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October 4, 2006 at 5:59 pm #2248332
Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
Lockedby danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217760,00.html
OK, I know that there are people here on Tech Republic of many beliefs and disbeliefs. But I do not think any of us would ever think of disturbing a community that has suffered such a loss.
We have discussed freedom of speech many times on Tech Republic and privacy rights. My question, where does freedom of speech and the rights of someone to say what they feel go to far? Yes, if you yell I have a bomb on an airplane. It’s considered too far. But, what about this and all the other vicious things that this church has done to dishonor people that have died?
We talk about the extremist mosoleums, well. I consider this church to be a prime example of the Christan extremists. My god, even if you do not believe in god. You must understand that the Amish are some of the most peaceful people in the United States. They have already forgiven the person that have taken their children from them and are going to visit his family to console the mother and children.
And these wackos have the gall to want to protest against these people.
OK, this was nothing but a rant of pure disgust and repulsion. And sadness. More sadness then anything else that someone that claims that are followers of Jesus Christ can have so much hate.
I’m done, I’ll shut up now
Dan
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October 4, 2006 at 6:09 pm #3281066
Now that is just
by tony hopkinson · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
f’ed up.
Burying your kid and some nutball with a placard turns up to use the occasion!Me I’d have dug 70 more holes and said come on down.
If you pass by their church go in ands sit with a sit with a silent h on one of the pews.
Place is already a cess pit.
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October 4, 2006 at 6:20 pm #3281061
The thing is Tony
by danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Now that is just
The Amish are people of peace. I’ve been reading articles about them sense this happened. They are hard working, and they stay to themselves.
They do not fight, they do not go to war, they do not disturb people of other faiths. They are strict about how they follow their faith. They walk a fine line between technology and their religion, and from everything that I have read. They have been able to adhere to their religion.
They are a god fearing people that follow their religion as strictly as they can. And people of a faith, supposedly of the same god. Attack them like this? I just have no understanding
You don’t want to know what I said to my friend when he showed me that article. And I won’t repeat it, it was to disgusting and hateful.
Dan
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October 5, 2006 at 8:38 am #3280457
Aye well the only way you can live in
by tony hopkinson · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to The thing is Tony
peace is by kicking the crap out of people who disturb it.
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October 4, 2006 at 7:09 pm #3281048
Modern day klan
by jdclyde · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
These people are the dregs of society and the worst America has to offer the world.
Wonder if the freedom guard will show up to stand between the family and the scum like they do at the military funerals?
Some people clearly are only alive because there is a law that keeps decent people from making the world a better place.
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October 4, 2006 at 9:55 pm #3280996
I’m not surprised
by ontheropes · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
That’s all I’m going to say.
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October 4, 2006 at 10:35 pm #3280993
Whatever, these people claim they are NOT Christians
by deadly ernest · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
There is NOT one statement in the Bible by Jesus that says you should hate anyone, or hate homosexuals. These people are clearly a case of gene pool contamination, and it needs a dose of chloride.
I hope the people who give their time on the media, preferences their time with a statement like “Please turn off your radio/TV for an hour as we are about to be hit with bullsheet, from posteriors.”
I’d let them send their protestors, declare the cemetary ‘Family and invited friends only’ and have lots of police on hand to arrest trespassers.
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October 5, 2006 at 6:36 am #3280884
Definitely radical
by nicknielsen · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Whatever, these people claim they are NOT Christians
Having a large religious curiosity, I browsed their site, and managed to do it without barfing, too! Almost all of the verses they use to justify their beliefs are taken from the Old Testament and the letters of Paul. Additionally, in true propogandistic form, almost all are taken out of context.
Their interpretation of the Golden Rule is that it only applies to the “true believers:” Love thy neighbor as thyself, but only if he believes the same as you.
The only difference I see between the “Reverend” Fred Phelps and Osama bin Laden is that Fred hasn’t yet told his followers to kill the infidels.
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October 5, 2006 at 7:41 am #3280483
I was thinking this a primary example of another Waco Texas
by danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Definitely radical
At least the type of cult/religion/? that would cause another Waco Texas type of stand off with the goverment.
Hell, I was also thinking when will they do as you said with reference to BinLadin. Start teaching… Kill the non believers.
Dan
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October 5, 2006 at 8:36 am #3280458
Obviously they never read the Bible itself
by deadly ernest · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Definitely radical
Jesus said that all that was before is over and completed. Thus the Old Testament has NO bearing on Christain beliefs, it is only historical, not doctrinal. Christ taught that each has a relationship with God and can speak direct.
Paul wrote a few letters to people in response to specific problems, in most cases we have the replies and not the questions. Nor did he have the right to espouse doctrinal aspects that differ to those stated by Jesus. Yet he taught that priests had more right to talk to God than anyone else, hmm. A bit of movement away there.
And what makes you think that Fred is NOT telling his people to kill non-believers when the tape recorders aren’t about? This is another Waco or Jamestown in the building.
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October 5, 2006 at 2:52 am #3280958
Fred Phelps needs a reality check
by jmgarvin · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
How can you f’up a simple concept like the Golden Rule? Phelps can!
“God Hates Fags” is the motto of his church and he seems to think that protesting at the funerals of service members that die in Iraq, he is proving a point.
The guy is slimy. He was recenly here in NM and we protesting a funeral of a service member that died in Iraq. He claimed that it was God’s will because we “support” homosexuality in the US.
Screw him. If he doesn’t like it, he needs to leave the greaving families out of it. God doesn’t want you to hurt the weak and downtroden.
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October 5, 2006 at 4:40 am #3280941
Early Morning News
by tig2 · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
The Amish community has asked the media and others to stay a respectful distance away today and tomorrow as the children are laid to rest. Their spokesman cited a desire to allow their community to grieve and support each other.
I am hoping this very simple wish is granted. It is terrible that they have to go through this. To have to tolerate a circus on top is reprehensible.
I hate that these fanatics do the horrible things they do in the theoretical “name of God”. I would be interested in knowing which deity they serve- it sure as heck isn’t the God I grew up with.
What makes it all so difficult is that anyone professing faith is suspect. The fanatics are the “picture” that many people have of Christians in general. That is pitiful.
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October 5, 2006 at 6:14 am #3280903
These wackos protest was not about the Amish
by danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Early Morning News
I ended up reading about 3 different articles on this. They were going to show up at the funeral to protest what the Governor of Pennsylvania had said about them. Now, don’t get me wrong. I worked for Ed Rendell and I didn’t like him. But to protest at someones funeral you have no issue with because of what someone else said? What was the song? You were born to be an A$$hole and you are one.
And the kicker is. They cancelled the protest because they were given 1 hour of free radio time to address their issues. The radio station manager if I remember right felt, anything to give the Amish a chance to grieve in peace.
The more I read, the more I’m disgusted. ya know, have you ever seen the Amish people? These are some big boys. Farm workers or labor craftsmen. They could put a whopping on these idiots without even thinking twice. But, when I look to their reaction to all this. Peaceful and reserved in their grief, gather to their loved ones, no publicity stunts or statements. It gives me faith.
Dan
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October 5, 2006 at 7:49 am #3280480
The Amish to make you stop and re-evaluate, don’t they?
by jdclyde · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to These wackos protest was not about the Amish
When your not living for “stuff”, you live for people.
Might be worth a trip to one of the many communities to learn more FROM them.
I have tried for the last few years to teach my boys not to let “stuff” be their end-all to existance. That is why when my house sells, I have told them I am looking for a SMALLER house, not a bigger house.
They have also seen a lot of my stuff is falling apart, while they have new stuff. I forget to get that new belt or shoes for myself because I see the boys need them.
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October 6, 2006 at 12:07 pm #3281962
Living amongst the Amish.
by deepsand · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to The Amish to make you stop and re-evaluate, don’t they?
There are several surviving sects of Anabaptists; most notable, Old Order Amish, New Order Amish, and Mennonites.
As a child, I grew up in an area with a large population of Old Order Amish, many of whom became close acquaintences of my family, although to the untrained eye such was not obvious, owing to the unpretentious nature of said peoples.
We provided them with various services, such as the use of our telephone when immediate contact with a distant colony was necessary, and transportation when urgent necessity precluded a slow trip by horse and buggy. For these services they paid immediately in cash, even though such required, for telephone calls, that operator assistance be used so as to get time-and-charges, resulting in a more costly call.
Additionally, my father and I culled the populations of ground hogs, whose burrow holes reek havoc with wagons, in their fields, as they do not possess guns. For these non-monitized services we were paid in goods, generally food items such as eggs and meats.
When one of my relatives dairy barn was completely destroyed by fire, the entire Amish community showed up for a barn raising, which was completed in less than 2 full days, bringing with them their own lumber, nails and hand tools (power tools were supplied by us), accepting only a noon meal (known as dinner in the country, where the evening meal is supper) as payment.
When my father died, the town was lined for blocks with Amish quietly and somberly waiting their turn to pass by my father at an open casket viewing. It still makes me cry (as is now happening) to remember the sight, to know that they cared so much for this one man.
Contrary to what many believe, Amish children are not “raised in the Church.” The Amish understand that a child cannot make an informed choice in these matters, and therefore do not admit them as members of their churches. It is only when an Amish child reaches the age of majority that they themselves, of their own free will, make a decision as to whether or not become part of the Amish community.
Yes, we all would be wise to learn from the Amish, as they have much to teach us about what is and is not of import in our lives, much that our forefathers knew but which is now forgotten.
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October 5, 2006 at 5:54 am #3280920
these folks
by jck · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
are occassional guests on Howard Stern. He calls them the “God hates fags people” because they originally came on his show telling how God hates gay people.
BTW…even Stern thinks they are crazy idiots…
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October 5, 2006 at 7:16 am #3280860
Idiots
by jellimonsta · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
I do not think of these guy’s as Christian, but rather a ‘religious cult’. I do not see them emulating the heart of Christ in any of their actions.
I did not read anywhere that Christ treated anyone with the contempt that these morons do, and the only time he expressed disgust and anger was towards religious zealots. IMHO.-
October 5, 2006 at 7:43 am #3280481
A few hundred years ago
by jdclyde · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Idiots
and the image of an angry god was more popular than that of a god as a loving father.
How any Christian could say God hates
is beyond me. How could a father hate even their worst behaved child? There is no room for hate in religion.
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October 5, 2006 at 8:25 am #3280462
An interesting survey
by onbliss · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to A few hundred years ago
Results:
31.4% believe in Authoritarian God
24% believe God is distant
23% believe in Benevolent God
16% believe in Critical God[b]Authoritarian God:[/b] who is angry at humanity’s sins and engaged in everyone’s life and worldly affairs.
[b]Critical God:[/b] who keeps a judgmental eye on humanity, but does not intervene in events.
[b]Benevolent God:[/b]which sets absolute standards for mankind but is seen as primarily a loving, forgiving Creator.
[b]Distant God:[/b] a cosmic force that launched the universe and then left it on its own.
You can read some about the survey and other stats at: http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=71131
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October 5, 2006 at 9:42 am #3280423
Surveyed
by jellimonsta · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to An interesting survey
It is all relative to who was surveyed. I can tell you, if they survey 2000 people in my Church, not even one of those ‘labels’ of God would have a percentage.
None of them are correct. IMHO. -
October 5, 2006 at 9:56 am #3280417
I heard
by onbliss · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Surveyed
…about this poll in the radio sometime back, and thought it was relevant here.
I am no expert on Polls, but I think the Pollsters would have taken sampling and other factors into considerations. Am I wrong in having such a assumption?
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October 5, 2006 at 10:45 am #3280405
Correct
by jdclyde · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I heard
you are wrong.
There are so many things wrong with the majority of the polls taken.
How was the sample determined? did they go into X number of churches and talk to just religious people? did they randomly call people out of the phone book? did they concentrate on poor areas? Rich areas? How diverse is the area they called?
How many people did they talk to?The other side is the way the questions are asked makes a big difference. If it is a phone survey, the surveyers vocal tones can even bias the results.
And then there are the polls where they really do make up some or all of the responses.
Who paid for the poll to get done? did they get the answers that they WANTED?
Polls are for the weak minded, IMHO, and are to be scorned.
Politicians should never be allowed to SEE a poll, nor take one themselves. Policy should be about right and wrong, not left and right, nor about what is popular at the time.
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October 5, 2006 at 11:19 am #3280390
Bingo!
by jellimonsta · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Correct
I agree JD. Poll’s are not worth the biased energy that is spent on them! :p
Most of the time people believe or choose not to believe a poll, due to the fact that the results/ indications align with their beliefs/ ideals. IMHO.
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October 5, 2006 at 11:51 am #3280383
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October 5, 2006 at 7:57 am #3280476
OKAYYYYY….
by vanessaj · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
I’ll chime in…
First, after a life-time of study and research of the Bible, theology and seminary instruction, and being convinced, after all of it, that it really is the inspired word of God for us – even today, and as a person who has made learning about and loving God the first priority of her life, now and always, to know the One who made us and gave His life for us…I have to say, “These people just suck”!
I don’t know how I can put it into words…How can anyone read the Bible (and the Old Testament, or “Old Covenant” by the way is some of my favorite texts) and not see that God is close to the hurting and lonely, that He is the champion of anyone who is humble and lost and defends the poor and needy…or that He has, for thousands of years acted AGAINST those who have been hard-hearted, arrogant and selfish enough to use those who are suffering around them for their own gain – even in (or should I say ESPECIALLY in) His name! Insane is just the word, I believe. These people are in danger of much more than bad press and will answer to a loving God for every word and action. I pity them above all.
Second, these Amish people are being just like Jesus when they did this beautiful, unbelievable, selfless, loving, caring thing that does not in any way reflect our human make-up: FORGIVE. Wow. I don’t know about you, but it brings tears to my eyes. I have walked with God for more than 30 years (yeah, I’m old 😉 )and am still finding how much His heart hurts and longs for us to be loving, forgiving and compassionate to each other, even those who do not deserve it (we are all just different levels of undeserving, aren’t we?) and to seek peace and forgiveness … I can see that these Amish people, who do not call themselves by the name of Jesus Christ (Christians) to the world, look a lot like Jesus, while those who do use that name, in this particular “church”, and I use the term very loosely here, look a lot like evil. Anyone can see that, except them, of course.
These types of people come and go throughout history and it looks like they will until the end. My question is, out of all the churches full of people who are full of God’s grace and love, who feed and clothe the poor and visit the sick and elderly and dedicate themselves to the principles of love and compassion that Jesus taught, who pray and fast and see God answer their prayers and rightly call themselves by the name Christian…where is Fox News when all of that is going on? We are talking about a few crazies here – apparently NOT followers of Jesus or his teachings, but that’s all you’re gonna hear about from the press and all of the media. But before I get started again…
Edited to add: and JD, you never cease to impress me. Really, you SO get it! You have a such a heart!
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October 5, 2006 at 8:57 am #3280448
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October 5, 2006 at 8:30 am #3280459
Hey, blackmail works!!!
by dmambo · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
They agreed to cancel their protest in exchange for radio air time???
I’m glad that the families of the murdered little girls will not be listening to that.
Whack jobs! I hope the Amish can forgive them, as well. That would take a real Christian attitude.
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October 5, 2006 at 2:32 pm #3280308
So if they got their promise for the airtime…
by vanessaj · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Hey, blackmail works!!!
Can’t everyone just boycott that particular hour of radio and not listen at all? That would be great! I mean, they should not boycott the sponsors – no reason to hurt the radio station or it’s sponsors…I mean, in this case, giving them the promise of an hour got them out of everyone’s hairs, and that’s a good thing. Maybe the town can go shop at the sponsor’s businesses for that hour, instead. It may be a sacrifice to exchange and hour of radio for an hour of muzak, but WTHeck, it’s for a cause, right? 😉 (where’s an emoticon with a halo…the devil one doesn’t always apply…)
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October 5, 2006 at 2:50 pm #3280301
There isn’t one
by nicknielsen · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to So if they got their promise for the airtime…
will have to suffice. We also need a
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October 6, 2006 at 6:30 am #3282148
both of which would apply in this case, wouldn’t they?
by vanessaj · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to There isn’t one
X-( will have to do.
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October 5, 2006 at 11:54 am #3280382
I can’t add much to what already has been said –
by mickster269 · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
But my respect for the Amish grew by leaps and bounds this past week. (Ok, I already respected them, but now…!)
How a father can stand there, knowing his daughter has just been killed, and tell everyone to be concerned about the family of the killer- wow.
There wasn’t a call for crackdowns in gun control, threats to sue anyone, demands for “blue ribbon panels” … nothing.
“Just let us grieve, and grieve for everyone that has been touched by this tragedy.” The widow of the killer even had people from the community visiting her, bring food and comfort.
Talk about people who epitomize Christianity.
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On the polar opposite of the spectrum is the Westboro Baptist Church – who really doesn’t seem to get any of the teachings of the Old or New Testament.
Thier “Pastor” claimed the girls were shot becuase God was mad that the Governor of the the State of Pennsylvania had spoken ill of the Westboro Baptist Church .
Huh?
Don’t need to add much there.
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Don’t worry, though. We non-Christians view Christianty more towards the Amish side of the house, than the Westboro Baptist Church side.
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October 5, 2006 at 12:15 pm #3280374
Good to know
by tig2 · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I can’t add much to what already has been said –
Most of us Christian types view Christianity more towards the “Amish side” too. Most of us deplore the Westboro Baptist types.
To me, the Amish community gave me a picture of Christian charity that I will strive to emulate.
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October 5, 2006 at 1:52 pm #3280321
The Amish
by nicknielsen · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Good to know
are definitely a good example. If more self-proclaimed “saved” Christians were like that, I wouldn’t be as cynical about organized religion as I am.
On the other hand, I think the Westboro Baptist Church qualifies as a good bad example.
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October 6, 2006 at 6:49 am #3282137
They are.
by vanessaj · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to The Amish
But you’ll never see them in the media anywhere. Come visit me for a week and hang with my friends – it’s amazing what a few genuine people can do with hearts and minds given to a loving, caring God. Love, compassion, grace, kindness, forgiveness, understanding, peace-loving, giving… it is good. Really good. Hard sometimes, we are just people, after all, but always really good.
That’s one of the reasons that I so love reading about TiggerTwo’s efforts with BC awareness…I feel like I understand her when I read them…how you just want to give yourself to something and to others in such a way. Worth every minute. that’s the way I find God to be.
Just my experience, FWIW. 😀
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October 6, 2006 at 6:35 am #3282144
Sounds to me like you know
by vanessaj · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to I can’t add much to what already has been said –
more about Jesus than that “church” does…more intelligence and more heart…gotta love that. Cool! 😉
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October 6, 2006 at 11:32 am #3281980
Having grown up along side the Amish, I can with certainty say …
by deepsand · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
that said Kansas church is wholly undeserving of being called either a church or Christian.
Their ignorance of the Amish is of such enormity that it must be said that they know nothing.
Attend an Amish funeral? Do they not know that such are [i]private[/i], held in members homes? Do they not know that it is a very rare occasion when an “English” is [i]invited[/i] to an Amish funeral, let alone allowed to attend un-invited?
The irony is that the Amish will forgive these idiots for their transgressions, intended or realized.
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October 7, 2006 at 8:02 pm #3281673
Amish mourn gunman who killed 5 girls
by danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/07/amish.mourners.ap/index.html
I think that says it all.
Thanks deepsand by the way, I never have had the chance to talk to anyone that was raised around the Amish. I’ve lived, and still do actually near where they are located. But never have had the privilege of meeting them or learning of their faith first hand.
Dan
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October 9, 2006 at 10:31 am #3280675
Disgusted Both ways
by protiusx · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls
Firstly, I was confused about the “anti-gay” label and I was trying to put together how this got to be a “gay” issue in the first place. I read the brief article and what it looks like is that this “church” thrives on being controversial but they are going way overboard by protesting or demonstrating at a funeral for children. That is way over the top and they should be ashamed of themselves.
From a Christian perspective the bible says we are not to judge others unless we are judged in the same light ourselves. This scripture applies to non-Christians as our Christian rules do not apply to them. We are called to judge our own though and to condemn sin within the body of Christ when we see it. There is a lot of sin here and the leadership of this church should be ashamed and embarrassed. The Amish are right on with their fundamentalist Christian belief and I wish their example might be more widely displayed by my Christian brethren.-
October 9, 2006 at 11:31 am #3280653
The anti gay topic is their banner I guess ProtiusX
by danlm · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Disgusted Both ways
That church started out picketing the burials of people that died with Aids. Then they started picketing soldiers deaths, saying it was because the country supported gays and that is why the soldier died.
I guess the news item was labeled that because that is everyone recognizes that church.
I was just disgusted when I first read about what they were going to do, and that’s why I posted it.
Dan
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October 9, 2006 at 1:58 pm #3280613
Amish position on crime & punishment is quite logical.
by deepsand · about 17 years, 5 months ago
In reply to Disgusted Both ways
1) They, like the American Indians (judge not until until you have walked in the moccasins of the other), recognize that each has his own person experiences, which cannot be fully known and/or comprehended by another.
2) They recognize that, without the ability to control another, judgement is fruitless with respect to changing the behavior of another.
3) They understand, therefore, that the only rational course is to judge sparingly, and to seek only remedies that are within their own control.
In general, their response to being wronged is to forgive their transgressor, offer counseling where possible, and avoid contact with the transgressor when necessary. Within their own community, the most severe “punishment” is shunning, which is not intended to change the behavior of the one being “punished,” but to limit the opportunity for such person to have a future unwanted influence on the lives of their own.
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