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IT Consultants or do it yourself???

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The company I am working for is trying to get caught up technically with the 21st Century. We are looking at a total upgrade of all hardware and software to include replacing all 20 workstations with XP Pro and adding 2 Windows 2003 servers. They are wanting VPNs in the owner's and CEO's houses as well as VPN to a location 2 hours away. The computers along with all the hardware come to $59,981 if I was to buy it from Dell. Then I would have to configure it and install it without assistance. I had a consulting company come in and consult myself along with the CEO on everything along with full support for installing and configuring EVERYTHING. Their quote came in at $60,702. The CEO asked if I could do it all and I think I have the knowledge, but have never done a complete IT refresh, just bits and pieces at a time. Is $800 worth NOT having the IT consulting company come in and do everything for me? I feel $800 is well worth the money to have the IT consulting company come in and take full responsiblity for this transition as well as they would be able to accomplish this task faster than myself (I would have to keep running the current network). The CEO just sees the dollar ammount. How can I get him to understand the importance of the consultants coming in to carry out the transition? Or should I take this project on and chalk it up for a learning experience? I am the only IT person for the companies two locations. Thanks

Rocky

150 replies

by marco schumacher (at biznesslegion)

I don't have a specific answer as to which option is better, but I wanted to check whether you had accounted for your time to plan the specific work with the consultants (e.g., do they know where to get the data to port from old to new systems) and to supervise what they're doing (to ensure that security is not compromised and that you get whatever information you need to run the new systems from the first minute).

by trockii

Yes I would be working right beside them during the install, supervising them. However we haven't sat down with them to discuss anything further than just the initial planning/recommendation step. The CEO is dragging his feet about whether or not to have them do all the setup or if he wants me to do it.

by youraveragemanager

What Value is Added for the Price Paid?

Admit to the CEO that you can do a darn good job of it, but the profit center management needs to understand the risks they accept when you do a good job.

They accept that you have not experienced these new PC components, the XP OS, or the brand and flavors of VPN, over your local and regional telecom providers. Each individual component brings its own set of unadvertised problems, and only found by experiencing the problem.

Experiencing the new and unknown problem starts the process of resolution. When individual PC based problems are resolved, you may also need to deal with the problems that arise due to product component incompatibilities. In fact, these are most difficult thus time consuming to discern and resolve. In other words, the number of PCs and locations are obviously physically doable, but your job is more than arms and legs. You want to minimize the disruption and maximize the benefit of the change project.

The $800 pays for additional arms and legs, and that alone decreases the time required to physically install. You will encounter problems (if any) sooner. The value to the organization is realized in the consultants hard won past experience. Someone else paid the price in time. They have actually done this before, encountered and solved the problems (you verify this) and this knowledge along with their experience along the lines of expected future problems can be passed onto you to benefit the company.

If your problem resolution cycle on one issue takes 8 hours, can the profit centers afford the associated costs? You will not know how many issues will arise until implementation starts. You know that you can resolve all problems given time. There is no way for you to know how much time, but with everyone?s patience, we will meet the objective. If the management objective limits the implementation period (the time) then lets allocate the $800 to that time constraint so that particular objective is not at risk.

Thus, your time is spent on managing, learning, and teaching, and all the other aspects that this change brings to light.

By the way, will at least one of the consultants be there for at least one full work day following physical implementation? Have the users been trained-introduced to the new OS and desktop? Do they know who to call, and what tests they need to perform and when they are scheduled to do the tests (can also be a training exercise)? Have you recruited from the different groups and locations persons to serve as the key contacts? Will the consultants include a two-week administrator contact serving as your phone support?

It goes to time and quality. What if we never use it and all goes very smoothly? Remember Y2K went smoothly for most of IT due to the efforts before 2000. When little or nothing failed at or after Y2K then there was strange disappointment, people asking did we spend more than we should have? Well, that is an odd response to meeting an objective. Perhaps if those that ask that type of question would care to test their aversion to risk they can remove the spare tire from the auto for a week. If they are not willing to do that then how can they rationalize risking the source of their income? $800 is analogous to the paying the cost of the small funny looking spare tire. I never thought about asking for removal before punching to save on costs. Nor do I remove my spare to create an odd risk aversion thrill.

If they see no problem and assume the responsibility that they can tolerate the risk aversion thrill then by all means do save the $800 to cover the spilled drinks at the office holiday party.

Please notice that any dollar amount can be plugged into this discussion to match the scale of any organization. Business is business, even the big boys will occasionally make poor decisions. But, it is your job to let advise them so that we can look back as we proceed down the decision path.

by jrisner

You should do it yourself. If you want to ensure that the data is copied over correctly and that the systems are setup the way you want them then you should do it yourself. It will also prove to the company that you are worth your salt as an IT Person. Try checking out the automation features in setting up Windows XP and MS Office, Ghost is also very good for doing rollouts. I have seen several times were Consulting Companies will try to come in and put their people in place by selling the CFO on the fact that they can do it better, cheaper than having onsite staff. Show the company that you are an asset and that you will not run for help everytime there is a project.

by gralfus

Bring it back to terms the CEO will understand. The Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) of this project is a lot more than the stated costs. If you take on the project yourself, and get stuck at any point, what will the cost of downtime be? If it takes longer than projected (and it will), what will the cost be of not meeting deadlines?

Conversely, if the contractor is hired you will more likely meet your deadlines and have the job done by experienced professionals, and have them to consult with if problems arise. And if they don't meet the stated timeline, there can be legal recourse. He should see the wisdom in using the consultant (though they tend to go over budget also, make sure you have a cap on the money).

In my humble opinion, I wouldn't change everything all at once. I would do it in chunks and verify that the chunks are working before moving on.

by trockii

Thanks for the advice. I can definitely use any and all advice being as I am only 25 with only 3 years administration experience. By no means do I claim to know it all. That's why I have Tech Republic as my homepage. Great source of knowledge. This is my first big hurdle to deal with. I am certified in Windows 2000 administration. Hopefully 2003 Server will fit into my repertoire rather smoothly.

by computer.services

Hi -- I am an IT director of a multi-departmental site with two other staff members to help me (collectivly we have about 40 years of experience in the IT field;we also have plenty of Departmental help. Nonetheless, I would definitely go with the "consultants" option -- the $800 delta is peanuts when you consider the pluses of having extra eyes/hands/expertise available especially when you consider the long term positive advantages of providing your company with a parallel support mechanism

You will obviously need to work with them, and I agree with a prior posting that the job should be broken into chunks -- especially when working with additional outside parties.

(okay -- the blunt way of responding is to simply say that your boss is out to lunch if he/she thinks $800 in the instance that you describe should be a deciding factor) -- and I would think that if you are only 25 with 3yrs experience you are definitely NOT qualified to take this on alone -- heck -- no one should take on any IT project alone:)

by jeff_spock

Ahh, nothing like a nice clich? first thing in the morning.

1. How many days will it take you?
2. What is your annual, fully loaded cost to the company per work day? (You can use 220 days/year, and fully loaded cost is usually around 1.2-1.4 times your salary.)
3. Does the product of these two numbers work out to more than $800? If so, the vendor is cheaper, not to mention the opportunity cost of the tasks you are not getting done.

That's one approach. Another is to view the TCO from the point of view of hardware/software guarantees and replacements, or after-sales support (typically you can get something like three months of support for free). These also have a value, in hard and soft dollars.

Good luck!

by trockii

I was guess-timating at it taking me about a full month to get the whole network up and running at full capacity, IF i don't hit any big snags. I am the only one here and when a problem arises I have to stop the new and work with the old.

by nemesis"t"warlock

I cannot believe for a second that this consultancy operation will want to configure ALL of your equipment for you for $800. Dell is direct hardware, I assume perhaps you are not getting Dell kit from these guys and is that where their margin comes from and perhaps not getting Dell kit is why your CIO is unsure? If it is exactly the same kit, then they are being unrealistic and you should look very carefully at what they are promising or you might end up with future consulting charges. That cost just sounds to me like a charge for them unpacking the boxes for you!

by trockii

For me to purchase directly from Dell.com all the equipment $59,981.55. The consulting company buys strictly from dell and gets a 10% discount. Equipment for them costs $54,907.90. For them to install, configure, and test everything adds another $5795.00 equaling $60,702.90. There's the numbers. The consulting company has already agreed if need be to just let us buy the equipment through them and then let me set it all up. The CEO has seen all the numbers. He has decided to let me use the consulting company.

by hammaren9

Sounds like they are pushing the Dell white box stuff. I would find out, if it matters to you.

by hammaren9

As a integrator and Dell reseller, I would be very surprised if this is Dell. If so, they are blowing smoke. The margins on Dimensions are almost non-existent versus going direct, and Optplexes are not much better. Servers a little better than that. Based on experience, figure on $300 per PC setup time, and $2-3K for the server, assuming no application setup. This means install, configure, apply all patches, antivirus, adware filtering, and anything else that doesn;t come up until you get in there and find out what is really going on.

Ask them for a install quote only, and you'll know. The fact is, that if they screw up, you will be in the gunsight, along with the consultants.

by graeme

It's splitting hairs - but it is also not.....

Firstly there is nothing wrong with Dell Whiteboxes (actually the usual Dell Gray) - we resell them all the time - they are pretty close in intent to Optiplexs.

But there are a couple of points about them that can lead to confusion:

1. They are NOT Dell machines and Dell say so. By that I mean - what is in the box are Dell components, built on Dell's line and HARDWARE warranted by Dell through the reseller - but there is no Dell badge on the box. (See below regarding warranty)

2. If the consultant is selling you a Dell white box they are specifically not supposed to sell them as "Dell" in name, advertising or contract. It is in their contract with Dell. Personally we just tell the client that OUR machines are private label machnies built for us by Dell. But our spec sheets, literature and contracts never mention Dell.

If the consultant is bulk buying then they may be getting more than 10% which is where they make their margin. Depends on their, volume, the state of the lunar cycle, whether or not the Red Sox won the world series and on occassional pricing mistakes that show up on their Dell web page channel - which when they happen we take maximum advantage of.

Crucially a difference with Dell white boxes is the terms of the warranty - the warranty is performed by the consultant - not a Dell tech. Dell provide the consultant the parts - but the consultant does the work (which is why they make their margin). Dell's standard parts warranty is a year and they will sell the consultant a two or three year extension. What are YOU getting from the consultant and what is their promised turn around time?

And all that said - in our experience Dell Whiteboxes have a statistically unmeasurable failure rate - meaning we have swopped out one hard drive in 300+ boxes over two years. We ate the cost of the labor to do it and the tiome to run the client's re-install disks and backup recovery.

by trsnell

Agreed, $ 800.00 for what? If the gear is not clearly itemized and to be tier-1 brand, you're going to get no name clones. Only addition to make is that the consultancy is responsible for the people doing the deployment. HR is their problem. Often these guys pick up people at the bus station for $ 25.00/hr or less and hand them a screw driver. Went through the same thing with a major consultancy some time ago and had to do all of the follow-up and damage control myself.

by register

I think this is a pretty simple decision IF your career is IT administration/management, do it yourself. To find a GOOD consultant is hit or miss (1 out of 100) and YOU would naturally take more pride in your work being that?s it?s your environment. The other thing is, it?s only 20 workstations and VPN?s are very, very easy if you take a few minutes to understand them and read the manuals for whatever equipment you decide to use.

Here are a few suggestions for this install:

Ghost Corporate Edition-You create a master (system) image(s) and simply deploy them directly over the network. Let?s say you only needed on image, to make a good image it take about 6-8 hours to install the os, apps, etc. After this is completed it takes all of 20 minutes to configure ghost and if you wanted to get fancy use the PXE function. It will take about 90-120 minute to deploy the other 19 systems which will be identical. Make sure you use and understand scripting and ghostwalker. So if you are a fast learner you could have all 20 systems up and running in 12 hours. You can also use ghost to image existing systems to keep up2date backups and it can even deploy applications. This is one app worth learning.

Norton Corporate Edition Anti-Virus (I don?t care for other solutions personally)-This is an important thing many people miss, CONFIGURE your exclusions. A log file CAN NOT become infected so don?t scan files which are not susceptible. Examples are bmp, bkf, bak, db, dbf, pf, evt, edb, log, stm, mdb, mdf, ldb, ldf, gif, tif, tiff, htm, etc, etc

Netsupport-This is used for remote administration and I feel it?s the best solution on the market. If you have SMS that is fine also but Netsupport is just AWESOME. You can even support your mobile users with the gateway function.

Small Business Server-If you happen to be using small business server rather than using the VPN for file sharing/transfer use the Remote Web Desktop feature. Please be aware I believe this option is ONLY available with SBS. Also, don?t fight the wizards, SBS is made this for a purpose and if you deviate or attempt to manually configure you will end up with more headaches.

If you are willing to take a little time and learn this would be an ideal situation and deployment automation is a lot of fun J Now, if you didn?t want to do the job yourself STILL, just talk the consutant down 800 bucks and your boss will have nothing to argue with. You might appear a bit more expendable though J Whichever way you go, best of luck.

James Hornack

by bfilmfan

Other than the costs of the hardware and software into the project budget cost, it should not be a major enterprise updating 2 servers and 20 workstations.

The only place that he might run into trouble is if he is installing an Active Directory forest and Exchange. The major issue I've seen in this area is installation, configuration and migration can be quite cumbersome and error-ridden if you've never done it yourself.

And I think you should make a logo of your statement of not fighting the SBS wizards. Manually configuring SBS is almost always a guaranteed disaster.One look through the technical forums here will quickly confirm it.

Also when setting up the anti-virus scanner, be sure to exclude the Active Directory's NTDS.DIT. I recently had a client call me that the virus scanner (client installed) had found alerted on a virus "in something called a ntds-something-or-other on the AD server. It quarantined it and now nothing works." ...Several hours later, the client had a properly configured anti-virus solution and was learning how to do an Active Directory Recovery. (Grin)

Another thought for the questioner, is to look at some of the articles here on managing projects and develop ideas on the bast way to handle this upgrade.

by trockii

The company infastructure is Linux based. I have NO experience with Linux or Unix for that matter. The company knew this when they hired me. Right now there's 6 different operating systems from 95-xp along with 2 different linux systems (Mandrake and Red Hat). No active directory in place. Red Hat server in place. Email is handled off site due to only 35 people needing email. Can't justify spending all that money on Exchange for 35 people.

by terry_wright

Unless they are clairvoyant the conslutants will take up more than a little of your time in the preparation for the migration. However the true cost of you performing all the tasks associated with a move of this type will only become apparent to your CEO should your current systems develop problems whilst you are looking elsewhere. He needs to be made aware of the impact on the overall business of your not being able to support the current setup because you're involved in delivery of the new environment. How much money does he lose if you cant ship any goods for a day or cant send out any bills?

by trockii

I don't know exactly, but enough that they want me to come in on Saturday and Sunday to do any installs because they can't have any network gliches during business hours.

by awfernald

A lot of questions pop into my mind reading this question. Some would need more clarification, others to provoke some thought:

1. Does the $61k figure for the consulting company include the hardware? If so, then what hardware are they planning on using, and why is it going to be so much cheaper than stock Dell systems?

2. Will the consulting company be providing on-site support after the installation? or is that your responsibility? If it's your responsibility, then are they going to make sure you have all the information available (i.e. warranty/tech service phone #/documented hardware specs, etc....)

3. Is there an alternative method? i.e. purchasing Dell, then hiring a temp worker to do the install/config under your management OR to perform your current duties while YOU do the install/config.

4. Do the consultants know all the details about your company and the way it does business?

5. Even if you hire the consultants, how much of your time will still be spent "teaching" the consultants how you want it done? how does this compare to the amount of time you would spend doing it yourself?

6. What would the cost differential be if the consultancy did the XP Pro workstations, and you built the new Windows 2003 servers?

7. Who is responsible for the migration plan from your current servers to the new servers? and who is responsible for making sure that it works (probably you)? and are all parties involved in the planning/oversight expert enough in Win '03 technology to ensure the largest chance of success on the migration.

8. I have a lot more questions, however, it's 5 AM here, and been a long night, so if you have any more questions/comments, please post them here or send me an e-mail.

by trockii

I have already broken down the money matters, but here is it again. For me to purchase directly from Dell.com all the equipment $59,981.55. The consulting company buys strictly from dell and gets a 10% discount. Equipment for them costs $54,907.90. For them to install, configure, and test everything adds another $5795.00 equaling $60,702.90. There's the numbers. The consulting company has already agreed if need be to just let us buy the equipment through them and then let me set it all up. The CEO has seen all the numbers. He has decided to let me use the consulting company.

2)I am getting Dell gold service. Any support will be same day 4 hour support.

3)The only two options are ME or consulting company.

4)Yes they have sat down with me and the owners twice and talked about what we need and want.

5)Well I am new to the full spectrum of Network administration. From reading posts on here and consulting company's recommendations I think i will have a nice working network.

6)Not gonna happen. I don't want to try to build anything myself. I can build a computer myself, but I want the server to have a maintance plan along with support other than myself if something goes wrong.

7)We currenly have only one Red Hat server. We hired a software company to write the data to SQL.
I am the ONLY IT person in the company.

Feel free to email me or post. as you can see I try to reply to all the questions and posts.

by digerati

I consider this statement every time I make a purchase, among many other things. At a bare minimum as a consultant, I would charge $100 per computer, 250$ per server plus at least one day at $95/hr. on top of the cost of the equipment. So you must really consider what you are getting for the supposed extra $800. If it is not drastically inferior equipment, then there are hidden costs or the consultant is looking for a full time job.

If I was you and I liked my job, I would take the bull by the horns, pull up my sleeves an get out the books.

by trockii

The consulting company gets a 10% discount through dell. Their labor charges are $5795.00, but the 10% discount takes care of that on the TOTAL cost.

by papap30

What you need to do is to:
1 - Standarize the PC/Laptops models to one.
2 - Create a full installation manually per PC
3 - Create an image using any software available (I recommend Ghost)
4 - Hire some techies in order to help you to install the images on the PCs

This will save you much money and let your CEO understand that you are ready to help him save some money

Pablo

by amcol

Some quick thoughts:

1. I agree with the posts concerning getting what you pay for. I don't think you fully understand what the consultants have proposed (what you've described makes no sense) and you need to do that before making an informed decision. Your CEO has come to the same conclusion, which is one reason why you're getting questioned about this. Get every detail of the consultant's proposal nailed down to a fine degree of specificity, in writing, before you do anything else...including costs, tasks, timeframes, scope, roles and responsibilities, etc. You'll be surprised at how much different the reality will turn out to be, and your CEO will appreciate your diligence and sense of financial responsibility.

2. The $800 differential isn't the issue to your CEO. That's an inconsequential sum. He's testing you, and the best way to respond is by agreeing to step up and do it yourself. If you hire the consultant, why does your CEO need you? With your environment (20 or so users) you have a relatively small, contained situation that you should be able to handle yourself. Construct an achievable project plan, communicate relentlessly to management and the user community, get whatever education you need to pull this off (quickly), then execute. You'll come out the other side with invaluable experience and a solid position in your company. Have the confidence in yourself that you can do this.

by trockii

When I did the original post I didn't have documentation from the consulting company. I just had a money figure. They visited us again and sat down with the owners, CEO, and myself. They gave us a 15 page document explaining all the equipment needed, why it was needed, and cost. They gave us side by side price comparision of them doing it or going it alone. The CEO was happy with this. He asked me to verify their prices by going to dell and buying all the same items. All worked out like the consultants had showed us.

I do have confidence, but didn't want to try to do this by myself. I am used to have other people I can depend on for other ideas (military experiences).

by trockii

Thanks for the info, but anyone that knows about computer charges between $75-$135/hour to do anything. So that's out of the question. I already planned on buying 20 of the same machines this year and within the next 2 years replacing the remaining 15.

by redragtoabull

If its really a matter of $800, that is. This seems like a very small amount for the work you are describing. Could you accomplish this in 8 hours? 16? 32? Even if you had done this start to finish before, $800 is a steal, and honestly, I think there must be something more to the equation.

But having said that... Take the money and run or rather sieze the opportunity to build your resume on your boss' dollar. What a great project for you! There is nothing better than getting paid to get valuable experience! But... as they say... underpromise and over deliver. Make sure your boss is very clear about your concerns upfront (AKA CYA). Especially when it comes to supporting your current production systems. There is no shame (and much deserved respect) in honesty.

Besides, maybe your boss has more faith in you than you do and truly wants you to have the opportunity to grow professionally!

Good luck with the project!

Will Mechem
wmechem@mlgrocksit.com
Member Services Director
people.love.technology
MLG Cooperative Consulting
www.mlgrocksit.com

by rnmpleasant

On the surface this seems to be a ?hands down? decision to go with the consultants but, what you are faced with is the challenge each of us has had to address in our careers (or will have to). Economically speaking, it is possible that the consultants have a volume buying plan that gets them the same hardware for much less than you could acquire directly (thus allowing them to offer just $800 more for the total package). However, it is also possible that they have short bid this as a loss leader (presumably to expand the work order or gain additional business from other projects). Last it is possible that they have given you an ?apples to oranges? choice (very common) where the devil is in the details. In any case, you owe it to your self to do your homework. Likely your CEO either has had past bad experiences with this option or he is simply seeing the short economics ($800 saved could be your raise or bonus or?). The last statement is important because of the relatively small size of your shop (assumed by the size of the purchase). You should develop a practice of building a matrix to lay out the choices side by side. A simple spreadsheet would do. It should feature all the choices you have on the left vertical margin with items of interest along the top. Some of the questions you need to lay out are: Total cost of option (quotes you have); what do each specifically provide (you are looking for make model and builds of the hardware/software); time or length of time this choice will take; risks and contingencies (if you do it and a production failure occurs, you will stop your migration efforts); etc. You get the drift but make sure you have a column for the unit bundled cost (per server and per desktop) with the associated labor built in (other messages have told you the internal labor ratio cost to use for your time) . Having managed several people like you in the past, I can relate to your situation. You should always build this matrix prior to getting any options in the future, then plug in the values, so that you have an objective manner to make a recommendation (or decisions when it becomes your responsibility to do so). Keep in mind that consultants are not out to help or hurt you but out to make money (yours). They will also use talent that is inexpensive as possible (quite possibly using people who know less about the subject than you). It is your duty to make sure only the money required to be expended is, not a penny more. This matrix approach will show that sometimes internally done work is cheaper and better while other times it is not. One key here is that you will likely find the consultants to be reluctant to actually lay out their option exactly as you wish (stick to your guns). Another issue is about your CEO and why he seems to have quickly chosen you to do the work. You should speak to him to get more information. It is possible that he just made a quick decision but probably there are reasons for his inclination and you should try to identify what these are. It will help you grow and become more aligned with him once you figure out what makes him tick. Last, remember that no matter what the choice ends up being, it is a positive for you. Either you will gain the experience of doing it yourself (no doubt making some mistakes along the way) or you will gain the experience of managing a vendor (and the troubles that option inevitably provides).

by trockii

I made a spreadsheet of comparing our needs with what was recommended as well as time needed to implement. Everything the consulting company is doing is what I want so there shouldn't be any surprises.

by trockii

I described the task to the CEO as taking me a month- month 1/2 to accomplish. The consulting company has written down 46 hours for them to complete the task. That's 6 guys from the consulting company working.

by dgraser

If I were in your position, I would approach the CEO with this project as a learning opportunity for you, instead of just contract help for something I'm sure he feels he's paying your for already. If you learn from them now, you will be able to really assess the viability of you doing it on your own in the future. At less than 1.5% of the purchase price, it is fairly cheap insurance for his $60K investment as well.

by trockii

I explained it to the general manager and he signed off on it. The computers and everything else is ordered. Should be here within 3 weeks.

by ctrstrike

Wow $800. That's unheardof and frankly I'd be a little concerned about the quote.

On the other hand I think this is a wonderful opportunity for you. Do your homework, advise your boss that you'd like to tackle this one, and seize the opportunity. If he knows up front of your concerns but also has the confidence and comfort of knowing that it's being performed by his own people you'll be doubly rewarded when its been completed. The bosses praise and your own satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment for a job well done!

Good luck and keep us informed of how things progress.

by praetorpal

Migrating to 2003 from windows 2000 is not supposed to be as intuitive as from NT to 2000; there is a definite learning curve. If you have not tried it already, do you think that this is the time to bet on your abilities?

You have not mentioned security in any way. The most breached VPN's are misconfigured ones; are you ready to take responsibility for that, as well as security of the network, which is pretty well a sitting duck since it is XP,(even with SP2). You are gambling a lot of your future career here if you asked me.

by trockii

All has been considered and that's why we decided to go with the consulting company that my brother-in-law works at. He's a sales manager there. We are trying to keep from a conflict of interest so I have been dealing with others rather than him. They set up VPNs for banks, so security is their expertise. Computers, servers, and switches along with all software needed has been ordered. All that's left is to sit and wait for it to come in.

by trockii

The owners, CEO, and myself sat down and talked. They want this to go as smooth and quickly as possible. They are tired of the Linux network not functioning correctly. They are tired of recieving emails and not being able to open them because they don't have that windows application that the sender used. That's why they hired me. To bring them into the 21st century IT wise. I have only been here one month and they are getting new computers with 17 inch flat panel monitors. They are happy. They don't want to use Red Hat or windows 95 anymore.

by gateso

Hello,

Based upon an $800 difference, IF the integration/consultant is good (reference checks, vendor certifications), their services are conceptually worth 5-10x that delta.

IMHO,
Gates Ouimette

by newby7718

It has been my experience that the IT consultants will not only do the job, but will take over your job too. If you are able, do it yourself!

by michaeltsen

what u were saying is just that u got the wrong consultant. The rule of thumb to engage a 'consultant' is either to do a 'temporary' job or to make sure 'permanent' staff can do their job better. Anything devias from those principals are not consultant, but CONman.

:-)

by david_from_q

I'm sure the boss assumes that you are there to do the job. It's valuable experience for you. I have gained experience through doing just what you have an opportunity to do. I agree on the consultants. You need to see what the boss sees. If the boss can use consultants to get the job done, why does he need you? They will also try to leave the impression that they can do the job better, faster and more economical. That's what they're in business for. Be wary and consider the opportunity you've been given. God bless.

by seau4prez17074

Rocky, I have no doubt that you have a great deal of knowledge in this area, but $800 is nothing when you consider the potential issues that you may run into. Bringing in consultants will help you for a number of reasons. First, if you are like most IT people, you are happy to check your mail, let alone do an entire rollouts and your job. Second, I have been involved in numerous rollouts and no matter how prepared you think you are, you are going to run inot unforseen issues. Having consultants will provide you another resource to avoid long delays. I have been in the field for over five years and sometimes it's best to admit and acknowledge your own limitations. This sounds like one of these instances.

Dan

by michaeltsen

Trock II, too bad I read this late. Actually you just need to give me a call, then I can help you to cut a deal so that you will pay less than if buying direct from Dell. So instead of +$800, your CEO may see -$100. If your company is making profit already, I will help you cut another deal to expense off this engagement instead of Asset acquisition. This way, your CEO will be damn happy in his numbers and you will still get full support from your outsource experts. ;-)

We IT folks need to remember everything else is business too ... see in your boss shoes and you will find its easy to fill his appetide and your own.

by michaeltsen

This reply may be similar to my other stands.

The real 'conflict of interest' occurs when you yourself do not trust your own proffesionalism.

Conflict of interest will occur no matter who you are dealing with but when your own greed level surpass your proffesionalism.

Capitalizing your current contact to pursue a successful business or career is an important aspect. Unfortunately most of us who work for other people tends to avoid 'potential' of causing conflict of interest and therefore miss an opportunity to grow stratgically.

by nath-uk

If the consultants gave you an idea of the effort required to deliver the refresh you can equate that time to a dollar value for your time, plus the cost of providing support cover in your absence, I'm sure this will be more than $800. Provide a comparison of the cost of you supervising and you will see the cost of this much lower than getting involved yourself. At the end of the day though, you have to decide what you want to focus on, do you want to get your hands dirty on a rollout or do you want to expand your project management/supervisory skills????

by bob_steel

Tell your boss you can save $40k by throwing windows out and install Linux in its stead - how about you go halves and pocket $20k each. That would make a difference to the size of your christmas turkey.

by trockii

We currently have Linux network. It was never configured properly and management is tired of it, so they fired the Linux admin and hired me to take over and convert to Windows.

by bob_steel

Sorry Trockii - I should have read all the posts fully. Good luck with the project. I don't know what the rule is called - but it always takes longer and costs more than you've estimated.

Deg.

by bchirwa

I would do it myself if the bill involved is too high, but when you consider the figure $800, it is really a good bargain. First of all, the associated risks remain with the consultants. Should anything hit a snag, you just have to contact them. Another benefit you get is that you will refresh yourself by being around as they work. Another benefit is that you will have successfully implemented the project at the end of the day.

BAC

by kim spence-jones

1. Getting ones head round new kit ALWAYS takes time. More time than you first imagine, in my experience. $800 of hand-holding is cheap, imho.

2. Making a minor misjudgement about how to configure things, at an early stage, can often have significant time implications when you realise it has to be changed, later (or worse, you decide to live with it for ever ...). Someone who has been there before will stand more chance of heading off such mistakes.

Kim

by haylocks

Your DEO might just be cuter than some of the replies indicate. Part of his job is to assess risk to the bottom line and the assets of the company. It's easier and cheaper for him to fire you for getting it wrong, than sue contractors for not getting it right.

However, one plan might be to write an implementation plan, annotating every single piece of technology involved and your familiarity with it and the training required to ensure that you are completely up to speed. Then cost it out. Then get some Project management software (or an Excel time management template from somewhere) and plot out the project. Add to the weaponry your own risk assessment of things which stand a good chance of not going right first time [eg system changeover time](remember Murphy's Law) and then take those three documents to the CEO and discuss them in detail.

You have then done two things (at least)

1/ If he refuses to authorise the $800 extra, you have an "I told you so" document

2/ You have fully informed him of the risks associated with doing it yourself and have therefore protected your self.

You have also probably in your research for the document, uncovered things you hadn't thought of before.

You might also have alerted your CEO to the fact that these things are not necessarily as simple as he thinks. If this exercise in tact genuinely persuades him to your way of thinking, then there'll be two of you behind the project!

Good luck!

by imran

Since you are the only one, try to talk to your CEO about the time it would take to get the job done, which to me is cost again.
Any reasonable person wuld understand you would have to spend more time installing rather than having a team of pros do it, in a shoter time.
We all know that CEO's like numbers!!!! You give them numbers, estimate the down time with cost for each upgrade, then compare it with the pros.
Might work!!!

Imran Lakdawala

by goehms

Trockii,

I say that you are correct. OJT is good, but having the consultant come in makes sense because it brings needed experience to bear, provides accountability without overstressing your skills, and at the price diffference means an excellent opportunity for you to get some collaborative training, preparing you to handle the set of tasks involved in fututure upgrades.
geo

by it_crazy

Go with the consultants. 800 dollars is a mere pitance when it comes to the time and stress that you will go through trying to do it yourself. Get another vendor such as HP/Compaq to give you a quote. They might just be a little bit cheaper which will make your boss happpy. The main thing is to keep on top of what the consultants are doing. Supervise the project as best you can. That way you will be learning and be able to give the boss regular updates. If he can see that you are really on top of things it might have an effect on your paycheck. Good luck with your updates.

by mtucker

Having been the corporate IS Guy by myself and having a staff to do these things you need to look at more than the $$.

What type of hardware warranty do you get with the consultants compared to Dell. If you are getting the 3yr NBD with OS Support from dell and only one year hardware from the others, do it yourself. Consier thehardware quality and warranty.

Dell does have a system config program that if you send them a master they will image the systems for you.

Tell you boss for the number of hours you will spend that consultants are worth it. Do a break down so he can see how long it takes to setup a system and explain how much it takes away from your normal duties.

Good luck

by bfilmfan

I know firms a great deal smaller than yours that justify email based on the fact they have to comply with various laws like HIPAA and SOX. It doesn't appear that this is the case here.

And I'd recommend you pick up a copy of VMware and one of the "learn to Unix" books. A little practice with a virtual Unix server and you'd be up to speed fairly quickly.

by trockii

I am certified in Windows 2000 Administration. All my experience is in Windows. I have already purchased the new machines with Windows XP along with the servers with 2003 server. Nothing against Unix or Linux, but I know windows and that's why i was hired.

by bfilmfan

Do you plan to have the Windows servers as stand alones or you also planning on setting up Active Directory also?

And the learning Linux comment was based on the influx of Linux and Unix into client environments. Plus it never hurts to be multi-OS-lingual.

by apotheon

If this is a Linux-based network, you're in luck. If you learn to manage Linux servers, the actual administration activity is absurdly easy. Managing Unix servers (Linux included) can be among the easiest jobs in the world.

You've just got to learn how to work Linux.

If you're going to be learning Linux, you absolutely must join a LUG (Linux User Group) mailing list. Even though they're populated by people that basically joined up because they like Linux, as opposed to being populated by people paid to provide support, LUGs provide technical support of a quality that Microsoft and other corporate vendors can only dream of, and it's all free.

Heh. Yours is the sort of job I love, it seems.

by breirden

The CEO is thinking small if he thinks the $800 savings is in his favor. Remind the CEO that technology is your business, thinking big is his business. Hire the consultant.

by jbrare

I begin to wonder about the CEO. Could he possibly value your time so litte, or honestly believe that you have nothing to do? Setting up the home systems, updating both hardware and software, VPN's, transferring the data and their responsbility for compatibility to the new OS, plus the Server 2003 issues, this is the original "NO BRAINER". They take on all of the problems, you can still maintain your systems and support your employees, and please take this on faith; the consultants will need you involved to complete this conversion. To have this all done for $800 is the deal of the century. If your CEO has trouble with this, have him call any tech or IT person and ask them.

by mgrady52

Consultants typically have hit most of the pitfalls that cause serious delays in upgrades and transitions. This experience can more than pay for itself in delays of continued service. Also what happens to your daily "to dos" while you are working on the upgrades? This is a good time for you to get caught up on implementing "best practices" and improving backup procedures, etc.

by brudab

1) Consultants will do the job more efficiently.
2) You can help out or just supervise, but you MUST be involved in some way, because they can't leave you with no knowledge of what they did.
3) You will make countless errors on your own.
4) Need more reasons? I got a bag full. :)

by trockii

Everything we are getting is Dell. The consulting company has purchased over $2.5 Million from Dell, that's where the discount comes in.

by featherman

I think you are making the correct move (or your CEO is making...)!

Much better to have someone else in to do the grunt work, and Dell machines (with one or two notable exceptions) are at least as reliable as the average commercially available system, and better than some...

Good move, and good luck. The one thing you must do is (as mentioned previously in the discussion) make sure you know the status of the rollout, including any issues (anticipated or otherwise), on at least a daily basis, if not every 1/2 day. That way, if something starts going south, you have the opportinity to not only "CYA", but to implement "plan B" (you DO have a "plan B", right?) - to insure minimal on no interruption to existing business functionality.

by hheightman

It sounds like you are inclined toward using the consultant. I believe that this is the better course. I agree with other respondants that it would be a good learning experience to do the project yourself but I also agree that there are risks involved. Even relatively small systems like this can yield unwelcome surprises and if you only "think" you have the knowledge, you're not ready.

Two questions for your CEO:

1. Who's going to cover your routine responsibilities while you are building this new system? Which takes priority? If you have to do it all, either the new system or the existing one has to be put on hold when problems arise.

2. How much down time does it take to eat up $800.00? If you have 20 people depending on the system, one hour of down time means a minimum of 20 hours of non-productive payroll costs. Are you ready for that responsibility when (not if) it happens?

Work with the consultants. Learn from them. Ask lots of "what if" questions. Supplement their documentation with your own. Make it a learning experience with minimal risk to you and your employer.

by joekool24601

In a $60,000 expenditure, there is bound to be some flex space. Various risks include fluctuating market prices, as well as troubleshooting time for components that arrive faulty, and the list goes on. These are unknowns that you could bring to the management's attention. Perhaps you could negotiate with your consultant- I'm sure any consultant would rather make $60K thank lose it over $800. Good luck!

by tekdoc

As you've read, there is more to this decision than $800. If the CEO wants to save $800, let him find out what the true costs are for upgrading all systems. I'll list points off the top of my head, and you should carefully consider the outcome(s).

1. Buy one system from consultant and one from Dell. Look at the components very carefully, compare specs. What is the warranty? This may be the biggest gotcha.

2. Set up each machine with your local settings. This gives you a better idea of the time required to get a functioning workstation.

3. Perform background check on the consultant (Dell, local business, internet.)

4. Try to break the rollout into smaller pieces.

5. Find competent knowledgeable help. I just worked for 4 days at a local corp., helping the IT manager roll out 6 new systems and upgrade 8 older Dells to XP. Their add'l labor cost will be $1200 for the 4 days. The strategic part of this for the manager was that I was his equal in most repsects, and would treat each machine as he wished.

6. Image the best setup and get the hardware you need to quickly setup new workstations, or restore the spyware-infested machines you'll have in a month or so.

7. Look out for the sharks. They are lurking just below your warm corporate waters. If this is a hardware consultant, they are playing with numbers and specs, hoping to hook you into yearly maintenance. If this is a true shark, their teeth are aimed at more than hardware support. They will show your CEO many ways to SAVE dollars. You become part of their food chain. One of the prime selling points they will give him is that their established company will be there for him in the future. Read into this whatever you can.

The bottom line is that you need help, not a consultant. Whether you need a go-fer or an independent like myself is something to decide. Keep the strategic knowledge in your company. No matter what you are sold, there is knowledge from this project that will have an immeasurable effect on the company in years to come. For instance, replacing all machines is a bad idea IMO. Transitioning is better; the project can be served in small portions, and no one has too much to eat. And about those servers, don't get locked into the MS strategy 100%. There are many ways to use older machines and provide some services from those.

by trockii

These "old" machines you refer to were all hand built by the old IT consultant to "save money". 6 different operating systems on a network with only 35 computers. Most machines have either 32 or 64MB ram.

by kspaight

Obviously YourAverageManager is no *average* manager! He/she has apparently been there, done that - and has the bruises to prove it.

Let's all pray that trockii is able to convince the CEO of the dangers of concentrating on the apparent bottom line without considering the less-obvious (at least to those who haven't lived through the experience) impact of lost productivity, compromised security, lost data, and frustrated or angry users...

by j.williamsjr

I notice that the $800 is about 1% of the overall cost. By having people who have already done this type of installation, it is well worth the money.
you could blow $800 by having your system down 8 hrs, calling in a consulatant when something goes wrong.

by pjhagersr_work

Beside the self image of I think I can(I'm that good), which is not the major issue here. I think the major thing is is can I maintain the level of up time and quality in the current system plus do all the new project with all its little deamons that pop up with a project like this. The outside contractor being responsible for the project means the company has two heads to solve the problems and for 800 bucks that's a pretty good insurance policy. The other thing is that all the eggs are not all in one basket, so if someone is sick or whatever the job still can get done in a timely manner. Also the time line for completion doesnt say if the infrastructure is being up graded. If it is it may be time to discuss Voice over IP Telephone and data especially from the remote sites. The cost savings of changing over can save the company enough ROI dollars to pay for the whole up grade in the first six months and put the remaing dollars in the bottom line the first year.

by chazgallagher

I would like to offer another view point to your situation. You said you only have three years experience. You boss would like to cut costs. I recommend that you offer your boss a third option. First, get a quote on the hardware and software as if you were to do it all yourself. Then contact some IT staffing agencies and get a quote for a contact IT professional who would have the knownledge and abilty to do the job. Submit that as a third option even if it is more money. The benefit to you would be in working along side someone and learning which improves your skills and worth to the company. Submit that option with a letter showing all three options with the benefits to each and which of the three is your recommendation and why. Your boss may decide to go with the consultants or Dell. At the very least it shows your boss that your are a team player by looking for other possible solutions.

by trockii

IT staffing agency to get someone that can do what I can't? Are you nuts??? That surely would seal the deal and end my employment.

by mikefromco

I gotta agree with Rocky on this one.
For one of my clients, I am the sole IT consultant for 10-20 hours per week for 27 users.
My entire budget for my services and outsourced hardware is less than the salary cost alone of the full-time IT person they had before.
Your consultant, in this case, is really more of a VAR, which is what they should be.

Mike

by mikefromco

The $800 is really a non-issue as long as you are getting the same equipment. Though I realize the consultant's price is based on different cost, you're basically looking at less than $40 each to install and setup each unit from your companys point of view.
You don't have to deal with potential DOA's, or anything else for that matter. Since it's still Dell hardware, the warranty isn't the issue it would normally be even if the consultant leaves town. And you can keep doing your job while the units are installed. The $800 will be paid for in the difference in implementation time alone.

Mike

by mstoumba

There is know way he can do ti for $800 unless he is makeing a bunch of money on the backend. What you are going to get for the $800 is the machine pulled out of the box and plugged in. KNOW APPS, KNOW PATCH WORK, NO PRINTERS , KNOW TESTING OF THE COMPUTERS WITH THE OLD APPS , KNOW ATTACHING TO THE SERVER. WHAT ARE YOU GETING FOR YOUR MONEY? I assume that you have tested this desktop configuration with your server ? How long ? Step back and look at what you are doing. I guessing you need to spend this money this year so go ahead and do so . Then take a work station and configure it to be your standard network desktop computer and give it to your worst user from hell and see if they can break it. Go slow ! Have you considered your server migration, and how to do that ? There is know way this can be done for $800. I think someone is not thinking clearly.

by suryava

I think your CEO has a point. Or may be not. I think you can take this opportunity as a Project Manager (atleast for some time) and evaluate the two alternatives. You would identify some evaluation criteria such as Risk associated with lack of experience for you, vs the experience of the contractors. What kind of computers would the contractors bring in. Even if they are going to be "behind" them, consider that if they were of inferior quality, how about the downtime waitinf for them to appear and fix them. Depending on your situation, you may include other criteria. Then associate a score with each factor and compare the total score for each alternative.

Other methods could include calculating the Net Present Value method. Consider when would you be paying the Contractors vs DELL. The cost of the contracors bill with respect to when it is due to them, considering the rate of return of the money invested at different points of time.

This kind of comparison not only is reliable, but also puts you and your CEO, into thinking about the two alternatives.

Hope that helps.

by mfrith1

What does the measely 800 bucks buy? Full responsibility for the Installation, Startup, and Integration of new equipment into the work environment. Little or no disruption to current operations. If you haven't done multiple VPNs before then you could really have some problems especially with long distance VPN. You will have enough to do just helping the new install along and overseeing the integration. Let the consulting firm have the headaches. You and the boss will be happier and better off in the long run. Tell the CEO The actual cost of you doing it will be much higher by about $2,000. I've done it both ways. I'll take the consultants every time.

by admin

$800 ain't worth the the risk and responsibility of doing the job in house. Simply have the consultants rework the bid. $800 is barely over 1% of the total stated cons bid. If the consultant can bid the job for $60,000, it can be done in house a lot less than an $800 difference. The CEO AND the consultant will get full value at $59,981. You will have you hands full just continuing you regular duties as well as managing the consultants and the change over.

It is not even a question of which way to go and you and the CEO should not be conversing $800 but rather the timely and successful completion of the task.

by bygriff

If your making $6.50 an hour $800.00 wouldn't even cover it. If a consulting firm actually said they would do it for that its a screeming price. But try to hold them to it and make sure all the i's have dots and the t's are crossed. Things not covered in contract and so on. Please take my word for it and take the $800.00 out of your pocket if you have to. I know from exoerience.

by mstretz

If it were me, I would do the work myself. As a tech that works on 400 computers, I can tell you twenety computers is nothing, providing your company gives you a realistic deadline. The experience you will gain by building this company's network yourself will be invaluable during the rest of your career (both with this company, and the next one).

On the other hand, if you can hire consultants to help, you will get done quicker, no doubt. I really think you will not learn as much though. Plus you will have put yourself in the very awkward position of showing your company that someone from the outside can come in and do your job for $800. That does NOT look good for you.

by fhammett

You have a great opportunity here to add to your knowledge base. What happens 6 months from now when additional changes are required? By doing it yourself you will ready and able.

If you're not sure you can handle this project, than learn all you can from the consultants. Once they leave someone needs to train and support the users. Make sure you're ready.

by trockii

I am the guy that replaced the consultant. Based on what he charged it was cheaper to hire me full time than pay him part time. Consultants here charge between $75-$135/hour. So based on your info of ave 15 hours a week...pay would be between $1125-$2025/week more than I am getting paid.

by jrisner

There shouldn't be any downtime try doing the project in chunks. A few PCs at a time. You may want to setup a test bench. The approach I use is to Do a presetup on the machine where I setup all of the software that is needed. An image combined with RIS works really well for that. Then I copy the entire HDD of the old machine so I am sure not to lose any files. Then I locate the files in the old directories and copy them to the new directories. You may get the CFO to send you to a class thus improving your bottom line. A good class would be Advanced Computer Troubleshooting by Compumaster. It costs less than the $800 and will make you more valuable.

by vscruggs

Double check with your accountant, but that $800 can probably be capitalized. Assuming your hardware is depreciated over 3 years, the $800 becomes $22 per month - a small price to pay for the expertise of someone who has been there before. Also, the consultant should be helping you sell the value of their services.

by noo-yawker

Assuming the integrator really knows their stuff, $800 to do the work and be responsible for it is a bargain. At less than 2% of your cost for the equipment alone it's a no-brainer.

Figure the value of your time and the learning curve, and it will be more expensive directly and indirectly as it may take you longer which means there's also business cost (and risk)in the delay in not having the new system up and usable by everyone sooner.

The time you're working on this project means you're also unavailable for other projects or problem-solving. If you have to stop this integration project to fight fires, then it gets delayed even more.

The sight of those boxes of equipment sitting in a closet instead of being used will cause more than $800 worth of bad feelings.

The bigger issue is that a CEO who's shelling out $59K and then quibbles over an extra $800 for service has problems in judgement.

by calliel

If you want the IT consulting company to do the work, and the equipment they are providing is comparable, why not ask your CEO if he would consider having an outside firm complete the refresh to free up your time, if the cost to do it all was the same as Dell's quote for only supplying the equipment. If he agrees, go to the IT consulting company and ask if they would lower their quote by $721. For a $60,000 contract they just might do it.

by mgritz

Hmm, if it were me, I would pay the $800 myself and take a vacation with a cell phone and mai-tai, call in a few times, show how it came in on time, on budget and make it up on my end of year bonus.

Thanks for add a few bucks to the dell bid. Always works for me. Help your CEO make the decision, if it's $800.00 that important to him, heck, add a a couple larger monitors or an upgrade or two and dell would be a few buck more.

Thank write some fancy partnering thing and give your boss the credit, next time, he'll listen the first time.

Mike

by thorntongale

The consultants will do a passable job but they won't do a highly personalized job. They will execute their standard playbook - they will come in with a hammer and everything to them will look like a nail.

On the other hand, you will have a license to make large changes to the environment at the same time the new stuff is being installed. For example you will have a green field to finally install a proper backup system or design and enforce a standard operating environment in the office. These huge changes could never be contemplated before but now you have a license to slip them in as part of the larger project.

by pka

I don't like the high bid. They are offering to do a lot of work for very little money. It is hard to under bid Dell at all, let alone with a lot of labor added to it. Be careful of what are are buying.

by mary.hoerr

Your CEO needs to know the costs of both approaches to make a decision. The most common mistake IT people make is not counting the cost of their own time.
1. Calculate roughly how long it will take you to do this. Even if you get the operating system installed with the new machines, you will have network services, standard applications, and applications unique to certain sets of users to install. Estimate approx 2 hours per machine if you are ghosting, up to 8 hours per machine if you are not. If you have not set up a ghost system to broadcast images to multiple systems, estimate the time to learn, install and configure such a system (2 hrs to 8 hrs?).
2. Now compare this time to the time you require for your other tasks. How much time do you spend on network maintenance tasks? Troubleshooting? Are there other projects you are responsible for - database maintenance, creating templates, etc?
3. Estimate the cost to the company in network down time (number of employees x down time hours). Estimate the cost to the company when a specific employee is unable to work because you take a day longer (or more) to resolve a troubleshooting issue. Estimate the cost to the company if a critical database goes down. You should know this anyway -- you should KNOW the value to the company of your work, which is what these figures show.
4. You might bring up the increase in time required for troubleshooting, as other people have suggested, but this is hard to quantify. Even if you have the consultants take care of the transition, this number is likely to go up because many (all?) of your end-users will be unfamiliar with some aspects of the upgrade. By all means let your CEO know this will be a cost of the transition, with or without consultants.
5. Now let your CEO make the trade-offs. You have a finite amount of time. If you take on this project, either network stability will suffer (see cost of network downtime) or your other projects will suffer. Your CEO may very well decide your other projects can be put on hold. If so, go ahead and do it, and add to your experience and value to the company.

by stuart_lesnett

I haven't heard anything about the end-user community. Reviewing the collection of different equipment and OS's being changed someone is going to have their hands full handling the user community. Secondly VPN is nice but communication is COM and nothing every works the first time. You finally mentioned lost productivity of the end-user community and covering that expense is nothing to the initial $800 difference. Your portion of the consolidation to MS is going to be a large enough problem. Take the consulting company but be sure someone understands what you're getting ( I'm not especially talking about hardware) and make sure it's a fix price contract. This type of contract does place all burden on you. The IT department must plan-plan-plan well because any change will cost you extra. Try to convice your CEO NOT to eat the entire elephant at one time, the phased approach is best for maintaining continuity of service.

Good Luck

by dasc0917

From the CEO?s point of view trockii should be heralded as a true company man to the n-th degree. He is absolutely correct in his assessment of the situation and the value of bringing on the consulting staff. Not that he will necessarily be able to convince the CEO of that. He is, however, missing the big picture from a strictly mercenary point of view. I?ve come to the belief that we?re here to take care of ourselves first and the company only to whatever extent it benefits us.

I?ve been trying to find a programming or development position for quite some time. It seems that no matter how many different areas I have experience in, companies generally want more. Trockii may be happy in a small company now but sooner or later it?s going to be to his benefit to be able to tell someone, an interviewer perhaps, that he did this job.

by scott.ward

Not sure how the consultants are able to perform the work at such a low price above the cost of the hardware. They must resell Dell products. Bottom line - this is a simple decision - it will take you several days to get all of the hardware in and loaded with your company software and then deploy all of the hardware accross the company. Do you have the physical space? The consultants will probably load the hardware at their site and bring it to your site and deploy it in 1 or 2 days with minimal business interuption. It is well worth the $800 and you can hold them accountable for their work. Hire the consultants.

by trockii

Yeah active directory will be implemented along with group policy. I love setting up policies. So easy to manage things that way rather than file permissions.

by shess57

Why not talk to the consulting company and ask them to do it for $800 less then you get what you want and the boss gets what he wants?
And if the consulting company won't come down then I would question whether or not I want them doing it anyway.....