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by mpd881

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I am really itching to buy a new computer, but am on a tight budget. I currently am trying to game with a used computer I bought at auction (not a bad rig, it's 2.8 GHz, 1 GB RAM and GEForce 5500 vid card). It just isn't cutting it, tho. I was looking at Dell and found a system with a processor option of either an Pentium? D Processor 915 or a Pentium? D Processor 820. I thought I looked everywhere to find the difference, but couldn't. Should I spend the extra $65 for the 915? Is it worth it? I plan on getting a better graphics card and about 2GB of RAM.

Also, is gaming with Windows Media Center Edition ok? I've never tried it before.

Thanks

32 replies

by jamesrl

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.

Before you spend money on new, try upgrading the video card - yours is two generations old. You can even go to ebay and find something.

Something like : http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2201323&CatId=318

For the games I play, its first, video card, second RAM and third CPU.

In what applications is it not cutting it? I would bet there are lots of IT pros on here using something less powerful.

As for the difference between Pentiums, confusing isn't it. Try tomshardware.com or anandtech.com

James
James

by deadly ernest

card. Invest your money in a much better graphics card with a better Graphics Processor Unit, and special effects chips, and lots of on board RAM - go with PCI-E if the system will take it, then AGP is it will take that. If the board doesn't use either, you may want to add PCI-E capable motherboard to the shopping list. I'd also get some more RAM. The CPU is more than good enough.

Oh and depending upon the game, think about your Internet connection quality, so many now depend upon good broadband access.

I never by DELL, later upgrades and spares are a real bugger with them and their like - HP, IBM, etc.

by ovidtchr

The difference is that I keep upgrading the graphics card. You can usually pick up a card with a 6-12 month old chipset and lots of VRAM for around $100 new. Bumping the system to 2GB won't hurt either. Having a faster CPU seems to speed up load times for games and levels/maps, but other than that I haven't noticed any real playability improvements between my various systems... the GPU seems to be the key for the most part, not the CPU.

by leoboeye

in gaming the videocard requirements are inescapable, however, the other hardware upgrades, you should be able to postpone for another year or so. I use a trimmed down version of win xp pro sp1 that will run smoothly with about 15 processes, the install cd is around 120 mb. there's no point in handing over a big chunk of your system resources to an operating system that should do nothing more than enabling you to run the software you choose with as little interference as possible. even if you are weary of adapting a specific media oriented os to the completely different needs of a gamer, you could consider the option of a dual boot with a minimal system. with your system's specs, it should about double the perceived speed of gaming.

by dr_zinj

I run EQ2 on both W2K and XP and both OSes (and additional applications) run a buttload of processes extraneous to the game itself.

You basically just need the minimal OS, the game, and the firewall to be operating. Clean out everything in the taskbar that you don't need, then do the ctrl-alt-del bit and clean out all the other processes you don't need from there. Finally, go into administration, services, and clean out everything not needing in there.

Bear in mind, that some of this may include a bit of trial and error to determine what you need to run the game. Once you know what you don't need, then tailor a boot for only those things.

Oh, one last note, never, Never, NEVER try to use your system for anything else while in that game state, especially internet surfing - you'll suck down a virus or zombie your system so fast you head won't even have time to spin.

by 2ktech

Here's something that businesses and used computer buyers miss like gangbusters. Almost all low and medium range computers sold have low RPM drives. Laptops usually 4200 rpm and desktops 5400 RPM. When you throw those out and buy a 7500RPM drive the difference is staggering. Pcs that we've been ready to throw out work like gangbusters with 7500RPM drives. We've saved thousands of dollars here by simply upgrading hard drives instead of buying whole new PCs (that would most likely have had 5400 rpm drives!). Even if you have tons of ram to run your games on, WINDOWS still runs off the hard drive and slows you down. So make sure you have a good hard drive as well as video.

by marketingtutor.

I run a Pentium D 960 with 4GB RAM with a nVidia 7950GX2, and while it is certainly the case that CPU does help out, there is nothing that will make the difference more in your games than upgrading to a good high-end graphics card.

But it doesn't end there. I have 8 - 150GB Western Digital Raptors hooked up to a 3ware 9550SX-8ML RAID controller, and let me tell you, hard disk makes a world of difference! Hard drives don't make a whole lot of difference in the actual game play, but it makes a HUGE difference for game load times. For gameplay speed, upgrade that 5500 GPU to something newer!!!

Others that use similar video cards with but with a Core 2 duo CPU have wondered at times why my system just feels snappier and more responsive. Hard drives it is.

So with this guy's current configuration, I would most certainly recommend first a good video card and secondly a good fast hard drive setup.

But I would say your biggest bang for the buck would be to put as much cashola as you can afford into a new video card. Just be sure, like DE mentioned, that your motherboard can handle the new video card. If not, start saving now, and get it all together. One benefit of saving money to buy it all at once, is that the longer you save, the more the prices drop on your target upgrade. So taking the time to save up will just get you better hardware at a better price, with less fun while you wait ;-)

by goofytek

it should hit 300 plus figures if not
Graphics Card is first
I used ATI 8x AGP 9200 for over 300 score,
of course my XP pro is tweaked heavily as original Default install is slower than 98SE
http://www.mdgx.com/ Tweaking website
lots of tips etc on all Windows Systems
my colleague uses P4 at 2800 like you it hits 320 score, mine is AMD 2400+ CPU,
CachemanXP is settings Auto Tweaker
if all used Performance Test 4.0 then results can be compared,
bye Retired Techie Keith

by mpd881

It sounds like the general consensus is that I don't really need to get a new system right now (which is fine by me). I will look into getting a new hard drive, but had a questions on the vid card. My motherboard will only accept an AGP card. Is it worth spending $150 or so on an AGP upgrade or is this type not worth it?

by codylc

It all comes down to how much money you can put towards the system. If you can wait and get anywhere from $700-$1000, you can put together a great gaming system.

Now don't get me wrong, you can build a system for around $300, but I can't see that it would be worth doing.

I'm kinda in the same boat you're in with AGP. It's really not that bad still and if you get a good enough card, you can still have a killer system.

I know a guy up there posted a card from tigerdirect which is a great place to look. I also like newegg.com due to their reliable delivery, great service, and reviews from other customers. Here are some cards I would look at getting:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130051

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606

I would save and get the first one, but they'll all make quite a difference in your system.

Hope this helps!

by goofytek

this should be first item to change Recommend
ATI 9200 are reasonable priced $70
WDC 80GB Hard drive $58 also reasonable
its 7200rpm ATA 100 speed reads at 60k
using HDTACH, install & run HDTACH on your
Drive ?? Ow much below 60 read is it ??
that will inform you Speed difference existing Drive against New WDC
to see if its worth changing
Passmark Performance test helps us all see
by imoroved figures, changes can make,
bye Keith

by chris69gto

Depending on the games you are playing is depending on what you need.
Games like BF2 are resource hogs, so it wants lots of everything.
But until you have the money to buy a custom rig (not dell, hp, ibm, compaq, you get the idea.)
First for AGP cards buy an ATI card 8500le is a kick butt card (destroys a 5500 with ease), a 9600, 9800 are a little more money, but probably better performance.
Look for a 7200 RPM HDD w/8mb cache, and more ram always helps.

by mpd881

I am seeing a bunch of 512 MB vid cards out there. Is this too much for what my system is capable of? Or should I think about going for the gusto and get one. I don't see much of a price difference between the 256 and the 512.

by adam s

When it comes to RAM, more is always better, whether it is for you system or your video card. Don't consider how much you need NOW. You WILL need more eventually. Don't worry about the "extra" RAM going unused-- game designers will fix that for you soon enough. If there isn't much of a price difference, then get more. The decision may stay off a future upgrade for a few months or more. I hope this helps.

by jamesrl

And I have stated in other threads, if it was a question between a card with a faster GPU and 256 MB of video ram, or a slower GPU and 512 MB of video ram, I would take the one with the faster processor.

I've owned a 512 MB card and didn't see any real improvement over a similar card with 256. I wouldnt spend money on a new card without 256 though - thats the current sweet spot.

Having said that, it could all be different under Vista, which has a complex gui.

James

by krau7777

leoboeye,

Is your trimmed down copy of XP available or details on how to trim?

Thanks.

by leoboeye

I use n-lite to trim big parts of it, you have to experiment a bit to find out settings for your specific needs. I usually make an n-lite installation-cd that consists of winxp pro sp1, the most recent windows installer, dotnet 1.1 + security update + dotnet 2.05 slipstreamed through n-lite. install on a primary partition of about 10 gyg, trim all obsolete files (backups from windows drivers etc, .msi installers...), all sorts of files you never would need if you were to use the system but once...and you do...now create a data partition and right-drag folders like my documents, desktop and favorites from your user documents and settings here. take an image of the system disk wich you can use at the start of any fresh install..it will remember where your documents, favorites etc are. with this "master image" you can create configurations for every imaginable purpose and switch between the images you make of those at will (you may even experiment with moving the program files directory to it's own partition, a separate partition for games is also an option). in this case, don't forget to backup stuff like application data so you can still use the same basic system with each different configuration...it is somewhat more complicated than it sounds, but you get the drift...your system drive stays clean and you need not overly worry about security either, in case of infection, just slam the basic image over your system partition in five minutes flat instead of scanning and worrying for hours. other intruders may find the actual user data are a little less accessible than they are used to. I just watch my system disk for unwelcome visitors with sysmon from sysinternals instead of a firewall that tends to attract the visitors it is supposed to stop at the gates, and have avg-free, spybot, spywareblaster and adaware keep the most obvious stuff out. every night my taskmanager is told to restore my system from the image at shutdown. it works, even though I now spend more hours with my system than before, it is improving instead of an endless repetition of the same probs that occur with a standard install.

by now left tr

"spybot, spywareblaster and adaware keep the most obvious stuff out. every night my taskmanager is told to restore my system from the image at shutdown"

If so then why bother with spybot, spywareblaster and adaware?

by adam.ainsworth

Surely someone who is classed as Technical / PC Support should have thought to try Google first? There are dozens of sites devoted gaming and the machines required for them, with articles on upgrading and troubleshooting.

Sorry - I'm not try to start a flame war here but half of the problems I deal with at work can be solved by the end user if the just spent five mins working out the problem and searching for the solution.

by codylc

Cause if people started searching their problems before calling me, I'd be out of a job! =D

by mpd881

Of course I have searched Google. I have spent a ton of time on it. However, I find that most of the time the reviews by "users" on those sites are worthless as they are by people who don't know what they are talking about or by someone with a gripe against a particular vendor. The reviews by the sites are good, but are just one opinion. So I decided to post here in hopes that people who I have come to appreciate their input would be able to give me their ideas. I'm sorry if that puts you out because it is too much like work. If it does, you are more than welcome to not read my posts. For everyone else who has posted, thank you for your thoughts.

by adam.ainsworth

OK. Firstly, you just assumed your computer was out of date, and that it was incapable of running the newest software. Or is this something you researched? If you had, I am sure that you would have uncovered that it is not the hardware (at least not all of it) that is slowing you down, but more likely an OS issue, a configuration / fragmentation issue or just one piece of hardware. These aren't opinions, they are facts and all sites will more or less agree on priorities when upgrading your system to play hardcore games.

If you have spent a ton of time searching fruitlessly on Google, perhaps you could let other people know which search terms you used and ask for help with that, or at least stop your potential advisors repeating your searches. This way, you can learn how to find the answers so you won't have to ask next time.

Secondly, you asked what the difference was between these two CPU's. It took me around 15 seconds to find the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_D) after a simple Google search and that tells you what the differences between the 800 series and 900 series are.

The only set of opinions you asked for is gaming with MCE, which I take your comment about users on board - obviously some are biased and hold grudges. However, if you read a couple from different parts of the spectrum, you will get a fair and balanced view. And why should this forum be any different? Why would people who post elsewhere be invariably biased but the people who post here completely objective? Also, I very much doubt whether the sites themselves all have identical opinions - they would make each other extraneous and thus create openings in the market for sites with differing opinions.

Finally, would you post a question about a Formula 1 car on a forum that is frequented by mechanics who maintain family saloons? I doubt it, but this is the equivalent of that. Have you tried posting on a forum on a specialist gaming website? I am sure you will receive more accurate response there than you would here (you may even find someone who has posted the question before - did you ever think of that?).

by mpd881

What side of the bed did you wake up on? Maybe you shouldn't post at 0700 in the morning. This is part of the discussion forum. I am not expecting people to do a bunch of research to answer my question. And from the posts up to this point, it doesn't appear that they have. If they have something constructive to input they do. If not they keep quiet.

I started this because my inital research into Madden 07 for the PC said the Minimum Processor was 3.0 (this was a while ago). Since I started this I have found that the requirements are much less.

As far as the Wikipedia page, if I wanted the technical specs, yes I could find that. But unfortunately I am not as smart as the rest of you out there (apparently) and sometimes I just like good dumbed-down discussions on which is better. Not in tech terms.

And finally, as for your last two paragraphs, it goes back to what I said before. I have come to appreciate people on THIS forum. And as a good chunk of IT people game also, I don't see it as a bad fit at all.

by jamesrl

The reviews I read on many sites are worthless. Either you get raves, or pans, but not much in between. Try the reviews on Cnet or worse, the vendor sites like tigerdirect. Not generally helpful.

And there is also the question of the specified minimum requirements and the real minimums. Ask any of us what the difference is in say, Microsft OS minimums and the real life minimums.

It is good to seek out advice from people who have real live experience.

James

by adam.ainsworth

0700 local time translates roughly to mid afternoon here (I'm in GB, as noted next to my name). Another nod to your research skills there.

I was on my lunch break, having spent 45 mins talking someone through connecting their laptop to their wireless router because they couldn't be bothered to read the docs.

by leoboeye

they are indeed a "leftover" from days when replacing the OS on my puter was not as obvious and simple. still, it isn't because that has become easy that I want to do it every couple of hours. visiting websites in search of software and fun is nigh impossible without at least a little protection. but basically you are right, I probably could do with just avg and spybot (the list of websites it blocks is very useful).

by adam s

What you're saying is, even though eventually games will take advantage of more video RAM, it wouldn't be worth, say, $20 to go with a video card of the same speed with more RAM? This wouldn't stall an inevitable upgrade? I'm not a "gamer", so I honestly don't know. I'm just going from a techincal standpoint.

by goofytek

Cars racing game will only run on
Windows XP using ATI or Nvidia Video Cards
with 64mb Ram recommended
It will not play on builtin Video
only ATI or Nvidia
bye retired techie & gamer Keith

by adam s

I'm sorry. I missed your point. Was this intended as a reply to my post? If so, which part?

by leoboeye

if, once in a while, I do indulge in a certain amount of "suicidal" behaviour like browsing the raunchier side of the web, the amount of popups and "related" sites brings my computer to a grinding halt in ten minutes flat. two hundred open browser windows is a bit steep for any system. since those "related" and "affiliated" websites mostly figure on spybot's block list (or I put them there) I can easily move around with only that for protection. another type of applications that needs some watching are peer2peer clients. those I use are clean, but the files aren't always. on the whole, a good backup mechanism will save you more time than any scanning and cleaning procedure. like all of us, I wish I could secure my system without the need for other measures than a tweak or two and a handful of settings. since the world is not going to be perfect withing the foreseeable future, my efforts are directed towards keeping the commercial war between "advertise anything and call it freedom" and "advertise security and call it safety" off my computer and out of my life. I am not interested in either point of view, the outcome of the conflict or even the existence of it. so I do my own protection, to the best of my ability and knowledge, even if it involves a few pragmatic choices. and once in a while we win one. since I incorporated the little tweak that disables the Links folder in Favorites into my install cd, I have done 11 windows installs. none of them have a visible or active Links folder. apparantly, there appear to be two fat benefits. firstly, the place to the right of the address bar in IE is taken by the first folder of your personal favorites, and from there access to all of them. but much more importantly, it allows me to install a service pack one, no further security updates, no firewall, no preinstalled, updated and configured virusscanner on a live and unsecured broadband connection. not a single one got infected while my installation routine was getting updated install files for about two dozen standard programs and utilities. it seems to keep the alexa spyware that shows up after about 30 seconds in a standard install out fairly efficiently. I know it is sound and good practise to do it the secure way, nevertheless, if you feel confident and adventurous, it does shave the scanning straight after the installation off, and the cumbersome offline updating for the virusscanner. maybe another small step away from the battlefield?

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