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Global Warming? - Conservatives' Minds Aren't Closed

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by des949penn 1 view

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

Attached is a link to the current cover story of National Review. As noted therein, many conservatives/libertarians are prepared to acknowldege the issue, though the link to human activity and the speed and long-tem effects of the phenomenon remain open to a great deal of speculation. Additional links to commentary and a previous article are also included.

What many conservatives do view with a great deal of skepticism, however, is the sudden and unquestioning embrace of this issue by the "Popular Left", whose interests are clearly focused more upon income redistribution and creation of another layer of environmental bureaucracy, as opposed to a serious study, guided by a relatively small group of recognized experts with no obvious ideological axe to grind.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/19/902907/NR%20%20%20Digital%20Article.pdf

http://sinclairsmusings.blogspot.com/2007/06/jim-manzi-on-global-warming.html

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmViY2Y3YzY1YmVkYTg4NjczODhkYWU1Mjg1YzhjMTI=

18 replies

by locrian_lyric

It's cyclical.

65 million years ago anatarctica was a temperate zone.

two questions:

Is it bad?
Can anything be done if it is?

by dr dij

The only planet that is vaguely close to the sun enuf for solar activity to be an effect in this case is Mars. And mars has an atmosphere that is a tiny fraction of the earth's and different makeup.

But I guess you know that and didn't have a valid argument.

It appears manmade warming is ON TOP of any cyclical trends and that they are MUCH SLOWER.

The national review is right. Conservatives (and the left) need to separate the event (global warming) and the actions we take and who takes them. the event doesn't presuppose ANY PARTICULAR cure. There are alot of things that could be done on a collective level (such as solar shades or orbiting power stations) or country (reduced use and fuel efficiency reqts or taxes) and even individual level - reduce carbon dioxide emissions for example (if enuf individuals).

The deal is that even if you agree that global warming is real it is very peculiar to blow off as being manmade because you don't agree with possible solutions. 100 year ago there was no TV or internet or weather satellites or climate modeling. we did not evolve knowing if we caused global warming. Get with it and the evidence will show you it is real..

Now propose something that you'd agree with politically, or say that you don't care because you have no kids and you'll be dead before it gets serious. (it will probably get serious while most reading here are alive tho)

by absolutely

I have felt the temperature difference due to a total solar eclipse. We are most definitely close enough to the sun that its activity can also be a contributing factor. Most definitely.

by locrian_lyric

attack the person rather than answer the questions or address the point.

I usually enjoy your input, but you seem to be blinded by an ideology on this one that precludes any discusion in a rational fashion.

BTW, as to what I 'obviously' don't know. I have been studying astronomy since my preteen years, have held my own in a discussion with one of the scientists on the Hubble project and have more than a rudimentary knowledge of meteorology as well.

Please don't make assumptions about people.

by tonythetiger

[i]and what would that have to do with earth?[/i]

we ARE warmed by the same star....

[i]the event doesn't presuppose ANY PARTICULAR cure.[/i]

nor does it presuppose that any 'cure' is necessary, or that it would be effective!

More evidence for the BAD GUYS

http://tinyurl.com/3ccjcg

by deepsand

forcing.

If you're going to portray your statements as being firmly grounded in Science, then you need to 1st get [b]all[/b] of the pertinent facts & principles, and present your statement(s) in context.

by dadspad

First, are you a fan of Jim Manzi? All the articles seemed to be from him.

Do we need to fix many things in the environment? There should be no questions on that. But am I crazy, are most of the arguments that were used to clean up the environment the same as the solutions for fixing global warming? Can something as vastly complicated as a global environment have a smoking gun (CO2) that kills the planet? Yes, I realize that at singular event could do this, but CO2 is an integral part of our planet. Everything affects everything else.

But maybe I am delusioned. :D
You will have to ask my wife, she is the expert on my sanity. :^0

by des949penn

My point is simply this: the embrace of the global warming issue by the Popular Left, for reasons obviously other than mere scientific inquiry, has fueled the backlash among those who can see through the more superficial entreaties. In the process, a potentially serious problem is getting neither the scrutiny nor the plan of action, if one is needed, that it deserves.

by deepsand

And, as noted below, you've raised a very carefully chosen single variable out of context.

Was this by deliberate choice, or owing to ignorance?

One could well argue that your having so done is the mark of an ideologue!

by deepsand

you now know that Solar radiative levels are but part of the equation.

Please stop pretending that said influx is all that matters.

by deepsand

By repeatedly drawing attention to one factor, to the exclusion of others, one gives the impression to the readers that other factors are either non-extant or insignificant.

One cannot & should not assume that the reader is both aware of & understands all of the relevant related factors.

Failure to mention is an ancient debating tactic, one that is very much alive & well practiced here at TR, both by design & with no thought given. It is a practice that does not well serve for attaining a common understanding.

by tonythetiger

the connection between other planets warming and earth warming. None of the other factors present on earth could possibly affect the climate on other planets, so the "[u][b]only[/b][/u] factor" I mentioned was, in fact, the only correct answer as far as I know.

by tonythetiger

"solar radiation" mentioned in that post. Are you sure your [i][b]implication detector[/i][/b] is working OK? Maybe you should think about having it looked at :)

by deepsand

Considering the time you spent in other discussions re. global warming, pleading ignorance here just won't work.

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