, but I'm pretty sure it's not exactly a high performance one, but it has 750W. That wattage calc told me I need a little bit less than 500W, but I'd still like to have overhead. I could consider getting a new PSU, since the exhaust temp is probably the same as my 260's.

by slayer_

Some cheap PSU's can only spike up to high voltages for short times, but will overheat if it stays high for too long. What brand is your PSU (In case you said it, can you repeat it, thanks)

by sudoka

Well here are my current system specs:
Core 2 Quad q9300
GPU:
Nvidia geForce 9600 GSO (by Fatal1ty with 768M ram)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 (Maxcore 55, by BFG Tech with 896M ram)
Fatal1ty RAM (2x2Gig sticks) DDR2-800 SDRAM
Evga nForce 750i SLI FTW edition
2x 500gig SATA HDD (One W7, other Ubuntu 9.1)
System is set to 64 bit (except my ubuntu partition)
The PSU is by silencer. 750W EPS 12V (not sure what that means but it's on there.)

by sudoka

The 9600 was the basic first card I had. Then I took it out and replaced it with the 260.
For a while I ran with the 260 only, Then i decided to pop back the 9600 to give my computer a dedicated physx card. I do however want to remove the 9600 completely and buy another 260 to sli it.
(Well when I have the funds for it, so probably after my birthday tomorrow).

by sudoka

And I thought my case and my fan fetish was was bad. That's a freaking jet engine. Is it as loud as it looks like?

by mamies

The fans on the outside of the case don't make that much noise at all. The noise mainly comes from the 2 8800 GTs that sit on the motherboard. If they arnt their its nice and quiet.

Thanks,

by sudoka

As it seems, this issue is not only when I play games. A moment ago, as I was installing MW2 (which used up a suspicious 96% ram and all of my first core, the computer has again frozen.
I'm not sure if this indicates anything terribly new, but it could be helpful information.

by systemcheck

can you get us a screen shot of your processes when its idle

by sudoka

Here is the link to my PSU.
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-750-quad-black.html

* 750W Continuous @ 40C (825W Peak)
* Up to 90% (10dB) Less Noise per Watt
* NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX)
* 80+ Certified (83%); .99 Active PFC
* +12VDC @ 60A (Powerful Single Rail)
* Rock-Solid, Super-Clean DC Output
* 20/24-pin, 8-pin*, 4-pin M/B Connectors
* Quad PCI-E and 17 Drive Connectors
* Automatic Fan Speed Control Circuit
* 5-Year Warranty and Tech Support

by slayer_

I may have missed this earlier. Did you say the freezing happened with your 9600? I ask because I have... frequently, gotten Dud cards from nVidia. I'd say 3 out of 5 times the card has worked out of the box for me.

by systemcheck

uninstall firefox (seems way too high for a browser) then reinstall and then go to

http://www.technibble.com/how-to-fix-svchost-using-100-cpu-memory-leak/

and follow instructions, then go to start, programs, accessories, system tools (assumning for W7), disk clean up (select everything) and clean up. then if have not done so yet scan for virus, malware, and spyware. when complete test and get back to me.

and get rid of that teatime.exe (believe its for spybot) its a hog

by sudoka

Svchost isn't using much of the processor. As for firefox, I have a few tabs open and set to above normal priority. The screen shot was showing all processes from all users. Not just mine. Yes, teatimer is for spybot, I need to get rid of it somehow.

by slayer_

But I recommend leaving it on. it provides good solid last line of defense protection and helps keep viruses and the like spreading to deeply into your system.

It uses lots of RAM, based on your registry size but it does not cost performance.

by jamesrl

The 260 certainly puts out more heat than the 9600, it may be enough when you combine the both to raise the internal temp to a level where things fail.

Can you try taking the 9600 out and try to replicate the scenarios where it causes problems?

James

by sudoka

Yes, it happened with the 9600. Do you think I should remove it again and try to see what happens?
Also if it were the gpu shouldn't it notify me somehow, by either lag in game or something of the sort? Also, do you think I should get a 260 or a higher version gpu as my primary?
Like should I SLI or should I just use my 260 as a physx card and buy a higher end card?

by sudoka

I'll try that after I have my next class. If that is the cause of the problems I assume adding in a new GPU that's higher end would be stupid without adding in a pci fan?

by systemcheck

id get it a shot, seems liek your running out of options, everyone been helping you since november 18, someone should of came up with something, even try putting the 260 in the same spot as the 9600 if havent already

by slayer_

As I understand PhysX, it has to run on the card producing the graphics. But anyways. It is possible that your 9600 could be damaged. Would be easy to tell if you run your 260 as your primary.

I personally run an Stock OC'd 9600, I can OC the snot out of it without issue EXCEPT in one game, that if it is even slightly OC'd (Beyond the stock OC), it falters and hangs and graphic corrupts randomly. I can actually only play Mass Effect on it when its OC'd. I am not entirely certain if 9600's are a particularly well manufactured card.

Fortunately that 260 you have is nearly twice the power potential than a 9600, so who cares right :).

by sudoka

Long story short mirror's edge won't run very well on my 260 if I use physx. The thing is, even with that 9600 as the dedicated physx, it still won't run in physx.The logic would be that I don't want to strain the 260 with overclocking.

by slayer_

The 9600 runs significantly hotter than a 260. A 9600 vents into the case while a 260 takes air and blows it over the card, out the back of the case. Theoretically, there shouldn't be any heat build up in the case from them. Of course, the 9600 could be heating up the space around the 260 and causing it to falter. But his GPU temperatures were really low.

Edited, Cord = card :)

by jamesrl

Wonder what the other is.

The 260 GPU certainly generates more heat. You are correct it vents to the outside, but its also sucking air from inside the case, so there are limits.

And you are correct, position can play a factor as well, I had a card in the slot next to my 2 slot Vid card and it blocked the flow of air to the fan and overheated constantly.

James

by slayer_

Isn't the latest drivers to fix that game?
I remember seeing that game in their listing of performance boosts. Are you sure you are using the most recent drivers? Maybe try the beta drivers. PhysX doesn't really strain your card at all. That's the point :).

I also agree that you shouldn't overclock, most safe overclocks will buy you, maybe 10-30fps on the top end, and 1 or 2 FPS on the bottom end.

Thats like, if your getting 200fps, OC'd you'd get 230, but if your getting 10fps, you might get 11 when OC'd. It's not worth it. You almost have more effect OC'ing your CPU.

I read some reviews, looks like nVidia cards have lots of trouble with that game. That's pretty stupid lol

by sudoka

Also, I've played a good solid hour of MW2, and the computer froze. Then i booted it back up, kept tabs on the temps, and max temp on the GPU was 70. But on my processor, core 1 was 61, core 2, 57, core3, 61, core 4 58. GOU mem was 62 and gpu ambient was 54. As for the mobo, well 41.
Soo I'm not sure if it's good or not, but yeah. That's pretty much what I spiked to.

As for mirror's edge. It's working fine until I get to a part where there is a lot of debris. IE glass smashing and shards flying all over. That's when I get about 3fps.

But so far I took out the 9600 see how it fairs.

Also I noticed that i froze when I had the resolution of MW2 up at 1600x900. Lowered the rez and then I got a good 3 hours of solid game play. I did get some lag though, but only short spikes randomly.

by slayer_

Ideally, you don't want to go over 60C with your CPU. But it's not serious, I believe shutdown temp for CPU is 90C. As for particles, the 260 has fewer CPU's than the 280. Thats why the sudden performance drop in those scenarios. Also, some programs piss off games and physx, such as Xfire and Steam overlays. Even the RivaTuner overlay can cause problems.

Perhaps we should get you to download nTune and do stress tests. Or download the 3D Burn test, which makes all your hardware run at peak for a long time, making it very hot to test your cooling.

by sudoka

My 260 has more cores than a standard 260. BFG Tech 260 Maxcore 55.
Also nTune just bluescreened me..

Actually it's the nvidia monitor thing. I'm running the 10 minute stress test now.
Well, I'm getting bluescreens. Something about nvoclk64.sys.

by slayer_

If you are using the latest version, try using the version that came on your CD with the graphics card.

To downgrade drivers, you need to uninstall them, I am pretty sure the nVidia installer has an uninstaller somewhere. nVidia installers keep the files off the root of your C drive.

mine for example are here.

C:\NVIDIA\WinXP\180.48
C:\NVIDIA\WinXP\181.22
C:\NVIDIA\WinXP\182.08
C:\NVIDIA\WinXP\182.50
C:\NVIDIA\WinXP\185.85

Try different versions of the drivers. BSOD's are almost always about bad drivers or bad memory.

Also don't fall for the sales hype. There are 2 official versions of the 260. One has 2 processing sectors removed, the other only has 1 removed. The original had 192 cores, version 2 had 216 cores in order to compete better with the 4800-series such as ATI?s HD 4870.

by sudoka

Well after switching to 32 bit I didn't overheat after an intense gaming sessions.

Actually the switch from 64 to 32 bit fixed almost all my problems.

by snuffy09

you could have a fan going bad on your graphics card (1 of them)

or the whole graphics card could be "defective" if its producing more heat than it should.

there are many softwares to monitor heat and fanspeeds. i dont use anything fancy so others may be able to suggest something

I use SIW (system info for windows) you can use this program to poll massive amounts of data about your computer including temps... i check my temps before gaming and then right after you exit your game and compare. you can watch your numbers down as your temps drop which is kinda cool.

by systemcheck

what type of video card do you have cause do you have all possible molex connected to the video card up to two, i had that problem before but i didnt have all power connected to the card

by davethedude

Download PC Check latest version, burn to image and run the tests to verify if you have a bad CPU. You can also get Hirens Boot CD to run your diagnostic.

by sudoka

I'm running 32bit so it's now working just fine.

by sudoka

GTX 260 it's hooked up properly, the temps are fine. When the gcard overheats there are symptoms that I will notice. And after playing mass effect on max for over 10 hours straight, with no overheat it means it's fine.

by rschooley

Sudoka, I know this is a way old thread, but I just built a new system (triple core AMD with 4 gigs of ddr3 ram, etc.) but I had a copy of xp 64 bit that was unused so I decided to try it. I have had trouble with random freezes too but all the HW checks out ok and temps are in like the 20's so super low,well high 30's under load, but I am wondering if it is an xp thing. I'd like the 64 bit, but I don't want to drop $150 on windows 7. I have a 32 bit version of xp that I can get by on for now, but I just wondered when you went back to 32 bit was that xp and was there any performance difference? Was the 64 bit windows you were using xp also? I think that may be the problem but I just wanted to see if it was xp that you were running. Thanks for any replies and again, sorry for resurecting an old thread.

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