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Certs are needed for some

By sremiger ·
I think Certs are a good in the sense that they provide a goal for learning. In fact when I shifted to Project Manager I made it clear to my developers that any materials needed for learning to develop software on the dot net platform would be paid for by the company. 0 takers, In fact I have fired 2 senior developers because they chose not to use coding standards and best practices in developing the software. So as of 9/1 of this year I told every developer that they need to get the MCSD by 8/31/2007. The company has stated many times that they will pay for training, books practice test and cert test regardless of pass or fail. Of the 5 developers still remaining 0 books have been ordered 0 practice test and 0 classes have been registered.

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Its not the certs.....

by JamesRL In reply to Certs are needed for some

While ther certs may help your team have a common baseline of understanding, which is a good thing, it won't teach them the discipline you seek.

What you seem to be looking for is a standardized approach in what is pretty much a wide open field. I do understand the rationale - my first job in IT twenty years ago was with a company who tried to create a standardized method of coding.

What it will take a is a consistent framework, discipline and teamwork. This depends more I think on the type of people on your team as any other factor. I know a lot of great programmers who are cowboys - they do it their own way.

As for your goals for you programmers - you need to set not just the end goal but some intermediate goals as well.


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Developers love coding standards.

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to Certs are needed for some

What they hate is the imposition of standards that won't work.

What they hate is stupid standards like you will indent by two spaces, you will use hungarian notation...

What they hate is being told to standardise their work, but not being resourced to do it.

MCSD will teach them nothing useful about the standards that they should use, nothing about how to move towards standardisation.

To get this off and running you need buy in, to get that, there needs to be an immediate reward for doing the work.

If the standard doesn't make the developer's job easier, throw it in the bin

That said I would have took up your offer, never refuse free training, even if it's about as useful as advanced flower arranging to the job.

Have you considered asking them why, obviously the threat of the sack hasn't made them pay attention, if I was you that would worry me.

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Free Training & Free Certs?!? WOW!!

by Spinner of Websites In reply to Developers love coding st ...

If I worked for a company that paid for any type of training, much less certs, I'd be making sure I hit the books and passed the certs! This would be gravy for me! I've always had corps that expected me to be on the bleeding cutting edge of tech and for me to do it on my own, paying out of my own pocketbook, besides my regular duties on the job! Yes, I'd buy it and if the manager said let's do hungarian notation and "X" number of spaces for indentation, would be just fine with me, as this is how I was trained in programming in the 80's for COBOL & JCL. Too bad this guy is in the Midwest! I'd love to talk to him about a possible job! WOW free, really?

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Indeed even advanced flower arranging

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to Free Training & Free Cert ...

requires , an appreciation of form and colour, must be useful for UI design, and you can make you desk appealing to female colleagues who may pass by

I worked at one place who refused to pay for certs because they figured people would get them and then leave for a better job. They were right about that.

On the standards front, the guy needs help and given what he's posted on his management style, you might want to have your sense of smell disabled to stand being successful there.

Hungarian notation has very little value in .NET

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The company I work for

by uberg33k50 In reply to Free Training & Free Cert ...

not only will pay for tuition but if the course is even remotely job related they will pay us bonuses for good grades. They have had this policy for years and so far I am the only one to take advantage of it. I am very fortunate.

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nice idea, but your magic beans (certs) really won't help you get the cow

by martin.duffy In reply to Certs are needed for some

I am sorry for what may appear to be a rant, from reading your post you sound like your straight out of a dilbert cartoon. The arrogance in your post is unbelievable and would lead me to doubt your story ?In fact when I shifted to Project Manager I made it clear to my developers? The developers are a resource and more than likely not a dedicated resource if your project managing it otherwise you?re a teamleader if they are a dedicated resource.

You seem to be going down the totalitarian method of management which in low-end unskilled work generally works. However in a field where ingenuity and ability are required that style won?t work hence why you probably had two developers quit and more than likely ones you didn?t need to quit. Your dealing with TALENT and any good manager will tell you the manager adapts to the environment as much as the environment adapting to them.

As far as certs go, there only useful if the company requires partner status from Microsoft or some other partner if that?s the case explain it and make it clear that bonus will reflect on anyone who helps the company achieve there goal. Remember knowledge does not imply wisdom.

On the coding standards your trying to bring in a metric generally, it?s a nice concept that you can have coding standards but because ability is the factor here you can?t standardize because not everyone has the same levels of ability. Also on the best practices point of view how have tried to get buy in doesn?t sound like you have, I agree in cohesion within a team and usually in a development environment the best programmer will set the standard of coding.

To be honest If I had any advice it would be for:

A. quit your not suited to project managing if that?s what your doing, or if it?s team leading same thing go get a job in a fast food joint or a call center where that style of management is suited.
B. Sack all your developers and get in less skilled people who will take your management style.

Because currently your only going to hurt your project

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by Tony Hopkinson In reply to nice idea, but your magic ...

Mind you if I was working for said person, I would have told them where they were going wrong.

Doesn't always go down well when I do that, but sometimes I get listened to.

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Couldn't have put it better myself.

by lastchip In reply to nice idea, but your magic ...

Seems to me, it's the management that may need the training!

However, there's one point I disagree on. In my experience, no matter what level of folk you are dealing with, that style of management NEVER works.

Perhaps he should jump in a time machine and come back in the 1890's; it's a least a century out of date.

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I have to agree

by rowanthorn In reply to nice idea, but your magic ...

Certification of any kind is not compliance.
One can be certified (as opposed to certifiable) and still insist in doing whatever they please.

Coding standards are there to make transistion of personnel easier and coding standards should be used not to hide code, but to make it understandable to others.

Best practices are those practices that work for you and your organization. You will have to work and find out what they are. There is no magic template that says if you do this ant and the other thing you will be competitive, your product will sell and doves from heaven will arrrive with glad tidings every day. Managing people is work and it is of the worse kind of incentive - your job is to ensure that others are happy. Really. The job is to ensure that your direct reports are understanding what the mission statemnet is, what the short and medium term objectives are, that they have the tools and environment to do the job and they are protected from the "ravages" of upper management. If you're a manager, you have to be willing to fight for your employess, otherwise there will be no respect and you will have a harder time of it. Trust is a fragile thing....

Ooops I've wandered off-topic slightly, but you get the idea....certification and offers of certification do not necessarily make for good incentives....


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Cert in leadership

by wrlang In reply to Certs are needed for some

You?re coming off as a commandant, not a project manager. Project managers get things done through consensus upon scope, timeline, and deliverables.

Your staff is saying, you can?t fire us all. Now they have a cause. You best discuss this with HR so they know what you?re trying to do. Your people may have already started the complaint process. The ones you fired most likely gave HR an earful.

Some managers can get people to do things by vision, persuasion, and logic.

This is the difference between a project manager and a leader of people.

That?s why it?s hard to understand why project management is such a fast track to managing people.

Standards typically don?t make anyone?s job ?easier? because they force people to change the way they do things. That?s ?hard? for most unless the benefits are overwhelming.

Try your own certification in leadership training.

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