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Time to stand up to Microsoft

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by qomputek 1 view

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

I am curious about everyones opinion to this article:

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2815189,00.html

I am not familure with XP but I have to admit from what I've read about it, it realy scares the heck out of me. Check this qoute taken from the article, "Of course, once .Net is in place MS will potentially have the tools to turn off your software at a moment's notice."

And check this out:

http://www.pconline.com/~meany/images/busted3.jpg

I would love to see XP in action but I don't think I like the idea anymore.

Is this hype or fact?

36 replies

by unix_magic

Hey friend,
Accepting M$'s whims and manipulations is like giving in to a dictator's authority.
Like the OpenSource Community, stand up and face the tyrant with your head held up high.
Be a proud geek, and accept the non-imperialistic freedom ofLinux and/or any flavor of Unix.

by epepke

Folks, the time to find alternatives to Microsoft was 5 years ago, when it was entirely obvious where they were heading, and also when there was a healthy set of possible alternatives. Maybe by now the Commodore Amiga would be used in most Fortune 500 companies. But people didn't, and it isn't.

I've been on this board since about the beginning of the year, and all along people have been saying, "Gosh, I don't like what XP is going to do. Maybe it's time to maybe start kinda thinking aboutpossibly exploring alternatives."

All along, I've been pointing out that people are complaining and not doing anything. All along, people have been telling me that something is just going to happen to fix it: the press, public outcry, the DOJ. And it hasn't happened, and I doubt that it will.

Sure, there are Linux advocates, but there are hardly any more of them than there were. Almost everybody is waiting around for Linux to "get better," which means expecting somebody ELSE to make itall better. It isn't going to get better magically out of the ether--people need to do it. Most people are really long on gripe and short on effort.

Sure it scares you, and you don't like it, but you're probably going to go along with it. It'll be easier in the short term, or you will be afraid of having to retrain the users, or everybody's used to Microsoft, or it isn't so bad as you've thought, or you'll compromise if Microsoft just backs off a bit, etc., and you'll tell yourself it's aSound Business Decision.

by epepke

Meanwhile, Microsoft, who has people capable of looking further into the future than the end of the quarter, will nibble more and more away, and their legal/moralistic campaign against the very idea of Open Source will gain ground.

In five years you'll be griping as much as you are now yet doing as little about is as you did five years ago, surrounded by kids who don't even remember when it was any different. By then, draconian snooping on your computer will be considered just the way things are, and people will be griping and doing nothing about something else. Biometrics, maybe. Criminal record checks to get a licence even to buy a word processor.

Go ahead. Insist that I'm wrong. Five years from now, you won't remember what I wrote today anyway.

by admin

"Of course, once .Net is in place MS will potentially have the tools to turn off your software at a moment's notice" and it's also true in your cable/satellite box and people still seem to buy tons of them.

by radiic

How long till you think somebody hacks the code for XP and devises a way to bypass the registration feature...Hmmmn done

by qomputek

that they will be able to know (if you're connect to the Internet) that you have a hacked system. and if they don't like it they can shut you down, thats not cool. I know the only way I'm getting XP is if its a copy, I sure as hell am not paying for that crap.

by admin

and there is "the game" as it's referred to in the dish world..... anyone wonder why guys still buy 486's at yard sales?

by radiic

that wont allow your pc to make outgoing request's unless you allow it. I agree I wont be switching to that crap either.

by admin

Seems like it would be better to send erroneous marketing information than none at all.......

Lesse.... a filtering program on a disposable box sending erroneous data.....

hmmmmmmm.......

by pepeledog

Good luck. Many, many years ago there was a saying (probably before your times) - Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Now, the same is true for M$. It may not work as well as other software; it may not be quite as secure as other software; itmay not have the features of other software - but it IS Microsoft.

by sujai.nath

It is precisely this attitude that M$ capitalizes on. It is truly a marketing marvel that they have established this mindset to the point of brainwashing. Fortunately, a number of people can see through their mesmerized haze, and realize they dontlike where they are going (not just today but tomorrow). Unfortunately, only a very small number of those (as epepke so astutely pointed out) will actually do anything proactive or even reactive about it. I myself have already jumped ship from thequickly sinking M$ boat of doom. I tried helping others off but most seem to content to go down with the ship. This is the kind of foolhardy loyalty that other companies dream about.

by qomputek

So you have no problem with microsoft eavesdropping on you, checking what you have installed on your system, and if they are not satisfied then can turn you off? You're telling me you're fine with that?

by pepeledog

I DO have a problem with it M$ eavesdropping. I will not buy into XP no matter what. I think it is monstrous what M$ has been allowed to do with the market. The point I tried to make is that the broad problem lies with the business community (especially big business). They blindly accept M$ in the workplace; they blindly believe in M$ progaganda about reducing TCO; they blindly believe in M$. I think this happens for the reason I stated before. Like sheep to the slaughter, they can't go wrong if they buy M$ because everyone else has it. As long a Big Busines$ standardizes on M$ the problem will continue, much to the detriment of the Internet, software development and competition.

by csmith

The question is not if they will buy Microsoft.
The question is will they buy anything, in the current business climate.
From what I have seen, upgrading to XP is quite a challenge for the IT department.
When the sales are off, earnings are dropping over 20%, how do you justify the expense of an upgrade?
Where is the productivity increase, when there are so many competing needs for cash?
Regards, Chris

by zen37

Unfortunately, the problem is bigger than we think.

Companies would like to look for alternatives to windows, but it's not just an alternative OS you have to look for. How many applications do you have, that are not made by Microsoft, that only work on NT? How many more are being developed right now to use AD? Those won't work with NDS. Why not? Because there aren't enough people using NDS.

So not only do you have to reload all your workstations and servers with a new OS, but you have to change most if not all of your company's applications.

Can you justify the Millions of dollars it would take to make such a switch? Can you justify retraining absolutely every single person using a computer in your company, not just your ITdepartment?

Of course not, it's a lot cheaper to stay as is and pay the mighty dragon what it wants. The question I ask is, will all that money be enough to get it off our back permanently?
I doubt it very much.

I work in Telecom and fortunately; I can do my job with either Windows of Linux or whatever. But that's not the case for most of us, and almost all of out customers out there.

One thing is for sure, if you want to do something, it's now or never.

Good luck.

by epepke

You will pay the millions of dollars anyway, probably even more millions of dollars.

The benefit is that you can pretend that you don't know you will have to pay the millions of dollars, and when you do, you will be able to say that it isn't yourfault.

People will pay dearly for the privilege of pointing to someone else holding the roto-plooker, even if it's a much bigger roto-plooker.

by radiic

Our whole conversation has been about our workplace. Yea as a netadmin I have to purchase all these damn CAL's for all my users.

What about the HOME arena. How many millions of pc's have shipped from Dell,Compaq,Hp,Gateway,and all the others with M$ software PRELOADED. HOW dare they assume that all those over 40 crowd that have flocked to stores in the past 5 years would want M$ on there pc. What would have happened if they all shipped with a certain distro of *nix. My mom would she have called me more or less to still work on her pc and show her what to do>?>?>?

IMO> I believe M$ took advantage of a whole generation of people that didnt know better. They also took advantage of the Developers too by getting them in their hip pocket to write programs that would only work on the next big new OS that M$ was producing at the time. What do you think would happen to XP if all the development shops around the country refused to write programms to run on that OS.

I dont know about you but I feel like we should parade Nancy Regan around on a big Penquin float that said "JUST SAY NO TO M$"

by saramiller

Ill tell you that I am the official computer geek. Anything you dont know, I do. And I know that this is all just a hype. XP will go in action...just not yet. No one kows when it will except for Bill Gates and I have my hunches...a:LSJBf;...sorry that was a little spaz.

by pandadude

>>the official computer geek...Anything you dont know, I do......<<
What's all these crap ???

by bmcusa

Noone has asked, what I feel is the most important question. What about our Consitutional rights to porivacy? We wouldn't stand still for the government eavesdropping and/or shutting down our computers, and the Courts wouldn't let them. Yet MN$ seems to thing it is above the government, above the people, and exempt from the very legal system thet allows them to flurish. Dissatisfied stockholder.

by epepke

Really? Just watch how Carnivore metastasizes in the coming bad times.

As far as the use of corporations to get around that pesky Constitution, that's been going on a long time, under four separate administrations, since the days when Microsoft was actually a boon and played fair. You know how most companies make you urinate into a bottle these days?

by bobm

It seems that in this time of "terror" within the US and globally, we have two fronts of attack and not one as we all assume. M$ are the other "Terror organization". Both organizations are run on similar policies. Global domination by force!

See article --> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2815189,00%20.html

Yet again, we are being held to ransom (with the new XP OS) which is not a good idea especially in this time. If IBM made an operating system like WIN 3.1 to XP etc that is full of bugs, and remain full of bugs, IBM would have been out of business years ago. Long live IBM.

Let's hope that M$ will wake up when very few people invest in XP. I was duped into purchasing ME which was a steaming pile of pooh! get moneyback, no way!

Big corporations MUST look at other alternatives like Unix/Linux operating system/s. Now is perfect the opportunity to look into alternatives. If companies are going to invest time and money again for all the upgrades, rather spend those resources on a REAL OS. This idea of radical changes to the OS every release MUST STOP NOW! IBM have managed to remain consistant for 30 years in the MF OS environment with major releases. Why can't M$ do the same. Shame on you M$. It's up to the people now to speak up. And speak up we will.

Remember Unix has been around for almost 40 years, M$ around 20, and still have not matured!

Remember, "WE THE PEOPLE" put you where you are today and made you what you are, now you turn on us. Shame on you. We made you, we will break you.. Remember that.

I recommend that all corporations bouycott this new OS. We have the power to do that. Lets unite and give M$ a run for their money. All we are doing is purchasing a box full of bugs again. Long live BSD! Now big daddy is watching. Not Good! What ever happened to the constitution freedom of speech etc.

by admin

MS does not train terrorist operatives to injure, kill and maim other human beings.

by qomputek

This is what I see. They will eventually realize that what they are trying won't fly. They will tone it down a bit but just enough to satisfy the despret users. Then they will do the usual bait and switch and when its too late, you're hooked in.
Three reason I think M$ will get away with it:

1)I don't think Microsoft will crumble (unfortunetly). I've been to "Best Buy" recently and the only OS they sell computers with is either XP or 2000, not even 98 anymore. If you're a consumer you have no choice and you're not even made aware you have one.

2) I looked at a half empty shelf with XP boxes that were EMPTY. For $10 dollars you get to buy and empty box of Windows XP and people where buying it. An empty box just to garantee they will have a copy on release date. What are they worried about that they will all be gone? Its note there fault, they don't know any better, and M$ knows that. Its sad but true, Microsoft will get away with this, as much as I hate to see it.3)If you're a gamer you realy have no choice.

by raytucker

Unfortunately, 90% of the planet runs microsoft software. On a corporate level, it would be too much to have to retrain all their employees on a different platform. it's actually more cost effictive to just go with the upgrade.

Microsoft knows that also, thats why they are doing what they are. Blackcomb, will be here in a few years, its only going to get worse in the future.

I know that my company, will only go with 64 bit-XP for their power users and graphics departments. We just finished upgrading to 2K, it will be a while before anymore upgrades are performed. I feel that XP will only greatly effect home users, due to the fact that most corporations have went to great lenghts to ensure all their software is licensed. Most peole dont know it but, 2K is already capable of monitoring licensing(Terminal Services) for network applications, XP just incorporated what was already there for the home users. I can remember a few years ago, when the pentium III's were coming out with an embedded program on the chip, that would scan the machine and send the information virtually anywhere, so the manufacturers had to ship the machines with that feature turned off.

This technology has always been there, just now its starting to become a public reality. unfortunately, privacy is becoming a thing of the past, if you want to aviod it, I would suggest staying with 2K,ME,98 and 95.

by admin

does anyone know if Samba use is directly being monitored? If you have technical proof, please share. :>

by bunga

another opinion

1) Couldnt this be seen as a downfall of the marketing dept's of other OS's??

2) Is this a dirty trick played by a shop or Microsoft?

3) How about Commodore 64? I still think its the best game platform around. (just need to find the programmers)

Like to here your thoughts

Bunga

by raytucker

Finally, someone is looking in the right direction, you cant be any more right. The majority always wins, its the corporations that dont want to loose money. Microsoft, has re-engineered their license agreements giving big business, breaks on upgrade costs. IE..if you upgrade now it will cost less, than waiting until later at full price.Also,they are also dropping support of older products, threatening to not release any more updates. of course they will upgrade, forcing the rest of us to also do the same.

Good Call

by pandadude

to increase revenue...
There is an ancient Chinese saying:
"The "Good" goes one yard while the "Evil"
goes one mile....".
Whatever M$ puts up will be defeated. That's just the nature of things.

by angtek

Bill Gates once said he didnt want to control information, Only the way it transferred. He has done that. And it all started with DOS and IBM. IBM put him on the path he is on today.

But you cant blame him! He is a smart business man.

1)Usersof all technology push for ease and compatibility.

2)If you want to change things talk to gamers. They are the people who force technology. Do you know of ANY other OS that allows a gamer to play?

3)Security is not a new issues. Every programhas a backdoor. If a person wants to gain access to anything bad enough they can. Look at Instant Messangers, the .net that they all use make them vunerable. Every IM message can be read. Go back and look at the issues with ICQ. The only true way tokeep a system secure is to not connect to anything.

by admin

Linux, Atari DOS, & beOS are some OS's I play games on.

Then there are the OS's on palms, playstations, Nintendos, Dreamcast's, Commodores, Macintoshes and hordes of other OS's.

by bunga

My Opinion

If you dont like microsoft products (or any of their busness beliefs) why choose to use their products? Its your choice!!

Cheers
Bunga

by daniel o. escasa

Not entirely. Most of the rest of the world is on one of Microsoft's sorry excuses of an OS. The company or individual that doesn't increasingly find themselves isolated from the rest of the world. For instance, you can choose Linux or xBSD plus Star Office 5.latest, which can still read Office 2000 files as far as I can tell. Wait till Office XP proliferates, with its "buggy" filters that have trouble saving in , e.g., Word 97 format. True, there *is* a choice, the consequences of the choice being an impaired ability to connect with the rest of the world.

Regards

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