Gas Prices

that so many oil producing countries seem to be against the US producing their own.

We often hear the weak reply of how long it will take, or how little any one spot will produce.

What advantage to people against the US drilling their own oil, is there for the US to continue to be weakened financially? We have been told repeatedly that the world hates the US for reasons other than jealousy, so why do they want it to continue to struggle? Especially when so many other nations are joined at the hip financially with the US and are hurt with the same actions?

The US drilling or not drilling will not have any effect on man-made global warming, so what is the agenda?

Why should we follow the path of doing nothing?

Answer, we shouldn't.

[i]"Why are prices so high? Because the pipelines are constantly being targeted by the terrorists. They know how to hit an American, in the pocketbook."[/i]

Although it may be true that terrorists target oil refineries and pipelines to target the US. Their prime reason is to disrupt the economy of the country and its government that owns those resources.

Oil prices are not increasing due to a reduction in supply from the Middle east. In fact, of the top 15 crude oil suppliers to the US, every country in the middle east has supplied more to the US in 2008 than in 2007... to the tune of a total of over 400,000 more barrels per day.

Of the top 15 countries supplying crude to the US, the reduction of supply has actually come from Mexico, Venezuela, Russia, Angola and Algeria which has dropped by over 670,000 barrels per day.

I'm not aware of terrorist attacks to those country's pipelines.

In reality, the price of crude has not risen so much by a lack of supply as it has from a increase in demand from quickly developing countries such as China, the lower value of the US Dollar, speculators, and the fear by suppliers of what may happen in the near future with Iran and, to some extent, Syria.

I know it's very difficult to find anything but liberally-slanted, anti-US news in Canada. But the facts are not hard to find if you look.

The main argument I will give for increasing refining and drilling in the US is to better our energy independence. This in order to keep from being controlled by third-world countries and rogue dictators that serve no good purpose by being in our "pocketbook."

Yes. The benefits from building more refineries and drilling for oil off-shore as well as ANWR will not be felt for many years to come. But, the possibility of a more renewable and cost-efficient energy source taking the place of oil is even farther off. The US has been near-sighted in respect to oil for far too long due primarily to the failures of eight years of Clinton and the ignorance first fostered by the Carter administration. Like it or not, industry and the economy here and in Canada are overwhelmingly dependent on oil. I see this as a necessary tact to ensure economic strength in the interim.

To be fair, the problems we're experiencing today are the result of something that started four decades ago. Prior to 1970, The US was the world's #1 supplier of crude oil. Since then our production has dropped by over 35%. This primarily due to a lack of more drilling and no new refineries.

The current 'fuel crisis', as the Media likes to call it, does not have a quick solution. Although reducing gas taxes would help. The focus needs to be more on where we will be in the next 10 to 15 years. I see such targeted plans to be very "relevant."
Quite frankly, I'm not that shocked with the current fuel prices and expect them to go considerably higher before we see any substantial reduction. We've enjoyed gas prices that have been much lower than most other countries for longer than I can remember. As we now live in a world where the economy and prices are driven more by the world rather than a few countries, it only makes sense to see some 'leveling.'

Lastly, it is not my intention to aggravate. The last thing I want is to have a Canadian pissed at me. After all, Canada is our #1 supplier of oil as you did correctly point out.

BTW, ... how much of the price per gallon in Canada goes to taxes? Here it is appx. 50?. California is the highest at 75? and here in SC it's 35?. (State & Federal combined).

Because I have standards in life, I can not vote for Obama, but I also can't vote for McCain.

It will be the symbolic third party wasted vote for me.

to the oil companies by the vehicle manufacturers

Guess we know where they sit on the subject

rack that 3rd party percentage up in every election, and maybe, just maybe, the Dems and Reps will get their heads out of their @sses as they watch the voters turning away from them.

I am from New Zealand not the United States of America

Yes we have a different fuel to you
They use different additives
Duh its not that hard I am sure you can remember who you are talking to if you try really hard

I wrote in my first post
Do not fill the car up any more than you have too (why carry around the weight of extra fuel)
Well you screwed that up
I did not say run around with an empty tank
What does extra mean?
Take reading lessons you seem to need them

You lost the chance of a meaningful discussion right there

But in the next post I wrote
So ? to ? is right for most cars
Still not saying empty

With your reading lessons get some help with your spelling

One other thing
Just in case scenarios mean nothing to me
They have been distorted by sales and marketing so much it is a pointless argument now

I did not ask you
You got on your soapbox and started preaching

My original post
https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=267053&messageID=2528622

Was an attempt to help someone with the rising price of fuel

You do go on and on and on
Talk about off topic

Lets see if I can get this right
The Internet is a game
The real world is outside
Try life you?ll like it

Now who was it that said that

Why the others have not piped in

Well they may think it?s a waste of time arguing with someone who conveniently misreads a post just to start an argument
I think you do it on purpose

Maybe they think an off topic rant is not worth responding to

Your posts are so much like trolling it?s not funny

But that?s life
Loony?s are a part of life

PS your hatred of the yanks is making you blind
New Zealand remember not yank
Got it now?
The clue
Its on the map

My engineer buddies laughed when I showed them what you wrote
I joined in

Ok I will assume this is placed wrong

via oil only. You assumed, you forgot, and you miss quoted my position in your response.

need a link to find out where it's at in this thread Oz?

Using your logic.

Look it up yourself, it's not my job to find your mistakes. You do know how to do that Oz, don't you?

Dan

I honestly don't expect third parties to ever be more than a spoiler.

After all, Ross got Clinton in office in the first place.

but if we're not in it for the long haul - our kids, their kids - why bother in the first place?

OZ_Media has a habit of turning meaningful discussions into a full-blown argument
Rickk has been called a troll in the past but I do like his new avatar

There are many people working on solutions
Who does not matter?
It will take time a lot of time
It will be to late for a lot of people

But there are things you can do
Even if you don?t need to save fuel
Saving can help someone else
Helping someone else may stop them using crime to supplement their income

So even if you are rich
Saving can help you

I have no problem with the people of North America
Trying to remember if Mexico is central or North America
But Mexicans are fine by me
OZ_Media is not Canadian
So he says

Thanks for the IQ bit
Rick will like it I am sure
OZ already knows it

I was waiting for the ?your not very good at this? tactic to appear

You are a true artist
The number of names you have for people who disagree with you are great
Keep it up and no repeats
You will lose points for every repeat

Go on admit it you love this
Arguing and fighting insulting everyone
You live for it

Get the clue
Why do you think everyone is arguing with you?

Remember
Big Ole Jack
ManicMan
May they forever rest in peace

Your not very good at being human you?

Good work Mate

I hope a lot of people get some help from this discussion
Despite the efforts of the Oz critic

To all the people reading this I hope you found some thing to help you
Even the small things can add up

I think that was one of the reasons rickk started this discussion

Good on yah rick

Damn now I am starting to sound like a aussie
Don?t think I could ever be as bad as an ozzie

?Americans will cease to care and will just start wasting oil just as with all other resources that don't seem to matter until unavailable on tap?

You idiot
Everyone knows there are different classes in every society

To insisted that poor Americans waste oil because rich Americans waste oil is stupid

Get a clue dumb ass

Ps your acting is not very good

?I am completely free to offer my opinion on countries of the world, just as so many Americans offer their opoinoins of France, England, Canada, Iran, Iraq etc. There is no special exemption for Americans, though I know you feel there should be one.?

That looks a lot like two wrongs make a right to me
You will need better reasons than that

Smarten up
That argument is stupid
You can do better

Re One of Dan's Theme's
Rick

The blame game is pointless
The mistake being made is people are looking at only one problem and one solution

As I wrote in an earlier reply even the people who can afford the price rise can help
In fact those are the people who should be looking at alternatives
Why?
Because they can afford them

I had already cut back on the use of my car before much of the price rises
I actually did not use it at all for 2 weeks

I have very little need for a car
Most of the time I use it for travelling to someone else?s place to help with some problem they have

I can walk to the shops
Walking
The doc does go on about how much he wants me to walk

Re Rick, I appolgize for going off track
Dan

You really must stop letting the one get under your skin
Most of the BAD Oz is an act
He needs to feel better than others
You are letting him drag you down
Forget about that sort of loser they are so unimportant

Drilling is one of the many things that should be done
It will help in the future
Oil will always have its uses
As an emergency reserve power is one
It is very good for heating and cooking

Price and cost are relative
It depends on what you are measuring

Time at this moment is one of the most important

Cost is not always about money
Sometimes the cost is lives

Most of it has been covered already
So I wont repeat

One of the groups that want fast change is the greenies
Need I say more?

Well its 5:08 pm on a Thursday here in NZ
I am going to be busy tomorrow and Saturday

I am getting weary
So I may not be back till Monday

Cheers

"You North Americans are all the same anyway what difference does a border make"

I was joking
The Aussies would have got it

You are lucky
How would you like it if your nearest neighbour was a member of the commonwealth and gave you a hard time all the time

?As for slamming New Zealand, why? What have you ever done??

Yes I did know what you meant
But where is the humour in that

?Did you do something wrong that we should all know about??
I suppose you expect a confession
Do your own research

?Are you just upset that I am missing a valuable flaw in your country??
No your not here so its all fine
Poor Canada
Diamonds can have valuable flaws

The real trouble is Oz
Talking to you is just too much trouble for most
I have talked to others about the topic but with you it is pointless
Why?
Because you have a reading comprehension problem
Which is the cause of the argument at the start of this discussion

Now why don?t you try to convince me that you are not doing it on purpose?
It would fit with your rants to the Americans
You know the anti ones

I admitted nothing as far as my knowledge of fuel components goes
You assumed
That was your mistake

?If it's not in the law book, it's rightness or wrongness is a matter of non-enforcable opinion.?

It is sad how many people base right and wrong on the law and what they can get away with

One of the things I say is

If you can not tell your family and friends what you have done
You should not have done it in the first place

So many young people are totally clueless when it comes to morals
I guess its why so many get in trouble at home and with the law

This is off topic
But I wanted to let you know I agree

Steve

Now what is the favourite English past time?

Nope not soccer something else
Cricket? No there is something else

Well its not important
You know the answer anyway

Ps don?t get smart and say sex the rest of the world knows you lot hardly ever get it

I stated several times over that you shouldn't run less than a 1/4 tank. I didn't say empty either, perhaps a few comprehension skills upgrades would help you, but I did say why manufacturers don't recommend running too low and, if empty, the need to replace the fuel filter. So if fuel does not gum up your tank and sludge as well as other contaminants commonly found in fuels, why would they recommend replacing the fuel filter? Does it help strain the kiwi juice or something?

Why would that be, do you think?

Perhaps your engineer buddies can help you with that one.

Well done
he's a poet
and didn't know it

do you feel a need
to share
your personal
opinions with others

so that you
can strengthen
your own argument
in
your
o
w
n
m
i
n
d

LOL, nice post, what a maroon!:D

?Blame people for our government? nooo canadians blame teh Canadfian govermment, I blame the US government for thei ractions, and pobvisouly those who support such actions as if clueless that the government conmsists of backstabbing, liars with an alternate agenda. People that supporty such idiocy are just as bad as the idiots themselves. If I ever said teh canadian or UK governments wer great and doing the right thing, I would expect he exact same in return. It's called accepting reality, we KNOW our governments are a joke but they aren't out there tryign to change the world and tehy aren't putting us directly into harms way whiel escalatign that harm.?

Would you mind retyping that
It is too hard to decrypt
I am not being rude it is just to hard and I don?t want to get the wrong meaning

Seal clubbing
You are totally evil
Real men would take on the adult males

How much do the Eskimos charge to teach the rest to you foreigners?

Damn
Polar bears are you crazy
Who is stooped enough to try and line them up
Its not the kicks but the biting and chewing you should watch

What about bowling penguins that would be safer

No what am I saying
You need to try boxing with the polar bears
Go for it be a man
Life is for pussys

From wikipedia and quoted directly, to include that they are the first to be considered oil independent.

As I have said, god knows how many times now, I am NOT stating that Brazil has the right solution for America, in fact it has already been deemed not a viable option by Sir Richard Branson who sunk some 3 million into starting his own ethanol company.

Your poinr is moot, so it took 30 years for Braxil to get to the oil independent level, which is also clearly stated in the Wiki article I linked to myself, as a gradual effort mandated by the government to push auto makers for more efficient cars,

How oil independent will America be in that same period by drilling more wells?

Look it up yourself, I don't have time for your senseless ranting about nothing anymore, you even post three or four posts in a row, as if talking to yourself or perhaps its the old, 'say it enough times and you believe its true' issue? I dont know nor do I care in teh least. Just go get some professional help and get a life!

ok. heres how it works, first get a male baby gorilla, then tie weights to his hands and feet. make sure to give him plenty of steroids and meth as he grows. be sure to keep him blindfolded too, that way when you slap him randomly he wont know where you are. keep up this activity for the next six years. Then just before the "experiment", give him rabies. allow the rabies to stew for about four days.after the fourth day give your gorilla no less than twenty hits of LSD and four grams of X , then release him onto an elevator. Tell me that wouldnt work. Its perfect, think about it, it tottally runs on gorillas

Nothing to do with two wrongs make a right at all.

I am not blaming someone for being American or invalidating someone for being American, I am simply opposed to the US government and their opinions and actions, those who support those opinions and actions are fair game to have those opinions and actions criticized, such as this other tosser here who can't spell the simplest words or formulate the most basic sentence sentence, yet alone understand debate.

There are other Americans here I completely agree with, we share very similar political views (you do know that many Americans oppose the war and government policies and Bush too right)and even when I don't we both share civil opinions or agree to disagree and move on. Which part of that would be considered anti-American or bigotry against Americans as a people?

I'm a born again pisstank
and I've seen the light
its a big neon sign that spelled PUB.

Used to be 13 with the consent of one parent or in case of pregnancy, when I was in college and took my sociology work. Of course, that was the early 90s. Laws change.

Maybe the laws will change for automobile mileage too before gas hits $10 a gallon.

Added: Used to be in Texas it was 16 with one parent consenting, but it looks as though you can be married as early as 14 now.

What a world.

doing what is right. :)

I've never thought or said a bad thing about New Zealand. In fact, the few people I've met from there are quite pleasant, polite, and love a pint as much as myself.

Maybe I should try to move there. I might get along with your people better than I do my own.

Wouldn't be the first time I've discovered that much.

[i]It is sad how many people base right and wrong on the law and what they can get away with[/i]

that's what you think I'm doing, you're incorrect. I'm just saying if it's not the law, you cannot force your version of right and wrong down other people's throats... Just because YOU think something is wrong doesn't mean everybody else does. Even God doesn't FORCE us to follow His law. He would like us to CHOOSE the right path, but He doesn't force us.

If it's just a statement, I agree.

It's been over thirty 30 years since I've been in the Quad City area, (I went to college, one of them, in Oskaloosa) and I see some things haven't changed. It was the same then, only at that time there was hope. Sad. Iowa has always impressed me as having a population with a higher level of inteiegence than the rest of the US. How did they get left off the gravy train? Or were they smart enough to stay off the credit train?
BTW there are some smart people working on the problems. But, that's science and you won't hear about in the media. They're too busy with their noses up the polico's butt, or panty watching in Holywood. These are sad times indeed. -d

I never fit in there really.
Others wore Wrangler, I wore Levis.
Others wore Stetson hats, I wore baseball caps.
Others wore Nocona or Tony Lama boots, I wore running shoes.
Others were into partying, I was...well, I partied my senior year. lol

I was in a play too, but I played Santa Claus. Damn elementary schools lol :D

True.

Of course, they can't tie cancer to second-hand smoke either. A pommegrant has more nicotine in it than a pack of cigarettes. Plus, they can show you people who were around smokers all their lives who never got cancer.

Second-hand smoke doesn't kill. It's your genetics. Blame your parents. lol

(But, it sure makes things smell bad. lol :D)

McCain is just to wrong on to many issues and Obama is just to wrong on all the issues.

America is a great country, and with your help, Obama will "CHANGE" that! And mindless drones are sucking that koolaid right up.

It will be interesting to see what the effects of white guilt and racism will have. His supporters don't realize it is just as stupid to vote for someone BECAUSE they are black as it is to vote for someone BECAUSE they are white. Color of skin is not a qualifier or a disqualifier, but people are willing to flush the nation down the drain to have the symbolic "first black president".

At least Mitt understood business and finances. Neither McCain nor Obama do.

While it might not matter to you kiwi's down there, in the Northern Latitudes it is important. Canada is rather North if my maps are correct, as is most of Europe, and that is even taught in the driving schools. Why you ask? Because of condisation. Gasoline is made up of water as well as oils stuff. (hence: Hydro-Carbons.) When a tank is kept near full there is less condisation and there full less water in the tank. In winter the water aclumulating in a tank kept at less than ⅓ full will acumulate enough water to freeze the fuel system. (As in car don't work.) Your engineer friends should have known this.
As for the additives, you haven't got a clue here as to the chemicle make up of modern petrolem products. Yes they do have additives, all of them do, and yours does too. They actual mixture will depend on the climate area where they will be consumed. Basic Fuel Management Courses cover this. -d

... There most probabley not have been a Battle of the Bulge. The deaster of that missadventure (on the Russian Front) was the single most important turning point of the War in Europe. A stragic blunder from the begining. Lessons learned? Doesn't look like it. The US's misadventure in Iraq is proving not much different. Sad times indeed. -d

There is also a difference in the fuel additives for the different seasons, to help with freezing and such.

Another big problem with the empty tank is for the long term life of your car.

There is the condensation previously mentioned that makes your car run like crap, but it also causes the inside of the tank to rust. The flakes get knocked off when you fill up and settle to the bottom of the tank.

The further down in the tank you get, the more of the particles you are sucking into your engine. When is the last time you changed your fuel filter?

I consider 1/4 as empty. I can't do 1/2 because I would have to get gas every day instead of every other day like I do now. (700 miles a week minimum).

Recent news illuminates a growing problem... government run amuck!

This country has the greatest variety of culture (where a lot of one's sense of right and wrong comes from) in the world. [b]That really is this country's greatest resource[/b]. It allows people to compare what they believe with what their neighbor believes side-by-side and can see what really counts... the results. You see what your neighbor is doing right and he sees what you're doing right and change will occur... naturally... no force required. We ALL have the opportunity to lead by example. Our results will determine how well we do that. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

But our government has become a hindrance to that. Powerful people of a time have used the influence they had at that particular time to write down their version of right and wrong and gave the government the power to force it down everyone's throat. They're forcing vastly different peoples into ever narrowing categories for [i]their[/i] convenience and it is creating strife and dissension. They are inhibiting progress (ever notice it's a lot easier to enact a law than to remove it?).

We need to take our country back. I hope it can be done peacefully.

[i]they can't tie cancer to second-hand smoke either[/i]

and the evidence they have is growing weaker. Radon exposure causes more cancer, and guess where it accumulates? In the same places second-hand smoke accumulates. But you can't SEE radon gas, so you don't BLAME radon gas.

Just like some people think diesel exhaust is dirtier than gasoline exhaust... it's not!

http://sodahead.com/question/106722/

Oops! :)

is to leave it and take my tax monies away from them.

I can get dual citizenship somewhere else that I believe holds more in line with my personal values, e.g.- Ireland or Scotland.

I can still maintain my citizenship in the USA and then at 67 draw that Social Security that I've been paying into since I was 11.

But, I can always go somewhere else and be a dual citizen and be resident there and pay their taxes. Hence, taking my money and taxes away from the USA is the best protest I can do.

Not contributing to a government who won't represent me properly is the best way I can think of to truly make a point.

And, it's something I am still considering to this very day.

from what I understand, the soils in NC, SC and VA (where the majority of cig tobacco is grown) are rich in radon.

I bet that tobacco absorbs radon real nice, along with all the other chemicals and pesticides they use growing it.

Cancer cocktail, anyone? lol

You said, "i don't remember suggesting you get out of Iraq, you can post a link to where I did though if I missed something."

I found these comments from you:

1) "If you were not at war in the middle east, the oil problem would have less impact."

Sounds like a withdraw comment to me.

2) "If more troops were focused in Afghanistan still, perhaps the number of attacks on that pipeline would be reduced."

Pure foolishness. The amount of oil going through the Strait of Hormuz dwarfs that amount being transported thru Afghanistan.

With Iraq and Iran doing everything they can to try to control the strait, I think our priorities are well aligned with the real threats.

3) "Americans were told to forget about Afghanistan because Iraq was the new threat."

Are you implying that the US can't fight more than one war at a time? Give me a break.

4) "Well done, you can thank your BS leader for that one too."

Nice political commentary. Is that the best you can do?

Do I need to remind you that George Bush was elected twice. That his popularity is at a all time low but is almost double that of Congress.

Glad to hear you don't like our President but it works both ways. There are plenty of Americans who don't approve of yours too.

You said, "As for teh US havign better gas than Canada, think again. We have stricter guidelines than most US states, the only one that is close to Canada is Califronia after the emissions act of 1986."

One question for you:

It's an established fact that the various chemicals added to fuel in places like California and Canada (year round) and elsewhere (typically in summer months) to help fight ozone and smog actually decrease gas mileage. Usually by 1-3%.

Now the question. Don't you think that while decreasing the pollutants put out is good that decreasing the gas mileage is bad?

I mean really, so I put out less pollutants per gallon but I end up using more gallons.

Nice! Who was the freaking genius that came up with this idea?

Sighting Detroit & Washington as sample US media sources serves to strengthen my belief in your unfortunate sources of information. You could not have made worse choices unless you added San Francisco, Seattle or Denver. The ultra-liberal, socio-political disaster that is Detroit is the major reason I moved from there two years ago.

Having lived in Detroit for 19 years, I am very familiar with most of the news coming out of Canada. If you sincerely believe it is "more thorough than news in the US" then I can very easily understand the source of your clouded judgment. That also clearly explains your stance on Iraq and Afghanistan.

But I see misinformation in a similar way as I do religion: if it makes you happy and feel secure, I have no problem with it. That is as long as you don't threaten my personal happiness and security. And since you're from Canada, there's not much threat of that. ;-)

sideline: The only thing I miss from living in Detroit is being able to cheer on the Red Wings whenever they stomp a team from across the border. Go Wings! :D
(...too bad they have to do it with ex-canucks on the team)

How much of the cost of a gallon (or litre - I can convert) of fuel in Canada goes to taxes?

I believe it used to be appx. 30%. Is it the same or more now?

It is actually vehicles in North America that are most responsible for poor fuel combustion. Our vehicles are built cheap, the engines are of the absolute minimum to pass specs. This is how they keep car prices low so that people here will buy them.

It seems that people here are far more concerned abotu the bottom line when buying a car than the quality of engineering.

that's why identical models in Europe are actually nuilt way better than out here, even with North American manufacturers products, European versions are built better that North American.

Additives are ALWAYS in gas, summer, winter, fall in all countries, additives were initially used to stop knock and ping due to pre and post ignition combustion. In North American this is even mroeso due to lighter weight materials where the engines run hotter, thus causing ignition in the exhaust process. Ford designed a thermactor system for reburing emitted gas as so much fuel was wasted creating higher emissions.

GM used a similar system but just a check valve to recycle exhaust into the manifold again. and so on for various manufacturers.

With the poorly designed, cheap engines we face here, we have no hope for getting a full burn and getting maximum fuel efficiency.

Just take the compact spare tire for example.
they put a cheap, steel stamped rim with a 60km tire in the back (apparently) to make the car lighter and improve mileage.

While is does reduce trunk weight a slight bit, the key advantage was the cost of a compact spare compared to a full size tire and rim. Again, it merely keeps the consumers bottom line lower, while offering a meanial fuel advantage.

While people around teh world think we live in prosperous and rich countries, everyone has a heap of money from such lucrative enterprises in North America, the reality is people are just too cheap and demand cheap crap of teh lowest quality.

Just look at our retail environment, same thing. Cheap crap manufactured merely for offering lower prices to entice North American consumers.

But you picked up the ball anyway, well done.

Many of the chemicals in processed tobacco come from the drying process, where they hang the tobacco on racks, but them in sheds and dry them out by using propane/Natural gas heaters. The sheds I've seen get sealed up tight meaning there is no place for the particulate created by the heaters to go, and the tobacco absorbs it.

James

Vary from region to region:
http://www.fuelfocus.nrcan.gc.ca/fact_sheets/gasprice_e.cfm

But the national average:
For Gas at 105 a litre (January 2008)
59.4 cents to crude costs
14.9 to federal taxes
16.9 to provincial taxes
14.3 to refining/marketing/retailling

James

[i][Do you really believe] you have the right to impose costs which "others" have no control over onto those "others". By what theory is it OK for you to, for example, have children and impose their health care costs onto others?[/i]

Do I have the right? Of course not. That is the function of government to establish that system. Not me.

By what theory is it okay? The Preamble to the Constitution of the United States.

Let me remind you exactly what it says:

[i]We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, [b]promote the general Welfare[/b], and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.[/i]

Read it...that's the principle that our country was [b]FOUNDED ON[/b]: promoting the general welfare of the country.

If you don't like it, I invite you to move to another country. But, don't act like going against the constitution of my nation is okay for you to do because you decide it's what interests you most.

[i]Why then, would not those "others" have a right to limit if and how many children you could have, in order to control their costs?[/i]

Because I have no kids. You can't limit what's not there.

Plus, I can (and just might) move to another country at some point in the future. I'd be glad to take my 10's of thousands per year I pay in all sorts of taxes to another country where I am better represented and accepted.

[i]What? you don't think that's reasonable? Well that's the problem when you get rid of personal responsibility and replace it with mob rule. When you vote to take away liberties that you don't like from some people, you give them the right to take away liberties they don't like from you. Your ox just hasn't been gored... yet! [/i]

You've never shown me an example yet of how allowing personal freedom to enter the stage of extreme materialism and wasteful excess is a personal responsibility. As I said before, it's personal [b]indulgence[/b] and not freedom or liberty.

And my ox won't ever have to be gored, because i don't fatten my ox up as a target for being butchered like some folks.

You espouse that "personal freedom" and "liberty" means "do whatever I want and when I want as long as it is not illegal".

Well, I can tell you all day "I think you're a m*****f***er." and "I think you like to have sex with kids." and that's totally legal. Why? Cause, it's my right to express my opinion of you. And, that's constitutionally protected.

However, I don't think either thing. And, I have more [b]personal responsibility[/b] over myself than to act like a social retard and do obtuse, irresponsible, and mindlessly heinous actions.

I'm an adult, and I do my best to act like one, and not like some spoiled kid who can do or say what they want just because they have some wealth or gift others don't.

Again, I wish you well. Allowing personal freedom to lead to anarchy and extremist activities is what has brought down many a great empire.

"
1) "If you were not at war in the middle east, the oil problem would have less impact."

Sounds like a withdraw comment to me."

Does it? I didn't mention withdrawing, but perhaps the entire premise for that invasion was flawed and shouldn't have happened to begin with. I didn't mention anythign about withdrawl, it's too late now you are in it and must stay the course. Actually, anyone who has followed my comments for a while knows that is exactly my view as i have specifically said so numerous times.

2) "If more troops were focused in Afghanistan still, perhaps the number of attacks on that pipeline would be reduced."

Pure foolishness. The amount of oil going through the Strait of Hormuz dwarfs that amount being transported thru Afghanistan."

Foolishness? Well you seem to think THAT comment also refers to you leaving Iraq, again I said nothing of the sort. You shouldn't be there at all, and should have stayed in Afghanistan where little has remained changed but the opposition is much stronger than every before, when you were lead to believe to had stopped or even slowed the Taliban, which is not the case at all, they just moved back into their Kandahar safe haven.

***On a side note, here's an interesting article from AgfhanMagazine, to show what THEIR thoughts on America's actions since teh cold war have been. They apprently don't see anything but betrayal and backstabbing from America.
http://www.afghanmagazine.com/2004_07/articles/pipeline.shtml

". Had the US not neglected Afghanistan in the first place and later on, the country would not have turned into an operational terrorist base for Bin Laden and Al-Qaida to mount major attacks against the United States. "

anyhow back to pipelines, from various sources:
"Saudi authorities arrested 701 suspected al-Qaida-linked militants in 2008, some of whom planned a car bomb attack on an oil installation, the Interior Ministry said Wednesday. "

"Al-Qaida has called for attacks against the Saudi government, criticizing its alliance with the U.S. and hoping to disrupt the flow of oil to the West. The group has also labeled the government un-Islamic, even though the kingdom follows a strict interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism."

"In the latest incident to spell trouble on Pakistan?s border with Afghanistan, suspected Taliban militants attacked check posts, kidnapped Pakistani policemen, and blew up oil tankers destined for US and NATO troops in Afghanistan on Tuesday."

"Armed men attacked four checkposts on Sunday in the troubled region, where militants blew up 36 tankers bringing fuel for US and NATO troops across the border in March, wounding 100 people. "

I can go on and on with similar news from eth area, but the key is, as long as oil is a target of war, it will cost more. That's pretty basic economics.

"3) "Americans were told to forget about Afghanistan because Iraq was the new threat."

Are you implying that the US can't fight more than one war at a time? Give me a break."

No but the US can apprently only FUNd one war at a time. An issue that has resulted in many Afghani's resenting America is teh funding to offer security to members of th government was removed, thus reverted. The security to protect women who wanted to attend school and work in hospitals was handed back to tthe same terrors that you were protecting them from, so that has also reverted into a repressive and violent condition, women simply stopped going to schools and working hospitals. The only remaining member of government, her name slips me now, was exiled and fled to the safety of UN troops before being taken to America for her safety. So the hreat party about a women serving in government, her key role to support womens rights and freedoms,was a short lived victory also.

The point is, and this can consist of endless examples too, when the US removed teh bulk of its troops, Afghans saw it as teh second time they were betrayed by America and left to deal with it themselves when that financial support was imperative for rebuilding a new country.

There are not enough troop and there is not enough money in Afghanistan, as it has been diverted to Iraq now. I supopse in essence that means that you are NOT able to fight two wars at the same time afterall.

"4) "Well done, you can thank your BS leader for that one too."

Nice political commentary. Is that the best you can do?

Do I need to remind you that George Bush was elected twice"

That isn't teh greatest reply is it? I think teh bulk of the world sees you as cluless for electing him teh first time, that fact that enough people actually believed in him for a second term just shows the world that you are absolutely clueless and easily lead by the hand to be mislead because you want him to be right, whether he is or not. His entire career is a failure, failed at the oil business over and over again, yet he can still be president?

as for your concerns about Canada's PM, believe me, MOST Canadians don't like the PM no matter WHO is is or what party he represents. We don't give a toos about our own politics because our leaders aren't out there invading countries and trying to convert the world to our way of thinking.

If Canadian leaders did mroe than simply screw up Canadian politics, there would be mroe of a reson for people to care, but they pretty much sit on their a$$es and do nothing anyway.

Poltics, keep your politics out of my face, off of my daily news and out of teh world's media and I have no concern at all who you elect or what he/she does.

Thrust yoru politics down my throat, try to change the world and have an adverse effect on OUR security and all of a sudden it IS my problem too.

get it?
Not in my face, I don't care.
In my face, I do care.

Canadians in general don't give a crap about politics, unless it is someone else's politics that are effecting Canadians.

You seem to miss that I cited many sources, US news was just one of them.
Obviously, by my comments, I explained that I don't rely on a single source or even a single country's sources, so your diving in on the specifics of local US news is absolutely irrelevant and narrow sighted.

or drill your way out of an oil shortage...

I'd love to see some of his code.

You seem to miss that I cited many sources, US news was just one of them.
Obviously, by my comments, I explained that I don't rely on a single source or even a single country's sources, so yuor diving in on teh specifics of local US news is absolutely irrelevant and narrow sighted.

The funny part is that you say you lived in the area and watched Canadian news, completely failing to see the exact same argument you just made against Detroit news.

As I explained before, if a thre eminute video in Canada is only shown as a 1 minute video in the USA, how is it that you suggest we don't get the full story?

Yes some Canadian news is rather slanted, just as with US news. That's wh I rely on multiple sources, including those most Americans would never consider as they are "the enemies news, so it must be false".

Just try to think abotu what yuo are reding next time instead of just quickly saying "AHA !! "and then running with it, you'll fair better in the long run and not look so blind as to what you read.

"Glad to hear you don't like our President but it works both ways. There are plenty of Americans who don't approve of yours too. "

Well there are plenty of Canadians if nto more than Americans that don't approve of our Prime Minister too, as I have already said. But our Prime Minister isn't plcing you in greater danger, he is not screwing up the economy and spending billions of dollars tryign to change someone else's country etc.

There's a HUGE difference between the two. We KNOW that all politcians lie and cheat, there's no way anyone would support Canada's running off to Iraq to invade on false premises, that's why we didn't support the Iraq war from the get go. In teh US, people stoo dbehind a proven moron and supported his lies, his decit and everything else, when knowing full on that it was all completel horsesh1t but it was a cool cownoay way of standing up, people figured you'd just waltz in a wipe our Iraq, these boards were full of such comments at the time. Hindsight is 20/20, prhaps listen to allies and actually consider what is being said next time, instead of spitting at them, calling them traitors and finding out the hard way.

I am not the only one who has made this "mythical claim" here.

If you don't know, that's fine. Just don't bother telling someone who DOES know that he is wrong and then make yourself look even dumber by supporting the initial false assertion.

if everyone who was sick of the big two voted 3rd party, we'd have 3rd party candidates elected en masse.

As indicated my lack of attention to my spelling.

In short, most people know that EVERY government is a completely screwed up joke taht should be locked away and allowed to meet once a month to go over their disasterous plans to change the world.

However, in the USA, people actually buy into the crap they are fed, even AFTER the guy has been proven to decieve them and be feeding misinformation. They actually think they have a good leader in the White House and protect his comments and actions. Now that is what I call beign blind to reality or just simply fooled by the BS.

Were republicans really THAT happy to win office that they will support the moron no matter what he does? It sure seems that way!

The scary part is thinking that, if they support Bush, what the hell are we in for in teh future? Perhaps americans shouldn't be alowed to vote for their own president, they sure aren't very good at choosing responsible leaders these days.

I can juet ssee pomegranates with nicotine warnings on them like Canadaian cigarettes.

Surgeon generals Warning: Eating pomegranates can cause cancer, and ugly teeth!

I think what you are referring to are polyphenols which offer the same simulus as nicotine and are sometimes used as a replacement for dealing with withdrawl symptoms. I don't believe they actually have nicotine in them though, however I may be wrong on that entirely.

http://www.smoke-free.ca/warnings/Canada-warnings.htm

Nowhere have you shown any knowledge of about the US. Especially about the amount of conservation in gasoline by it's population.

Your supposed knowledge is not backed up with source references for verification.

It is not knowledge, it is an opinion only. Which you accuse many of offering only. Your opinion is based on bigotry which further reduces any possible acceptance of it. Until you back it up, your statments are nothing.

And no, I will not prove you wrong. It lies on you to back up your statements.. You made them, prove them.

What you are Oz is a typical stenotype of a salesman. Lot of talk with nothing to back it up. You redirect topics when you are questioned on specific positions. Just like a salesman. Your just a bigot on top of it.

Primary example of above mentioned typical salesman b.s. You have been asked by more then one person wtf you do to conserve. You did not address a single person who asked you. Not one. You redirected your comments just like I said you would and do because you have nothing to respond with. Your at a loss for words because you'll be asked specifics.

Oz, you said if the shoe fits about your flagrant comments about stupid Americans. Guess what, the shoe fits you about what you had the balls to spam me on. Figure it out moron. You know what I think of you.

Dan

That's alot in taxes. No wonder some conservatives there are fighting for tax reform. Are they making any head-way?

and thanks for the laughs, Oz.
It's funny to see how poor your typing becomes when someone gets your goat and objectively knows more about a subject than you do.

Relax... you can't [b]always[/b] be right.
I have faith your ego will survive.
Count to 10....

:)

Sorry old joke.

Ever been to sea Billy?
Ever been blown ashore?
No? Well bend over and I'll give you a taste of my old fish stick.

Anyway, if you feel you have somehow corrected me or made point, that's fantastic, it must have been moot as I missed it though.

But hey, it's all about how good you feel about yourself, not whether you are wrong or right. As long as you feel good that's fine by me.

If a one legged man wins the para-olympic gold medal, he's still in winner in his eyes.

...and I thought I was conversing with an adult. Well, unlike you, OZ, I can see when & admit when I was wrong.

Thanks for making my day.

seein gas this has been in teh news and countless reports have been made over many years now, I am shocked that someone of your high calibre cannot seek out the information himself.

Mind, you , you'd have to know how to spell ANWR, OIL and USA, so I can see your issue there.

So here are your links: http://tinyurl.com/2c9np

http://tinyurl.com/yjm842

have a nice day.

The GST which is a federal tax applied to goods (including Gas) and services (professional services), has gone from 7% to 6% to its current 5%.

Federal Income taxes have gone down a number of times since we first balanced the federal budget in 1998. Most provinces have balanced their budgets as well.

To quote from a government study in 2005:
This brief summary paints an overall picture of the tax situation inherited from the Liberal governments since the budget was balanced in 1998. The budget surpluses freed up since then have given the federal government considerable financial flexibility, which has enabled it to make substantial tax cuts. As we estimated for the purposes of this paper, the full range of tax reductions introduced since 1998 provided for lower individual income taxes and higher tax‑based transfers to individuals, and totalled $36.9 billion in 2005 alone. Corporations have also benefited from significant tax reductions, estimated at $4.6 billion for the 2004‑2005 fiscal year.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0640-e.htm#ageneral

Now those numbers may seem small to an American, but remember our country is roughly 10% of the population and GDP of the US.

It becomes harder as we got to get more tax cuts, there is more pressure to increase the social spending that was cut to balance the budget in the first place.

James

There isn't anything constitutional as far as I am aware about 2 parties in the US, but its hard, but not impossible to break the walls down and have more parties.

What you need to do is have string third party emerge at a time when one of the competing parties is divided and fractious. That had a chance of happening with Theodore Roosevelt who created the Bull Moose party and broke with the Republicans.

It did happen in Canada. After WWI we had a socialist party created which took some votes from the Liberals, and the Conservatives merged with the Progressive party (Teddy Roosevelt had headed a progressive movement in the US).

James

Over the past two years, I've lost touch somewhat with what's been going on up there politically. It appears, tax-wise, things are moving in the right direction. I wish I could say the same thing here.

At a time when economic growth needs to be at the forefront, it escapes me how most liberals see taxation (and conservation for that matter) as a wise direction. Neither ever strengthened the economy.

Case in point - There was a Congressman in Michigan that recently proposed an additional 50? per gallon tax increase to "force people to conserve" and earmarked the revenue to go toward preventing Global Warming. This when gas was already over $3.50 and while Michigan is in the worst economic condition of any of the states. He seemed to ignore how strongly dependent Michigan is on the automotive industry and trucking. Fortunately, it was killed (so far) or many more companies would have gone belly-up or left the state.

Additionally... every time someone suggests just a [b]temporary[/b] reduction or staying of the fuel tax, it gets nowhere. Once a tax is implemented, it is extremely tough to cut the programs that were set up to use the money.

But we ain't seen nothin' yet!
If Obama gets elected, what we pay now will look like chicken feed!

Even the NDP (socialist) governments in the some of the provinces pushed for balanced budgets.

Of course our taxes were higher to begin with, the gap has closed somewhat though.

Once you balance the budget there are huge pressures on subsequent governments to not run up a deficit.

We of course do still have a significant long term debt, but it is being reduced by the surpluses. Some people suggested that we not reduce the GST, just direct the amount we would have reduced against paying off debt.

James

[i]As I said before, it's personal indulgence and not freedom or liberty.[/i]

Is it a "personal indulgence" to have a child? How about 9 children? Should the government then limit this?

Does the definition of "personal indulgence" ever change? With the times, perhaps?

[i]You've never shown me an example yet of how allowing personal freedom to enter the stage of extreme materialism and wasteful excess is a personal responsibility.[/i]

Well, I do not presume to be qualified to force a definition of those things on anyone but myself, but here's a real-world example of what I'm talking about...

We get 10 sick-days a year. A few people abused their sick leave, and management wanted to do something about it, so a couple of years ago, they instituted a new policy where days after the 5th day are paid at 70%. The result, everyone is being treated like they're sick leave abusers, even though the majority haven't done anything wrong.

I call it the "Little Johnny got caught chewing gum in class so EVERYONE has to stay in from recess" form of legislation. It's abhorrent!

[i]And my ox won't ever have to be gored, because i don't fatten my ox up as a target for being butchered like some folks.[/i]

Ah, but someone may have a personal grudge against skinny oxen, and convince his friends to petition their legislators to outlaw them.

"[i]You espouse that "personal freedom" and "liberty" means "do whatever I want and when I want as long as it is not illegal". [/i]

Not quite. Change "is not illegal" to "does not harm another person or violate another person's rights, with determinations to be made through due process, as is guaranteed us via the fifth amendment ('... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;...')", and you'd have it.

[i]However, I don't think either thing. And, I have more personal responsibility over myself than to act like a social retard and do obtuse, irresponsible, and mindlessly heinous actions.[/i]

So you're allowed to determine your "personal responsibility" for yourself, but others are not? Are you trying to take over as dictator or king?

Maybe your first act should be telling Al Gore to stop using more fuel in a week than 10 average people do in an entire year! (or is that OK because he's buying carbon credits?)

Does profiting from another's accidental error really fit in with your definition of "personal responsibility"? :8}

[added: or is it more like http://tinyurl.com/5hjhyy]

[i]Is it a "personal indulgence" to have a child? How about 9 children? Should the government then limit this? [/i]

only in the sense that if you can not provide for the welfare and health of the child, it is taken away.

if a woman wants to blow her uterus out by havin 50 kids, let her. no one made her. just like no one makes you smoke.

[i]Does the definition of "personal indulgence" ever change? With the times, perhaps? [/i]

yes...as does personal responsibility evidently.

[i]Well, I do not presume to be qualified to force a definition of those things on anyone but myself,[/i]

but you'll force everyone else in the world to have to accept that the minority of others pollute the world unnecessarily for everyone else...just because...they have the money to afford the "personal responsibility" of having something detrimental to the quality of life for others?

[i]but here's a real-world example of what I'm talking about...[/i]

ok

[i]We get 10 sick-days a year. A few people abused their sick leave, and management wanted to do something about it, so a couple of years ago, they instituted a new policy where days after the 5th day are paid at 70%. The result, everyone is being treated like they're sick leave abusers, even though the majority haven't done anything wrong.[/i]

I'd say to contact the US Department of Labor. That sounds like unfair workplace practice, as well it violates your agreement as a (I assume you are) salaried/exempt computer professional by law. They can not dock your pay because you took sick leave by law. Go to http://www.dol.gov and check it out. I believe you all have a case for a federal suit, if they don't change their policy.

[i]I call it the "Little Johnny got caught chewing gum in class so EVERYONE has to stay in from recess" form of legislation. It's abhorrent![/i]

And, my first name is John and I find your stereotyping "John"s as miscreants offensive! :p lol

[i]Ah, but someone may have a personal grudge against skinny oxen, and convince his friends to petition their legislators to outlaw them.[/i]

Sounds like you have a self-esteem issue hating my skinny ox :p lol

[i]Not quite. Change "is not illegal" to "does not harm another person or violate another person's rights, with determinations to be made through due process, as is guaranteed us via the fifth amendment ('... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;...')", and you'd have it.[/i]

So...driving that super inefficient or higher than most at spewing exhaust and atmosphere polluting contaminates oversized vehicle does not infringe on my right to have reasonably clean air? How do you figure?

[i]So you're allowed to determine your "personal responsibility" for yourself, but others are not? Are you trying to take over as dictator or king?[/i]

No, I have common sense. And, I don't think that personal responsibility means "just taking care of me". I think it means "making sure I am doing right in every way I reasonably can".

Buying a Humvee when all you need is a Volkswagen Jetta isn't a personal responsibility. That's hubris and self-indulgence and vanity-fed egotism.

And, allowing that kind of selfish materialism to be a staple of "The American Way of Life" actually contributes to inflicting increased duress on people with respiratory ailments as well as causing other detrimental environmental factors.

But, I guess they should just suffer because they are genetically inferior.

[i]Maybe your first act should be telling Al Gore to stop using more fuel in a week than 10 average people do in an entire year! (or is that OK because he's buying carbon credits?) [/i]

Actually if I met Al Gore I'd commend him on his work to bring environmental causes to the forefront for debate and study.

But, I would definitely ask him why he and Tipper have not down-sized since all their children are now out of the house and they no longer need a huge home.

As well, i'd ask him why he hasn't put a large wind farm at his home since he is in an area that he could derive wind power from most of the year.

I'd also ask him what kind of car he uses, and why he wasn't on the list with people like Jamie Lee Curtis and Christoper Guest to get one of the new hydrogen fuel cell cars if he's such a proponent of reducing eliminating fossil fuel use.

Trust me...I don't let anyone off easy just because they talk good talk.

You'll learn

As of July 1st, we will see an additional 2.4cents per litre, which is a little over 9 cents per gallon.
Glad to see they are doing something to save the environment, well done. :D

At least BC translink has stopped getting a raise in road taxes every years or so, that was insane. A crown corporation gets deregulated, a new "private" organization takes over and starts pushing for a percentage of road taxes and other handouts that the former crown corporation was entitled to.

Make that MAY NOT need, I don't know how accessible other nations are with a US passport; I was warned against getting it, when I considered becoming a US citizen some years back, due to my need for prolonged overseas travel. Right now I can go to just about anywhere in Europe, India etc. without need for Visas and constantr updates if my stay is prolonged. I just don't really know how it would work in your case, as a US citizen.

You can apply for permanent resident status. That way you are still an American citizen, an immigrant, but pay taxes and reap befeits of the country you move to not to America. Of ocurse you would still be entitled to collect our pension fund that you paid into the USA, but in the Britain (not sure about Scotland) you would get your OAP before your US social security kicked in, then you would collect both OAP from Scotland and Social Security from the USA.

I don't know if it works so easily for a US citizen, in my case I was British and relocating to a British Commonwealth country. Still had to go through a 6 months screening, wait, blood, urine samples and other doctors clearances etc. But its worth it. As much as I LOVE England, the convenience of Eruope (going to a show in Germany is just as easy as driving to Seattle from here, but cheaper)there is no place on Earth I would rather look at and spend time in than BC. Not the cities and teh Lower Mainland crap, I can do withotu that, but it only takes a half hour to get to a reasonably remote lake or mountain to really get away and soak in the scenery.

Yesterday I went to a local beach, with perhaps 6 people spread out across the whole area, had a few beers with friends, gazed at the ocean, watched cruise ships passing through, a couple of seaplanes going to the Island and kite surfers out on the inlet.

At the time we were less than 5 minutes from the downtown core, yet you would feel like you were hours away from it all.
No people, no noise just beer, buddies and beach.

gotta love BC.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JjmJKibaWQ8/Rg8I-Lw0DLI/AAAAAAAAAvU/CYx6m4YV1wg/IMG_9346.JPG

[i]That sounds like unfair workplace practice, as well it violates your agreement as a (I assume you are) salaried/exempt computer professional by law.[/i]

I am not management. I am under the bargaining unit, and the union agreed to it (even though I refused to join the union, I am still bound by their agreements, and they get a portion of their dues from me as a "fair share payment").

[i]So...driving that super inefficient or higher than most at spewing exhaust and atmosphere polluting contaminates oversized vehicle does not infringe on my right to have reasonably clean air?[/i]

... to be determined by due process!

[i]Buying a Humvee when all you need is a Volkswagen Jetta isn't a personal responsibility.[/i]

Now you're talking about socialism.... Equality through cutting off the legs of anyone who dares stand up. Should we outlaw everything that you decide is not "all you need"? What then, would be the point of existence? Are the earth's resources really so used up that you have to start rationing them? This was the point I was making about the children. If you believe the resources are in that bad of shape, then you must agree that from now on, anyone having even one child violates the rights of everyone else. Are you prepared to do something about that? I don't think you are.

I have been doing it for a couple of years now, and have saved an estimated 4 tonnes of emissions in total now.

It is now called the nature challenge because they feel saving 1 tonne a year is nice but not enough to really have a positive impact.

Before you slag Suzuki as a lefty wingnut. He is anything but a wingnut. He's actually someone who opposes those ridiculous claims from the left, and has a far more realistic approach to the environment. He has an endless list of accreditations, has extensive experience working in the field and is prety much the voice of reason and accuracy in the face of climate change paranoia.

Your turn to put your resources where your mouth is I guess:

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/NatureChallenge/join.aspx

Think your 8+ saved miles a day will do the trick?

It is a start but only just the tip of the iceberg.

By the way oz... I did hit the spam button. Not because of your rude language... But because again you reference peoples place of origion in your slander of them. It's not even specific to the person. You just catagorized a complete nation in your insult to Tech Rat. Good job Oz.

That Oz... Is why I hit the spam button. Thanks Oz... It took one day for you to prove my point about your biggotry...
Your a biggot. And Oz.. Look hard.. find anywhere where I slandered you based on your country of origion. I don't like you. But I do not judge a nation by your actions. Or the people that live in it. You, on the other hand do. With numerous nations... And you chose the most insultive way of catagorizing those citizens. Go for it Oz... Even when I reference the rulers of Iran, i do not slander their citizens.. You on the other hand constantly do it with what now appears to be numerous nations.

Bigot.

Glad to see your a bigot with more then one nationality. It just shows how sick you are.

Dan

:D

Show a link where I said that oz.

Again, you miss quote me. I said from the very beginning that I wanted both alternate energy AND drilling

Do you need the link again oz where I corrected you the first time?

This is now the third time you have miss quoted my position.

If you can't get it right, then don't reply.

And oz... My point about it taking 30 years for Brazil.. My position was that it would take 30 years for ALTERNATE FUELS(no matter what kind) to become widely avaible for everyone. Your post, just gave me a bench mark to back up my position.

Again, if you can't follow the logic. You do know what logic is oz, don't you. Then don't bother replying.

And again oz.

Use the search... Need a lesson in how to do it? I provided both a link and highlighted my very first post stating that position.

Know how to read a time stamp oz. You know, last modify date. Look at that also, and you find it has been way before every miss quote of my position by you.

You should be a politician oz, you miss quote people enough.

Dan
[edited to add] I have no idea where the hell this post was spouse to appear in this thread. I totally lost where I had to post at the high level to reply to oz.

Get it straight oz, I didn't say what I was doing was saving the planet now did I. Again, ozzy... buddy.... is putting words in someones mouth.

Your post, I replied to. WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO CONSERVE. I stated it, and told you to back it up.

Here is another point for you oz... You walk to work from your house. I moved to where I live so that I could be close to all major highways. I contract work oz... What, I should move EVERY TIME I get a new contract? You do understand the concept of contract work don't you.

You state you travel for your job... I don't have the link where you've made that comment. Same concept oz... But, what I did was place my self in a position that would be more easily accessible to what every area I work. Did you?

Oz, big deal... YOu take the bus. I moved to the location I am at to be close to that type of transportation. I made it a point. Did you? Doubt it. I took a position that does NOT have access to that unless I am willing to travel hours. You willing to travel hours on a bus oz, to get where your going. But if the position opens up in the inner city... Which is where I EXPECTED to get a job. I will have access to multiple forms of mass transportation. And I will use them. Most likely the RTA.

Or oz, are you now trying to dictate where I should live. Where I should work. No matter about either the cost of living or the pay I would receive. Is that your statement?(no, I know it's not). But by your rant, that's exactly how it sounds.

Your link. I need to sign up for it.

I don't trust you. Never have. I refuse to go to any web site you provide that requires entry of any information. Be it real or not.

Again, I don't trust you. Simple as that.

Dan
[edited to add]I moved to this area 3 years ago. Prior to the price of energy sky rocketing. It has always been my intention to take mass transportation if the work was so located to allow it. Again, I moved to the most accessible area I knew for the part of Ohio that I live in to be accessible to as many job opportunities as possible and also the transportation system(add mass transportation to this) as possible.

Again oz... Did you take that approach when you bought your house.

And oz... No excuses.. It didn't work the way I expected. I'm not crying about it, but I sure as hell am not apologizing to likes of you for it.

First of all, "You just catagorized a complete nation in your insult to Tech Rat" Exactly, I didn't directly insult Tech Rat did I ?

You also noted that I am equally "bigoted" towards other nation, which means I do treat everyone equally and don't target a specific nation, well done!

It's also nice to see that you have become TR's new volounteer moderator, does Tammy know you have acquired her position? I am sure you could have been hired to clean up MacDonalds parking lot or crush boxes at WalMart instead of assuming someone else's job.

Then again, I didn't bother reporting all of your other posts here which are well outside of TR's allowable practices, so I suppose a quick review of the discussion will quickly show exactly what your focus is and how you completely ignore the site rules while bitching like a little girl (actually, most little girls are far more mature and literate than yourself). But that is always taken into consideration by the moderators here.

You have also proven to have no comprehension skills to speak of, even after having your atrocious spelling mistakes pointed out, you continue to post like someone just learning to write English, proving you ingest nothing that you read and simply troll for argument's sake.

How typically American it is of you to decide to become the police for others who choose not to speak for themselves, I am sure they are all quite flattered to be supported from such a clueless perspective.

No, you definitely are NOT very clever. are you?

"Get it straight oz, I didn't say what I was doing was saving the planet now did I. Again, ozzy... buddy.... is putting words in someones mouth."

Oh okay, I thought you would see the relation to reducing driving and oil consumption to being globally aware, sorry I overestimated your intelligence, your posts clearly indicate I shouldn't have.

"I stated it, and told you to back it up."
So I backed it up by explaining, exactly how you did, just how I go about being more aware of my resource waste. Actually you didn't do that at all and just went out of your way to explain that to me too.

:You walk to work from your house. I moved to where I live so that I could be close to all major highways"

okay, so perhaps you'll actually have a point coming up soon....

"I contract work oz... What, I should move EVERY TIME I get a new contract? You do understand the concept of contract work don't you."

Nope, no point made, oh well.

Do I walk to work? I usually take the skytrain, it's about a 3 hour walk as I live in the suburbs. should I move to my place of work? Which one? The US, Eastern Canada, the UK? No I don't have homes all over the world.
I did live in Oregon for a few months one year because I owned and operated three offices in Oregon and California for a while.

I do understand contract work actually, I have been under band, label and employer contracts for the last 15+ years now. I am just confused as to what possible point you could be sadly attempting to make?

"But, what I did was place my self in a position that would be more easily accessible to what every area I work. Did you?"

Yes, I live in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. in the past year I have worked in Montreal Canada, Cologne Germany, London England, Irvine California, Salem Oregon, Houston Texas, Florence Kentucky and others, where would you suggest I buy a home that would equate to your saving 8 miles per trip?

"Your link. I need to sign up for it."
Its free but regardless of what you suggest, as the website is VERY easily validated, I can guarantee that your concern is making simple sacrifices, I know there's no way you could possibly pull it off so its easier to discount the source instead.

"Again, I don't trust you. Simple as that."

Oh my, how can I possibly win your trust ,it would be so important to me? :D

"Again oz... Did you take that approach when you bought your house. "

On the island yes, I moved over for three contracts and did get a house in a remote area to be closer to work, You don't pay much attention in other areas of this website I see.

"And oz... No excuses.. It didn't work the way I expected. I'm not crying about it, but I sure as hell am not apologizing to likes of you for it."

What didn't work, work? Of course it didn't, the government only subsidizes companies who hire people with valid mental handicaps, not just people who aren't bright enough to wipe by themselves. and no need to apologize, I didn't ask for your nonsense post, I don't care if you are employed or on the streets or in jail, your life means absolutely nothing at all to me. seriously, NOTHING. Should I hear tomorrow that you were killed in a horribly tragic accident while driving to work, I would simply wonder why someone was wasting my time with it. If your mom kicked you out of the basement and told you to go to school and learn to spell for a change, it would make no difference to the world at all.
I really don't care if you were to die right now, your life means absolutely nothing to anyone I am sure. You are just useless keystrokes in cyberspace, which means nothing in the real world. Again, what a senseless comment!

Give it up, you have proven that you have nothing worth stating.

I don't know why I keep mixing you guys mixed up!

Sorry but it happens all the time, especially when you are both sharing in the same part of a thread and I am replying to both of your posts.

I say you're just screwing with my head.

But in all fairness, I just had to wade through another senseless rant from DanLM, you thought MY typing was bad, that stuff is like trying to read latin on acid with a glass eye.

I marked 2 of your posts as spam. One where you addressed Techrat directly in your insult.

Get with the program Oz... Your comprehensive reading skills suck. Your retention of the materal read is even worse.

Mutiple examples of both throughout this conversation.

And oz. Your offensive.. I respond and mark as spam only what offends me.

Your a bigot. That offends me greatly. Always has. I could care less if your a stupid moron that can't remember what people say and rant about completely off topic subjects.

And oz, as an example of retention capabilities being in the crapper. I did mention that I had bad eye site now didn't I. You do remember that don't you.

You can follow this logic now can't you. I have problems trying to see within the small space of this posting window. Gee oz, eyesite. Seeing within a small confined space. They are completely related now arn't they.

Ever wonder you bigot if that may a part of the reason not all sentences are laid out in order. That I can not scroll back easily and review?

So, whats your problem with your typing. I have noted your retention abailities over any period of time on what people say. That is why you miss quote others. That may explain why you can't type worth crap.

Oz... Your an aragont prick that could care less about anyone or anything. You crizisze and offer nothing. You shove your nose in other people's buisness. When they point out the faults of your position. You resort back to the only thing your good at. Being a bigot.

And bigottry is the only thing you have been consistant with in this thread and many other thread. If all else fails when your arguing, you insult a complete nation of people.

People like you with attitudes such as yours should be shot. That is the type of attitude that gives us war in the middle east. That is the type of attitude that gives us riots... Your attitude Oz. Your the sick pup, not I.

Id love to see you have the balls to state your very same positions in public where others can see how much of a bigot you really are. Wonder how long it would take before you were removed from the place on a streatcher.

And no, that was not a threat. So don't miss quote me. Just an observation that I think your also a coward.

Dan

Of all the things covered in my post, you addressed one. You refuse to acknowledge or prove me wrong about your miss quoting me. You have not come close to addressing the cost factor of moving to alternate fuels..

And oz... For your little itty brain. I say 30 years to become affordable for everyone... That was also pointed out in my BENCH MARK post to you about brazil.

Oz, you need to go to a doctor and have some tests done. Your reading retention sucks. I think it also is why you can't type worth crap.

I will no longer bust your balls about how bad you type... But wait, I haven't but once or twice. And only in response to your rants about my spelling skills.

So oz... Shut up unless you can address points raised. Double check your links you are replying to before you reply. Because you are taking things completely out of concept.

And oz.. You moron. At least reply to more then 1 point of a post when you reply. I've see it, you can do it.. It might take you hours to think that far ahead, but I've seen you do it... Or what oz, you'r not man enough to respond to points that your wrong about? I am, even to twits like you. I will even admit where I'm wrong, even to twits like you. Your scum oz, but even scum gets some things right. Your just not doing it today.

Oz, I hate biggots. Truely hate biggots. They are the worse example of a human being there is. You are a biggot. I truely hate you for that reason only. I will always be the first to point out biggoted comments in this forum. Remeber big jake, mechanic man. I delt with them exactly as I deal with you.

So, oz.. Yes, I will become a monitor with regard to issues like that. And oz, your the one that I currently am monitoring because I think you are exactly like those 2.

Dan
[edited to add] A scum biggot isn't worth the trouble of spell check or rereading of a post. Deal with it.

If there were no name or contact info on the bags? Yes, I would.

In fact, i've had the situation where I found a large sum of money laying on the ground and took it to the local police and gave it to them with the time and date i found it and location. They kept the money.

I found out some years later from an attorney that after 90 days in Oklahoma if no one claimed the money, it was supposed to become mine.

So, I'm not gonna trust law enforcement with it. And if I can't find the rightful owner, I damn well next time will keep $8,000 to myself instead.

BTW, if the price on the pump is $1.40: In most states, it doesn't matter what the board says. The price on the pump is the true value of the product and is to be clearly visible to consumers at the time of transaction.

Therefore if it was wrong, it is the liability of the business owner and his/her responsibility alone to ensure his product is priced accurately. Not the consumer's.

Just like if you went into Wal-Mart and they had tires for $5.38 instead of $53.80 a piece in their computer and for some reason the clerk didn't catch it. That is Wal-Mart's loss. They can not hold you responsible for their error.

Now if you were in collusion with the clerk to commit fraud, that would be a different story.

[i]sure why not?[/i]

:(

It just would make it easier for me. If I were living in Scotland or Ireland, travelling around Europe with an EU ID would be much more easy than a US passport.

As pensions go, I'd love to move across and work 15 years or so more and get a 2nd government pension. I don't trust the private pensions here.

I've worked enough years now (total 20 I think? and I am not even 40) paying into Social Security that I qualify for a nice monthly pension at age 62. Given the US dollar gets strength back against the British Pound, I could live quite nicely outside of Glasgow or Edinburgh in a little cottage and walk to the local for pints on 2 retirement pensions.

I think if I wait and start drawing my SSI at 70, I get a few hundred a month more. But, I'd forego the extra money to draw earlier. I never know when I'll keel over dead.

after all, they both start with a "J". Very confusing.... :p

And except for when the typos are funny, you will NEVER hear ME b1tch'en about it! B-)

[i]I am not management. I am under the bargaining unit, and the union agreed to it (even though I refused to join the union, I am still bound by their agreements, and they get a portion of their dues from me as a "fair share payment").[/i]

That makes sense...contractual obligation. You agreed to give up that right, which means you're not exempt.

[i]... to be determined by due process![/i]

Nah, because "The American Way of Life" nowadays is about selfishness and ego and materialism. We pursue the unnecessary out of vanity and desire to be better than the other guy for self-promotion and status, rather than to improve ourselves to make a
better me and we.

Hence, why I have looked for several years now at jobs in Europe. People there seem to have a real understanding of personal responsibility...that it's not just to self and family...but to your neighbors, town, county, country, and world. And, they seem to be more grounded as a whole.

At least, when they're not at football matches. lol

[i]Now you're talking about socialism.... Equality through cutting off the legs of anyone who dares stand up. Should we outlaw everything that you decide is not "all you need"? What then, would be the point of existence? Are the earth's resources really so used up that you have to start rationing them? This was the point I was making about the children. If you believe the resources are in that bad of shape, then you must agree that from now on, anyone having even one child violates the rights of everyone else. Are you prepared to do something about that? I don't think you are. [/i]

No. See, you're wrong there. Socialism makes every live at the same social level. I would not restrict your income, ability to study, what food you could buy. I would just make life different.

And, change is evidently something you and jdclyde fear worse than a case of herpes.

And as I said before, I have no children. Moot point.

How many do you have? If I become dictator, are you ready to let me take them away? Give them to Madonna to raise?

Fact is, you make the assumption that the Earth's resources are anyone's to do with as they wish.

And in essence, your ideology of being able to do with the world as you wish and just going out and using and taking whatever you need because it will give you what you want...is just as bad as me finding the bag of money and not turning it in.

You, sir, are taking as much of something as you want when it does not really belong to you.

That is so selfish. It's as though you think that your paycheck entitles you to do anything with something that doesn't wholly belong to you...including doing things that fulfill your enjoyment but unnecessarily and negatively impact people around you...both near and far.

I don't set what others can do. I am fully aware of that. I know I can not change it. I wish I could. Things would be a bit different if I ran the world. For one, I'd already live in the Irish countryside and walk or take the bus or train or hire a taxi everywhere. No need for a car at all.

But, I think it is in the best interest of the [b]general welfare[/b] (there's that darn phrase from the constitution again...jeez) of our country environmentally, economically, and socially, to be more prudent and [b]responsible[/b] with how we use our resources and those we acquire from other countries.

While your view seems to be the "oh hell...it doesn't matter...as long as I'm happy and having fun" point of view.

The day they make a 35 mpg Humvee, I'll have no problem with it. I doubt that will ever happen. Even when gas is $6.

But the fact is, too many people have no idea of the word "need" really means, and too often confuse it with "desire" or "want".

It's nice that you wanna drive your kid around in an Escalade, but the fact is it's spewing out more pollutants than what a Kia Sorento would and does the same job, and that just screams selfishness and lack of respect and concern for how you affect your neighbors, fellow citizens, and the world in general.

If I spray paint a wall or pee in the street, I get arrested for it.

You drive a huge tank of a vehicle that pollutes more and contributes to damaging the world around you and decreasing enjoyment of that world for the people in your area, and that is okay because it's what you want...you get to go on your merry way because bigger is better in America.

So, can you please explain to me in definitive terms how again it is your right to unnecessarily contribute to diminishing the quality of life for me, your neighbors, your country, etc., all in the name of your desire to have a bigger, fancier car that you can brag about...when supposedly personal responsibility is an exercised quality, and is supposedly in practice and in place and used by Americans today?

I think you're very wrong. Personal responsibility here has gone to the wayside in most peoples' lives in lieu of self-indulgence and vanity and lack of respect for anyone's needs other than one's self.

That's why I am an advocate of government finding qualified, intelligent, educated, sensible people to research and inform them of everything that our modernization and industrialization is doing and negatively impacting everything around us near and far.

Then, government needs to set limits and guidelines and rules that will make us more [b]personally responsible[/b], since most Americans are too busy with thinking only of themself rather than to reflect and think and plan and do the best they can.

But...you're right. People like you and jd should pray I never become dictator. I'd make life different, and that would probably so hurt you to have to change.

Skoda and Citroen and Tatu would become staple names in this country as passenger vehicles...rather than Humvee and Escalade and Navigator.

Oh well, I've written long enough. I actually have to go do some research now.

You should be happy for me. I'm taking what I want of something that doesn't belong to me, but is not secured and is open for anyone to grab and indulge in.

I'm pursuing your American way of life. Be happy!

Funny how...with money it's one thing...but, a natural resource you'd treat totally different.

They can print more money anytime.

You have to wait 30M years for more oil.

You do the math.

[i]"Wal-Mart and they had tires for $5.38 instead of $53.80 "[/i]

wrong. If it is clearly a mistake, either in the sign or the printing of an ad, they do NOT have to honor the mistake.

Maybe instead of taking "how to be a liberal weenie 101", you should have taken some consumer law classes, like I did.

we just might get that perfect storm in four years, because both of these losers are going to screw things up so horribly that the US of A is going to be close to rebellion.

We have the choice, bad for the country or REALLY bad for the country, if we go with McCain or Obama.

Vote for Obama, the choice in terrorist nations.... literally.

Is Obama an appeaser if he says he wants to talk to Iran?

If so then I guess tricky Dick was an appeaser too, because he opened up relations with China, who at the time had just undergone the "cultural revolution" and killed tens of thousands of doctors teachers etc. By the way, I don't like Nixon for the most part, but that was a lasting legecy that he doesn't get enough credit for.

There is a huge difference between attempting a dialogue and appeasing. If the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland though that they should never talk to their "enemy", they would still be killing each other.

Some former leaders quit the Taliban in Afghanistan when assured that they would get pardon and that free and fair elections would be held.

Look at Libya, former sponsor of terrorism.

Look at North Korea, tearing down their nuclear plant.

If you hold hard to the "never talk to the enemy" you miss lots of opportunities for peace.

James

Maybe the discrepancy was outrageous in prices i hypothesized, but the Wal-Mart example is no different than of a circumstance than the gas station situation.

But if you want a real life situation, here's one:

I was a kid and I went into a TG&Y store to buy a tennis racquet. When I was looking through them, I found a Wilson one that was marked $12.99 rather than $21.99 like the others. I took it to the counter and they had to sell me that product at that price.

As for what the sign said...or whatever...that's not what I was talking about.

It was the price on the pump that mattered. That is just like a price tag on an item.

If a product has a price on it, such as gasoline, and you buy it from that retailer at that price. It is [b]none[/b] of your responsibility how or what it was priced at when you purchased it. That is the responsibility of the business owner, and no one else.

If a business had a car marked at $15,000 and you went to write the check for it and they told you it was $18,000, that is illegal.

Same thing goes for any other purchase you make, even if it's gas.

As for consumer training, I've had consumer classes. That was part of my junior high education. I've also had a couple of pre-law/government classes when I started college. As for consumer law, I've never been to law school so I can't say I've had specific training. I know enough about it...at least from the perspective of Oklahoma and Florida.

If a retail outlet persistently and continuously displays or distributes an advertisement with an inaccurate pricing, it then becomes an offense. That is "bait and switch" and is illegal in most states.

However, reasonable time must be allowed for the retailer to make adjustment of their product price to match the advertisement, and vice versa.

And again, if a retailer prices a product (even if by mistake) lower than intended and makes a sale at that price level, it is not the responsibility of the consumer to pay more than what the retailer has priced his or her product at the time of purchase. And, the consumer has no culpability unless they were in league to defraud that business in some fashion.

If you take the item to the register...and it rings up at that price...and it's lower than what it should be...the most a retailer can do is pull the rest of the stock off the shelf to stop from losing any more money.

Therefore, the ignorant clerk should have been shown how to power off the pumps off by his boss/the owner. No if, no and, no but.

And again maybe in Michigan has laws that are just different than Oklahoma or Florida. If so, I feel sorry for you. You don't get much consumer protection.

But it's not made up. I've learned it and lived it.