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1st Amendment

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I think Tech Republic should abandon the "1st amendment" (insert own paradigm for those outside US) for its site and use their editors as censorship for threads and comments. Stupid people with biased, ignorant, or poorly articulated thoughts should not be allowed to post comments. I should probably be included in that category.

64 replies

by dc guy

I know people who only come to TR for the bulletin boards. I have to admit that even I sometimes go for days at a time without reading any of the articles.

We're living in the Jerry Springer Era. People like to read and write gossip. "Stupid people with biased, ignorant, and poorly articulated thoughts" are now considered to be unpaid entertainers. (Well, I guess gangsta rappers get paid but that's a special case.)

If you've ever stared with your mouth open at "American Idol," you've noticed that many of the contestants are just awful and don't have a chance of winning. While you and I might be embarrassed and saddened that they arrived full of pride and enthusiasm, believing they were selected for their artistry, and then went home ridiculed and humiliated with their dreams shattered rudely and condescendingly in public, for millions of people that's what counts as entertainment.

Apparently the same people who watch "American Idol" read TR.

BTW, one of the things that rankles me about TR's lack of editing and censorship is the absence of spelling and proofreading standards. Please look up the word "amendment."

by say2joe

No need to look up the word. But, thanks for pointing out the spelling error. A spell checker would be a "nice have", but so would the motivation to make sure I don't have any errors in my posts. I like your comments, and I don't watch American Idol for the reasons you cited.

by mjwx

Smart people talk about ideas.
Average people talk about events.
Dumb people talk about other people.

I've forgotten who said this but he was smart.

I like the idea of "Idiot Control" but I like the idea of "Freedom" even more.

by onbliss

I used to come here to read articles about 4-5 years ago, these days I come here just for the discussions, that too the non-technical ones :-).
Being a developer I find several other sites to turn to for software development News, "How-Tos", Tips etc.
I consider this the perfect place to exchange thoughts with other tekies.

by jdclyde

TR has evolved to a place for TECHS, instead of a JUST a place for tech.

In the dry "just the facts ma'am" sites, people look something up and leave.

Here, people hang around the water cooler, and exchange ideas.

Which is going to get more people to look at the pretty ads on the pages?

A freer environment also allows for people to feel more at-ease.

If people get out of line, the other members either ignore them, or chastise them at their leasure. If people get TOO out of line, THEN and only then will TR lower the hammer.

I like it that way. Let us play like mature adults. B-)

by jkaras

I'm not sure I get where you are going. They remove questionable material. They dont however determine whether it is a good thought or not. They ban subjects like curse words, child brutality, and so forth. Subjects like Atlantis is still here on earth and they are controlling our leaders to create a cattle society is a stupid comment or thought, but they are not going to read every post to determine what is good, bad, or otherwise. What hits their moderator filters and complaints works just fine. He who has the gold makes the rules, and theirs are just fine in my book.

Who do you feel could judge objectively not being offended by some post of this, that, or the other? Conversation is based off good and bad ideas that seek and ferret out the truth. The people engaged are responsible for not only what they say, but how they interpret what others are saying. Sorry no easy button is applicable. If something is stupid or crazy most people can tell fact from fiction, if you cant well sorry about your luck, lol.

by say2joe

I don't think it's difficult nor is it problematic to discern fact from fiction or (as is applicable to my comments) mindless or overtly biased banter. I simply don't want to wade through aphorisms, such as my own, as replies, to get to something more substantive. Also, it takes twice as long to read through a reply, such as yours, that is poorly written (from a grammatical standpoint) than one which is well thought out and proofread. My intent was simply to say that, perhaps, we can all aspire to higher personal standards but a medium such as this web site might be better served by a bit more moderation and editorial control, for the "greater good" of everyone.

by jkaras

How many moderators are going to police the grammer and content? What should be the penalties? I'll look into your idea, if you actually produce a thought out plan rather than a snooty complaint.

Look at the amount of threads, categories, and discussion participation posts. They would spend more time policing minor issues for your enlightened perfection than actually running the site. It's a forum, get over it. I want real people acting real, not a faux professionalism so they can participate. Would I like some better written material? Yes and no, it's just not a big deal. If I dont like what the person is writting or how they are writting, I move on.

What greater good are you referring to? World peace?

My grammer is just fine. You understood my post, like anyone else's. If I want to be published, then I'll polish my writings, but not for discussions.

by jc williams

Who is it that determines that something is for the "greater good"? I am certain that there have been many a despot that thought that exact thing ? "I am doing this for the Greater Good of my people." As soon as the imperial "good" is asserted, everyone loses. I, personally, like the free exchange of ideas ? good, bad, or totally indifferent ? bad grammar and spelling included!

When I teach a class, I use the Socratic Method. I feel that that serves the students (myself included) well. Now, if you are wanting to promote using the discussions in that way, then I am also all for it. My students (undergrad and graduate), drop letters, misspell, use incorrect grammar, incomplete and run-on sentences, etc., in the newsgroups. That is tolerated. When it comes to a submitted paper, that is a different subject. Then I fully expect that the paper not only be grammatically correct, but spelling, citations, formatting, etc. are all required to be dead-on. I read each paper, and if the arguments are weak, then they lose points, if documented third party works does not support the concepts, they lose points. This is how a classroom situation works, but not a discussion forum.

How do you feel about using the Socratic Method to open and further engage the discussion?

by oneamazingwriter

people, most of whom are working and don't have time or the inclination to write and proofread everything they post as if it were an article for publication or a draft for a text book.
TR is a site for people to share information, and to rant, if they so choose, in that sharing.
TR is also a learning tool for many who might not be as articulate as you, but who are open to new ideas.
Without that 1st Amendment, your post could have been easily deleted because it was critical.
Criticism helps all of us to grow who are open to it.
The best suggestion I can make is to take what you need/want and leave the rest here. I may be one of the stupid people on one day and a brilliant person the next.
Some of the finest technicians may grasp concepts and be able to apply them in their work, yet may have difficulty in verbal expression or writing skills. Their input is entirely necessary to maintain this site.
As for the posts that may seem out of place...those same posts help me to "lighten up". I find that I do my best work when in a relaxed state.

by tonythetiger

are very subjective.

Additionally, if you got rid of the "most ignorant poster", there would be immediately a new "most ignorant poster", and that would repeat until eventually the last (and most ignorant at that time) poster was gone. Then where would we be?

by oz_media

Well you'd be looking for a new website to post on and I would be pretty damn lonely rattling around TR on my own. ;)

by jdclyde

You have no RIGHTS to say or do anything that they don't want you to do, because this is a PRIVATE server, and you have to obey an fair use policy to use it.

TR can pull anything they want, anytime they want. They generally don't, asides from the auto blanking of crude language.

If you don't like what is out there, learn to avoid the people that have nothing of value to add.

There is a saying, "there are no stupid questions, only stupid people". :D

by dc guy

"There is no such thing as a stupid question, but there sure are a lot of smart answers."

by jdclyde

you are not a Mr. Garison fan? ;\

It was followed up by "Okayyyyy, now can we have an answer from someone who isn't a complete retard?" :D

I love that movie!

by oz_media

Myself, Julian and GuruofDOS have all had threads pulled because SOMEONE decided to complain about them. And yet we see FAR more inappropriate threads these days than we used to. Friday Yuk would have been pulled in a heartbeat! We had one EXCELLENT thread pulled because someone was making phallic suggestions about condoms. Nothing even slightly offensive was said, one person whined and we all lost a great thread.

Actually now that I think of it, it was a thread about spam mail and penis enlargement. Something we receive all the time in our offices?!

by jdclyde

when Underage was running around, did I ever see a post pulled. The rest were before I was active in the discussions I guess.

It is nice now the "hands off" approach, unless it gets way out of hand. Stand up for yourself, and quit your crying or take your ball and go home!

Funny, don't see many people throwing a lobo tantrum anymore, just people sniviling like in this discussion seem to have taken their place.

cry cry cry, off topic , cry cry cry.....

by oneamazingwriter

What's a girl to do? I said I came here partially to learn the language. What have I gotten myself into?

Thanks (I think?) jd.

Now I have to go look up the list of comments you left on that post! (And I thought emoticons were tough!)

by jdclyde

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5100-22-5269527.html

The only thing that has changed is most places that used to use an "oh" now use a "zero".

Print it off and keep it by your system. I do! B-)

:) :( :D :x ;\ B-) ]:) :p X-( :^0 ;) :8} :_| ?:| :0 :|

The other thing to do, is when you find a discussion or blog like that, add it to your [b]Workspace.[/b] That way you can find it in six months when you need to show the next wave of new users how much you know! ;\

by jc williams

I was going to ask about emoticons at some point in the near/far future ... thanks for the link.

by oneamazingwriter

There are some that I cannot imitate.

Look over my shoulder...oh, right, you can't do that!
If this problem continues to exist you will be getting a private message. I need tutoring! Do you believe that one? I can get the techical stuff in time...it's the playful stuff that I mess up on! Go figure!

by m_a_r_k

You have the right to ignore any post you want. You have the right to call an innocent person whom you've never met biased, ignorant or poorly articulated. You also have the right to request that TR censor all posts. Why should you have so many rights when you are trying to remove the rights of other posters who post things that you do not like?

by valeriemichelle

volumes of core knowledge and some seriously jerky answers keep us coming back...don't fool yourselves. Ha! You love it here.

by jdclyde

yeah, this place has been good to me! :D

looking at the number one "hot discussion", "What an achivement...." pretty much sums up my feelings of this place. http://tinyurl.com/z5bjd

Thanks for joining in! B-)

by tony hopkinson

Now I wouldn't have included you in this category until you posted this.

How in this universe can censorship remove bias ?

It is a bias.

All posts should be balnaced, be their own devil's advocate ?

If someone goes overboard on the bias front, someone else will post an alternative, squint and you get somewhere near the 'truth' Whatever that is .

See above for an example.

I am going to try to cut down on the typos though, they are very distracting.

P.S. are you saying someone incapable of good 'english' grammar should not be able to post ?

by jdclyde

It is time we make the world become civilized and use REAL english. :D

How DARE people come in here, and not have at least three of their co-workers proof read everything they post? Don't they know you will get marked down? :0

;\

by oz_media

TR is not government, the first ammendment is not the right to free speech anywhere.

You should try taking the first ammendment challenge or something.

In what way does the first ammendment, or hinderance of free speech aply to a website?

The first ammendment has nothing to do with free speech anywhere except that the government cannot hinder your right to peacefully assmble and/or petition the government. It has nothing to do with free speech in public or anywhere else for that matter.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and [b]to petition the Government for a redress of grievances? The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. [/b]

I would say this is the most commonly misunderstood ammendment in your constitution, people use it everywhere as if they can say whatever they want anywhere they want and the 1st ammendment ensures that.

Shite, bollocks!

TR would not be TR without off topic rants and raves, completely tasteles humour and people shouting from teh treetops.

You can censor your own visit to TR though, click a different link if you don't care for the one you are viewing.

by jdclyde

of why liberals in general in the US have no crediblity.

There are real issues from all political parties, but when it is people like this are the voice of the party, is it any wonder they don't get taken seriously?

It would be funny just how stupid some of these people are, if it wasn't so scary that so many other people that are just as stupid listen to them!

by the admiral

You mean like:

"I actually voted for the 86 Billion dollar spending plan before I voted against it..." - John Kerry, at the time lead retard of the Democratic party.

Now that was a winner!

by oneamazingwriter

'Way to go, OZ!! Keep that up and my mind will not only open more it will be blown away completely!! My apologies for even mentioning the 1st Amendment! That excludes every government but the one I live under...DUH?
I LOVE the Internet.

by jc williams

When a bloke from "down under" understands the language of Law that the poster comes from, better then the poster themselves (even when they come from the "seat of power" of the U.S.), it nearly caused me to pi$$ myself! How rich!!!!!

It really does my heart good to know that others understand what most of Americans take for granted.

Seeing that this is a private site, not government owned or operated, the owner can censor it however they please, and I, for one, am glad they don't.

Now, if the government wanted to censor this site ? then the 1st Amendment would apply (unless of course the site was actually located externally to the U.S.).

by jdclyde

Oz isn't one of "THOSE" people!

Just a crazy Brit that got transplanted to become a part time canuk! :D

by oz_media

But I'm not from daaan under at awl.

I'm British, but your comments works either way I guess.

by jaqui

seen "community" sites that have far more restricitve guildelines for content being posted, and others with the same hands off attitude as TR.

guess which ones have the best community? with the least problems?
Yup, the hands off attitude gets far more respect from the community than the over controlled sites do.

If a post is completely inappropriate, we only have to send a message to one of the staff, and they will look at it and pull it if they agree.

I personally appreciate being treated like a responsible adult rather than a spoiled brat, it improves my opinion of the site to not have severe restrictions on the post content.

by oz_media

That's grammAr and content!!

I think they should pull your post; or perhaps, say2joe can go a pull his own post and leave TR alone.

If yUo can't reed bad speling qwik enuf perhapz yu ned to lern to reed betar.

Try one of them fancy lernin' books y'all heard about in the skewlhouse, stuck up, Yankee prat.

Oh well, It's getting late, time to go 'pull my post' and call it a night I guess. ;)

by the admiral

Your comments have been dually noted and given the proper weight. The censorship board of Techrepublic has changed your point of view to the following:

I think Tech Republic should keep the "1st amendment" philosophy for this site and use their editors in a creative manner to support positive threads and comments. Many people who are considered stupid with biased, ignorant, or poorly articulated thoughts in the mainstream are welcome to post comments.

- SARCASM CHECK -

Silly note $5.00
Great response $5.00
Seeing how many people post their mastercard number from spoof emails: Priceless.

by jdclyde

or like "I invented the internet"! :D

You got it! ;\

But you had a typo. It should have read "Now that was a weener!" :^0

by onbliss

As a developer if I hit a hurdle, the first thing I do is search the net using Google. Usually I find some good articles or blogs which give me an idea (in many cases the actual code :-)) to solve my problem.
If do not get the answer, then I post my questions on specific forums to get an answer.

At TR, I was reading generic material about being a quality and professional IT person. I liked to read articles meant for Networking, Admin, Managers, Project Managers etc. But I never got the feeling of getting an advice from real life people (that is just me, I know).

I found very englightening ideas, thoughts, tips ...actually in the discussion boards than in those articles. I felt as if I was talking to a live person or witnessing people having conversations/discussion than reading a life"less" article. If I ever get into the management, I will fondly remember some of the contributions from the fellow members.

by jdclyde

I have found some of the members here know more than the people writing the articles!

The articles turn out to be a real hit and miss, and many are too generic to be of much value now that I am past the entry level. In the discussions, I can focus on exactly what I want or need to know.

And then there is the peer support. Can't say enough good things about that. :)

by jc williams

When I read most articles, like you JD, I find them to be the "one size fits all" type. I feel that this is due mostly to the media and their desire to provide interesting articles, without sacrificing valuable real estate. Also, they feel (the editors) that if articles become too technical, then it will reduce the number of readers due to the presumption that most are in the neophyte to somewhat knowledgeable range.

Of the handful of ones I have written, whole sections have been removed "for a better read" by the editors. Typically these parts are the less generic/very specific parts. Sometimes, if the article points out a "major" problem with one of their larger advertiser's product, the wording will be re-written to soften the effect.

Most of the articles that contain enough meat to really be worth the read are the ones that come in installments, and I don't mean just part 1 & 2. A major article on the pros and cons of a technology or product, are now contained in "white papers" and not found as an article anyway.

If you want help on a subject, it will not be found as an article, like back in the 70's when Dr. Dobb's Journal was more like a newsletter than the glossy mag it is today. I could read an article on Pidgin and get the source code and how it worked, etc. where today, if there was an article on a language like Pidgin, it would be more like a advertisement than containing any really useful or pertinent content.

I say, let the masses ramble and keep it unedited, unless some dunderhead makes racist, crude, irresponsible remarks. Then, it should not so much be edited, as the person making such remarks should be censored by their peers or, if really offensive, banned (although we all know that it is really, really, really hard to make a ban stick).

by jc williams

So, is the opposite of "down under", "up above"? Why, oh why, would Oz not be Oz, unless of course he is the man we are supposed to be ignoring behind the curtain? :D

by jdclyde

but I suppose some here do just ignore him... ;\ or at least they try!

Heck of a bark, not much of a byte!

As for the whys and hows, you would have to ask HIM.

We had a similar misunderstanding not long ago sith Stargazer. Her original id was US_geeks_rule and people thought it was U.S. geeks instead of "us" geeks. She is over in the UK as well, and a transplant as well.

by oz_media

I worked as a branch of a music production company with a similar name, I work with two UK bands where the 'Oz' Media fits my position, it was originally part of an old company name though.

by jdclyde

you are just having issues because the emoicons changed slightly after the last roll out of TR.

Like I said in the last message, use a "zero" 0 instead of an "oh" o.

Another that is throwing you is the "|". The "pipe". If you were a *nix person you would know it! It is right above the "\" using your shift.

:_|

feel free to peer anytime, my dear.

by jdclyde

but that is ok. I will just take my attempting to be helpful brattieness to a corner to cry.... ~~sniff sniff~~ :_|

by oneamazingwriter

:_| May I cry with you? :_|

Where the heck is the hug emoticon?
Geesh! Geek sites truly need an overhaul!
Hugs RULE! (No angels...no hugs...this place is definitely male dominated!)

(((((jd))))) Thank you, and I'm sorry! :(

by oneamazingwriter

;\ I'd give you a cookie, but you being a Geek would get paranoid and think it meant that you had to keep coming back!!

by oz_media

Even I dhaven't used that one here for several years I don' tthink.

"You have a point, now you just need a hat t fit it." Yuk Yuk , knee slapper, guffaw!

by oz_media

The spending plan was changed drastically between the time he initially supported it and then voted against it.

by jc williams

when a Brit has to tell a Yank how it works :0

And all this time I thought that "you guys" didn't give a damn about the "colonies" after you guys wrote us off as a bad investment ]:)

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