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A Survey For American Workers

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American Government employees, please do not vote.

I propose that the federal government ABOLISH the paid holiday status for the following holidays:

01/17/2005 Monday M. L. King Jr Day
02/21/2005 Monday Washington's Birthday
10/10/2005 Monday Columbus Day
11/11/2005 Friday Veterans Day

I propose that the federal government KEEPS the following paid holidays:

01/01/2005 Saturday New Years Day
05/30/2005 Monday Memorial Day
07/04/2005 Monday Independence Day
09/05/2005 Monday Labor Day
11/24/2005 Thursday Thanksgiving Day
12/25/2005 Sunday Christmas Day

Survey question:

Do you agree or disagree?

47 replies

by maxwell edison

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I'm a veteran; the young lady at the bank is not. She gets a paid holiday off; I do not. What's wrong with this picture?

by jdclyde

DO spend that day (part at least) at our favorite cemetary for the gathering to pay our respects.

I looked into the service in the 80's but what I wanted to go into the recruiter informed me the only time they have openings is when someone retires or dies. No one was ready to retire and he couldn't tell me when the next was going to happen. Oh well.

Why do you find that should be removed while Labor day should remain? We owe more to our Vets than we do to our laborers of years gone by.

by tomsal

Columbus day is the most silly excuse for a day off there is. Let's not even go into how he didn't discover America, but yet we teach in our American schools that he did. And even if he did (which he didn't..lol) its stupid to be a day off anyway...wow so he discovered America, we should get off for that?

Your post made it seem like (or at least how I took it) as if either we all get off for the approved days or we don't get off.

Anyway I still disagree, the Vets deserve the respect. Now of course many people just don't care except for the fact that its a day off -- but we have no control over that. How many "African-Americans" do you think really do something on MLK day that's related to his remembrance? I know a few who just are happy its a day off and they go out shopping or to the movies or whatever.

PS. Non of this matters for me anyway considering we only get Thanksgiving day, Christmas day, 4th of July and Memorial Day off..that's it.

by dr dij

In the spirit of separation of church and state the feds get Christmas paid holiday.

BTW 'under God' was originally NOT in the pledge of allegiance.

(and George Washington also had a large patch of hemp like our Canadian buddies)

by tomsal

"In God We Trust" has been on US paper currency since the currency was standardized for the entire nation.

That said though (and keep in mind I happen to believe in God as well)...I think it might be wise to remove all references of God when talking about our federal government.

by jdmercha

I don't get Washington's birthday, Columbus day or Veterans day off. I do get the day after Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and New Years Eve.

by maxwell edison

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Government workers, by definition "work for us", not the other way around.

Why should you or I have to go to work to pay taxes on a particular day so that a government worker can get that very day off?

by jdmercha

"Why should you or I have to go to work to pay taxes..." ... to pay some wealthy congressman or senator 4-5 times what we make.

There is a lot more money wasted in Washington than vacation pay.

by maxwell edison

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How many private companies offer those days off as paid holidays? The only ones I can think of are ones who rely on various government agencies to conduct their business, such as banks, stock brokers, and other financial institutions. For the rest of the working-world, it's business as usual.

by dc_guy

You guys are looking at this from the wrong perspective. The problem is not that civil servants get too many holidays, but that the rest of us don't get enough.

In fact, we work too frelling much period. The average American work week has grown back to 49 hours, almost the same as it was in the dark ages at the turn of the last century. And few of us get paid for those extra nine hours, to add insult to injury.

Every company that's had the courage to try it has found that productivity soars and defect rates plummet when they enforce the 40 hour work week. In fact the improvements continue on their skyrocketing trajectory when the work week is cut back to the 32 hours our parents were told to expect in the 1950s.

One plastics firm found that by instituting a 4-day, 32-hour week, their profits increased dramatically, their customers were happier, and the best chemical engineers in the country were lining up to apply for jobs that had been unfilled for months.

The private sector takes its cues from the government. If the government stops letting its employees have these holidays, all that means is that our children will NEVER get them. Nice legacy to leave them, guys. My generation is being called "greedy geezers" just because we demand the pathetic social security we've been ripped off to fund for our entire lives. Your kids will think up some much meaner epithets for your generation if you're responsible for a return to Dickensian working conditions.

Work smarter, not harder. Being stingy with holidays is downright stupid.

by tomsal

I average about 47-49 hours weekly now that we are in a slower period. Was working about 60+ hours for a while when we had major infrastructure changings, installs, configurations going on. But that's just part of the job.

And that's how I see it -- how I feel anyway, is that the average American employer really squeezes everything from his workers for the pay he pays them. Which strictly from a business perspective on the surface folks will say "yeah but that's smart, its how it should be to get maximum return on the investment".

I'm not saying we shouldn't work our best for our employers -- we should and its our responsibility too. BUT I often feel when conditions are bad at work, moral is in the pits, the "head dog" is "barking" at you for the most obsene details that in the grand scheme mean little to nothing to the lowering of costs, raising profits or being more productive that the employer is getting WAY much for the money he/she is spending on you (even including benefits) than you are getting from him/her.

As the joke goes its akin to "legal slavery".

On top of that there are rules for rules, limited vacation times, when you do want time away you have go through a couple people, fill out paper work and be all within strict deadlines. Then even when you do that, chances are you'll get "hacked on" for the fact you wish to live life a little and take a week off.

But most off, I just wish employers across this whole country (USA) would read the reports that say Americans most productive, works among the most hours of any country in the world, etc. AND THEN realize we are all humans and our work shouldn't be our life -- just a means to pay for the fun of life! lol

by maxwell edison

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I think the whole idea of a "day off" for ONLY government workers as the "symbolism" of showing that respect is a friggin' joke. A true VET having to work to pay for a non-vet's day off is ludicrous.

These holidays are no more than an excuse for one of the two following reasons:

1. To give government workers yet another paid day off, while the rest of us have to work in order to pay for it.

2. A reason for labor unions to force double-pay for government workers who do work on those days.

by tomsal

I was confused by what you were trying to say at first, but I get it now.

Yes I agree...if the gov't gets off for something like "Veteran's Day" then it should be LAW that all non-essential business (police, hospital, firemen, etc.) must be closed.

OR get rid of the holiday all together.

by dc_guy

I had a paper published on this topic a few years ago. Sorry I can't link to it here without giving away my secret identity and being reprimanded for not representing the company properly. But I found that in IT and all "knowledge work" occupations, overall productivity -- which is heavily affected by quality dropoff -- is maximized at no more than 40 hours per week. The same discovery old Henry Ford made about 80 years ago when trying to achieve maximum alertness and coordination on his assembly lines.

The second-order effects of institutionalized, unreported and unpaid overtime are stark: a population with no time for exercise or a balanced diet; stress on family members and the family unit itself; concepts so idiotic they require new euphemisms such as the "power vacation"; whole new categories of necessities that erode the family budget such as nannies, extra cars, and a steady diet of convenience food.

People submit to working too long even though it's stupid for the same reasons they submit to driving to work every day when they have a computer and a phone at home. Inability to stand up to a stupid but strong manager, peer pressure, uncertainty over their own wisdom. Add a few darker reasons such as a dismayingly common secret desire to avoid raising one's own children, and we end up with people working our grandfather's (your great-great-grandfather's) work week but turning out shoddy software.

Working into the wee hours of the night for nothing more than a pizza, right under a poster on the cubicle wall that says "work smarter, not harder.

by maxwell edison

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100 Senators plus 435 Representatives (535 total people) times their salary of approximately $150,000 per year equals approximately 80 million dollars per year.

2 million civilian government employees times an average pay of $27 per hour times 8 hours of pay for NOT WORKING equals 432 million paid to people for taking the day off while we are working, paying taxes, to pay for it.

So compare your 80 million PER YEAR total salary for the Senators and Representatives to the 432 million PER DAY we pay the rest of them.

Source:

In 2003, the average worker paid under the General Schedule earned $55,871.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm

by jdmercha

A wealthy congressman can more easily afford to cut his salary in half, than an entry level government worker can afford to loose holiday pay.

Plus there are other options. Reducing federal holidays by 4 would save us $1.6B per year. Eliminating 2% of the government workforce would save $2.2B per year.

by montgomery gator

They would either get paid for working those days, or use vacation time if they really need to get time off for the day in question.

by amcol

I don't care that you don't want American government employees' input. You're going to get it anyway.

I am currently employed by the Federal Government, having spent more than 30 years in private industry. I know both sides...personal experience.

You don't like paying taxes to support our holidays? Do you have any idea what the comparative pay scales are like between government and private industry? I'm the CTO of a Federal agency...I won't name which one...and I'm here to tell you I took a $200k cut in pay to do what I'm doing right now. You begrudge me a couple of holidays?

Why did I do this? Because after 30 years I decided I'd made enough money and wanted to give something back to the country that made it possible for me to make all that money. And I was happy to do so.

Here's what I've found, being a Federal insider. NO ONE comes to work for Uncle Sam to get rich. The pay scales are generally about 20%-50% lower for most jobs. There are no stock options. There is no restricted stock. There are ethics rules that require we not accept any gift whose value is greater than $20. I can't be taken out to lunch by vendors, unless I pay my own way out of my own pocket. And believe me, I could go on and on and on and on.........

There are hundreds of thousands of young people who have come to Federal employment out of a sense of patriotic responsibility. They come to DC only to find they're getting paid at the low end of the scale in a relative high cost of living area. Real estate in the District, in northern Virginia, and in southern Maryland is out of control...way out of the price range of almost everyone. People are quadrupling up in two bedroom apartments.

Oh, I almost forgot. I'm at work every weekend. I'm at work almost every holiday. I'm entitled to two weeks vacation but never take more than two days. And on every single occasion, at least half the staff of my agency is in the office with me. We're no different from most other agencies. I know...I have friends in a lot of them.

Tell me a little more about how your taxes support lazy government workers who don't deserve the same benefits you do. Every single company I've ever worked for has offered twelve paid holidays...not always the same ones, but twelve days off in addition to whatever vacation and personal time you get.

BTW...exactly where did you get the idea that Federal workers get double OT for working holidays? What we actually get for giving up a day off, generally speaking, is "oh, thanks". Yes, there is a policy where you can take comp time for working OT...a maximum of 20 hours. That's 2 1/2 days, in case your calculator is broken. We got some extra time off, Mabel, let's not be late for the cruise ship!

Your argument that you work a specific day and pay taxes on that specific day so Federal workers can have that same specific day off is...I don't know, I just don't have the words. What's beyond preposterous? Can you account for every single one of your tax dollars in the same fashion? Which specific tax dollars of yours goes to defense? Which goes to the war in Afghanistan? Which goes to supporting the arts? Which of those specific dollars are you willing to give to the Federal government, if any? Maybe we should open that choice up to everyone...let people contribute specific sums of money to specific government programs, based on how they want their tax dollars spent. Just one question...how exactly are Mr. and Mrs. America supposed to choose from the 647 bajillion services the government provides, and allocate their contributions accordingly?

You know what the only additional holiday benefit Federal workers get is? Every four years, on Inauguration Day, Federal workers in the District and certain counties of Virginia and Maryland get an extra day off. You want me to write you a check for the extra taxes you paid so I could get that day off, which by the way I didn't take? I'll be happy to do so, send me your address.

by maxwell edison

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Okay, since you brought it up:

On balance, a government worker's base salary is equal to or higher than a comparable private sector job. For each exception you find to support your contention that it's not, I'll find a dozen to prove that it is indeed the case.

My sources are posted below. Please post your sources.

And then let's talk about benefits -- especially retirement benefits. I don't get any except what I save myself, and mine is typical of the majority of the private sector. So I work twenty years and get squat, while a government worker works twenty years and gets 40 to 50 percent of his highest salary for the rest of his life. Work 30 years, and he gets 70 percent or more.

Sorry, I don't buy your sob story.

(Cut and pasted)

The analysis compares the dollar value of benefits that various types of hypothetical employees earn in a year. The employees vary by age, income, and years of service, thus providing a broad comparison. The values represent only the portion of benefits that employers provide, not those that employees pay for directly. Comparisons are constructed to isolate differences in benefit values that arise solely from differences in provisions of the benefit plans.

On that basis, the analysis suggests that employee benefits represent a significant portion of the compensation packages of both the federal government and the large private firms covered by this analysis. Depending on age, salary, length of service, and retirement plan, benefits range from 26 percent to 50 percent of pay for federal employees and from 24 percent to 44 percent of pay for employees of the large private firms. In most cases examined, the value of the employee benefit package offered by the federal government exceeds the value of comparable benefits offered by private firms. The federal advantage can reach 7.2 percent of pay (see Summary Table 1). The analysis also indicates the following:

Federal workers covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) have somewhat higher benefits, overall, than employees of large private firms. The benefits of FERS employees are also more generous than those of their counterparts who are covered by the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS).

Federal vacation, holiday, disability, FERS, and retiree health benefits generally are more generous than benefits of the same type offered by the private firms. Federal health insurance and life insurance, however, lag behind those benefits in the private sector. How the value of CSRS benefits compares depends on the age, income, and years of service of the employees. Employees who are able to retire early do well under the CSRS program.

For federal jobs with pay near the level of their private-sector counterparts, the advantage in employee benefits would put the value of the entire compensation package (pay and benefits together) at or above that of the private sector.

http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=821&sequence=0&from=7

And what about base pay?

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm

And what about "unemployment rates"?

Private sector ~ 5.5 percent.
Government workers ~ 2.2 percent.

In 2003, the average government worker paid under the General Schedule earned $55,871.

The average income in the USA is about $35,000.

And considering the USA has a per capita GDP of $37,800, and considering that government workers do not contribute to the GDP since they don't create a "product", per se,.....well, draw your own conclusions.

Send the check to the American Red Cross - $235 will do.

by amcol

...for me to quote my own sources. I'll just use yours. Because your analysis is flawed due to your having cherry-picked specific sources and facts just to make your argument, so I'll do the same.

Let's start with the CBO analysis. The Congressional Budget Office. The arm of the Federal government charged with the responsibility for watching the money. No question every document that comes from that source is impartial and without an agenda. Let's ignore that, however, and take the numbers they've posted as the actual truth.

"Analysts have criticized benefits for federal civilian employees as relatively generous when compared with practices in private firms. In past analyses, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has cited such claims as a possible rationale for trimming benefits.".

Nope, no agenda here.

You say "a government worker's base salary is equal to or higher than a comparable private sector job". The following quote is from the Summary section of your CBO source, the first paragraph below the table of contents: "It complements a 1997 analysis in which the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) compared federal and private-sector pay. That analysis found that, on average, the federal government pays less than private-sector firms for similar jobs. It also offered evidence that low pay means that the government sometimes accepts less experienced workers."

Are we reading the same words here?

You complained about the Federal retirement benefits, as compared with the private sector. Did you take a look at the numbers for health insurance? Life insurance? Sick leave and disability? Those don't count?

From the CBO study: "the analysis suggests that employee benefits represent a significant portion of the compensation packages of both the federal government and the large private firms covered by this analysis". From the BLS study: "Although the Federal Government employed workers in almost every occupation in 2002, about 3 out of 4 Federal workers were employed in professional and related; management, business, and financial; or office and administrative support occupations.". Where you have predominantly professional workers, I think you'd expect that a larger component of their compensation would be variable programs. Why is that a problem?

Let's stop here, because now I have a question. You posed a survey suggesting the elimination of federal holidays, but your request for feedback turns out to be disingenuous because you obviously had a larger agenda. Put that aside for a second...how did a questionnaire about which holidays make sense morph into an argument about Federal compensation and benefits?

What issue do you really want to examine here? Let's put the cards on the table, shall we?

by maxwell edison

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Public versus private employment:

http://www.effwa.org/commentaries/2004_09_22.php

Did you know that 25 percent of government employees DO NOT PAY Social Security taxes, although they are indeed entitled to the benefits?

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03710t.pdf

On balance, government workers get:

Better pay.

Better benefits.

Better vacation.

Better holidays.

Better retirement.

Better job security.

Better "automatic" raises plus cost of living increases.

Better......

by tomsal

Federal workers get much sweeter benefits than the average joe American worker for one.

Secondly, I'll never feel sorry for folks who whine about days they have but never take off -- that's the choice they make. Folks here do the same thing...well I've never taken vacation in 983 years.... Me: "ooooh aren't you just the savior of the company, the anointed saint?" (NOT!)

My view if you truly bust your hump for your employer (private or public) you deserve to take off the time you build up for vacation WITHOUT feeling any guilt or nonsense over it. You EARNED it, the company/gov't gave you NOTHING.

As for the money thing, and your motivation for leaving all that money -- I can respect that..good for you.

Can't say I feel bad about the deal government workers have though even if you say is true about the less pay. (Btw, I know military folks get paid squat -- I have many close friends who complain about that all the time and they are military. My one friend makes only $38k a year and he's been in the Navy for about 6 years now as some kind of radar tech -- I forget the real name they use for the position).

by maxwell edison

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Man oh man, that's a long time without a vacation. If I had that much time accumulated, I could cash in the days.

Let's see, 983 years times 40 hours of vacation a year times $6 an hour (I'm not a government worker, you know) equals almost 236 thousand dollars -- about what a government senior manager position makes in only 18 months.

Of course, there would be Social Security taxes taken out of that, something that 25 percent of government employees don't have to pay, even though they reap the benefits, and that's about 7.5 percent; and another 1.5 percent for Medicare taxes; and another 30 percent for income taxes; and probably a 10 percent penalty because I didn't claim it over the past 983 years; so I would take home about 120 thousand dollars.

by jdmercha

They never seem to apply to me.

"Here's what I've found, being a Federal insider. NO ONE comes to work for Uncle Sam to get rich. The pay scales are generally about 20%-50% lower for most jobs."
I've been applying for federal jobs. The jobs I'm seeing are one step down, but double my current salary.

"There are no stock options. There is no restricted stock."
I get none of these either.

"There are ethics rules that require we not accept any gift whose value is greater than $20."
Well you've got me there. Let's see in the past 10 years I got fed pizza once. And... and.. and.. Come to think of it that is all.

by montgomery gator

amcol wrote: "Every single company I've ever worked for has offered twelve paid holidays"
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The only private sector jobs I know of that got 12 paid holidays were contractors that work closely with the federal government. I get only 7 paid holidays at my current job, and that is the most I got at any job I have had. State workers have it even easier, at least in Alabama. Alabama state workers get all the federal holidays, plus Confederate Memorial Day and Jefferson Davis' birthday. They also get Robert E Lee's birthday, but that is together with Martin Luther King, since they share a birthday. And on top of that, Alabama state workers get Mardi Gras off as a paid if they work in Mobile (Mobile and Baldwin counties), and if they work outside of those 2 counties, they get a "floating" paid holiday that can be used anytime instead of Mardi Gras. And they get state Inauguration Day off, also, when the governor is inaugurated.

Regarding the "647 bajillion services", we could do with less of them. Let the Federal government concentrate on National Defense, security, foreign affairs, currency, and trade issues, and not worry about the other stuff that was never intended by the founding fathers as federal government functions.

by maxwell edison

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You took it off on a total compensation tangent, not me. I simply replied to your message where you couldn't "contain yourself".

And as to my "source", I posted the link (multiple links and multiple sources, actually) so anyone who wanted to delve into the whole thing could do so. Of course you could pick and choose which parts would apply to particular positions, but "on balance", I stand by my assertions.

For example, what does the average private computer science position pay versus the average government computer science position? Go ahead, look it up. (And don't forget those benefits and retirement.)

However, what compelled me to post the discussion about federal holidays is the backward nature of it.

My premise:

I believe in smaller government, not bigger government.

I believe the government serves the people, not the other way around.

If you, for example, want to take the "noble" path and "serve" your country, don't get greedy about it, so to speak.

Having said that, there's something backwards about those four "paid" government holidays, when ONLY government workers get those holidays, while for the rest of America, it's business as usual. So today, I am "serving" you, while in theory, you should be "serving" me. I don't like having to go to work while the people who "work for me" get a paid day off.

There ya' go. It's that simple.

by amcol

I too believe in smaller government.

I too believe the government serves the people.

I do not believe I took a "noble" path in choosing to leave a high paying private industry job and taking one in government. It was a personal choice based on how I wanted to live my life. No nobility involved.

I do not believe I am being greedy, nor are any of my Federal colleagues in any capacity being greedy, by getting better than average benefits. (Don't assume I'm conceding your point, BTW, I'm just trying to make one of my own). Any organization, government or private industry, should do whatever it can to attract and retain the best and brightest. If that can be accomplished by a somewhat sweetened benefits package, to me that's just good organizational management. Don't you want quality in the people working for your government?

I'm still mystified by your original posting, however. Every organization I've ever worked for, and every organization all my friends and colleagues have ever worked for, have the same set of holidays. Where did you get the idea that only Federal workers get the holidays you mention?

If that were true I'd agree with you, but since it isn't........

by maxwell edison

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Government employees are given ten paid holidays. The national average is eight. The national average for small firms is seven.

The average state and local government employee has 9.9 more paid vacation and holidays annually than the average private employee. This is nearly one extra paid day off for each two days of paid leave for private employees.

The average federal civilian employee has 13 more paid vacation and holidays annually than the average private employee. This is more than three extra paid days off for each five days of paid leave for private employees.

Over the course of a career, state and local government employees and federal civilian employees receive nearly 1.5 years more in paid vacation and holidays than the average private employee.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/apcxv.htm

by thechas

Max,

I agree with removing paid Federal Holiday status for Rev. King's day.

Presidents Day, and Columbus Day are part of the 5 banking holidays used to simplify financial calculations.

Of course, why anyone outside of a financial institution needs those days off is beyond me.

Also, with the advent of computers, the logic of having a 360 day fiscal year is a moot point. I have not checked, does any credit card company calculate your interest charge based on a 360 day year?

As to Veterans Day, I propose that the 11th of November should be an unpaid day when ALL businesses are closed. That way, people would not be distracted from honoring the Veterans that have sacrificed for our freedoms.

In all the years I have been employed, only 1 company had any of the 4 days you listed as company holidays.
I firm gave us Presidents Day off.

Chas

by tonythetiger

That simply will not work. Someone is going to run out of beer on that day and will have to run to the convenience store :^)

by garion11

I'd like to suggest April 15th to be a holiday so people can sit home and remind themselves of their Nov 2nd election choice and either be happy or ask why?

by cuteelf

I'm used to not having more than 2 paid holidays per year. Yep. Xmas and Thxgiving..not even NY or NYE.

So, to me, anything off or paid or shut down, is fine by me. It lightens the traffic patterns, its a day for shopping sales, day to have less people in the office bothering me..etc.

To me, I dont mind. Honestly.

by maxwell edison

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I'd further propose that we abolish payroll deduction of all taxes, and force people to "write the check" on April 15th. That way, they will know how much they're being soaked for, and will really have something to remember in November.

by montgomery gator

Have election day fall within a week of April 15, so people will have it fresh in their minds how much tax they are paying when they vote. That way, people will be more likely to vote for politicians that do not waste the taxpayers' money. With the shift in election day, inauguration day and the day the congressional session starts will be moved so they are the same amount of time afterwards as they are currently, like to sometime in June or July.

by thechas

Max,

While I understand your logic, all this would do would be to expand the indebted class.

Very few people would actually set aside the funds necessary to pay their taxes. Imagine the loan terms that people would be saddled with for their tax payment loans.

My wife worked for one of the tax prep firms for a number of years.
It is unbelievable the number of people who's only savings plan is their tax refund check.

Back when George H.W. Bush was President he pushed through a lowering of the payroll withholding amount. People were positively livid that their refund check was lower or that they had to pay a little that year.

When the refund anticipation loans started, the stories were just amazing.
People bought cars, wrote checks to pay bills, and other feats of spending BEFORE they had the check in their hands.

I still can't comprehend the lack of common sense of people who would rather get a $2,000 lump sum refund of their own money than pay $10 to cover the balance due. They just don't comprehend the concept of giving an interest free loan to the government.

Chas

by warnerit

Just curious because personally I think the reason that workers get so stressed and burned out in the USA is because they don't get enough holiday/vacation time.

by av .

Everyone should have that off to honor our Veterans, not just the government.

After looking at some of your posts, I think I should have pursued becoming a public servant. How many holidays they get is just the tip of the iceberg. They have lots of other benefits that I will never have as long as I work in the private sector.

And never a layoff either. What a deal and we're all paying for it.

by montgomery gator

You are beginning to sound like a conservative. I think Hades is freezing over again, with us agreeing on another issue. :-)

by montgomery gator

Unless New Jersey is a neighborhood in Hades, but I did not think it was that bad. Bruce Springsteen and John Bon Jovi seem to like Jersey. :-)

by av .

There are some neighborhoods that are like Hades, but I think that could probably exist anywhere.

NJ is a real melting pot. I've lived here all my life and have watched NJ grow to be very diverse. I think that because of that, people here are adaptable to change and accepting of differences. I'm not sure how people are where you live.

Its really expensive to live in NJ. If it wasn't, I would stay. My family is here and we all know what thats all about. The truth is, you can't afford to live here. Thats whats bad about New Jersey.

I love Bruce. At the Jersey Shore, you would see him sometimes. He was never unapproachable. I met him once and he was very nice about it.

In short, NJ is great if you can afford it.

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