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Are you ready to die?

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No, this is not an off-topic discussion, but a figment of your imagination as are, in my opinion, convictions on the afterlife which are based on religious beliefs. It is a subject which I have wanted to open to a diverse audience for some time.

Summarising briefly:

I am not sure what Judaism teaches, but I do not know of any reference to an afterlife in the Old Testament.

If you are a committed Christian, you may look forward to spending all eternity with your Saviour, Jesus Christ. I have in fact encountered many Christians who, while in no hurry to die, because they believe they are ?saved,? actually look forward to death for this reason. If you fail to pass the test however, you will spend eternity in torment in hellfire.

From my very superficial understanding of Islam, I think the belief may be similar to the Christian belief.

If you are a Hindu, Buddhist, Theosophist or New Ager, you will expect to be reincarnated in a body and circumstances determined by positive or negative karma produced in this life. I am actually amazed to learn that many of the Buddhists and Hindus whom I know are quite convinced that they may be reborn as an animal if their karma so dictates.

An agnostic would not, I guess, have the slightest interest in what, if anything will occur after physical death.

An atheist would no doubt assert that upon corporeal death, there is total annihilation of individual consciousness.

As for myself, I maintain an open mind. As I have never met anyone who has returned from the dead, this possibility remains purely hypothetical. As for reincarnation, I have no recollection of past lives, so that this theory also comes from third parties. I understand that past lives may be recalled under hypnosis or Scientology auditing. But can the subject know that these recollections are genuine?

While I am not in any hurry to find out for myself, the prospect of death does not hold any fear for me. A Professor Emeritus of Biology, who was also a Christian, once made the statement: ?Life after birth is more important than life after death.?

This, I consider, is a very sensible attitude because, whatever you believe about a possible afterlife, the only way to prepare for it is to do the best of which you are capable in this life.

18 replies

by aquaris

I am One of them

who have returned from death so to speak..

I was critically injured in a Bomb blast...

in my country while I was on vacations.( 13 August 2001 in a remote area called Kalam in my country Pakistan....Its in the Northern Part of my country and is as beautiful and scenic as switzerland )

the bomb was placed under a stall.( 14 Aug being independence day of Pakistan so there were celebrations all around)

and it hit full impact on my right side..

i was thrown away about 10-12 Feets.

It was just like one being suddenly hit by a very high voltage...

I laid there , don't know how long. But I was fully aware , yet my body had gone Numb and even that blood was flowing from my body..I felt nothing no sense no feeling.

then they took me to a local dispensary..
where they stitched some of my wounds and then took me the nearest Hospital ( Saidu Sharif) which was about 30-40 Miles away...and took about 6-8 hrs as the road were curvey..it was raining very heavily.
..Its there while Being operated I think I died.
I was rushed into the operation theatre. then they gave me anesthesia...and minutes after
I found myself floating above my body.

I could clearly see my self being operated.
My right side was completely damaged...and it had a large gapping hole in my back...about
16-18 inch by 8-10 inch in length..

...yet the strangest thing was I saw my lips moving though I could not hear anything..
But the surprised look on the surgeon face...convinced me that I was telling them where to look for splinters in my body..
which .

....Before I saw my body floating above ....
I had a sudden rushing movement...every thing swirrled....and every thing became first a cube then a dot...and then very fast moving light beems....all similiar but different ...I cannot explain the difference but each beem was different..

then it was all black ......the amazing thing is I was also watching myself being operated at the same time.

there was nothing but pitch blackness...and I heard some one behind my back...I could not turn back and I did not wanted to turn back..

...that some one was talking in some very strange language....' Hebrew, Arabic, ...don't know which' But I could understand what was being said....I cannot now recall it...the memories have dimmed....But I knew I could understand it..
then I saw four white spots...and was told its my wife and my three kids...
then again...it was pitch black...

....and then when I woke again...I was travelling again in the Ambulance to be taken to the Nearest City (Peshawar....and then to Lahore my city of Residence then ...Now I have moved back to my Father in Karachi...)

I was admitted in my City's Hospital and stayed for about three month there....(Lahore's Hospital... as they Told me I was in no condition to travel...and for three month contanly visiting the operation theatre...)

Its been Nearly 2 3/4 years since I had my accident...But still some time I wake up during the Night and the whole Incident repeats itself..

and in the morning I have a sudden yearning to Die ..

Well thats My story if any one can comment on it.

I have Lost an eye...My Right...and my right side though covered up...still troubles me..

I have tried to be Brief...as its painful to recall it..

by jardinier

for your detailed account of your near-death experience. As you will no doubt know, countless thousands of people have this type of experience during surgery, which of course does sugggest an afterlife.

by jardinier

Dear aquaris. From time to time I ask permission of TR members to republish their postings on one or other of my websites.

Your story would be very apppropriate for the website www.thinking-seriously.com

If you are agreeable, would you please email me and include your full name, and the town or city in Pakistan where you live.

Thank you, Julian

by hal 9000

But as a firm believer in Science I do understand that no energy can be destroyed only transmuted into different forms of energy. Now weather that means Heaven/Hell, reincarnation or whatever I'm not sure but as I have meet the Dali Lama on numerous occasions I do know for certain that he is a firm believer in reincarnation and firmly believes that he can remember some of his previous lives.

Now some may like to call this wishful thinking but unless they have meet the man and have at the very least a working knowledge of him they are unable to offer any opinions and those that do know him will say he is sincere in what he believes to the point of being believable when asked things about which he should know nothing.

Now I would like to think about the Christian beliefs in Heaven and Hell that I was taught when younger and in all honestly the idea of sitting around in Heaven playing harps certainly is not my idea of something that I would be the slightest bit interested in in any after life. Maybe if Heaven was a different thing for different people it might prove a more palatable belief to me at least you know a place where Windows actually works the way it was supposed to and you don't need to upgrade hardware and software constantly. And Hell could be where we are now with the same technology but missing the Control, ALT and Delete keys off the keyboards of the computers that we are forced to attempt to keep running.

Whoops it seems like I'm describing Hell where we are now as everything in computers is constantly changing and the only certainty is that whatever version of Windows we are going to run will need constant patching and testing of those patches before we apply them network wide.

Col

by jardinier

"Now I would like to think about the Christian beliefs in Heaven and Hell that I was taught when younger and in all honestly the idea of sitting around in Heaven playing harps certainly is not my idea of something that I would be the slightest bit interested in in any after life."

Without in any way intending to criticise the Christian faith or individual Christians, I have NEVER met a Christian who actually looked at the implication of eternal life with Christ.

As I like to say, eternity is a very long time, and afer a few trillion years living in a place where there is no sin or temptation, one could be excused for getting bored.

However if computers are permitted in Heaven, then you could take your own living hell (compliments of Microsoft) with you.

Or you might like (after a few trillion years) to approach St Peter and tell him you are getting bored, and ask could you please take a vacation in hell where there is a bit of action?

Additionally from a logical and scientific point of view, the only thing that is ever-present in the universe is "change." Thus anything that is eternally the same would be inconsistent with the natural law.

by hal 9000

At least in a "Technical Sense" as I'm currently installing SP2 the pre-release version on this unit. After a through test on a similar unit I thought I'd take the plunge and see what damage I can do.

Well another complete reload from scratch will be nothing new on this computer after all I had to get new activation keys for all 18 Microsoft products twice in two days so now it has been nearly 1 month I might as well try again to mess up Windows.

But this time I accept the fact that I'm effectively being a "Beta" tester as now I consider all the current Microsoft product Beta versions so I might as well get with the action and try to really muck up Windows.

After all it just might work.

Col

by saxyangels

The belife in reincarnation is similar to the belife in a life after death. It is the strong will of there being something more to us then just living and dying. Why else do we procreate except to keep ourselves alive in the children we have. There is some truth to the idea of reicarnation, but maybe not as we think we understand it. Life after death is a sort of reincarnation, if you think about it, since we are continuing on in spirit if not in body.

With people who can "hear" the dead speak, we can only surmise that there is a life after death, so why not the possiblity that some people are reincarnated, if not as people, but as a pet come to keep us company.

Just my own thoughts on the matter. Not intending to say that this is the only way to belive. Why do so many cultures belive in the here-after/reincarnation?

Think about it....what does the belife in either or both do for us, except to help us try and cope with our own mortality.

by deadly ernest

First - Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlastin contemplation." A clear Old Testemant reference to life after death, need to reread the whole book again to be sure about any others.

There have been many reported cases of 'near death' experiences, some good some bad. Some doctors say that these are just halucinations due to unusually brain activity. Yet the really good documented case speak of the 'near death' experience happening AFTER there brain activity had stopped (EEG recordings to support this), which makes you wonder how you have unusual brain activity if none is happening.

There are plenty of reported and documented cases of ghosts, both good and bad, which indiate that something of people can exist after the physical body has gone. Also there are plenty of documented cases of people like the guy in 'Crossing Over' if he, and other psychics, are NOT getting info from dead people watching what is happening, where are they getting the info about current and past events?

For many years I had a problem with these and other issues of faith and religion (not the two seperate items) and came to an understanding that our souls are an energy form of some sort and that the souls of the dead are existing somewhere. Some of them, if not all, continue to habitate this planet but the ability to see or hear them is not common, on some people can or they can do so in some places. Beyond this area of proven knowledge is belief/faith as to what the rest is.

I personally believe in God and that everyone has an opportunity to join him after death and that is through the redemption of our saviour Jesus, the Christ, those who do not have the opportunity to accept His sacrific in this world will be given an opportunity to do so in the next.

by jardinier

I don't remember where I read the following, as it was a long time ago.

But in controlled conditions a dying person's body was weighed before death qnd immediately after death. There was a measurable loss of weight after the soul left the body, suggesting that the soul actually has physical mass.

by thechas

While I am a Christian and believe that there is an immortal soul, I question the theory of mass for the soul.

A more "scientifically" plausible cause of the lose of 21 grams of mass when a body dies would be that the muscles no longer hold a quantity of pressurized air in the lungs.

Chas

by tomsal

I heard this bit about the body weighing slightly less right after someone dies. I'm a curious sort and I like learning..so being my normal self (I've always been that way) I asked my sister's friend's husband - who is a University Science Professor.

First one should note he doesn't believe in religion at all, he's a complete agnostic.

He says that it is true that the body weighs less after death. However the real reason isn't due to a soul leaving the body, but the expulsion of gas from the body. After the human body dies gases are released, also liquids evaporate. 21 grams is not much weigh, and could easily be explained by passing the gas and evaporation.

Me. I believe. I'm a Christian, I believe in a soul, heaven, etc.

BUT I'm open-minded and find science fascinating...

just food for thought.

by oz_media

I don't have time to respond right now but just want to mark the discussion for later response.

seeing as My Discussions doesn't work and subscribing doesn't work, it's easiest to just post and then search for your discussions.

by jardinier

When the physical body dies, the departure of energy causes the body to be less affected by gravity.

Or yet again: Philosophic Idealism. This postulates that the soul or spirit has no mass and occupies no space, but can nonetheless influence the mind (or brain).

by oz_media

Well, as expected I'm sure, I haev a rather odd and mixed bunch of feeling as to what happens after 'all this'.

Having been in a couple of near death incidents I wil just reiterate breifly.

While driving to a campsire with a friend in '87 we drove off the edge of the mountain road (just like the movies) in the Bronco. We free-fell for 125 feet before hitting nose on, flipping twice, spinning sideways and flipping backwards onto the roof, after a VERY slow rock, we were on all four wheels again. The Canadian army guys were practicing maneuvers in the same area and saw us drive off the edge, they rapelled down the cliff and we were both OK. My friend had a briken wrist and the arny boys took him to the local hospital, I just shrugged it off and hiked the 4KM's back to the campsite (where other friends were waiting for us). The wierd part was seeing the truck from the outside as if in a movie while well wer falling. I could picture it just exploding on impact, like a movie but it didn't.

Here's the kicker, I had a 10 gallon can of gas between my knees and a spare battery was loose in the back. WEhen we hit nose on, the battery flew forward with such force it broke the door pillar right behind my head, if I wasn't thrust forward by the impact, I would have been killed by the battery.

In '88 I was driving a BRAND new demo car back to the dealer to sign the paperwork, I was broadsided by an 18-wheeler who's driver had been drinking and fell asleep at the wheel before driving through a red light and hitting me on the drivers door. The left side of the car was gone completely, they removed me from the passneger seat, while wearing the drivers side seatbelt still. At first they figuerd the driver was dead and buried in the wreckage but I came to long enough to explain I WAS in the drivers seat.

Luckily enough, I had the dealers plates on so it was an easy replacement without my involvement with the insurance agency. 8-Days later, I returned to work a few facial stiches and a neckbrace on but still alive. I went and picked up my replacement car, brand spanking new and drove to North Vancouver with a friend to see one of the Bill and Ted movies. After the movie, apparently, I drove him home and was on my way home myself, when I blacked out (said to be brought on by the first accident causing a severe concussion)and ran through a red light. I was hit broadside again by a firetruck.

This left me in a coma for a LONG time,my family wasn't sure if I'd ever come out of it and I was 100% 'out for a walk in the park'.

When I came around several months later I noticed that the trees outside my window seemed to be shining, almost superimposed, which can be attributed to my brain receiving the light and vision once again from my wide open eyes.
Things did seem very different though and I felt very different. I no longer wanted to rule the world, I no longer wanted to be the corporate junkie i had become and felt EXTREMELY peaceful.

Now granted at that point, I thought my brother was santa, my friend had died when I drove off a bridge and many other things I must have conjured up while having my extended naptime.

I never left my body, i never saw a tunnel or met my relatives (not that I remember anyway)but I had an unbelievable awareness of the world and nature around me. I could not believe how fresh and colorful it all seemed and how peaceful I felt.

I had grown up as a high strung overactive person who was a serious mover and shaker, money was my ONLY focus and success was right in front of my eyes. I wanted NONE of it anymore. I found myself during this time I think, perhaps saw many things I couldn't conciously remember and had a bit of an awareness lesson.

After several years of rehab, learning to walk and write again etc. I still had no interest in the big business role anymore that I once sought with a vengeance. I wanted freedom and life instead.

Some funny parts I have forgotten to mention:
My car was hit by a firetruck full of trained paramedics, across the street from Richmond General Hospital (they literally wheeled me across the intersection to energency), yet ICBC (our provincial insurance agent) had a psychiatrist examine me and see if I was trying to commit suicide. I laughed becaus my life was so successful I had NO reason to end it, also, why would I drive infront of paramedics outside a hospital if I wanted to die? To this he raised his brow and said, what WOULD you do then? Ca you believe guys like this get paid from MY insurance dollars?

Not only that, but the firetruck had pushed me over the opposite sidewalk and into a parking lot, my brother's law firm's parking lot, the irony!

So although I don't believe in 'A' god, or even the afterlife (no tunnel, no relatives), I do believe in making the most out of every waking minute of my life. It is a proven fact that my inner energy will not leave Earth when I die, it is scientifically impossible to destroy energy.

My energy MAY become the life force of another being, whether human or animal or even a tree or plant, perhaps I will be heat for someone cold but my energy will always remain on Earth. The shell that I dragged around for the last 35 years may either be planted or smoked, I don't care, my body isn't my life force. When my body failed, my life force or energy still existed, this is exactly why we have experiences while unconcious, our electrical energy remains.

Anyhow, soory for being so long winded, I apologize to anyone who made it this far as there isn't a punchline, it's just over now.

OM

by aquaris

yes these Near Death experiences do change One prespective On the whole concept of Life and Death...

and sometimes .....RADICALLY....

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