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Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

Locked

I was pretty un-nerved by this demonstration I found at http://www.aclu.org/pizza

If this is where we are headed in the USA that is just plain scary. Take a look (make sure you have audio or else you won’t get the full effect of how absurd this is).

I’d like to see people’s thoughts on this after they watch it. I can’t believe this is what the goverment has in mind, or I should said I don’t want to believe it. This is just messed up.

Topic

Pizza Video

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

I had a friend send that to me about 3 years ago, so it has been drifting about the Internet for a bit.

And frankly what I saw in that video was private companies using our personal information against us.

NOt too mention the hideous had on the phone

In reply to Pizza Video

Obviously it was an example but if anyone actually started makign such comments regarding MY personal informationI would have them canned in no time.

Her comments and questions wer completely irrelevant to the job she was performing, her snide comments are grounds for instant dismissal, in this country anyway, no matter HOW much informatio she had in frint of her, she was still way out of line and it wouldn’t stick.

Another one?

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

This issue has been dragged abou tfor some time now.

Firstly, you just don’t deal with large impersonal companies that need your data on file for their ‘system’. Pay in cash, not credit card, use the credit for for emergencies, as it is usually originally intended.

I have called a Pizza place (when in Vancouver) that asks for the phone number so you are recalled in their database. You have the ability to refuse your information is entered OR simpy call a smaller pizza joint, foods usually better too, compared to the Pan-ofcrap-olis, or Dominosey (they always want to much info for their databse and their pizza doesn’t compete anyway.

But that’s just the tip of the iceberg and I know Pizza isn’t the issue here.

This is just another issue that allows us outsiders to look at the US as not really being FREE Whether living in England or Canada, I have never seen the US or it’s citizens as having more freedom than me. In fact, in most cases I see the government being in your face daily as something that would STRIP me of any feeling of freedom I actually did have.

I would take a communist, socialist, lefty looney country over one where the government dominates my daily life ANY day of the week. I don’t have the government to deal with, once a year they hear from me (if not every two or three depending on residual income)at tax time.

As of this time last year, the Canadian government had almost completely lost me until I decided to check in and tell them who I was and where I was living now, due to some medical issues with family where I needed to be reached and they didn’t have a record of me being here. I literally disappeared from the system, it was kinda cool actually!

So when I look at our US peers debating freedom and civil rights, constitutional laws being breached, the pres is on TV and news day in day out. Everyone is concerned about the government’s NEXT move stripping them of freedom and becoming a big brother in the USA.

Im Canada we check in, see you next year. Sure they have info on people, it is caled intelligence. It may be used for all kinds of things, but I have yet to notice any repression or control of my daily life due to it.

I live a free life, free of government concerns, free of political concerns. We have strong laws surrounding employee rights and that support the employee more than the corporation. It leaves one thing for me to focus on, MY LIFE.

I would consider THAT freedom.

This is an honest question….

In reply to Another one?

Don’t they tax the heck out of you up in Canada? I went to a burger joint restaurant in Toronto and the prices started out all right, but after they slammed that PST and GST on, the bill was pretty pricey…..

That pays for

In reply to This is an honest question….

Their “free” medical (as uninformed people in the US like to call it).

Also their roads and many other services.

It is high but at least the government isn’t burying the tax in the price. When you buy Smokes or Gas in the US, do you know how much of that purchase is tax? They do.

Gotta pay your taxes, and this way helps them get more from visitors to help pay for everything instead of just taking payroll taxes.

Not sure how payroll and property taxes work. I am sure OZ can let us know? Thanks.

(not a slam on Canada, it’s medical, or its tax system. More a slam on the dumb dumbies in the US that know and care nothing for what is up there.)

If it wasn’t for the cold…

In reply to That pays for

I’d have started singing “Oh Canada” as soon as the shrub got his second term… I can stand the cold… but hubby was born in Texas, and doesn’t deal well with anything colder than 70 degrees F.

Hot summers?

In reply to If it wasn’t for the cold…

You sure as hell got a lot more snow last winter than we did though! It really put me off the ‘great white south’ altogether, far too cold for us Canadians!

Fair enough

In reply to That pays for

ACtually you have a good point but really GST is just ONEminiscule tax when lookng at booze, smokes and gas,most are still buried in the price, that’s why these items are so much cheaper on an indian reservation (aka’Casino’ in modern terms).

The island is loaded with reservations (probably a reason we have government protected forests that the US owned logging companies fight for each year). I know plenty of people with status cards so booze and smokes are getting cheaper for me now.

As for property and income taxes, I believe your income taxes are a little lower on average. Propperty taxes, much as they are in the US are dependant on location of course. But again I believe them to be similiar if not lower in most cases for Canadians than Americans.

The US does tax it’s higher income earners (>$250,000.00/yr approx) at a higher rate than Canada does. The average individual income tax in the US is usually within 2 or 3% of Canadian taxes. Yet not exactly comparable because the tax brackets differ ever so slighlty.

A close freind of mine was stunned when he got his first paycheck from a VERY low paying job when he first moved Canada. “I’m moving us all back to Alabama!”

Now 9 years later, he wouldn’t consider ever moving back, despite his siblings being there.

He now makes about $19.00/he after 4 months with a large cartage & delivery company where he works in the warehouse sorting and loading trucks.

He has found he lives with much higher standards now, has a nice home, owns two cars etc. (His wife also has a good paying job)

He now says he could NEVER have had all this living in Alabama, perhaps due to a lack of opportunity more than taxation.

But even though, just liek every other Canadian, he bitches abou tax almost everytime it is added to a price, he finds it MUCH easier to achieve his goals here, he has moremoney and all three of his kids are covered by his medical plan provided at NO cost by his employer. His wife also has a similar plan at work, and they often decide who’s plan to use to get the best deal. One has better eyewear coverage (extended medical)than the other.

So where he had NO options when he lived in the US, he finds this is a land of oportunity for him and he is happy paying a little at the till knowing it isn’t already buried in the price.

The max US rate is approx 38% the max for Canada is 52% and it……….

In reply to Fair enough

kicks in at a lower amount. They can also deduct mortgage interest or at least they could up till a few years ago. I don’t know if that’s still true. Of course they still have all the hidden taxes like we do but their money is worth more than ours and seems to go further if you can avoid getting sick. Then hang on to your wallet because what they will do to you won’t be pretty. In fact you would normally expect to be kissed at least.

Dawg

Close

In reply to The max US rate is approx 38% the max for Canada is 52% and it……….

Canadian tax rates for Britsh Columbia are capped at 43.7 %

2005 Taxable Income Tax Rate

first $33,061 22.05%
over $33,061 up to $35,595 25.15%
over $35,595 up to $66,123 31.15%
over $66,123 up to $71,190 33.70%
over $71,190 up to $75,917 37.70%
over $75,917 up to $92,185 39.70%
over $92,185 up to $115,739 40.70%
over $115,739 over $113,804 43.70%

United States tax backets

First $7,300 10%
$7300 up to $29,699 15%
$29,700 up to $71,949 25%
$71,950 up to $150,149 28%
$150,150 up to $$326,450 33%
$326,450 up to ——– 35%

This is based on Single person tax rate and will also vary by state.

Also if you add in the TYPE of industry, rates will fluctuate again. There are simply too many personal variables for a fair comparisson.

But hey, I pay for the Province I live in and no matter how expensive it gets I can’t justify moving somewhere less appealing to save a few percent. It’s like having extra perks that come with paying taxes.

As for the dollar, I wouldn’t rely on its value.
If I wanted to go THAT route, I could move to England and REALLY earn a dollar worth spending, but the cost of living is nearly the same even with the added value of of the GBPS.

I gave up on keeping US income IN the US a year and a half ago. I just get checks sent here now, in USD and pay the added tax up here.

As for my British income, it STAYS in GB, for obvious reasons.

Well you didn’t lay PST on your burger

In reply to This is an honest question….

You paid GST, PST doesn’t apply.

They USED to charge 11% FST (federal sales tax) in everything and it was hidden into the price of the item. Much as most other countries still do. It is added by the manfacturer or distributor and doesn’t get seen by the end user.

Now they have dropped the 11% inclusive and added the GST as an additional charge instad of an inclusive/hidden tax.
I have two views on it really, with it being added on you are always doing the math when you buy something, bit of a pain in the butt but you get used to it and just overestimate your cost very quickly.

In England, everything is added into the price shown already, so you don’t really notice how much tax you are paying.

In Canada they have a GST rebate system, if you are an American visiting Canada you can reclaim those taxes in full. IF you are a Canadian you MAY be eligable for a GST rebate.

Your rebate is calculated basedon your income level though, if you make X amount each year you no longer get a GST rebate, which is a bit of a piss off because you buy more and pay mroe GST.

The best way out is to start SOME form of business and obtain a GST exemption number (just like any other tax number really) so you get a chunk back at tax time.

Computer purchase? GST rebate
Truck purchase? GST rebate

You also have to collect and pay the GST though.

SO it’s not bad, I found many prices, though not all as some suggested, actually dropped considerably since GST took over for FST.

I think the boggest livelihood killer Canada has seen recently has been NAFTA. This has had more effect on Canadian personal income and company revenues than ANY ax they could possibly lump on us.

But when it it comes down to it, at the end of the day, we get to live HERE, so it all comes around in the end.

Used to see all the time

In reply to Well you didn’t lay PST on your burger

when I was younger working at a tire repair center that Candians would come down into Michigan to get tires.

They would make us wash off the blue, and then roll them around in the dirt before putting them on.

This would save them a bundle on taxes (provided they didn’t get caught going back over the border with the new tires.)

That is bad when you save money driving 400 miles. Much like medical now.

Stuff USED to be cheaper there.

In reply to Used to see all the time

I lived 15 minutes form teh border at one time, I crossed to get all my gas, milk, cheese, my fiends and I even became regulars at a US bar because it was so much cheaper.
I also poerated two offices in the US, hired US scouts and considered moving the business south.

Then things changed.

It turned out it wasn’t worth going to the US for anything anymore, too much hassel, US dollar was too high etc.

WIth the drop in the US dollar, people are more inlcined to shop in the south again but wan’t do it nowdays since GWB and the Dark Side took over. Too much hassel at the border and most Canadian who once liked the US have really started to loathe it now.

The general concensus is to let your dollar drop and let our own economy grow. Buy Canadian has finally got some impact and meaning to it these days, but most people I speak to simply do not cross the border due to the hassels from US border guards. I couldn’t count HOW many times I’ve heard, ‘It’s just not worth the hassle to cross the border”.

BY the time you but something, pay the exchange, pay he US sales tax, pay the gas, waste hours crawling through the border (HOURS), it just isn’t worth it.

We get bombarded with flyers from US companies trying to get Canadian shoppers back, Bellis Fair was built on Canadian dollars and now starves from the absence. Meridian Volliage was built on Canadian dollars, now is a ghost town.

Peopl ejust can’t be bothered with it now, there’s not enough money saved anymore. GST and PST with the absence of FST pretty much evens the score.

Road tax?

In reply to Stuff USED to be cheaper there.

My understanding was there was a huge road tax on the purchase of all tires.

It was also in the early 90’s too.

Just wish the US dollar would go back up again. Man I love the pealers when I am getting almost a 2-1 gain on my money! The Landing Strip just north of the Toronto Airport ROCKED!!!

My first trip there was funny. I had to ask them what you did for tipping with the Loonies. Play Slots? Love them Candians….

Tipping Loonies?

In reply to Road tax?

Now they KNOW you’re an American. LOL!

Actually there is a dancer in Vancouver I used to hang otu with who could flip a coin three or four times on her boob, kinda like when you flip-roll a coin through the back of your fingers/knuckles.

It was a great trick because she always got Twoonies placed in the stage as soon as she got on it.

Then it would encourage drunk clowns to start handing her 5’s to one up the last guy, missing the entire point that you can’t roll a five dollar bill on your boob, at least she couldn’t at THAT time. 😀

Prescriptions..

In reply to Used to see all the time

My mom buys her prescriptions from Canada. I am just waiting for the U.S. government to shut that down. Seniors saving money? We can’t have that in this country.

You should see the savings, it’s insane how much U.S. pharmaceuticals make.

the Canadian government has been trying to shut it down

In reply to Prescriptions..

After the last Flu epidemic people came FLOCKING to Canada to get shots, I didn’t et a shot but never even got a sniffle either, I love the island, good clean air!

Did you know that they actually run a weekly bus/coach for US citizens to buy their medication in Canada?
It even stops at the racetrack before heading back to Bellingham.

So you DO support outsourcing?

In reply to Prescriptions..

Because this is what corporations do and we scream and cry that it is bad for the country.

The go overseas for tax breaks, or cheaper labor that will put in an honest days work to SAVE THEM MONEY.

When YOU do this, it is perfectly alright because it is YOU saving money instead of an evil corporation.

What about the local pharmacy that mom and pop have run for 30 years? (the only kind I go to)

YOU are putting THEM out of business because YOU are OUTSOURCING to the lowest bidder.

Please don’t rant that this is different, because the ONLY thing that is different is WHO benifits from this.

And please don’t imply it is about the government not wanting the seniors to save money. Maybe you are too close and emotion got more of your post than logic? I know, I get frustrated too. You have no idea how many times I write a post and delete it before posting and then come back later on and repost when I am calmer.

Yes, pharmacuetical companies make a lot of money on selling a set drug. How much did it cost to develope that drug? How about all the testing required by the FDA to make sure it is safe? Show about the R&D that got spent on the drugs that DIDN’T make it to market? More failures than successes.

There is a lot going on, and it is more than even Republicans wanting the elderly to have to eat dog food to make ends meet. The elderly are the SINGLE strongest voting force out there. NO ONE is going to do something that will hurt them as a whole. Remember there was just a perscription plan that just went through not long ago?

The party politics have always been about scaring the old to vote.

There are actually people so out of touch with reality they think the proposed SS reform will cut off existing seniors. All about scaring.

Wow, is that long enough?

Good luck to you and the best to your mother. (gotta love mom, wouldn’t be here without them!)

Reclaiming

In reply to Well you didn’t lay PST on your burger

Yes, I found out I could reclaim the taxes…about a month later. It would have been nice if they posted it at the border. But, as it said in an earlier post (maybe yours?), it’s nice to have the foreigners pay some of the taxes too.

Oh well, I consider it a donation to my northern neighbors…..

NO it wasn’t my post

In reply to Reclaiming

But thank you all the same, my taxes still didn’t change though.

It doesn’t matter what they DROP from the budget, it doesn’t matter WHERE the money is spent or saved, the savings aren’t passsed down to the tax level, just reallocated somewhere else.

THat’s why I don’t understand why everyone complains about wasting tax dollars, if they WEREN’T WASTED, you will STILL pay the exact same amount of tax, nobody’s gonna see a reduction in Taxes by changing medical, welfare etc. The money is just buried elsewhere.

One of the best Pizza joints in town…

In reply to Another one?

Doesn’t even have a debit machine. The take credit cards, but they do the old carbon copy thing.

I saw something like this….

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

I was googling one day and came across a script somewhat like this video. I’m sure the govt. already has something like this on every citizen.

I’m sure in time with all the crap they pass through the Senate and the House, they’ll get around to selling it to companies. Just look at the Patriot Act and as much as 9/11 broke my heart, I think it gave the govt. a new way to infringe on private citizens’ civil liberties.

Thank you, Patriot Act.

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

As far as I know… the government does not YET have any plans to make the information gathered by rights of the Patriot Act available to corporate America… I’m sure if the large corporations lobby for it enough though, and there’s money in it for somebody, this information CAN be had.

What concerns me more is that RIGHT NOW, the American government can check out what I google, from that, they can decide I’m a suspected terrorist, with THAT, they can come into my home, when I’m not there, without informing me, and take pictures of everything on my property, and even SEIZE my property WITHOUT EVER having to tell me they were there, or where my stuff is…

OR, they can decide that me, my husband, one of my children, one of my friends, is a terrorist, and under the PATRIOT ACT, can arrest them, hold them without bail, or a hearing, or even notifying family, and they can keep them in jail, INDEFINITELY!!!

THAT scares me a LOT more than the pizza dude.

Not if your citizen

In reply to Thank you, Patriot Act.

This doesn’t remove any of your current rights to fair trial and a lawyer.

If your NOT a US citizen, then you never had those “rights” in the first place because the Constitution provides for Citizens under that government.

If you do have a link that points at the wording in the Patriot Act that says otherwise I would be happy to go and read up on this.

Most of the bad press is just that, people running around MAKING UP stuff. My instructor last semester tried to claim a poor lady that was on the way to the store to buy groceries couldn’t because a collection agency used teh Patriot Act to take her last $120 for an unpaid medical bill. He didn’t like that I called him on this and he could provide NOTHING to back up his wild rantings.

Not saying yours is wild rantings first of all, just would like to be able to verify this first.

I was partly right :)

In reply to Not if your citizen

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11813&c=207

According to this summary (I’d have used something a little less “biased” than the ACLU if I could’ve found any OTHER info on it) it is only non-citizens that can be detained indefinitely, but it’s true that a citizen can have their home and property searched and seized on SUSPICION of terrorism, or of supporting terrorism.

How does Canada apporach this?

In reply to I was partly right :)

If there were a terrorist suspect in Canada, I have no idea where the government stands on this.

My big thing, when it comes to things like this, I am suspect for a few reasons.

One, a summary instead of the whole document with links to the offending places? Hmmmm.

The other thing is, if it was that bad it would be all over the place. The NY times or someone would have this, or CNN.

I know you don’t like Bush, your choice and it isn’t in me to judge on this.

Just got to pick and choose the sources for the poison that is being thrown around, and ACLU hasn’t stood for the comman American in a long time.

I understand

In reply to How does Canada apporach this?

And I’d MUCH rather have the entire 307 page document to sort through, than have a “summary” spoon-fed to me. Alas, 307 page documents penned by our illustrious government don’t often get posted to the internet.

I’d be interested to know myself how Canada and other parts of the world deal with such things.

Can have your home searced in Sweden too

In reply to I was partly right :)

In Sweden the recording industry can have your home and your workstation searched, with the aid of the local police. It is enough that they file a complaint, and then the police go to the victims home and collect all media and the PC.

It all starts with the IP-address, which is the key to all personal information.

So

In reply to Can have your home searced in Sweden too

You STILL get to live in Sweden! Metal land!!

I LOVE Sweden, the people are simply amazing, I also enjoy Germany, France (sorta)but the best metal has got to be Europe and Japan. The best fans are in South America. Europeans are VERY loyal to music and artists, in North America fans are just w.hores who jump from band to band when the flavour of the week is changed. It is also an industry dominated by labels here, DJ’s are paid to play, stores, radio stations, TV channels and Record companies are all owned by the same massive conglomerate and the industry is just a giant advertisement like one of those crappy magazines that is full of subscription cards and ads.

There is no Brave Words and Bloody Knuckles, there is no Kerrang, there is no NOTHING, just conglomerates that own and control the entire industry from the studio to the radio. That’s why music here is so lame and teenagers are buying Enrique Iglasias, Sum41 and Blink182 CD’s.

Mind you I did sue a Swedish band last year for copyright infringement. No big deal, they just had to change their name and pull music from a few stores, they were an indie band so not much depth was there anyway. They had done so twice before, so I gave them some tips on avoiding the issue in the future. They (both bands) all went out for drinks afterwards, they were realy cool, met with the band I represent that was fighting for the local copyright and ended up jamming and making friends with them. A MUCH much diferent world than NOrth America, it would sicken you to see who people act and how possesive and individual some people are IN North America. Most parts of Canada, save the major eastern cities, are OKAY, but when you get into the larger cities it is ridiculous.

No Credibility AT ALL

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

First, it starts very vague that the Bush Admin and current tech will make this happen. How about a direct statement of HOW and WHY this will happen. Who is pushing this through and on what bill? Who voted for it an when? Just a bunch of scare tactics.

Second, this is the same group that has defended NAMBLA’s RIGHT to post on their web site instructions on how to seduce little UNDER AGE boys.

They will defend ANY religion, accept for Christianity.

This is not an organization to protect us anymore. It is to push their agenda only.

Believe it

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

Maybe the video is a little far fetched right now, but if our government could do it, they would – especially the Bush Administration. I would definitely be making homemade pizza if I had a pizza place like this one!

It started with the Patriot Act. Now the government is pushing to get all medical records online. Do you know what happens to your medical records? I don’t, and honestly I never asked – but I’m going to start.

The minute we have the National ID card that has been proposed and bantered about for awhile, we will start to see our personal information in the hands of people that don’t need to know that information. Like the checkout clerk at a store. Oh, great. God Bless America!

I think the National ID card will come about because of our illegal immigration problems with Mexico. Our government will have to do something, and this will be their answer. Its similar to how the Patriot Act was brought about as a result of 9/11.

This is too scary a scenario, but its going to happen anyway to some degree because of terrorism. After 9/11 we lost our freedom. I don’t know if we can ever get it back. The only thing we can do is fight back and support legislation for strong privacy laws whatever way you can.

I used to just think about retiring one day to a warmer climate, now I think about retiring to another country. I’m not sure though, that we won’t all be in the same boat one day. Ah, globalization – don’t you just love it?

Wake up screaming

In reply to Believe it

Your medical records AND your credit ratings have been an open book long before the Patriot Act, or Bush. Don’t let your dislike of the man blind you to what is and has been going on for a long time.

Did you know when you apply for a job they check your crimial background, your credit rating and your medical records. Not, it isn’t legal but when has that stopped people in a position of power from doing whatever they want? Yes, When the Dems ran the country for so long there were many abuses going on. Do you actually think Enron STARTED after Bush got in office?

How many times have you had to put your SS number on an application? There are laws AGAINST it being used like that, but it still is and we follow along like good little sheep.

Don’t give “your” party a free pass just because you hate the “other” party. EVERYone in government has to be watched and held accountable, not just the ones you don’t like.

Tell me specificly what freedom YOU have lost since 9/11. Something you have PERSONALLY happen to YOU, not some rumor you heard around the water cooler or on CNN or the wild eyed half crazed rantings of Ted Kennedy.

My post wasn’t just about Bush

In reply to Wake up screaming

It was about government as a whole eroding our freedoms away because of 9/11 and not protecting our privacy to the point that one day my pizza place may know every personal detail of my life.

Its perfectly legal for an employer to do a criminal background check or full background check that would include credit information and lots of other information. They can also require you to take a physical and they have access to the results of that. But they don’t have free access to all of your medical history.

It surely isn’t about one party or one administration. Incidentally, I’m not a party loyalist like yourself. I choose the party that I think will do the best job at the time. Sometimes its democrat, sometimes republican.

Absolutely this has been going on for a long time. Both parties should take equal blame. After 9/11 though, there was a window of opportunity for the government to gain more control over its citizens citing terrorism as the reason. The Patriot Act gave government many new powers that could be used wisely or abused. Both have happened. Are we safer? I don’t think so. I think we citizens just have less freedom. I know if I was a terrorist I would enter the country through Mexico. Its apparently very easy, has been for a long time. Our government will not close the border and instead avoids the issue.

Government, as a whole, is not moving fast enough to protect our privacy. Even though I don’t give out my social security number except when absolutely necessary and haven’t for many years, it doesn’t matter because too many companies have it already.

How has this affected me personally? No longer can I just go through life as a happy sheep. When I go to public places I have to look around for suspicious people or suspicious packages. When I get on a plane, I need a photo ID and have to make sure I don’t have a lethal weapon with me like a pair of tweezers. I have to make sure my doctor’s office didn’t post the results of my cholesterol test online or they may fire me from work for being over the limit. I have to opt out of each and every one of my creditors privacy policies so they don’t sell my name to their affiliates. I have to do that as often as required or else my personal information ends up in Singapore or another exotic location.

I used to think of exotic locations as vacation spots. Now I’m waiting for the identity thieves to steal my records at Bank of America. Then they will be the one with the cholesterol problems.

Clarification?

In reply to My post wasn’t just about Bush

“It surely isn’t about one party or one administration. Incidentally, I’m not a party loyalist like yourself. I choose the party that I think will do the best job at the time. Sometimes its democrat, sometimes republican.”

Are you implying that like me your not, or unlike me your not?

If the later is implied, then I don’t think you have read my posts openly.

I have defended against what are purely emotional statements that are factually inacruate, true.

I don’t make excueses, not blindly follow under a political flag.

Many of my thoughts are based along a the political “right” because I was raised with a sence of self-respect and personal responsability that it seems many from the “left” run a little short on.

I don’t think the government should be stepping in our lives trying to solve every social woe you may come across.

I think people have an obligation to support themselves and their families.

Yes, an EMERGENCY safety net whould be in place to assist getting people on their feet. It is inexcuseable and irrisponsible to have ANYONE on welfare for more than two years, and continue to have more children while already on assistance.

I think people should buy locally to support local businesses that sell local products. Shopping at the Walmart is putting americans out of work and replacing them with lower waged jobs at the walmart.

And based on your post, (intended or not) is was stated that Bush was a big part of your problem. If this was the case, I was just pointing out that the problems have been going on for a while. I also asked you to provide information as to what you have seen to support this. That is NOT making excuses for anyone about anything. If you have information that is more than watercooler talk, I would LOVE to hear it. That is called having an open mind that I would listen to you.

Not trying to be arguemenative, just a discussion of point / counter point.

I await your counter to my counter.

Have a great weekend!

I’m implying that you are a party loyalist

In reply to Clarification?

“Many of my thoughts are based along a the political “right” because I was raised with a sence of self-respect and personal responsability that it seems many from the “left” run a little short on.”

Thats a right-winger statement for sure with no room for any other opinions. You may have me categorized as a left-winger because I don’t like where this country is headed. Left or right has nothing to do with self-respect or personal responsibility, its ok to be either one in my book. The truth is, I am both at times, as opposed to yourself, which is always right.

I want to see our government stepping up to the plate to protect the privacy and freedoms of its citizens. Fix the real problems in our country. They aren’t doing it. All there is is partisan infighting.

“I think people have an obligation to support themselves and their families.”

Well, me too. It ain’t gonna happen though. There are many truly needy people in this country. We need to weed out the greedy ones, not cut the support. We send millions of dollars of support to every other country in the world for needy people, why not here? Many are people that have paid their taxes every year, but are falling on hard times.

“I don’t think the government should be stepping in our lives trying to solve every social woe you may come across.”

I sort of agree, but I don’t consider privacy and freedom to be a social woe. Thats something they should step into, especially now that we are a global village.

I didn’t say Bush was a big part of my problem, I said “Maybe the video is a little far fetched right now, but if our government could do it, they would – especially the Bush Administration.” I think its a true statement. This president is far from moderate in anything he does, so this is more likely to happen under his leadership. I don’t think Clinton would have done it because he was more moderate (and a bit preoccupied).

I’m not blaming Bush for this. These problems did exist for years, but now we have the technical capability to go too far and have already. Clinton never addressed the problems, so Bush has to fix it, in a moderate way so left and right can meet in the middle. He doesn’t spend enough time or money addressing the problems in our country. Our personal freedoms are at risk.

I want to see our government, both parties, find a common ground and get back to work.

common ground

In reply to I’m implying that you are a party loyalist

First, “The truth is, I am both at times, as opposed to yourself, which is always right.”

Didn’t say I was “right”. I am CORRECT, not right. (I love that)

Oh ok, I will be almost serious for a minute or two. I have voted for Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans. I think the straight ticket voting option should be removed as it has no place in a positive political election.

Clinton, “the first black president” had the two terms to “fix” the things wrong with this country. He didn’t. He wouldn’t even go to Rwanda until it was over because it was an election year. Then he when down there, landed and made a quick speach and then hopped back on his plane and left. Never even left the airport. He was more concerned with doing what was “popular” than doing what he thought was the “correct” thing to do. Remember, if popular thought was all that matters, Blacks and women would still not be able to vote.

So Clinton isn’t Moderate, he is populist.

I do not listen to people like RUSH because he IS hard core right.

I will listen to both (sometimes even the third) side of an issue and then make a decision.

Had you actually READ my whole post you would have seen where I DO support people going through a hard time. If you lose a job, how long does that allow you to not get another? Job is gone? May have to move to where the jobs are or get into another field.

I believe ALL mothers should take the first two years off to raise their kids. They need mom there more than the second paycheck. If the father split then there is the ADC to help. After that two years the free ride should come to an end and (like the rest of us) you have to start earning your own keep. Money tight? I have been there. Raised a family of four working for $7.50 and anything else I could get on the side. So the sympathy train just doesn’t carry too much weight.

As for government, yes it should be protecting us and removing obsticals from our way so we can prosper. I don’t believe that the Republicans are planning on selling confidential information any more than the Democrats are.

Guess we just see things differently. As long as you have reasons for how you feel and vote it is acceptable to vote anyway you wish. It is the people that are too busy watching reality TV and couldn’t even tell you who the Vice-Precident is that votes Democrat because they are the party with the handouts that are a disgrace.

Well, I don’t think either of us will convert the other and yes from your previous posts you have shown yourself to be as far left as I am right.

Geez, I always thought I would convert you

In reply to common ground

Seriously though, its ok with me to see things differently. Sometimes when we have “common ground” its kinda scary.

You actually said some lefty kind of comments in your post. Theres hope for you yet!

You don’t listen to RUSH? Good. I don’t listen to Air America either. I do agree with you that mothers should be allowed 2 years off to raise their kids. Their kids need them.

PS, I think that Clinton disgraced the White House. He was a man in the right place at the right time because the economy was booming, but morally he was bankrupt.

Sometimes we can have common ground and even if we can’t, we can agree to disagree.

Teaching this old dog new tricks

In reply to common ground

just doesn’t work well as my soon to be ex-wife found out. (in case you missed my advice request post)

Just too set in my ways I guess.

I ask myself how someone can not see something so obvious, and then I step back and realize people are saying the same thing about me. (just with worse grammar and more colorful verbs, lol!)

Perception is a funny animal. I shake my head when friends relate old stories and I have to ask myself if I remember it differently because I was drunk or they were? (hard to keep it all straight after a while).

I have daily e-mail chats with my wacked out lefty aunt from New York (my fav Aunt) and we discuss all the latest issues. Really helps give me other views to concider as she comes in contact with many guests to our country in her line of work and travels a lot too. (yes, she is a raving loon by now! lol)

I have made her see many issues from ways she had never concidered, and I always get that balance of what the media is saying vs what real people are saying.

Best of luck!

Question, what was lefty that I said? I would be more careful in the future if I knew what it was.

Old dog, new tricks

In reply to common ground

I wasn’t able to respond to your last post because “Max message level has been reached.”

Here are my reasons why you are a lefty:

“Didn’t say I was “right”. I am CORRECT, not right. (I love that).”

Spoken like a true lefty.

“Oh ok, I will be almost serious for a minute or two. I have voted for Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans. I think the straight ticket voting option should be removed as it has no place in a positive political election.”

OMG!

“I will listen to both (sometimes even the third) side of an issue and then make a decision”

You’re not allowed to do that if you’re a right winger.

Just some thoughts from someone that knows nothing about you except what you post.

Almost scared the crap…

In reply to Check this out. (talk about technology and privacy rights!)

In Sweden

As far as I know, when they get hold of your IP-dress, they can go to your ISP.
If the ISP deems it reasonable, he will give them your full name and address, date of birth, phone number and so forth.

There is a law against this in Sweden, Personuppgiftslagen, and a special authority, Datainspektionen. I doubt if they can prevent it.

There is some work going on in the European Nations too.

ISP’s won’t give out your information without a subpeona in the US

In reply to Almost scared the crap…

I recently had to deal with this issue at work and found out that you can’t get any information from an ISP in the US unless you pursue it legally and get a subpeona. They won’t accept emails either requesting that information. Thats a definite good thing.

I’d like to think the law applies all of the time, but I doubt it too.

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