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Venting Frustrations

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by shellbot

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Ok, we've all been there haven't we?
You've had to take someone under your wing and show them the ropes. You try your best to teach them well and to be patient.

To make a long story short..6 months ago got asked to mentor a girl who had no experience in databases or development. She was given the task to make a few changes to an Access DB. Simple enoguh, sure...

Well, due to both her and I having multiple projects on, its been slow going. At first I spent weeks analysing the fully undocumented monstrosity..and I pretty much told her what she needed to do. Once she learned a bit, I let her try things out on her own..always under my watch. She did well.

Well, 2 months ago, she was ready to go live but we found a problem with the underlying data, so had to wait for someone to rectify that. So, 2 weeks ago..the data is fixed and its time to put the changes on the live app. It took her a long time..and then when she was almost ready to go she says "its not working right".
So..I tell her to go over what she did, make sure she didn't forget anything and get back to me..
Skip forward 2 weeks..I have spent 1.5 days looking at it, and its completely banjaxed.
Nothing we changed is working...
I asked her for her old test copies that she was using over the past few months so i could try and trace what change had gone wrong..
she deleted them all because they were taking too much space on her machine.
I asked if she had the very last one, ya know, the one that worked fine after all the changes..nope..gone.. al she has is the original, and the copy of the live that she put the changes on (which doesn't work).
So, I ask for the documentation, which I originally stipulated had to be done as she went along, and each step she took and each change was to be written down for future reference..
She didn't..she's got a 2 page document that she did "from memory".

So, because its been 6 months since I really did any hard work in this app, i'm having to start from scratch and poke around again.

My head is melted and I want to die.

If I had my way, Accces would be unilaterly wiped from each and every machine on the face of the earth.

62 replies

by notsochiguy

...but it may be time to go through e-mail archives and what not, and establish a firm CYA file on this.

Those that asked you to mentor may soon ask you WTF happened.

by shellbot

I'm not worried about that bit..they can ask and I'll tell em.
Not the end of the world, I can have it sorted in a couple days..

The project was kinda "we need a couple changes but its not high priority..we getting her to do it, can spec out a project plan and be around for her to ask questions if she's stuck"

Its all good, just frustrating as h*ll

by notsochiguy

In that case, I'd say hold onto the angst until you're involved in a physical activity that requires constant motion and stamina, and then let it all loose...great stress relief!!

Martial arts are good that way.

;)

by dadspad

The CYA is important, so write down what happened and her progress. You will get through this much better than it looks now.

You know she needs more supervision as she works. Have a calm talk about why documentation is important and make sure you get a copy of every supporting document she does. Show her how to back up all her work without filling up her hard drive. And, also make sure you get a copy.

Now, since you have already done a lot of training, build up her confidence and tell her to learn from her mistakes. It really isn't just starting over as she knows more about what to do. Periodically monitor her work and make comments (just for yourself) on her progress.

It is usually easier to do it yourself, but you can always vent here. :)

Jus don't tell her about TechRepublic at this time. :D

by shellbot

:)
I've a lot of notes and emails..I'm not worried about CYA..not that type of place.
They know I'm continually swamped and my part in this project was to answer questions when she was stuck..i admit I didn't spend as much time with her recently as I should have, but each time i checked it was chugging along nicely..

We'll be having that documentation talk later this week :)

Thankfully I sketched out the important bits and made a good few notes initially when I was analysing the silly thing .. I kept em all (as i do)

by ksoniat

Did this girl have any (apparant)
"apptitude" at all to be chosen for this task?!?

No docs - no version saves - no nothing. I feel your frustration.

With the amount of time you have spent, it sounds like you would have been better off either doing it yourself - or finding someone "new" enough to ask questions when they didn't really know the answers.

Hope you feel better soon. :)

by shellbot

She'd never seen access before..or any other database..or any other dev.

It was to introduce her to the concepts..but they've got her doing other stuff, so we both could only commit a couple hours here and there to it, so she'd often forget what she learned when she got back to it..

Would have been quicker to do it myself..but they reckoned she needed to learn it..

Thing is, they've got her doing other stuff now..she'll likely never touch any access stuff again..

Think i might just sort it out this weekend myself and call it done...

by forum surfer

j/k!!!

:)

Sounds like you have it under control and the cya part under wraps. Just drop some Visine in her morning coffee tomorrow and call it even.

:)

by shellbot

just had to freak out..mind went to jelly..

hardest thing to stand there at her desk and keep a mask of calm on face as she's telling me she deleted her old copies ...

its all good..i'll get it sorted (or go insane..i realllllllllllllllly hate access)

by forum surfer

and should be treated as such.

It helps me to picture myself throwing the person in question out of a 17th floor window.

:)

Hey, at least you have somewhat of an outlet to vent.

And I know what you made, I have some homemade peach wine that a backwoods uncle made at home calling my name. Mmm,mmm good

by shellbot

as its been going on for so long..what time do i pinpoint..
would be quicker to redo the work than spend the next week trawling through the past 6 months of backups..

haha..the lads wouldn't be happy.."eh, can i have the past 6 months of backups please"..

rofl

by observant

I can quickly sympathize with you for having to work with a complete spaz. I've had my share of them over my career. ... Now comes the "However comma".....

I have grown to become calloused when it comes to these situations (maybe it's experience, paranoia, or just curmudgeon-ism) because I would never let a novice have complete control over my data (live or archived) to the point of being able to delete a complete database. Although I don't care much for Access, it has it's place but in this situation, the loss of data is not the fault of the application. Rather, it sounds as if the configuration management process (if one existed) broke down. ? I do not know your particular work environment but I would not work on something or in an enterprise that did not have SOME SORT OF BACKUP PROCESS!!!!.... ?.

OK enough shouting for now.

by shellbot

its not a structured environment, the project was quite informal, but I was trying to follow best practice anyways..

we've lost no data..the orig app is tsil on the server, still works as it originally did..the problem is that after a few months of trying to tie up the ends and go live, we in a position where we have to start from scratch.
the copies she deleted were test ones, on her local machine, which I had told her to copy after every step she got working (zip the old copy yadda yadda)..

At first I wasn't terribly concerned, because I presumed she'd at least kept the last viable version...but doesn't seem so..

ah well, lesson learned..next time I'll have to be a dragon and insist on seeing each peice of documentation ect

by santeewelding

The notion of "Shellbot" and the notion of "dragon" collide. They bump into each other, and Shell prevails every time.

by shellbot

i remember taking an Access course, was my first foray into IT. I did it, wrote the exams and walked out with a paper saying I was qualified for Access development. I lit up a cigarette and thought to myself "if i EVER have to work with that thing professionally I'll die"

In the interview for my current job they asked me if I knew Access, I said yes. They then asked why it wasn't on my CV. I replied that I generally did anything within my power to never ever have to touch it.

Peach wine..hmmm..sounds interesting..has to better than the dandilion wine my grandpa used to make..vile vile stuff..

Have some for me :)

by forum surfer

OMG it even sounds horrible lol.

I'll take an extra sip just for you. ;)

One of my grandpas used to make some home strawberry wine that was heavenly, even back then when I didn't like wine. He also said it was guaranteed "to make the ladies clothes melt." Must have been something acidic in it, but he was right >:)

by shellbot

gross stuff..bitter..he said it kept him healthy :)

I've had home strawberry wne..nice enough stuff. My dads family were big into making thier own stuff..

Have a berry in canada called chokecherry..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokecherry
not so bad to eat, tasty, but make your mouth very dry..they do however make excellent wine..

by shellbot

I've been called a "User" haven't I?????

Best one I ever got was someone wanting a 6 month old database backup restored over the existing one..which I flatly refused...they couldn't grasp the concept that they'd lose 6 months of data.. arhhh < shakes head >

by shellbot

but don't do it again :)

we are all users in some way I guess..I may do level 3 dev support, but when it comes to hardware and networks I'm more of a "the thing over there is doing somehting weird" type of person :)

by shellbot

down a lot since the orginal post..
:)

Watched the ducks on the river for a few mins on the way home..always calms me down..

by notsochiguy

...when I'm in a bit of a rage, and then go somewhere relatively scenic to get calmed down. Lou Ferrigno gives way to Bill Bixby.

:)

Have a good evening!

by forum surfer

As a kid, I remember an old guy up the street. Lived in an small, rickety old house with no ac and wood burning stove for heat. Never wanted much, happy old fart. His kids were well off and he wouldn't except money or gifts from them (there were brats anyway, regardless of their success). :) I took Christmas and Thanksgiving meals to him since his kids were too busy. Actually I took him a plate the entire time I lived in the area (within an hour or two's driving time) up until he died. His kids always pissed me off. They offered him a better house and a Mercedes, but none of them took the time to sit down and talk.

ANYWAY...yeah I get sidetracked ez...he walked 2 miles everyday to the store regardless of the weather. Once at dusk and once at dawn. Each trip he bought a 16oz can of Budweiser and a pack of filterless Pall Malls. Couldn't have been too unhealthy for him, he died at the ripe old age of 104 in his sleep. Loved that guy. He always had some words of wisdom to reduce things to simple terms and make life seem better. Lol, my favorite saying he had was "Every day above dirt is a good day and a gift." Always seemed to make my problems seem selfish or childish and put me in a proper perspective. Makes me sad that he died before my son was born since he seemed like a grandfather to me, I would really have liked for them to have met.

by shellbot

My grandpa was awesome..smoked and drank like a sailor..he made it to his 90's. a real good guy though, lots of word of wisdom..
i remember when he caught me smoking when I was 13, he said if your going to smoke, your not going to be a dirty sneak about it..have some b@lls and do it in public or not at all.
then he rolled me a smoke..with his own homegrown tobacco..a bit fat one and said smoke this and i'll say nothing more.
holy cr@p..i smoked it allright..but man was i sick...thats harsh stuff when not treated with a million chemicals!!

good times..miss him..I used to bake stuff for him all the time..he liked chocolate cake and apple pie..as long as it was made from scratch..which i always did for him..ah, now i getting all sentimental..
blah

by jackofalltech

I inherited a metrics tracking system (emails, tickets, phone calls) that was cobbled together using BOTH Excel and Access by a guy who used to run a help desk. ...No proramming experience. ...No previous Excel or Access experience.

I'm not allowed to re-write it because "... you have more important things to do..." but I am expected to keep it working. Sigh.

by shellbot

Get in this morning..machine won't boot properly..and guess who'd got all yesterdays work on her local drive?
(yes i KNOW...but we short on disk space at this point in time so had to keep it local for a bit)

Doing checkdisk now..keeping fingers crossed...

by ksoniat

We had some great neighbors that we played cards with and shared meals in or out with. They actually had kids our age ( in Michigan)who we enjoyed when they visited.

When our kids were born they became "vicinity grandparents". They are no longer our neighbors, but we still keep in touch. Those relationships are always special. :)

by jck

Can you fire this person and hire me? Please?

I'll even pay the ?1500 fee for work authorisation.

I'll even help you get Access wiped from all the machines. I'm an expert at Office removal ;)

Hope your day is getting better, Shell :)

by shellbot

you know I would if i could , hire you that is :)

hmm..i could put you on my company payroll..can't afford to pay you anything..but technically you'd have a job :)
can you do any accounting? I could pay you what i pay my accountant if you could do that side of it..
I'd even give yo a posh title..I'm Company Director tho, so ye can't have that..

Day is getting better..so I'm going to put my head down and roll with it..I'm leaving acess alone today, can't face it..might take it home and get it sorted over the weekend.. :(

by jck

No pay is hard to live on. Can I at least live in a corner of a room free? And use a shower? And maybe get table scraps? And one can of beer a week? lol ;)

Actually, I could do the numbers. Just not legally certified to be do accountancy in Ireland. I could probably go to school for it though. Accounting is not that complex.

Posh title? Hm. Could I be Chief Geek? ;)

I'm glad your day is getting better. I'm in the middle of a DB issue too. Proprietary DB that institutes its own key generation/tracking structure instead of using built-in sequences and all...yet it still depends on some of the deployed DBs features...so it's one foot in the proprietary world...one foot in the enterprise DB world. Ugh.

And, you should not take it home and work...unless you get paid. You deserve downtime :)

by shellbot

I hear what your saying, but regardless of the type of issue..its access..and access is ick.

Half the problem is that I'm forced to spend my day working on something I despise..
Gets me cranky

by dwdino

All you need is VBA on top of Excel to handle any enterprise requirement.

Wouldn't you agree?

:P

by jdclyde

Make the little @##@$#@ submit her documentation on a regular basis, like homework. Make SURE she is doing it, and she is doing it correctly.

Not done correctly, send her back to do it over, more clearly.

I "assume" you have made it clear she is NOT to delete anything, ever ever ever again? :D

If she is running out of drive space, backing up to a cd/dvd/external drive will be provided for her as part of the documentation process.

Wow, deep breaths [i]~insert some smokers cough from you trying~[/i] and relax......

My rant will be in a few days after I found out how bad the damage is going to be....... :( Major vendor issue.

by shellbot

I just don't care about the documentation.
I just want to get it working!!

Half the problem is there is not 1 iota of documentation for this app. Was written by a student that did work experience here about oh..10 years ago? Lets just say its not pretty..hence half our difficulties.
the best thing..the most IMPORTANT table in the entire thing is called..wait for it...
"Test"

Thats the type of headache it has been.

Good luck with yours..rant away and give us the details :)

smokers cough..bahhh..b!te me JD :)

by dahak ii

I like the one from Roswil. It has an external power supply included. Saved local data bad non-booting drives many times.

by jck

If you need VB/VBA/VB.NET programming, make me an offer. ;)

Did I mention I come with my own version of VB.NET 2003 Enterprise Architect? lol :D

by shellbot

your own version you say?

I tell ya..a guy that has his own Enterprise editions..now thats hard to come by these days.

]:)

by shellbot

disk space is sorted now..we do have drives , and usb's ect...
but i was just leaving it local for the night...I know I know I know..

taking an image of my machine before i go home tonight..way to much software which is not part of the standard clone..I was having a panic attack at the thought of having to reinstall it all!

by shellbot

Its yours.. if ye like salad there's plenty to eat..
Don't need to be certified to do the numbers, I could do them myself...but really..you've noticed my math skills? And heck, I can hardly remember to send in my reciepts at the end of the month! which reminds me...frikkity frikk frikk...

< shudder > proprietray DB < /shudder >

Hey, I am the queen of 9-5 Mon-Fri man...i'm just so desperate to see the back of this thing..i'll gladly give up a few hours..I won't bill them for it, i'll just take a fri afternoon off in the enxt few weeks.

by jck

I love salad. And, I can clean house too so I am no-maintenance...I pick up after myself.

As for math skills, got a minor in maths in college so I do it all up to about Operations Research and Matrix Algebra. Accounting should be no problem, as long as I learn the tax laws and what not.

Don't blame you on the trade-off thing. I'd do that too here, if they'd let me. But alas, it's work work work...then no flex time. booooooooo hiss. lol

I'm thinking of dumping my house soon, and just renting up here near where i work. $500-600 a month cheaper in cost, plus I'd save about $200 a month on gas too.

I could save up real quick for a move to Ireland. ;)

by shellbot

sold house and rented..everyone thought we were nuts.. then the cr@p hit the fan last year..suddenly we were "brilliant"

gobshites...

by jck

And, I can write code to hookup to any and all DBs, including SQL server...or if you decided to go with a no-cost DB solution...MySQL or others.

I can even make a nice pot roast. Aren't I tempting? :^0

by jdclyde

no Shell, the noun not the verb, get back up off the floor..... ;\

Do ducks chase you too?

I had a momma goose chase me two years ago on the golf course. I think it thought my golf ball was an egg and I was stealing it? :0

HSSSSSSSS!

Thought I was going to have to ruin my 9 iron to defend myself!

by shellbot

been years since i had that!

aarrhhh, makin me hungry...that apple for lunch was a long time ago :(

d@mn this diet thing!

by jck

I best not mention how i can make christmas candies too ;)

did I mention mom taught me to cook and clean so I would be independent? :)

by shellbot

only 900 a month :)
It is ballsbridge after all..river on the doorstep..herbert park..close to the embassy in case you need it..

absolute bargain ]:)

by shellbot

my granny makes some sort of coconut candies at xmas..mmmmmmm..lovely...havne't had them in years..might have to head to canada for xmas in the next year or two

now stop it..no more food talk!

by jck

Pay = $0 + fee for accountant if i can do it for you - your recruiting fee for yourself for recruiting me there ;)

Rent = $900

living costs = soap + shampoo + food + laundry detergent = about $150 a month

Hm. I might have to tend bar or sell myself on the quay to make up the difference lol ;)

by jck

if you do, I might try to sneak in your suitcase and stow back to Ireland. ;)

I have seriously thought of working as a "qualified" person to get the work auth. there, but then working a 2nd in something like door security or something to supplement it for cash (PC repair or even janitorial work)

It's been regularly here in FL 32C-37C every day since the first week of June.

Time for me to move somewhere a little more cooler yet moderate. So once I turn the house over or short sell or something, I will be moving.

Oh, I found out...Obama's mortgage assistance doesn't help you if you took out a 2nd mortgage...just your primary.

So anyone who took a second to say replace their roof and AC on the house...get no relief.

Blah...I should just turn the keys over, quit my job, declare bankruptcy, go on the dole, and save my $s til I have $30k to move.

Did I mention I make good pecan pralines? :D

BTW...how big is that spare room again? ;)

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