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By maxwell edison ·
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A pilot usually knows as much about meteorology as anyone...

by X-MarCap In reply to 1

If he wants to grow old someday...

Most of the people I checked out on a list that had their names attached were education PHDs. I never did find a group that were really using the best reporting of weather world wide, FAA-NOAA world wide weather measurments...

This would only give 65 years of US data, but Where I live in Ohio we are averaging -9 degrees below measured average highs. June and 48 at night, Brr!!

We have set multiple month record lows for this time of year. Why are record lows blamed on global warming?

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quite simple answer

by Dr Dij In reply to 1

conditions back then were different. oxygen levels or other gases were likely much different. for much of earth's history, oxygen levels were low and the envt was much dift.

like you, this person appears to look at the evidence selectively. as an expert who looks at climate ages ago he may not be someone who models current climate. all evidence available says that the planet has warmed considerably and will continue to do so.

(short of us putting so much particulate cr*p in the air that large amounts of the sunlight is reflected back into space - nova last night, large parts of the earth are getting 10 to 30% less sunlight than the last 65 years, due to pollution particulates, which cancel out part of greenhouse gas effect of warming)

the other thing is that us govt testimony from 'experts' tends to pick and choose what they want to hear. one 'expert' telling (previously pro-allowing us to warm) congress what they want to hear is quite different than a peer reviewed paper.

quite possibly he said this so that it would be taken, out of scientific context of reviewed paper, as 'fact' by idiots like Rush Limbaugh, who also pick and choose what they want to hear, and quite frankly pick facts that are just made up.

- as we all know, everything said before a govt committee MUST be 100% fact. Good examples are Barry Bonds saying he doesn't use steroids - which is also a good example of govt concentrating on the important issues. forget warming, crime, global politics. what some idiot baseball addict uses must be important.

to the second poster, increased warming actually increases variance in climate as winds and weather patterns change and amplify.

and combining this with the second trend of 'global dimming' where vast pollution particles cause sunlight to be reflected in some areas, there WILL be areas that are colder than usual due to more cloud cover.

Unhappily the particulates only reverse part of the global warming caused by the 'thermal blanket' effect of greenhouse gasses.

Give it up, Max. You'll always be able to find someone who says it is NOT occuring. Do you really ignore all the other evidence?

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by maxwell edison In reply to quite simple answer
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My immaculate qualifications

by Dr Dij In reply to 2

are that I am willing to
A) look at both sides
B) look at all the data
C) not look for data based on a pre-defined conclusion
D) separate out what I WISH was happening (no global warming) vs what appears to ACTUALLY be happening
E) separate out blame for same events vs a cold-hard look to see if it is real
F) separate out emotional attachment to an economic system (e.g. capitalism which we all love but is only partly to blam) vs the actual effects on the planet.
G) separating out fear of possible solutions (e.g. we may destroy the economy or take away Max's big polluting car) - in the end, we'll find a solution that does not impinge on our freedom of choice or destroy the world (or US) economy. Hey, I consider myself a Libertarian too, but one that takes responsibility for my actions.

in the end, it doesn't matter what caused it, in determining the effects, what caused it is only important in finding a cure.

Again, I'm curious, Max, you seem to be waffling: do you deny global warming is happening or simply deny that is is mostly man-made? I seem to see conflicting statements in your posts.

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by maxwell edison In reply to My immaculate qualificati ...
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CO2 levels higher in past

by Dr Dij In reply to 3

that was well reasoned. I may not agree with you but I'm convinced you're not a raging polluter loonie.

530 million years ago there were NO land plants. Most likely having no land plants lets CO2 levels get much higher in atmosphere. I'm not sure about 430 million in your post, but conditions were certainly much dift from today.

Natural changes and warming often happen much more slowly than those caused by people. THIS is the problem. whether manmade or natural, we can adapt to slow change. but if fast then is problem. I can't comprehend how hundreds of billions of tons of CO2 in atmosphere, and being gas, it difuses widely, can NOT affect the climate.

And the big chuck of CO2 is manmade. it would even be WAY higher if oceans didn't absorb much. it eventually can precipitate out as limestone at ocean bottom, but appears we're overloading the recycling system.

saying volcanos or ants, etc cause warming / cooling is true but irrelevant because it is the net change from the current reasonably static levels that are naturally present that matters, and all manmade activity is ON TOP of the natural effects.

I'm sorry you don't care. You probably don't care because you think it will be too long term. I'm convinced it will be shorter term. It may get uncomfortably hot before I die, and certainly before my kids die.

I have a built in survival instinct that is long term. It would seem if you were ruling the world we'd all die off in a generation or two, unless, as it gets worse we do something about the problems (if there is anything we can do, as you mention).

Simply speaking I'd suggest conversions to alternate sources to the degree is economical. Solar and wind are both very economical. unhappily they are being blocked by people concerned about tv reception in some areas (and birds).

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by maxwell edison In reply to CO2 levels higher in past
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earth warmest in 2000 years

by Dr Dij In reply to 4

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_on_sc/global_warming

I see what you mean but disagree. Sure, I don't 'kill myself' over it. Because I like to look long term, I'm worried that the heating will cause massive eco disruptions which could hurt many and kill many more.

The problem is, by the time it starts bothering you, it may be irreversible.

And you may die before that but your descendants, if any, and other people will have to live with the earth as it then becomes. We may do enuf horrid things to the earth to create a stagnant cesspool of the oceans, and seering deserts of the land..

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5

by maxwell edison In reply to quite simple answer
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Hey Max - I thought you knew that ALL zealots

by Deadly Ernest In reply to 5

only pick and choose what they will support their quarter thought out bigotry, and anyone that disagrees with them is either 'stupid', doesn't count, or is a reactionary.

Also zealot has a new meaning of: brain dead idiot.

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