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Child custody, need to get some feed back

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by jdclyde

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[b]Warning, non-technical, and of a personal nature. If you do not approve of such on this board, save yourself the time right now and find a different topic.[/b]

For those not up to speed, recently divorced. Got twin boys, age 14, refered to as Thing One and Thing Two.

Custody was joint physical, week with me, week with her.

In the last month, Thing Two has decided to be with me full time other than every other weekend. Thing One kept on the normal rotation.

The problems start.

The Ex got fired from her job, and has a real crappy part time job that doesn't pay the bills, so she is sharing a rental house with her brother, who needed a place to stay during his divorce.

He is a recovering Alcoholic, so I was nervious from the start. He has recently come unwound, and held a knife to his neck in front of his 10 and 7 year old sons. (this of course concerns me) The Ex took him in and had him admitted to the nuthouse where he was for four days. Put him on meds and he is back. Sorry, but I don't think four days and a few pills can straighten someone out that quickly. This has be fear for the boys physical safety.

We have not been divorced even a year, and she is on boyfriend number four that she has dragged in front of the boys. (whatever). The bad thing is that three of these she has taken the boys with her and spent the night at two of these boyfriends places, and the third would come and stay at her place. (because he didn't work, laid off truck driver. yeah right) Am I just a fuddy duddy to think it is inapropreate for someone to take their their 14 year old boys with them when they go and spend the night at their lovers house? This concerns me because that is not a proper way to act in front of children.

The house she is in is a two bedroom shack. (yes, it is a real dump) The boys "room" is the landing at the top of the stairs. You walk through the middle of it to get to her brothers bedroom. The boys end up sleeping on the couch down stairs, and have not had a proper bedroom with their mother since last October. I have an issue with this as growing boys need some privacy and a place to go to get away.

She does not have a home phone, just a cell phone. She typically refuses to take my calls, regardless what I am calling about.

Tonight everything boiled over when I found she took the boys and spend the entire weekend at her new lovers place. Yes, she is in his room with the door closed.

When I picked up the boys to start my week, I informed her I was going to be calling the courts, and I fully expected to not be giving them back the following week. Yes, she got pissed, I drove away.

A few minutes later she called me on my cell, defending her right to take the boys anywhere she wants, and I told her we would find out if the courts agree with me or her, and how I don't think it appropreate to be having sex with your changing partners in front of your teenage boys.

I also told her I want to see a release from the doctors that her brother is clear to have unsupervised visitation of his boys. Until that happens, I would not allow my boys back into that house.

End the end, the EX agreed to just let the boys stay with me full time until things straighten out with her brother, and she agreed she would not take the boys for sleepovers to her lovers house. All provided that I don't go to court.

For now, I agreed. Not sure if I should have nor not. I really need to get caught up with my journal, so I am better prepared for when I end up having to end up in court over this.

I love my boys more than anything, but would not try to stop them from having a relationship with their mother.

I have also gone out with three people, but the boys have never meet any of them, and I never left them home on my week to have them to go out, unlike her.

The question is, am I our of line?
Is it wrong for me to complain about her taking the boys and spening the night at other guys houses?
Is it wrong for me to not trust someone that is suicidal around my boys?

Should I just mind my own business, or am I on the right track? I don't know what the courts would say about the boyfriend, but I am sure they would be in my corner about her brother and not having a bedroom.

It never is easy, is it?

48 replies

by deadly ernest

two more points.

Put this latest agreement into writting and get her to sign it. In general a verbal contract is as strong as the paper it's written on.

Talk to the her local child welfare people, and tell them about your concerns for both your sons, and the nephews. Focus on the brother, and the lack of privacy at their home. Don't speak about the overnight trips to the boy friends - let the boys or her bring them up when interviewed.

Oh, best to talk to them on the Monday when the boys are with her, so they can call around and see for themselves.

BTW The boys welfare and sanity are your business until they're of legal age. And yeah I've been through most of this, seperated when son was 6, he's now going on 19 and avoiding the ex like crazy.

Often Child Welfare can get things done without having to go the full court route.

The only thing I'd have done different, was not warn her about the court, let the summons do that.

by jdclyde

Never should have warned her about it.

I know for a fact that one of the beds is taken apart, and the other is covered with crap.

I don't think she will go for putting anything into writing, regardless of how badly she doesn't want me to go to court. The boys were there to witness this all, and know that they are now both staying with me until further notice.

I did state to them my concern about this being a verbal agreement because push comes to shove the court can pretty much only go by the agreed on custody that I am not following now. Got to really watch myself now, because I know she will be looking for any "gotcha" that she can get on me. Good thing I don't do anything! B-)

As for the monday deal, as the boys are not going back over there, there isn't anyway to do that. But they could see that there isn't a room setup for them.

Man, this is driving me nuts. The boys at least understand WHY I am doing this, and that it isn't just because I want them full time. They KNOW that I am just wanting the best for them, and she hasn't been doing it.

Thanks Ernest. I don't know how long things will stay this way, but if she does get out of line even once, I will do like you said and no warning, just file the papers.

by jaqui

call child welfare for your area and ask that a worker come to your place asap, making sure the boys are home, tell the worker what is happening and why.
let them make the call on if you are justified in your concerns, since the boys can confirm or deny anything right then and there.

Give the boys uncle some credit, my 12 y/o cousin was the first one to leave the bedroom after his dad chased them all into it with a gun, he found dad's brains all over the living room wall. the boys cousins didn't get that experience.

DE is right though, don't mention the sleepovers, that would just set the child welfare people off on the wrong tangent thinking you just want custody to mak the ex look bad.

by deadly ernest

and have them confirm the situation re bedrooms at the ex's. Also talk about the nephews and brother-in-law as a seperate issue, that you are alerting them too.

by gadgetgirl

You know I'm not going to go into the legal side; my speciality is UK not US legal!

Right, jd, start thinking logically.

1. By not getting anything in writing, YOU ARE LEAVING YOURSELF WIDE OPEN. She can take YOU to court, claiming you are keeping the boys contrary to the court order, which you are. She doesn't have to state/confirm/prove any verbal agreement; she can get away without even mentioning it - neither to the court or her lawyer. She can just go for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she will, just be aware you're putting YOURSELF at risk here. Even if it's just a handwritten piece of paper, signed by you, her and a witness, it'll stand up in court. You need this pretty badly. The court may ask the boys what happened, but as they're still classed as minors, what they say about either parent, whether good or bad, can and will be classed as containing bias; whichever way it goes. Just watch your back, jd. Please.

2. Leave out anything to do with her boytoys. Don't go there, even with a barge pole of extended length. What you're doing here, is applying your own set of morals not just to her, but to the court personnel, too. Not everyone will be able to see the amount of "badness" in this; some will even see it as showing the boys some "real life", believe me. Bear in mind that every human being has a different moral standard to every other human being.

Why am I suddenly thinking Bill/Monica at this point??!! :p

I agree with Deadly - it could be seen as causing trouble; the last thing you want to do is become known as a trouble maker, in case (God forbid) something else crawls out of the woodwork in the future.

As for your BIL, I think you'll have trouble finding out anything but what she tells you. A court order would be needed to get anything definitive in the first place. Just keep yourself and the boys out of harms way. Four days and some pills MAY work (remember where I work, here!) but I'd ask her if he has any follow-up appointments booked. If he hasn't....then keep well away. If this is the first time he's gone this far, he'll try again if there is no follow up. If this is something "usual" for him, he should be in some sort of counselling loop in the first place. Not that he can be forced to attend, unfortunately........

Over here, the lack of bedrooms would be an issue due to EU directives and would involve all sorts of people who would be on your side. Over there? sorry love, haven't a clue....... :D

Good luck, sweetie

GG

:x

by jdclyde

From what I have found out NOW (after the fact) he had threatened this a few times before he even went to jail the last time and was still living with his wife. (year ago?) He has also been going nuts because his wife is very actively dating. She had been letting him have the kids every weekend just so she could go out, and this has not helped his mental state. Midnight and he would have his boys call her to see where she is. real ugly stuff.

And as I mentioned, he has had a very bad problem with booze before this whole thing even started, so when his divorce started getting ugly it didn't take much to push things over the edge.

So no, this by no means is not the first time, and I really do think he is a threat to everyone around him.

I will call EX about getting something in writting before the week is up. It is my week now, and so I am a full week away from not being in compliance with the divorce custody terms.

Journal mode is going like crazy, and writting down any and everything I can think of.

Thanks luv! :x

by tonythetiger

The courts won't have much to say about the boyfriend, so I wouldn't even mention it in court. Stick to the safety and housing issues. Also what do the boys say? At 14, they are probably mature enough to have a say in where they want to live.

by jdclyde

Thing Two had already moved in with me full time before this even started.

Thing One has been hanging on to the week on/week off, but I am pretty sure it is more out of guilt and not wanting to hurt his mothers feelings more than anything else.

Yeah, everyone is saying the same thing about the boytoys. It drives me nuts to think people have a RIGHT to be as degenerate in front of their kids as they want. Land of the Brave, or land of the knave?

Ah, what do I know?

by jaqui

you do realise that running away from sexual expression doesn't help the boys either?

blatant sexual activity might not be great, but an open acknowledgement that sex is a natural part of life is good for them, and you.
then when you do get yourselfgg there you don't have to worry about them imagining what's happening behind closed doors ]:)

they'll know she has you tied up and is tormenting you. :D

by tonythetiger

My ex took our daughter [b]with her[/b] to meet men [/b]while we were still married![/b] (and before I knew my marriage was in trouble)

Now I know a reasonable person would think that that would have a potential of damaging a child's psyche (knowing mom was doing something wrong, having to keep it secret from dad), but not the judge. It was "Irrelevant".

I eventually did get my daughter, after a three year fight, but much damage was done. If I had to do it over again, first I wouldn't have tried so hard to save my marriage, and second, I would have tried to fight harder to get the custody settled faster.

by heml0ck

I really think that being on BF number for shows a trend towards irresponsible behaviour, and that is one of the factors that the courts look at when there is conflict regarding child custody.
Another thing to remember is that although your boys are 14 and probably the size of grown men, in the eyes of the law they are no different than 6 year olds, and will remain that way until at least age 16. The ex's behaviour would be completely inappropriate in front of six year olds, and so is also inappropriate in fron of 14's.
I don't know how the system works in the land of confusion, but here in Canada it is appropriate for family members to assume custody of minors when there is a perceived risk to their health or safety. To my mind, exposing them to someone who has a history of posing a risk to himself (attempted suicide) is justification for pulling the kids from that environment.
I would also suggest contacting a family lawyer. They will be able to tell you your rights and obligations, and also tell you how to go about securing full custody of your children.

best of luck mate, it's nasty to have to do it, but if the ex has abrogated her responsibilities, it is no longer her decision, and you have to act.

by tig2

It isn't wrong to want to see your children safe. From what I can see, that is all you are looking for here.

Thing Two has been with you full time for a little while, Thing One has chosen to be with his mother. Have you spoken with Thing One about what his wishes are? Does he understand that you are making this move for his protection? He is old enough to understand your concerns and value your choices- make sure you communicate the issues and what you see as resolution.

Children of your boys age should not be in a position where they are being taken to another home (not their own) so Mom can get her needs met. It is not a good emotional situation for them. Believe me when I tell you that kids in that age bracket are already having questions and issues about their own sexuality and that situation does not help. She needs to understand that their welfare comes first and if she can't understand that then some limits need to be set.

Similar thoughts where the brother is concerned. I can't speak to the in-patient programme he was in but handing him Anabuse and Prozac is not sufficient to deal with a the problem. He likely needs some longer term care. I understand that the living situation is the best she can do but your children shouldn't be exposed to that.

I assume that neither of you pays the other child support. Therefore this isn't a money issue.

The courts in my state would not permit the boyfriend situation nor the brother situation. Actually in this state, you could be prosecuted for NOT taking some action. You need to have a discussion with your local legal aide. It may be that you would be in trouble for NOT going back to court for an order revision. Should this be the case, she will likely be unhappy with you. But at that point, you will not have other options.

If that is the case, you MUST be talking to your boys about the situation. They need to understand that you are required by law to take additional action.

From my perspective, you still have a lot of anger about the whole situation. I know that you keep it under control but I think that you may need to look at some counseling. Given the situation, it may be a good idea to have the boys in that counseling as well. The three of you need to knit as a family unit and that may be difficult for the boys to get used to. When you were trading time it was a bit different. The boys may have some emotional issues that they need to discuss.

It is never easy. I think that you are trying to do the best you can by your children. I think that you are doing the right thing. Mom maybe needs some time to get her act together without the pressure of children for awhile.

You and the boys are in my prayers. Fourteen is a tough age and the conflict isn't making that easier.

by jdclyde

Turns out he has already gone through the gambit before this all melted down. AA meetings (not by choice) and Anger Management sessions (again, not by choice). I do not believe he is in any kind of program now, and was pretty much given a kick in the a$$ out the door with a pocket of pills. Mental health has not exactly been a priority spending in the area for some time now.

I am going to have to get some official legal advice it seems, because that has been a pretty concistant theme I am getting here.

I was trying to not be the one to make her life any harder than it is because then I am the bad guy and I don't want to ever generate "poor mom" feelings.

Anger, that she would subject the boys to this behavior. I have never done anything to hinder her dating. Matter of fact I WANT her to be actively dating because it keeps her focus on that instead the the boys, so I end up getting extra days. At 14, I know my time with them is very limited until they would rather be off with their friends and so i am not looking to waste that time dating. worry about that when "empty nest" sets in. :D

I suppose it wouldn't be a bad Idea to check into the counciling though. Get them each some one-on-one time so they can open up without peer preasure.

Thanks Tig. For the advice and the prayers. Will take all I can get.

by tig2

I understand that you don't want to end up the bad guy. But I also know that legal advice in this case is a requirement. To both your boys and to her- doing this the legal way protects EVERYONE. I realise that she may perceive it as additional hassle but it may end up protecting her. And I would consistantly address it that way.

The BIL issue is obviously a key issue. I would take the stand with her that you understand that this is what she can do right now but that it is not an acceptable environment for the boys. By modifying the current order, you aren't trying to stop her from being a parent, simply that the courts have to be notified about an agreed on change. It protects her from being accused of endangering their welfare. And inevitably, she would be. He is obviously not stable.

It will help if you explain the legal ramifications to the boys. It will put an end to any "poor Mom" thoughts and also give them a different perspective. You are protecting her by doing things in a legal manner.

I think given the change, counselling is the right direction. I understand that the boys don't see it in you and I know that you manage your feelings well. But you're right- counselling would give them both a safe place to talk about their feelings independantly of one another and also to share them with you. And you may learn new ways to stay in relationship with both boys as they learn to become adults. I think you will find it an enriching experience.

Don't talk about it much but I have "been there, done that". My ex husband's son was 9 when we married. Would take a week to tell the whole story. Suffice to say that I understand what you are going through.

by maecuff

I would definitely have a problem with my kids being around someone who is suicidal. I think it's sad and the guy obviously needs help, but that doesn't mean I'd let my kid live with him.

Update that journal!!! You may need the back up. By agreeing to let them stay with you while 'things straighten out' she has made an admission that her place is not suitable for your children.

I wouldn't get too upset about the boyfriends. It's not the best environment for your kids, but they'll be okay. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose all respect for their mother. At this point, they're 14 years old. There is still a lot of parenting to do, but they already are who they are.

You're doing the right thing, absolutely the right thing.

by jdclyde

Thing Two had stated a few MONTHS ago to grandma that he has no respect for his mother, point blank.

Thing One is of a more gentle heart and doesn't speak poorly of anyone but his brother.... :0

I keep telling myself that in a few more years when she no longer has parental control over the boys, I will be able to better completely ignore her and how she is living her life. Might just be fooling myself, but at least it is a comforting thought for now.... :|

Thanks Mae, hearing approval from you always means a lot to me. :x

She did get pissed when I asked if she is sleeping around in front of the boys, does that mean she is no longer concerned if the boys are checking out internet porn or not? :0 That was a big concern of hers about six months ago (after her computer died from the malware! :^0 ). Funny, she never did answer that. go figure. :| (not "haha" funny either)

by gadgetgirl

but it takes time. Once the offspring "click" as to why the divorce has happened in the first place it is usually a telling time. They tend to go over everything, and come to their own conclusions. Once they've done that, you'll be able to switch off (well, that happened for me, anyways)

Personally, I've succeeded in avoiding my ex for the most part, having seen him twice in four years, and only one call in the five years before that (bear in mind daughter was 14 when we split, so I know the age you're coming from, here)

Last time I saw him was last Xmas (damn, I must arrange to do more Xmas shopping next year....! :p ) and quite honestly, I couldn't understand what I'd ever seen in him in the first place.......

GG

Clarity: We both changed, him for bad, me for good. :D well, ]:)

by shep5_7

First I am sorry you have to go thru this. You are not by yourself. So I will keep you in my prayers!!

I will say that you do have it bad. I am going thru a similiar situation. I thought I was going to be able to avoid the courts but low and behold it is inevitable. I agreed with my ex not to go to court as long as she doesn?t keep my daughter away from me, but now I have to file for visitation b.c. she doesn't understand that I have rights. She thinks her parents have more rights than I do.
Anyway my point is this, keep a paper trail; record your conversations (rather it is by hand or equipment). I think you are on the right track but start saving money now and don't let her know everything you are doing. Sometimes court documents and the best way to keep peace. I would love to have a communicative relationship with my ex b.c. the child needs to see that the parents can get a long. There are enough problems that they face outside of the home. The home needs to be the place of refuge. Ok feel like I am rambling so I am going to stop there b.c. this is a touchy subject to me and I can talk about it for days.
Anyway my point is this, keep a paper trail, record your conversations (rather it be by hand or equipment). I think you are on the right track but start saving money now and don't let her know everything you are doing. Sometimes court documents and the best way to keep peace. I would love to have a communicative relationship with my ex b.c. the child needs to see that the parents can get a long. There are enough problems that they face outside of the home. The home needs to be the place of refuge. Ok feel like i am rambling so I am going to stop there b.c. this is a touchy subject to me and I can talk about it for days.

by jdclyde

I get it, paper trail, get it official with the courts.

On most issues we have been able to be civil, but when we start talking a real physical threat to their lives I couldn't take it anymore.

Good luck with your daughter. Hope everything works out.

by itgirli

Take her to court. Make it so the boys have supervised visits with her until she can prove herself to the court that she is a fit parent, which I doubt will ever happen. I have seen this happen many times. Even with my own parents. My dad didn't ever have me meet his girlfriends unless he planned to marry them (and he did marry them)(several times. he's on wife 4). My mother always brought home the flavor of the month. Some hung around for a couple years, some were around for a few months. Honestly, at the age of your boys, it didn't bother me at all. I never had a relationship with either of my parents, so maybe that's why I never cared. It can't be good for your boys though, and they she how she is acting. You don't have to worry about that. Your boys are smart enough to see what's going on. Taking them away from her could only SAVE what little respect they may have left for her.
As far as the suicidal ex-brother-in-law living in a place with her, the boys should not be subjected to that. And if the boys are staying with her, they need to have a room for themselves. If the court found out they didn't have a bedroom to themselves, she wouldn't be allowed to see them. Or at least not in this state, I'm unfamiliar with the laws there.
I'd take her to court, she's only hurting the boys at this point, and I don't think she cares.

by jdclyde

This all goes back to something she said during the divorce when I asked for full time custody with no obligations on her part and very liberal visitation. Her answer was "No, because that is giving your kids away". No "good" mom would GIVE their kids away, right?

I really think she has been looking for an out. A way she could pass off the boys without looking like she doesn't want them. She knows that she can't afford to take care of them, even part time. Hell, she can't take care of herself. Pride was the only thing keeping her chomping at the bit, and now that I have "taken them until things straighten out", she is off the hook and can start working to get her life in order. I think she is making about $700 a month after taxes right now, with $500 of that going to her blazer.

I think she cares, but maybe she was TRYING to push me to the point to take action. Why else would she finally tell me that her brother is suicidal, or at least has been threatening it for OVER A YEAR? And after I told her in no uncertain terms my objections to her sleep-overs, so she makes a point to spend the whole weekend with Mr Bill?

She is finally off the hook, because I am sure it has been making her sick not being able to provide for the boys when she has them.

Maybe I just give her too much credit, and she just wants to be free to spend all her time on her back? :0

I think for everyones sake, I will assume the first instead of the second. As long as the boys are out of that situation, I am not concerned what she does, and actually shacking up full time with this guy would be to her advantate. For the wedding he took them to this weekend, HE took the boys out and bought them dress cloths to wear because she didn't have anything nice for them.

Good to see you out Girli. Hope things are picking up for you? :x

by jdclyde

Hope your girl is doing fine now? I know even in the best of times this isn't easy on them, but to get put right in the middle like that.

What the he11 are some people thinking? X-(

When we went in for our divorce, her affair never came up and as far as the judge knew it was me divorcing her because I am the one that ended up filing to give her the divorce she wanted. My laywer told me that right up front that the courts will not hold her transgressions against me as something against the boys.

I am so sorry for what you went through. That is so much worst than I was put through (Accept for the ONE time that I found out she brought her "Soulmate" over to MY house while I was at work, YEARS before I even knew about him or that our marriage was in trouble. The boys told me, years later.)

That kind of betrayal kills a part of the soul.

by tonythetiger

Not what I had envisioned years ago, but fine.

I did get a beautiful granddaughter out of the deal. Babies have a way of making almost anything OK :)

by jdclyde

And for now I am trying to keep sex as more than some dogs humping. They have after they are married to find that out. :0

Respect for yourself and the people around you. Sex can be respectful if you crack the whip hard enough? ;\

It isn't the sex that I am trying to stop. It is partner hopping right in front of the boys faces, and doggie humping guy after guy with the boys in the next room. It doesn't have to be in front of them like this.

by jdclyde

With her living in different cities, there will one day (soon I hope) that she is just not a factor anymore. I don't want to talk to her on the phone, I don't want to see her in public, I dont want to be her friend or buddy, I don't want to have any contact with her. To truly get the break, nice and clean. She go her way and I go mine, and besides the handing off of the boys, there is no place for her in my life.

I am fairly sure I am past hating her, but that doesn't mean I ever want to talk to her again.

by maecuff

to get past the 'hating' part. For YOUR sake..not hers. Too many times, I've seen bitterness just destroy the quality of life for people.

My husband has absolutely NOTHING to do with his ex. He doesn't hate her, but he doesn't want anything to do with her either. We saw her when my husband's oldest daughter got married, and to his credit, he was civil. When the baby gets here, we will plan our trip around hers. For two reasons..first, my husband doesn't want to see her if it can be avoided, secondly, I don't want to share MY 'baby time'. I want her all to myself when we visit. 6 weeks to go...

by jdclyde

I don't want to waste my time hating someone. I have better things to do with my time, and better uses for what few emotions I do have. Dwelling on how she did me wrong will not improve anything, so it is a waste of resources.

I can do civil. But that doesn't mean I plan on running into her to BE civil.

Like your plans, for the events that can be planned, people can be avoided, thus eliminated.

I fully understand events like weddings, graduations and babies, she will be there. I sure am glad that the father of the bride picks up most of the tab for a wedding, right? ;\ What is the father of the groom responsible for? Showing up and staying sober? :D

Of course I would have to hire an 18 year old stripper to be my date, just to make the EX look old! B-) (if not with someone at the time) ~sigh~ no, it would be funny, but she isn't worth the effort. If I hire a stipper for a night, she will NOT be walking around all night with a dress on, that is for sure! ]:)

Enjoy babytime and make sure LOTS OF PICS! Man they change so much in the first few weeks. Will you have to contend with "baby shower"?

by jdclyde

so I have a lot to look into.

And making the calls to get the courts in on this after all seems to be the general consensis in order to both protect the boys AND myself.

It sucks in this time of working for the boys safety and well-being that I also have to be taking time to worry about CYA. X-(

by maecuff

quit being a whiny a$$ t!tty baby. Of course you have to worry about the CYA part.. That's life. And if you spend any time feeling sorry for yourself over THAT, I shall be forced to beat you about the head and shoulders..

by gadgetgirl

can I watch??

:D

:p

GG

]:)

Edit: Second thoughts - you beating him up and me watching would make for a happy jd....

Naaaaaaah. Forget I said anything......

GG

by jdclyde

to think about myself before others. Just not used to it, is all.

I have bought myself one pair of shoes in the last two years and that is only because the pair I was wearing fell into pieces. On the other side of the coin, the boys are each on their 10th pair in just over a year because they are growing so fast. Some got worn out, some out grown.

by tink!

(no time to read all the replies so this may be redundant)

I think you are in the right. Especially with the brother-in-law. Quite frankly even on meds people like that are hard to trust since if they skip their meds for even a short period, their behavior becomes extremely unpredictable. My brother is having similar problems but refuses to take meds, insisting that he is ok. But his behavior says otherwise. He left his wife, moved to the opposite coast, doesn't pay child support, left his child and has never even asked to speak with her or have photos of her. This is after he physically attacked his soon-to-be ex and threatened his daughter. He did a voluntary stint in a hospital for a few days and went on meds. But he discharged himeself and then went off the meds. That's the biggest thing about meds...they may be ok on them, but if they decide they don't need them (and many do) they'll stop...and you won't know until something happens.

The sleepovers is a personal comfort choice I think. I believe that if she has formed a long-term relationship with another man than she could possibly take the boys with for overnights. But if this is just short-term, and there are going to be more short-term relationships, than NO, the boys don't belong on overnight trips with her. It gives the wrong example of a relationship

by jdclyde

Remember, Mr Bill is number four in less than a year, so she is moving fast and furious.

First one was more of an admirer as far as I could tell. She was hiding this from me at the time.

Second one "started to drink a lot" (someone in their fourties does not just "start", they were just hiding it for a while till they felt comfortable then they quit pretending).

Third was a "Laid off truck driver", which if you ask any of the truckers, the only truckers not working either don't WANT to work or are unhireable.

The fourth has been with her for just over two months, and in the last three weeks, sleeping over there has become more and more steady. The first few it seemed were to get away from her brother who was having anger issues, so she had already recognized a problem but refused to address it. I knew nothing about this at this point and later found out she asked the boys to not tell me about their uncle. (yes, add that to my list of complaints. Identifying a threat and then hiding it from me.)

So these have all been relatively short term.

As for the BIL, I do not trust the meds to straighten him out and I don't trust him to stay on them.

Sorry to hear about your Brother. Hard to watch someone you care about self destruct. Hope he can turn it around.

by tink!

3 months can turn out to be long term [i](in my case eloping after 3 months turned into 12 years of marriage.)[/i] But based on her behavior you described, that [b]definitely isn't [/b]long-term. And I think you are right to remove your boys from that exposure.

Tink

by gadgetgirl

oh, the numerous replies I could put to that.....!

Ok, then, I will.

Shall I bring the one out of the Ladies loo in here that you had Neil install??

]:)

GG

by tonythetiger

Short version. Ex was really manipulative with our daughter. This girl has it all... Looks and brains (she took the SAT (not PSAT) in the seventh grade and scored better than 60% of high-school juniors who took the test). Unfortunately, her mother lured her away with the promise of no rules and she got in with a bad crowd. When I finally got her back, she was a mess. She quit school and was 'in love' with this thief/druggie.

I did get her to take her GED and she aced it (and BEFORE she would have graduated at that). But the other thing was a lot tougher. Her mother ended up going behind my back and signing for them to get married. I could have had it annulled, but she was just 6 months shy of 18 at that point. Nine months later, Katelyn was born.

That was almost 2 years ago. My vision would have had her starting her second year of college about now, not learning the same way I did... the school of hard knocks. She's a tough cookie, and working toward the future, and that's the important thing.

You can call it healing I guess. But it's more like just learning the difference between things you can do something about, those you can't, and the hardest... those you shouldn't.

by dmambo

Sorry, but I haven't read any of the other posts yet, so maybe this is all repeat.

I think that this chick's life is in a massive downward spiral and that you should go to court to get full-time custody. Boom, that's it. Let her have some time with them later when she can keep her own life in order.

Ok, now I'll calm down a little and think about it a bit more...In some ways, it seems to me if the Ex was looking at this rationally, she would be asking you to take the Things for a while until she gets her head above water. If I were in her place, I'd try to cooperate with you just to build a some good will for the future. She doesn't have the luxury of looking at this from a detatched perspective, though. She's got all sorts of pride wrapped up in it and that's clouding her judgement. You've said before that she doesn't want to be viewed as the type of mom who gives up her kids. Well, now that attitude is affecting the kids. JD, do what you have to do. Contact child protective services (or whatever the organization is in Mich.) and fink her out. If she's running with losers, then chances are that they're not setting a good example for the boys. What do you want them observing?

Whatever you decide, discuss it with the boys and listen to what they have to say. They will have some opinions that will impact your decisions. And just talking it out might make them realize that mom needs a little space right now and that might help steer them your way. Good luck, bro, and thanks for keeping the kids as the highest priority. I admire you for that. (In a healthy, manly way, of course :) )

by dmambo

And as I expected, I didn't really add anything new.

I guess that tells you something, right?

We'd all be better off if we lived alone like hermits, eating bugs and sleeping in caves. Ahh, the good old days 250,000 years ago.
(That's 4000 in Creationist years)

by maecuff

it just kills you, doesn't it?

My son (19) is one of the most intelligent/insightful/quick witted people I know. What happened to him is entirely MY fault, though. He hates the town we live in, and just after his 17th birthday, he asked to stay in Cincinnati with my mother (near his friends/different school). I had my doubts, but I let him go. He ended up in trouble, drugs, dropped out of high school, etc.

Like your daughter, he aced the GED, no studying or anything, just took the test and passed it with flying colors. He SHOULD be in college now. That is how I envisioned his life. That is what I wanted for him. Instead, he's working for $7.25 an hour in a restaurant. Not that I'm complaining. At least he's working.

On the good side? He cut ties with all his druggie friends. And this was HIS decision. Not that he would have let me make that decision for him, he is extremely strong- willed. The job may not be much now, but he seems to be taking quite a bit of pride in his work and has expressed a desire to take a manager position. He also approached me about getting into tech school. So..there is still hope.

No matter what, I am proud of him. I'm impressed that he's made the choices he has to turn his life around. I just wish he could have taken an easier route. And one that wouldn't scare the living sh*t out of me every single day.

by tonythetiger

It used to... but like I said, she's a tough cookie and has a good head on her shoulders. I just had to realize that it wasn't [b]my[/b] head.

She likes what she's doing, and the money's better than I would have thought (She commonly makes $150 a night in tips and sometimes over $250). The son-in-law is starting to finally grow up, and though we're a long way from being friends, I'll tolerate him as long as he treats my child and grandchild well.

by jdclyde

I think we might still have had our tail 250,000 years ago, so we would end up stepping on each others tails! :0

As for if you added something new or not, the more people that step up and say the same thing, the more likely it is accurate.

Thanks again.

by absolutely

You're much more likely to get some of your feed back soon. If they're all older than a year, you might have to wait several years for any of them to vomit.

by sxjulie

More F'd up than possible if you are calling them things. These kids will be headed to jail in the future if this fighting and mess is going on all around them. CPS must be involved. Take her to court as their dad you must protect your kids. YOUR SIXTH SENSE IS ALWAYS RIGHT. They need couseling asap. Mom needs to lose custody. Mom and you need to go to counseling. good luck

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