Infidelity

... let this be the Friday Yuk?

of keyloggers and such out there.

we used one last year on my kids pc, but i can't remember name of it..they all pretty much do the same thing though, some just a wee bit more fancy than others.

Spector. It runs about $50 USD.

It does the keystroke logging.

It does screen capture, you set resolution and frequency.

It captures all emails.

It captures all IM conversations.

It can email you remotely, with emails/IM messages, or when certain key words are typed.

This software went a long ways to helping me get through my divorce. I told the ex what I had and she decided it was best to just walk away than have her lovers wife get a care package.

(some that have been around for more than a few years might remember my getting a divorce discussion. Also got a lot of help here in the form of advice and support.)

that when open and honest discussion fails to solve your problem, the relationship is over.

Now, I'm not judging anyone that would do this, but I personally think you are either:

Simply prolonging the inevitable causing yourself more heartache and pain. Besides, knowing doesn't make you feel any better once it's over.

or..

Setting your relationship up for failure in the event that your partner discovers what you've done (whether they are guilty or not). Not to mention setting a precedence for dishonesty if it turns out your partner isn't cheating.

Relationships are built on trust.

When the trust is gone, 99.999% of the time the relationship is already over.

Attempt the open and honest communication bit. If that fails, walk away with your dignity intact without having to stoop to their level of dishonesty.

I want to thank all of you, for taking the time to answer to my question. This is a horrible thing that none should go thru. But that how it's, just another bump on my way.

If you have someone with something going on the side, when asked about it, they will generally say they don't.

Some people have these with no intention of ever leaving their spouse (which was the case of my ex-wifes lover, who is still with his wife).

It is always best to know, rather than suspect.

And a spouse that is a scumbag can get away with a lot, for a long time, without ever being caught.

On the other hand, sometimes a good spouse can do something that makes you say, hmmmmm. Everyone goes through rough times, and people deal with it differently.

In my case, the ex's initial affair was already over and she was trying to get the guy back before I even suspected a thing. I loved and trusted her, and often offered to stay home on the weekend with the twins so she could go out with her friends, just to get her out of the house after being home with the boys all week while I was at work.

With the majority of marriages being disposable from the start, trust comes in the form of a pre-nup.

My ex-husband listened to heavy metal. That's it. Then one day, he told me that he loved that Aretha Franklin song "Who's Zoomin' Who", (Which, by the way, is a horrible song by a terrific artist), I knew at that moment that he was cheating on me. It took a few weeks to confirm, but I was right.

My ex changed what she listened to at least three times while we were married....

:0

Something best left uncovered at this time. :(

It is of MY opinion that most of the people with this attitude have not been on the receiving end of this type of activity.

It is easy to sit back and say you would this or that, but being the one in that position really changes all the "well, I would just...."

It is better to know and move on.

you are right about that. It's over now, and you're better off just not knowing any more.

Better off now, aren't you?

Although, having gone through something similar, I always get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I hear about others going through this. It's truly horrible and I feel a great deal of sympathy for anyone who has to go through this type of ordeal.

Best thing is to just keep looking forward and not allow yourself to get bogged down in despair and bitterness. That does NOTHING to help you heal.

Because it doesn't do any good, I don't dwell on things or try to find anything else out, either past or present.

On the other hand, I never let myself forget exactly who and what I am dealing with in all of my dealings with my boys female-parental-unit.

And yes, it sucks when others have to go down that same road and there is little you can do to help them avoid the crash at the end.

Ok, so "no better than them" was too much.

It's still wrong.

I'm not advocating throwing anything away. I'm just advocating using different means (open and honest discussion with your partner) to get to the root of the problem.

I would suggest that a relationship that cannot talk through a simple "distraction" is probably not all that healthy to begin with.

I don't mean to be judgmental by my posts (I know it's coming off that way and I apologize). I don't know everyone's personal situation so I can't very well say what would be most appropriate in each case (e.g. I didn't have any children with my ex...if my wife and I were to divorce I would do everything in my power to ensure I got my son).

Having said that...with the caveat that there are, of course, exceptions to every rule, I stand by what I have said.

I know what it feels like, (never again) but still... just the thought of buggy spy-ware on my computer... creepy. -d

When:
1) It is YOUR computer. (You're correct on that)
2) It's a community computer. As in the household computer. (If access is un-controled, it might not hold up though)
3) The presense of / or exsistance of a Court Order.
But now days, it seems all rules are out the window anyway, so I guess anything goes. -d

In the process of those things I, of course didn't do, and naturally have no knowlege of, I remember 1 thing: "If a man's (women now too, I guess) spouse can't trust him (her) NO-one can. (Ever.!.) Seen it proven true far too many times :( -d

you are still showing the same lack of trust.

It is rare that without some kind of proof, a cheating spouse will confess just because you ask them. They are now put in the position of lying to your face about it, instead of just sneaking around behind your back and hiding it from you.

Now why would I think that?
See my reply to JD below. It used to be a good rule of thumb. The diference is when done right, you'll get facts. Other wise it's done on emotions, and usually is looked at as hearsay, he said / she said.
At the very least get a (this hurts) Lawer. Use a licenced, bonded Private Dective (They are covered by laws, and insurance) It does make a difference between a Court Case, and a messy time in the Courts. -d

One was from Dawg. The best revenge is to live a better life without them than you did with them.

Second (especially if there are kids involved) divorce does not end a relationship, it just changes it. That person will be a part of your life until the day you (or hopefully her) die because of the shared investment in the family bond with the kids.

You don't have to like them or be their buddy, but you shouldn't walk around hating them. That is just stupid and childish.

I am 'set in MY ways' and changing to different ways is harder. I am adjusting... but it's not going to happen overnight. After all, it took me 50 years to get the way I am :)

[i]Let me tell you, it is easier to get divorced than it is to sell a house.[/i]

The vows you took are between you, your spouse, and the almighty. Nobody else should be involved in the decision.

I've come to the opinion that the government especially should not be involved in marriage OR divorce. They want "separation of church and state"? I say "In for a penny, in for a pound"! No more marriage penalty. No more joint tax returns. No more alimony.

it is only liberal weenies that believe in the myth of Separation of Church and State as an actual part of our laws and Constitution (as YOU well know already).

If it has been shown that kids that are not from a "broken" home are more successful, how is it not a good idea to reward people for not breaking their home?

I do agree that all alimony should be abolished, retroactively. If women want to be treated equally, (as well they should) then it goes for the good as well as the bad, not picking and choosing where they wish to be equal or not.

Child support, only if it is a fair arraignment on the custody. Thankfully the days of deciding on who is the better parent based on who has the vagina are over.

Can you believe that when I went to court, with equal custody (week with me, weak with her) the court still wanted to give her some of my money? Why? They get funding based on how many cases they over see.

It's lawyers, therapy for the kids, isolation, drinking/drug/weight problems, mutual hate, loss, feeling abandoned, feeling cheated, and a long process leading to final separation, followed by starting to date again. Knowing that you could screw up just as badly the second time, and knowing that you can't trust your judgement, and that whatever you believe, it could all change in an instant.

What would you rather live? All of the above, or maybe a lie?

This morning when I checked about the ?Infidelity? question, I was very surprised to see that the subject had 45 messages to it.
I see it?s a subject that raises many of questions and concern on any relationship. Every one of you is correct in your own opinions, and obviously some of us have live it and know that it?s a painful situation that is never kept a flow in the exchange of vows.

Some people don?t know how critical this is until you actually live it.

They use pay phones...... :0

they are chatting to me, the Don!

Yes, I have friends in the meat world to talk to, but NONE that had been through a divorce, so they had no frame of reference to relate to me with, nor any real advice based on past experiences.

On here, I had hundreds of people from around the world, giving both the male and female point of view. Some were supportive, some would give tips on how to handle situations, both with the EX and with my kids. Kept me focused on what was best for my boys.

Another thing that it did from people sharing their stories, I realized that while my little world was crumbling around me, it could have been so much worse.

Like I said, my friends have not been through this, and so were not as much of a help in that area. I am the only one in my group of friends to get a divorce.

it's hypocritical to say that government and the church should be kept separate, yet maintain that the government should have any say in marriage, or to treat married people and non-married people differently.

[i]Child support, only if it is a fair arraignment on the custody.[/i]

[b]Physical[/b] custody should be equal in law, unless the parents jointly agree to a different arrangement.

[i]Thankfully the days of deciding on who is the better parent based on who has the vagina are over.[/i]

It's getting better, but they're not over.

[i]Can you believe that when I went to court, with equal custody (week with me, weak with her) the court still wanted to give her some of my money? Why? [/i]

Theory is that the children have the same standard of living no matter where they are. they use a percentage of total income. For example, if you make 500 a week and she makes 400 a week, you would pay 100 to her, and she would pay 80 to you. The difference, $20, would go to her. It even changes should you remarry and your new wife works. In that case, she is considered to be paying half of the mortgage and utilities, so an estimated amount is added to your income for the purpose of calculating the amount to be paid

[i]They get funding based on how many cases they over see.[/i]

Not exactly... it's a percentage of the take :)

like a good smack, right? :x

The current U.S. divorce rate:

The media frequently reports that 50% of American marriages will end in divorce. This number appears to have been derived from very skimpy data related to a single county or state. However, it appears to be reasonable close to the probable value. The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue. However, that is only a projection and a prediction."

"Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/

[i]The current U.S. divorce rate: The media frequently reports that 50% of American marriages will end in divorce.[/i]

see

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=232996&messageID=2297627

[i]If it has been shown that kids that are not from a "broken" home are more successful, how is it not a good idea to reward people for not breaking their home?[/i]

It is not a good idea to reward behaviors that are merely [b]correlated statistically[/b] to success, because, for the case of correlation coefficient 0.9, such systematic rewarding means that the 10% who did not succeed, receive rewards as if they did. It is a good idea to reward success -- one's own success, not the success of people who look, sound, smell, feel, taste (!) like successful people, but don't actually contribute to success.

OK, JD, have fun with that!

to chastise you for using different units of measure when talking about the same thing, at the same time.

Failure to convert your .9 into a fraction, or the failure to convert your 10% to a decimal, gets you marked down. B-)

As for the systematic rewarding, it is for the attempt to create an environment with a greater chance of success [i]( .9 by your number )[/i]

The problem is, being married or not is not reflective of your ability to be a parent.

There is currently a big push in Detroit to fight the negative effects of having a fatherless home.

Besides, the current trend is we reward people who are NOT successful by giving them tax credits and support that is not given to people that are in fact successful. Kind of counter-productive, wouldn't you say?

And of course, 98% of all constipated people don't give a crap.

"And of course, 98% of all constipated people don't give a crap."

:^0

But seriously, when I learned statistics, I was taught to express correlation using coefficients, 0 - 1.0. I referred to percentages in a slightly different context. Thanks for noticing.

Finally, in response to "the point" you're barely hinting at:

Do you tell your boys that if everybody else is doing it, it's OK if they do so also? Because your argument in favor of tax credits for marriage just told me that you're OK with setting that example for your kids.