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Only Microsoft would do this - Win XP doesn't recognise Win XP

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115 replies

by deadly ernest

Closed to new repliesThis discussion is closed. It stays readable, but it takes no new replies.

I'm in the middle of fixing some computers for a friend, she has two PCs bought at the same time. One has Win XP Home (full copy), the other had Win 98 when bought and they gave her a Win XP Pro Upgrade disc with it. She didn't bother loading the upgrade at the time. Now she wants it done, but she wants the XP Home upgraded to XP pro and the Win 98 to the XP Home as the machine currently with XP Home is a faster CPU with more RAM. Both machines are well over the minimum for XP.

Being a good boy, I'm upgrading the XP Home to the XP Pro so I won't violate the licence terms and have it on two machines at once.

Guess what, the Win XP Pro Upgrade disc doesn't recognise Win XP Home as a valid version of MS Windows and asks me to present my disc copy of Win 95/98, Win ME, or Win2000 before it will proceed.

Luckily, I have a copy of Win2000 Pro that's not installed at the moment, put that in and away it goes.

But I like the concept, Win XP Pro doesn't recognise Win XP Home as a valid version of Windows. Need anyone say anything more about XP Home. :p

115 replies

by techexec2

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Windows XP Pro doesn't recognize XP Home...

Windows Vista doesn't recognize legitimate customers and falsely accuses them of being pirates (aaaargh!).

I understand now! Windows is Mr. Magoo! :^0

P.S. Why couldn't little rickk get into the pirate movie? Because it was rated aaaarrr! :p (now THAT was juvenile...I couldn't resist)

by deadly ernest

on page 2 point 4. that you can upgrade from Win 98 (incl 2nd edition), Win ME, Win NT4 (SP 6 or later) Win 2000, Win XP Home.

by tom

Microsoft's XP upgrade page (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/matrix.mspx) states that Windows XP Home Edition is eligible for In-Place upgrade. It seems ludicrous that you wouldn't be able to upgrade Home edition to Pro. 99% of PCs available in the big retail stores (no, I'm not recommending buying from them, but many people do) come with Home. Personally, I've always felt upgrading from home to pro should cost less than upgrading from a previous version, since home is a crippled version of Pro anyway.

by clark1

You cannot upgrade from XP Home to XP Pro, the biggest differences between the two are basically networking options. You cannot put XP Home on a domain where you can with XP Pro. There are other differences but thats the biggie as far as I know.

It doesnt make sense but hey its Microsoft LOL

by deadly ernest

and they allow you to upgrade from them. I'd say they simply didn't include code to recognise Win XP at all. I think I'll check to see if you can upgrade from XP Pro to XP Pro

by ben.rattigan

Windows ME is a mid-way version to patch between 2000 and XP releases.

Windows ME cannot join domains
Windows 98 can join domains
Windows 2000 Pro can join domains
Windows XP Home cannot join domains
Windows XP Pro can join domains

Windows 98 was designed for both home and business use whilst ME, XP Home are purely for home office based computing, XP Pro and 2000 Pro are buisness clients and intended to join NT/2000/2003 domains.

by tig2

Windows doesn't recognise Windows. Perhaps a Window cleaner? Glass Magic, perhaps?

Silly to say the least.

At least we all know that Pirate movies are good for a private laugh!

Kudos to TE- FUNNY! :D

by clark1

to bring seriousness into something that was supposed to be light hearted. Sorry folks, going on very little sleep (home pc took a dump and had to get it back up last night, boss's orders LOL)

by elizabetsno

I bought my current laptop from a local electronics supermarket that sold their machines with XP Home ready installed. I told them I wanted XP Pro, which was no problem at all. They included an upgrade disc (for a small fee) in my purchase.

My bet is that the reason your friend's upgrade disc didn't recognize XP Home was because it wasn't sold for a machine that had XP Home. I mean, isn't this how MS thinks?

Elizabeth in Norway

by 2shane

I have made the decison to fully upgrade to Ubuntu....
Note: My opinion based upon my expereinces are mine and they may or may not, in full or in part, be the same or similar to other peoples experiences and or opinions.

To start:

Hi I am Gay and Christian.. and what you may say has this to do with Ubuntu and Microscoff Fista?

Everything.

See when the Linux community comes to me, it's rather like my boyfriend, with a big smile and a jar of vaseline in his hand - it' warm, loving and affectionate - and it's going to open me up to lots of wonderful new experiences.

When I think of Microsoft, it's like Mr Angry and "makes up stories" Steve Ballme r chasing me around the room with a big pineapple in his hand, telling me that for only a few thousand dollars, he is going to make me like it.

I don't think so.

Now you see I am not a Gnow it all, I just do.

I have been running windows from D0S 6.22 / Win 3.11 - to the present HEX PEE.

And I have been having really honest efforts to change completely over to Linux distributions, mainly because I find that MS's formulation of an OS to be unsavoury at best and dishonest at worst.

I found that I have limited time and brain power and I have lots to do. I like learning but I also like to spend my time getting the job done instead of spending huge amounts of time, learning how to use the things I need to get it done.

The earlier distro's of linux required me to do a crash course in "programming" and I had no tutoring and little time and an awful lot to learn - seemingly beyond my comprehension.

I feel that the Ubuntu 7.04 has given me enough of an edge to get a full operating system up and running, with enough left over to learn more of the indepth stuff, if I really want or need too, after I have the OS fully up and running.

Bingo - this is the magic point where I can get on board and run with it.

I feel that it could go a little bit further and have more clarity and simple step by step explainations - like a first grade reader book..

I kind of like a challenge and learning is fun - and the Ubuntu really ought to have a fully downloadable (on the hard drive) help section, including stuff from the forums..

And it ought to be cataloged - 25 explanations of varying quality and content, and ability to follow are not an efficient way to disseminate the "How-Too's".

Ummmmmmmmmm The great things about this Linux distro -

Well it works.

It's stable and reliable.

I like it.

I can PROGRAM my own OS to do things that I want, the way I want them too.

No more secret lockie - outie crap from MS.

I am finding that Ubuntu is really really good.

Ok now the anti Microscoff slant.

I kind of like / hate MS.

I feel that with people being people - both inside and outside of MS, that it's a challenging issue to get anything up and running and to make an income from it.

OK so some sympathy to MS there.. BUT...

The reason I have solidly made the decision to go with Ubuntu Linux is because:

My C:\ drive after 4 or so years of solid work, was finally dying... the read write error etc...

So I looked up all the MS stuff on the subject of backing up my entire operating system.

The MS website'S, said that MS back up and something or other "shadow technology" (MS's interpretation of disk imaging) would save me in advance from accidentally deleted files and hard drive failures.

I then sent a webform email off the the MS site help, and I ended up having a HUGE **** fight through MS's outsourced IQ by rote call center., and the whole tech department over this ONE simple question.

"Ok there is lots of stuff in the MS sites, on backing up with the MS back up and shadow imaging, in case of accidental deletion of files or hard drive failures."

"I plan to back up my entire C:\ drive to a USB disk and then reinstall it onto a new hard drive".

"But in respect to impending hard drive failures, once I have backed it all up, because there is NOTHING in any of the MS sites on how to do it, I am asking you how do I reinstall it to a NEW hard drive".

I went through about 4 or 5 phone calls and the MS staff fighting with me, and me getting stuck into them... for pissing me around and trying to ******** their way out of it.

Sooo after much ado.. I was finally informed that you CANNOT really back up your hard drive, nor can you reinstall unless you have a volume license and a MS supplied disk image.

And the webform email went from the USA, to Australia and the MS sales... and they told me to ring tech support...

Well WTF is the Microsoft USA HELP webform for????

And I went "OFThis"... yeah great - more of the little corporate pricks, making me tow their line, so that I now have to reinstall all my XP stuff, I also have to re-register everything, and then download all the patches and updates and all my software and then I have to reload all my working files and then I have to reconfigure everything to work the way I like it...

(working 10 to 5 (10am till 5am) it's a 10 day job)

Noooo simple copy off and copy back on over a cup of tea... Naaaaaaa I was also told that MS even builds in key scrambling software for the users of proper disk imaging products....

And I went "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I am just soooooo sick of MS and all their ******** - this is the last straw.

The relationship is OVER, - "Give me the keys, here's your bags, there's the door, the taxi is on it's way, here's $20 for a one way fare - good bye; now get your arse out the door".

I have some remaining work in XP / office 2000, and while Open Office does really need to improve in terms of stability cause it does do funny things beyond the simple and short; I am starting to see that with a little more time, it probably would really improve and become a solid and robust set of programs.

I have erased MS completely off my Presario 2100 laptop and it runs just fine with Ubuntu 7.04...

One of the things I noted was that the hard drive is no longer spinning it's guts out trying to do anything..

With XP it was a like a small 4 cylinder car trying to tow a double horse float up a muddy hill...

And now with Linux, there is just the odd quiet ticker noise every 4 or 5 seconds, when the drive has to actually read and write..

It's like WOW...

I used to live directly opposite a very busy train line - across a narrow street... going up a long incline and the noise - it drove me mad at first and after a while I got used to it.. a couple of years later.. trains what trains?

But what used to send me into "What mode", was when the trains stopped running....

"Silence???" and it's like this with my laptop....

"Whaaaa???" It's running all this stuff and it's almost as if it isn't even on...????

AMAZED!!!!

And I only have to keep XP until I finish up a heap of work and then it's getting permanently retired.

I am needing to learn how to use WINE and I may even pay to buy some proprietary software to run some windows apps as a virtual machine through Linux...

I am not one to throw money about.. I can only type so fast and my needs are modest...

I have NO intention of upgrading to Windows Fista for several reasons.

I hate MS and it's sleazy DRM and surveilance and lack of modifier unfriendly software....

I can't do lots of simple **** like kill off information balloons and.. just tons of irritable and dumb stuff.... I hate the My Favourites (docs, vids, music and pix)... I hate all the software that defaults in to saving stuff in these folders...

I just think.. "Who ever dreamed this up should be kicked..." (fool etc.) I have my OWN filing system with specific topics / adgendas / subjects in my own layouts and locations.

Just tones of stuff... and while I want to do something about it, I can't... or I can and it's not really easy... or it's some vauge and convoluted process.. that is usually not disclosed by Microsoft.

And the ultimate piss off about all of this for me is to be getting my HIGH maintainace system more or less down pat (operationally speaking), and to then suffer from impending Hard Drive failure and to then have to go through all of it again because the shits in Microsoft have decided that I am not allowed to do it... and they do it by making back up software that doesn't.

I know from experience that it's smart to forget the whole MS backing up thing and to simply COPY ones files onto a USB hard drive...

One of the MAJOR rubs with this pedantic **** mentality that Microsoft serves up is that with XP Pro, the stupid backup software installs with the installation of the OS and with XP home, you have to either go get or find your installation disk and then copy it across and then install it...

I mean why do this kind of purile ********...

The next REAL incentive to giving MS the arse is that they have "Grades of Operating System".. it's like Stupid Telstra's mobile phone plans....

No "Just on and call at a flat rate".. noooo there are slights of hand and traps and variations to the call rates like the phases of the moon...

Same with Microsoft Fista... I'd be doing the one UNIT, and what people don't use they don't use....

But bloody MS makes all these price gouging wroughts... for incremental capability... and I'd bet that MS excludes pratical user tools from the most basic editions that the top dollar versions cost....

Then the same price gouging antics apply..

So to go the full on MS Fista.. Here in Aus..

$1100 for Office 2007 and $900 for MS Fista and then toss in another $1000 or so for the new high powered box to run all this crap....

I am just thinking...

Ubunto is free.

It's now comparatively easy to use.

There is tonnes of really great software - like 21,400 bits of it...

I can configure it to work how I want.

There are NO stupidly locked in settings... I don't have Favourites, I have my own stuff and I can put it where I want...

And I am just sooo grateful to all the wonderful people who care enough to make this brilliant software and who like to share it...

In a world seemingly flooded with corporate scumbags on the take, Ubuntu and Linux and all the people who make the software, it feels like nice place to be in.. instead of drowning in "John Howard / George Bush" kinds of ********.

You inspire me to become a better person

I want to learn how to do things in Linux and to share it with other people too.

And Microsoft after the crap you guys have pulled over the years selling software that is so buggy that it should never have been released - followed up by the last ******** trip ever over backing my hard drive up...

Naaaaaa, No way.... you can stick your price gouging, your shoddy treatment of me and all of your DRM's and "Agreements", and your MS Fista up your arse.

It's my computer, I'll do with it what I want, when I want, with the software that I want... not because Microsoft tries to get away with making me.

Microsoft, it's secret deals and licenses have no more rights in my life or in my computer....

Living with MS has been like living with a lying thieving junkie ***** partner..... in a carefully cultivated PR image and business suit.

No more.

The relationship is over and the complete migration to Linux and Open Source is now a solid commitment.

And to all who have stuck this out...

I am HAPPY to be embracing Ubuntu Linux and I am happy to be getting MS and it's OS out of my life and out of my computers.

And I can do a FULL DISK IMAGE back up of Ubuntu.. minus all the MS crapfest.

Yay Linux.

by techexec2

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I'm glad for you that you've given up on Microsoft and made the switch to Linux. I did the same thing a few months ago.

This is the second time on TR that I've read this same post from you publicly and openly declaring that you're gay. There is nothing wrong with being openly gay. I don't have any religious or moral or ethical problems with people being gay. But, there is something classless about ANYBODY, gay or straight, making direct references to the implements and joys of their sexual activities publicly in a global professional IT forum. There is a proper time and place for that and this isn't it.

So, please, be open, but stop posting this kind of thing here.

P.S. Just for the record, I'm straight. I'm not "proud" of it and don't advertise it when talking about IT. I just am.

by now left tr

you would be first in line with the tub!

Mind you - you have just dome the exact same thing at the foot of your post. Now I will have to pick up a lime, extract the juice before inserting into a dropper and popping a few acidic drops in your eyes.

I don't just like limes - I love them. Not proud of it but there go :-)

by tom

2Shane,
I'm a straight Christian and while the Straight/Gay may or may not be relevant, please don't call yourself a Christian, and then carry write something so close to pornography. I think you should be ashamed of your sexual references. What a witness!
Tom

by deadly ernest

as that is what Christ taught - sadly, that's not what most of the church hierarchies teach.

BTW Christ taught that adultery was wrong, he taught that prostitution was wrong, but he never taught sex was wrong. And that's the same message in the Old Testament as well.

by apotheon

edited:

Never mind. It's a losing proposition to get into a discussion of sexuality who thinks mentioning a jar of Vaseline is pornography and feels it incumbent upon himself or herself to self-differentiate from gays. I want no part of this discussion after all.

by ben.rattigan

Typical right wing neo-con American rubbish. You can't even have a discussion without pushing religion into it! This site is Techrepublic, not TechRepublican.

You people are obsessed with these far fetched bible stories.

by ang2006

>>>>Hi I am Gay and Christian.. and what you may say has this to do with Ubuntu and Microscoff Fista?<<<<< Is that something like a crooked straight line?

by tig2

While I took some issue with the phrasing of some of his remarks, I don't think that french frying the guy is the best plan. Another peer addressed the delicacy issue in another thread and I will make bets that 2Shane has had moments in which he thought better of making his points using some of his language.

I agree with DE here. He is exactly who he is. From a Christian perspective, we will find greater value in acknowledging him and accepting him.

No, I am not saying that there isn't an opportunity to mentor him in appropriate communication as regards his sex life. I am saying that the subject should be addressed from a perspective of mentoring- teaching, not just hurling rocks.

Try some objective roads toward improvement if you feel you must, but please don't lets start a war over poor choices of phrase.

Try really reading what he wrote. He was trying to communicate strong frustration in an event and what he successfully did to work through it.

Just my opinion.

Edit- missed a "d"

by jaw1362

Bummer. Microsoft has always been a paranoid git outfit. Your client needs to get herself a MAC and let Bill eat it.

by ben.rattigan

Why would you want Windows XP Pro? Windows XP Home is designed for what it is, use in the home or possibly small business. Windows XP Home is not a newer version of Win9x, Windows 98 and later editions of 95 where deisgned to connect to NT/2000 domain servers, as is Windows XP Pro. Windows ME and Windows XP Home cannot be joined to a domain controller, they can however join a workgroup.

You cannot use the Win XP Pro Upgrade in the Windows XP Home PC as this was not the PC it was supplied with and is designed for upgrading the OEM Windows 98 PC is was supplied with. To use the Windows XP Pro Upgrade in your Windows XP Home PC would in fact violate the licence agreement.

Now whether you agree with Microsofts licensing policies or not, these are the facts.

by nagleantai

My computer at work seems to be like that. When I try to download some things from the Microsoft website it tells me my copy of Win XP is not genuine. It was already installed when we got the computer from Dell though.

by deadly ernest

for the client, and MS Australia agree it's legal and should work.

Here the laws are if you have a legal licence for the software, you may install it on any machine you want as long as you don't exceed the correct number of licences. One licence, only on one machine at any one time. Software is NOT sold strictly for use on one machine, but sold for use by the purchaser.

I can legally move the licence from machine to machine and as long as the machine the meets the minimum equipment requirements the software is supposed to work, or I can take MS to court for it not being fit for the purpose bought.

Until I switched to SimplyMEPIS Linux I had a copy of XP I'd bought and installed on 4 different machines as I upgraded my system and deleted it from one to put on the next. No hassles and all legal. Australian laws are so much more sensible than USA laws in that regards.

by donaldcoe

Some points of view are quite factual and full of detail, but after reading over 12 responses there still is no info on the computer?s brand name, it?s initial age. I ask this question because many years ago when the hardware cost exceeded the cost of the software installed and including original software with it was a given, so you got the real article. When computer manufactures found their software cost were going thru the roof they started creating the term ?System Restore Disk? which was nothing more than an system re-imaging disk with included the Windows operating system cab files and unique drivers of their workstation model, designed to do only one thing **wipe everything out?quick format?and restore everything as it would have been at the time of purchase and saving nothing else.

With every new Windows release it seems there was a consistent mindset that the new OS was also to designed to break user hardware and force customer base to upgrade or buy NEW hardware as well. In the beginning computers in the home was a part of the family every family member had a part of it and the thought of replacing it because it was running a little slower was deemed as an act of treason towards a family member. In one of the previous blogs Win 98 was mentioned as being an original OS on the workstation now we talking some 7 to 10 years ago . Could anyone imagine what technological changes that have taken place in this time frame. Please take this advice, ?replace this workstation with a present day platform, backup the work data from your old workstation for eventual restoral to the newer system. The end result will be ?A whole lot less stress for all?.

by khigh

Very true, Microsoft made sure this was well documented back when XP was released.

by deadly ernest

on page 2 point 4. that you can upgrade from Win 98 (incl 2nd edition), Win ME, Win NT4 (SP 6 or later) Win 2000, Win XP Home.

by ocjim

You message clears things up, and probably save me a lot of time upgrading to Pro in my home, which I will not do now. And I will back off some installs of Pro to Home which are not domain based. Thank You.
OCJim

by gilmar9

I have used win 95 win ME win 98 win 98 2nd and finally win XP. All but XP Home were a crash waiting to happen. During the last 10 years I have lost tuns of data. During the last 3 years using win XP Home I have suffered not one crash. If XP Pro is even better it is certainly worth the money. I shall try an upgrade. Thanks Mr G.

by ben.rattigan

You are wasting you money upgrading from Windows XP Home to Windows XP Pro. Windows XP Pro as I have already pointed out is primarily designed for connecting to corporate networks and joining windows server domains. If you use yoru computer at home, generally on the net, email, media and games then don't upgrade to XP Pro. You won'y gain anything from upgrading, which is why there is no upgrade path.

by deadly ernest

a. Win XP Home is meant for a stand alone PC and not really meant to connect into a network. It is possible to set up a peer2peer network with Home but it's a hassle doing it.

Pro is designed for a business environment and being part of a network, so setting up on a LAN and sharing is easier to do and manage. It also has some additional security settings you can use. At least the copies I've worked with have.

------------

If you aren't using a LAN or a lot of resource sharing (printer and files, etc) then it makes little difference if you use Pro or Home.

----------

Memory management in Win 9x and ME was terrible, and most crashes were due to 'out of memory' problems as the system didn't always release memory back for use. I've found the use of one of the memory management programs like MemTurbo and MemManager (and any other) will greatly reduce crashing in Win 9x systems. I know of a Win 98 P166 that hasn't crashed in 6 years - not since MemTurbo was installed.

by pradipsagdeo9

I had one occasion to do it. The only trouble I had was that the original upgrade CD was too thick to fit the slim drive of the laptop I was trying to upgrade. Copying it on a standard CD solved the problem. Why Microsoft uses such thick CDs, I don't understand. But something is fishy here.

by ben.rattigan

If this has happened then your OEM licence key has been given out at some point and someone somewhere has Win XP installed with your licence key. Microsoft invalidate keys that get out into the public and are used illegally.

This is why in particular volume licene keys need to be kept safe.

by dadspad

but I suspect that the original problem was an OEM upgrade disc specific for older operation systems. Rememer, the person bought a win 98 machine and was given an upgrade disk to move Win 98 to WXP Pro.

If you buy an official Win XP Pro upgrade CD from MS, it will upgrade XP Home to Pro. OEM CDs are sometimes special configurations.

Dad

by deadly ernest

the book with it says on page 2 point 4. that you can upgrade from Win 98 (incl 2nd edition), Win ME, Win NT4 (SP 6 or later) Win 2000, Win XP Home.

This isn't a copy of an OEM disk, and neither is the Home disc, both are genuine MS discs.

by deadly ernest

that it's an easy upgrade. A common issue was the sale of PCs with XP Home and they wanted Pro, MS Aust advised you just get XP Pro upgrade and install it.

I've heard of numerous people doing it, just never done it myself before and no one had mentioned this issue before.

BTW Since I started this thread I've tried installing XP Pro upgrade with SP2 on a box with original XP Pro and again it failed to recognise Win XP Pro as a valid version of Windows and wanted me to load the Win 2000 or Win 9x or Win ME disk before going ahead.

Seems XP just doesn't recognise XP.

by eracer

About a year ago I did the exact same upgrade scenario with my two home PCs and didn't have any problems. The XP Home to XP Pro upgrade went fine and then XP Home loaded up on my slower machine without a hitch. Just lucky I guess....

by eracer

Hey, mkleinpaste! Based on what I reading here, we must be blessed! Good thing we didn't know it couldn't be done!

Ignorance is bliss - at least for me!

by now left tr

those several upgraded installs may all be illegal.

Why not just do a fresh install?

Perhaps you were using a full copy of XP Pro for the upgrade (which allows a Home - Pro) and not the XP Pro upgrade disk!!!!!!!

by fore_thought

Lime juice for the straight guy...stop trying to show your stripes covertly and Kudos for actually reading the previous post before yours and responding in kind.

by deadly ernest

1 - From the manual supplied by MS with the disc. On page 2 point 4. that you can upgrade from Win 98 (incl 2nd edition), Win ME, Win NT4 (SP 6 or later) Win 2000, Win XP Home.

2 - Since I started this thread I've tried installing XP Pro upgrade with SP2 on a box with original XP Pro and again it failed to recognise Win XP Pro as a valid version of Windows and wanted me to load the Win 2000 or Win 9x or Win ME disk before going ahead.

Seems XP just doesn't recognise XP.

by jeffdewitt

I don't think XP-Pro to XP-Pro is a valid upgrade! Just download and install the service pack.

by deadly ernest

gave me the same screen as for the XP Home to XP pro, asking for a Win 9x, Win 2000, Win Me disc. I killed the install at that point as I didn't want to actually down grade to XP SP2 - that has WGA a process guaranteed to destroy any system that doesn't have broadband with Auto Updates activated.

The original XP Home to XP Pro issue was for a client, I tested the XP Pro to XP Pro on my own machines which I DON'T want to have to rebuild again thanks to WGA stuffing it up.

by deadly ernest

on page 2 point 4. that you can upgrade from Win 98 (incl 2nd edition), Win ME, Win NT4 (SP 6 or later) Win 2000, Win XP Home.

by now left tr

Just Checking....

It will not see the current XP Home install due to service packs and any patches - the product is now different than that of the base install.

Before I buy....

by deadly ernest

screen and asked me for a Win 9x, Win ME, or Win 2000 disc. As I said in the original post I used a Win 2000 disc I had that wasn't installed and it installed fine after that.

by deadly ernest

While Win200 Pro and XP Pro are meant for use as stand alone or in a domain and have all the network stuff in them. You can network Win 9x, Win ME, and Win XP Home but it's not as easy to do as with the PRO version.

When Win 95 and Win 98 came out, they were meant for the home user, business users were meant to use Win NT for Workgroups.

by ben.rattigan

It's easier to network ME, 95 or Home. These OS's use only workgrouping, just stick a static IP in each, make sure they are in the same subnet and have the same workgroup name and your done!

You can do exactly the same with W2K Pro and XP Pro but they are designed for domain based computing. Windows 98 was designed for both business or home client, Windows 98 unlike ME or XP Home connects to domains because it can be a business client.

by ang2006

By searching the web, you can find a work- around to the problem. Can't hurt and it is your machine. As long as it is not pirated, I can do as I wish with what I buy.

by magpie_z

Make of machine, e.g., Dell, Whitebox, HP, etc. Type of OS install disc, oem( as used by whitebox system builders)/retail/Dell restore disc, etc. originally used on system being upgraded.

Have you contacted MS for a resolution?
Have you checked Knowledge Base for resolution?
Have you Googled?

Do you know someone that knows more than you when it comes to system repairs?
Have you tried the MS Upgrade Advisor? May give a hint as to why you may be having issues.

Not a slam on you, just trying to get the facts clear and whether there is a resolution.

by deadly ernest

The systems were one put together by a major local company (Ipex), they do huge batches for business and government. One had slightly more RAM and a faster processor as they were from two production runs -Early P4s with 512 & 1GB RAM. They were sold through a local retail / wholesale outfit and bought through the client's work at the same time the client's husband's work replaced all their systems. The systems came with the OS pre installed and the OS discs in the lovely blue MS retail boxes. The XP Pro is marked as an Upgrade box.

I contacted a MS tech I know and he said "Just use any valid disc once the system sees it, it'll go OK from there." And that's what happened, I just mentioned the matter here as I thought it funny that MS Windows XP Pro did not recognise MS Windows XP Home as a valid version of Windows.

Sorry if you got the impression I was seeking help, I'd already got around the issue - just found it funny. I later went on to test XP Pro upgrade to XP Pro and had the same problem. XP Pro upgrade doesn't seem to recognise any version of XP as a valid Windows system.

by ashby

I've spotted along this thread and your experience certainly seems unusual, given the versions of XP Home and XP Pro you are using.

It smells to me of a possible licensing issue. As you know, there are three different licenses for XP systems, with different rules. Volume licensing is for corporates, designed for easy installation on multiple systems. It would not be cost effective for an individual, so we can discount that.

Next is OEM, which are systems designed to be installed on new build boxes only (officially, you must be a "system builder" to legally install one. But MS class an individual home builder as a "system builder"). OEM systems must be installed on clean disks - they cannot be used to upgrade an existing system. Since your Pro system specifically asks to verify a previous system, it can't be OEM and from your description, it does indeed seem to be a genuine retail upgrade version. The other oddity about OEM XP systems (and Vista and 2003 Server but nothing earlier) is that the license is assigned to a specific machine on installation and it cannot be transferred to another machine later (this here in the UK and US, not sure about Oz). This was always true from the EULA but XP was the first OS to enforce it.

The third option is Retail Box, in new install or upgrade versions. I believe the educational discount version is a subset of Retail XP Pro Upgrade but I've never encountered one. These are the most flexible versions and can be transferred from machine to machine, always providing it is deactivated and deinstalled from the old machine before you try to activate it on the new one. This is clearly what your XP Pro version is. And you say that you have XP Home in a retail box for the old system (here in the UK XP Home boxes are green, not blue - only Pro is blue).

So this would appear to be a legitimate upgrade, as confirmed by your manual. Curious. So the question I have is whether the installed XP Home system was actually installed from the boxed copy you have, which would be unusual if obtained from a general retailer, rather than an individual builder. Retail outlets tend to use OEM versions, usually via imaged hard drives - they may then toss in a retail box as your legal copy (this happened a lot here when SP1 was being phased out). You can check from the registry serial number but we shouldn't go into that here! You likely know how anyway.

One other off the wall idea - what level was the XP Pro at? I could imagine there might be a possible conflict if it was SP1 and the Home was SP2 (via MS Update or whatever).

I understand you circumvented the problem in the obvious way but I'm intrigued by the apparent anomaly.

Regards.

by twocrows

...I think you might be missing the point.
(Even if it?s well intended, no doubt about it) the thing here is XP not recognizing XP in first place.
As a technician, installing, restoring, repairing, etc. home to home, found this thing to happen very frequently. Here we don?t have that many branded computers (compared to US), since they are too expensive compared to assemble-your-own PC?s.
Even if Windoze XP Home was installed either on a generic PC or on a branded one with the original OEM discs, half of them would show this kind of behavior when moving XP Home to XP Pro.
Lucky me that I always carry my trustee W98-2nd Ed. disc!!! Who said it won?t be used anymore? :P

by deadly ernest

screen and asked me for a Win 9x, Win ME, or Win 2000 disc. As I said in the original post I used a Win 2000 disc I had that wasn't installed and it installed fine after that.

by gis bun

This may fall under one of the following conditions [I suspect]:
1) Whatever the upgrade checks for may be corrupt [not finding what it needs to find]
2) Can you upgrade from Home to Pro?

BTW, there was talking of MS reducing it's support for Home but not Pro a while back.

by deadly ernest

- Most women in that industry do.

I think Ashby may have hit upon the answer - it's possible the original install was done by a volume licence and I'm now putting a retail licence on. I don't know if you can go from a volume licence to a retail licence - you should be able to, but you never can tell with MS.

by deadly ernest

for a single machine out the window (pun intended) - as long as the number of running installed copies doesn't exceed the number of licences, you can move from machine to machine.

I think you may be right in the copy on the system may not be the copy in the box. The company that supplied the systems usually uses volume licences, it's probable they installed from a volume licence image and just tossed a disc in the box. Both were originally prepared as extras for corporate sales. The Win 98 was done up for a business that was still using Win 98 as their core software was designed for Win 98 and won't run on XP.

I was intrigued and amused by the situation, which is why I posted the first message. This has taken on a life of its own and I'm surprised about some of the directions the thread is going too.

by deadly ernest

Australian consumer laws on fair trading and restrictive trade practices. A few years back I was doing some accounting modules while doing an IT diploma and the accounting stuff included commercial law with a whole module on trade practices - I raised the MS EULA with the prof and he checked it with the relevant govt agency and they'd already looked at it and marked about half the EULA as invalidated by existing Australian law on trade practices and consumer law.

The software is sold to be used on a computer, not a specific computer - so as long as it's a valid licence and only installed the legal number of times machines at any one point in time, I can put it on any machine.

I'll check the govt law web sites and try to find the exact wording for you.

by roeltolentino2002

Hi, just want to ask you about this. Why should we upgrade our windows xp home to windows xp pro... Since it's both xp, we should not upgrade xp home to xp pro. This does not mean that xp home is not license but it's another version of xp. Just like the xp service pack 1 and 2. There's a certain changes or revision about the two. But in performance, they are almost the same.

by deadly ernest

settings, and most importantly because the client is more used to working with Pro and wants Pro on their main machine - and the last is what gets me paid, so that's what has highest priority with me.

by ben.rattigan

The only thing you can do really is buy the full retail boxed version of Windows XP Pro, if you can get one. Otherwise the method of attempting to upgrade you are using breaches licence agreements and places your client at risk.

If you can't get hold of XP Pro then you will need to get Vista Business and use the downgrade rights.

I am not sure how the network settings are any easier in Home to Pro, the general configuration of them is the same.

by whatspc

I have done an upgrade of home to pro many times without a hitch. must just be one of those random MS bugs or something

by freebird54

These sorts of things are common with MS products. I had ( anumber of years ago) a reverse issue. It was not possible to upgrade with a full version of the software! What the 'logic' behind that one is, I have no idea! I had to return to the original system, and delete WIN.COM, then the install would proceed...

I don't have a full EULA in front of me anymore (on Linux now) - but all of the earlier ones that I read specifically made mention of:

that provisions in it did not apply where local laws prohibited it. and

that invalidation of one provision did not invalidate any provisions that were NOT prohibited.

You can be sure that the lawyers are WELL aware that a good proportion of its provisions are unenforceable in many jurisdictions. In the US they have a further provision that the EULA be governed by the laws in a particular state - so as to limit the 'blocking' of as many of their provisions as possible.

It is certain that local laws trump their shrink-wrap license terms. When their license terms are valid, they are just another reason not to spend money on their products....

by mjwx

But the version of Vista is x64 and I think that's what's causing the problem. Either way were looking at downgrading to vista 32 bit or upgrading back to XP.

by deadly ernest

A summary about NSW trading laws:
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/shopping/refundsrepairs/warranties.html

Our consumer watchdog authority
http://www.accc.gov.au

A nice thesis on IT and copyright law
http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~cristina/students/dbs/davidStarkoffHonoursThesis01.pdf

In essence our consumer laws have minimum standards that all sales include as implied aspects and you can't sign those away in any contract or agreement. Much of the MS EULA does breach these and thus have no bearing. Once I buy something, I have the right to dispose of it lawfully - even a licence or lease.

And lastly from one of the versions of the XP EULA

4. TRANSFER-Internal. You may move the Product to a different Workstation Computer. After the
transfer, you must completely remove the Product from the former Workstation Computer.

by deadly ernest

The book says it's legal and possible to upgrade from XP Home to XP Pro. Aust law says you can legally switch the software around as long as you don't exceed the licences. The client has full legal copy of Win 98 and Win XP Home and a legal upgrade copy of Win XP Pro. The finished arrangement will have one copy of Win XP Pro and one copy of XP Home installed. A licence check will show the required number of legal licences to match the number of systems and installed software - how we get there is irrelevant as long as we don't have the same licence on two machines at one time.

BTW I've finished changing the systems over since I started this thread and the client is happy. It's all legal as per our laws, so I've no worries about it.

by ben.rattigan

UK law pretty much just means you must abide by the contractual agreement you have with MS or the OEM.

What is the copy of XP Pro you have?, upgrades come in a variety of forms such as OEM, from Win 98 etc..

Where did the XP Pro upgrade come from, was it purchased separate to any hardware or was it supplied with hardware? Was it supplied with the 98 PC or the XP home PC?

As per the licene agreement it should only be installed on the PC hardware it came supplied with, OEM software cannot be transferred at all and must remain with the hardware it was supplied with and be disposed of with it. The reason for this is that as far as Microsoft are concerned the licence agreement you have for the software is supported by the hardware manufacturer and not Microsoft, hence the OEM discounts.

You can upgrade the XP Home PC with either a retail upgrade pack, volume licence or an OEM upgrade (if it was supplied with the PC hardware that has XP Home on it).

You cannot use the XP Home copy on one PC to upgrade you Windows 98 PC if the copy of XP Home you have is OEM.

by deadly ernest

tested and proven in court.

The EULA is NOT a valid contract as a whole as it tries to invalidate various aspects of consumer law. Nor is it a negotiated contract or a signed contract - thus making the legal enforcement harder to do. Most of what is valid in the EULA is irrelevant as it's already covered under copyright laws and general consumer laws.

From the Intellectual Property aspect as in copyright the software has a number of protections to stop me copying it, except as allowed by law. It does allow me to use it the same as any other Copyrighted material - like a book I can store it how I like, place it where I like, and sell it on.

Because it is copyrighted and only copyrighted they can't insist I can't put it on another piece of equipment instead of the one I bought it with. A licence is a licence for the purchaser to use it - no restrictions on where or how they use it.

One idiotic aspect of the OEM EULA is you're only supposed to put it on the hardware it comes with, yet you can buy an OEM copy with RAM or a Graphics card. Let's see you do a long term installation on either of those, mate. :p Our laws recognise the right of the seller to apply conditions for discount pricing - but see that aspect of the EULA as an improper restriction on use.

Once I buy the licence I have a legal right to fair and untroubled use. They have a right to check I'm only using the number of copies I have legal licences for, but have no right to insist I have this licence on that machine.

Regardless of what version you buy, you get no free ongoing support from MS anyway, so their reasons for insisting it stays with the hardware are irrelevant. You get to choose who you pay for your support.

BTW The Upgrade is a retail Upgrade packet. The person was buying two PCs brand new, they had been set up for a business client as part of a roll out but excess to requirements (they do extras in case of install issues). One had Win 98 on it (client wanted that) and was supplied with the genuine Win 98 disc and the client wanted Win XP Pro so they charged a bit more and handed them a Retail Upgrade pack. The other was supplied with Win XP Home full and had a retail pack with the disc provided. I have no idea if what was installed by the supplier is what's in the packs, never checked that - both packs have been opened previously.

by ben.rattigan

I had a look at your links mate, we have a similar law its called the Sale of Goods Act, it doesn't apply. Software is like music or video, it's not tangible and therfore not supplied goods so this is where contractural agreements come into play and copyright laws apply. The only thing that will these laws apply to are the media in which the software is supplied on, that is what must be fit for purpose. You are simply purchasing the right to use the software, the same as when you buy a music CD, you are buying the right to listen.

Like it or not, you are bound like everyone else to the licence agreements laid down by MS and/or the OEM.

A further point is that in any legal action Microsoft demand a printed EULA, evidence of a Certificate of Authenticity (case sticker), delivery notes, receipts and invoices as proof of right to use their software.

Whether you like MS's licensing policy or not (and I don't), I very much doubt you would ever successfully sue them.

by tig2

He was doing the upgrade with a retail XP upgrade. Regardless of the laws in Australia, it is a legal upgrade path.

It appears that the problem is that he was upgrading an OEM with a retail. While that is perfectly legal, it introduced a level of complexity.

None of us, regardless of how we feel about MS would pirate software. I KNOW that DE would never consider such a thing- which is why he chose a more complex route to this particular upgrade. He didn't want illegal software in place, even for the hour required to make it legal again.

As another poster pointed out, Vista doesn't recognise itself in a legal upgrade path either. Don't know why. Perhaps this is a way for Microsoft to manage installed licence? Just guessing here.

by deadly ernest

to keep it tied up in court for centuries. The issue is the other way, if they want to sue me for not following their EULA, since some aspects violate our consumer laws, I don't have to follow those aspects of the EULA.

The software itself comes under the Copyright laws regarding copying etc. The use of the licence comes under the consumer laws as a sale of goods or services and thus has the implied requirements of fit for service.

The EULA goes beyond our Copyright laws and violates some of the consumer laws, those excess aspects are NOT supported by our courts and MS can't take me to court on them.

Regarding the fit for use. Recently my son went to buy a new computer game, since it was required to be played over the Internet, he asked if it was OK to play on a dial up connection - the sales assistant said "Yes it will work on dial up." When he went to install it, it failed with an error message "No broadband access. Game will only work with broadband Internet access speeds." Took it back to the shop, the previous version worked on dial up so they thought this one did, it doesn't. It wasn't fit for the purpose intended (play over dial up) and explained at time of purchase, so they gave him his money back.

The software code is Copyright, the licence to use is Consumer law as Sale of a service or Goods.

If MS take me to court, they have to prove I had the one copy on more than the number of machines I was licenced to have it on. All I have to prove is I have a licenced copy for each machine I have it one.

by deadly ernest

but it relies on the laws of the country in which the person obtains the product to support it, if the EULA has aspects that aren't supported by local law, then it has no legal standing and becomes an unenforceable clause. A contract can be drawn up in one country but finalised in another and then is covered by the laws of the country it's finalised in, any aspects that are legal in that country are invalidated, such invalidation does not always invalidate the whole contract. Contracts also require a negotiation aspect, EULAs have no negotiation aspect, thus making them neither hare nor hound.

We've had some court cases finding against certain aspects of EULAs but there still there as they are valid in other jurisdictions with sillier laws.

by now left tr

Is a one full install disk with key's that unlock the other versions & features. All you need is another key and not a disk.

by tig2

Another poster had mentioned that Vista upgrades had difficulty "seeing" each other.

Software is a funny thing...

by deadly ernest

all the data and settings info first. Funnily, when it was finished it had done a good In place upgrade and kept all the accounts settings etc.

The only problem was the need to provide some other earlier version of Windows for it to get over the first check routine. All went well after that.

by tom

I can't think of a verse where Christ taught that. He taught to love people as they are, but Christians are told to become (and it is a lifelong journey) Christ-like. For me, as a Christian to see another Christian trying to make his point like that is an embarrassment. But...as another poster mentioned, and to all who responded to me (all negative of course) I apologize for going off subject.

by tig2

To bring understanding and mentorship to the table?

We, as Christians, are constantly targeted as truly HATING because we are so inflexible. I honestly don't believe that was Christ's message.

Maybe, we should be helping this young man to know that we are willing to mentor him to a more positive communication flow.

by tom

Vaseline? His 2 paragraphs went way past vaseline. And I'd have the same gut feeling if it were a man using the same method of description but with his wife and a female CEO instead of Balmer. I just felt it was unnecessary. No self-differeniation from gays. If he wouldn't have mentioned he is a Christian I wouldn't have said a thing. But, again, off subject. I apologize for getting off subject.

by j.c.garrott9

I had exactly the same thing happen, only I solved it with za pirated copy of XPPro that I was given by a friend a couple of years ago, but hadn't used because I knew it was an illegal copy of a corporate distribution disk. I must say my desire to honor M$ licensing agreements has dropped by several notches!

by ben.rattigan

If you look and read carefully you will see that OEM software can only be supplied with PC computer hardware (an assembled PC). It is a common myth that OEM software can be supplied with RAM, graphics cards or keyboards.