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About my computer

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I notice there are many questions about computers in the miscellaneous category. I see there is also an item Technical Q & A, but I think my question is too simple to be posted there.

My computer which I bought second-hand is Pentium 166 with 32 megabytes of memory. It seems to do all the tasks I need, including the Internet. But some of my friends say it is out of date and I should buy a new one with Windows XP.

Also when I go into a computer store and I am approached by a salesman, I say I am just browsing. Usually the salesman asks for the details of my current computer, and then he (or she) tries very hard to sell me a new computer, again telling me mine is out of date.

As my computer seems fine to me, I thought I would ask for some advice from you professionals.

16 replies

by zlitocook

If your computer will do every thing you need. Then keep it. Some virus programs and other programs will not work with your computer but if you dont need them dont worry about it. Most people see an older computer and try to tell you to get bigger, better but your the one who uses it.

by oz_media

As far as computing goes, it is a fever or bug that people get that keeps them wanting the latest and greatest in a quest to be the ultimate techie.

Basically, if your system performs the tasks you use it for at a comfortable speed without errors and crashes, you're ok.

Windows XP although I still refuse to use it 'yet' has full development and support with Microsoft relesing patches and updates on a regular basis. Older operating systems eventually have support dropped and no new updates are available. Ususally by this time though, people have already worked out the kinks and can help you themselves so support isn't really a need anymore.

Newer hardware will enable more advanced mulitmedia, games and memory/processor intensive applications, but if your needs are simple, this is overkill.

Pretty much only problems you may have at this point would be hardware related as parts age or you may find your hard drive fills easier with today's programs being much larger than before.

I simply can't resist saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

OM

by thechas

If your computer does what you need to do, there is no reason to upgrade.

I support many older PCs that perform the tasks the user needs just fine.

Now, there are reasons other than improved performance to consider upgrading your PC.

I assume that you are running Windows 95. If you use this PC to go on-line, there are security holes in Windows 95 that are NOT being fixed.
You should do 2 things.
Install a software firewall.
Use a browser other than IE.
Either the older version of Netscape, or Mozilla.

At some point, you will need to replace some piece of hardware that will require a more powerful PC. Your printer is the most likely source of problems here, as very few new printers will run on older hardware.

When you do talk to computer salesmen, rather than opening yourself up by letting them know about your old hardware, tell them you don't presently have a PC.
Then, ONLY deal with a sales-person who takes the time to ask you what you want / need to use the computer for.

Bottom line, if it works for you, save your money until you need a more powerful PC.

Chas

by antipodes1

You have reassured me that my computer is fine if it meets my current needs, which it does.

You have also pointed out that I may have to do a re-think some time in the future, and given clear reasons why.

By the way, I forget to mention I am using Windows 98, so that the reference to possible problems with Windows 95 would not apply, I presume.

Once again, thanks. I think through this website I will gradually become more computer literate.

by thechas

Since you are using Windows 98, it might be worth the effort to increase your amount of RAM.

I recommend between 128 and 196 MB of RAM for W98 systems.

If your motherboard uses SIMM (EDO) RAM, it has become very cheap on the used parts market.

A pair of EDO SIMMs go for $20 (US) at www.compgeeks.com

If it uses DIMM (SDRAM) you need to be careful as many motherboards of this age have some very specific limits on what types of RAM will work in them.
If you can find PC-66 DIMMs of the proper size they should be the best option.

Even if you double your RAM to 64MB you will see a noticeable performance improvement.

Chas

by jardinier

Hi Chas. First yourself and several others advise "antipodes1" to stay with his/her current configuration "if it works for you." Now yourself and csmith are advocating mega-RAM.

While he/she politely thanks you for your suggestions, I fear that you may instead have left this novice confused.

So here are a few comments of my own experience with running Windows 98. I use it on my workhorse computer with Pentium 133 and 24 MB RAM. It works fine for me. With four 72 pin memory slots, the maximum RAM, if I could get it (unlikely) would be 4 X 32 = 128 MB.

So why don't I bother to upgrade? Because I have not become addicted to speed and am quite happy to let the computer trot along at a modest pace. Even with this relatively low amount of memory, the computer rarely crashes or produces a blue screen.

I made a computer for a friend with Pentium 133, and used up my limited supply of larger 72 pin RAM, to give him 96 MB. (2 x 32 + 2 x 16). The machine goes like a scared rabbit, and easily runs his scanner which specifies Pentium 166 as minimum CPU speed.

Well, them's some observations of mine. So it seems that you have become addicted to the speed of newer computers, which I consider totally unnecessary for average use. I actually own several faster computers, including AMD 550 MHz and Celeron 633. But still I stay whith my trusty old workhorse (which cost me virtually nothing to assemble, as I had all the relevant hardware taken from second-hand computers) because over a period of two years I have installed an incredibly diverse collection of programs that run directly off the HDD.

Apart from having all the facilities of the still supported MS Office 97 Professional edition; I have Star Office -- an excellent program; MS Works 4.5; MS Office 4.2; I can instantly access several Bible programs with search facilities (comes in very handy in some of the TR discussions); load two dictionaries; several specific dictionaries; thesaurus; encyclopedia; play numerous games; listen to background music; sing along with karaoke hymns; use the keyboard as a musical instrument; fly a plane; race a car; play golf and so on.

And all this on a total HDD capacity of 3.75 GB.

by csmith

The best value per Meg for EDO RAM is usually the 64 Meg SIMMs (If the motherboard will support them.)
When you are running with minimum RAM or thinking of upgrading, a program such as Cacheman (free download from www.cnet.com) (Cnet is the parent of TechRepublic) is helpful.
This utility program can monitor RAM, CPU, etc. usage so you can decide what, if anything, needs to be done. Although, right now, it sounds like you do not even need a memory upgrade.
A note here: Disk Cache should usually be twice the memory installed on the Hard Drive. In your case the "Cache RAM" on the drive is probably 1 Meg, so 2Meg Max, 512K Min. You can look this number up on the manufacturers' website. It is part of the hardware specifications of the drive.
Now, on RAM upgrades.
Most tests show that Win98, with a default setup, runs fastest with 192 Meg RAM. (The "sweet spot")
The number increases, when the load on the memory manager is decreased, by doing such things as engaging "conservative swap file usage", etc.
It never gets over 384 Meg RAM, even when every trick is used.
Win98 can not effectively address over 512 Meg RAM.
This is not really a consideration for you.
Most motherboards of this period only supported 256 Meg or 384 Meg RAM.
There is a chipset of this period, that only supports 128 Meg RAM (Intel FX).
Anyway, this is all knowledge for your future use, and is probably not immediately necessary.
Regards, Chris

by antipodes1

The postings by TheChas and cmith have greatly encouraged me to become more computer literate.

As you both say that Winows 98 runs much faster with more memory, I will look into this. I have a friend who knows quite a lot about computers and I will mention your recommendations to him.

I'm sure he knows how to purchase and install more memory.

You people are just SO helpful to a novice like myself, and I really appreciate this. I am enjoying the benefits of my techrepublic membership more and more every day.

by antipodes1

Thanks jul646 for considering my feelings but, as I said, this technical information stimulates me to rise to the challenge, and become more computer literate.

by maxwell edison

.
I used to have dozens of Pentium 166 computers in my office that were just fine for word processing, spread sheets, email, Internet browsing, and even the CAD software version of the day. I am constantly upgrading both hardware and software every couple of years, not because I want to, necessarily, but because I have to. The process for me, and it's usually driven by our CAD software, goes something like this. A client will upgrade his CAD software or the vendor "retires" the version we currently have, so we upgrade the software. However, the newer version of the software requires heftier hardware requirements, so we have to upgrade the hardware to accommodate. And so it goes....

If we didn't have a "need" to upgrade, we probably wouldn't. Just like and older car, if it still runs, if it's free of problems, if it looks good, if it still gets you where you want to go, and so on (and if you don't mind NOT having car payments), why buy a new one?

My suggestion would be to determine your need, and then fill it. If it's already filled, why bother? However, with a computer, just like a car, some people always want the newer model, but having the latest and greatest is an expensive proposition. It's a choice and/or balance between want and need.

And the next time a sales person asks you a leading question, don't answer it. When asked what you have, simply say everything I need, or it doesn't matter, or whatever. There's no rule that says you have to answer a question.

by antipodes1

for vindicating the earlier postings.

"My suggestion would be to determine your need, and then fill it. If it's already filled, why bother."

I will stick with what I have but, as I said, I will look into the possibilty of adding additional memory, and the postings referring to this have encouraged me to become more computer literate.

Once more I will expression my appreciation for all the advice given to me. You are all so polite and helpful.

by thechas

Julian,

In the original post, the only details of the system were that it was a P166.

When it was posted that the system had only 32MB of RAM, that altered my opinion of what to do.

Yes, he still does not need a new system.
However, there is room for a significant performance improvement for a relatively small investment.

My first Windows 95 system was a P133 and came with 64MB of RAM. Doubling the RAM to 128MB provided a much more significant performance improvement than stepping up to a 233MMX CPU.

With Windows 98, having more RAM should provide an even better increase in performance than it did for W95.

Chas

by jardinier

that's what I wanted hear:

"My first Windows 95 system was a P133 and came with 64MB of RAM. Doubling the RAM to 128MB provided a much more SIGNIFICANT PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT than stepping up to a 233MMX CPU."

I also have found that memory is a much more significant factor than CPU speed in providing faster performance.

by jardinier

For starters, I incorrectly gave the wrong specifications for my Win 98 computer. Where it says "24 MB RAM" this should be "48 MB RAM."

Without going to an open computer market or buying online, it is quite difficult to acquire high MB 72 pin RAM.

However yesterday I contacted a second-hand dealer whom I have known for several years. As he is closing down his computer business in order to concentrate fully on his primary business (manufacturing and distributing a range of salad dressings) he was able to supply me at a very modest price, 12 sticks of 16 MB 72 pin RAM, and 6 sticks of 32 MB SDRAM.

So I have upgraded my Win 98 computer from 48 to 64 MB RAM (there are only 4 memory slots) and there is quite a dramatic increase in speed. So I will be looking out for some 32 MB 72 pin RAM so that I can push it to its maximimum of 128 MB RAM.

Thanks for your comments as it most likely would not have occurred to me that this relatively small upgrade would make such a noticeable difference.

Henceforth I will keep my novice mouth shut, and follow the advice of a seasoned IT Pro.

by oz_media

Firstly, I would happily profess and speak for everyone here that not a single person here knows everything about computers, that is why we find each others specialized knowledge so invaluable.

Remeber the what makes you a geek thread? We ALL learn from each other and enjoy sharing knowledge we aquire, maybe that's a better definition of a true geek than any other. I am sure many of the people here would not stop and ask for directions no matter how lost in the city, yet in the PC world we realy on others knowledge and are never too embarrassed to ask for help, that's what makes us better.

you will notice one consistent thing by readnig Q&A posts though, first things first, what OS and HOW MUCH DAMN RAM YA GOT?!?!? RAM makes the world go around. I have an overkill of RAM in my W2K laptop, 640Megs. I have never used even half, I have run MAYA 3D modelling and design with live rendering and it still has RAM left.

BUT...RAM will never be an issue for me, so that's not even in the cards when i get problems.

(Yeah, and a 286 is more computing power than man will ever need)

Glad to hear your steaming along again, I will also keep an eye out for some 32's for you but usualy only see the smaller OEM sticks (8 or 16 MB).

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