Gas Prices

I was referring to the people in the middle east that have set up call centers of their own to help get Obama elected, because his ideals match their own.

I am sure you saw the same reports?

I did hear on the radio about the Muslim groups in the US who are upset that they can't get any time with Obama. He seems to make time for Christians and Jewish groups but not Muslims. The hint is that he doesn't want to feed the rumour mill.

James

[i]Nah, because "The American Way of Life" nowadays is about selfishness and ego and materialism.[/i]

Who says? Someone on TV or the newspaper?

[i]We pursue the unnecessary out of vanity and desire to be better than the other guy for self-promotion and status, rather than to improve ourselves to make a better me and we.[/i]

I think you speak for the minority (plus your hubris in thinking you have the right to determine what's "necessary" or "better" for someone else; unless, of course, you're paying for it).

[i]Hence, why I have looked for several years now at jobs in Europe.[/i]

Good luck with that.... truly!

[i]No. See, you're wrong there. Socialism makes every live at the same social level. I would not restrict your income, ability to study, what food you could buy. I would just make life different.[/i]

Oh? You said elsewhere that we should be "living by the minimum" or something to that effect. and implied that "personal indulgences" were bad. So if you're not going to limit income, what is the excess for? Taxes? Paying for other people's "living by the minimum" (you know... the people whose job was making other people's "personal indulgences" who are now unemployed because you made their work product illegal). If you can't buy anything with it, what's the incentive to earn it? Why do harder jobs if you're not going to derive any additional benefit from it? (OMG I just realized... [b]jck wants to unionize the whole damned country!!!![/b])

[i]And as I said before, I have no children. Moot point.[/i]

By saying it is moot, you prove that it isn't. You display your own self-centeredness and assume that everyone is like you.

[i]How many do you have?[/i]

One of blood, dozens by advice.

[i]If I become dictator, are you ready to let me take them away?[/i]

You can try...

[i]Fact is, you make the assumption that the Earth's resources are anyone's to do with as they wish.[/i]

As long as you do not harm another or violate their rights...

[i]And in essence, your ideology of being able to do with the world as you wish and just going out and using and taking whatever you need because it will give you what you want...is just as bad as me finding the bag of money and not turning it in.[/i]

I cannot do with "the world" as I wish, but I can damned sure do with "my property" as I wish (as long as I do not harm...). The bag of money is not your property, so it's not the same at all.

[More after lunch]

[i]But, I think it is in the best interest of the general welfare (there's that darn phrase from the constitution again...jeez) of our country environmentally, economically, and socially, to be more prudent and responsible with how we use our resources and those we acquire from other countries. [/i]

Regardless of what YOU think, the constitution also says the government cannot deprive anyone of life liberty or property without [b]due process [/b] "(there's that darn phrase from the constitution again...jeez)".

That means that you nor anyone else can arbitrarily decide what is "necessary" or "unnecessary" or "detrimental to the general welfare" unless you prove it and prove that the public interest is more important than the individual right. You're going to have a pretty tough time eliminating "indulgences" that way, since the courts have already ruled, for example, that states can take property from people and give it to developers to sell more of these indulgences to the public (and just think of all the pollution they'll make driving to these new malls... HARMING people who have to BREATHE...) By your way of thinking, all highways should be torn down, because they encourage people to (gasp!) DRIVE!

[i]While your view seems to be the "oh hell...it doesn't matter...as long as I'm happy and having fun" point of view.[/i]

I don't have the right to do ANYTHING that harms another person (defense against them harming me excepted) or violates their rights. I have NEVER stated different.

[i]But the fact is, too many people have no idea of the word "need" really means, and too often confuse it with "desire" or "want".[/i]

The fact is, you think that one person should have the right to determine what someone else "needs", and that what he needs is all he should have. You think the government should control people, not the other way around.

[i]I think you're very wrong. Personal responsibility here has gone to the wayside in most peoples' lives in lieu of self-indulgence and vanity and lack of respect for anyone's needs other than one's self.[/i]

And I think you're very wrong. I think that you have a distorted view of what "most people" do, and even what they think, based on ?????

[i]make us more personally responsible[/i]

Is that anything like FORCED charity? :) :)

Is the government going to "make us" love each other too? (kumbaya)

You're funny...

[I]People like you and jd should pray I never become dictator. I'd make life different, and that would probably so hurt you to have to change.[/i]

I think with you as dictator many people would change .... but probably not the way you think.

[one more edit]

I suspect your "perfect society" would bear some resemblance to a cross between the Borg, 1984, and Soylent Green. No thanks.

First of all, if you can't articulate your thoughts into a sensible post without teh constant name calling (not that it bothers me to hear what you think, again your comments are so insignificant anyway, but you sound like a small child, I would be shocked to find out you have reached grade 8 yet). In the end though, nobody actually cares what you do, say or think.

You remind me of a silver fish, "the damage caused by silverfish is negligible and they have no direct effect on human health beyond psychological distress to those who are frightened or disgusted by their appearance."

When you touch them they merely disintegrate into nothing but a little silver skid mark.

another point, do you really think ANYONE on TR is actually reading your posts? People give up pretty quickly on these sensless rants, I just have a soft spot for teh weak minde and am drawn to see if there is ANY signs of intelligence when I run across people likes yourself.

As for monitoring, you can pretend you're all grown up, you can buy some toy handcuffs and a sherriffs badge, you can wear daddy's boots or mommy's heels if you prefer, but you are still the most miniscule skid mark of a person that your constant and relentless whining over nothing relevant is completely lost on people. I am sure that with your record of posts that are outside of TR's guidelines they will be mroe than happy to accomodate your whining. LOL, I just feel sorry for those who have to listen to your BS and try to reply politely. If they were to try and delete yoru offensive posts, had I decided to report all of them, you'd have no TR presence at all and there would be no trace you actually existed, kinda like when you actually do die.

I have NO obliation or interest in replying to your demands, I think I just do it for kicks sometime because you come up with such stupid comments, its almost amusing, but gets tiring real fast too, I wonder how people in your life deal with it, if you even HAVE people in your life outside of mom's basement.

Anyway, as I have said before, and proved myself wrong, you are nto worth my or anyone else's time, do yourself a gfavour and go make up a new imaginary friend or two to hang out with, you sure need it.

oh yeah I forgot, ahem..... I hate you, I hate everything you say, I hate people just like you, people like yuo suck, you should burn in hell, damn you DanLM!

I am going to help everyone out, whether they like it or not, and stand up for them and jolly well give you what for because I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I wish you were not my mommy, I wish you were dead! I'm running away to a better place!

get a life. :D

nt

Dan

In know the US dolar has been a lot stronger than the Canadian for as long as I can remember but when was it strong against teh UK Pound? The pound has always been double and a bit on Canadian money, and US dollars up a fair bit but nothing close to that difference.

My residuals and UK income go into a UK bank, when I am over there, I have money without taking a beating on canadian dollars that way, also a bit of a tax benefit, it costs a lot to get that money into my Canadian bank.

But Us money going back to England, especially social security can't be enough is it? It helps but I don't think it's much to look forward to, sorry, I'm not trying to downplay your plan (it sounds great, it really does) but I just thought the reality was different.

In conytrast, my mother collects her pittance of a Canadian pension but also had worked a BIT in the UK but was manily a housewife and according to UK law is entitled to pension based on money my dad paid in while working. They recognize the role of a mother as being part of a family unit, when the father pays into OAP, it is credited to him and his wife. I don't THINK the same goes here.

So she collects on my dad's pension from England, which is a pittane but converted ot Canadian and added to the Canadian OAP helps. I couldn't live on it at all, I make great money now but still grind and scratch it out to get by (I like to live an expensive lifestyle sometimes).

Then again, with your penchant for musicals, I am sure that Rogers and Hammerstein will take care of you well into your golden years. ;)

Best of luck with that plan, I definitely support you all the way. In fact I'll take the train up island to have a few pints of the black stuff with you and laugh about the latest gang of young punks on TR.

Sorry I almost forgot, jerk, bastard, loser, retard, clown..

Just giving Dan some crap to complain about and submit as spam to Tammy (sorry Tammy). He's playing rent-a-moderator in his mom's new heels. ;)

I moved to Ohio to start over. To be with the woman I am now. I did not have a job. And every job I have had sence then has been easily accessable to travel wise because of where I live. My point was valid. If your too stupid or aragont enough to see it now. Your problem not mine. And don't even bother trying to dwell into my personal life or insult the woman I love, which is something I expect of you. Your not good enough.

Global awarness? You mean global warming. memory lapse again oz... You ever seen a conversation in ANY post where I bought into that b.s. My postion has ALWAYS been energy indepence. But, I don't expect you to remember previous conversations when you can't even remember current ones.

The rest of what ever you said.. Who knows, it's not worth replying to. I'm ignoring the rest of your points on purpose. Your not worth the time based on your previous comments.

And oz, in that I am not a hipocrit. I appolgize for assuming I knew why you live where you do now. I was wrong. Just as YOU were wrong with my reasons.

f/4 any further oz replies.
You smart enough to know what that means oz? It's not a cuss word and it's not a biggoted comment, so I doubt you have a clue.

Dan

YOu actually tired of teh discussion?! What is it beyond you now? You don't stoop THAt low, etc. Way too cool for this, aren;t you?

LOL

Nah, I think you are just out of uncreative BS to throw out and finally gave up.

hey I just flamed JD, why don't you do some digging, it'll give you something to send in as SPAM so you an toot your little horn and get a woody playing rent-a-moderator. LOL :D

You really are a slow one, aren't you?

OMG, I didn't even bother reading the rest, that's just too good!

Your posts should be submitted as the Friday Yuk but with a disclaimer that you need to be hosed drunk in order to understand them.

Hey what happened to being too cool to answer? I though you were on to something there. Again, get a life.

If you are old enough to remember the movie Breakfast Club, you'd probably relate to Brian when he had to make that elephant lamp. When he pulle dthr trunk the lanp didn't light up. WAAAAAAAAA! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!

Try this, make a gun out of you hand with the forefinger pointed forward like a barrel and thumb up like a hammer.
Now place it, palm out, barrel up, against your forehead and look in the mirror.

Then you can buy an stretch Escalade with 24" spinners on it and look REALLY cool!

Those guys just slay me, we get them here too, wannabe gansta's. It's so comical to see the money they pi$$ away on garbage and then they get offended when you point and laugh at them. Quit making such a spectacle of yourself if you don't want poeople to laugh at you then.

Anyway, ncie to see I am not the only one stuck in discussions with people that just don't get it no matter how often you explain yourself.

[i]Who says? Someone on TV or the newspaper?[/i]

No, common sense.

If I have a wife and myself, and I get an 8 passenger vehicle...what is the sense of having that as a passenger vehicle? Is there a need to be able to drive around in an 8 passenger vehicle when you only have 2 people that you transport in the normal day?

I'd like to know if you have any rational explanation for it, and an excuse other than "because I can".

[i]I think you speak for the minority (plus your hubris in thinking you have the right to determine what's "necessary" or "better" for someone else; unless, of course, you're paying for it).[/i]

I never said...and even in the last post said...i don't have that right...although I'd like to have it. I said it's government's right to make an informed decision of what is best for everyone...remember...basic founding principle...a government one of whose duty is to "...promote the general welfare..."?

[i]Good luck with that.... truly![/i]

Thank you.

[i]Oh? You said elsewhere that we should be "living by the minimum" or something to that effect. and implied that "personal indulgences" were bad. [/i]

I said that we should be living by the minimum that we can. That's personal responsibility in regards to being respectful to everyone else, while at the same time you do right for you and those you support.

I also said personal indulgence was bad in the regards to extreme excess and the irresponsibilities that often lead to negative impacts of them.

[i]So if you're not going to limit income, what is the excess for? Taxes? Paying for other people's "living by the minimum" (you know... the people whose job was making other people's "personal indulgences" who are now unemployed because you made their work product illegal). If you can't buy anything with it, what's the incentive to earn it? Why do harder jobs if you're not going to derive any additional benefit from it? (OMG I just realized... jck wants to unionize the whole damned country!!!!)[/i]

Gosh...I guess GM and Ford are just going to go bankrupt if they quit making trucks and SUVs, aren't they?

Oh wait...they were doing that [b]before[/b] now. Go figure.

I'm sure GM...and Ford...and any other company would adapt. In fact, they have done it before. They will do it again.

As for not being able to buy anything with it...who said you couldn't buy anything? There you go to an extreme again.

I guess you've never bought a fishing pole or canoe or tent or a gazebo or had a barn raised, have you?

Of course, you could always invest in some solar panels or a wind turbines or something like that...or wouldn't you get any satisfaction out of knowing you'd done something positive to help the environment and help improve the quality of life for everyone?

And yes, I have some solar-powered electronics in my 24 year old house. So I do practice what I preach.

[i]By saying it is moot, you prove that it isn't. You display your own self-centeredness and assume that everyone is like you.[/i]

How is it not moot want you want me to decide on a child that doesn't exist?

And I didn't assume that everyone is like me...in fact, you were the one who assumed i am out to make everyone like me.

[i]One of blood, dozens by advice.[/i]

Grats on your kid.

[i]If I become dictator, are you ready to let me take them away?

[b]You can try...[/b][/i]

Watch CNN and see how the mean dictators act. I would never be cruel enough to assume to take your kids away, unless you abused them...although you hypothesized I would out of an extremist view of what you think I believe.

About the only thing I'd do if I ran things, in regards to children and their cost...is eliminate the benefit of a person on public assistance having another child before they become self-sufficient.

[i]As long as you do not harm another or violate their rights...[/i]

So...you have the right to use something you do not own to any extent you care to? That's what you're saying?

[i]I cannot do with "the world" as I wish, but I can damned sure do with "my property" as I wish (as long as I do not harm...). The bag of money is not your property, so it's not the same at all.[/i]

By using a car that is more than you need, less efficient than you could be using and uses more than resources than necessary, and polluting more than another that you could have taken ...you are using a tool (your property) to abuse the resources of the planet (not your property).

Abuse is abuse...whether or not you use your possessions to do it.

As for the bag of money...under various laws in various jurisdictions...if I found it and turned it in...in a period of time if no one claimed it...it would be mine. So, you're circumstantially right as I am as well.

Talk it up if you want after lunch. I may or may not be here. I'm hoping the Chinese food I got makes me sick so I can sue them and have lots of money.

I need a vacation.

Somehow it just doesn't shine out of the void I consider my mind.

It's that same void that's gets me hung up in 300 posts discussions with people who have no idea what they are on about and just want to play, 'I know I am but what are you' for a week or so, uh oh, here's he comes again.

At one point...although quite some time ago, the US Dollar was stronger against the pound by far...I think $1.20-some...as compared to almost $2 now.

If it was just $1.20-some, I'd be okay with the 2nd pension from the UK for sure. Like I said, I don't need a car if I live in Scotland or Ireland or even England. The public transport is fine for me to use. I travelled that way for 18 days in 2006. Never had an issue one with getting around...other than the half eaten hotdog i almost sat on boarding the bus in Ireland.

Too bad the USA doesn't put as much emphasis on public transportation. We could probably cut our oil consumption by 30% if we'd all learn to ride together peacefully and respectfully with one another.

As for the excesses and ludicrousy of it all:

Yeah, I laugh at people who drop $3000 on a set of wheels for their car. Just amazing.

Of course, it really burns me when it moves from being silly waste to being harmful and willfully irresponsible.

Hence, why I would move to Ireland any day of the week...or even Holland for that matter. I like the idea of progress in society being more than just how much stuff you can accumulate and how fancy it is.

I just guess there's something charming about simplicity and modesty to me that most other Americans don't get.

Oh no everyone, it's policeman Dan to the rescue. I don't know what these poor people without a voice would do without you. Just continue to send Tammy work, I am sure she thanks you for wasting her time.

I could go back and tag ALL of your posts as spam as you break rules in each and every one of them, but I don't want to inundate TR staff with work, they already know you are a loser and others don't bother with your BS anyway. Give me your worst, you are just wasting people's time and pi$$ing people off now, well done. I've seen this before, believe me crying wolf is not going to get you anywhere but eventually ignored for "Mrs. Posting", oops sorry, thats MISS posting to you.

Oh my god, you're an an easy one. I've seen far better here than you, you aren't even [i]somewhat[/i] good at this.

But you just do what you feel is right for America and leave me out of it. Free the poor, helpless, voiceless people here from my wrath.

You being a moderator is as hypocritical and ridiculous as Firemarshall Bill giving fire safety tips. :D good luck with that.

"Offither Daniel! To the rethcue! Ith there a problem here, thir?" Yuk yuk yuk. :p

I know what you mean, pride doesn't have to be worn on your sleeve. YOu know hwo proud teh Irish, Scottish and British are, however you don't hear abotu it much and most wealthy people, (usually ANCIENT money) doesn't really APPEAR to be or have need to show you they are wealthy.

Ireland is a fantasic country, eve being British I can really appreciate it there. I wish i had spent more time there but have only been in for a few days at a time, something I'll have to change in future. Scotland is teh same to me, just SO interesting. Maybe that's my attraction to Europe, so much history and cultural diversity just makes it all so interesting. People are all the same really though, you go to Germany, and everyone shares a similar mindset and disposition, same in most European countries, they just get on with it.

Of course there is major class separation in England, but I find it's just old money that doesn't like to mix with new money. Those are usually the snobs we see portrayed on TV so often here, the pinky finger up, 'spot of tea' stereotype that nobody actually says in real life.

Oh well, I hope your wiches come true (you can always make your dreams come true if you want it bad enough) and you live your life in happiness wherever you choose to plant yourself until you are planted. :)

It would be fun actually talking to jck in Europe, a neat twist on things. Hell that'd be enough to get me to move home too.

I'm alright. I just expected to get sick...the shrimp in my fried rice tasted kinda undercooked. Guess those Chinese like their boiled/sauted shrimp that way sometimes lol

I guess I was just raised different than a lot of Americans, Oz. It's weird. Maybe it's that I was taught to care about others more than myself, whereas lots of Americans grew up with the "you gotta look out for number one" influence.

My parents were never like that, and never told me anything more to make sure i stayed healthy and be safe...not to have all that I could no matter what the cost to others.

As for trying to get to Europe, I have done that. Even used friends over there as references.

Seems that the EU has ruined my chances of getting across, since they have to (at least in Ireland with FAS) post a job for 4 weeks min for all qualified EU citizens to apply.

Since there's 360M Americans...and 460M EUers...I have a better chance at jobs in the USA.

Guess I'll go about keeping on applying. Never hurts. Maybe one day, I'll get across and sit and write stories about my trips to pubs in Dublin to listen to bands, or going to the pubs in the countryside to listen to the traditional song be played.

I've done both. I had the time of my life. Honestly didn't want to leave Ireland either time.

Yuo just made your first point, now if you roll up a cone of paper you have a hat to fit it.

Your point was that I will stoop low enough to reply to you, unfortunately I now have a mouth full of gravel and a need to get off the bottom of the tank, don't worry you'll get to the surface one day, after you pass away and float to the top.

Sorry abotu the typos, didn't use FF for that post, FF has a spell checker, I haven't installed the IE spell check though.

Just watch out for the wiches! :D

He is not going to listen to you
I have to wonder if he respects anyone enough to listen to what they have to say

Chill out it?s not worth getting upset over something you read in a forum
Your taking it way to seriously

?1) longer vehicle life and lower emissions. Running low (1/4 or less) on gas makes your vehicle burn sludge from teh bottom of teh tank, this harms your injectors, thorwing off the emission system and also kills teh fuel filter, gums up the fuels lines, fuel rail and makes the injector pins stick. Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.?

Note the statement (? or less)

No you didn?t say empty
I did not say less than a ?

But thanks for all the info you posted it helps people to understand why manufacturers do what the do
It is well known the US cars are of low quality
I did not think Canada was the same
How many carmakers are there?

PS I did not say what we laughed about

This is a very important off topic discussion
What is not needed is more people fooling around

You should both be ashamed of yourselves

We didn't actiually disagree, we just couldn't see the middle ground. You accused me of stating something I didn't and vice versa, but you have seen the difference and we actually don't even have any argument in our posts about it.

Fair enough on taht then,

As for car makers in canada, I am abotu to leave so i can't look it up, but we do have quite a few in the eastern provinces, that also make cars for teh US market. From what I know they are the same with the exception that we have to follow emissions guidelines similar to California, but that is pretty much everywhere now.

Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it?

We don't build anything, not just cars, as well as they do in Europe. But times are changing, Europeans are starting to feel an economic crunch and are seeking price over quality in many areas, not just vehicles.

If you?re talking about me

That would be haka not haiku guy
No I don?t do much dancing
I have some Maori blood not much

Some info for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zvs4T4RU30

The haka that you see the All Blacks use is a war haka
The All Blacks are the national rugby team
There are many types
Some are a lot like rhythmic dancing

I think the war haka is insensitive to other cultures
But it is tradition

Anyway I have to go
Haere ra

Ps I am not very good at Maori so don?t laugh

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/05/14/palestinians-phonebank-for-obama/

surprised you never saw this?

As for Obama refusing to see the muslim groups, I had heard that as well, since we have such a large muslim community in Michigan. Will he continue to discriminate if he gets into office or do we get to see the "real man"?

The way his positions are changing now, he IS starting to show he is just another washington politician. already.

That happened to me just this evening on my way home from work.

I needed to pick up some baby carrots for potatosoup. I stopped at Walmart, and saw the sign said 48 cents! I thought wow, what a deal, ad picked up 6 bags. When I got to the register they rang up $1.48... I told them about the sign, they went and looked, ad discovered that someone had apparently slid the "1" behind the "4".

I put 4 of them back.

[i]And, the consumer has no culpability unless they were in league to defraud that business in some fashion.[/i]

those consumers were waiting in line for? They damned sure couldn't see the pump price from three blocks away!

A reason for people the go off the hook

I find there is always something that has been done by both sides that sets the other off
Even if they don?t remember what it was

I have no intention of being moderator
So don?t start with the policeman crap with me

There are other people reading these posts
There is no need for them to sift through the garbage just to find something worthwhile

Yes I can be a rat if you like and I am not talking about rodents

I suppose I will get some smart ass or arrogant reply it would be typical

That I make no mistakes
I will apologise if necessary
It is part of being human nobody is perfect

But there is a type of person who takes great enjoyment in rubbing peoples faces in their mistakes
Some of them will go on and on until the victim explodes
Then the creeps act as if they are innocent

Try not to be one of those will you
No I did not call you a creep
That would mean you were being paranoid
I know you are not

Also comparing character flaws is stupid

Anyway there is always a need for cheep things
Sometimes its all people can afford

?Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it??
Maybe you are paranoid

It is very difficult for first world countries to compete with the third world
Some of the poor will work for food
I know I can?t compete with that

Damn some of that looks pompous
Never mind just another flaw
Its good to be human

In an off topic part of the discussion
With no real importance or relevance to the real subject

The real subject

People on low incomes trying to make ends meet and the effect that the rising price of gas has on their lives
A very serious subject that
An important one as well

Some things I know
They will not be able to fill their cars up very often
Some will struggle to keep at above the ? full mark
Car repairs will be impossible
Maintenance will be nonexistent

Make this little argument about ? ? and full tanks look pretty stupid

Bad bad ratty
No cheese or wine tomorrow

Could you girls get the alias right
It's Techno Rat not Tech Rat

?while bitching like a little girl (actually, most little girls are far more mature and literate than yourself)?

That is extremely offensive to little girls
I think all the parents of little girls should join in blowing you a big raspberry
I would ask you not to think or talk about little girls and bitches in the same sentence

You have no grounds for criticizing the spelling of others
You should leave that alone

Re nope

What do you have against poetry?
Or is it because it?s Japanese

Gosh am I going to get the bad spelling and grammar treatment now
You are so good at it
Go on let me have it
It don?t matter I?m just a lowly rat anyway

It is possible someone thinks you have conscience
I think it's a Myth

?If you don't know, that's fine. Just don't bother telling someone who DOES know that he is wrong and then make yourself look even dumber by supporting the initial false assertion.?

Don't know what?
I must have forgotten
Guess it cant be that important
A lot like you

So how is the wicked witch O Mighty OZ
Did you two get married yet?

I have been practising my haiku?s
But I?m not ready for a critic of your calibre

What you wrote is in the ??

?Nothing to do with two wrongs make a right at all.?
It looked like it to me

?I am not blaming someone for being American or invalidating someone for being American,?
Yes you have in many of your replies

?I am simply opposed to the US government and their opinions and actions, those who support those opinions and actions are fair game to have those opinions and actions criticized,?
Nice try
Try writing it a 100 times
Maybe I?ll start to believe you

?such as this other tosser here who can't spell the simplest words or formulate the most basic sentence sentence, yet alone understand debate.?
How clever a hidden insult
what you are really saying is there are two tossers
Let me guess your saying I am the other one

?There are other Americans here I completely agree with?
I have yet to see it

?we share very similar political views (you do know that many Americans oppose the war and government policies and Bush too right)?
No I had no idea
Would they be the same ones who didn?t vote for him or his party?

?and even when I don't we both share civil opinions or agree to disagree and move on.?
Really? You need to practise the civil part
You?re not very good at it

?Which part of that would be considered anti-American or bigotry against Americans as a people??
You talk a good story
Shame about the lies

?In short, most people know that EVERY government is a completely screwed up joke taht should be locked away and allowed to meet once a month to go over their disasterous plans to change the world.?

To say governments are screwed up is a nice way of putting it
A collection of evil bastards is closer to the truth

?However, in the USA, people actually buy into the crap they are fed, even AFTER the guy has been proven to decieve them and be feeding misinformation. They actually think they have a good leader in the White House and protect his comments and actions. Now that is what I call beign blind to reality or just simply fooled by the BS.?

Something similar happened before WWII

?The scary part is thinking that, if they support Bush, what the hell are we in for in teh future? Perhaps americans shouldn't be alowed to vote for their own president, they sure aren't very good at choosing responsible leaders these days.?

Just so long as you don?t start blaming the victims for the crimes
That is how the con artists think
There is a sucker born every day

It has never been a crime to be stupid
Fraud is a crime
But I don?t need to tell you that do I?

That could be seen as guilty until proven innocent

But governments should watch their allies as well
I am thinking about WWII

"It is sad how many people base right and wrong on the law and what they can get away with"
No that was not about you
Yes it was a statement

There is an argument that can be made
Its called promotion though murder

It goes something like this
Knock off your boss
Make sure your competition gets blamed for the murder

There are some things that most people think are wrong

Everyone has had the noisy neighbours who like to party until the wee hours
As long as the volume is below a certain level there is nothing that can be done
But that does not help the poor buggers who have to work the next day

Down south there was an old guy who had served in WWII
He had the bad luck of living next door to a vineyard
One day the vineyard decides to put in a bird scarer
It was a gas-powered gun that made a lot of noise without shooting anything out of the barrel

Anyway
Every time it went off the poor old guy flashbacked to the war
The gun was within the law so there was nothing anyone could do about it

That is from memory so sorry if I got some of it wrong

It just is.

And Techno, I'm not arguing wither it tough to pay for the gas, but if one can only afford to pay for a ⅛ tank of go-juice it should be the top ⅛ not the bottom ⅛. That also leaves enough for emergencies, such as trips to the Hospital, or Flood Evacuation. -d

But I don?t see it happening
The gas stored in the tank is the same as money sitting idle

They will just use it to try and stretch the budget
And hope there are no emergencies

It would be nice to live in an ideal world
But this is the one we are stuck with

Actually, I think the UK is being very proactive in the war on terrorism.

And there are numerous Eastern European countries doing likewise.

It's the weenies in France and Germany (mostly) that just don't get it.

Ironically, you'd think France would have a clue after being attacked and occupied twice in both world wars.

I applaud the UK's assistance in the war on terror. I don't think the US could have a stronger ally.

I really had hoped that the US had more support going into Afganistan and Iraq, however, sometimes you have to do what you got to do.

And I realize that it is hard for some of the allies of the US to deploy the kinds of resources that we have.

The US is a country of 300 million people. Some European countries are not a lot bigger than some of our individual states. We have more people, money, etc.

And I also realize that sometimes other countries don't agree with us politically. But, it's almost embarrassing the number of troops that some other countries have offered up in support.

Look at Italy. My god, we have police departments in some cities here that are bigger than the number of troops some countries have offered up to fight the war on terrorism.

The lack of support is the politicians covering their ass
They did not want to take money away from other things
Which the population of their country think of as important

If only the population knew the truth
The politicians and their cohorts are usually the cause of the lack of money
They bleed every cent they can out of every part of the system
The hardest work they do is in covering their tracks

The only reason the US got the support they did was because of 9/11
The politicians thought they could use it to make themselves look better
And they may be able squeeze a few more cents out of the system
It also gave them an excuse for the increase in the lack of money
They could blame it all on the huge cost of supporting the war
It?s a bugger that inflation

About a year ago, we had a long discussion about who was doing what.

Seque-You don't see much support in Iraq, because a lot of those allies had wanted proof rather than specualtion before invading Iraq. Bush then said you are either with us or against us and invaded anyway. Why should they join in now just because you are in over your head?

Those same countries did start an international fight against terrorism though. While the coalition was in Afghanistan, Russia and other allied nations created a joint task force for tracking down AlQaeda with the intent of infiltrating the organization enough to diruot future operations. Thye did stop quite a few 'plans' from comng to fruition but most importanly are able to provide and share important information about movement with other allies, the USA and UK also.

So while they are not IN Iraq per se, it doesn't mean eberyone is just sitting on their hands.

Really? Please post sources to such insight, I have yet to see that angle proven in all these years.

I do agree that the only reason people supported Afghanistan was because the USA, neing an allied coutry, was attacked and retaliation was in the world's best interests and goes without saying when an ally is attacked.

As for just to make politicians look good; it was no more for the benefit of other politicians looking good as it was for GWB to look good.

The only validity is that if nobody DID come to help, it would most definitely look bad. Allies support allies when attacked, turning down assitance in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or the USA being attacked, allies are not obligated to join in, end of story.

In your eyes, unless they help all the time, no questions asked, they are doing it for political appearances?

Or in other words, unless they listen to the USA and follow the US lead, they are not really allies.

?Really? Please post sources to such insight, I have yet to see that angle proven in all these years.?

Like I said about politicians
?The hardest work they do is in covering their tracks?

Which does not mean they do it personally

No I don?t feel like discussing GWB or the war in Iraq
Especially with you
It?s pointless

The war in Iraq would have never existed if the right thing had happened at the end of the gulf war
The right thing would have been the death of Saddam Hussein

?In your eyes, unless they help all the time, no questions asked, they are doing it for political appearances?

Or in other words, unless they listen to the USA and follow the US lead, they are not really allies..?

No you misunderstood
No surprise there

I have already said discussing anything with you is a waste of time
Your reading comprehension skills suck

Get better skills or get lost

Yes I am techno rat
Did you even notice

Guess again.

The US is not in over our heads. We are probably the only country on the planet that can send 200,000+ troops over seas for over 6+ years, fight two wars, and still win.

And when did I say other countries are sitting on their hands?

I know a lot of countries are helping in ways that they can. I simply said that I wished those countries that could do more would do more.

that you hear about a good deal on something...it's called...communication

my mother calls me and tells me about deals on things all the time.

First off, I couldn't agree anymore with your comment about the first Gulf War. We should of finished the job then and we wouldn't be where we are today.

The world joined hand in hand to stop Saddam.

But, I personally believe that's why we are in the position we are today. Bush senior decided to play by the rules and follow the UN mandates and stop short of Baghdad.

Bush junior, realizing the mistakes of his father decided it was time to finish the job or else we'd be doing this for the next 20 years.

You remember the drill. No fly zones, occasional bombings, sanction after sanction. Nothing was working.

[i]my mother calls me and tells me about deals on things all the time.[/i]

if your mother saw the big sign saying 4.10 and the pump saying 1.40, would she call you up and tell you about the deal?

do you take it and run or do you return the extra money?

Knowingly taking something like that is very unethical.

Ok, is it just me, or was the guy in the second article merely attempting to confuse people?

The simple fact of the matter is fuel efficiency, listed either way, requires more miles on less fuel. Unless there's a major price difference in the vehicles involved, it's usually better to go with the higher MPG vehicle. That article made no sense whatsoever. Either that, or the author of the article was smoking something when he wrote it since I have never seen a more muddled article in my life.

Tony:

If I were in the same city? Yes. She probably would be thinking it was some promotion.

And as I said, the clerk should be trained well enough how to shutdown gas pumps in case of a gasoline fire. That would have been enough to stop the pumping until the pricing issue was resolved, and therefore was negligence on part of management/ownership not having trained their staff adequately.

jdclyde:

Of course I would. I'm scummy like that. Money is money! lol :^0

Seriously, it depends. If it was like $20, no I wouldn't take it. If it's $.02, i wouldn't waste time over 2 cents. They make that up out of the penny dish.

Big difference though between an employee making an earnest mistake, and management not properly and fully training their staff of what they need to know in order to handle situations that may arise.

BTW...who priced that gas wrong on the pumps again? Was that the employee? If so, what's an employee doing setting gas prices on pumps?

Anyways...i'll take a bank truck anyday over cheap gas lol :^0

I can tell you it isn't as easy a job as you think.

having to change prices or even change over the till while busy is a chore to keep it all straight.

If someone KNOWS a price is wrong and takes advantage of it, is intentionally taking advantage of someone else, and knowingly taking screwing them over.

Guess who gets in trouble over that? Bingo, the cashier that is making just over minimum wage. If the till is off by more than $5 (at most places) then it is big trouble. Much more than that, and your cheap gas cost them their job.

When changing prices, if the price is going up, the sign gets changed first to avoid customers complaining about getting charged the higher price.

When the price is going down, you do it in the other order, again, not for legal matters, but to keep the customers less mad. (caught myself from saying "happy").

As the change on the pump is just entered into a computer now, when is the last time you saw a user type in the wrong number? Happens all the time.

[i]She probably would be thinking it was some promotion.[/i]

All the twisting and contorting you're doing to justify dishonesty....

An [u]unadvertised[/u] promotion?????

[i]Big difference though between an employee making an earnest mistake, and management not properly and fully training their staff of what they need to know in order to handle situations that may arise.[/i]

Yes, big difference. One justifies dishonesty, and the other one doesn't...

Yes I did notice that you were a bottom feeding rodent, if that was your point.

As for your brilliant support of your assertion, "gee the government covers that up so you will never see the truth."
What a crock! Yes, I'll agree that teh government tries to cover up most of what they do. I just didn't realize that you were workgin in such close relation to the government that you are actually advised of the real intent that most of America is not allowed to hear, my goodness you must be impotent.

You do realize that now you have given up the Caramilk secret that they will have to kill you, right? For someone with such inside information, you certainly are a security risk to the nation, perhaps they shouldn't have trusted a kiwi.

That's not a defense it is an opinion, one with so much bias that it isn't worthy of further consideration. I wish you were around when teh Iraq war was being discussed, we had some pretty clever and knowledgeable Americans here that would have quickly corrected your clueless views of reality. Originating from me, you wouldn't believe it if it was broadcast on every global news station in teh world anyway, that's teh way your narrow minded bias seems to work for you.

if you don't believe it, no matter what proof ispresented, you'll dent it, flame teh messenger and then come up with some absolute nonsense like, I could tell you but I'd have to kill you or of course they won't tell yuo that, it's top secret info (which only you seem to have access to and are free to share publicly). What a fool.

[i]Guess who gets in trouble over that? Bingo, the cashier that is making just over minimum wage. If the till is off by more than $5 (at most places) then it is big trouble. Much more than that, and your cheap gas cost them their job.[/i]

It doesn't matter, as long as they think they're 'sticking it to the man'. They don't realize that every dollar they take away from the man is a dollar he can't use to provide someone else with a job. (and they accuse us of being self-centered???)

" 6+ years, fight two wars, and still win."

Uh, which wars have you won so far? Afghanistan? Nope, more voiolence now than ever before. Taliban? Nope, still in full force in their safe haven in Kandahar (a neighbouring city). AlQaeda? Nope,they have grown in ridiculous porportions and are said to be stronger and larger than before, with members in over 60 countries, including the USA. Yuo can't even rid the USA of AlQaeda, good luck doing that in the Middle East, Bosnia and other nations where they actively facelift cities (by adding elaborate mosques, and parks) and recruit anyone with a bone to pick on America.

As for Iraq, yeah what a screamign success that one is, UK troops often refuse to fight alongside Americans due to thier "cowboy mentality", where are all the others? When they interview Americans in Iraq, American soldiers don't think they are "winning" anythign at all, in fact they are frustrated that theres'nothing they CAN do. Recent field documentaries have had reporters embedded with US troops in lookout camps, they watch insurgnts walk freely around outside their own walls, and there's nothing they can do. They meet with locals, only to find otu that the insurgenmts have threatened them against talking with US troops and also PAY them to offer false info to US troops.

The US can hardly say they have a grip on this one yet.

I am not saying that you don't have mroe resources to fight a 200 year war in teh Middle East, but if you think "you've won" you need to give your head a shake.

Why two wars have you WON? WW!? nope. WWII? Nope. Korea, Vietnam,? What?

Having a few hundred thousand troops and spending billions of dollars of taxpayers money whil eputting your nation into an economic crunch does not equate to winning a war in any way shape or form.

Re the Gulf War: "We should of finished the job"

I agree fully. You took the focus and force away when it was needed, leaving the cancer to spread once again.

But Saddam himself is/was never your biggest threat, in fact he was pretty good at keeping the radical fundamentalists in check and keeping HIS people under HIS rule.

But of course, leaving Afghanistan before THAT job was finished is completely logical, based on past experiences that was clearly the best soliution. Even though it has reverted to what it was before you saved the poor Afghans, it was a job well done, just don't look back and everything is AOK!

We just got slapped with a new Carbon tax on Gas, 2.4 cents/litre (about a dime a gallon) to bring our total fuel taxes in around 40 cents/litre.

JUST before imposing this tax, the government sent everyone a check for $100.00 as a acarbon tax credit, I suppose people will feel it offsets tax hikes. In a way it does, a smalelr car, taking 70L would be spending an extra $1.70 per tank, if you filled up once a week (shhhhh, it could happen!Even though I need to fill up at least twice a week) you'd actually make money over the year.

For the rest of us, it's a spit in the bucket just to make us feel like we get it back.

If there is any discrepancy between teh sign and pimp price, the pump price dominates here. If the piumps were also incorrect, the station would simply close.

The signs here are computerized but not in the sense that you ener a number, they simply roll over (digit by digit, row by row)like an old pinball game, which sometimes takes several minutes. AFTER the sign is changed, the pumps all wait until the existing cars are finished, then when all pumps are hung up, the pump price changes.

I like that. At least you will admit what most others would do, but not admit to doing.

most people woud LIEK TO THINK they would always do teh righteous thing, most people would LIKE TO THINK they wouldn't do somethign selfish but in reality, people USUALLY do what they would ideally oppose.

Just like that old, psychology question. If you saw somwonw drop $20 in a busy place, where NOBODY would be any wiser if you took it, would you follow them and return it or would you keep it.

Again, NOBODY would see you or be the wiser if you kept it.
Morally, everyone wants to think they'd do the right thing and give it back, but in reality people just pocket it.

there's all kinds of psychological reason as to WHY someone would break their moral intentions.

It was only $20, no big deal, if it was hundreds some would return it.

I am really hard up right now, so I have to put morals aside and feed my family.

The person looked pretty wealthy, chances are it would go unnoticed anyway.

Excuses on and on.

The long and short of it is, people KNOW it is morally wrong, but having a chance to get away with it and nobody looking at you negatively for it, all morals get thrown aside.

I have to agree with you, I'd take advantage of it and sell it off too, in fact I'd find eth most expensive place for gas in town so I could make the most off of it.

Where are all the Americans that believe in free enterprise, survival of the fittests etc?
They seem to scurry under the furniture when it comes to taking the moral high ground, in theory anyway.

I'm curious about something. Has the US ever WON a war?

You know, everytime someone says the US lost the Vietnam war I'm reminded of something that happened back in the early 1980's. I was working at a place that had hired a Vietnam refugee. He was a whiny, cry-baby type and we got into a spat about something one day. He babbled something about the US having lost the Vietnam war. And a thought ocurred to me. I live about 50 miles from where I was born and raised and I am free to go back there any time I wish to. In fact, I was free to do anything I wanted to do so long as it wasn't illegal. On the other hand, he had fled his birth place and homeland under gun fire and could never go back. To me it didn't sound like the US lost the war, it sounded more like South Vietnam lost the war.

Just a thought.

I really could care less.

If some manager isn't responsible enough to check his work and screws up setting prices, so be it. I get cheaper gas. He gets fired.

If I mess up coding a system and it screws up the tracking for a public agency, I'd be fired. Is he any better that I have to be the good samaritan?

Welcome to the real world of employment, my friend. You botch up your job bad, you get fired.

Or are you telling me that manager shouldn't be expected to do his/her job right and check their work quality since they're maybe a $35k a year convenience store manager, but that software company should be held to a different standard??

My product costs money. If my company charges less for work than they should and no one catches it here...does that mean our clients are required to come to us and do our job and correct our billing because we're white collar professionals and make more than $15 an hour??

The answer: no. They are only required to pay what we bill them for. No if, no and, no but.

I say tough luck, convenience store. Lesson learned for them, IMHO. Be more thorough next time in performing the job you're paid to do.

[i]It doesn't matter, as long as they think they're 'sticking it to the man'. They don't realize that every dollar they take away from the man is a dollar he can't use to provide someone else with a job. (and they accuse us of being self-centered???) [/i]

Maybe "the man" should have pulled his head out of his a$$ and did his job right?

What happened to that personal responsibility thing, Tony?

Q.E.D.

[i]What happened to that personal responsibility thing, Tony? [/i]

... does not relieve others of theirs.

For example, someone leaving their keys in their car does not mean it's OK for someone else to steal it.

?Yes I did notice that you were a bottom feeding rodent, if that was your point.?

Ratbag that is one of the nicest names I have seen you use
No that was NOT my point
You misunderstood AGAIN

?As for your brilliant support of your assertion, "gee the government covers that up so you will never see the truth."
What a crock! Yes, I'll agree that teh government tries to cover up most of what they do. I just didn't realize that you were workgin in such close relation to the government that you are actually advised of the real intent that most of America is not allowed to hear, my goodness you must be impotent.?

LOL impotent (another hidden insult)
Good one that
Thanks for the laugh

You are not very good at this are you?
Poor comprehension skills
Bad spelling
Arrogant
Do you ever wonder why you get so little respect?

?You do realize that now you have given up the Caramilk secret that they will have to kill you, right? For someone with such inside information, you certainly are a security risk to the nation, perhaps they shouldn't have trusted a kiwi.?

Well my government trusts kiwis all the time
Could be fun to see if the Canadian government would accept my job application
I would have to try for citizenship first
No forget it
Not interested in living in the same country as you

?That's not a defense it is an opinion, one with so much bias that it isn't worthy of further consideration. I wish you were around when teh Iraq war was being discussed, we had some pretty clever and knowledgeable Americans here that would have quickly corrected your clueless views of reality. Originating from me, you wouldn't believe it if it was broadcast on every global news station in teh world anyway, that's teh way your narrow minded bias seems to work for you.?

If you don?t like what I write don?t read it

Bias? Were did you get that from
Sure I don?t like politicians
I thought you felt the same
Does that make you biased?

The Iraq war
I have already said the Iraq war should have never happened
What would be the point in discussing it?
Yes there was some very clever north Americans discussing it
None of them were you
You just looked stupid

The rest of what you wrote is just a meaningless rant
And an attempt to start one of those stupid off topic flame wars

Get a clue dummy

Re You are both right

?But Saddam himself is/was never your biggest threat, in fact he was pretty good at keeping the radical fundamentalists in check and keeping HIS people under HIS rule.?

Isn?t it good how politics and justice have very little in common

Saddam started the war the
The JUST thing would have been his death
Then maybe the people of Kuwait may have had some justice
Not to mention the families of the Iraq solders who died

Do you understand that?
Or is it more important for you
To argue about facts and politics
In an off topic argument about history

and i trust most people to do right by me if i make a critical mistake about as far as i can throw a humvee.

Sorry. I am not "my brother's keeper" anymore. If people can screw up my air with their idiot spending on overpolluting vehicles/equipment/appliances, can screw my fiscal well being with market manipulation of oil and food, etc...i have all rights to screw the world back...and harder...

just as long as it doesn't break a law...right? As long as they can't sue me for my money, then I'm a-ok.

So welcome to my new world.

I think plenty.

And, I think that having been someone who always tried to give people the benefit of the doubt has led me to one conclusion: I should never have trusted people to be thinking, conscientious, respectable, or dependable.

There are a few good seeds, but it seems to me that the majority of my fellow citizens in America tend to think "me me me". So if it's gonna allow me to step on them, get ahead of them, and give me the road to where I want to be in 10 years...then...so be it...I'm gonna play hardball.

Someone screws up and I can benefit from it, I'm gonna benefit (as long as it doesn't involve breaking the law).

Someone doesn't work as hard as me, I'm gonna point it out and work harder and step on them to get what I want.

I'll get further ahead in life by playing the game better than anyone else, rather than having to think or feel anything.

So game on.

The current job made me a lot of promises that they haven't kept (including to make sure that my project timeline allowed for a week vacation which is supposed to be next week...and isn't going to happen).

So since I'm in my probationary period, they are in theirs too. And, I have recruiters call me 2-3 times a week asking me to look at their open positions.

Right now, I'm looking at 3. 2 are very promising.

If I find a better situation with better/same money, their probation period here is over and I will move on to better pastures.

Now the only question is: Do I give 2 weeks notice or not? I don't think they'll give it to me, so I might not.

Game is on.

You all might want to take a look at this article:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975-1,00.html

Some Excerpts:
"But several new studies show the biofuel boom is doing exactly the opposite of what its proponents intended: it's dramatically accelerating global warming, imperiling the planet in the name of saving it. Corn ethanol, always environmentally suspect, turns out to be environmentally disastrous. Even cellulosic ethanol made from switchgrass, which has been promoted by eco-activists and eco-investors as well as by President Bush as the fuel of the future, looks less green than oil-derived gasoline."

"Deforestation accounts for 20% of all current carbon emissions. So unless the world can eliminate emissions from all other sources--cars, power plants, factories, even flatulent cows--it needs to reduce deforestation or risk an environmental catastrophe. That means limiting the expansion of agriculture, a daunting task as the world's population keeps expanding. And saving forests is probably an impossibility so long as vast expanses of cropland are used to grow modest amounts of fuel. The biofuels boom, in short, is one that could haunt the planet for generations--and it's only getting started."

"The environmental cost of this cropland creep is now becoming apparent. One groundbreaking new study in Science concluded that when this deforestation effect is taken into account, corn ethanol and soy biodiesel produce about twice the emissions of gasoline. Sugarcane ethanol is much cleaner, and biofuels created from waste products that don't gobble up land have real potential, but even cellulosic ethanol increases overall emissions when its plant source is grown on good cropland. "People don't want to believe renewable fuels could be bad," says the lead author, Tim Searchinger, a Princeton scholar and former Environmental Defense attorney. "But when you realize we're tearing down rain forests that store loads of carbon to grow crops that store much less carbon, it becomes obvious."

It?s like this

Things need to be as bad as they can possibly be before human beings will make the change needed

At this time things are not bad enough

The only way they will give up their cars
Is if they are too scared to drive them
Fear that someone will put a bullet through the windscreen is one thing that might work

But we can hope they wake up before then

are way up. I am a single parent making $20,000 a year, two children in college. I live in the most depressed state in America and am up to my armpits in debt, trying to make ends meet. I agree with everything you say. It is impossible to live without 2 salaries, and our MOST precious resource, our children, are suffering for it. I have no idea where help should come from but know that politicians are not the answer.
Anybody heard of Boone Pickens' wind farm?