The [i]LEAVING WINDOWS[/i] Project

but can you really see the Large Corps training all their users and every new user despite their so called 'computer experience' on a non MS-OS to boot?

Whwn most people think of 'computer experience' they think about using their home PC...AKA Windows. A Sad (for the end game) but true fact.

We should make a stand-alone website out of this. Wanna work together on it?

I am working with a variety of Linices as I have a group with widely divergent needs and they will all move away from Windows in the next two years. But the OS that lands in the vacated space must be right for the talent and abilities of the end user.

We are fortunate that there are so many SMEs in this forum when you want direction in the Linux/Unix space. And putting a Mac OS X machine in the mix means that you already have an environment built on the power of BSD.

I would strongly recommend that you add a BSD to your list. While outside of the capabilities of the folks I support, I will likely turn a box into Open BSD or Free BSD.

I agree with your rationale and applaud your decision. MS finally drove me out too.

When I get the main Asus box done at my house, I will join in the fun.

I am planning (hoping too) by year's end to be off MS...only to use it in necessitated roles as XP gets moved to Extended Support/Not supported status.

I really am sad that Microsoft has become the greedy behemoth.

Oh...and...hopefully by the end of the year, I'll also be helping to program one of the flavours of Linux :D

cheers

First of all, I'll pay for domain name registration and bandwidth if I could maintain and edit/co-edit the site at a host like squarespace or freewebs.

Checkout http://tlwp.squarespace.com/

It's not very creative as I only spent a few minutes working on it but I do have enough familiarity with squarespace's modular software to develop almost any type of site.

As far as alternative operating system expertise goes I'm definitely not an expert. I know people who are so that shouldn't be a problem.

I took a different approach than Tech Exec. I run openSUSE 10.1 as a dual-boot option on another HD in my main pc. I'm sold on the idea that an MS OS isn't absolutely necessary for both home and business users.

I have a ton of Links bookmarked leading to open source alternatives and use several of them but I haven't quite found THE site for weaning people off of MS products. I'd be happy to help create and maintain one if others could help by contributing meaningful content and ideas.

My TR "Contact" email address doesn't exist anymore but TR members can feel free to contact me at the email address on my profile page.

you can actually switch to using only applications written for Linux or MAC. Business needs dictate which applications you must have. The applications dictate which operating system they must run on. All the major business apps still require a Windows platform.

The only reason I haven't switched to SuSe Linux is Quickbooks. I haven't found a comparable Linux-based accounting app that will download banking transactions and handle payroll. If I could get all my work done using apps that run on Linux, I would have no hesitation saying goodbye to Windows.

As it is, the driving force for this revolution remains in the hands of the top application developers.

Payroll, :^0 I work cheep :^0 (cheep-cheep, but I bite, so be real carefull) No need for the SSN an all that, There really is no security in life anyway, and I'm not all that social(able) either.
Really this fits in with a long term project that I started around 5 years ago now. Other that certain specific graphic programs and CAD, it's mostly being done already here.
Let me know, I'd be glad to offer any input that might help. -d

.
Absolutely! People in Europe are leading the way on Linux adoption. Like many people, I started using Windows because it worked, and because everyone else was doing it. Once a change to Linux (or any other platform) starts happening, it should grow in an exponential manner. This general dissatisfaction with Vista may be a spark that triggers an escalation of leaving Windows in America. We'll just have to see.

Maybe we should just sit back and watch you do it, then, and not contribute much at all.

Did you happen to notice there was already discussion above about a community effort?

I think it's time for bed. G'night.

.
[I don't mean to intentionally be contradictory to apotheon here...]

I'm sure you know you'll probably get a cease and desist letter if you use their logo. But, that only means you've made the club!

leave it to the right wing snow loving elitest nutjob to judge someone else.

You and Anne Coulter should go have lunch and go think of other reasons that calling someone a "faggot" is okay for Republicans to do :P (that's a joke too...har har)

As I said...I'm gonna switch it to Linux...was zipping through the registration and just selected the first one in the list for a 1 year server hosting...didn't notice it was Windows til I went to the initialization. It will be Linux-based by the weekend.

I explained it to jdclyde...

I was in a hurry...just picked the first 1 year hosting package in the list, and didn't notice it was Windows-based until I went to initialise the site.

I'll try to get the Coppermine forum up...and create a few sections...sometime this weekend.

Thanks for the kudos...I needed it after the ass-chewing earlier from apotheon and the harassment from the Rush-wanna-be.

they locked the modify option...can't convert to linux...yet.

have to call the host and see if they can modify my site to be a linux site.

Will keep u updated

as I know really nothing about Linux, but I do want to move over and get to know it better.
ANy and all feedback should be looked at, and this is not a bad idea that you have. I may add for a good Server option as well (as far as I can see it would be one of the BSD servers).

This would need a good 'Basic' distro for non technical, a good 'Techie' distro, a good 'Business' distro and a good 'Server' distro, and focus mainly on those.

Then we can also list a page with other distros and links to good sites to look at and a breif description of what the benefit of that site will be.

We still need to have that cup-a-coffee sometime, so don't think you're gona get out-a here so easy. Besides, you do have a lot of in-put for this subject mater, even if some of the others don't know it.
So there..... :p -d
(and have a nice week-end too. ;) )
edited due to get'n old, and proud of it. :D

One point you totally ignored: If it was such a well thought-out, well-discussed, organized, in-progess movement...how come the URL was sitting out there for some URL capitalist venturer to buy up and hijack from TR members to use? Got an answer for that?

I never said I was going to dictate all the content.

Getting a site up doesn't mean I will be sole contributor or designator of content.

Get your panties out of a wad. I wasn't hijacking the concept...I tried to keep some jerk-off from buying up the URL and keeping everyone in TR (including your paranoid self) from having the opportunity to use the name.

I'll let you make the call, apotheon:

Do I sell it to TR or some TR member of your choosing for my cost, or actually donate my time and money and effort to try to get something going that people can use and contribute to and share their movement from Windows to other OSes with the world?

I'm sick of being badgered for trying to help out and donate my resources so it can actually move forward.

It's up to you. You make the call. I won't take grief for trying to be proactive and help.

Just amazing. Next thing you know, I'll probably get accused of wanting to hijack a plane when I book my next airline ticket too.

. . . apparently, I'm in the position now of "fight" or "get out of the way", so I'll choose the latter.

As polar opposites TechExec2 and I are, he does have some decent ideas in there if he were to hold true to them.

Nothing about this is "new". But a site that is simple, straight forward, without jargon, complications, etc is needed.

After all, the ultimate goal is to leave Windows not zealotry.

Hi, ALL

I tried such and experiment some time ago.

I used SuSE/KDE with Open Office with pretty much the same mix of other apps as the article's author. However I find that there are certain applications that were missing 100% from Linux. Such as:
-Visio. Couldn't find anything close to it.
-PDA syncronisation software (I use Palm OS -based Treo).

If only I could have these two things solved, I would have switched to Linux and said bye- bye to Microsoft.

PS: Well, actually it would be just great to have something like Outllok, which will allow CRM-like add-ons like Iambic Agendus.

PPS: I would be delighted to share my experience if there would be a web site to publish it.

Q. How many Linux advocates does it take to build a web site?

A. Three. One to propose it and two to argue over the details.

I didn't expect the blood to start flowing until the "choice of distribution" discussion got serious.

I came in here and told everyone I got the URL, and I'd start working on a site. From that, apotheon took it I was going to dictate everything.

I guess a little initiative is unacceptable.

And again...I will state to you all:

I went and got the URL because, believe it or not, there are people out there still buying up URLs in a profit-making venture.

Two of my co-workers do it. They will paruse site name auctions, open forums and discussion boards to find names they could buy for cheap and probably sell to someone for a profit...even if it's $10 profit. I was trying to prevent this discussion from having to deal with someone like them once it tried to establish itself on the web.

All I did was try to help. I never said I was taking anything over, or trying to dictate the content, purpose or direction of this discussion or the way the site would go.

Hence why when apotheon quotes me as saying:
[i]"I am gonna start working on the webpage this weekend."

"When I get the site running, I'll let you all know."[/i]

He takes that to mean I hijacked the idea, when all I meant was I was going to get a start on the thing so there was no "This site coming soon..." sitting out there.

And hence, why I have offered to sell it to TechRepublic or some user of TechRepublic to shut up the arguing.

I hate strife.

I hate conflict.

And most of all, I hate being accused of having ill motives when my intent was to simply secure the URL for use by TR members to help the world move from under the umbrella of control of the monolithic absurdity called Microsoft.

Again...

I'm sorry I tried to help.

I'm sorry I was proactive.

I'm sorry I spent my own money.

Take it as you will. I'm nixing the idea of putting up a forum for people to start posting in now until someone buys it from me, or until apotheon gives me his blessing to start building a framework for people to use. Seems as tho I have to get his nod before I can be a nice guy.

I'm not into being badgered for trying to do good for TechRepublic users, and the movement to get the world from their dependency on Microsoft.

And if you all disbelieve I am into moving into Linux myself, a certain Linux-interested TR member (who I won't name without his consent) can verify I am...he's been trying to help me troubleshoot a problem with getting WPA to work with the new motherboard in my gaming machine for about 3-4 months now. And, I have moved my music editing machine to Musix Linux (just upgraded it to 0.99 last night).

Anyways...again...I am sorry I tried to help.

By 8am, 10 March 2007, the site will be a PHP/Linux-based site.

.
This appears to be much like starting a rock band. Sometimes the squabbles are louder than the music.

Too bad, really.

There is a way out of this. If things are not going quite the way you want, just lead off in your own direction. Maybe some of the others will follow you.

The bickering and "that was my idea" posts that are going on here just identify the problems that the Open Source Community bring to the table. It is also one of the reasons many do not want to go there in the first place. I don't think that was the best advert for the I'm Leaving Out the Windows project.

Why not Just Start over in a new thread and call it 'CatFlap Beta' - meeeeeeawwww.

That or sit in a cave - they had no Windows :-)

.
I'm sure you'll have no problem getting your website the way you want it. All the best!

That's the whole point:

I never tried to go in *my* direction.

I got a URL.

I told everyone I'd gotten it.

I said I was going to set something up.

Apotheon took that to mean I'd hijacked/commandeered/taken-over/stolen the idea.

That's why I have offered to sell the URL at the cost I paid for the URL, the hosting, etc. I'm not a power monger.

And as much, I am not going to take abuse or belittlement either for trying to help and be proactive.

If you'd like to take over the URL, let me know. I'll sell it to you for the cost I spent.

It will be ready to go as of tomorrow morning on a PHP/Linux platform for anyone who wants to build the site.

Again...sorry I tried to help.

It's not *my* site.

It's not *my* idea.

I never wanted it to be *my* site.

I never claimed it was *my* idea.

Again...I got it to try and help things move forward. I didn't want anyone to run into having to deal with a web entrepeneur who wanted $100 for the name and hosting.

Seriously if you're interested in the URL then e-mail me, Techexec2. I'll sell you the damn package I bought.

I'm not going to deal with this whole possessive bull$hit. It's just friggin absurd. It's what I get for trying to be nice and proactive and spend my money to help further the cause of getting the world out from under Microsoft, and to try and set up something that [b]all of you[/b] could use and contribute to in this effort.

You can have the damn ordeal, if you want it.

I'll just keep working with the one person from TR who's been kind enough to help me out in moving to Linux.

He knows who he is. Thanks man.

I can think of a few folks that might also want to contribute some input. They simply may not have seen this thread or wanted to avoid the discussion altogether.

The testing I am doing right now is rather broad- I want to go in the BSD direction personally but also have a mom in law who uses her computer as a tool. I have her using FF and some other tools now but will need to move her to a Windows-like environment when XP support dies. For her, PCLinux will be a better choice.

With the fiance, a BSD will work but won't be what he wants. However he is getting accustomed to the flexibility he has in the OOo and is exploring Live Linux. I don't know what he will settle on but he is at least open to possibilities. His son is already using Unix (Mac OS X in terminal window)and is equally open. I have him playing with Gimp (kid is a graphic designer).

At the end of the day, what we all are seeing is that we need to take back control of our computing lives. Till now, it has been quite easy to resign ourselves to MS. I think that we no longer have that option. Or if we do, it should be more definitively a choice as opposed to something we feel forced to.

The issues with Linux are really mostly based in the sense that it is something too obscure to be viable. While we know that is an incorrect view, many people get frightened or put off because they can't find the information they need to be successful. There are bright people out there who have developed a blind spot towards their OS because we have had so many years of little choice.

In terms of content, I think that we need to define the test plats and the apps that we are initially testing in phase one, two, and three. We need to level set commitment to the test cycles and define success criteria. And we need to teach me to not drop into Project Manager mode. (Oddly enough, I never use the phrase "success criteria" in normal conversation!)

I will do whatever I can to contribute. As I said, there are others we might want to draw in as well. But I think that it is a worthwhile endeavour.

.
Like I said. I think what you did was just fine. You really cannot be responsible for someone else's reaction.

As I mentioned in my first reply to apotheon, I think the website idea was great. But, I really don't have time to work on the website idea. From my perspective, any/all of you that want to do something like that should follow your heart.

but, I am not going to get into a "pissing match" with anyone about this. All I tried to do was be proactive and prevent headaches.

I have been trying to migrate stuff to Linux dual boots on all 6 of my computers so that when Windows XP support ends in 5 years, I won't be stuck being ignorant.

Like I have said...one TR member...again, I won't give his identity without his consent...has been helping me for 3-4 months to try to figure out WPA issues with my Realtek-based USB 802.11g controller on my Asus M2N32-SLi Deluxe Wireless Edition motherboard via email. He's my Linux hero.

I didn't want to take anything from you or any other TR member. I tried to [b]facilitate the growth[/b] of this project...not take it over.

Again...sorry I tried to help.

It's yours if you want to buy it.

Otherwise, it expires March 8, 2008. Backorder the URL now, if you wish.

I won't put any more money, time, or effort into it. It is not worth it to me anymore. I'll just help myself and people who come to me for assistance.

I never said you had bad intentions.

Here's how I would have handled it in your position:

1. Register the domain name.

2. Post in the discussion subthread further up the page where a website was being discussed, saying "I registered the domain name blah.com so we'd have it reserved. Since you've already offered webhosting space and already said that a registered domain name can be pointed there, I can set that up as soon as you get the nameserver information to me."

3. Also say "Just so we get something moving, if nobody objects, I could set up a website this weekend. I guess if I don't get any feedback before then, I'll get that going this Saturday."

See how that works? You work with the community, asking for input and offering to help with what has [b]already been set in motion[/b].

Instead, you did this:

1. Registered the domain name.

2. Said you were setting up a website.

That's it.

I think you have some issues understanding how a "community" works.

In any case, as I've already said, I'm perfectly willing to just get out of the way. I wasn't planning on responding in this thread again, but you play the victim so well I figured I'd explain in detail why there was a problem from my perspective.

Frankly, I don't much care who runs what, as long as it works out in the end. Go for it. Good luck. If I'm so easily ignored, though, I won't make an ass of myself by trying to get involved where I'm an unnecessary distraction.

Do what you want, dude. You obviously take me for some power mongering egotist.

I just tried to make it happen faster, seeing as you nor anyone else...including the TechRepublic corporate or community...had secured the name.

Anyways...It's no longer my concern.

One other point to make:

You said: [i]Here's how I would have handled it in your position:[/i]

Well...you're not me. So, don't go thinking everyone should handle things how you would.

And as for playing the victim...who brought up they'd been taken over when nothing of the such has been done? hmm?

Anyways...

You've gotten your way. I'm out of the loop. Hope you are happy.

I'll keep working with cooperative folks, while you try to determine how everyone else should act.

I sent you a "peer mail". Please read it with an open mind.

I have MASSES of links, etc that may be of some help. I have some preliminary trial and error... more error than I care to admit but I'm learning at an amazing rate.

I would like to see this get off the ground. I am willing to participate in any way that is deemed meaningful. I just want to see an effort to simplify the average users thinking about life in teh Linux/BSD lane.

I think people need alternatives and unfortunately, Linux almost provides too many. Open source is a maze to many.

You say that like it's a good thing. Surely open source software and profitability are not mutually exclusive. :-)

I have just noticed that this short and rather explicit domain name is currently available in .com, .net, .org denominations (and more). FYI.

"I have 100% confidence that there will be more moves by Microsoft that displease me."

Clearly a review 'with the intention of objectivism'.

Sounds Great, TechExec2!!!

I recently started playing with Mandriva 2007.

I do a lot of dvd video editing on Pinncale Studio, what can use on Linux?
Will my Sony digicam connect to Linux via Firewire ok? If I get the answers to these questions,then I'm swinging my home network as well, ASAP.

I feel the same way about Windows. However, why move to a Macintosh? In my view, Windows is designed by a committee, while the Mac OS is designed by one man. If you don't like the way he works - tough! What's more, if the Mac had 95% of market share, I wonder if Apple would be a benevolent despot?

Stick to Linux, say Ubuntu or Linspire (I know they've partnered), even for your notebook!

Still, congratulations, I am only running one Ubuntu desktop next to XP, right now...

I am a Microsoft lover who is slowly begining to change her mind.
I agree that MS is going too far by dictating how the the paying costumers can use their software and bullying them into submition, but not being that computer savy i will have to stick with MS liking or not.
Great article making me wanting to learn Linux.

First let me say that I'm not an IT expert. In fact, I'm pretty much an amateur with limited capabilities. But because of my work, I consider myself a "power" PC user, so I'm very interested in the Windows vs. Linux debate. My father has been running Linux on his PC for years, and LOVES it! I, too, am not liking the direction that Microsoft is going in terms of it's software and operating system, so this article was both very interesting and informative. My major objection to switching operating systems is document compatibility. I would love to be able to change operating systems and not be held hostage by Microsoft and the ever-increasing controlling nature of its software and operating systems, and now my compatibility issues seem to be a moot point.

I just have one request: Can you please post a step-by-step guide to switching to an all-Linux environment for those of us who are IT-challenged?

I left Windows last year. I run Ubuntu linux on my AMD64, and for the rare occasion I need Windows (i.e. opening a 'difficult' Word document that OpenOffice can't handle), I have a Windows 2000 Pro running in a virtual machine. (I downloaded the Service packs before they stopped supporting it - I suggest you do it for XP)

One Note: If you go the route I just mentioned, be wary of any updates to the linux kernel, as that tends to break Vmware Server.

Unfortunately, my wife is still mired in the Windows world.

Good luck to you, and welcome to linux and the world of free software.

Any time I read such a plan I look for two things: underlying cause for the decision, and degree of emotion.

I won't argue the underlying cause for the decision, as stated, because its as good as any other reason to switch.

But technical business decisions should not be made emotionally, and the language of the post is highly emotional. Given the challenges of such a switch and the fact the solutions named are no more perfect in many aspects than MS offerings, that emotion will cripple adoption and implementation if allowed free reign.

Good luck.

Wow! Such overreactions. jck didn't couch his intentions well and apotheon pounced on him. In response, jck became an abused victim...in message after message. When apotheon decided to set the record straight, jck couldn't even take the constructive criticism offered.

apotheon was right that jck didn't explain himself well, but apotheon assumed the worst of jck. A post asking about jck's intentions might well have clarified all and prevented the ill will.

jck didn't inject himself into the discussion ideally. Perhaps he's accustomed to being taken for a well intentioned participant rather than a usurper and didn't think about how his post would come across to others. However, when apotheon thought ill of him, jck took his ball and went home instead of calmly explaining his intentions.

You see, civility is important. Assume the best of others until proven otherwise. If there is a point of confusion or contention, assume the other party wishes an amicable resolution and seek that together until there is no recourse.

If something you write is misjudged, explain yourself and hope readers will take you at your word. If you jump to the wrong conclusion, be big enough to apologize.

My intention in writing this post is merely to smooth ruffled feathers and to describe a mode of interaction that will mitigate future problems.

Check out this knowledge base article. http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=931573
The deactivation isn't intentional, there was a bug in the initial release of Vista that caused some users to have to re-activate their previously activated installation of Vista. From everything I've read, after reading about this "leaving windows" project, I can't find anything about Microsoft intentionally putting code in Vista that monitors what software and hardware you have installed, and if doesn't like something, it deactivates itself. I put in at least 20 minutes of searching and reading to find any information to support your claims, but I can't find it. I'd love a link if you have one, or proof that this exists.

I am one that has already upgraded to Vista (and yes, I do mean upgrade) and I'm extremely happy with it. I think it's the slickest OS I've ever seen. So I will not be making any switch to another OS.

One more thing, I love when people say MS is greedy, as if Macintosh is non profit or something, or not out to make any money.

EDIT: Ok I think I may have found what you're talking about. But, according to this post http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/11/02/news-revision-to-windows-vista-retail-licensing-terms.aspx making simple hardware changes will not cause spontaneous deactivation.
Either way, you've got 30 days to give MS a call and clear it up.

I'm in line with you on most everything except itunes and quicktime(even though an old Powerbook guy). But my needs are simpler than yours. I'm retired and doing some writing, but these MS people are not the kind I want telling me what to do. I don't hate them, but they sure are off the track, aren't they? I'm in transition, doing dual boot, Linux Kubuntu and winxp, looking for clear blue sky and fresh air. Ffinding some right now. Cheers

if u want to buy it and do the site for everyone, I'll sell u the domain.

TechExec hasn't expressed interest, and I really don't feel like trying to contribute anymore.

Let me know. I'll figure out a way to sell it to you and fax u a copy of my cost from the host so u don't have to pay a penny more than what I did.

I've decided to go into the development side rather than "community effort" side. Not much into explaining myself when I've not wronged anyone here before.

Let me know.

jck